[ captioning copyright national cable satellite corp., 2014 ] captioning performed by the national captioning institute, responsible for its caption content and accuracy. ncicap.org ] >> good evening, i'm the professor of the school of university.at the on behalf of the journalism

school and university, i want to all of you to what i think is an extraordinary and special event, especially for me personally. tonight we have the honor of here who h rosenfelt is an alumn of the journalism as well as the daily cow a long went on to enjoy career as an investigative reporter of the san francisco chronicle.d all those times i stayed in touch with seth all those years, 30 known him for at least years, going on 40 years. time, almost, at seth was involved in his own quest for the question going on hereally in berkeley in if 1960s when all place.events were taking and the result is this book, subversives. the fbi's war on student

radicals and reagan's rise to power. it's an extraordinary book and when i read it, finally, by the ay, i was waiting for years to read it and hearing about it. it's an extraordinary book because it's written primarily the perspective of the fbi. rarely hear in public and one that when we hear it, we're not sure what to think their documents. this book is based on 250,000 documents that i saw myself. we'll see some tonight. fbi u've never soon an document, you may be shocked but going see it. looking out here at the audience. how many people remember j. edgar hoover. e don't have do a lot of explaini

explaining about who we're talk on.ut and what was going we're going have a conversation, seth and i, and go through some minutes.aterial for 45 if we have time, we'll show you a short video at the end that's center for d by the reporting.ive and you know, i realize this heavy. very it's 504 pages long, a narrative, based on the documents. surprisingly easy read. until page to wait 505 of his volume to get a glance at what the daunting was that seth went trying to n he was put it together. about that rrative at page 505. to give you an idea of his i think, isnt here, you can look at their reviews. that says ly narrative nonfinkes at its best.

that's 250,000 documents. case you've forgotten or too oung to know, the 1960s were a template of the political rosenfeld ss, seth chronicles how the abyss formed, it's crucial to history. warning said the christian science monitor. and even "the wall street though they even were prepared to hear all kinds of things in their review, work provides a unusual insight on what happened in america. is going on. think we might have an example from my before we get done. we have a lot of ground to cover. a 45-minute t discussion and an equal amount of time for questions.

microphones in the audience. when you ask question, no speeches, please, and seth will signing books when we're done, afterwards. with a t, let me start question as i sit down, tell me, seth, what was going on and give us a sense of what this book is all about. much for that ry wonderful introduction. [ applause ] this book is a history of the activities concerning the university of california in the cold war and during the 60s. and the book tells that story by activities e fbi's in regard to three main characters.

mario savio, the leader of the movement, clark kerr, the president of the california who turned out the be in great dispute with mario savio and other students. then ronald reagan running for governor at this time and major mpus protests a issue in his campaign. who was at oddsed with kerr and savio. behind these events, the fbi was with these ved people and the university of alifornia and was secretly tampering with history trying to influence public policy behind the scenes. >> so why don't you give a little background. you start this quest? what got you going? you as a young

next door te living to me on hearst street. >> yes. >> innocent. the days.ere >> i got interested in this at berkeley in the late '70s. an editor for "the daily and my editor asked if i wanted to see some of the editor had at my gotten under the freedom of communication act. i knew the fbi had been elsewhere in hearings before the congress, a lot of information had come out. i knew berkeley had been a hot of student protests during the '60s. so i was very intrigued to know the fbi up to behind the scenes of berkeley. documents and consulted with lowell and other people about them. nd wrote several stories for "the daily cal" looking at the

fbi's activities involving the free speech movement and movement. but in researching these stories, i realized there was much more there. see there were many more fbi files that were yet to be released. finished those stories, submitted an expanded freedom of information act request that sought more information on 100 ifferent organizations and individuals requesting certain categories of records.

in berkeley, california, soviet ntelligence agencies were trying to get nuclear secrets through members of the communist bay area.he j. edgar hoover ordered a massive investigation into this effort to find out who the soviet spies were. but what you see in the ocuments is that in the years following that, the fbi veered from this very important national security mission. and instead came to focus on weressors and students who

involved in dissent. the fbi went beyond gathering information and tried to get professors deemed too radical fired from the university of california. -- because in reading their book, they did using wiretaps, they did pick up people in oakland, for instance, ho were conspiring to get secrets? >> yes. this is true. did find that espionage in berkeley directed the nuclear said, they were very important national security ission, one that the fbi properly should be doing. but the files make it abundantly veered from e fbi that mission and came to focus on people involved in first activities and lawful dissent. investigation.eir they used surveillances, they used electronic surveillance, informers, they

developed informers, ane formant informants. the ke it clear, what's difference between an informer informant.ngo and an >> a term of art. would be anyone who has a more formal relationship with the fbi who was probably cases would be paid but not necessarily who was somebody that the fbi believed in gathering information on political organizations. > so, the most startling part of your book, really, is to me about ronald reagan, having covered ronald reagan, was to see documents reagan is an d informer, not an informant, but an informer. start? that

maybe you can show us how you could determine that? >> that began in hollywood in world war ii. agents knocked on ronald reagan's door and told there were communists liberal groups he was involved in. is the fbi n wrote agents opened my eyes to a good many things. failed to show is what they hinted about. active gan became an informer in hollywood. he provided information about guild, and in hooverent year, j. edgar repaid temperature favors by giving reagan personal and help even though it was beyond the fbi's jurisdiction to to do so. one document.

about reagan and the fbi. >> can you read it out there? >> no. >> can't read it. i'll summarize it. i'll go to the pertinent part. is a document from august , 1947, a report on the fbi's investigation to alleged communism in holly wootd. one of the areas was the of the unions in hollywood. you can see the index or table and here is the screen actors' guild. fast forward to -- is hat this document says two fbi agents interviewed

wyman nt reagan and jane in their home. the dent ray gab was president of the guild. and jane had been active in the guild. questioned in order they might further investigation regarding the activities of some members of the guild they suspected were carrying out party work. on to say thates reagan advised they had 12 fficers, provided background information, and names names. revere,e people was ann a well-known actress. actress.ley, another he claims on all questions of policy, they confront the guild, follow the communist party line. morley do not appear

to be particularly close. arisesen ever an occasion necessitating the appointment of some member to a committee or to the two cliques they had invariably nominate or same individuals. reagan and wyman go on to list other, alexander fox, crow man, lva, hume orothy tree, howie chamberlain and celina royal. larry parks.ns this document struck me for several reasons. times said several including in his memoir that he at r pointed the finger anybody.

you can see here he quite clearly secretly did that. and are other documents the scantiest of evidence. and i believe that this information shows a different reagan, different from popular easy going president who sort of takes a kind liviu people. >> yes. >> you see reagan here naming people who are his opponents in guild. and he's, of course, benefitting personally by bringing his to the attention of the fbi. what's also significant, he offers no real evidence. seemed to they follow the communist party line. so -- >> he became a favorite of hoover's. he did. reagan is president of the screen actor's guild. his tenure, the fbi

had wide access to guild records on dozens of actors and actresses who had no idea that of their guild was making this information available to the fbi. hoover was . edgar suspicious of ronald reagan because he was involved in liberal groups. but the more reagan cooperated with the fbi's investigation, to trust oover came him. and certain documents say that fbi have what close and cooperative relationship. reagan. ear hoover paid >> he's not getting any money. >> no, no evidence that he was a paid informant or that he was under the control of the fbi. document suggests he was

operating not out of pecuniary out of personal and political motives. >> for this, he got favors. favors were interested. ye, one favor occurred in 1960, his then former wife jane wyman were concerned about maureen.est daughter, in washington, d.c., she was 19 years old. they had heard she was living married policeman. but rather call her up and ask they turned to the bi through a mutual friend and hoover personally authorized an of her romantic life even though he acknowledged that this is rds beyond the bureau's jurisdiction. posed as an r, one

insurance salesman and interviewed neighbors. he other interviewed the cleaning lady at the rooming house. a third agent talked to other olice officers about this officer. they confirmed that she was, in older iving with this married policeman and they furnished the information to the agreed to keep it secret. used this they information and how it helped their relationship with their daughter in any way. hen, in another ibt in 1965, received -- >> on the eve of him becoming governor. to runeagan was deciding for governor, reagan gets more personal help and political help edgar hoover, this time concerning his adoptive son, michael ray dwan. at this time had been investigating the crime family in phoenix where he

had a home were conducting surveillance. saw that michael reagan was hanging out with the son of benano, the mafia leader. agents wanted to interview ronald reagan about this. they thought maybe he heard information from their son that could help them with their investigation, which after high priority. j. edgar hoover interceded. to let the agents interview ronald reagan and instead ordered that they warn son reagan was hanging out with joe jr. nd one of the most interesting documents that i saw was a report that sum rises ronald this.n's reaction to to us.an show that let's see. you can't make this up.

this document is what the fbi calls a summary memorandum. summarizes other fbi documents. so, this is the serial number of original document and then what we have here is the summary that. and in my lawsuit under the freedom of information act, the bi claimed that the original documents have been destroyed. so this is all we have. what it says -- it says it letter.es the the letter states ronald reagan was advised by the special agent 1, 1965, concerning is son's association with joseph benano jr. in phoenix, arizona. e was most appreciative and stated he realized that such an association and actions on the son might well

jeopardize any political aspirations he might have. expressed concern for his son's behavior and reputation. telephoneted he would his son and tell him to disassociate himself gracefully which would er cause no trouble or speculation. he stated that the bureau's matter would be kept absolutely confidential. reagan commented it would be mproper to express his information in writing and expressed that the special agent onvey the great admiration he has for the director and the ureau and express thanks for the bureau's cooperation. 20 yearsocument is now

before he came in partnership fbi. the ronald reagan has defined himself politically as someone he should not be overly reliant on government, being payer dollars are but no n entitlements, help tion taking personal regarding his son and daughter. i should add going forward, reagan's relationship with the fbi became closer. when reagan became governor in one of the first things he did after taking and e was to phone the fbi request a briefing about student protests at berkeley and savio larly about mario and the free speech movement and president of the united states. members of the board

regis and hoover authorized that briefing as well. >> you have the coming together f the new governor of california and the director of the fbi. and from your book it appears will, e target, if you for whoever was clark kerr, the president of the united states. why clark kerr. fixated on een so it? long edgar hoover was curious about berkeley. and he had been concerned about professors, the professors who refused to sign a s andty oath in the late 40 early 50s. >> not the loyalty oath we all have to sign to wooshg here. no, this is a different loyalty oath. adopted loyalty oath

employees.niversity and in which the professors who fired and sign it and sued over it -- >> sued to get reinstated, you mean? they wanted reinstatement. and this particular loyalty oath unconstitutional. but hoover said they were subversives. and clark kerr? >> let me find one other first.nt here we go. >> put this a little further away from you. you. ank >> this document is dated october 16, 1958. and it's just after clark kerr has become president of the tatewide university of

california. and it sheds light on hoover's view of clark kerr. r. clark kerr has been inaugurated as the president of the university of berkeley, california and as a consequence, all eight campuses located in both northern and southern california. kerr has given the impression that he is a, quote, iberal, end quote in the educational field. he's no in sympathy with loyalty aths by state and university officials, and that he's also not in complete accord with the fact that various branches of state and local government must conduct security investigations of the individuals on the various the university of berkeley, california when they take classified contracts. background in mind,ackground i the following is brought to the merely n to the bureau,

for the investigation and the event that the bureau may inquiry concerning dr. kerr who at best is a highly ontroversial figure in california education. so that's 1958. and a few years later, there's document which even more expressed clark kerr -- j. edgar hoover's view of clark kerr. this one is dated march 20, 1961. it concerns a public housing fficial in los angeles and had been called to testify before the house on american activities committee and he had refused. to come to the campus and give a speech. certain people were unhappy about that.

we see on the back page hoover's handwriting and the characteristic jagged scrawl. thisites -- i'm opposed to crowd of bleeding hearts at berkeley using the fbi to get of the hook. i know kerr is no good and i "kreagan" who is the vice chancellor, i doubt kre action gan is. here was the head of the largest law enforcement agency say iing bluntly the head of the leading university and one of the most imminent educators in was rot on the the core, essentially. this reflected the fbi's view of clark kerr. later intervened with

lyndon johnson when he as a ered clark kerr cabinet position. he did. the civil rights movement were very, very upset that the that sity had a rule prohibited them from engaging in campus.l activity on to appreciate how upset they were, you have to understand summer, mario ous savio and other students had helping to issippi register blacks to vote that they had been attacked by the ku had risked their lives for something they believed passionately about and to berkeley to find ut they could not hand out a

leaflet on campus or collect a quarter for a civil rights group. or that matter, they couldn't hand out a leaf let for oldwater for president, the candidate that year and nominated a the cow palace in san francisco. students tried to negotiate with the university. the university refused. of the defiance, some students set up a card table in the main at administration building and handed out leaflets. short order, police cruiser pulled into the middle of the somebody arrested named jack weinberg who was behind the table. anywhere, y could go students began to sit down around the police car and soon witha was fill ed students sitting around the police car and they held a sit movement.e free speech

the fsm went on to stage a tried to protests, negotiate with the university. ultimately tried to put on what sit-in in the t nation's history more than -- people were arrested sitting in overnight at sproul hall. r5i gans revoked the rule admitting it was an nfringement on free speech rights. when this happened, hoover who at kerr for suspicion convinced kerr was untrustworthy and unreliable. he believed clark kerr failed to rack down on the free speech movement.

and began to try to get him fired. do this was leaking information to the board of regents close to clark kerr with the idea that they could use the allegations against kerr to convince other regions to fire him. informers in ited the administration, the university administration. > one of the most astonishing things i found in my research was the extent to which the fbi in university affairs over a long period of time and the extent to which the informers at every level of the campus community rom student activists to the board.to a he failed. said as long as

clark wn was governor, kent would remain as president. other fbi over and officials viewed this as a breath of fresh air. an ally eved they had in the governor's mansion and closely with ronald reagan to crack down on student protesters and radical professors. >> so what happened? >> the document shows over the following years, what happened first thing reagan does after he's elected is to hone the fbi and request this briefing which hoover personally authorize authorizes. two weeks later, the first board board ofs meeting, the regents votes to fire clark kerr. power shifted because reagan was now a member and he made several appointments to it. the fbi documents that

was released indicates that the aware of ers were information that ronald reagan had at the time. and the flowing months and documents show that the fbi continued to corroborate secretly provide him with reports on certain professors and students with the their first ing amendment activities. give us an idea of how many fbi agents -- what was going on here? the tib fib had an outpost? a permanent outpost, right? fbi's regional office was in san francisco. that was the san francisco field office. had a pretty arge what they called a satellite ency si, a office in oeakland. n the 1950s, they opened in

downtown berkeley which was the great bank building and today is building.fargo this is a sign that the fbi was focusing on events at the in ersity of california and particular, the first amendment activities. one way we know this is the with thegent in charge office. he provided me the personnel roster. t showed approximately 40% or 50% of agents were devoted to investigations andtigation s they investigated traditional for espionage. hoover was clear, he was ocusing on dissent at that

time. >> i wanted to move on if we can briefly. you discovered and expanded since the book came out the role informants, that is paid people operating at the fbi.tion of the one you develop in the book. you have documents in a you can means. what it >> i believe you're referring to an informant named richard aoki. well, the way i learned about aoki is one day i was interviewing a former fbi agent bernice threadgill. i met him in the course of doing he research, i had spent many hours with him in the period of months. and i -- this process where i documents to him and we would review them and iscuss them and i would take notes about this.

ne day i showed him records without any notice. and he noticed richard aoki's name. know that guy. he was my informant. this.surprised to hear but we talked more about it. obtained a ly i detail record tape he recorded statement about richard aoki. before so id of him began to research who he was. i read everything that i could him and i interviewed him too. 2007, i interviewed him twice on the telephone and tape recorded it with his permission. asked second interview, i him if he remembered a man named bernie threadgill.

his initial reaction was, who's that? said, well, isn't it true that you used to work for the fbi? and he said something like who said that? bernie id well threadgill told me that. he said, he did? we talked more. pressed him for a response of whether he worked for the fbi or not. denied it. ut as we talked, he said something else. he said people change. it's very complex. upon layer. so what i later reported this i included both the denial and the subsequent tatement that i thought was significant. but even at that point, i didn't think i had enough evidence to a story. aftere richard aoki passed away submitted a freedom

of information act request for him. nd all records on >> you can explain when you die, what happens? > when you die, legally speaking, you have a much diminished right to privacy. get more able to information. if i had submitted that request when he was alive, the fbi would released a single page. but in this case, he had passed away, the fbi released about 1800 pages or so. documents that was released identified him as t-two.nt this is november 16, 1967 report panther party. based on my experience in records and gone

the records, i consulted with another fbi agent, a man swearington who had served 25 years in the fbi and critic of j. edgar hoover, particularly of hoover's illegal break ins to the fbi failed to disclose one of the key pratt had beenst an fbi informant. swearington reviewed the same i did, and he concluded an informant. >> someone paid by the fbi for how many years? the records? point, we were examining whether he had been an of informant at the time

this particular document. tested his evidence and an hesis that aoki was informant looking for something that would contradict it. compared it to several case tudies to activists that were based on informants. based on this information that i reported in my book that richard oki had been an fbi informant this in a video at the center for investigative reporting. could key it up. you want to see a video later, show you what went on

with the video itself. why don't you go on with the narrative. >> i knew this information would be somewhat controversial is a very hard aoki revered figure within berkeley and also within the asian american activist community nationally. i expected people to be skeptical, i expected some debate. for some not prepared of the personal attacks that as a result of reporting that story. my motives were questioned. that i was sted involved in framing richard ao informant.an fbi for thated of evidence false charge. so it was a bit of a controversy this. obtained additional records after that story was prepared.

was the result of the lawsuit i had brought to force bring more information on richard aoki. the fbi took the position in ourt that it had no more files on aoki. after i submitted evidence and with the help of my reverlsed the court the fbi and said you have to make the records. ne of the documents was the document that identified richard aoki as t-2, that's what court to order more evidence, more documents released. pages of leased 221 aoki's informed fire and these additional records showed that been an fbi informant, a paid informant from 1961 through 1977.

his importance, the on-line one ofee the main reasons he has so much interest is the involvement with panther party? he met two students, huey newton and bobby seal. they became friendly with him. they went to richard aoki's in berkeley to talk about the black panther party and asked for guns. had a gun e collection. he had been to the army. and he agreed.o he gave him some of the first guns and fire arms training and weapons in early 1967. .here's no dispute about this

bobby seal wrote about it. confirmed in several interviews. ere was a situation that ichard aoki was promoting the black panthers with guns and training. he was a paid fbi informant. that i had nolear evidence that the fbi knew he was arming the panthers or that way.fbi was involved in any but this inex-capably raises a certain question. fbi know about this if anything and did the fbi have kind of involvement? becomes who are the subversive. was it j. edgar he was after or fbi himself subvert the

lived in?at they >> the fbi documents made clear edgar hoover's fbi was ubverting the constitution and bedrock american principles and joined in reagan hat process, contrary to his image. he pointed the finger at people. he did report people to the fbi ecause he had been involved in first amendment activities. question, who were the real subversives. >> i think with that, seth, thank you. [ applause ] you have any question, we i e microphones and people

see people walking around with the microphones. i see some out there. can you identify yourself? >> i did 150 people here. said the bedrock american principles checks and balances, you sued the anyone else sue the government? 6,000 years of people being screwed by the government and they haven't sued the government the -- what you call core american principles. why is that? >> why haven't they -- is the question why haven't they sue? >> don't they believe in checks balances? don't they believe that power corrupts? people sue the

government? >> i can tell you, suing the lot of trouble. time consuming, expensive, i'm assistanceo have the of pro bono attorneys who handled my cases for two decades. the first amendment project in oakland gave me help. stein, he's given me hope and the law office of tom steel case. ny years carried my >> you've had a donor or two. >> yes, and financial support foundations and from steve silverstein. grateful for that.

a major undertaking and may be the reason people don't do it. wei reflect on this one when talk about fbi, the documents, act reedom of information and the fact that we know this. it's also true that this is the i know the , brits -- you have a freedom of hasn't beenact that litigated in britain. this is an unusual experience to able do this, even though it's a pain in the ass. i'm steve jacobson. i don't know how anybody could elieve anything the fbi says with their record.

this revelation ant aoki could activists t day paranoid. aware, whatever. i went to a meeting with activists, including myself. and a lot of black panthers. to a tee, no one believes this. hey all feel you've been used by the fbi to discredit aoki. in other words, i'm not saying guilty. i'm saying you're used by the fbi. everybody believes that. saying to defend himself, that's all. to that.ppy to respond

times keeping f the records. i'm careful in my research. the steps i o you went through before i had enough vidence to report that richard aoki was an fbi informant. records werehe fbi i don't believe the fbi would create the creates, give them to me now in an effort to discredit richard aoki three years after he died. i'm aware that the fbi in some have framed people as fbi informants or placed a snitch them. on however, there's not a shred of evidence that's what happened here. nd the people who made that allegation have done so in an irresponsible way.

i think when this is over, they of to revise their version who richard aoki was. wilde.jack kerrs first i'm proud to say that i existed. would like to clarify something about the timeline on the aoki thing. in one of the san francisco articles, i believe, you said the first relationship his friendship with doug walter at berkeley high, i believe, in the context fbi tapping the phone of walter. billy

give something of a timeline as to when the fbi fist made contact with regard to doug and how it worked itself out chronologically. oug, as you know in 1961, was one of the people called before activitiesn american during the whole washing down the stairs operation. >> i spoke with doug walter by the way. picked up a conversation between dough aoki.r and richard they were fellow students in berkeley high in the mid and '50s.

asked if he would become an informant. the documents released were that.stent with they contained references to richard aoki associating with late '50s and they show he was approached at least 1961. and these documents, which the bi tried very hard to cover upturned out to have bernie threadgill's initials in the bottom of them. so they are consistent with what threadgill told me. in the essential ways. and what these documents show richard aoki 61, became active in various left wing groups, including the young

socialist alliance, then the socialist worker's party. vietnam day committee, the asian american political alliance, the third world strike. we mention md, the black panthers. so that's a rough chronology of with the fbi. >> started with him in the fbi in the late '60s. what happened according to the fbi records is that aoki -- we know this in the penalty, aoki enlisted in the army immediately upon graduating high school. according to the fbi records, he spoke with an army official and of his d some associations at berkeley high school. this army official then reported the fbi. then the fbi contacted aoki and informant.as an if that answers your

question. >> my name is dan spitzer. two brief terms of irony before the republicans have made ronald reagan as an icon of the great defender of freedom of expression. and private rights. he right wing and people being communist dupes? to ng to do the same thing you. and i regret that profoundly. you're an extraordinary researcher. the question i have also deals with the black panthers. the black panthers needed some books.th their editor was asked

to send a bookkeeper over. her name was betty van patton. the panthers were ooking the books and elaine brown, we now know through onderful works by the great african-american author hugh earson, adam, a former publisher of ramparts, excuse me, of mother jones was also there. the panthers at had her murdered. that if in ering researching your book, you came cross of any further evidence of the fbi being privy to that information. no. no i have not seen that. perspective, the information about reagan, the previous biographers including morris, gary wills and edwards say in their biographies

were frustrated by the few pages that the fbi had released about reagan. the heavy redactions in those documents. i believe it sheds light on reagan's politics and helps being a is turn from liberal in his early hollywood days to being a staunch the years thatin followed. i'm curious if you have an dea how large, how many in and around the organizations.

how extensive a network of people did they have working for them? dwroid have any idea? you a number, e but it was extensive. and informants egularly attended campus events. the front.uestion in >> i don't know a microphone. would like to say in response to the last dan spitz is the coming that the left has not rosenfeld.eth area ent of the bay community that is left did. general, eft in has not.it is, i don't think that's a fair comment. other question had to do with

richard aoki which i hasn't two weeks ago. is there any evidence that any rd aoki gave the fbi important information whatsoever about the panthers? he tell them anything? already know. anything they used in their -- >> did everybody hear the question? okay. aoki give n is did blacknformation about the panthers? unfortunately, the records aoki were redacted. the summaries of information i think deleted, which is an abuse under the freedom of act.rmation what he told ow him. e know the fbi viewed it as

extreme value, unique value, that information was released in these records. notes?e were >> there was one note by an fbi his informantport pay as income on his tax return. note that says informant income. tony plat.is first of all, seth, maybe in pagespect, taking the few out of your book that deal with -- dealt with richard aoki that your lead article with the book in retrospect maybe wasn't the best choice. that's not what happened. >> oh. >> i had two articles that came focusing the same time on ronald reagan being an fbi

informer. >> i didn't know. thank you for clarifying that. someone who did research and published about the fbi and at fbi records on a book that i've done on another academic. wasuld say the work you did thorough, careful, and there's no question that i think you made an accurate investigation i think we have to treat seriously the information you us with. i think there are many problems with the left reflecting about our history and our past and not wanting to deal with some aspects that might discredit us, want to hang our dirty laundry out for everybody to see. but in terms of passing on the our movement and what we were involved in, we have to look at that and scrutinize it denial come the kind of

that's around the richard aoki case going on now. y question is, there's an interesting piece in your book, say in graph where you reagan was talking to about setting up an fbi program in berkeley. his is before the school of technology was to be investigated and closed down. i have agents in my class. reports of informants and agents are in my fbi folder in 1969. eed -- ed if you followed up on d if you followed that lead, and what happened to the closing down of the school criminology. >> it's an interesting question. on dn't see information that. what struck me particularly interesting about reagan's 1966, that he n

school dedicated to fighting crime and subversion the midst of in his campaign was that j. edgar hoover had a publicly stated he would not get involved in any kind of political campaign. reagan a letter endorsed his idea for crime fighting academy and e would do it during the campaign. >> is there a possibility that loyal actist who was milking the fbi for information and manipulating them. question, the most shocking thing i heard you say tonight is that in the middle of war, j. edgar hoover can't just say fire clark kerr and everybody falls in line. were people who could

stand up to that pressure. i'm curious to know, i mean, pat everybody else how they managed this. >> as i staided, the fbi redacted the summary. we don't know what information provided but didn't provide. on't know that he was involved in any way that he knew he was arming the black panthers. that.t speculate on as a journalist, i don't want to speculate on that. wanted to report the facts i could determine. and with regard to hoover, i hink things are more complex even at the height of the cold war. hoover could not simply issue an edict and have somebody fired. there were layers of politics, agencies involved what the documents show the 1960s andt in

1965, hoover mounted a concerted to get clark kerr fired. this.ust me saying the fbi tried to withhold the information on the ground that he considered law enforcement. i challenged that in court and the court ruled that, no, this is not law enforcement. not law enforcement.

the evidence shows that the fbi was abusing its powers in an effort to get clark kent removed because the fbi disagreed with the politics and the campus policies. >> not everybody loved j. edgar hoover. >> i'm peter dale scott. i want to ask a question about collin telprose. but i have a comment for steve jacobson in the back. if there are 200 people together in the meeting, you can be certain that some of them were informants and if i was one of those informants, i would have attacked the idea that aoki -- that the fbi could have recruited aoki -- my question is about the bay area. i regret that i didn't read your book yet. a matter of personal privilege in a way. i was looking at the documents. i was interested in the one on the fair play for cuba committee. but there were copies distributed to other files and one of the files i remember -- i've not been able to locate it ince, was a file on the bay area institute which interested me because i helped to found that institute with france sherman. were only four of us in it. we were all academics. creation of the pacific news service which is now a new american media. were quite er there a few stories about other people who penetrated the anti-war in the -- in the -- in specifically.

whether it was berkeley police or who knows? about it y something in your book if it exists. secret program that hoover start in the 1960s in esponse to the supreme court decision. the u.s. supreme court reversed the convictions of the communist arty leaders on the grounds that it wasn't illegal just to be in the communist party. needed to show xhup nis members were actively overthrowing the government. this put a crimp in the began ations and he co-intel pro. secret operation aimed at in the disrupting and neutralizing people. on the first was focussed the communist party. the second one that started was on the socialist workers party. on the newnother one left. another one on white hate roups, and another one on what the fbi called black nationalist

hate groups. and in the files concerning the california, you did see that they were on savio beyond e fbi goes collecting information and using that information to try to isrupt and neutralize people like savio who were engaged in nonviolent, civil disobedience. hi, my name is sky. i have a question. involve in the occupy movement for a little while. and ere in berkeley oakland. i wanted to hear about any arallels you might see if you follow the occupied movement between what happen in the 1960s and 1970s and what happened now. or you see parallels

how they conduct themselves, what the uc has done now to things those kinds of from happening? just what we can learn from all this. >> there are some to occupy the movement from 1964, they were both ass movements, conducted openly protests against government policy. can see th cases, you the university as an institution reacting and trying to limit the protest. i think the best lesson that occupied people could learn from free speech movement is that organizations and activists can rotect themselves against infiltrators and disruption by open -- by operating openly and

nonviolently. that was the free speech movement's model. and perhaps there's something to be learned there. there's one other sub jeblth that hasn't come up yet. i would like to address that briefly. that's the freedom of information act. i've had the opportunity to do fbi records under six different presidential dministration, starting with jimmy carter. i've had the opportunity to see administrations respond to the foia. true that the s democrats are somewhat freedom of o the information act. improperlyi withholds withholds public information that should be released. and it's been personally disappointing to me that when president obama came to power, of the first things he did a memo in support

of the freedom of information act. he was very strong about this. memo never reached the fbi. this solves using taxpayer dollars. so it's very disappointing to me that. >> one comment about the past or the present. that if the fbi is focused on any community today, with s infiltrated informants, that it's instituted programs that are looking for behavior as opposed to evidence of crime it's the community in the united states. that's not affecting necessarily you here in this room, work unin the investigative reporting program here in berkeley. called the book terror factory.

thereally it's the story of fbi manufacturing terrorist in the islamic community nationally and which account for 98% of the cases. it's not happening here in berkeley that way. it's happening with other the country.n >> my name is gary aguilar. i'm very much an admirer of your work. for those of us who are concerned about privacy rights and about our right to a certain transparency, which i'm very despondent about with recommendations do you have to encourage this and to prevent the governor from continuing to escalate what appears to be a police state in this country. -- i would say

that today's fbi is very edgar hoover'sj. fbi. there's much more public oversight. there's much more congressional oversight. in jay edgar hoover's day, congressional oversight. and bob mueller is a very of the fbi rector than j. edgar hoover was. onetheless, the fbi like all agencies depends on an accommodation of secrecy and power to do its job. combination of secrecy and power poses inherent threats to democracy. a dangerous combination. incumbent on 's citizens and lawmakers to demand transparency and account about and that's probably the best way to make sure there is ransparency to be actively involved. >> i've a similar question on

foia. my name is ying li. i want to know what you think he prospects are for the redacted information in all of the foia documents. the most interesting information, the most vital released at at being some time in the future. >> you mean specifically in the aoki documents? >> no, no all of the redacted information. documents that have been redacted, there's more released.edacted than and i just wondered if anything n the original or subsequent foia law would allow 50 years years down e, 100 the line when everyone is dead. finally information to be released? >> right. there are rules on automatic eclassification that require records to be released. nd that has resulted in the release of much more information. but overclassification of ecords is a huge problem in

government. it has been for decades. it's very frustrating to -- to people who are trying to understand their history. j. edgar and 1960s, hoover's fbi was secretly involved in events in effect alter history. by tampering with people's first mendment rights, by leaking information, by shaping how the e view events at university. and all these decades later, you today's fbi, bi, ithholding information, public information from records which is in effect once again interfering with our history.ding of in effect shaping what we know our history.

a third year education student here. my question is if you have no ay to verify what richard aoki provided as an informant, what think he had in doing this and if it's possible he may have been doing it as a way to protect the organizations that he was a part of? >> right. well, i described the steps i my through to double check information. based on what i thought he went informant.an

details.don't know the some speculated he could have been a double agent, working oth sides of the fence, we don't know. >> was your life ever in danger? feel it?

>> only if a microphone fell on me. >> i wanted some clarification questions. when did you start the research on the activist movements? >> i started my research that led to this book in 1981. >> what year was it when you found out about richard aoki through your fbi agent, threadgill? >> sometime around 2002, roughly speaking? >> okay. so my question is how is it that in doing research, he's a large figure, prominent, here on the

berkeley campus and in general with student activism, how is it in such a large time span, you didn't -- i believe you talked to thread gill in 2007, 2002, so how is it that his name escaped your research for such a long time? of >> sure. he was well known in the 1960s st community in the and 1970s. but he was not well known outside of that community. early ly in late 2009, 2010 with the release of a "aoki" that called he started to get more prominent. nd again, earlier this year, when a biography of him was released. he became more well known beyond the activist community itself. nd there are actually many activists who i never heard of until i started doing my research and learned about them along the way. i'm a science journalist. my question goes to the -- it's so difficult to get any of the richard aoki and your question about we know that documents show that aok ishi

so my question was -- what did the fbi know. the redacting of so much nformation that they have information on, how on earth did you get to the information and what their own dealings. so their documents are obviously -- they're not going be revealing that information on themselves. so what other strategies do you reporter investigative to get that information. that's the next logical story working on we're it. so what you doing? explained, i used a methods.of read anything that was published about him. i filed freedom of information freedom of information act lawsuit. that ithese were methods used to conduct that research. >> what are you going do now? will i do now? >> are you going to get beyond

the redactions? >> going to try to use these same methods. imad and i'm with here.ogram and investigative reporting program. started to veer from the original mission. hat led it to veer from the original mission? what was it? did they suspect that this equals being a spy for a foreign country? did they come -- how did time?veer from that at the >> hoover was fixated on the communist party. he believed the communist party a threat to the united states. s the years went by, he legal definition

of subversive. one word -- >> do you have it? >> you can see it here. i have a hard copy of it. seth explains in his book, one of the things the fbi did was created a list of 15,000 people are to be rounded up in the event of a national emergency. nd they call it a security index. you get a security index card and you might also have what an agitator index card that went with it. not a reference to a washing machine. one here shows i was on the list, my freedom of information request from my file and on a of years went from being the second group to being lined they e third group and

final lip dropped it in 1975. ut in 1975, in the wake of congressional hearing, a lot as d, domestically, as far we know. >> next question. yes. yes, i've got the microphone here. know whether o it's possible whether you could from the ical jump place where the fbi provided the we pops. information.al did the fbi do stuff like this? is this a kind of tactic that ou could say, look, the fbi could do that, you know, arrange with one of their informants to provide weapons. >> yes, that did happen. read about it in the

reports of senator frank church's committee. these are the same reports from '70s. >> you would say that is a logical jump. would you suggest that we can behavior of the they would support to give guns to the black panthers be a reason would to crush them. >> no, i'm saying something more that.fic than we know richard aoki was a paid fbi informant at the time he black panthers and we know at the time j. edgar hoover the ntent on destroying black panthers. that's the context. but i also said we do not know had any he fbi involvement or even knew what richard aoki was doing. so it's a little more complicated. >> one more question.

>> over here. >> i heard you speak tonight and also on npr the other day and it reminded me of my life in the a -- was an re was awful lot of shooting of black disturbing that was and to hear what you had to have been fbi involvement having armed the to some of led these incredible assassinations. o i'm wondering if you're making any of these kinds of connections here? no, i'm not going that far. that i know, ort hich is that aoki was a paid informant at the time they armed the black panthers.

expensive reports and they did extensive reports this information and they nvolved trying to incite various groups against each other and in some cases that killed in people being but i don't know of any evidence of them supplying weapons directly in those reports to any group.ic >> like they do today? a white they did in they acist organization, did hide the weapon afterwards. but in the end, those people -- well, they were dismissed from the fbi then. i don't know if they supplied weapons. interested in s

seeing richard aoki's fbi senternt file, visit the for investigative reporting where we have posted the entire file. ifiles and seth is in it. you can hear the audio and the fbiith aoki agent, mr. threadgill. with that, seth, thank you very much. [ applause ]

>> welcome to all of you for this dialogue. i will ask you questions and you you darn well er please. president and mrs. bush, mrs. baker. honored to have you here as historic 23rd the fall of the f the of eastern opening europe. when did you feel certain that fall even if you didn't know when?