>> my neighbor has none of the characteristics of a superman. he is a man who lived normally before the war and set himself no goal but to live normally after it. he succeeded because he had patience. he had faith in himself, and he knew it could be done. it took a little while. but he got there. >> ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> coming up next, project one way -- project runway cohost discussed first ladies fashion choices in how they represented

styles of the times in which they lived as well as their personal style. joining us is the curator of the first ladies collection at the national museum of american history. the national archives posted this 90 minute event. [applause] >> hello, everyone. thank you for being here. were going to have a rousing evening, i hope. certainly an interesting one and an interesting discussion. the whole topic of what the first lady wears, we know is a frequent topic of discussion. we have lisa here who wrote the ladies the first collection at the smithsonian. i would speculate you run most visited department at the smithsonian. >> we are told it is the most visited and it's one of the

oldest, 100 years old this year. >> how fantastic. that is wonderful. one task all of our panelists why do we care so much about what the first lady wears? what is the legacy? what is the message that the first ladies have? >> ica symbolic figure. she is in a way a little bit like the queen of america. we look at her to see what kind of female image she is conveying. >> and i think we also see her as the mother of our country for the time that she's in office. and i think that people definitely want to emulate her and seek guidance from how she is conducting herself and projecting herself to the world. >> and i want to remind everyone, we're going to have a question and answer session at the end of this. so if you have questions of any of these and you think you might forget, write them down. and we have dolley madison who

presided over the first inaugural ball in 1809. what did we think about dolley madison and the impact that she had? [laughter] it's taking us back. >> way back. >> way back. >> dolley madison was criticized, thought that she was too fancy and too much into fashion and too aristocratic, not democratic enough. >> not democratic enough. but you could come to dolley madison's parties as long as you were appropriately dressed, so very democratic. >> but they did that at versailles. [laughter] >> when you think that dolley grew up as a quaker, when she married james madison, she broke from the background of a woman who was demurely dressed, suddenly had this ability to really just blazon out in amazing clothes. she's very fond of reds and yellows and turbines. maybe a nod to that quaker cap. but she's able to fulfill this

dazzling vision of what you have to wonder if this is what she longed to look like as a little girl. >> yeah. >> and there are some of dolley madison's dazzling red. so lisa, when one had to be appropriately dressed to visit the white house, what did that mean at that time? >> a lot of controversy was whether you could wear boots, boots or shoes. if you're properly shod, jacketed, can present a respectable appearance, you just need an introduction to go to the madison's white house. if you know somebody or you have a card of introduction, you can be admitted to mrs. madison's crushes. they literally are called squeezes or crushes. and people crowd into her drawing room. she really begins political entertaining. >> do we believe there's anything significant about the construction of clothing from this era that contributes to the overall impact that it has and

the effect that it has on us either emotionally or psychologically? >> it's called the empire style because it's very high-waisted. it's worn essentially without a corset. more like a kind of proto brassiere. so it's completely different than 18th century aristocratic dress with the coneshaped corset and big hoops. it's very body conscious, kind of liberating. at the time a lot of people in america and in france thought of it as being, you know, a republican style, not an aristocratic style. it evoked the idea of ancient greece and rome. >> and compared to what preceded it, was almost monastic. >> not always. you could have the nice plain white ones, but they had some glamorous ones. if you have a red empire low-cut gown, a wonderful turbine and jewelry and everything, you could look fantastic. she was lucky for a quaker that she got [laughter] any kind of fantastic fashion. >> i'm amazed there was so much bosom exposed at the time,

especially for a quaker and for a first lady. but that was the style. >> that was definitely the style. [laughter] so this is an example of a gown that mrs. madison would have worn in her youth. this goes back to what you were describing, valerie. >> except much plainer. the quaker look was gray and non-color. it stood for kind of standout of society and all of its competition, that fashion was frivolous and external. a lot of that goes through american history, not just the quakers, the whole puritan sense that fashion is unnecessary and elitist. so to be a quaker was to make that point very clearly. >> dolley was impoverished later in life. she wears clothes again and

again. she makes them. this is one of the collections that had been remade over time either by dolley herself or by a lot of dresses were made. it was popular to wear great grandmama's clothing, say to a fancy dress party or as a remembrance. so a lot of our clothes say the skirt will have been styled to a slightly different silhouette or the bodice changed slightly. >> we like recycling. >> before their time. >> exactly. here we have julia tyler. she was, indeed a great beauty. she only held the role for eight months. she was often seen wearing white satin. and what are our thoughts about

julia tyler and what significance could she have had? >> in eight months not much. >> wasn't she one of the youngest first ladies as well? >> she was. she was younger than some of his children. and there was sort of a whirlwind romance. she was very conscious of herself. she styled herself as the rose of long island and had had to be taken off to europe by her family because she supposedly posed for an advertisement which was scandalous at the time. but she came back with a taste for europeans. so part of this look, this white satin, is that she wanted to sit on a dais and have people presented to her as if at court. so she had a reasonable impact on white house entertaining in a short amount of time. it might not have been the impact she wanted. the white house changes from sort of a more egalitarian or republican to a much more high style and exclusive. she was one of the exclusives that swung back after they left.

>> lisa, how do you verify or corroborate these legends and tales? is it difficult? >> some of them are difficult. it's requested, can you find a letter? is there correspondence, a diary? dolley's red dress, the story is it was made out of the red velvet drapes that she saved from the burning of the white house. that's a wonderful story, but it's not true. it should be true. >> it's not true? too bad. it's a great story. >> the historical museum owns the dress. and the d.a.r. in d.c. has a piece of the curtain, what is supposed to be the red velvet curtain. for an exhibition at the national portrait gallery the two pieces met. because we had just gotten a really wonderful new microscope in the conservation lab, they came to our lab and they both met under microscope to see if we could prove that this was the same fabric. >> did the fabric survive? >> it's not the same fabric.

if this was curtain, the dress was not made of this curtain. what we don't know is if that was really curtain. so now we have a second mystery to solve. was that piece that they have really a piece of the red velvet curtain? >> another letter to be found somewhere. >> somewhere. >> we'll go back to julia tyler. and on to sarah polk. we are now up to 1845 to 1849. how is dressing in this particular time different? how has it evolved? >> this is what you think of as an early victorian style. it's very much more conventionally feminine. you're back to the corset, back to a full skirt over petticoats. although she's wearing a dark dress, you do see much more distinction between men in black suits and women in sort of lighter and more delicate colors and fabrics.

so you get real gender distinction at this period. part of the idea of women should have their domestic role at home and be really sort of different creatures than men. >> and what about the relationship between fashion in america and europe? were we a nation of borrowers then? >> yes. absolutely. paris was already and had been for more than 100 years the center of women's fashion. and american fashion magazines had images which were based on those from french fashion magazines. but at the same time, you have this drumbeat of complaints of how can the daughters of puritan ancestors wear clothing designed in the wicked city of paris. so then you have american magazines and dressmakers saying they're going to americanize the fashion. and that often means making them a little bit simpler or more

modest or it could just be boiler plate, could be the similar dress. >> so were most of these clothes actually made here? >> most would be made here. >> they were not brought over from europe. prohibitively expensive? >> if you were wealthy. but most things were made here. you might have fabric shipped over and have dressmakers make it here >> i didn't realize, too, that victorian fashion wanted to make women look smaller. so a lot of the proportions were larger to make women look more petite. i thought that was interesting. >> for waist and extremities, the hands and feet should be little. but the hips full, bosom full. shoulders full. you wanted to have plump, voluptuous shoulders and a big, big butt. [laughter] by the 's, one english writer said, "no man would stay long with a woman whose skinny buttocks he could hold in the palm of one hand." [laughter] >> sounds like today. [laughter]

>> and this gown says all of that. it really does. >> can you imagine kim kardashian in that? >> i prefer not to. [laughter] >> with the first wonder bra pushing it up and up. >> and what about accessories? what are these? [laughter] >> that's really cool. that says tunisian silk, right? i think that's so amazing. the striped one? >> it is. yes. with a tassel. >> i love that. i want that. >> sarah polk purchased these in paris. and did this become popular? were people suddenly wearing turbines everywhere? >> they went in and out. they came back in the 's. >> was this before hairdressers were popular?

[laughter] i ask with some sincerity. >> it's supposed to be a glamorous exotic look. >> it is exotic. >> and here we have harriet lane. she was the niece of james buchanan. is that correct? >> the niece. she was considered to be an absolute beauty, elegant member of the white house. she actually entertained the prince of wales and rather scandalously had gentlemen giving her presents and her uncle had to she used to hide things because she knew her uncle wouldn't let her accept some of the jewelry and other things that gentlemen were trying to give her. >> and as the niece of the president, was she considered a first lady in standing? >> she was the first lady, served as first lady and is one of the first ladies to be called first lady. >> that's interesting. >> by the press, in magazines.

dolley madison is referred to as the first lady of our land in a eulogy but this is the first lady in media, really. and she did. unmarried his entire life, she lived with him most of their life and served as hostesses and therefore became first lady. >> do you think they called upon the term first lady, the press, because it was awkward and she's not a wife and she's not a consort? >> i like consort. she would have enjoyed that. [laughter] i think partly it's too it's to have something to call you, since you don't have a title. martha washington was lady washington, but lady buchanan sounds odd. it's also to promote the idea that this is the first lady in the land, the one setting fashion and who you are following; the consort, really, of the president. so in diplomatic visits, for instance, this is the woman entertaining the prince of

wales. you need something to give her a little more stature than miss buchanan. >> and seems to have had incredible style. >> i love this dress. it drove the photographers crazy. this is a worth gown. it is the deepest midnight blue i've ever seen velvet; the white satin and then the silver. and it did make our photographers insane to try and light and shoot. it is one of my favorite pieces in the collection. i would try it on if you secretly try them on. this would be the piece. >> not allowed. >> no. >> would you ever permit that? [laughter] >> we fantasize but we don't carry it out. >> we're moving on to mary todd lincoln. this is quite a staggering looking gown. >> this is not painted from life. this is painted by her niece, i believe, after death. when you advance the slide, you'll notice it's modeled on a matthew brady photograph.

>> it's romanticized. >> highly romanticized. >> it seems like she's wearing that dress with that head dress. >> that's a good point. >> could be. yeah. >> what do you think? >> i think it's modeled on that photograph. >> interesting. >> she famously had a dressmaker, elizabeth keckley, a well-known african american dressmaker. she was criticized, wasn't she, for being so interested in fashion? >> mary lincoln wanted to be dolley madison. had war not broken out she probably would have been an incredibly successful white house hostesses. but a civil war happened. so on the one hand mary's doing the right thing, showing stature and stability of the president by entertaining, dressing well, playing this part. on the other hand, there's a war going on and you're going to be criticized for fashion. she's in an uncomfortable

situation. she doesn't have as much of her husband's time as she would normally have. elizabeth keckley was also a southerner, someone she can relate to and becomes her confidant. so fashion is a way they can talk together and work together. it became her downfall in the end. she was taken out by something called the old clothes scandal where mary tried to sell her old clothes, which is hardly a disreputable thing to do. she was so afraid after the president's death of being impoverished that she employed elizabeth keckley to go with her to new york, where they were trying to be discrete. but people knew who mrs. lincoln was. they stayed in a hotel where mary lincoln refused to stay in a room that mrs. keckley couldn't stay in. so they slept in the attics because the hotel wouldn't serve mrs. keckley, the restaurant wouldn't serve mrs. keckley. so mary wouldn't eat in the restaurant. they would have food in their room. but two fine dealers who would sell mary's clothes, it became a

nine-day wonder as all of new york came to look at mary's clothes but would not bid. and the press was scathing. it's the reason mrs. keckley wrote her memoir, was to try and save mary's reputation. >> and then mary severed their relationship. she was so disconcerted by elizabeth keckley who was trying to tell good things about her, revealing secrets of the white house, that this woman who she called her best and dearest friend, they never spoke again. >> mrs. lincoln was really manic depressant. wasn't she? >> i think today we would say mary could have benefited from a little prozac. [laughter] to be fair. now, to be fair. >> she went through a bit. >> had two children die. had three children die and her husband die in front of her. so i can understand if she was a little depressed. when you're talking about the décolletage, mary lincoln is fond of her shoulders. her husband thought she was beautiful but infamously had one dress, in mrs. keckley's memoir,

with a long train, a low bodice, and he remarked that the cat had a fine tale tonight, maybe if a little more of the tale were up by the neck it would be a finer dress. [laughter] >> and this is an elizabeth keckley dress? >> it is. >> as is this. that's the back of it. >> actually, it's the bodice. two bodices, right? >> mmhmm. is that normal? >> absolutely. many, many dresses had two bodices, one for evening and one for day. because by this time there's a real distinction. for evening, short, plunging, but for daytime you're all covered up. that wouldn't have been true in dolley madison's day. but here it's clear distinctions. in the evening you were with your social equals, theoretically. and it was all aesthetic display. it wasn't considered overtly sexual. but in the daytime you're out, all covered up. >> i have a sincere question. how much did the first lady's

wardrobe impact the reputation of the president and his administration? was it just a sidebar? >> i think it's a very easy thing to trivialize. it's certainly not the first thing you're thinking about in the presidential administration. mrs. robb said something earlier about dressing, showing your value, dressing to your value. show for what you're worth. "selling for what you're worth." thank you. that's the first lady's job. she is representing the administration, the style of the administration, how formal the administration is and the stability and value of the administration. if this is a well put together, stately, expensively dressed woman, then you can reckon that the administration is stable, has style, can entertain european dignitaries and can stand equal with the crowned heads of europe which when

you're trying to get somebody to come in on your side of the civil war when you need england to come in on your side, that's what you want to present. >> precisely. let's move on to mrs. cleveland, francis cleveland. let's see some of her style. >> was that painting in the style of sergeant or by sergeant? >> i think it's in the style. >> this is a worth gown also. it is silk, indian, embroidered with orange blossoms, draped with a silk tulle with a circlet on her hands. >> this would have been the height of fashion. to be his client, would almost always travel over to paris. he would put together a look for you.

he was the first one who took from small-scaled artisans, dressmakers sewing at your hem, to being someone all about big business and high art. and very often he'd tell his clients, you know, i see you in yellow. he was sort of a dictator and much mocked in the press. but he was the first hugely successful, established couturier. this was the height of fashion. >> when we think of fashion designers, his name pops up at the very beginning. >> this is also her wedding dress. >> there is her wedding, which happened in, when did it happen? >> in the white house. in the blue room, if i remember correctly. that is an absolutely fictitious drawing. [laughter] it was hidden from reporters. an announcement went out that the president was going to be

married. people were literally trying to peer into the windows, which were blocked. and the artists had to come up with their rendition of what the wedding must have looked like. she was amazingly, they called her yum yum. and speculation had been that he would marry her mother. when asked, are you getting married, he said he was waiting for his bride to grow up. and he wasn't kidding. >> she was very young. she graduated from college, went to europe, came home, and married the president of the united states. she's sort of had a old head on young shoulders; very stately, very grave, very mature. >> and here she is wearing what we would call choker today around her neck. at the time they were calling it a dog collar. i don't think it was a compliment. >> it was following alexander prince of wales so it helped establish that. hers were often encrusted with diamonds. so again, very stylish. >> i'm sure the wctu took comfort in it.

of course, the young first lady supposed to be a role model so she announced that mrs. cleveland was going to stop wearing this very low-cut bodices which they thought was wonderful. they hadn't checked with mrs. cleveland. mrs. cleveland, thank you very much, she would continue to wear what she was going to wear. so they had to take comfort in the gloves and the sleeves. >> we see another example where the bodice is switched out. >> that would be a dinner bodice. >> i like it. does it also mean it expands? [laughter] >> you can see that's a corseted waist. notice the dress is made with a separate bodice and skirt. that's typical. you don't have many one-piece dresses then. >> actually, the piece on that is three bodices. the one it came with, which is actually the peach bodice made in paris. and then when they got back to america, that green bodice was

made by lottie barton a baltimore dressmaker. some was taken out of the skirt and remodeled as yet another bodice. >> i love the petticoat peeking out. beautiful. >> that is wonderful. back up again. yes. all right. now we have mrs. woodrow wilson. she was in the white house from 1913 until 1921, which was a very interesting period of time for a lot of reasons. >> she looks in that first picture like the whole transition of fashion happened between the first picture and the second. >> yes. that's true. when you look at this. this is i guess the flapper era. >> looks like early 1920's. >> probably about. well, if it's from the white house, it's the very late teens.

and she was very fond of black so most of her clothes, aside from being a widow who married the president, most of her clothing is in black and white. >> was she forward-thinking in her taste? >> i find it hard to believe it's the late teens. to me it looks like it's the '20's. but it's hard to tell from the whole picture. i'd like to see it in person. >> i wonder if it's a post white house dress. >> it could be. >> here is another. >> this is another very pretty one. >> it's very pretty. >> that could be teens. that could be late teens. >> that style reminds me of - >> it does. i doubt it is a poures, but it has that kind of sort of ethnic, romantic feel. >> exactly. >> according to our notes, the label inside the jacket identifies this as a piece by worth. >> yes, he had worked for worth for a little while. >> that's true. >> or the sons of worth.

when they hired him they said even a great restaurant needs a potato fryer so you're in charge of the french fries. we do the grand ball gowns. you can do the day dresses. he didn't last long there. >> this is also attributed to worth. was worn at a private dinner party at the white house in 1915. >> that's kind of retrograde for 1915. it's not at all fashionable. that's more like a -- looking dress. dress, or 1913. >> yes. it's really old-fashioned with that mono bosom, the new high waist, the neo empire style. >> i have to say almost every dress, when we were trying to mount a dress on exhibit right now. when we have a good amount of the clothes, some came from the national trust and some that came from mrs. wilson herself, really as they were cleaning out

the house in d.c. after her husband's death. but every dress we took down to the conservator, we'd choose a new one. i would get a call who would say, you have to come look at this. she did something to it. mrs. wilson had a sewing machine and apparently liked to fiddle with her clothes because almost every one of these pieces has been cut up or remade. and the struggle of finding a dress that was mostly intact that we could mount didn't look weird. it was time-consuming. and this is the dress we finally came up with that she had done the least damage to. >> you keep them as historical museums. for the fashion museum, they're like, sorry, it's not working. >> why was she compelled to do all of this tweaking? >> we've been very curious. we're still trying to find if we can find a note that says, well, today i was bored and i remade my dinner dress from i could

speculate that she spent a lot of time alone, a lot of time with her ailing husband. maybe she just so needed to amuse herself. she did make her own red cross hat. maybe it's just a strange hobby she had. maybe she fancied herself as a designer and wanted to see it's what we were speculating; she had an interest in fashion and wanted to see what she could do. >> if valerie's correct, she would have been the first one out on "project runway." [laughter] >> make it work. >> she was having difficulty making it work. we're moving on to grace coolidge, mrs. calvin coolidge, in the white house from 1923 to 1929. this is a gorgeous -- >> beautiful. >> amazing. very beautiful. >> the president wanted her to wear a white dress. artist said that he wanted, wanted the composition to be red and white.

apparently the president who liked the odd joke said, "paint the dog red." [laughter] >> you said that dress was originally slit higher, right, with some leg showing? >> apparently. this is part of the white house historical association collection, not ours. >> this is a very interesting photograph. president coolidge prevents grace from wearing pants and bobbing her hair as short as she would have preferred. he often bought her luxurious hats and things to wear to public events. what's interesting about this photograph, we were looking at it earlier, it is in the white house. it's a staircase that no longer exists. it's been removed. i hope not because of what she was wearing. [laughter] and this is quite beautiful. >> this is a flapper depression

from '25 or '26. that's the perfect little flapper dress. heavily beaded. >> it's interesting how much of that cami sticks out. normally an arm would be there. >> i think it helped. >> he was a notorious cheapskate. this was his one extravagance to buy his wife clothes or to say i saw this and you must have it. he thought she was beautiful, doted on her and didn't want her to wear the same thing twice. >> wow. >> and did she like the president's taste? >> she seems to have. she was very subservient isn't the right word. she knew what he liked. these were not the battles she was going to choose. she also had a sewing machine and quietly also ran up some of her own clothes. >> oh, dear. we have to banish those home machines. >> everybody sewed. >> my grandmother did.

>> she did have an interest in appearing she liked casual clothes, the sportswear that was coming out at the time. so if you see a lot of candid pictures of her, you can see a much more casual look. >> and she was an avid animal lover. so it begs the question: what is she doing with that raccoon? >> that's rebecca the raccoon. >> did it become a collar? >> the temptation to say, yes, eleanor roosevelt. >> that's true. >> that fox. >> here we have eleanor roosevelt who was in the white house for a very long time, 1933 until 1945. and this is her crepe, silk, evening gown for the 1933 inaugural ball. >> i read that the sleeves were removable. oh, i see.

>> we have it on display now with the sleeves off because that's the way she wore it. >> oh, it is. >> there are wonderful moonstone clasps at the shoulders. my favorite part because it's not an eleanor roosevelt -- you don't think eleanor roosevelt and think slinky, but the back fastens with a small clasp. and if you take the sleeves off, you can open up the back and have it come down. so you get a nice draped, low back. and it's such tease a wonderful very movie star to me, very '30s. >> such a wonderful, sexy stylish decade. >> you don't think of eleanor roosevelt as sexy. >> no. >> it's true. you don't. she was a bit of a minx. and christmas readings from the president and mrs. roosevelt. it's hard to tell what either one of them is wearing. [laughter] and this is a lawn

party for a white house guards. that was very democratic in its own way. >> the suit, let' see. on the right, it's a dress. always looks like a suit to me. it's a dress. this is what she wore to the first inaugural ceremony. so it's a beautiful they called it eleanor blue. it's sort of lavender color. >> how interesting. >> it was eleanor blue. and oddly, we have the hat that's supposed to go with it in the collection made out of the same fabric. but she didn't wear it. i'd love to know why. >> what was the fabric? >> it's sort of a velvet. so it's a beautiful sort of shimmery lavender with little flowers toward the back. >> i think she looks contrast. >> so it wasn't uncommon at all for first ladies to recycle looks and wear things numerous times.

>> yes. you wore your clothes again, especially during a depression, during the war, but you also it's something you can say to show that you are not as extravagant as people might think that you might be. and the press will note if you're wearing something again. depending upon the event of the press and how popular you are, you're either going to get credit for that or it's going to be a detriment and people are going to remark that you're not supporting the fashion industry enough, that you're not buying enough new clothing, that you're not giving a good impression of the united states. you can't win. you cannot win being the first lady with your clothes. >> these were serious warriors. it was especially difficult. didn't want to step up and out. now we have mrs. dwight d. eisenhower in the white house from 1953 until 1961.

and what did we think about mrs. eisenhower's style? >> quintessentially '50s. pretty in pink, big, poofy skirts. >> one of the most popular with little girls who visit the collection. you can't beat the fairy tale pink princess dress. >> you see that right here, most definitely. certainly is bedazzled. valerie, do you think mrs. eisenhower was able to retain the style because she could purchase it or because it was embedded in her? lisa kathleen, i'm asking you the same. >> it's of the period. so in that sense it's fashionable. but it's by no means cutting edge fashion. it's sort of anne fogerty if not dior. >> she loves clothes, but mamie eisenhower will tell you herself this is by nettie rosenstein. so she will go to a designer or she will buy it from a mail

order catalog. whatever she thinks is pretty is what interests her and also that doesn't look old. mamie eisenhower was very concerned she not look old ladyish. so she wanted things and this dress to me is a good example as something that made her feel young in which she appeared young. >> and another. >> which comes with matching shoes, matching purse, and frightening opera length gloves. that is more magenta than you have ever seen in your life. >> oh, dear. >> the '50s could be sublime or it could be just frightening. >> when they said you had the mamie look, was that a putdown or a compliment? >> at the time it's always a compliment, i think, that you're dressing like the first lady. mamie pink. if the first lady seems to have a color, you're wearing mamie

pink or something that would be very popular in the white house. you catch the first lady's eye if you're dressed like her. so if you're going to an event at the white house, it can't hurt to be wearing something that mamie eisenhower is going to like. >> and everybody, pink was a really popular color then. sort of a sink pink again. sort of femininity, the feminine mystique. that was a period a lot of people could identify with her and her clothes that would make it popular. >> most definitely. i love the caption of this photo. "mamie enjoyed a good bargain." [laughter] >> on her mail order. >> and this is interesting. lisa kathleen, can you tell us about this textile? >> this is not a piece of our collection. >> oh, sorry. >> it is a toile. it shows scenes in life. so the house of gettysburg and

other places that they visited and had been. it's like a quilt would be the story of your life this fabric in a little ways. >> do we know where this dress is? >> i do not know where this dress is. i'm going to assume it is in the presidential library. >> all right. >> and the head of the presidential library system just went, oh, maybe. >> moving on to mrs. kennedy. we all know, a style setter and someone people followed very, very, very carefully. what was it about mrs. kennedy's style? >> seemed aristocratic. and i think it was very much an upper class style which went from eastern seaboard right across to europe.

so it was a look for a lot of americans which was strike strikingly chic. people thought these were just nice clothes that one wore. but for the average american it was the first sight of a first lady wearing this sort of chic clothing. >> was it a glimpse inside a very rarified universe? >> i think that would be fair to say. >> it always seemed to me it's a style you can look at and think it might be achievable for you. you can imagine buying that dress. >> everybody, "women's wear daily covered her like a war. everything she did they were covering. the general public was fascinated. >> i love this picture. it's jackie in a strapless dress. i remember we have in the collection we had a sleeveless dress. we have a one shoulder dress and a strapless dress. we have a cocktail dress with a jacket. i remember reading that there was concern over mrs. kennedy's shoulders and whether they could be seen. cassini talked about having to convince the president that this was ok. so they moved from an inaugural

dress that was sleeveless but with an overlay of chiffon to a one shoulder dress for her first state dinner gown designed by cassini to eventually be strapless dresses. they found the public liked mrs. kennedy's shoulders just fine. >> i was amazed when i read that, that he didn't want her wearing the strapless gown. >> it's always been part of a continual problem. what is the public going to say? you belong to us. you're the first lady. is what you're wearing appropriate? lord knows we have opinions on people's clothes. but now it continues. can mrs. obama wear a cardigan to meet the queen and shorts and sneakers in the grand canyon? what would you wear in the grand canyon? >> a ball gown. it's true. i just want to make one comment. this is the president and mrs. kennedy with the cultural attache' from fans. they're at the national gallery of art here. the mona lisa is visiting. what year is it?

all i will say is as a kid, i remember standing in line to see the mona lisa and it was well worth it. this is a beautiful dress. this is oleg cassini 1961, yellow silk. so the black and white photograph is of the look that you see in color, but the bodice is switched out. >> switching bodices. >> still switching. yes. the bodice in the black and white photograph is dark. >> it was dark green. the original bodice. it was switched out. >> do we know why? does it even matter? matter of taste? she changed her mind. at least she didn't sew it up. [laughter] >> you can imagine jackie o. >> all right.

we're moving on to mrs. richard nixon, 1969 to 1974. it was maintained that mrs. nixon represented the average woman. what do we think about that? >> who put that forth? >> they just purposely, nixon, even winning he wasn't the most popular of individuals. when he campaigned, he actually said whatever you think of me, we all can agree that pat would be a wonderful first lady. [laughter] it's an odd thing to say. but she was a lovely woman, a friendly woman who wasn't used nearly to the effect she could have been by the white house because they just didn't understand her charm and the value and the power that she had. so they trotted her out as a symbol of the average housewife. sort of tried to mold her into this look or this image.

she's just like you. >> and you think of when nixon talked about her republican cloth coach, you know, that she was not the kind of person who was in a fancy fur coat. and then you compare that to all of the reports about mrs. kennedy shopping and spending tens of thousands of dollars so that mrs. kennedy said, "i would have had to buy sable underwear to spend that much money." you have two very different images in the public of two first ladies. >> which is again how you can use the first lady and her fashion to promote the presidency candidacy and to create a particular image. >> these are images of mrs. nixon in clothing that we're used to seeing her in a kind of uniform. how would we describe it? >> it kind of reminds me of the queen in a way. sort of one monochromatic, one

color so that you can pick her out in a crowd. you came to see this lady, so she wants you to be able to see her. that's part of what she's doing, being visible. >> and it's perfectly fine but it's not fashionable. it's a kind of ceremonial uniform. i think that's a good idea. >> it has dignity. >> i was asked once if first ladies, did first ladies aim to be sexy? and after i sort of choked for a minute, i said, no, i think they aim to be appropriate. >> right. and mrs. nixon embodies that look of an appropriate first lady for your age, for your station, for the activity in which you're involved. you aim to be appropriate. >> unfortunately it was the coming of the s. even an appropriate dress looks a little odd. it's very easy for other people to look extremely. >> i love june carter cash. the chiffon is rolling in and out. >> the decade the tapes forgot.

[laughter] >> and it's on its way back. >> oh, yes. again. >> it fascinates me. i never think of an evening gown with a front zipper. but betty ford's state dinner dress, there is no inaugural gown for her. she's the only first lady that got to choose to send something to us. she chose a dress she had worn to several state dinners. it's her favorite shade of green. it has a zipper in the front. it still fascinates me. i don't think i've ever, ever any other time seen i would ask you. is that really odd? >> what was the date of the gown? >> i'm going to say 1974. >> in the '40s i think there were front zippers. zippers were used more. >> it's not unheard of for them. it's a lovely dress.

>> it's beautiful. and here is a close-up of mrs. nixon's inaugural gown, one of them. is that correct? >> this is her first inaugural gown. i have to say, this is one of the pieces we were surprised to find displayed so much better and so much better since we've redone the mannequins. the sparkle, it's a very simple dress with the deepest jewel felt and bolero jacket. it has the most amazing shimmer to it. any way she turned or moved it must have been this beautiful glitter. a series of dresses in this time period, it's interesting, yellow. when we put them together, you were like yellow was very popular for a while. we have a series of dresses that are pastel, pastel yellow, blue, pastel green. then you moved to the other side and suddenly we have the nancy reagan white and then vivid blue, purple, vivid red, and back to white again.

it was an interesting rainbow going on. >> interesting. well, we are going to move on to mrs. ronald reagan and the white house from 1981 to 1989. this is my least favorite fashion decade, i have to say. >> one thing you have to notice is how mrs. reagan i would think almost singlehandedly transformed red of communist revolution to the color of republican. all of these men wearing red ties owe a debt to mrs. reagan for transforming the symbol of this color. >> that's a powerful operation to have succeeded. >> very powerful. >> and a wonderful example of fashion really reshaping the image of the white house. you move from the carters who had this very, the white house is never going to be casual, but a much more casual, even the inaugural balls were parties, not balls. but a more casual entertaining style. a purposefully more casual look. and then when the reagans were

elected, all of the pre-speculation is on the hollywood glamour that will come. mrs. reagan's designer clothes, and what will the style of the white house be? and that was a white tie inaugural ball; first since the eisenhowers. and just a much more formal white house. so we really do look to her clothes for indicators of what the administration will be like. >> that is a powerful role to have. and she wears a lot of adolfo. >> yes. and galinos. >> in fact, this is galanos. last two were adolfo. >> there was a scandal about her accepting designer clothes as gifts. was there not? >> i forgot about that. >> were they gifts? if they were, how were they declared and paid for? but she came from a world where this was normal. >> in hollywood you get swag all the time. >> all the time. and how to translate that into washington life, which is such a

very different thing. a few bumps in at the time road. fascinating closet. everything with a tag. she reported when she wore this dress, to what function, the date in which she wore this dress. everything is tagged so that you can tell. she does rewear clothes. you can tell when in rotation it had been. >> that's a sign of a person really interested in clothes and in her wardrobe. >> and how she presents herself. >> absolutely. >> wouldn't greet the same person twice in the same dress. >> very thoughtful, i think. [laughter] >> i think you had that tie on last time i saw you. [laughter] >> couldn't you get another tie? >> exactly. i think he only owns one. and you might. that might be your perception. absolutely. i'm going to start labeling my clothes. >> on the sentimental side, took a lot of guff for wearing a dress that she had worn for the

gubernatorial ball. it was a sentimental choice. mrs. reagan, who has this beautiful dress, was also a sentimental journey. he had made the gown for ronald reagan's gubernatorial inaugural ball one shouldered, white wool. so i think mrs. reagan was also making a little bit of a sentimental journey. >> but it's a little bit different. if you hire one of america's greatest to make another masterpiece. >> true. >> if you pull it out of the closet and walk it out again. >> and here is another adolfo suit. >> you wonder why wasn't chanel suing at that point? >> here we can copy everybody and it's perfectly legal. no, it's true. all of this inspiration from europe, i spent a lot of time

tracy, you probably did, too, on capitol hill advocating for the design prohibition act. fashion designers in this nation do not own their intellectual property. it's largely because we were a nation of copiers. there was no incentive to have such laws in place. so we could rip people off right and left. it's perfectly legal. >> it is. for as many people would like to have intellectual property rights, there are times more who don't want to go down that road. >> that's true. >> it would hurt their business. >> so we're moving on to mrs. clinton. and how would we describe mrs. clinton's style? >> the famous pantsuits and the hair problem. [laughter] >> i think at the heart of it, i just feel like it's not important to her. you know what i mean? i think public service is very important to her. >> yes. >> but her appearance is like down on the list. she has a lot of things to do today. >> mrs. clinton is looking very

presidential these days. >> she is. >> there's definitely an evolution that's been taking place. the bar has been raised. >> i think since she got to be friends with oscar and donna. >> at least she's taking notice. >> i think mrs. clinton is also this is a problem rosalynn carter had. it comes as a surprise and a bit of a shock that people are this interested in your clothes and take such an intense interest in your clothes or that part of your job was going to be to promote american fashion. if i do good work, you should be looking at that. but it is a part of the first lady's job to promote american fashion industry, to promote american looks, and to be a kind of billboard for a large part of our economy. no one tells you that when you're coming in until you start finding out that you're supposed to have these particular looks. it's a very valid thing for the first lady to be doing. you're an emissary for other

things. you should be for american fashion. >> i'm always talking about the clothes we wear send a message about how the world perceives us, whomever we happen to be. in the work that i've done on capitol hill, having elected individuals run from me saying i don't want you to judge me; i didn't know you were going to be here. [laughter] and my response is i'm never going to judge you providing you accept responsibility for how you're presenting yourself to the world. so if you choose to run, run on your own account but not on mine. >> you have to think, mrs. clinton was a lawyer. lawyers are not the best dressed socioeconomic group in america. they're notoriously sort of very conservative, very frumpy. that's where people think fashion is all about money. if you think -- take a group of

lawyers. now take a group of hairdressers. which one's better dressed? it's the hairdressers because they're interested in fashion. and the lawyers mostly aren't. except when it's important for your clients and then they'll say, ok, dress to impress the jury. you're thinking that way a lot of careful thought. i think mrs. clinton slowly started to learn that in a way the american public was like a jury. they were looking. they were judging. >> absolutely. so now we have mrs. bush. let's move to her style. seen also with nancy reagan. what would we like to say about mrs. bush's style, laura bush? >> apparently not interested in fashion unlike barbara bush who was very interested. we think of barbara bush looking like a granny with her fake pearls but she was good friends with scoozi and had fancy dresses whereas laura bush doesn't seem to have been, she wanted to look appropriate and

everything, but it wasn't an interest of hers. >> i just always think of her as being so mild. you see photos of her wearing soft colors. it's relatively demure, nothing that's going to shout out. i think she just has a very gentle, mild presence. >> no fake cowboy looking like he sometimes would put on. >> there was an interesting colorship though that went on. she was very taupe, sort of beige when they were running. when she came in, this beautiful red dress. and michael tells a wonderful story about coming actually to see the first lady's exhibit that mrs. bush asked him to look at the exhibition and see what color hadn't been used it recently so they didn't repeat a color. he said he didn't see red and red was a favorite color of his and is a gorgeous color on her. so she designed this beautiful sparkly, crimson dress, ruby red dress.

as time went on, you noticed mrs. bush wearing more color and beautiful deep colors which are beautiful on her. i think when you see pictures of yourself that much, you start to see how everyone else is seeing you and you can start to look at yourself in these settings and maybe adjust a little bit. >> you do also see her turning away from him from regional designers to national designers. >> there seems to be a trend that your first designer is maybe somebody from home or somebody you've known. and the second designer, at least for the inaugural gown, the second designer is a name that everyone recognizes. i don't know what lessons learned are from that. but you've come to know, >> a couple of them for clinton, bush, but i don't think for that many. i don't think we can draw a moral from it yet. >> i think maybe you just learn your first one might not have been as successful as you wanted.

i think mrs. obama is maybe eisenhower who used the same twice, for both inaugural gowns. >> here we have mrs. obama. i have my biases, i have to say. tracy, you have dressed our current first lady. >> an honor, yeah. >> a number of times. what's your sense of mrs. obama's style? >> you know, i feel like she's just purely an individual who wears what she likes and knows looks good on her. i think she isn't looking so much to the past to see how first ladies have dressed and should dress. she's really a woman of the moment. i think it's very pure and natural how she presents herself. when you meet her and speak with her, that's what you get.

you get this realness. i think for the presidency and for their impact on the world and the country, i think they want to present this realness. >> it's sincere. don't you believe? >> yeah. very much is. >> i think she's had a huge impact on the fashion industry not so much perhaps on the average american woman, though i think the right to bear arms struck a note with a lot of people, but i think that for the fashion industry it's been super important. jason wu's career would be nowhere if she hadn't worn his inaugural gown. it was really good for all of those designers. she did kind of spread the wealth. she would have different designers doing dresses. i think it would, it helped a lot of them. >> she didn't just go to established designers. >> exactly. >> she went to a lot of new, younger designers, slightly more

obscure designers. she also wears a lot of affordable clothing. >> yes. accessible. >> which is amazing. i think that people love to see her wearing something that they can afford to buy. >> and they do say if she's wearing something, they say it's j. crew, it will be sold out. >> it's true. >> the kate effect. it will be gone the next day. >> there are dresses of ours that she's worn that stores call and i have certain stores that are like, please let us know if you know what she's going to wear because then we'll order more. you can't predict because they don't call you up the day before or the month before and say she's going to wear this on this date, produce a few extra hundred or thousand dresses. >> did you know, i have to say, i think the dress that you designed that she wore at the democratic convention is beautiful. it's one of my, i covet that dress. >> thank you. >> for the collection. did you know she was going to wear that? >> i did not. we got a phone call, you know, a few weeks in advance saying she had a special engagement and if we had some ideas of something that might be appropriate or

that she might like to send them down. i'm sure that they called several people the same but they did not say what it was for. i think it's the next slide. we had no idea. literally the dnc, the convention, was on an evening when we were working. we were at the office because it was fashion week. >> a slow period for you. [laughter]