fighters who are joining the militant group. witnesses who are joining the homeland security security and state department officials. this is two hours, 20 minutes. >> without objection, all members may have five days to the submit questions and extrainous materials.

whether it's isis or al nusra or corson, there's -- the influx of foreign fighters far surpasses anything we have even seen in afghanistan. the scale of this mass migration is unprecedented and it results in deadly attacks. more foreign fighters have fought for islamic groups like isis in the last two years and then fought in iraq in afghanistan in the last 12 years. i have a map, i hope we can put that up on the screens. that show the areas that these fighters have come from they have come from all over the world. according to estimates, around 15,000 jihadists from over 80

countries have traveled to syria to fight. 2,000 of these fighters are from th the -- all of these western passport holders can travel freely in europe and even to the united states once they have finished their tour of duty in syria. none of this is hypothetical. we have seen returning jihadists go on murderous ram pageses before. a french jihadist killed three people during a -- in october, a wannabe jihadist traveled to kill a canadian soldier. a senior obama administration official in september said that some americans fought with isis in skiera have returned to the united states. one known example is the indication of eric harun.

he actually fought with isis and al nusra in syria on an rpg team. he flew to dulles international airport where he was taken into custody by the fbi. pled guilty of lesser charges and was released in september of that same year. harun died of a drug overdose in 2014. he isn't the only american we need to be concerned about. european gjihadists are just as much a threat to america as they travel to the united states under a visa waiver program. i doubt that u.s. and european intelligence services know whoever one of these individuals may be, just as a side note, the dod and the fbi were both invited to be here today to testify at this hearing and they

would not come. some say these individuals may slip through the cracks. the network is global sophisticated and effective. isis uses it's global network to recruit, fundraise and smuggle fighters into and out of syria. this is much more sophisticated network than anything we know from core al qaeda operatives out of pakistan and afghanistan. the best way to reduce the threat that these foreign fighters pose is to identify how the isis recruitment network works and develop a global strategy to destroy it. we need to understand what countries these fighters are coming from but also how they're getting into syria, once they leave their home countries. what kind of political pressure are we using on these countries to go after these networks? we're not sure what that is,

that's part of the purpose of this hearing today. complicating issues further, there are a number of gulf countries who are either unwilling or unable to crack down on gulf countries. many of these countries act as a hub of foreign fighters, we need to domore to -- tackle the threat but we can't do this without a comprehensive plan. we also need to combat isis online recruitment networks, social media is crucial to the isis network of recruiting. they have a whole media center dedicated to -- this is how their recruitment works, after initial vetting by an isis recruiter, travel logistics are finalized. turkey is the most commonly used route. so called religious and physical training begins followed by testing the foreign fighters

with small tasks and after that recruits are given their marching orders to go and fight. they're paid and they're given weapons. this is a well oiled machine and very organized. isis is only going to get better, more efficient and more deadly and will turn more attention to attacks on the west in years to come. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses this morning. i will now turn to the ranking member mr. sherman from california for his five-minute opening comments. >> isis is evil and they found ways to convince americans that they are more evil than other forces in the middle east, but the fact is that the enemies of isis are at least nearly as evil and i think demon straably -- if possible in the present decade.

begs the question what will flourish in the territory, both the cyber territory, to the ideological territory and the physical territory that isis now occupies. isis's enemies now include the shiite axis of hezbollah, assad, the shiite militias of iraq under iranian guidance and of course tehran itself. and those enemies also include al qaeda and of course it's fully authorized branch, to the al nusra front. there is talk that isis may be able to carry on an operation outside the middle east, compare that to its enemies. in 1983, we saw americans die by the hundreds in beirut, in the 1990s, we saw attacks in south america from hezbollah and iran.

and there was the attempt by iran to assassinate the saudi ambassador recently right here in washington, d.c. no one can doubt that the iranians, the syrian government and hezbollah have the -- have a capacity to get their agents into western countries in the united states after all, there's an iranian embassy just a couple of hundred miles north of where we sit at the united nations. as to al qaeda, their capacity to carry out attacks in the west was demonstrated on september 11 and the khorasan group which we headed in 2002 was headed into syria as a part of and alliance request the al nusra front, just as important as destroying isis is what would occupy it's deolo.

we have to prevent foreign fighters from joining isis, but the turks seem much more focused on what they see as their enemies, assad and many of the kurdish fighters. they have not allowed us to use interlink to attack isis, unless we alter our policy and decide to use our air force against assad. whether we should do that depends in part as to who would take over syria if assad were destroyed, right now al nusra and isis seem to be first and second in line, perhaps not in that order. in addition to president does not have the legal authority to wage war for more than -- he claims that authority with some support, the authority that is to say to go after isis on the theory that it is a splinter

group of al qaeda and in 2001, this congress authorized every effort against al qaeda. we must urge countries to seal borders and to deter their citizens from joining isis and other extremist forces in syria and iraq. we must dispel this notion that the people can go fight and then return and be monitored. if a foreign fighter returns, they must be imprisoned. and u.n. security council resolution 2178 passed in september requires countries to pass laws as we have for decades, that would put such terrorist operate tys in jail. that would do a lot making it clear, especially from european countries that returning fighters are not going to be monitored, they are going to be imprisoned, is not only consistent with the united

nations security resolution but will act to deter foreign fighters. finally, i will be using these hearings to once again urge the state department to hire people for their expertise in islamic theology and law. not because of fatwa issued by the state department would have credibility, but because state departments efforts to persuade legal scholars, islamic legal scholars around the world consists in going to them and saying, these guys are terrible, you think of the legal authority, you think of the legal arguments that will allow you to come out against them. no one would go to an american jurist and say my adversary is legal, you come up with the doctrine, you instead hire lawyers that know the law and that come to plead the -- when

we get the recognized legal scholars in the islamic world on our side, that would be helpful, and we are going to courts around the world. i yield back. >> i now reck fly the chairman of the subcommittee on west africa for her opening statement. >> thank you so much, judge. since the beginning of this congress, our two subcommittees have held hearings to explore the crisis in iraq and the rise of isil and we have yet to hear of a comprehensive strategy to address these issues from the administration. for more than three years now, the administration has failed to address the syria crisis head on. and instead has let the country become a safe haven for more and more terrorists to seek to harm the united states and our interests. we on this committee have

continued to sound the alarm and have been pleading with the administration to be more pro active in syria, to avoid skmilover effects that could destabilize the region. unfortunately, our calls have gone unanswered, even former officials from this same administration have been public about their own criticism over the president's syria strategy or lack thereof. the longer the administration delays and fumbles about, we must have a comprehensive strategy that not only remonths assad from power but addressings thor rang issue, and links the iraq, iran and isis together. all this does not give me much confidence that officials have a satisfactory plan in place to address the foreign fighters threat. while it is important that we

refrain from -- when talking about isil and foreign fighters, it is equally important that we not downplay the threat. the cia estimated in september that isil. now has between 21,000 and 31,500 total fighters in syria and iraq and at least 15,000 of whom are foreign fighters from 8 0 countries. u.s. intelligence officials have acknowledged a ---due to, quotes, the changing dping familiar aches of the battlefield, new recruits and other factor, it is difficult to -- what we do know is that the majority of foreign fighters are from nations in the middle east however there is a significant number, according dhs testimony that come from other countries including eover

100 americans. the reach of this terrorist organization has extended beyond our initial assessment as we saw the tragic killing of four people at the jewish museum in brussels or to the attack in belgium where isis -- in the hafbd, body and head, offering to after offering to help officials with their investigation, the possibility of homegrown or loep wolf attacks inspired by isil should be a -- the european union which has been soft on terrorism in the past, must take heed of these examples and heighten their terrorism laws as well as increase their cooperation with us. we must also remember that the process of foreign fighters

joining isil and the group's radicalization of westerners are still in the beginning stages. it took years before we saw the results of individuals joining osama bin laden and al qaeda in afghanistan, and the complete threat posed by isil foreign fighters remains to be seen. yes it is true that the problem of foreigners joining a terrorist group is not a new problem, this should not allow us, however, to be complacent, the sheer number of foreign fighters to isil is cause for alarm and any -- we must look rat all options available to us to prevent fighters from traveling to syria and iraq from returning to the united states and the recruitment in the first place. whether that is tightening travel restrictions on those who try to enter certain countries or go back to the u.s., increasing pejities, providing

support to terrorist groups, enhancing cooperation with our allies. we have to have a realistic debate about the measures necessary to take on foreign fighters, to monitor them here and overseas to arrest and detain them, before and after an attack all while assuring that our civil liberties are protected. i look forward, mr. chairman to hearing from our witnesses for what exactly the administration is doing to tackle this problem in both short and long-term as well as to encourage a debate we all need to be having. thank you, sir. >> i now turn to the ranking member of the skub committee in the middle east and north africa. mr. ted deutsch from there from for his opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman.

the issue of foreign fighters joining isis and other extremist groups in syria and iraq, poses a grave threat to global security and deserves this congress's full attention. >> the ri the rise of isis has been truly unprecide unprecident. isis broke away from al qaeda. isis has not just focused it's efforts on the battlefield. it's developed a propaganda machine which is spreading it's message to nearly every corner of the earth. isis producing pamphlets videos et cetera. with twitter and you tube, isis has a direct line across the world and in a grotesque display of disregard for human life, isis has used brutal beheadings of americans as a propaganda

tool. young men and women from the middle east, north africa, europe and beyond have signed up to join the fight in syria. estimates now put the number of foreign fighters at over 16,000. three years ago, we were first alarmed by reports of fighters coming into syria from other countries in the region, mainly from saudi arabia and north africa. we should be particularly concerned about to the alarming number of fighters coming from north africa. the chaos that followed the revolutions in tunisia and libya have followed very different results. libya has been overruin by competing militias, it is on the verge of becoming a failed state. however, tunisia's young, mostly educated population has struggled with unemployment and tunisia does not have libya's oil resources to keep the

country afloat. so despite tune vienne-- factor contributing to the rise of young tunisian men. as the article reported, the moderate islamist led government granted new religious freedoms after a half century of harshly enforced secularism. unfortunately, that freedom was exploited by extreme restrest -e new government has struggled to maintain a balance between security and religious freedom. and i raise the issue of tunisia to highlight the attractation of many youths even what should be considered moderate countries.

easy trance skit to the continue innocent and the porous borders give radicalized fighters returns home give my opportunities to exploit populations. a terror cell claiming al liege jennin -- shiite populations in saudi arabia have been attacked by isis aligned groups. there are over 500 foreign fighters from lebanon, a country already suffering the effects of isis. we must counter isis before it grabs hold of youths in tunisia, and in france and even here at home. government leaderings must take initiatives to speak -- on its return from a visit to turkey last week, pope francis encouraged muslim leaders to

issue global dcondemnations of terrorism. the u.s. and our partners should also encourage training for imom s's, the mosques should not be a breeding ground for terrorism. and ambassador, i hope you'll discuss in greeter detail the need for counter terrorism communication. we must continue to use our foreign aid to counter violent extremism in schools and among other vulnerable populations. this is a global threat and warrants a global response, no country is immune to the threat of terrorism and even as the united states leads over 60 nations in the fight against isis, we will always be the face of this coalition, and we must remain vigilant about the threat of radicalization or the threat of lone wolf attacks. again, i want to thank both of our witnesses for appearing here today, i look forward to a

productive discussion on this incredibly challenging effort to koufbter radicalization, stem the flow of fighters in and out of syria. >> the chair will now recognize other members for opening statements. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from south carolina, mr. wilson. >> on sunday both the fbi and the department of homeland security issued warnings to american military personnel will be the united states regarding possible threats from isil. sadly this comes back homeland security secretary jay johnson announced, quote, that the president would have is no credible information that isis is planning to attack the homeland of the united states, he said this in new york city in front of the council on foreign relations. this incredible statement by secretary johnson, preceded his unconstitutional review of illegal aliens, as a member of this committee as well as chairman of the ampled services subcommittee on personnel, i'm

grateful to promote the well-being of members and their families both at home and abroad. national radio talk show host today in her program chose a digital probe, restated the fbi and dhs warnings of isis threats here in america to military families and i look forward to the hearing today on how we can protect american families from the grotesque threat of persons who seek to conduct mass murder of american families in our country. thank you. >> the chair recognizes the chairman from virginia mr. connelly for one minute. >> thank you mr. chairman and i would hope that we guard against facile answers against the president. some of the president's loudest critics could not bring themselves to support his request to retaliate in syria against the use of chemical weapons and had the president heeded their advice, a year 3456 two years ago, isil today would

be better equipped and better trained because it drew from the very insurgents that the president was urging us to arm and train. i think the question is why, what motivates these men and women, especially men to join this barbaric movement. it's a very troubling question for the west and for islam itself. secondly how are they recruited? widely reported accounts of the use of social immediate y'all, very sophisticated, once it's appealed do we understand it? and finally, what are our options. option number one, priority number one is to pre-empt or prevent them getting to syria, because once they get to syria, we have a whole different set of challenges that require a whole different set of answers. so i'm looking forward to exploring those questions in today's hearing. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you gentlemen, the chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. cook for one minute.

>> thank you mr. chairman. you know, it's a sad commentary on what's going on in the world right now. just when you think you put down one terrorist group, there's another one that ridesrises fro ashes and it's something that underscores the fact that we must stay every vigilant and quite frachbingly we have to have a military that doesn't have its budget cut to the bone, because you never know what's going to happen tomorrow. i have been on this planet a long time. ted, i saw that smirk on your face and it's probably in my opinion, the world is probably most dangerous it has ever been since i have been solved in

those things, i've been in combat, been in war and now you strive to go forward and make the wormtd safe, not only for your country, but for your kids and your grand children. so thank you for having this hearing, i think this is something we cannot fall asleep on and as i said earlier, we got to be ever vigilant and question got this stuff going on. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. higgins for his opening statement. >> the rapid conquest of a territory covering large portions of syria and iraq is in part owed to the prolific recruitment of foreign fighters, which is now in excess of 15,000, part of the sbeg ral part of the strategy must be an

effect tiff program to stem the flow of foreign fighter who not only add to the foreign fighters strength, but who also represent a serious threat when they return to their countries of origin. of greatest concern are the roughly 2,000 foreign fighter e originating in foreign countries. until it can be properly addressed, the islamic state's proficient use of social media and other mediums to facilitate the recruitment of radicalization of these individuals. i look forward to today's discussion with our witnesses. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois. >> thank you mr. chairman, under both committees under which i szczerbiak. -- serve. we're bombing isis, that's good, i wish we had started that back in january when there was only a few thousand of them. today we're playing a lot of catch up. i just recently got back from

iraq, i guess two months ago now, a month and a half. when i left in '09 as a pilot in the military, the war was won and when i wchblt back just a couple of months ago, it was devastating to see. i hope we begin to see from this administration a strategy for syria, i echo what a lot of people have said. 200,000 dead syrians today, many of which are women and children, by the evil dictatorship of bashar al assad, which is no protector of christianity. the reason this rebellion exists, the reason people would even be attracted is isis, some people see him as the best alternative for assad. so i thihopefully we'll begin tr that from to the administration, it's been a few years, but maybe we'll catch some good news here soon and i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the

gentleman from rhode island for his opening statements. >> the mr. chairman, for holding this hearing on this very important issue. addressing that threat with a comprehensive and carefully developed and thoughtful strategy must be a top priority of our foreign policy. all options and their constitutions need to be carefully considered. even as the administration ramps up it's response with a $5.6 billion request from the president to aim rebels in syria, isil continues to attract foreign fighters, krug fighters from western countries, we must do all we can to stop this flow of fighter into the region. and we must exam ming how and why isil is -- access to additional fighting personnel and battleal resources.

i look forward to hearing the perspective of the witnesses we have assembled on thisz important issues. >> are there any other members tochb majority side? the chair recognizes the gentle lady from florida, ms. frankle for one minute. >> thank you very much for being here. i have to confess just a little bit of uneasiness of really what we should be doing with isil. but there are two issues that have been floating around in my mind that i'll try to articulate, just based on some things i have read or heard and i would like to get your reaction as you go forward. one to pick up on my colleague who talked about al assad and hundreds of thousands of his own people that he's slaughtered. and causing such a -- many of them, thousands to flee into

countries like turkey deza destabilize those countries and some will say that the isil is enemy is the firest fighter gernls assad. so my question is how do you balance going after isil, and are you helping assad, are we helping assad in that regard. and then the second issue that i have read and heard people say is that our actions, whether it's bombing, air strikes or whatever, that we tend to inflame certain folks that will cause them to use our actions as a recruitment for isil. i would like to hear your reaction to that. i yield back, mr. poe. >> anyone else wish to make an

opening statement? mr. kennedy, one minute. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you to the chairman and ranking members of this committee for holding this hearing. to our witnesses, thank you for coming here today, thank you for your service to our country. a number of my colleagues have already touched on the issues around trying to limit the number of foreign fighters coming in to syria in the region and obviously that's critical. the other as pekts of this is our ability to monitor their movements after they're there and once they return home. this puts an awful lot of pressure on our intelligence agency's apparatus to try and make sure we can successfully identify those fighters once they try to leave and try to gain entry back into the united states and canada. i would love to hear your assessment of those capabilities, how much confidence we have in our intelligence communities, in order to conduct those

operations, if they need additional resources if they need to do so and what road blocks you might see in making sure they are right every time and that's something that doesn't slip through the crackses. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois, mr. snyder more one minute. >> i would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today and sharing what ask being done and a very serious concern. it seems that there are three challenges we face, one is cutting off the source of these fighters, i would be interested in hearing your take as was mentioned earlier, why so many are coming from five county are tries, five countries represent half the total, morocco, tunisia, turkey, jordan and saudi arabia, what's being done to predict their progress towards syria and iraq, how do we prevent them from going and how do we make sure that they're not allowed to come back.

an i yield back my time. >> anyone else? >> i'll introduce our witnesses and give them time for their opening statements. the honorable robert bradke serves as advisor for skierian born -- -- previously served as our ambassador to croatiana. prior to joining dhs, he spent several years in private practice before a decades long tenure where he focused on the middle east. ambassador bradke, we'll start with you, you u have five minutes. >> chairman poe, distinguished members of the subcommittees.

few for the opportunity to appear today on behalf of the state department of this hearing on isis and the threat from foreign fighters. i would ask that the full text of my statement be included in the record and i'll proceed with a summary of my statement. mr. chairman, the state department along with other agencies, the united states government is deeply concerned about the threat posed by foreign fighters, who have travelled to syria and iraq to participate in the conflicts there. these fighters, many only whom have joined isil, al nu skrsra other terrorist organizations are a serious threat to our allies and a serious threat to the united states. these fighters may try to trourn their home countries or other countries and carry out attacks, in response to this, the united

states has been working closely with our syrian partners for over two years. the united states has intensified it's response by building a coalition of more than 60 countries with the-goal of degrading and defeating isil. john allen is leeding a comprehensive strategy including military support to our partners, dits disrupting the flow of foreign parters, stopping isil's funding, exposing isis' true nature. today i would like to describe to you how we're fighting the foreign fighter in isil. not only with the -- broader frame work of the threat posed by other terrorist organizations and groups such as al nusra and the khorasan group, critical to countering this threat is our

engagement with our foreign partn partners. the state department has been leading a government outreach effort with our foreign partn partners, an effort that's being carried out in all of our branchs of government. the department of homeland security, the department of justice u the department of the treasury, the federal bureau of investigation, our military commands as well as our embassies overseas. many my capacity as senior advisor for foreign engagement, i have let interagency delegation vision sits to 17 countries to address this issue with our partners. we and our partners reck nooirz that we must use all the tools at our disposal and correspondent across a wide range of activities. let me outline for you very briefly, seven areas where we are engaging with our foreign partners. first is information sharing, to prevent and interdict the travel

of foreign fighters, we are working bilaterally to bolster -- we have called upon our partners to make increased use of multilateral arrangements for sharing information, specifically interpol's sforn fighter fusion cell. second is law enforcement cooperation. we're using formal and informal mechanisms to help foreign authorities to bring suspected terrorists to trial. third, is capacity building. we have worked closely with a number of partner countries, including tunisia to help them strengthen their infrastructure to tackle the foreign fighter threat, including stronger counter terrorism legislation and improved interagency coordination. fourth is stopping the flow of external financing to terrorist organizations. together with the treasury department, we have aggressively raised with our partners, cases where we believe individuals or

organizations are raising funds that are used to support isil or other terrorist groups. in recent months, as isil has gained control of more territories, we're also engaging with our partners in the region to cut off isis from the sale of oil. we have sought to expose the true nature of isil and other terrorist groups through the work on social media. sixth is countering violent extremism. in my meetings with foreign part mes, i have found that all of us are looking for ways to keep individuals from being radicalized. we are sharing our enexperience in countering violent extremism programs that are being carried out in the united states and are working with partners to engage their own communities. seventh and lastly is border and aviation security. my colleague from the department of homeland security will go

into this area in greater detail. parallel with this bilateral engagement, we have joined with our partners in multilateral forum. approved united nations security council resolution 2178, a binding resolution that calls upon all countries among other things to prevent and suppress the recruiting, organizing, transporting or equipping foreign fighters. also in september, at a meeting chaired by secretary kerry and the turkish foreign minister, the global counter terrorism forum adopted the first ever set of international good practices for a more effective response to the terrorist fighter phenomenon. the foreign terrorist fighters working group, shared with the netherlands in morocco will take

place in marakesh december 15 and 16. mr. chairman, madam chairman, in his speech at west point, president obama stated we must shift our counter terrorism policy to and i quote more effectively partner with countries where terrorist networks seek a foothold, end quote, as i hope i have indicated in this statement, we are engaging with our partners, using all the tools at our does posal in order to deal with the threat posed by those fighters. i stand ready to address some of the issues the members raiseded during their statements and answer your questions, thank you. >> the chair recognizes you for your five-minute opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman, madam chairman and ranking member sherman and members of the subcommittees. thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the efforts by department of homeland security to protect our nation from terrorists operating out of

syria and iraq. i'm going to address how dhs helps protect the homeland from foreign fighters who are not from syria or iraq but who travel there to participate in the conflict and then may seek to attack the united states. u.s. persons, u.s. interests or u.s. allies. let me talk about the islamic state of iraq. i'm not going to do a full press briefing on isil, that would be in a classified setting. any credible threat to the u.s. home land from isil, however as has been noted, isil has encouraged it's supporters to carry out attacks and such attacks could be subjected without specific direction from isil with little or no warning. in addition terrorist group skrs shown interest in attacks on u.s.-bound airplanes. terrorists have tried to conceal impro viszed exploeive devices and commercial electronics in

years of the body they don't think will be thoroughly searched and in shoes, cosmetics or liquids in order to try to diffuse airplane screening. first aviation security. in early july, secretary johnson directed the transportation security administration to enhance screening at a number of oversees airports with direct flights to the united states. tsa increased the number of additional airports to use enhanced screening methods. dhs will work with air carriers in foreign airports to adjust screening measures to take into account changing to the threat. second preclearance. one of secretary johnson's initiate tys is to -- preclearance means that a plane takes off, all passengers and their baggage are inspected by

u.s. customs and border protections officers, using their full legal authorities and using enhanced aviation security approved by tsa. we have had preclearance in canada and the caribbean and we have recently expanded it to air land and the united arab emretsz. third, tracking foreign fighters. dhs along with the fbi, the national counter terrorism center, and the u.s. intelligence community is making greater efforts to track foreign fighter who is fought in syria who come from the united states or who seek to enter the united states from another country. fourth, we're encouraging other governments to collect their own information on foreign fighters. this topic is almost always item number one on dh s's agenda with european governments.

we are helped by u.n. security council resolution 2178 which has provided a new push for european and other governments to use technology like advance ed -- fifth, enhancing the elect frontic -- and the visa waiver program, vwp. dhs is increasing our ability to even -- travel to the united states without a state department issued visa under the skrees a waver program. on no 3, dhs began requiring additional data elements that will allow tcp to allow better security screening of vwp travel eve ers. the additional data provides an

additional layer of security. sixth, dhs is continually working to help communities identify homegrown violent extremists. secretary johnson regularly speaks of the challenge posed by the independent actor or lone wolf. in many respects, this is the hardest terrorist threat to detect and one of concern to dhs. we help detect hves through outreach and community engagement. secretary johnson personally participates in community meetings in chicago, columbus, minneapolis and los angeles that focuses on community concerns and building trust and partnership to counter violent extremism. second information sharing within the u.s. government. reaching dhs personnel in the field, as well as our state, local tribal and territorial partners. the fbi releases joint

intelligence bulletins to provide context and backgrounds for them to use. the interagency partners work continually to share information with each other about possible foreign fighters. mr. chairman, madam chairman, since 9/11, our partners in the law enforcement and intelligence community have vastly improved the nation's ability to detect and disrupt terrorist plots, we ask for your support as we continue to adapt to emerging threats and to improve our ability to keep our nation safe. thank you very much. we obviously are happy to answer your questions. >> thanning both of you, i'll recognize myself for five minutes for some questions. the united states is conducting air strikes, how have u.s. air strikes affected the flow of foreign fighters into syria? if it has.

>> with my sense looking at the numbers is that it's hard to say at this point that what the impact is, it is relatively soon after these strikes have taken place, the numbers that we monitor, the numbers that we track, are estimates at best, and again i think it's probably early to determine precisely what the impact is, it's obviously precisely what the impact is. it's obviously something, again, that our intelligence community is looking at, and it's possible that in a classified briefing they might be able to give you their assessment. again, from my perspective, the numbers, again, can vary for a variety of reasons. sometimes it's because we get better information from our partners. and that results in an increase in the estimate. >> so we don't know if it's effective or not? >> i would say that if the issue

is effective in reducing the flow of foreign fighters i would say at this point i would want to see more evidence before i come to a conclusion. >> mr. warrick do you have a different answer? >> no. there is an answer to that question but i think it needs to be delivered in a classified setting. >> turkey seems to me, appears to be to be a complicit, to some extent of allowing foreign fighters to flow through turkey into syria. would you weigh in on your opinion of what the government of turkey, their position is on foreign fighters going through turkey into syria? ambassador, you be first. >> mr. chairman, turkey is a very important partner of ours in the region. we share a very important common interest with them. we have a shared interest in seeing a political settlement in syria, that removes assad.

we have a shared interest in combatting the terrorist organizations that are operating in syria and iraq. we have a shared interest in dealing with the humanitarian crisis and also shared interest in promoting stability in iraq. >> i understand that. that's not my question. my question is the government of turkey complicit in allowing foreign fighters to go through their country and fight for isil? >> i was trying to explain some of the perspective on this problem, sir. the turks have more than a million refugees inside turkey. turks have a 900 kilometer border. >> i've bento one of those syrian camps. >> there's 37 million tourist rifle in turkey every year. we believe turkey and we've had an extensive dialogue on this issue for some time is taking steps trying to deal with the flow of foreign fighters. turks have added a considerable number of names to their denied

entry list. turks are working with us in funding that might come from oil sales to the foreign terrorist organizations. >> isn't turkey buying oil from isil and coming to turkey from isil. >> there's considerable traffic we have discussed with the turks across the border. again the latest information the turks are taking steps -- >> are they buying oil from isis. >> if turkey is buying oil from isil no. are they smuggling across the border, yes. we're trying to cut off working with the turks. the other thing i would mention is sharing of information with turkey. we're seeing much better information sharing with turkey with the united states and also with our european partners. >> they are not complicit. that's my question. >> my answer is they are not complicit. >> social media, we know,

obvious recruitment is being done in a very effective manner, appears through social media. there's the argument by some in our law enforcement agency not to shut down social media because that's how they track and keep up with terrorist organizations and individuals. what is your opinion on that? doing more or less or leaving it alone, tissue of all of social media, how it's effective in tracking and recruiting of terrorists to join isil, should we be proactive to shut that network down legally, of course, or do as law enforcement says we want to watch this to see where these guys are going. what's your opinion on that, ambassador and then i'll get mr. warrick and then that will be it. >> the issue of freedom of the internet, freedom of expression on the internet goes well beyond my responsibilities. we clearly watch very closely the use of the internet by these

organizations. we have a dialogue with the service providers. in cases where the posts that are being used, used on social media accounts is perhaps, in our view contrary to the terms of service. so, again, this is a complex question, it's a complicated question, goes well beyond my responsibilities. certainly any use of the internet for illegal activities such as fundraising or incitement to violence is something we would take strong legal action against. but there are gray areas here of the use of massacre net and social media, and the question is how one responds to that. i think we also believe that if you shut down one site you shut down one account, the chances of that popping back up somewhere else are quite high and quite great. so the other tool we use is counter messaging ourselves through the center for strategic counterterrorism communications

that was mentioned earlier, we try to put out counter messaging on social immediate area on the internet to push back in that way rather than simply try to take down the message they are putting out. >> mr. warrick, i'll let you put that in writing since we're out of time. i have to recognize the ranking member, mr. sherman for his five minutes. >> thank you. first let me clarify a statement in made towards the end of my opening statement. the state department has thousands of experts in american law. you don't particularly need more. we also have experts in international law. those experts help us persuade western countries of the righteousness of our positions. i have been pushing on the state department for, i think the better part of a year, to hire an expert in islamic law. and the response i get is, well we hope islamic jurists will issue statements that are

helpful to us and we'll just call them and ask them to come up with something on their own, or now and then he'll call-up a professor of islamic law, we don't need to hire anybody. i analogize that if you were trying to get an american jurist. would you say my cause is just please come up with the legal theories that support me. would you rely on hiring advice from any professor you can get on a phone or hire somebody who is an expert in american law to get an american jurist to issue a statement helpful to you? it is incredibly important that we get islamic scholars, experts and jurists to issue rulings adverse toy isis and favorable to the united states. it is about time that the state

department hire its first islamic legal expert to work full time on that. maybe a couple. and it's time that at least somebody be hired at the state department not because they went to a fancy american school, or because they did well on the foreign service exam. mr. ambassador, security council resolution 2178 requires u.n. members to criminalize those who go to syria and iraq to fight with the extremists. have european allies particularly visa waiver countries complied with that? >> if i may just comment briefly on your first point on islamic lawyers, islamic scholars. >> can i ask the ambassador to move the mic closer to him. >> i have limited time so i'll ask you to address my question

first. about resolution 2178 from the security council. >> we having worked with our partners in our sbaes in europe and elsewhere to engage with these countries on implementing 2178. >> can you provide for the record a list of which visa waiver countries are in compliance, which have promised to become in compliance and which are not in compliance that have no very serious promise to us? >> we've had two months since the resolution was passed. >> i'm just asking for a chart. >> i would be happy to provide a list of countries. >> their legislative process may be slow but i know your staff will be fast and get a chart for our record and we'll identify those countries. likewise if you can provide a chart of islamic, particularly arab states, five the gentleman from illinois identified as the majorer senders of foreign fighters whether they have passed laws that would

criminalize going to syria or iraq and fighting with al nustra or isis. >> i would be happy to do that. >> i take it from your answer we're doing everything we can to push our friends in the arab world and europe -- >> there are countries that have already in place as we do laws that prohibit criminalized -- >> are there any countries that have said no we'll just let these folks come back and monitor them. >> no country has taken such a cavalier attitude. there are countries that do believe that some of the fighters who come back have been disillusioned by their participation. have not paid in terrorist activities while in syria. they believe those fighters should be monitored rather than incarcerated. those are decisions those countries make. >> is that in compliance with

u.n. security council resolution 2178, that view? >> i'm not a lawyer myself. i have to take a look at that issue. there are different approaches how you deal with returning fighters particularly ones who have not carried out any evidence -- >> look i don't care if you're peeling potatoes in the mess, if you're part of the isis army you belong in prison until this war against islamic extremism is over. that's what security council resolution 2178 says. i hope your chart, you'll add to your chart a list of those countries that have told us that we do not think we should criminalize those of our citizens and residents who went to isis, joined the army but say they didn't actually kill anybody. >> also an issue, sir, of being able to prove in a court of law this kind of activity. >> that's fine. >> people on the ground in syria to come to a courtroom to testify. so, again, i think our partners

use different tools depending on what they know about a particular individual in the case. that's all i could say. >> chair recognizes the gentlelady from florida. >> thank you so much, mr. chairman. isil's reach into the united states has been documented. we also know that isil is known to be tech savvy, as we've discussed, used social media tools to its advantage to help recruit foreign fighters to its cause and we've seen isil graffiti here in d.c. mr. warrick, you testified that dhs is quote, unaware of any specific credible threat to the u.s. homeland from isil, end quote and following up on what mr. wilson said in his opening statement, on sunday dhs and fbi

issued a joint bulletin urging our service members to scrub their social media accounts, to use caution with their posts. is there a specific threat to our service men and women most of whom who are stagttioned her in america. isil is known to fund its operations from a variety of sources including illicit oil station, extortion, organized crime, donations from outside sources. we've seen terrorist groups like hezbollah fund their terror activities through the sale of drugs, often from sources in the western hemisphere. what are we doing to target isil's funding? what kind of isil collaboration with drug cartels is there any evidence of that, especially here in our hemisphere and if so what are we doing fight this? and lastly on our allies, in order to defeat isil, we're going to need full cooperation

with our coalition partners especially those from the middle east. the ministers of the gcc the gulf cooperation council has scheduled multiple meetings to discuss the ongoing threat of isil and possible ways to fight this terrorist entity and just yesterday, bahrain foreign ministers announced the gulf states are setting up a joint military command based in saudi arabia to not only counter the isil threat but the threat from iran as well. so i'll ask in what ways are we work with the gulf nations toing fight this radical islam ideology and is this joint command a signal that they my be willing to put boots on the ground in syria? >> thank you very much, madam chairman. let me start on that and then obviously ambassador bradtke will have something to say. on the isil funding issue that question actually probably would

be best addressed to the treasury department under secretary cohen and assistant secretary glazer are working very intensively in trying to address the isil funding issue. dhs play as maul role in that in terms of criminal investigations. >> is there a specific threat -- >> i'm working backwards. on that one -- let me go back to what we said over the weekend. there were statements, public statements by isil in september to the effect of calls for attacks against u.s. service members, u.s. officials and members of the intelligence community. we are not aware of any specific threat saying that at a particular time there would be an attack on a particular service member, but we really do want to be able to have members of the state and local law enforcement and members of the

military community and their families take certain reasonable precautions to further reduce the risk of any types of events taking place. we're very mindful of the techniques of the use of social media that you allege -- that you described and that isil is able to use and obviously they are able to survey social media as well -- >> thank you. ambassador, on the issue of our allies, are they fighting back this radical islam ideology and do you have any info about whether they are willing to put boots on the ground in syria? >> well, we have a very close partnership with the countries in the gulf. they are members of this coalition that i mentioned of 60 countries. general allen has worked to put together. a number of them have carried out air strikes in iraq. we're getting that kind of

assistance from them. we're working closely with them to cut off funding. i was in kuwait and qatar over the summer. qatar has just pass ad new law on private charities which will be more effective in regulating the flow of funding in cases where individuals contribute money thinking it's going a humanitarian cause and ended up to a terrorist organization. they are taking steps in that regard. they are working with us on the counter messaging front. there was a conference of kuwait that undersecretary went to. we talked about what we're doing on counter messaging. we're working through the center of strategic counterterrorism communications. a number of our partners in the gulf are interested in setting up similar operations perhaps or having a regionally based counter messaging brace. we have a close partnership. >> thank you my time is up. is the graffiti we've seen in

d.c. and other cities are those legitimate or do you think that they are not? >> that would be a question that i think would be better addressed either by fbi or domestic law enforcement. they could help you with that. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from florida mr. deutsch for five minutes. >> thank you. ambassador bradtke could you pick up where you left off on the message of counter messaging. can you speak in little more detail about the efforts that we're under taking, our friends from around the world sharing those efforts with us and how do we determine whether we're being successful and is there any evidence at this point that we are? >> let me same someone who has worked for a long time in the state department, united states government i find the center for strategic counterterrorism communications a very interesting and really unique

operation. it is an effort to push back in a very direct, very blunt forthright way, putting out some very tough messages on the internext inte intern internet, on social media. the kinds of things that are used putting on social media the atrocities that al qaeda and isil are carrying out so people can see the true nature of isil. they highlight fact that the main victims of isil are muslims, so that people understand that this is not a way of helping other muslims, that, in fact, these organizations are killing other muslims. they talk about what isil and other groups are doing to local populations, the sunni tribes, others. so, again, very powerful, very direct messages. some of the numbers in the last

period of time perhaps the last ten or 12 months they have done 25 videos. they've put out more than a 1,000 anti-isil posters or tweets. way we have some sense this is having an impact -- there's two ways. one you get a number of hits on the sites, the number of followers to the cscc's operations. the other way is the efforts by isil and these groups to take down the cscc's sites through hacking. so they are obviously worried that our message is getting out. they are obviously worried that enough, they actually want to take action to do something about it. other countries have been very interested in what we're doing. we've had a number of countries ranging from belgium and france to some of our north african partners that have come to visit the cscc's operations here in washington. we this conference in kuwait

where our partners in the gulf and other places are looking at whether they can do something similar. the european union is interested in trying to get its own counter messaging up and running. the eu is providing funding for the uk which has a counter messaging program to try to explain and share its experience with other eu member states. so, again, this whole area of counter messaging is very active, and my own sense is while we can't know for sure whether some individual has seen something on our website and has said that's the true nature of isil and i won't go to syria, but the fact that we get hits on the site, the fact that the site has been subject of hacking by these groups indicates to me that there's some effectiveness. >> can you share how many times videos have been viewed, how many hits there have been either on the posts, how many tweets

have been viewed? >> i would be happy to get that for the record. >> okay. and is there -- you said that the uk has a center. the work that we're doing meant strictly -- who are we to discussion on? clearly i imagine the message would be slightly different, targeting an australian audience than a belgium audience or america. >> that's why we think it's important other countries develop a capability. the cscc is doing this in its efforts in three languages. arabic, of course. erdu because of its messaging that goes beyond the syrian/iraq front. english as well. fwlish is a most recent development. as you say there's a need for other, for example, french we know the fighters from belgium,

france and that's why we think it's important that other countries also develop this capability. >> in my remaining seconds, mr. warrick, this may be something you may be able to respond to in your discussions with some of my colleagues, if not if you could respond in writing after, your testimony about the efforts by the secretary to increase the pre-clearance at overseas airports, i would very much like to know what the plan is, what airports we've targeted by when and how many we've already put in place today. >> thank you very much. actually that's a question we would prefer not to address in an open session. you'll appreciate the sensitivity not just in terms of discussions with foreign partners but we have no intention ever laying out a road map of where we are not because of what, effect that might have on the thinking of our adversaries. in a closed setting we can get someone who has a great deal more information on that.

>> i was only following up on countries identified in your testimony. >> it's a public matter and people see our officers in their uniforms. >> okay. thank you. i yield back. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from south carolina mr. wilson. >> thank you. thank you for this joint subcommittee hearing today. this is very important. both of your testimony has been very enlightening. i'm very concerned. the american people need to know as the president i believe is ignoring the jihadist threat that abc news of all people monday night reported the day before the u.s. launched its biggest air blitz against the terrorist group in iraq and syria in late september, isis spokesman called upon muslims in the u.s. and europe to attack members of the military. the direct quote, do not ask for anyone's advice and do not seek

anyone's verdict. kill the believer. whether he is a civilian or military for they have the same ruling. both of them are disbelievers. both of them are considered to be waging war. end of quote. he said in an audio speech posted online on september 21st. mr. warrick, what is your current threat assessment of an attack by domestic jihadists or foreign fighters on the u.s. homeland? >> thank you very much. that statement was posted in social media by a foreign -- by a foreign participant attributing it to him. he was not in the homeland when the statement was made but intending that his message reach out to prospective sympathizers here in the united states. there are obviously a number of things that dhs tries to do to

prevent people from becoming radicalized to violence. this is through the community efforts which i addressed in my testimony. in addition there are sorry steps that other law enforcement organizations like the fbi do in terms of trying to track activity and where there are steps especially towards foreign travel that prospective sympathizers make and gets on the radar screen of people at dhs. there are a number of measures to address people who might be sympathetic to that kind of radicalizing messaging snoom the grotesque nature of that statement along with people carrying signs in english in say teheran, death to israel, death to america, the creed of hamas, the american people need to know and that is that we very well death more than you value life. this is serious.

and i'm just very concerned that the president is focused on other items, i.e. congressional campaigns and has been missing the danger. based on the bulletin that was issued by dhs and fbi regarding soldiers online media accounts, what level of danger do you feel for our military and our military families? >> as i said there's no specific credible threat targeting specific people in a specific place but we think it's appropriate that people are prudent. and that social media postings should not describe military operational activities, nor should they describe law enforcement activities or other measures. this is something that we just caution people in our own organization and indeed in our military to be prudent in what

they post on social media. but for people who take those reasonable steps, it's obviously very difficult for foreign fighters in syria to get to the united states and my department is working to make it even harder for that to happen. so, what we really do is encourage people to exercise reasonable prudence and then, obviously, there's the support that we need from communities to help be on the alert for things that they may notice on a local level before we in the federal government would ever see anything. >> with this warning by the fbi and department of homeland security, are you aware of any steps that the department of defense has taken to alert again service members, military families, veterans to what threats may be? >> the department of defense we know has guidance on that but, obviously, i leave to it them to

describe their guidance to service members about social media postings. we just felt it was prudent for us to remind people that this is a time in which they should be prudent in measures about any activities or postings they may have. but the department of defense has a number of procedures and rulings that are in place and, obviously, can you get that information from them. >> thank you very much. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from virginia, mr. connolly for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ambassador bradtke, i was looking at your long and distinguished record of service to your country in the state department. but allow me without being disrespectful to mr. sherman's question, do you speak arabic? i'm sorry i can't hear without the microphone.

>> do you have any expertise in the arab world. >> i've traveled with secretary christopher extensively -- >> you were never assigned to the region. >> no. >> so, is it not true that most of the foreign fighters recruited by or attracted to isil in syria come roughly from a handful of countries mostly arab countries, is that not true? >> many of the foreign fighters come from north africa, from arab countries that's correct. >> maybe you do or don't subscribe toy think the premise behind mr. sherman's questions but as the united states moves forward it stems me that the state department needs be promoting leadership from within that has particular focus on this region since that's what we're dealing with.

and i mean that without, with no disrespect because sometimes somebody can function very well without any expertise in a particular subject matter because their organizational skills, presumably, that's true about you. but i do think, mr. sherman has a point that longer term the united states has got to get serious about this region and expertise in this region if we're going to address the challenges we face. let me ask a question. in looking at your seven point here's what we're doing i didn't see a mention of strengthening our relationship with the kurdish community which seems to be one of the military allies we got in the region and has a military capacity but needs be reinforced. why not? why didn't you talk about that. >> if you will permit me, mr. connolly, i do want to say a word or two -- >> i have to ask you to move

closer to the mic. it's very hard to hear you. >> i would like to say a word or two about your initial comments. i was happily retired, mr. connolly. >> i saw that. >> was asked by senior officials by the state department to come back and take this job. i was asked to take this job not because of my expertise in arabic or countries in the middle east. i was asked to take this job because there was a belief that in 40 years of working for the state department i was able to deal with a wide variety of countries, that i could conduct dialogues with those countries on an effective basis and that i could draw on the many experts in the state department who are experts on those part of the world. this is not an effort i under take by myself. i have support of many people within the department of state. i have found as i've traveled that i don't think the fact that i don't speak arabic has been a

hindrance. i've had meetings with leaders of islamic communities and fact i'm not an expert on islam has not prevented for example when i met the leader of the islamic community, i had a good discussion with him about steps they could take to put out the word about isil, about isil's not being a representative of islamic values. i don't feel the discussion i had with him was in any way hindered. >> i honor your career and i know you came back but i think mr. sherman has a point long term. this region is unraveling. it is a long term challenge, if not threat to us and to the west. it is profoundly disturbing what's happening and we have to have expertise in the region. that's not a comment about you.

>> there's no disagreement. there's really brilliant new generation diplomats who are coming up through the ranks. >> i repeat i honor you for your service. i meant norespect at all. i was trying to reinforce his point. now i beg you to address the kurdish question because we're running out of time. >> the reason i didn't get more deeply into that is that it's not in my area of partner engagement. one of the lines of effort that general allen is pursuing. >> i would hope we have another round we can get into sort of what has worked because i am troubled sometimes by some of the conversation we're having when they return to a given country what do we do? it almost sounds like deprogramming from a cult and i don't think that's going to work

given the numbers. and so i would be interested in hearing from both of our witnesses about are there examples of things that have worked in a preventing people from going and unfortunately if we fail on that, helping to reintegrate them in a genuine successful way when and if they come back. thank you, mr. chairman. i know my time super. >> chair recognizes is gentleman from california, colonel cook. >> thank you, mr. chair. ambassador, i wanted to ask you about the role of hamas and the muslim brotherhood in terms of perhaps facilitating the information on people recruitment and some of the smuggling activities, if you had any insight at all from a

diplomatic standpoint. >> specifically i do not, sir, no. >> no personal feelings on that in terms of enabling them? >> i don't have any basis on which to give you a good answer, sir. >> okay. let me switch gears a little bit. and the chairman was talking about the relationship with turkey. and a number of us on this committee and house armed services committee are very, very nervous about turkey and its reluctance to have strike aircraft be flown from the base and another base we have in qatar and it's almost like we're giving them a free pass, those two countries there that we're very, very nervous about their maybe activities in supporting

isis and some of the other -- do you have any comments at all about the turkish situation in terms of being somewhat of a squishy ally in my opinion a member of nato and everything else and yet i just don't trust them. >> as i said earlier i think turkey is a very important part mother ours. >> are we giving them a free pass on this? >> we just had vice president biden in turkey, general allen visited we had an ongoing discussion with turkey what we can do on the border between turkey and syria. those discussions are going on. at this point that's all i can say. >> i understand that. every time the question comes up of smuggling and black market activities and who is buying the oil and everything, couple of countries come up and it's like

they get a free pass. and sooner or later we're -- is there anybody that's re-evaluating who are our true allies and who aren't and it's almost like it's the military stockholm syndrome because we have two bases in those countries and we don't pressure them. that's basically what i'm asking. are they getting a bit of a free pass on this? >> i would not say they are getting a free pass. >> okay. >> let me switch gears. >> we've had a long and open dialogue with them and those discussions about what you were talking about, those discussions continue and we'll have to see where that goes. >> okay. we talked about a lot of these foreign fighters coming through turkey. how about through some of the other areas, turkey is one area. do they also come through -- i

notice there's a large preponderance of the group from jordan. is it from these refugee camps where they are being recruited? >> the numbers of foreign fighters coming from other countries are much smaller than turkey. turkey is the primary transit point. iraq, jordan, lebanon have lesser numbers. and we, obviously, in the case of iraq and jordan their efforts to curb the flow of foreign fighters. lebanon as well although that's somewhat more difficult situation. it goes beyond what i could talk about in this session as well. >> all right. the last question i had was in in regards to those coming from russia and i suspect this relates to chechnya. is russia facilitating their leaving the country and going to another area simply because of the problems that they are going to cause internally in russia?

>> i'm not aware of any evidence they are facilitating the chechnya fighters to leave russia. >> thank you. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. higgins. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think we need to forget for a moment where these foreign fighters are coming and ask the fundamental question that we're not asking which is why are they coming. isis their most potent recruitment tool is momentum, success. conquest of territory covering large portion of syria and iraq. isis' ability to sustain their momentum in their territorial conquest will determine their future recruitment from the region and from the west. why is isis been so effective in their territorial taking strategy? because there's been no effective counter veiling force to confront them.

you know, the united states spent $26 billion building up an iraqi army and the first test was the iraqi army ran. not only did we not put up a front to isis but also they took our weaponry that we paid for over many, many years. so the "new york times" reported this morning that there was a major deal between the abadi government in baghdad and the kurdish leadership in erbil and that was a permanent, long term deal to provide 17% of the national budget to the kurdish region. in addition, a billion dollars to pay important the salaries and weapons for the pashmerga. it's estimated to be between 250

and 357 fighters. they are experienced. they are proven allies of the united states. they helped capture saddam hussein. isis is estimated to be between 31,000 and 41,000 fighters. this seems to be a major change in the dynamic as it relates to iraq's ability to push back isis. i don't know if you caught the news of this deal this morning, but i would like you to comment on it because i think unless and until you can break the momentum of isis, doesn't matter wherefore rent fighters are coming from. the fact that they are come cigarette most important and the

success, the momentum that has been sustained by isis over a long period of time is the only reason, is the only reason you have foreign fighters coming to iraq and to syria to fight regardless of where they are coming from. so i think this is a major break through and i would like to hear your comments on how this changes the dynamic in the region. >> that question would take me well beyond my responsibilities, mr. higgins, and i think it's better addressed to my colleagues in our near eastern bureau who are the experts in this area. i gather there will be a subsequent hearing where they will testify. again i'm not an expert on the kurds or the iraq situation. i want to come back to the point you make clearly the perceived success of isis is why some people have been attracted to fight for them. the situation in syria itself has been a powerful magnet -- >> what does isis depict on

social media? their success in taking over critical territory. so, if you forget about the median, if you take away the fundamental, you know, recruitment, the emphasis, the success of isis, they don't really have a story to tell because a lot of this is about the narrative. i interrupted you. continue. >> i was agreeing with you that that's one very important element and why people are attracted to fight for isis but there are other factors as well. there is the situation in syria itself where isis al nustra have made powerful use of the idea that they are defending sunnis inside syria. again, that's something we try to push back against. there are other factors ranging from the idea in some cases of economics.

i've been in countries where, where the fighters from those countries, the primary motivation is actually the idea that they can escape situations. >> let me claim back my time and respectfully ambassador, because it's a very important point that's being missed and that is combatting, confronting effectively isis and iraq helps us and the free syrian army contorontos isis in syria. >> i don't think there's any disagreement on that point, sir. >> i yield back. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. santos for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ambassador, has the state department cancelled the passports of any u.s. citizens who have joined terrorist groups in syria and iraq? >> to my knowledge the state department has not cancelled any passports.

>> why is that? we had secretary kerry here a couple of months ago he said he has authority under existing law, i think he's right about that, some of our allies have taken steps to cancel passports. what's the reasoning behind not doing that. i ask that the director of fbi was on "60 minutes" several weeks ago, maybe a couple of months ago by now and he was asked about people we identified as joining isis or joining the al nustra front and could they come back to the united states. he said if they have a valid passport they are entitled to return. a lot of my constituents were floored by that. they say you go and choose jihad, leave america behind, waging jihad over there, you now have an entitlement to come back simply because you have a valid passport and we won't do much i guess they said they would track them. that struck me and a lot of my constituents insufficient. how do you handle this. >> secretary kerry said he does have the authority to revoke

passports and this is something we would only do in relatively rare and unique circumstances because of the importance for average americans of the freedom to travel. we would only do -- >> obviously isis fighter would be an extreme circumstance if they are cutting off americans heads. >> we would only do i want also in consultation with law enforcement authorities. and we have not yet had any request from law enforcement authorities to cancel passports of isis or foreign fighters. so, again, we have the authority. it is one tool. we do have other tools to use as well in this regard. we only do it in consultation. >> mr. warrick, so if a known terrorist comes back to the united states they are quote being tracked by law enforcement what does that entail and how can we be sure that they will not commit a lone wolf attack, for example? >> congressman, we have

indications someone on the no-fly is listed trying to fly back to the united states, we would deny them boarding if we have the authority to do so or recommend even to a foreign government that they or the airline deny such a person a right to get on an airplane to fly to the united states. if somebody shows up at the united states, and there's indications that that person has been a foreign fighter in syria it would be referred to the fbi. and then it's a matter for law enforcement. we would have the ability at the boarder to ask any questions that were necessary and appropriate. we would have the ability and the authority to inspect their luggage, inspect their personal possession in order to determine whether they were or were not a foreign fighter fighting with isil in syria. anything like this is taken extremely seriously, i can assure you. the notion we'll let somebody in

the united states who is a foreign fighter just to have them monitored, sir, that's not what we're working on. >> i think his comment, maybe he didn't express himself well. how would -- what happened with the florida u.s. citizen who went over, trained with al nustra front in syria and then test test ack in syria. he didn't have any intelligence on him, is that how he was able to do that go over and train with al nustra and come back here. >> the tens he had been fighting with isil was only developed after he had departed. and certainly obviously, you know, it's unfortunate he chose the path that he did. had he come back into the united states there would have been

measures taken in his specific case based on the status that he had at the time we learned that he had joined isil. >> ambassador, my final question is, a couple of weeks ago it was reported in the "wall street journal" that the president wrote a personal letter to the ayatollah in iran, stressing, according to the article that there were some mutual interests between the united states and iran with respect to fighting isis in iraq. and just as somebody who served in iraq and saw, you know, iran and iranian backed terror groups they killed hundreds of u.s. service members so that was something that i flinched at. but let me ask you, do we consider the iranians to be a partner of any sort in terms of fighting isis, even if justin baghdad area or throughout the region? >> i can say from my point of view i don't consider iranians to be partners in the efforts that were under taken.

>> thank you. i yield back. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank to you the witnesses. ambassador, could you talk for a moment about what the impact is of foreign fighters, how they are being used? are they engaged in actual italy military conflict, suicide bombings or being used in propaganda videos. what actually is the impact of foreign fighters and magnitude of the presence of nos fighters relative to the indigenous people. >> some of this is drawn from the work that academic experts are doing, some is from the analysis from inside the u.s. government. the first distinction i would make is that isil has been more willing to take on foreign

fighters. al nustra which is the al qaeda affiliate has been somewhat less willing, more selective, more careful about the foreign fighters. you have that distinction. foreign fighters have been used in a variety of ways. this is a little bit different than the foreign fighters in the case of afghanistan and iraq. very typically the primary use was suicide fighters. now there's a perception although some still use suicide bombers. they are more valuable, they have skills they can use whether it's skills using social media, whether it's skills of repair and maintenance of equipment, whether it's medical and other skills i think they are being put to use in those areas as well as being used as fighters themselves and i'm talking here about isil. the other very disturbing thing that we've seen and academics have, peter newman has done some

good analysis of foreign fighters, he has concluded that foreign fighters are often used for some of the most distasteful if that's the right word things that isil is doing. if you noticed, for example the beheading, these are apparently being carried out by someone with a british accideent, a uk person. the analysis that peter newman has of this is because foreign fighters come to syria they have no real attachment, they don't speak arabic, they are anxious to impress isil, anxious to impress the organizations and they are willing to do things that the local recruits will not do, so we've seen that which i think is a very disturbing thing about the foreign fighters. >> thank you. i know some prior colleague referenced u.n. resolution 2178. there was not only the creation avenue policy but a set of

protocols and framework that was created as a result of that. is that a successful and useful tool? what's the status of that? that imposes an obligation on countries to under take serious efforts to prevents the ability of foreign fight towers transit. what's the currents status of that? >> as i was saying earlier, 2178 is a legally-binding resolution which requires countries to criminalize a variety of activities related to foreign fighters including ones they have not perhaps previously criminalized. i just came back from indonesia where their counterterrorism law criminalized domestic terrorism because they never had a problem of people carrying out terrorist acts outside. now they are looking at that law to deal with terrorists going to training camps outside of indonesia. countries are very much looking at that resolution and trying to see where the gaps in their

legislation are. >> i this it would be useful for us to have a sense of where countries are in meeting those obligations. >> identify committed to doing that. >> finally i want to turn to turkey. i know you have said that they are not complicit, though i think it's pretty clear they have not been an enthusiastic wonderful reliable partner in this effort. just last week there were several foreign fighters who traveled through turkey, so are they, in fact, assisting us both in sharing intelligence in counter -- in counterterrorism efforts to stop the flow on foreign fighters. you say they are an important partner. i think you recognize they have value if they act the right way. there are real questions about what they are actually doing on the ground with us. >> again, if you want a detailed analysis of exactly what our cooperation with the turks,

probably do that in a classified session. i would say the following, we have seen increase steps by turkey to cut off the flow of oil, to stop the philosophy foreign fighters, to get better control of their border and information sharing we have with the turks has been improved. >> thank you. i yield back, mr. chairman. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois. >> thank you, mr. chair hahn. again thank you for putting this together and to the witnesses thank you for being here. i appreciate it. let me just ask you both if you can just or whoever is better advised to answer this. i'm sure i wasn't here for part of the hearing i'm sure you explained it. explain to me briefly what is our policy in syria. what are we doing there? >> again, i'm not here as the administration spokesman. >> you are kind of the administration guy and i want says you're the partner engagement on syria. >> that's my area of responsibility. how we're working with partners

to deal with the foreign fighter problem. it's not to explain our set of policy. >> you've been briefed on our policy on syria otherwise you're in a -- >> our policy and i've give the one sentence answer is to bring about a political settlement which would provide syrian people an opportunity to have a democratic future without assad in power. >> okay. i like the i'll point out that, in fact, during the discussion of the red line, the infamous red line a year ago i was one of the vocal supporters of the need to enforce that red line, and there was a lot of discussion of an off-ramp for assad during that time period. let's give him money and send him somewhere else. let's get him out of government. it was the failure of enforcing that red line. i have not heard a proposal to get assad out of office. toppling him by force is not the best answer. it is what it is right now. so you do