as you know, the revolution in syria started almost four years ago in march 2011. and there are really a lot of stories that deserve to be told about this revolution from a military perspective, from a political perspective, from a humanitarian perspective, from a socioeconomic perspective, and maybe from a religious sectarian perspective as well. unfortunately this is not the right forum to tell this interesting stories, because we are expected to focus on the role of military in combating terrorism. so i'll try just to give a syrian flavor of this topic. i lived in syria for more than two years. and i had a good habit during this time, every morning i would look at the map of syria and ask myself, what has changed. why.

and where are we going from here. last august 2014, i traveled from damascus to washington, d.c., with a fortune of maps and photos. i thought it might be a good idea to share with you ten out of them today. this is the first one. this reflects the situation in syria in summer 2013. we are talking about july/august, 2013. the red color refers to the areas controlled by the regime, and his militia supporting him, like hezbollah in syria, and so on and so forth. the green area referred to the areas controlled by the rebels. and then the black spots refers to the areas controlled by isis at that time.

so this map tells us two things actually. first of all, that the balance of power on the ground 15 months ago was almost 50/50. this is not the situation right now. this is an important thing to come back to. second, that at that time isis was very weak. very scattered. not controlling a lot of areas. the areas are not geographically connected, which is very important from a military point of view. and they were not in control of any major city in syria. this raised the question of not

whether to use the military in combating terrorism, but when to use it. had we started combating isis like 15, 16 months ago, it would have been much easier. unfortunately we are talking now about a war that is going to last with us for years and years. i think it was relatively easier at that time. if we look -- take a closer look at the two major cities in syria, one of which is the capital of damascus, this is the economic capital of syria. at the same time, july/august, 2013. it's also 50/50, and you can even say almost 60% were the rebels, 40% was the regime. and there isn't a single spot in black. this is completely different today. this is damascus. the southern front, which is the

most important one from a military point of view. almost 50/50, and there isn't a single black spot. no isis at all. so the main point -- the first point i'm trying to make here is that timing is very important in using military in combating terrorism. the second point i'd like to make here is how to use the military in combating terrorism. when the rebels in syria were controlling more than 50% of the country, and they started to lose it bit by bit, they went to the international community and they said, we are losing because of one reason. the regime has something that we

don't have, and we don't know how to face. which is called an air force. so please help us to neutralize this syrian air force in order to be able to continue fighting. they proposed something called a no-fly zone. and the answer they got from the international community, from the defense of syria, from what's called the london 11 group, is that we cannot do this.

first of all, it requires a resolution from the u.n. security council and we are not ready to face a confrontation with russia and disregard them. at the end of the day, the russians would not allow that in any case. and if we are going to do it unilaterally, it requires a lot of military investment. you need to destroy all the syrian air defense, so many things that the western allies are not ready to invest. so the answer of the rebels were, fine, let's forget about the no-fly zone. just provide us with manpower to defend ourselves against the syrian air defense. once more the answer was no, we cannot. because some of these manpowers can be smuggled to hamas, and be used against israel maybe. and some of it can be also smuggled to the terrorists, and be used against civilization. so it's very dangerous. and we are not ready to provide it. so we left them alone.

at that time, the small scattered black spots of isis started to grow. first in iraq, not in syria. because of the sectarian policies adopted by former iraqi foreign minister maliki, the sunnis tribes in the western part of iraq, they were desperate, looking for any partner to fight side by side with them against the iraqi army. because they used to call it al maliki army. because they don't think that it belongs to them, and they belong to it. it's the dominantly shaped army. so they wanted a partner.

they found isis ready to do the job. and this gave isis an access to the area in western iraq, where they were able to recruit a lot of fighters from the sunni tribes. and they were also able to control oil and small refineries. bit by bit, they were able to be self-financed. they also controlled this border between the two countries. and were able to get a lot of money from the crossings along this border. they managed to create a network of smuggling this oil to turkey, and to sell it there on the black market and gain millions of dollars. these millions of dollars enabled them to come back to syria, and talk to the desperate fighters of the free syrian army

and tell them, well, the international community is not helping you anymore. how much are you gaining a month? $2,000? 250? we're going to offer you six. so for a fighter in the free syria army, they started to think about it. and to ask isis, what's your ultimate goal? they never mentioned the caliphate or the islamic state all over the world, the target they are using now. they said the ultimate goal was double the salary in a month. many, many thousands of them accepted to move to fight side by side with isis. so my point here is, it's not only about ideology, yes, ideology does matter. it's very important when it comes to explaining why an american or a german or a frenc travel all the way from california to iraq to fight side by side with them.

but for syria and turkey, it has to do with sectarianism and money in syria. still, ideology is very important. that's not the only factor in this case. so they were able to recruit more and more people, gain more and more money, and control more and more lands. this is the recent map now. the small black spots grow to this black and gray area, which is controlled by the islamic state, which is the new version of isis. then came the international coalition air campaign against isis, first in iraq, and later on in syria. and the question here is, who is eligible, who has what it takes to control the areas that this

international campaign is going to liberate from isis? definitely it is the assad regime. because as we said, for 15 or 16 months, the moderate rebels who are desperate, and doesn't enjoy any kind of support, either we're talking about weapons or training or financial support. so unfortunately, the people in syria now are not optimistic when they think about this war against terrorism in their country, and in iraq, because they think at the end of the day, it will help the regime. my last point is, is it a lost case? or is there still hope? this is what gives me hope, actually, when i think about syria. people are still going to the streets, chanting against the

regime. they started to chant against the regime like four years ago. and now they are saying, on every single occasion, down with the regime and down with isis as well. they think they deserve a better choice. they don't have to choose between bashar al assad and his regime and another taliban in syria. this is where they are caught. more than 200,000 died. more than 7 million are now refugees in neighboring countries. and more than 3 million

internally displaced. and half a million besieged in their towns. this is how they portray the relationship. i think it tells a lot. still, there is a way out by reinforcing the moderate rebels in syria, in order to exert more pressure over assad, to get him to the negotiating table, and make sure there will be an orderly transition in syria, that will not turn it into another libya or another iraq,

but will make sure that there will be an orderly transition into a more democratic society in this country. my final note is that, that's also a good one from one of the demonstrations. this is not the way out. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> do you want to take three questions? >> yeah. >> okay. any questions? no speeches now, just questions. >> can i ask you a question? >> please. >> as we know from the lessons of history, no country can deal with the challenge of terrorism alone unilaterally.

and i think in your talk, you spoke about the need to support those forces who actually demonstrated before for freedom. now, we do have a coalition, and we spoke about the role of the military. what specifically on the basis of your experience in syria, and obviously in egypt, has to be done by the coalition in terms of trying to inject some hope for the future?

and you mentioned that the struggle is for many years. i suppose decades, if not the next century. so what specifically will you recommend that the coalition, who want to protect democracy and human rights and minority rights, what should they do? >> okay. fortunately, we do have two things. first of all, an offer from four countries in the region. saudi arabia, qatar and turkey . fortunately we have the president of the united states giving $500 million for training, and sending weapons to the moderate rebels in syria. and to draft a plan, to train

like 15,000, 20,000 soldiers in these four countries, in a time frame that doesn't exceed a year. from february 2015. by the end of the year, we will have enough soldiers to replace isis in eastern syria and in northern syria, and to exert some pressure on assad in order to bring him into the negotiating table. and then try to find a way to strike a deal that will move syria into a transitional period. yes, sir? >> one more. go ahead. >> sir, excellent presentation. >> thank you. >> the former command of the special operations command, the new chancellor at the university of texas, one of his favorite phrases was, you can surge forces, but you can't surge

trust. problems it would seem with the way we treated the shah of iran, with your -- how do we resolve that? >> would you explain more how this -- >> in other words, the confidence, the leadership of the countries in the area, whether it's saudi arabia, the leadership in egypt, promises that we're making, drawing red lines, the confidence that we can make all sorts of promises, but can they trust us on backing up those promises? >> well, obviously there is a problem here. but i think, still, there is enough confidence in the region, in the u.s., in order to bring the change into this area.

yeah, there is a problem here. but i always think about the public opinion in the region, not only about the regimes. and i've dealt with the syrians for more than two yerks and they were really disappointed back in august 2013 when the u.s. administration promised to conduct some strikes when assad used the chemical weapons against his own people. so from time to time, you hear them saying that the americans promise and never deliver. but i think it's not yet a lost case. and the war against isis is a wakeup call. it brought the international coalition into the area again. they are already conducting air strikes in syria. the only thing is to make sure that assad is not making use of this air campaign, and to enable the moderate rebels to control more and more lands, at least the one that they have

controlled last year. the gentleman in the back. >> no speeches. >> no speeches. i want to applaud your use of maps in your presentations. and i ask, one of the reasons we were able to successfully negotiate in bosnia was ambassador holbrook was not -- not only knew more about the facts on the ground, we knew more about the facts on the ground than milosevic did. your newest map was six months old. how would we draw those kinds of maps if we wanted to do it in near realtime, 24, 48 hours old? >> the newest one was october 5th this year. >> oh, it was? i didn't see that. because it's on facebook doesn't mean it's true. >> well, some of them are not from facebook actually. some of them i got from the syrian intelligence community itself. some of them were drawn by independent institutions in

europe. and i used to verify this information with the military advisers of the united nations special envoys to syria, who has a very capable military officers there. thank you very much. >> well, thank you. and again, on behalf of the institute, we want to thank all of our distinguished panelists and speakers. i hope that you will go away with the idea that whether you're talking about a military type of strategy in action, war, a civilian type of strategy in action, or national security, or really all of the above, because

they're interconnected, i hope that you would help us send the message out to the world that this is a complicated type of operation. and we have to have very clear war or conflict aims before we start. and we certainly have to give some thought to how we want it to look when we're done. and this is not just from the political standpoint, the military standpoint, the economic standpoint, or the cultural standpoint, but all of those views and others as well. and we have to have mechanisms that can translate these plans into actions. and we don't have that very well today in this country. and we need to do better. we also need to understand clearly that we have to be

adaptive along the way. because plans and considerations change as we all know. but this is about whether we're liked or not, really, it's a crucial one in many ways. and we also have an awful lot of lawyers involved in operations. and that bothers me, too. fundamentally, you want to understand that the military goes somewhere, there's a couple of basic rules in this kind of environment. we ought to remember, one, don't ever do anything that hurts the people you're trying to help. soldiers, the lower the rank, the better they are, and they understand that. and that really doesn't need too much in the way of legal advice or anything like that, that's common sense. during the eisenhower administration a guy named lederer wrote a book, talking

about the way the americans acted and the way we were looked at by other peoples around the world in laos and places like that. eisenhower put the word out to the military, he said, start learning about cultures and languages and people and how they live, and start looking at the world through their eyes instead of yours. and we did that pretty well for a while. but i sense we've kind of drifted away from that a little bit, too. so i think that's very, very important. but anyway, i could wax on. but we're really already over time. are there any sandwiches left for those who might still be hungry? okay. thank you all very much. [ applause ] >> the senate intelligence committee released its long awaited report earlier in week.

lots of reaction coming all across the country. now here is some of what he had to say today. cia's mission in the wake of the 9/11 attacks would be a multidimensional one. stopping al qaeda would require the cia to work closely with its intelligence community, military, homeland security and law enforcement partners. as well as with numerous intelligence and security services around the globe. to be successful, cia officers knew that they needed speed, agility, courage, resources, and most important, intelligence. their mission was to acquire

through human and technical operations and then to analyze with deep expertise whatever bits and pieces of information might help fill out the menacing yes incomplete puzzle of al qaeda's terrorist plans. indeed, there were numerous credible and very worrisome reports about a second and third wave of major attacks against the united states. and while we grieved, while we honored our dead, while we tended to our injured and while we embarked on the long process of recovery, we feared more blows from an enemy we couldn't see and an evil we couldn't fathom. this is the backdrop against

which the agency was directed by president bush to carry out a program to detain terrorist suspects around the world. in many respects, the program was uncharted territory for the cia and we were not prepared. we had little experience housing detainees and precious few of our officers were trained interrogators. but the president authorized the effort six days after 9/11 and it was our job to be carry it out. over time, enhanced interrogation techniques, eits which the department of justice determined at the time to be lawful and duly authorized by the bush administration were introduced as a method of interrogation. as concerns about al qaeda's terrorist plans endured a variety of these techniques were employed by cia officers on several dozen detainees over the course of five years before they ended in december of 2007. the legal advice under which they were authorized subsequently has been revoked. when the president came into office in january, 2009, he took the position that these techniques were contrary to our values and he unequivocally banned their use. he has consistently expressed the view that these techniques did significant damage to america's standing in the world

and made it harder to pursue our interests with allies and partners. something i have experienced firsthand. but as the president stated this week, the previous administration faced agonizing choices about how to pursue al qaeda and prevent additional terrorist attacks against our country. while facing fears of further attacks and carrying out the responsibility to prevent more catastrophic loss of life. there were no easy answers. and whatever your views are on eits, our nation and in particular this agency did a lot of things right during this difficult time to keep this country strong and secure. the same year the techniques were banned by the president, the senate select committee on intelligence, the ssci, initiated a review of the detention and interrogation program. >> the take down of osama bin laden could be attributed to what the president and others have called torture.

do you think the bin laden case can be attributed in some part to enhanced interrogation techniques or torture and you have acknowledged in your own experience that what the president described as difficulties in relationships with allies has resulted from this chapter in american history? can you expand on that how you have experienced difficulties as a result of what has been disclosed? and finally if there is some unknowable value to these techniques, to water boarding, near drowning, slamming people against the wall, hanging them in stress positions, confining them in small boxes or coffins, threatening them with drills, waving guns around their head as they are blindfolded, which of these techniques could be used as the director of central

intelligence you and another president or this president were faced with an imminent threat? could there be another covert finding and rulings and advice from the attorney general that would lead you and your successors to say we should do this because there could be some value to prevent an attack on america? >> first question on bin laden. it is our considered view that the detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques provided information that was useful and was used in the ultimate operation to go against bin laden. again, are intelligence information from the individuals who were subbed to eits provided information that was used in that. again, i am not going to attribute that to the use of the

eits. i'm just going to state as a matter of fact the information that they provided was used. as far as the relationships with others that sometimes are complicated i think we see in the international press right now there is a lot of scrutiny being paid to what different partners did during that period of time. and i think there's a lot of hyperbole that is now fueling the discussion, the debate and also then is harmful to continuing our intelligence cooperation because there is a lot of exaggeration, misrepresentation of the facts and therefore, i think certain agendas are being pursued so i certainly wish that this would not be happening. >> diane feign live tweeted reaction. among her comments, unrelated to

eits. and cia helps keep our nation safe, strong, torture does not. we must learn from our mistakes. >> here are some of the programs you will find this weekend on the c-span networks. sunday evening at 8:00, plitico reporters share stories about being on the campaign trail. saturday night at 10:00, political fundraiser on money and politics. and sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern, shane harris on the military's use of cyber space to wage war.

a panel including washington times opinion editor david keen on how reagan's career as an actor and spokesman helped hone his communication skills former aide to president nixon shows clips of his 1983 interview about vietnam, water gate and resignation. call us, e-mail us, or send us a tweet at c-span comments. join the conversation. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> last week honda announced that it will expand its recall of vehicles with takata driver side air bags nationwide.

the global quality assurance senior vice president auto executives with bmw and toyota and the acting head of traffic and safety administration also testified. this portion is about two hours and 25 minutes. >> i want to welcome everyone to our hearing today. for commerce manufacturing and trade sub committee. i think this is our -- this is our last hearing of this congressional session. assuming no emergency for next

week. so next year, mr. burgess is going to take over the gavel for this sub committee and so even though he is not a current member of the sub committee to kind of get a feel for the importance of this sub committee and certainly the importance of this hearing today. so, the title of this hearing is takata air bag ruptures and recalls. safety recalls are often marked by tragedy. that's what brings it to our attention. but they are even more troubling when they -- the very equipment being recalled is intended to save lives. now this morning we will begin piecing together history of a safety defect that became known

only by what appears to us as fits and starts. and seemingly has several potential causes. the first known rupture occurred in 2004 in alabama. three more led takata to identify a bad stamp for us in moses lake, washington. in 2008, honda recalled 3,940 cars in the u.s., however two more air bags ruptured may and june of 2009, one of which killed the driver. at that point it appears that takata believed that the inflaters with were being inproperly exposed to moisture.

vehicles with falter air bags have been recalled. and yet, several more ruptures subsequently occurred in southern states. this led manufacturers to believe that the prolonged ex exposure to high absolute humidity levels was a major contributing factor. however, nitsa recently demanded that manufacturers broaden the current recalls to the national level. i understand takata disagrees

with ntsa's assess skpment and look forward to learning more about that. now there are several questions here to address. our highway safety depends on the individual lens of manufacturers as well as ntsa. sometime the regulator is in the best position to defend the defect and sometimes it's the

manufacturer. the time has come to bring the facts together and make sure that the unsafe air bag inflators are off the market. consumers can get their falter parts replaced and future recalls are handled better. the safety of american drivers depend on success. i thank the witnesses for being here today and help achieve these goals and put a stop to the deadly problem. there is one minute left of mine. would you like to claim that? >> yes. thank you. and i thank our witnesses also for being here and as the chairman said, 2004 is the first time when you have this issue. it was -- it was when the first inflater exploded. and then we go through the process of looking at the propel lent change and finding out when the change was made going to

ammonium nitrate in 2001. we hope this this hear willing give us an opportunity to talk with you about the decision making process. who was involved in that? why did they make the decisions that they did. we will drill down on that. we are very disappointed in takata. refusing to work with ntsa on the deadline for a national recall of the driver's side air bags. we will want to address that with you. we welcome our witnesses and i am finishing right on time. back to you. >> well done. now the chair recognizes the ranking member, the gentle lady from illinois for five minutes. >> thank you for holding this important hearing today.

he will leave an indelible legacy when he retires at the end of this year. i am so proud to have learned from and worked with him on so many issues. and mr. chairman, i would also like to recognize you for your eight terms in the house, representing the people of nebraska. and i have enjoyed working with you during your chairmanship of the sub committee of the past two years. i am determined to respond in a way that improves driver and passenger safety. four years later the company issued the first recall to address air bag rubtures, a recall that expanded. earlier this year, a new recall was initiated to find the root

cause of similar rupttures and last week there was a national recall asked for and yesterday the company rejected the request. takata and honda knew about serious risks as early as ten years ago. if prompt action had been taken, we wouldn't be here today. auto manufacturers whose customers are driving vehicles equipped with air bags that could be deadly now have to determine whether they will recall the air bags on their own. i received letters from con stit wents who are literally afraid to drive their cars and this is unacceptable. i want to know why takata has been so slow to respond and why it believes a national recall is

not warranted. i want to know what commitments they plan to make in the immediate future to protect their customers. i want to know what more ntsa needs to do to prevent problems like these to continue. whether replacement with very similar products actually eliminates the risk of air bag explosions in the future. so i look forward to our witness's answers to these questions and more. the incredibly slow response is just the latest reminder that we need stronger laws to protect drivers and passengers and hold manufacturers accountable for the cars they sell. earlier this year i introduced hr 5654, the vehicle safety information act, legislation to improve auto safety and the

efficacy and efficiency of recalls. that bill would expand and clarify the information manufacturers must provide ntsa about defects. increased information. increased financial penties. provide an imminent hazard authority so that they can expedite recalls. unless the problem has been fixed and the buyer has been noti notified. i urge the chairman to bring this bill up for consideration in the sub committee or to ask house leadership to put it on the suspension calendar without delay. with that i yield back the balance of my time. >> chair now recognizes full committee chair, mr. upton.

>> thank you. and i appreciate your leadership the last number of years and we also will miss mr. waxman. i think we will have a formal recognition of years of both of your service. so i'm from the auto state. i'm sorry to say that it has been a bad year for auto safety. air bags can shoot shrapnel through the air and mac an accident even worse. if they do get a replacement that air bag may be subject to the same safety failure in the future because we still don't know if the root problem has gotten addressed. and today, we all want some answers. american people deserved to have confidence that the cars that they drive are safe and that the industry and government are doing everything that they can

do to improve safety. the first question is whether or not it's a design flaw for the air bag or a manufacturing issue. until that question is answered, you're not going to be able to resolve the issue. deadly auto defects are not new subjects. i have listened to firestone to toyota to gm earlier this year. i authored a tread act to help catch and fix defects sooner to help avoid the disaster that we're facing today yet here we are today. requiring manufacturers to report the information needed to help ntsa quickly identify vehicle defects and remove

flawed cars from the road right away. our goal was to prevent injury and save lives. cars are safer today. but not because a company hires lawyers and consul can'ts to avoid reporting safety incidents. i'm going to ask some tough questions regarding what we have read and herd about honda manipulating the system to report as little as possible. we need to institute safety incentives. in the case of gm they acknowledged their safety failure and their ceo volunteered to testify. i would like to see that same level of urgency, that same admission of mistakes and that same commitment to do better today. complex safety technology can lead to complex problems in the takata air bag issues are indeed

complex. there were manufacturing issues and handling issues. as soon as one problem was identified it seemed like another sprang up. and now we're waiting to find out if humidity is the issue or if there are other manufacturing concerns. in the meantime, testing is slow. and we are short on replacement parts. what is worse, no one can say for sure that the replacement parts are any safer than the originals. we may be right back here after the replacement parts have reached their humidity half-life. we need to make sure that companies and regulators can keep pace with regulation. we need solutions not more problems. for witnesses i pose this question. what should i say to the mom in michigan who asks me if she and her family are safe behind the wheel? families across the country

expect safety devices in their vehicles to work. they expect them to provide life saving protection that they can count on and they expect that problems from earlier models be reported and fixed and they expect to be able to get a defect repaired when they find out about it. one thing is for sure we have a lot of issues to resolve. i want to thank him from the bottom of my heart and wish him well in the future and i yield back my time. >> thank you. that's much appreciated. now it's time to introduce our panel. >> i'm sorry. >> getting ahead of myself. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. neither you nor i have left the committee yet which we will do at the end of this year and i thank the colleague for her kind

words. here is what we know so far we know there have been a series of air bag recalls >> there are questions that remain unanswer ds. we do not know what were defective about these air bags. we do not know that it appears that the national highway traffic safety administration do not know, either, the root cause of all of these exploding air bags. so we have questions about whether the replacement air bag inflaters are safe. new documents provided to the

committee reveal new questions. the national highway traffic safety administration recently requested a national recall of all defective air bags on the driver's side of the car but has limited its action to regional recalls of passenger side air bags.

i hope the committee will continue its investigation. but we know enough to to begin our legislative work.

or e or legislation improves the early warning reporting system by making more reported information public and insuring that nitsa receives significantly more information from manufacturers on any fatal incident involving a safety defekt. additional data and greater transparency will help nitza identify deadly safety defects sooner. nitza has been criticized for failing to recognize. our bill provides mr resources to give them the additional enforcemented authority and

increasing the fines for manufacturers that violate safety laws. . mr. chairman, i think our legislation is a good place to start. while i have a very short time left, i'd like to yield it to the jegentleman from vermont.

>> now it's the appropriate time to introduce the panel. i'm introduce the panel as the whole. so, today, our first panel is hiroshi shimazu from honda. rick shawstack from bmw, from toyota, abas sadat. appreciate all of you being here. we will go from my left, your right, and start with mr. shimazu. but before i ask you to start, i want to recognize that you're appearing with a translater because english is not mr. shimazu eerks first language.

and while the skmit tcommittee allow to refer, he will be required to answer the committee's question in his own voice and in english. i appreciate your acceptance of that. so mr. shimazu, you are now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. i am honored to be here. mr. chairman, takata is dedicated to making products that save leaves. millions of air bags have inflated properly preventing thousands of deaths and avoiding serious injuries in hundreds of thousands of accidents around the world.

but any failure is incompatible with the migsz. we are deeply sorry about each case where takata's air bag has note performed as designed. and the driver or passenger has suffered personal injuries or death. takata is working closely with all the makers to support the only going recalls and the field productions and to address the potential for injury. we are increasing our prix.

we're also goating extensive efforts and requests for information about these models from nitza and other investigators. wrer we are kmited to being fully transparent with the government. one important function of the legal field is to retrieve for testing and airal sis. we regularly share all of these test results. based on the data currently avaltble and our best judgemented, takata continues to believe that the public safety is best serve ds if the humidity

remains a priority. takata is also prepared to clab rate with other producers to create additional production capacity for depress units. we are confident that the inflaters we are producing today are safe. we have confidence in our current product. we believe that properly

manufactured and installed, that inflaters were producing today will work as designed to save lives for the expected life of the automobiles. to provide for the public, takata is forming an understood pen dent quality assurance panel regarding our current manufacturing plo cesses for the production of safer inflaters including inflating properly. upon completion, the report will be made public. >> thank you. now, gentleman from honda, you are recognized for your five minutes. >> mr. chairman and members of the subcommittee. thank you for this opportunity to stef.

my name is rik schostek. i'm with honda, north america. i want to begin by expressing our deepest sympathies to those individuals and families who have been affected by these tragic incidents. air bags save thousands of lives per year. on november 17 thd, ninsa called for a nationwide recall of the driver air bag inflaters that have been included in the

regional safety improvement campaign under taken in four states and territories with consistently high absolute humidity. we understand that takata has knock ablg knowledged any defect of the driver air bag inflaters and thus far, takata has not announced plans to follow nitsa's request for a national recall. we want to inform you that honda is going to expand our campaign on affected driver air bag inflat i recalls to a national campaign. why are we doing this? because our customers have concerns and we want to asdresz them. we kblooef this expansion and acceleration of current action, we believe there will be a part shortage that may occur, despite takata's efforts to increase the

supply of inflaters. to further increase the parts supply, we have been in discussions with takata and two other suppliers, aut leave and dysel, about expanding the production of the replacement inflaters. these talks have been encouraging. however, until those parts are available, we will continue to discuss with nitsa and takata how to best manage the supply issue. we believe it is best to prioritize the replacement of driver air bag inflaters in what are considered to be the highest risk areas in the country. in addition, honda believes that all stake holders would benefit from expert testing of inflaters that was annoyanunced yesterday

an industrywide program. by coming together, we believe we can achieve greater results more quickly. let me briefly summarize. between 2008 and 2014, honda has discovered several recalls. since yun of 2014, honda, along with other automakers has been supporting the request to conduct regional campaigns? states and territories with high absolute humidity. we the urgency and have been taking proactive stoeps.

we have made hundreds of thousands of phone calls, used overnight mail delivery and routinely sent letters in both english and spanish. we have also hired a search firm. and, importantly, for customers whose vehicles can not be immediately repaired, honda has instructed our dealers to provide loaner or rental cars at no cost to the kusz mer. to summarize, we are going to expand the safety improvement campai campaign nationwide, prioritizing the high risk areas. we are working with multiple suppliers to increase parts availability. our entire company is operating with the greatest focus to quickly address our customer's needs and concerns in the day

ahead with every action of our kpraen, we are dedicating ourselves to honor the relationship we had with our customers. thank you. >> thank you. now, recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman terry and members of the sub committee for your invitation to participate at today's hearing. my name is craig wesbrook. i'm here on behalf of our company ren zenting the 70,000 people who had jobs provided and supported by the bmw group in the united states. in total, the bmw group's presence is represented in 48 states. this includes our north american headquarters in new jersey, our financial zservices in ohio and our manufacturing facility in south carolina. in fact, bmw groups is the

largest single experter or vehicles by value in the united states of america. the bmw group has been in the united states for nearly four decades. we have worked hard to become the fabric of the communalties in which we are present. central to our investments in and kmitment to the yietsds has been a focus on earning our rope ewation for deliverering only our word. and building trust with kmu customers and communities alike. vehicle safety is fundamental to the vehicle group. i highly appreciate the opportunity to appear today before this sub committee. i will shair a brief time line related to air bag recalls. in may of 2014, after takata informed production issues with certain inflaters, we initiated a voluntary national safety recall. this involved the passenger

front air bag on a model 2003 bmw vehicle. in may of 2014, nitsa met with takata to discuss issues with certain passenger and driver air bag issues. in mid june, nitsa opened a preliminary evaluation. it determined the root cause and the potential safety risk, nitsa held a conference call. during this call, automakers were asked for their support to conduct a voluntary parts collection campaign in specific, high humidity regions. bmw of north america promptly agreed to participate in this campaign. in july, 2014, out of an abundance of caution, north america expanded its voluntary campaign and 2013 recall. on july 15th, bmw noefed nitsa of an additional 574000

vehicles. the next day, july 16th, bmw dealers were notified after notifification to nitza. stard ard practice provides a draft customer notifification letter. in late august, nitsa aprovered our letter. mailed notification letters using first class mail as required by nitsa regulation. another way customers are informed of recalls is at our dealerships. when a customer visits a dealership, every bmw deal conducts an inquiry. once the vin is identified, the service cross references the vin. if aapplicableble, customers are informed that their vehicle is subject to a recall. repairs are either taken care of on the spot or an appointment is scheduled as soon as posz.

we have also made recall information available on our consumer site. additionally, inform information is also available on the web siet. on either siet, we emp issued a press release. in total, affecting vehicles. nitsa estimates over 7.8 million vehicles are affected by the recall. bmw of north america in certain states. this campaign affects the driver's front air bag. we are significantly increasing our loaner fleet to provide any

bmw customer who needs a loaner, rental vehicle or alter nat tra transformation. i can assure working with nitza and takata on these issues. we will remain individual lantd and proactive in addressing them. thank you for your time an attention. >> thank you. you are recognized ffr your five minutes. >> chairman terry, ranking member of the committee, thank you for invieting me here today. i'm the regional product safety executive. i'm a senior executive in the united states responsible for toyota's interaction with nitza and currently have responsibility for field action in the u.s. regarding the air bag inflater recalls.

i am an engineer by training and function. first, toid owe that shares your goals of helping those affected by recalls and keeping them safe. we are committed to resolve this issue for our customers as quickly, conveniently and safely as possible. we believe that actions we have taken reflect this skmitmentcom. from the beginning, toyota has responded and supported the on going investigation. in april of 2013, this recall is still in effect today. in june of this year, we expanded the remedy for this recall to replace all inflaters. also in june, in response to nitz's request toet indugs ri.

in october, suggesting the safety risk was highest in the area of consistently high absolute humidity. in response, we intensified our effort to reach customers in those areas which was publicized nationwide. tlout these recalls, we have rk woed to alert customers and get them the information they need. we also have made it easier for customers to find recall nfrgs on noi owe that's web siet. in addition, we have started a secondary customer out reach program in humt areas that include telephone calls, e-mail and direct mail. and we are staffing our call centers to handle any increasing related inquiries.

at the same time, we are working to get replacement parts and this effort is going well in humid regions. if parts are unavailable, we have empowered dealers to meet our customer's needs and minimize their inconvenience. for example, in humid areas, users can disable the air bag. dealers are also making loaner vehicles available and towing affected vehicles for customers if neg e necessary. to this point, the faster we get replacement parts, the fast other we can fix our customer's vehicles. like you, we want additional ainsurances about the process, prarly in the light of previous experiences. for instance, in 2010, toy owe

stay had to recall certain inflater in japan to address a different manufacturing problem not involving u.s. vehicles. in terms of toast iesting, we h also inspected takata production facilities. additionally, we have retained and e an ind pen don't engineering firm. separately, toyota is inviting all affected automakers to conduct ind pen dedent testing. go again, our nationwide recall remains in effect. in closing, toy yee e owe that

is taking this issue very seriously. when fully implemented, >> at this time rngs wore now to the question and answer period. and i have the opportunity to ask the first questions. mr. shimazu, following nitz's june 19th, 2014 request to takata and ten vehicle manufacturers to participate in a regional field action, houmg e how many passengers side and driver's side air bag inflaters have been tested to this date? so june 14th to today. >> to my knowledge, up to today, we completed tested around 4,000 pieces.

>> now, is that the 4,000 tests, are they evenly drieded between passenger and driver's side? >> it's most paz passenger side. i think for driver's side, i tested kwauns of around 400. >> so out of the 3600 on the passenger side air bags, how many ruptures have occurred? >> i don't have 5:00 raccurate , but i believer around less than 60. >> less than 60. okay. houbt how about on the driver's side. >> zero at this moment.

>> zero. how many tests are you doing currently? per day? >> currently, we are testing about is 00 inflaters per day. >> hundred what per day? >> a hundred pieces per day. >> are those all passenger? or, again, is it both? >> it's sometimes only driver's side or mix. it depends own what we collected from the region. >> very good. with your continued stance on opposing a national recall, what about takata's test results lead you to believe that a national recall of all driver's side air bags is not needed or

appropriate? >> based on the data from region and also other regions, the data still support that we should remain focused on the region with high temperature and high humtty. >> now, the kra crashes in north carolina and california led to believe that there was a riszing posed outside of the states with high absolute humidity. so why do you disz agree with the conclusion here? >> first, let he restate what i mepgszed in opening statement. we are not opposing that the ni tx za direction. we are kmited to take any action necessary to advance the goal of safety for the driving public that also includes what produce,

would recollecting to produce the additional replacemented kits to separate the further recall. so once aut makers decide to expand will support it. regarding your question, also i want to explain that it's we do some investigation about that event. but not completely yet. and still the invest dwags. the event in north carolina. at this time, we have no chance to check the vehicles and the action materials. we only have the production serial number information and the pictures. so we will do the inspect the

action vehicles later together with nrksz itza. . >> very good. i only had 28 seconds left so i'll yield wac back my time. >> thank you. mr. shimazi, am i saying it correctly? >> yes. >> in the letter takata sent to nitza yesterday, your director of product safety wrote that "under the stastatute, only manufacturers are required to decide in good faith where e whether their products contain the safety-related defekt. and, if so, to conduct a recall kwtsds. and mr. chairman, i'd like to submit this let for the record. >> let me ask you, do you agree with the conclusions in the letter sent by your company yesterday? >> yes. >> so mr. shimazu, do you agree

that takata is not required to decide in good faith whether your products contain a safety-related defect? >> i agree with that statement based on the data we have. it doesn't support to change from at this moment. >> so are you telling us that your company has no legal responsibility to determine if air bags are defective and to recall them? >> if our products are defective and supported scientific datas, we are responsible for that. >> so you believe that you are responsible for that if they are found to be defective, but it's really up to you to decide that? >> yes, we need extensive research of the products involved in each incident or

forever. so once we decide it, yes, we determine that defective, yes, it's our responsibility. >> so moving forward, takata will be replacing millions of air bags. are the air bags you're installing safe? >> yes. it's true that we have issued in the past and we identified the root of cause and addressed the issues we had in the past and to take care of this. currently, products is producing from well-controlled manufacturing processes. >> so you believe you have, in fact, discovered the root cause of the ruptures? >> excuse me? >> are you sure that -- and certain -- that you have

discovered tkatk arksz has discovered the root cause of the air bag riptures? >> yes. we identified root cause of the issues. however, we still continue the investigation. so we need to continue to invis e vest gat these corrective from these regions. >> so are you saying it is only in high humidity areas that this is a problem that that is the root cause? >> we considered main contribution to the problem together with age of the prungt e products and probably maybe competition with selling issues. that's whooi we corrected the inflator from these regions with

support from our automay e makers and then continued to analyze this. >> interesting. so who is the highest ranking takata official who has actually signed off on production of the air bags that are now being recalled? the ones that are defective? the ones that are being recalled, who is the highest ranking official that has actually signed off on that? >> any quality related issues and statement from company, i usually sign. >> you signed it. okay. >> and who is the highest ranking official with orr sight over the production aprooul ppr process? >> usually signed by head of operation and also means i sign. >> and let moe just ask each of the manufacturers, have any oaf these individuals be e been held

accounting for these decisions? >> can i ask my interpreter? >> yes. >> pllet me quickly, can i ask just yes or no. are toyota, honda and bmw cars oj the road, both for drivers and passengers with air bags safe. would you tell your children and spouses there is no danger of this e this type of rupture so keep on driving? >> we want our customers to be safe and feel safe. as you heard, there are national recalls in effect.

what we want our customers to do is first understand where their car is subject to a recall. if they are, we want to replace that part. >> please keep in mind for toyota vehicles, the problematic inflaters are all passenger side, not driver's side. i just want to make that clear. but in terms of -- >> how do you know that? all the deaths were on the driver's side? all of the deaths, not necessarily in toyota, but all the deaths. >> the jentle maid day's time has expired. the chair now recognizes the full committee chair. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i want to go back to my opening statement. this commitmented has been very

involved in aut saferty for a lot of years. i can remember rolling a flawed tire down this very desk about ten years ago, really seeking action and we did it. we worked at the end of the session, we significantly raised the fines and we added criminal sanctions for violations. jail. it was tough to get through, but we got it done. and i want to say it was certainly bipart san. and it was pretty close toe unanimous in terms ofd what we did. and what that did was immediate

sure that consumers got the information and failed safety behind the wheel. is there's a report that came out this morning, i have not read it, just literally within the past half hour or so, it says reuters is life-supporting today that takatda ran an investigation that ruptured in a wmw as ermly as 2003. and that additional testing for air bag inflate ere tell fekts was done in 2 e 004. ten years ago. both of these revelations would indicate investigating this well before it has been previously disclosed. can you comment?

are they related to the current recall? >> my answer is know. >> you can use the mic. >> my answer is no. regarding the arrangement in 2003, i, to my knowledge, it happened in europe, i believe switsdser land. and i believe that the cause of the problem is not inflater appropriate issue we are talking about right now. that was manufacturing issues that caused that problemment so it's not the same as the problems we are discussing right now. so they're not related is what you're saying. >> not related to the current issues. so do you know whether the issue today is manufacture related?

do you know that? the answer to that question? yes or no. >> in my nojs, current issues is most likely manufacturer related. okay. thank you. mr. shostek, in 2011, honda recognized an issue related to the verbal date code in the legal file management system that could have affected the accuracy of the early warning reports. addition additionally, in 2012, nitsa made reporting claims.

>> chairman, thank you very much for that question. i understand kwlour involvement in 2 establishment of the tread act more than ten years ago. and i can understand the disapointmented you feel by the shortcomings that have been evidenced by our companiment and i want to explain to you what happened. the problem we had with underreporting in the tread act is systematic problem that began at the out set of the tread act. our staff at the time did not properly program computers and set up systems that would accurately let date e data flow and feed into tread reports. it is difficult for me to say, sir, but that set up continued unchecked until 2011-2012. you are right, that an internal honda associate did mention a concern as well as discussion with nitza. they asked about the omission of

certain ins dencidents in our t rort. we did look into that in early 2012. we did not look into it effectively. >> we're going to be asking nitsa. what was nita's response. you did fess up, in essence, to nitza, right? >> in 2012, sir, we had a problem about con verting oral claims into written claims. we made a counter measure internally to report those writtenen claims. we did not close the loop with nitza.

>> did nitza come back and say what happened? what was nitz's's response? >> as you know, sir, we engaged a third party to do an audit in september of this year. and we had a dialogue in october of this year about the preliminary findings. they actually found -- i'm glad that we used an outside nird party to do that all it because they found two more instances of our noncompliance. so based on that, we've discussed that n e with nitz action. as you know, we just sib e submitted our nflgts. but what we've done in the meantime is to begin to fix the computer programs to provide training to augment the staffing. there are many functions that feed information for tread.

and we did not designate a single responsible person and that is our fating, sir. >> i yield back. >> thank you. now the chair recognizes the full committee ranking member, mr. waxzman. thank you very much, mr. chairman. on november 18th, nitz aerks announced its attention to expand to a nationwide recall. on november 26 thd, nitza formally requested that takata expand to a national recall. but, yesterday, takata spobded responded that, the currently available reliable information does not support a nationwide determination of a safety defengt. mr. shimazu, why does takata not

believe in a nation wild recall. >> yes, congressman. we, as you know, we were collecting data from the inflater we collected from recalls. and according to the data we have, there's no -- actually zero from driver's side. we have some ain a momently, but all of them are from florida and puerto rico. based on this data, we should still stay focused on these areas. >> do you believe the same thing is true for the reejsal recalls of passenger side air bags? >> it's possible. as i said, congressman, it's all anomaly found in an inflater is came from in re fl and purt reel cole.

>> let me see if i can understand this decision a bit more from a consumer perspective. in the koent thenal united states, the recall only covers cars in florida. >> i'm talking about reasonable recalls? >> yes. >> yes. >> covering florida, puerto rico and hawaii. and some aut makers come out even more around the gulf coast. >> but if i have a car with a takata air bag in florida, just south of the georgia line, it's an you are jent matter that i wring it in for a recall. but if i instead live 15 mip its north of that line in kingsland, georgia, i gather the position is that my car is perfectly safe? is that a correct assumption? >> based on data we collected, temperature and humidity and

also the dew point and that's the background of how we can determine the area we focused on that. that's covered quite a wide area. and sf it's vehicle registered in outside area, we consider it safe and no concern at this moment. >> okay, mr. shostek, dusz that make sense to you? 15 minutes north, you're okay. but if you're in florida, just below the line, you got to go in and get a replacement. >> right, congressman. i think it's also important as we talk about this to di distinguish the recalls. i want to make sure that the committee understands that the raults that we kungted from 2008 through 2014, that were related

to specific takata manufacturing defects, those were national in scope. so for those recalls, we believe we have understand the cause of the problem that is takata's manufacturing defects. and those cars are being recalled no matter where they are. what we're talking about now is from 2014 to the present. so approximately the last 5 months. and all of us in the industry have been asked by nitz to do a safety improvement campaign to gather information and recall or bring back inflaters that are in those high humidity states. >> but the idea is if you're in certain areas, the heat and humidity would require you to comply with a regional recall. but let me just ask a dichblt question. if i live in houston, texas,

it's slightly less humid there, but not by much than jacksonville, florida. can we be sirn that my car won't develop the same defect but prapsz two or three years later? >> that's a good question. and we asked that question ourselves. that is why we expanded our regional recall to include texas. >> do you still not know the root cause of these air bag failures? >> congressman -- >> i'm just -- dyso you know th root cause? >> at this moment, we don't have that root cause. we know the factor may contribut this problems. so that's why we still are researching these inflaters.

>> the confusing information comes from takata is confusing to drivers. they don't know whether their cars are safe. this confusion is kpraser baited by the deferent ways that automanufacturers are handling this information. this morning, we learned that honda will be expanding to a national recall. when and why did honda decide to expand its rault? >> congressman, we heard this morning about the answer that takata gave yesterday. we have been seriously considering as honda expanding the safety improvement campaign nationally so we can gather more data nationally. once we understood that answer

yesterday from takata, we decided to take a. we want to take care of all of our kugs mers on a nationwide basis. however, as i said if my opening statement, we still believe that the highest risk is in the southern areas, those high, humid areas. and that those should be prior advertised. our job is to satsz fill our customers. we want to expand the recall. >> gentle man's time has expired. the chair recognizes from tennessee the vice chair of the full committee. >> thank you. thank you mr. chairman. and i thank our witnesses for being willing to answer these questions. we are trying to get to the root cause of this.

mr. waxman just mentioned that term and mr. shimizu, i want to go that direction with you. let's go specifically to the november 19th, new york times art kal that t art article that tries to give a time line. why we got into this mess in the first place. that is covered in some part in this nork times art kal. i would like to submit this for the record. i think it speaks both to mr. waxman's question and to mine. >> would you submit this? >> new york times article. >> without objection, so ordered. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. shimizu, it says by

1999, rezernlers in michigan pressured by executives developed an e a propellant bassed on amoan yum nitrate. but the engineering team in the plant raised objections to bassing a propel lant on such a risky pound. now, let's talk about that for a minute it. i've also found michael britain said won't that blow up? and number 2, mark lily, a former engineer with takata. it's a basic design flaw and risk cat strovic failure. and these all were before you all made this decision. you male the decision anywhereway to move forward with this. and that's a problem for us and

for the american consumer. and for the individuals that have lost their lives or have lost their eyesight or have been hurt by this. so what was takata's response to the concerns race e raised by mr. britain and mr. lily. >> congresswoman, let me explain about materials. first, the 345 tierings itsz, are safe and stable. >> mr. shi mrksz izu, i'm sorry to interrupt you. that is not the response i'm asking you for. i understand what ammonia nitrate is. i know very well what it is. i am asking you, you had two people a senior engineer and a chemical engineer, that brought it to your attention that this was not a wise choice. i am asking you, sir, when they

brought this to your attention, what did you and your team at takata say in response to these engineers? did you blow it off? and say it doesn't matter? it costs less. did you say we think we can get by with this? because it is an aggressive propellant? i want to know what your response was to them? >> congress woman, i was not involved at the time. however, i know it's in a lot of discussion about selecting material for a new type of inflater. and we considered that kept kal properties and also combustion characteristic of the materials and we decide ds and we can control some weak area and we can -- >> mr. shimizu, you're avoiding

the question. so let's move on. what was your first date of employment with takata? when did you start to work for them? >> with takata? 1978. >> oh, so you were around. >> yeah. >> so we established that you were and during that time in '99 when this decision was made. so let me ask this another way. did any other takata employees or outside parties warn takata about using ammonia nitrate po prelant, yes or no. did you or anybody else warn them? >> i'm not aware of that. >> you're not awareover that. so you don't know if anybody else, other than these two engineers warned them that this was a really bad idea. you don't know that. their con serps about using

ammonia nitrate propellant relate to executives at takata. yes or no. and do you know who or when? >> go ahead and answer the question. >> can i confirm your question, please? >> okay. were the concerns about using ammonia nigh trat as a pro pel lant relate to executives at takata. do you know if it made it up the food chain to the csuite. >> i don't know about that. >> okay. well, you've got a good team with you. we will allow you to respond. my time has expired. i've got -- let's see, i've got five other questions. i will submit these in writing and we would like an answer before the end of the year. yield back. >> thank you. chair now recognizes gentleman from maryland.

>> thank you. mr. shimizu, the takata, as i understand, has agreed to the recall at its expension with respected to both driver's side and passener jer side air bags within the regions where there are high absolute humidity. is that correct? >> yes. >> okay. and you said to congressman waxman a moment ago that you do not yet know the root cause of the defekt or the problem with the deployment of those air bags with respected to that regional recall. >> congressman, we don't identify their root cause yet. that's why it continues. but we strong opinion that is in fact contributing with these defekts. >> okay.

>> which is high humidity and temperature and life of the product. >> mr. chairman, i'm glad to take more time than you want to give me, but that time is not running. so i just thought i'd tell you. i'll give that back later some time. appreciate it. my question is, if you don't know the root cause, how do you know the replacement part that you're providing solves the problem? is it different enough in its design that you have confidence that the replacement doesn't continue to have the same problem? do you understand my question? >> the current product we are producing right now is produced from the most recent line, which

is done from the previous issues. >> okay. so the production line, the issue is that you can't yet quite identify the root cause that was part of the prior production line that created this problem, but you have confidence that as a result of the new production line, whatever that problem might have been is now solved going forward with respect to the replacement vehicles? mr. schostek, you implied the idea that notwithstanding

takata's decision to resist a national recall that to the extent the auto manufactures on their own initiative decided to expand a recall nationally. that's a practical matter that we could end up having a national recall. although i guess there's some differences of opinion by the manufacturers to the scope of that. i'm going to ask mr. westbrook about that in a moment. i tax it that if you on your own initiative decide to expand the recall beyond what takata has agreed to you're making the decision to at least on the front end, the expense of that replacement, air bag in place, and then i guess down the road you'll try to recover that. is that how it works? as opposed to where they've

agreed to the recall. the expense is absorbed on the front end by takata. is that right? >> congressman, for us we start and end with our customers. what's right for our customers, and that's the action we're trying to take here. it's true that an an industry, we're going to make it for our vehicles a national safetq!!bx improvement campaign, it is true we have theories, but we don't know the cause. so our interest is getting as much information as possible. it's also why it was announced yesterday, and we appreciate toyota's leadership on the issue that we as manufactures have decided we need to share. we need to engage an expert outside third party. takata will continue to do their tests and we'll continue to receive that information from them, but as an industry we are saying -- as an auto industry we're saying it's going to be better for all of us if we can gather information more quickly,

and it's in all of our interests, congressman, to find the cause and be able to reassure all of our customers and reassure the public of safety on the the rods. >> mr. westbrook, may i ask you because i have just one minute. i understand that honda supports the national recall on the driver's side air bags. and on the passenger's side, which, by the way, on the driver's side, takata cause not support that. takata does not support it on the passenger side. but bmw does support it on the passenger's side. although not on the driver's side.

right? and that may be because bmw is concluding there may be some other problem specific to the passenger's side air bags that even goes beyond or is separate from this other issue we been talking about. can you just briefly -- you've got 15 seconds explain this? >> we have a unique design on the passenger side that may not be known to the committee. the passenger air bag is unique to the design and manufacturer. from takata in 2013, we had the first indicator through production processes. in 2014 they gave us another indication that due to high absolute humidity areas we might have a risk. we took a third indicator that the unique design could create the risk of additional air bag-related injuries and not related to a ruptured inflator, because as of today we had never seen one single ruptured inflator. we're trying to cover the customers. we they deserve that.

we're complying with what nhtsa has sanctioned, excuse me, the local or regional campaign, which we are working on now. we will independent testing. we are under contract with a well known european testing organization that tests air bag safety. this is under way. we expect to get results. we will share the results. we will collaborate. we always try to get ahead of this and just do the right thing. >> thank you. >> gentleman's time has expired. chair now recognizes the chairman from texas. recognized for your five minutes. >> well, thank you mr. chairman. you know. here we go again. i wasn't here for the opening statements, but it seems like every few years we have a

hearing with some automobile manufacturer that they've had some sort of a defective part, and they treated it as more of a manufacturing quality control issue and not as a serious safety issue. it's ironic in that case that the part is something that is supposed to protect the driver or the passenger, and it turned out that the air bag or deflator or something in the air bag was defective. you know, it's none of us, i mean, we have some people that are technically trained on the committee. but we're not automotive engineers or safety experts. so, you know, we ask questions of you folks, and then later on in nhtsa, and then we cross our fingers. you know, i'm just i'm just puzzled and disappointed that here we go again.

so my most serious questions will be reserved for the nhtsa witness in the second panel, but i would ask mr. shimizu, and i may not be pronouncing your name correctly. in the short term the old saying is don't dig the hole any deeper. i'm told by my friends at general motors that there's a shortage of repair kits to do the replacements, and there are a couple of gm products used in the takata air bags. how soon will you have enough good kits available so we can go ahead and do the recalls for the cars we've already recalled? >> congressman, regarding the capacity of the replacement kits, we are now staffed to 350,000, and this will increase to 450,000 in january by adding two more lines. and we continue to work on

discussing with auto makers to increasing capacity. and as mr. schostek mentioned, we also are taking the option to evaluate if it's visible. so we'll take every action necessary to support, to speed up the replacement of the -- >> now, i'm just an old engineer, but there are about 7 million cars, i think, that all in all have been recalled. at 450,000 a month, that's a year and a half or longer. do you think that's acceptable? >> it's not speeding up. that's why we are discussing in our capacity of the productions, but it takes a month to be ready

for that. so we do everything we can do at this moment. >> well, what does the driver do with the vehicle that's in a recall that is not going to be repaired for another year and a half or two years? owe just disconnect the air bag? just hope you don't have an accident? >> no, that's impossible. i understand the situation. that's why -- i'm not trying to be rude about it. >> we, of course, actually, the data shows that it's still -- in that case that we can supply to fit the the demand of our customers at this moment, if we focus on that priority, or if we do taking a phase, by adding capacity, we can catch up the