to pay for thistu ññ so-called stabl and i'm not convinceêh that we're not again seeing the calm before the storm. i can't give you a simple yes or no answer to thes:+ question, butnp@h i do believe that frankly we are having the wrong policy description. there's obviously some good. i don't think i7÷ that doddn[!9 is all bad. to quote me, it's only 95% bad. by and large, the increased standards is a good thing. some good can come from a living willbcñ[x÷vk concept. there are aspects that have been helpful but all in all, no,@n= consider dodd frank to be a failure and i'm fearful that we're replanting the same seeds that led to the crisis in the

first place. >> chairman, you get the last ñoa word. please join me in thank youing them. [ applause ] coming up at 8 eastern on c span 3, a house veterans affairsxl cemetery0é9ñ operations with7bjñ a look at improving the t;3hsystem. thatf ñ on c span tonightufcd starting at 8:00 eastern.yk& tonight on the ethics on internet companies harvesting users information. >> it'sajn a creepy yes

expectations are shifted because i realize that there might be p@b@nother party who< doing, say, for example if a message pops up and asks if i would like some help making a purchase there are certain lines that we don't know we've crossed them1#8p until it's too late. that's true for researchers. that's true for3yb companies. there isn't a clear sense of what's creepy because that's so culturally specific. one person talkingpf,%ñ loudly on their cell phone in a park has no problem with somebody standing next to them on a bench and listening to that conversation and at the same time you can have someone who is trying to have a private conversation and they will go to great lengths to be somewhere that's completely secluded. we're not just dealingdz(úd with the cultural aspects. tonight at 8:00 eastern on the"÷ communicators on c span 2.

a discussion now on leadership strategies. it was part of thefzss journalú>6lceo council annual meeting in washington, d.c. it's about halfqevç an hour. we're going to talk about something that is of great interest to ceos and that's that in the context of bhas going on now in afghanistan in iraq, and we have two just excellent people to talk about those two topics with.@ general michaelee flynn and0hñ general stanley mcchristel and

their bios are in the programs. leadership is something the military develop in its people and the military is seen as a place where leadership skills are honed and there's great deal of expertise. and general, you are now out on the stump with these lessons you are teaching at yale&r4 university azzc course onqeñ leadership,llqxc you are speaking to a number of these ceo on your coaching on leadership. can you tell us what they are doing right and what they are doing wrong? >> that's a loaded question. what i see is sort of the same thing that i saw in theq military, and that is you rise to a senior level and you start to focus on strategy, which is difficult and important, but at the end of the day, what i find the biggest problem is an organization can get the strategy right but then can't execute it.

we're right near the battle of first bull run, general mcdowell commanded it and if you actually look at the plan, they had a pretty good plan but he didn't have an army that could execute it, so it made it not a good plan, and so what i see in many firms is a cybilling across different parts ofóxó big geographic dispersed firms difficulty cf communicating because of cultural barriers and distance and other things. problems with decision making in terms of people will meet and then not make a decision or they will make a decision and then it won't be implemented a6zda people sort of wonder what happened. organization and while that seems mechanical, it's really an art. it's not a straight science to that. you can't do checklists and make that work. it's relationships and processes that you set up that make that anj4aóñ organic effective. >> you say in your writings that a ceo, a real leader shouldn't be a decision makinger.

they should be a decision filter. -- facilitator, that sounds like that somebody could be wafleg. what do you think joe, what do you think susan? is that the dna that we now in a ceo or is that a new model ceo that's going to have -- in transitional group to a new type of ceot tq necessary to run these big complex companies? >> i think it has to be. what i found in myp8own experience and i had joint special operations command and mike was there. i had grown up as an operator so my tendency was to make decisions on operations. in reality things have changed enough where i didn't have the most expertise in doing that and i had a lot of other people who could do that, so what i had to do is i had to pull myself and i found that when i finally got it where i thought it was closer to right, i made very very few decisions and what i really did was i was sort of the ring

master for this constant conversation across the command. that was my contribution, creating an ecosystem where the different parts of the organization spoke to each other and i could force that. then everything worked fine because if=z i tried the6 way, they came up andxçlmq askedon- the decisions by the time it got back down again it was now wrong because the situation had changed too much and we had to up-end it that my role had to change significantly. >> if i could. i think one of the things that we're facing today is the speed in which information is almost bombarding the decision making processes that we are faced with.f.

at the same time making sure that everybody understands that we have one big strategy that we are trying to achieve and i think for the ceos of today and tomorrow, they are dealing withxú"ñ a decision-makingp has fundamentally changed because of the speed the volume of information and how they are able to precisely drive their organization to get them the right type of information while at the same time as what stand is highlighting is the ability to empower the organization down as far as you can to the point where you are almost to be made$bx at a certain level and when you are uncomfortable, you are probably doing the right thing. >> you've written about this topic. the speed that information is9 coming to you.f áp)e in the intelligence

business. intelligence as has formed some of our decisions in the last ten+years. you went so far as to write a paper with two other individuals called "fixing intel" and it was very controversial. you really took the jz. intelligence-gathering process of the united states not scbrus the military the united states toz and you did something else, youlk published that paper outside of the military in a third party publication.lyz-ñvov%t tell me about the leadership decision that went into writing that critique to begin with and t43s publication eutyoutside. it got a lot of attention. >> i think for me, what we saw we saw we needed to move muchzb faster and the/(g intelligence system in the united states was not responding that time as fast as we needed#ñ

it to respond to the essentially 100,000 plus forces you know, óñ!p inter0)ai/eá forces, forward in afghanistan. it wasn't responding rapidly enough. so the other part it wasn't very clear as to what it was that the intelligence community needed to respond to and so that was the -- essentially the genesis of what was the concept of the paper and what was in the paper. why outside and i always tell the story that i publish the same month i published an articleá counterthreat financing and how we counter those and i got no cards or letters on that one. >> it wasn't tweeted anywhere. >> h u a means for this center for new american security which was the organization that we published it through and they have a voices from the field and what i felt it needed was it needed an immediatesóq sort of cold

water, cold bucket of water on the head approach to responding to the needs that we had in a combat environment. >> and it got that response? >> oh, it definitely did. >> was it worth it in the end? the rabl rousing? >> very much so. it change the way the intel the community responded to the ware blr fighter. it also caused us to think about other aspects of our intelligence system that supports frankly we're still involved. i was in the middle ofb 'v a phone call this morning with some folks talking about some of the impacts we are trying to address and we can see them -- the title of the paper, fixingf;iz intel,ñ blueprint you could say a blueprint for north africa, south africa central america or cities and this country. >> you have already today talk about teams, the importance of that kind of organic piece

driving decision making in companies. what exactly is a team and how do you talk aboutb;4mxb3ctw teams with executives and generals who are managing tens of thousands of people? when does a team suddenly become a department or a battalion it just becomes an unwieldly eliminate to integrate into the decision making. >> all of( and we fall in love with the idea we're going to!íp make this company a team. we've all been onvi0rátj j teams and othera gb things where you can had enough familiarity>ubb that you had a common sense of what you were about, identity and what you were trying to do. the problem is that'sxvu not scaleable beyond a certain point. so when group where" interaction, you have to go to something i call team of teams because it can't be one

team. instead what you do is create a number of small teams but then you got to link them so there isj a shared consciousness -- >> this is what you did with special operations. >> yes. we had this siloednviñ yrrñsituation. the reality is they2p-wñ hated each other. there were no diplomatic relations between them. they were too much alike. you know howj it was competitive. we had to knit them together into a team of teams and you had to change the culture across that. that became the biggest part of what i did my focus. >> tell us about the leadership style of al qaeda the taliban, isis. what have we learned about their leadership style? >> wow. so we're facing a incredibly

ideological organization and in many cases individuals and as stan justñ highlighted, very, you it a bit differently, but we're facing a team of teams if you will. their belief system is that something that most of 99% of the people in this country don't truly understand. they are very adaptive. extremely adaptive. they have networks and sub-network and their ability to leverage technology should not be taken for granted. they are very smart the leadership enlightened in some cases i would say in how they function and howd each other how they get their message -

speak to themselves how they learn very -- they are a ÷ñéa1 9%9 organization that pays very close attention to their failures as well as their successes. >> they share lessons learned. >> they share lessons learned. the funny thing is very0:6@eeát of what they do is truly secret. they publish everything. there's four you know, online magazines that they have now. thousands and thousands of foá twitter and social media. it's an interesting organization that is very adaptive particularly at the top and if there's one thing that i would just offer over the years, we've always sort of gone after the leaders and they knew that right up front and so their ability to nurture subleaders or small groups of leadership teams to be

able to take on the cause is actually very good. very good infrastructure. >> isis has an oil minister. >> they are organized in a wayékañ that wouldn't be unlike some other line and block chart type organization, it's just how theyv5 operate. >> you received those papers, you and your broader team received those hard disks and thosejte papers that were taken÷l ñ from the house that osama bin?4 laden was living in. what have you)learned about these organizations?,r7z >> they communicated frequently.dç theyahvjñ definitelyzs iewed what we were doing and they shared what we were doing on a fairly frequent basis. they saw -- again as i just said, they talked about their failures and how they could correcty93&x those failures in order to, you know to basicald>újm

continuc that they have. they saw ma!yñ they looked at iraq very hard as an example. >> was there a poe tense si. >> oh, yeah. they look at what happened with their failure of al qaeda in iraq, particularly$ was killed. they communicated with each other to say here's the things we need to be doing and again they are seeing -- they see themselves as a long-term capability and a long term threat and weú.@ like that. we should not think thatp÷áx they are, youoq÷ñ know, flash in the prdp at all. s÷u" >> what leadership points should we take b"$ experience in afghanistan and iraq?i

we didn't do the due diligence before we went in. we didn't nurture the experts. if we gathered all the 'éwpashtun and airz we could probably fit them on this stage. we go at this with different parts of our government, and yet everybody wants to keep one foot on the basis every agency wants to help but, they want to protect their equities, and you can't do a complex endeavor like this unless you cant build a truly integrated team in which everybody isr& focused.lmrg had great efforts to try to do that, made a lot of progress but it was always difficult, much more difficul!rñ than it should have been. interpersonal, part of that is

organizational equities, part of that is cultures but it stopsw:wf and limits our effectiveness to a tremendous degree and see thatt/+z in the press today the challenge of building truly cohesive teams outside of your cultural sphere. >>.d if you had general ckvpdempsey and president of the united states, president obama now if you had them sit in a room and it was just the three of you, [hkvkt&háhp &hc% what would you advise them from a leadership standpoint in what to do now in afghanistan? >> yeah, i mean, the first k is its inner personal relationships. we're not viewed from the outside as being that way. >> military in general. >> not just emilitary, but it is across state and treasury©b i will tell them to go white water rafting.

when you get in the national security council room, you think about it everyone wears a suite[&1v or a dress and everybody for your fi time,u< q you think hvwp i made it, i'm

outcome. i think that's huge. the strategy part is not that hard. figuring outã:y what to do i think you can do on a saturdayí morning. >> let me just add to that too because i think this is li xhñ critical for damn near anything. part of what we have to dod 1 we have to take a big step2 look at the relationships and the way we've had those relationships over the last 30, 40, 50 years, and say are those relationships still solid, are they still 0 ÷'d? do we have to form new relationships? do we have to change the wa a2 we relate to each other? and this is not just in afghanistan, this is throughout the middle east, this is throughout the asia theater. >> us or our allies. >> us with our allies, our friends, our partners around the world. internally as stan highlighted is exactly right and the thing i would highlight there is that

people need to be better prepared. you need to understand what it is that we are facing and you can't go with --á,gf i'm beings" little bit pejorative you can't govv)í with whatl@gu you see in the headlines. you have to have a much deeper understanding not%r%x only in your lane, but you also have to have an understanding of each other's, you know, issues that they are dealing with, and i think that if we are lacking something right now, and we were just trying to -- what's the1" ideology, which direction is÷+@cñ al qaeda going because it's more than al qaeda, it's china it's all of the various competitors that are out there, we have to have a much deeper underst wng of sort of who is who out there and really take a hard look at our relationships and say one, do we want to maintain0"9 that relationship or two, do we want to change that relationship?uí @r(t&háhp &hc% change it diplomatically politically, economically

military to military, whatever. we can't just sit back and again i'm being generalizing a little bit but we can't just sit back and accept that these guys are always been there, our friends, they have always been there for us and they are always going to be there for us. that's not true today. >> you being an expert on those relationships between afghanistan, having run intel for general mcchrystal in afghanistan, what happens now in afghanistan? we're down to about 10,000 troops. the mission of those 10,000 troops seems to be morphing slightly perhaps be a little bit more active but 10,000 troops, it's a weak president what happensám now in afghanistan? does it go the way of iraq? >> yeah. i think that the threat that we face and the threats":!:ñ pleural that we face, they arez4qcñ all

paying very close attention to what is going ona r(t&háhp &hc% east. that's a given. that's something that we're aware of. i think that what we really have afghanistan do is to understand how they will begin to operate and -- what responsibilities they are going to have to take on. it'sbg ghani, it has to do9gñ with now"ciq more dealing with this change and what we don't want -- what we don't want to do we don't want to decrease the confidence of 6tqr' internatiw ç community that just spent a lot of treasure on them and actually when we look at th occurred in that region, in the central asia region of the world, we have to pay very close attention to not just how we feel today but what that region could potentially be ten years ä%a.ynow. >> that's what we want to happen

and want to have ãhappen.h&b,w the trajectory that we're'jn on [ pr(t&háhp &hc% now,nób%x is that likely to be the case, that there's#k continued cohesiveness to what's going on in afghanistan or does it unravel? >> i think it stays -- i think for the next couple of years we're probably going to be a bit status quo. i think that's where we'refgh going to be, and in afghanistan and president ghani isbúç going to have to step up a little bit and he's trying, he'sçn9obo6fdoing some things to introduc+[ corruption efforts and things like?o2óy that but again it's nayx something that's going to happen overnight. it's like everything else. it will take time and frankly, there's a commitment that we have to have i think from the allow themzñ to continue to contribute in some way, some fb4l-

literally a pariah kind of statecyi, such as like a somalia became ankñ frankly otherç#stx places on the planet are becoming. >> we're going to go to questions in just a second but one more question for the two of you(.í> about your own persona»ago cf1 o leadership style. so general mcchrystal,$ difficult rolling stone article to contend with. in it, some of your subordinates were found to be criticizing the administration.r14qq'eral flynn, we expected it to be a three-year term at dfia, it turn out to be in a term and some of the vibe coming out in the coverageunao is about disagreements on how much change was being asked for and whether be pushed that far. what is your experience about

the leadership style of individuals who are rolling the dicetcúd changing the paradigm wanting to -- in the goodbx be change agents,&qjy in the minds of their critics5 people who say this isn't working, let's pushp3:r decision making down and what have you learned?e?1[ñ >> first of all,jabpl i'm one that's constantly a learning individual, if it's anything i learn in working for great leaders over my e.r career is maintain vyour integrity and never compromise your principles. be prepared to compromise on issues but not on your r5óñ principles, and"8jz at the same time as i grew up over -- particularly the last decade but if not the last 15, maybe half of çcareer, you know, for

me it was see things that were happening arou%kd6v the environments that we are in and a lot of my experience has been as a -- as a senior(:h intelligence officer in global organizations organizations that had global missions, so i saw these changes and i watched the community that i was growing up in, the u.s.>9ñ intelligence community,rj÷ wasn't changing÷ta basically in a way that i felt needed to adapt to this future that we are facing. and i can get into8ífs kinds of details about that and that's on one hand. on the one hand, it's also the things that you see are happening around you, isis -p3g-e east, andt q china and everything going on with this whole snowden affair flex, those are things you take a stand on something and you have to argue your stance, again you stick with what you believe and

frankly, at a certain point in time, as a soldier, you say, you know, roger, i understand where i'm at and here's my timeline and i step ú away. >> úógñgeneral? >> mike and i worked together in a daek and he used to come in my office at night and tell me how to command and he was invariably right. they told me i was going to take command of afghanistan that night, before we went home, mike came into mynapx office and said here's my advice to you don't change the way youq,x lead and i remember that because when you suddenly go to very senior levels, four star ceo whatever it is there arepyv pressures and suddenly you think you gotñéb to be a different21sáson because you got to the political sphere and media sphere more there's this siren's call should i be something thanmfb ié# aven't had to be what do i do andeáq9$s advice

is something i kept close to my fayyn] heart the entire time. we went to afghanistan in the summer of;3!=y2009. it was unpopular war in the states, in europe, it was failing inside afghanistan. there was great pressure --x vx what do you say -- do you say what you really think we must do? ej%ñ do you sortt8= say you think what people want to hear what's going to play. we made the decision not to do that. we made the decision fixing intelligence and with the strategic assessment that we didcyñ to call it in a "irñ thatdeh[ i was actually comfortable now that's still.;ú intellect you'lly honest. that's a lot harder than it seems. there are subtle pressures on you to adjust what you say and pull your punches a little bit but i was happy when we didn't do that and people ask me i regret the rolling stone article, i don't really regret anything else. i think if we had not gone at it with that same idea that we're

going to do it right so we can>@c look ourselves< later that i will regret that much more. >> questions. yes, right here on the end. get a microphone up there. we have just a couple of minutesn&ìáhp &hc% here. so just ask you to keep it short. >> okay. great. first of all generals, thank you both for your service to the country, and what i think is!a- probably the most honest mission of anyone in this room protecting this great country, so thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you. [ applause ] >> the questionp spokeó(r(÷ about leadership and kind of one of the main topics of adjusting to a newzñbworld,i4v new nwo@@r(t&háhp &hc% environment, turning your leadership style upside down orj,(r(t&háhp &hc% with the delta force realizing you were managing a team ofyb9kñ teams, but is there a consistency to what a soldier would expect when you arrive at

that became your consistent message? for me its accountabilityyi ñ is one of thuwyrz words but is there a consistency that's traveled with you that they wouldl][ expect when you stepped and talked to them for the very first time? >> what's the key message a leader should deliver? >> for me it's values. everybody in an organization needs to understand what the valuesx2f of that organization are, and probably the principal value for me is teamwork, so if i show up to an organization people know -- you know anybody that sort of tracks what flynn has done in other placesrgâz it's going to be to look at the organization and make surevue that we're ready not just for today,8 but for the future, but to get there, i think the principal value for me has always v>vjz teamwork and you'll operate as part of a team. >> i think genuineness and you are part way through yourfxé career, until you've led a few

time.rthe best thing i ever heard is a guy who worked for/sm me other soldiers would come and ask him what's the deal with him and he responded one timeö) and he said general mochrystal is the real ;- ñ deal. the soldiers forgive for being incompetent, making mistakes all that, but they won't forgive> we have one more question. we have one minute. let's get a microphone right here. quick question. >> thoughts on snowden and what steps need to be taken to reestablish the moral authority of the u.s. both to its people as well as internationally. >> severe damage dq to the nationalu security of this country and there just needs to be -- it's back to the things we've been talking about, which has to do with relationships, and i think that we need to reflect on what

have with -- the united states needs to have with russia. >> sometimes relationships areñ more important than policies. short-term policy things you want sometimes have to be sacrificed to maintainqwrxc@r(t&háhp &hc% relationships and maintain our credibility in those and i think that's very important. i think the snowden case mined many as other actions have. weú#i$ need to focus on that. >> thank you very much for your thoughts. >> thank you. [ applause ] coming up at 8 easternlp7#á on c span 3, a house veterans subcommittee looks into military cemetery operations with a closej' look at expanding the system and improving assistance to families. that's on c span 3 tonight7=./bmnáñ starting at-- >> with live coverage of the u.s. house on c spanúcy andr senate on c span 2 here on 3,

we complement that by showing you the most important hearings and@/", events.ñ÷ the civil war's 150f8:ñ anniversary, visiting bab ~fields and keyr american artifacts and touring sites. history bookshelf with the bests0u÷ known american history writers the presidency looking at the policies and leg yaeses of@2wbñ our lectures in history with top college professors delving into america's best. c span 3, created by the cable tv industry. watch us in hd, like us on facebook, and follow us on0gp# twitter. house budget paul ryan now at the annual meeting÷q of the wall street

journal]dnñ council in washington, d.c. earlier this y2s#] month. he spoke for about half an hour.ñcqrç >> good morning. >> good morning. >> congressman, thanks for coming back to the ceo council. it's good to have you here. i know it's been another busy vaax ÷ time. why don't we start by talking about what's tax extenders deal. are we going to get a one-year extension? >> the president blew up the deal. we had a( w good one agreement bipartisan with harry reid. we are going to give permanent extension of r and d credit. >> that's going to complicate your task next year? >> yes do on

adds more uncertainty to the business climate. >> one question about this one objection was the earn income tax credit was not beinga>1ñhv5v extended. is something you t&z!be about you supported? >> that's right. >> even though you are unhappy about thatu:)ñ point?b$b.y >> i do inten of taking up the igsj÷ms/;@÷ issue of p earned income tax credit. i think the eitc works well and it needs to be improved and some issues need to be addressed with those are stimulus parts of the tax code. these were intendedbñ and sold to congress,b0b congress they were temporary now they are asking for them to be permanent. we thought a deal was a deal. >> so in that ats, what's your honest assessment of the cngv-(5ñ$wúx÷ for!fzd goodknñefñ reform really

taking shape next year? >> it will not be for lack of trying.really taking shape next year? >> it will not be for lack of >> we think it's the key cornstone for economic rçrégrowth. we're goingwfv focus on growing to work, faster economiclf$ growthájj solves so manyproblems. tax reform is key to that. so we intendleydñ on taking the issuedjp up. the reason i hesitate to sayl it's going to get done i don't know where this white house is going to comeaf things. it's important tot2n5 addition to c-corp reform which we want to haverkñ a 25% rate in an international base where repatriation day is anyrzñds day you want it to be eight out of tenbc8;í korps, not pass throughs. we want to help all businesses

to get faster economic "a27ñgrowth. do that, it's clear for% " p people?ñ like paulrdvlo ryan and hatch. >> we7c also have to remember we can't ignore the individual side of the code. perhaps with this president that's no. he's -- he like highe>cyac tax rates which i think hurts economic growth but we -- if we can get halfway toward comprehensive?6 tax reform as a good step in the right direction, i think that's we'll see if we can get it. venling you are open to just tackling the corporate side of things. >> mind you that pass throughs?ñ pay their taxes on the other side@sdxk! code.6bb that is a big wrinkle on this. i don't know where the administration will come down on these issues. >> they have indicated that they are open to that. >> we'veí8b#u been talking. we'll exhaust3%a the possibilities.@ z9 >> what about dynamic scoring?

to get it done do you have to have dynamic scoring? >> i.gk think the right way to describe it is we should have the mostefbaccurate score keeping possible and one thing that congress does not do now in itsblú score keeping, itubqpt assumes that people's behavior will not change if taxes change. that's ridiculous. so we know that's not accurate. so i would rather call it just accurate scoringz .y or ñulñ reality-based scoring, and so we will improveñ capabilities so that that we can have the most accurate score keeping possible because we think it's important÷dd that policy$w a makers make decisions with the best information possible and if we don't do that, then we're going to do taxj reform where we leave thezx=r economic growth on the table. we want to make sure that the ÷dt>aions we make are# the possibilities for growth and t$ potential for growth, and we want the measuring stick we used to make sure that we can take that into account when we enact c reform. >> it sounds like we can expect

to see changes in thetéhhouse on the scoring. >> you can expect changes to make more r1 accurate our scoring keeping. >> and you've been -- while you've been careful about not getting too deep into some of the policy details from your perspectc*uá you are9(j>q a> i think dave camp deserves a 1khweìáhp &hc% lot of credit for taking on what really was a heroic effort. you mentioned score keeping a second ago. one of the handcuffs that he had to have placed upon him in trying;p+ to deal÷rúbl and divide a government with a senate controlled by the democrats'3bq÷ was the score keeping the revenue targets, there are other issues. hopefully we can improve those uiñaé cf1 o things, so we can improve the product that the committee produces. i see the camp draft as a marker. not necessarily a starting point

but a marker. there is&f inescapable conclusion no matter how you going to lower our tax rates we're going to have to tax rates to be competitive for faster economic growth, means you will see closure of loopholes in order to get it. using better scor+ it may change the nature and scope of that but nevertheless it is something that has to happen in order to have lower tax rates. >> you are in a room of 1503íbl ceos so what do you need from#r5e them to achieve what you've talked about? dúç5z with us to see the big picture and end of the day and the horizon. what we're after at t(+@v end of the day is a very globally and internationally competitive tax system so the place that you want capital to be destined is america, so that

domiciled is america so that our tax system is putting the best possible position to succeed, grow, create jobs and to invest.!,q don't think so much about the narrow tax expenditure that may be in the purview, lane our area, but look at the end protd which is lower tax rates and a smarter international tax basescóç you want to bring capital back from overseas, you should be ableócçç to bring it@ you want to. at the end that's what you should be able to do. >> it was pr=x2!q aground, do you feel a different atmosphere in the house for those kind of -- >> again dave he had to work -- within the co2qj of issue i think that made it hard if not impossible to write the perfect tax reform billnq0 there's no such thing as the

perfect tax reform bill, because he had the restrictions placed upon him, the rules hetkqññ worked with@ difficult to write a piece ofo9h7ç legislation. at the same time, you've got(ñ(ár an administratiovklthat just likes high which is bad for growth, especially bad for pass thrurkss and so that became a problem in and of itself. hopefully what we can do is with more accurate score keeping with the smart tools that we need:ú%ñnjy tool)fu do,[ s write good pro growth tax legislation, we can and hopefully elsie what it is as a good step in the right direction. the way i telljz5 people[g reform is going to happen. it's going to happen because it must happen for our economic elingt, for our survival, for our competitiveness, it's going to happen. the question is when. it's either one or three years from happening. it's either going to have tof167tr(t&háhp &hc% happen in 2015 or 2017 the way i see it.

sooner will be betterñgk! the way i dw3%%9-9 but we'll see. >> what about trade? that seems to be an area where there's some meeting of the minds between the house and the administration? are you optimistic on xwkvttrade? >> i'm cautiously optimistic. i'mnhqry not$; dismissive of the administration's abilities on working with congress, brfvnz this is one of the issues wbd& we want to see a good successful agreement with &p;. we want to open up markets. this is an enormous amount of global '?én e i think it's a great opportunity. we have to get it right dealing with the hill, tpa, others, the japanese have a flash[flaokyi election on december 14thcif>u i think. hopefully wit«8$u$ose behind abe, that freeze up his hand to come closer to the bargaining table. we have issues with japanñ still that need to be resolved. it's really important that this agreement does not set us back

with respect to a precedent on our othera agreements so ifxha we can get apbagd agr!tju with 3.s tpp, japan being the a good leverage point as!1o the flash elections and get tpp through congress, then i'm optimistic we can get "urj done and open up export markets and 6xñ help continue to set the stage1 direction. this is something that america should bej4" leading in and the factdkjf that we've not had agreee#:idáttu)páed successfully in this administration gives me a little pause. the ones that we passed were negotiated by the past sthrags,w"yk administration. this one doesn't have experience. i want to make sure in the closing months thaty® right. >> you are for fast ÷ xtrack. >> trade promotional authority is what we.#ey callp44v it.3>u >>n other? >> i don't think we shouldn't.

i thinkp÷h welfare for low income tax individuals, we should reform welfare for businesses as well. i think it's important for economic reasons. i think it's important for moral authority "#wreasons, and with the new majority coming in i think we'll have more people in the house for sure andúrn qbh2 definitely in the senate subscribing to the view i just mentioned.~ your/2/ç editorial page has done a scplar job29rñxj. --x5"gñ spectacular job of fleshing thisó& out. >> i want to go into entitlements a little bit. you also mentioned the"l÷ time you spent on poverty. you spent a lot of time traveling &sn(around, visiting a lot of areas, thinkingl w about poverty. after that experience, how will you be a different ways and means chairman in 2015 thanmfñj you might have beenjó w in 2013 or 2011? >> i guess emphasis and focus.

one of the priorities i intend onqíy 9%9 time on is producing fasterl mobility and removing the barriers that make ita hard for pt to get up and on their way in life and i do believe that this committee has so much jurisdiction in this. it's the committee in charge of our welfare laws and so i really believe that it's time for what i would call welfare reform osfr2.0. when we reformed welfare in 1996, that was one program. the last two years in addition to traveling the country, and meeting with just heroic people doing a phenomenal2ñm fighting poverty you know, grassroots groups doing a great job, we also4x federal government programsu are in the$b poverty fighting "ñ space. v 0 federal government had look at all the federal government does in the space ofaq1÷ fighting and addressing4b c poverty and so no

such analysis existed so not that we spend we look at each of these programs arei they v":z%9 even done thatar before. the point is it's a real mixed bag and theç second point is all[ákíç of the success and now the 50th anniversary on the@.ú%ñ ofí÷q poverty with trillions of dollars spent has been based solely onzf inputs and we have not been measuring it on outcomes. this is how you run your businesses. we should4

have -- rç effectiveness onu outcomes, not inputs. we want to take that, get those metric and translate ith'p into better public policy so focus on reworking our policiesb;j"y so we can start ,1%yreworking our7má=t public policies with.wó@ the eye toward gettinhzpeople off of welfare and in to work, we need an overall in our t.s approach. i think it'sd2t>s absolutely essential if we want to1f0ña reignite the american position of your birth does nota.4÷ -- wú&rd can fix that."% >> it's a bipartisan bill? >> yes.é >> you think? >> the wayxr i look at the next two years is get what you can get done for the sake of the (4 economy, for![)!economic growth for making a difference on these÷

issues, and then really3 get ready to govern. look i tried to do t;q! agreements comprehensive budget agreements with this white house for a long time. it's very clear that the president is not fundamental entitlement reform, so get readypz@l to govern. l get in the cue. occur to1kñ crisis. by the way, we still (] this debt out there. a lot of people like to thinkrrviñ it's not the problem anymore. it's still out there. just so you know. let's get prepared. let's prepare. let's get the policies ready. let's get all the things you need to dox ready, and let's go take it to the american people. and let's show the country what a real thoughtful thorough agenda of us off this debt crisis looks like, of economic growth of a strongspfeçk?÷%(÷q z foern ;+3lfc5áey defense. shows if you have a right

government in[gí8ç place can beçf#i eif he can waited as soon as possible.35bl@)1 o

>> whata looks like for you so i really do believe this law not simply because i desire that+++drjñu you're known as a policy wonk, you're known for being a family man who's worried about the

impact of m0t policy on your kids and going home for the çby?weekend. are you ready to declare that you're not going to be a candidate in 2016, like senator portman did today?om+m >> i don6jrruj)q ust told me back in the green room. that's aj decision that i have long been saying, i'll deal with it in 2015, right now i want to focus on 2014 issues. i'm a person that likes deadlines and timelines and i'm sticking to my "! so i'll make the decision in 2015. >> what are going to be the keyhñx deciders? as as. >> as i said, people know meix that's number one in my mind. i don't have to be the guy, i have never thought like that. where can]úm i make the difference? and plenty of other considerations as well. >> you have talked about the field of other contenders and looking out there, af zothe election, there's been some

faces including scott walker in your home state getting a little more national attention. there's lots of gop governors who arejè >> i'mwnot going to touch theasyfú next question with a 10-foot pole that you're about to ask me, just so you know but yes there are a lot of good quality people. >> that's comforts. >> let me try it this way, when you look at the+íitz -- >> go ahead, give it attn? shot. >> why don't we open it up? >> no, but it's a real question there's a lot of smart different experimentation going on on the state level, a lot of governors areíñ1 >> for sure. >> and who do you look out at across theím9f> a lot of them are friendsu mine. let me give you a general case. a great guy, has a huge margin."a!$ he's done some great work scott+g$#k in wisconsin, people think it's just -- don't j

value of the education $0 that come with this. getting rid of last and first -- it's really impressive pyydzreforms. look what sam brownback did in kansas? look what mike pence has done in indiana. i can go on and on and all of those people are friends of minex.h%bju people i have served with or u grew up with. >> is there anything that looks more appealing than other alternatives, are there any particular approaches more appealing to you? >> why don't we open it up to the -- >> let's do thatg do we have questions from the audience? yes, please, let's get a microphone over here. >> okay. >>@&# matt and i wereoaw÷ talking about this at denver, damage hamburger with devie education group. >> you're not a big fan of the administration these days. >> we have our moments, but we try to do a good job for our students. >> you do. >> thank you.

the idea is workforce. the old model of you know you go to college and you just work the rest of your life and that's all the training9qh that's dead, we know there's a pacing of technology, and a big coming from the employers and the big corporations whof ) have training and reimbursement -- those are cappedl at $5250. because people sort of look through theú&v the personal income. that hasn't changed in 20 or 30 years. >> so you're; exemption? >> yes, but you're levering a lot of private sector money in the process, because 34sthat's kind of the limit anyone. and so byz3 then leverfqr a lot of private money for retraining? >> yes. >> so let's back up and look at all the money that we spend, we just -- one of the bipartisan

successes of thishg: y0$ we looked at the 49 different job training programs spread acré4"n át different agencies of?k]í federal government in job training and we dramaticallybc,! streamlined and overhauled them sending the money backh united states, so they can go to the individual inlvñ the form of a scholarship, or tourvbg the employer themselves who can set up the curriculum, or to the< &)veddevrys or whatever. this is very to the poverty protocol. >> giving the money to not making the decision. >> it's our approach on most things. do you run -- that wa &háhp &hc% interesting.elv >> someone wal@ui right now. >> so do you do the bureaucrat tickc(,@ progressive big government one size fits all, top down washington knows p9 ñ approach. or do you run the resources through the individual?

health care, retirement security education through the individual into a marketplace where you all get to compete against each other for oureógr(t&háhp &hc% business as people. i think i know what mottom(c]=i-m better. but right now, we have, you know, and%+ that we're trying to deal with her, to accomplish our objectives. by the away we could save so much money and have so many more people if we9y,p went to a choice ua based, marketplaced approach on all of these 8 ythings, be it health care, education or retirement or whatever. and in education you ask, and0"sñ think you could take the tens of billionsf8. ofg$ u dollars we spendb1 year and do that before getting into a tax issue. because needlessly you're raising anotherb rates by having more expenditures. >> another question? something else? yes, please, right here.zi2r >> i was zy;ódisappointed to hear about the one-year extension on

accelerated depreciation, is there any hope that we can do something to make that at least a two-year --:ó1 >> we would like to have it permanent. we passed in the house, bonus appreciation[l(;$tq)manence inkijáñ house that was in this agreement that the president blew up. so we're going to have to go back to(rlss drawing board.h intentions clear, where we were)]5f trying to get to, but you're going to have to wait fw6f another round of legislative session, and if he blew up this last< more years, we'll see.?!&lñqñbri congressman paul ryan. >> you know where we're trying to go.u >> congressman paul ryan, thank you. >> thank you. here's what's aheadf1h eçm

constitution. and later police conduct and civil rights. >> 1/2 of congress is still in session this week with the u.s. house having finished its business lastanq ñéñweek. the senate fresh from approving a $1.1t trillion spending bill iso;ue6dl wrapping up their work with the extension of the executive -- a3d4d(you can watch the senate life on cspan 2, of course see the housevw n onn9á this week on q & a author and town hall.coml")c÷ editor katie .kbfz;uj pavlich on what she pe( liberals and theirza izéw rhetoric. >> as you say it goes back to ted kennedy? >> it goes back to where the ki,.t&háhp &hc% idea for$y this book&k came frok was the 2002 convention when they were showing this tribute video because he

portraying him as a'cf women's rights champion when he leftíhcj a young woman to drown. p,9 his car. and if he had not gone back for nine hours and tried to save his÷gywg own behind, she would have probablyt @uñ xsúo÷auzá(vived. and you can't do an entire video=lt at aág.ç convention claiming to be preaching andj7pur'g about the war on women and glorify someone like that while not including that part of his life in a video about his women's rights record. >> sunday night at 8:00a" eastern and pacific on cspan's1dñçhk q&a and to mark ten years of q and a we'rerkhx marking each prlvy)6 at 5zcb coming up the house veterans affairs subcommittee looks into military cemetery operations, to include additional burial facilities improveá z6s inçú gravef9é÷ accountability practice,

from earlier this month this is about an hour 45 minutes./ sk 2k good afternoon 7óy6ñeveryone, this oversight hearing of the subcommittee of .xdisabilities and memorial affairs will now come to order. we are here today to examine the issues facing our military veterans cemeteries. our goal in this hearing is to !2$ó learn more about theq4 operations of the national cemetery administration, arlington national cemetery and the american battle monuments commission over the past year, as well as the organization's commentary on issues that i will be highlight highlighting momentarily. i would also like to welcome mr. walters as he has;my>y stepped up to perform duties as acting undert÷n secretary of memorial affairs aft:

and we look forward to hearing about his vision for overskiing the honorable mission at the nca.r9@1$g mr. highland and cleveland, it is also nice to have you here as well.0!2rc the endeavors ofj1$ these entities are a=ap the most honorable inl'i government and the people4t& with these organizations workday qo m and day out to honory@vcç veterans ando%!x service members with:ñ dignified burials and to help family members and loved ones who must deal with loss and tremendous gp( our solemning those who serve does not cease atghúzqñ the etched of their0 ú retirement or ultimately upon their death and it is the responsibility of these organizations to see thisg3atd commitment through. i would7-&u !4mdo >!mbthat today will be my last hearing as subcommittee chair and thatgçhzp i am extremely pleased that today'slih

tremendous work of these "f organiz7j2sj your commitment -- your commitment tov;4yñ these -- theñmbeñ timeless honor of our nation's veterans and theçnc.yfvbx compassionate missions of nca, arlington national cemetery and abmc. i have been proud to work with all of u you over the recent years and i trust that you will continue to go above and beyond to care for our nation and our national and international shrines.ût that saidy today, the committee is interested in hearing from the national cemetery administration on several focused areas including continued efforts to provide burial access initiatives for rural 1 veterans those planned for urban areas and other future outlets for burialf/ we will also hear about new regulation it was aimed to address an issue which was discussed at ac

regarding requests for headstones anddñs markers made by those other than next of kin. i also look forward to hearing updates on arlington national cemetery, and i note for the record mr. hallerman has done ah1vcz tremendous jobqm;c< want to make sure that the standards that he putcb;ñ forward. and thank you mr. l00hallerman for!rf5 your%]vn truly tireless mission.76í 2014 is a significantá7f-÷ commemo0:': year form> nation and the monuments commission. we'll be hearing updates on the far reachingn8vkh area of abmc which:] operates in 16 countries and many other locations. secretary cleveland, thank you continued services;+ for being here today abmc is a remarkable

organization and we appreciate hearing from you. now iñbú3 formallys] welcome])cdñ our witnesses as noted these panelists play a significantaéf role in ensuring that we fulfill our responsibilities to all of those who have served for us. the questions and discussions that will occur&vq today, we workyñ collectively not only to meet the challenges, but also to exceed the standard. first mr. ronald walters acting secretary for memorial affairs is here on behalf of national cemetery administration,"] oversees 131 cemeteries nationwide, mr. walters is accompanied by mr. glen powers, deputy under&9d secretary for fieldh(bnbxjn" programs. next we will have mr.pl@t÷ patrick hallerman, executive director of army national military centers,

and will also testify on panel 1. in his role mr. hallerman is challenged1ldáñ wit$kksoverseeing arlington national cemetery and %p] commission is with us today.- secretary secretary secretary b]fzba1.qclelan will -- we will also hear from a amy miller whod&xñ is thet0&'ñ director in outreach and education in tragedy assistance program for survivors. complete, i also thank your member who was not on this committee but who has expressed ofdma epresentative stooifrs who's not here yet, be allowed to participate in this

hearing no objections,4 so]mj/ñ =8t;#/ñ ordered. 2'k you all form y being with us today, and i now yield to the ranking member for her opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you for having this hearing. i guess this is our grand finale. i suspect this will be the last time that our subcommittee during this session and i want to thank you for your leadership, and tell you what a pleasure it's been to work with you and your staff on this committee and then i think vålñ!ifwell served by yourik approach to these issues. >> i want to thank you for that also, because it'sd&bñ a two-way street. thank you for your commitment and your passion. >> i also want9&0vç to+f"wx thank the speakers who are here.o=jq especially secretary cleland from4rdfv georgia, i know you share our feelings that our obligation to our veterans and maybe

families is a solemn obligation that we need to uphold. theljy= national cemetery administration has grown

conserved by a national cemetery continues to be nevada, which is the home to over 'rh 230,000#tñ 83v veterans, aa in the las vegas area. so iní< total, there are 11 states with a combined veteran population of 1.8 million whon do not have an active national cemetery.4 and because most of those states are )lu0wz west, that's a lot of square miles that is covered that doesn't have that access.z0ñ r%jttó:?v-bañ áét$ these urban initiatives are great, but you have proposed them for los angeles which already has two national cemeteries and new york that's

served by three. this is good but it's really a matter of convenience not a matter of necessity. those cities$láu mayóe not have perfect access,yj[z but certainly in a lot better shape k who's got to tryztñú four hours to bfhcalifornia bakersal field to&4ç get to a national cemetery. in and salt lake city,ísbq youwi? have to trave4mtvñ eight hours for burial and the closesteyá

a letter to then( -- we need a policy on that rigxfr now it's rather capricious, it's case by case, and even if it works for national cemeteries the state %dí(cemeteries have t policies and9 doesn't seem to be fair to me to!ok our veterans and their families.mpand finally, something that's just o recently come to myt éx attention, is that veteran who is serve in theliá$ armed services÷ ;ç are at a disadvantage in another ó way. if you areñ ñethe spouse of5c!kñd veteran and you pass away, you can be buried in a +>q;veteran's cemetery, even if the veteran"çfw is still alive so the family g "uátjt together. unfortunately, current law family member ofñjs anén# active duty service member who passes$:vcñ away simple -- because some of these

things only make it fair for veterans and their families, allq: veterans and=xiw their families and rather in?a dealing with them in one way"tat nationalhzsxñl]]úz cemeteries, another in state and on akkiñ case-by-case basis, let's work together to create a policy. so i look forward to hearing all of your testimony, and especially alb ] from the monuments commission too how certain cut back and kim%resources will affect the service that you provide. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you, gentle lady. advise the witnesses that your r(jeá t written statement will bejf:ñ entered into the record. we'rj first witness from the+][ [ca mr. walters, you're now rkmq/-r-ed for five minutes for your testimony.'if %a÷ea >>v;ñññ chairman l

member titus and distinguished members of the jhqsubcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide a review of the nationalc&!ñóevfp cemetery adminm'jpáion's operations and our plans for continuing to meet the needs of veterans and theirkykjñ#zxihlies. i'm accompanied today by lynne powers, deputy secretaryvnú for ó))a programs. i would also like to recognize÷ómy mc=x our shared commitment to honor and memorialize our z 8nation's svet trans isro"juáuh @r(t&háhp &hc% our continued partnership.? er(rpr)man under secretary mcdonald's leadership, 3phñ#1 q7bqó(t&háhp &hc% departmentzqlcz recently launched my va an ambitiousxyagx1-5ú effort to reorganize the department to one that is centered around our customer, the veteran. defined and will7çm7,ujt)á nca] beuz the q)oi?ñ#future.

consistent withdy) measures the success)lb" against t7haé ultimate outcome for the veteran, direct feedú ç back from our customers lets us know if we're achieving those outcomes. 1c reported in gñ2014,m5&nñ for the fifth consecutive tiñévb nca achievedm recorded for a public or private organization on the american customer satisfag6 thanks to oury!5ñ$l÷ employeepa score of 8ckñ96 wasehp the 68 point average for federal government agencies. ourñzdró1ñ employees are nca'sázh best assets and we value their feed back.. thalyear, i am5ì pleased to report that nca úz@hincreaseded it'sha participation rate in va's8q all employee survey by 10%. < nca@ i@,p o the successful design of my

this is especially true of nca's workforce, ekx:eu9ms74% of which are veterans, the highest percentage in the federal government.)@y/rvññáknf 6áá ioñxu employees are also more than willing to reach out to those ins need of a second chance, i am pleased to continue our effortsgq)yñ to end veteran homelessness. two years$ú÷ ago, nca established a cemetery caretaker4w:

workload requirements in 2014 through our operation and maintenance program, we ma#x+e'ed over 3.4 million - ták performed]ir overgfáqx 125,000 [h

5 new national cemeteries two in florida, which jjs÷ will open this year, and onec8f2u each intfjgy

÷=6mç efforts. #cï11e weyd best share our rich histories of our nationalgjx cemeteries and our stories of our nation'st)áv heroes with the public through a variety of sources. mr. chairman, we look forward to committee, to care for th2 who have born the b#udñbattle. and we@v÷ of your< have done for our nation's] veterans. kty thank you again for this opportunity to be here today and i would be pleased to answer any questions that you may have.m >> thank you mr. walters and with that we'll now hears' from mr. hallw]k4oz for you are recognized for five minutes.7égñ >> chairman runnion, rankingvb member titus and ranking members of the subcommittee.mcl sincew p÷ subcommittee a year ago, we continue to build upon ourm@fv tremendous progress.fr we are setting industry

standards for best practices becoming better veterans whilelnöfuuju)r'g closely with organizations i am proud toäf testify about today. we have lef ran[>caa o' -- cutting edgel j technology that usesklá an internment system to provide real time mapping and a common operational picture of activities at the cemetery.ó+ our internment service system upon for identification for burial locationi it providesñ=&j access to'] digitized burral8 yal records and stores@7(,av6notographs of the the kas at the time and the unat each electronic internment -- -÷úmudmkoz of !rx strictest chain ofkx-4 custody ofí

any -- field operational status completevevc funeral procession routes while alsoocs gravesite and headstone p.=l esgps=3x locations which are accurate to with÷r systems in concert assure accountability and efficiency in our operations at arlington nationalu i? cemetery. to keep up with increasing requests fore4&b÷ burial at arlington cemetery we make every effort to make sure all ourã&4@ trained to thu highest standardsrf"@ñ when dealing with families andç treating each with respect and dignity. in october, we began the renovation ofqbñ ourbñ $hu táát center restrooms to improve our zñ÷ visitors' 7cvpexperiencing. we are currently renovating the basement of the welcome center to provide work spaces for our staff. another one of our g fiscal year 2015 é?a¢#$z is the redesign and improvedgxw manner in,mógo

cf1 o which we gather and escort funeral processions, we are 'vpz designing a new funeralmlñ possession that will make our funeral lineup muchoía5=i intuitive and easier to negotiate. i'm also pleased to inform they0fj ,q17[u! me and planning and plans that are wellgdf4ñpfm under way for the tombs[o this will pro-- in may 2014, we refurbished the display room wßéiku museum quality cases to properlyr@ protect itemskq!l gifted to the tomb of the unknown s/wq). we have recently completed an +);páq'sibility studyv:soñ and will hope us institute+d= projects tov vñb that our national shrine is accessible to all those who want to visit.

the cemetery staff°z -- daily utility infrastructure. in 2011n1" we2p

dedicatedj@q support.m( with diligentd:zj efforts, establishedi/6p2[ procedures, repeatable processes, embedable institutionalized stan zards arlington cemetery jq will embed the trust with which the --zà÷ ;(ñ-ery burial service at arlington national cemetery will] .] continue to be conducted with the honor and dignity our serving members have earned and their families have been treated with compassion and respect. thank you and i lookmn(yf forward to answering any questiov have. that i'lll" recognize secretary cleland fors6g i >> thank you mr. chairman may i say it's an honor to be with you again mr. chairman ands. members of the x we will miss you mr. chairman, we'll missiw(÷u>a we'll miss talking our mission and we'll miss as ms. typ!.2 r#zww#o3

uhp &hc% said, your fair even handed approach to these issues in a[ou÷ bipartisan way. it's rare in this town and i for one really appreci!-it. we'll miss you.3]4÷e!bxz÷ secondly p$s÷0h hmc ir/ñpji wanted to meet with over/w last few w÷ years i have really:62 gotten to know them. and i can tellg u(48÷ you thatfz /tsñ patrick2 2& hellernan is to the leader of the pack out there. i was talking to the secretary of the army about four years ago to head up an advisory3c committee on the arlington national cemetery, they have comelaaq light years in four years, i can tell you that.k?%5ñ now they gotv;f good technology that can launch a satellite. it7 0ó psp-ing.íd [nñ transformation that the they have put together out there.&< z

the d mr. chairmanú0g used to head that the head many many yem andjgñ we areçú25ájjt closely with &át secretary and met with secretarybbvdñ mcdonald and we're in agreement, particularly on some sensitive issue,4 ñ regarding the punch bowl -- we're working closely with all6#i of the people7vx at the l4fbtable, and i say in terms of arlington, that the american battle monuments commission hasmreú putjc charged/ aiaison officer there on site and he's doing a great job. he spent 17 years in western europe andú$dz÷4í[ñhe's an #hvz benefit, ia one of our staff members is on theñ' advisoryp ñ cemeteries andb÷bñm>>aqqbmpu worksk]e

his name ist;añ tom sol. i havei@0 have laboredám+'÷ in thea#%ñ vineyard of commission for a long time. hysm]+kñ our chief financial officer and mike connelly, ourz:x administrativevdk officer, we're just honored to be with him today. i would just say that last night i saw the movie based on the and it was a powerful testimony a1 t one z 1 kyk=xij yx8yky[ghúñ louie zaborini unbelievabóñmx unbelievable story but thec amazing thing think that he was one of 16 million service members caught u up in world war ii,tyíñ it was worldwide con flag ration, thatz&yñajjñ

expanded the work of the american battle commission, we now ry have 125,000 serviceu?&;w members buried in at least 14 different nations.é o%zçu we have 95,000 names)@up the missi6 world war ii on our tablets of the missing. you'll seeum%ñ aw1)rj business. i'mp (j this business as general peshing said and welike to quote at the americanocú battlep3:rç monuments commission that time will not(l6:u dim theat glory of their deeds. answer any questions, one issue that the congressstf gave the american national monuments commission was clark cemetery. en route to vietnam in 1967, i went byx:rfy the old clark air base en route to vietnam, it isj("ng36tju closedéz the philippine government asked the american1!=ñ military toh[yñ½s

leave a number of year÷fgpjy that leftçs:y clark airfield base cemetery which had#í[2 been around almost)# 100 years,enw with about );jd 8,000juéteinternments men wome ñ childrennt ÷ dependents, #]kyk÷ll ñunatte8g and so the congrdi mission tok( monuments commission, we n have taken that mission seriously, we're in it%by with both feet. we're doing an assessment of what it will take to bring that cemetery u8oui a 1 r(t&háhp &hc% standards.6ópñgsi l$o arlington of the ..pacific, it's75m-pr(t&háhp &hc% not going to bews8ú one of our top notch:qh &cemeteries, but we will maintain it with dignity, but that's going to the take some money. so we'll be coming back to you(a6@cr in a couple of légbz÷ç years=#t for that.

pm of yourr@y information and wr nknow vase and u how did that relationship of collaboration begin? staerlt with mr.jd xtyly8u walters. zsyw.5s we obviously worked=c: ) yw very closely

battle among92y you means commission. for ÷ymnstarters both have a representative onsory+zq#zrñm (ááá t (t their input on'z that committee which ranges over a variety of issues, we have found extremely helpful overóagq the yelñ with v4u÷arm) vz established a board that meets areas of mutual interest and to share best practices, for example, mr. t%'hallernan mentioned the useb:h of gis/gps te# it's somethingjéñ that the national cemetery administration is beginning to use and we can certainly learn%q!hl](ur(qj from arlington's success in that regard. i would also submit that there are many things that nca has úy shared with ed withd wit r(t&háhp &hc%

qs equally well in their favor. with abmc we are currently working on am3d construct an sberp tiff$8h center at the punch bowl in& ñ hawaii, in fact mr.n 'h powers was @ the)3do punch bowl to check on the progress of that. so we have many collaborative4i(dg efforts with xebabmc as+x well to share in the of our nation's?(eí%q)anss cemetery grounds. x e%rñ mr. 2 qhallernan? >> mr. chairman, in direct answer to the question of how did this all begano1eey in the efforts for communication and collaboration, ia-4+ñ worked with the former secretary steve morrow for 32 years with came to arlington in 2010 during6x d difficult and challenging times, one of the first things i dide'k ip r(t&háhp &hc% was create a memorandum h[f of -- took advantage of training that

was ) vongoing based on 33 years of experience, decades worth of experience.9 1w so thaterhsi relationship is this, andky and continue to share over the last couple&cñ of years. my/3bdç relatéab ip with pf>x:1s$ñabmc, former senator cleland is a member of our advisq!ñvisw $íh"x committee, he was also my old boss when we worked at the va,fo÷ so we have known each other for many= p years, both professionally and as veterans the relationship professionally and personally was there and reached out and sign+0a>ñ a memo with committee is aware of, what we have done wit`u'technology, what we have done with>&zs standard operating procedures what we have done to train ourí g staff with citizenstivityg#ñ3 especially so the communication is+k in place, the mec place, the vehicles are there, we are working together as mr. +l$lsdá$táju$áyb-b÷g+&x:

he's assigned as part ofk proactivetly g engaged at the same time sharing theirswfrq acts ofji"3n ek experience. so across the board here at this &háhp &hc% table and going forward into the future, actually the working relationship that's been/ o documented that's in place even2 when we're gone. thank you.lx9 >> secretary ôcleland, do you have anything to add? >> mr. chairman, thank you very much. actually the cooperation between these!& thing i'm most proud@ hasn't always been that way as you well know it's unusual for a government agency to work with another governmentféz agency. and piped and everything 8=qzç lined up to where you are accountable to your congressional and oversight people./hak &háhp &hc%

and youñ @ yourh they're in the same business. we are in the same business all of us we are in the business of honoring those who have served, particularly when they get killed in[jz> action,2fa particularly when they die and looking after their families. so that's the business we're in.e3fs i have made sure thatfo ñ patricktes÷ callahanrçacb and his associate, renee gates came over[4q to the 70oc,y anniversary of the!jñ normandy invasion, we were there, all of us,3a/ñ they were with thefq1< commission, and with us, with the president of the united states,t&zjt then on that june 6 of this year, then the next day they went back for a professional tour. to look atícfcñ the cemeterythn at9) normandy, and especially the interpretive center that we$éañ have

there, that we think#|ñ is world class, arlington is now looking themselves. so there is]xhóaiñ a massivnzñ change back and forth. ourio[ people have shared information for a number of years. in terms6bf< of the va, i met with secretary mcdonald, we have"3#6j memorial, where the va and the cemetery is unique, but therev the -- i was just therel veterans day,á&a the va's been out there in the last couple of days sop!zb we're working on this tushlt to experience at thñ +k punch bowl is somethingve ;ñ that future generations can grab. so i'm proud$q@ tov? pp work with½&y these folks and they're the best in the business as far as i can tell. >> thank you for that my time's expired, but i just wantf1px to say one thing ng9@/m i think what

you all did was unique.> okay.na$8 >> mr.;x)w walters i would just urbancbnru0rñ initiativeye program and ask $q you, maybe justification of why tu don't include urban areasn thaty kix people have a difficulty getting to have a state if you30! take publicji takes you two hours and you still have to"a walk six miles. juáhr(p' make that trip. so why wouldn't those kg:ylw of urban areas be considered for this initiative.> "c>#y@mc (ñ >> the purpose of thec

initiative, at least as it is kñ)< defined now÷& is tomvhsaí provide data that shows that there are problems with time and distance barriers÷h5t those hl)÷ñw we have five very specific evaluate aqr÷] for thert placement 7ñof a column only cemetery.3hx÷ baqf%9jeuiu designedn()ñ to supplement the national cemeteries and to addressúqa÷ gaps in service that oura6g are telling us through formal surveys and other$1 other feedback. >> would it make sense to look at expanding that to also include access to a state cemetery when there is no national -b eññ >> i think certainly itn"t=9(z makes sense to begin to. who use stateo$p cemeteries similar

to the6 national i think f could then

within a proposed site, that is where we place a new national4jcñ cemetery.épáe it's ázó or whether it cross cuts states or other factors. >> it doesn't steam to be ,ad does -;vfzit? because there's mohehan 80,000óf÷ veterans in las vegas. >> yes, 1t)ty as yo,ab?ñsjsyñknow, i mean our access policies at this point with coverage -- if they have convenient access to either a national or state cemetery. convenient access if you have to ride two hours each way on mass tr!á@s6 and walk six @pees,!jccñ that's not veryzp÷ convenient. >> our access standard does in the take into account8fvx driving time and distance. it is mileage.@m(ñ my understanding is bou ! city is approximatelydwb&w 30 miles from las vegas, i'm not1 the driving1q wouldy

i think the bottom 4&>ñline, ]ñ6 is we do not consider;icj burial in]5cgó a state inferior option to being buried in a national d#&/xá >> if you had the choice mr. a walters, woul+úc ñ burrey buried in a state

you'ruylecqj going to trust the c>[6 1 o veteranst4$n association to be sure that they keep the+pñ national standard? >> lno ma'am we have a fairly rigorous national compliance review program that we just revamped about a year or so ago, where weva6go to state thatfacilities and we?3 apply>>uxána2ñ the same scorecards that we do to our national cemeteries to the statesvp applicable. obviously there'sq1x some$ñ criterion that are only applicable to but weíñflñ do review the states, we havei2st scorecards for them wepnarñ givenkx them4sfi opportunities to submit corrective action plans l2p/!n those instances#/& shortcomings and wec;c=t work with closure on problems. if ioatg may mention oãother thing about the acceptance of state cemeteries, we recently co

customer satisfaction survey with those who use statezkf. cemeteries, who bury their loved ones in state :ecemeteries, we don't have the full results, but we were able to extractbxeltáát overall results that vk98% of?n respondents !ç believe that the appearance of thosetpv cemeteries the state stemdsp cemeteries were excellent. 95 agreed that the service provided at those statetsy"ñ4)kw facilities were4glsñ96d excellent and 98% said they would recommendyxásf theyv9su cemeteries to a f >> that's"asc like asking a person in an ice cream store who's eating ice crei you/wi1@ot asking other people who have chosen not to use that facility what reasoncc what they think about it. so i just worry about state!s) cemeteries having different policies in different states. just like your homeless program, it's a great program, but it's only in national cemeteries,

it's not in state cemeteries, so i just think we need to work together on trying to fix that.f za thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you.p chairman, you were:@z an all pro on the football field and a$"d (t&háhp &hc% champion for our veterans. i really appreciatey5&#zp#p÷ it, a tremendous 0m(jxadvocate. and first of all senator thank you for your service to our v opportunity to visit the clark cemetery in the philippines and i want to also yu÷ thank the ecz'pvfw and the other service organizations who have(kij up to now, theyvu&kqa%b have done an outstanding az(pt(r', the private funding has come from our veterans over the years.é i hav( 'p uestion for mr. there's been a fewt1ft instances in

the past where individuals have highlighted4dz concerns of the committee on specificél specific issues and any constituentss come to me as welt. for instance onem0 ñm realizedwyy7 aa raise where headstones appear to havãbeen rung over by construction vehicles. the committee hasáñy#wh:ke1ñ largely found an j/j÷ncaah+to be very responsive when contacted on these issues.9d[ in the last few years. my question is how do individuals, how do ouriçñ constituents who visitd+ñ national cemeteries raise concernsúqñ to nca and what receiving those complaints? questions? >> yes, thank you for the question.c we have a variety ofa through which those who visit our cemeteries cantjzñnby voice +hz÷ concerns. beginnin/s:ez with complaint lcv that are maintain

if an4vhjñ individual has a concern encountered, whether it=bs cemetery, or theut" service@wc that was received, they can record in the complaint log theirhpq observations.l that complaint log is kept and it isb#ll reviewed through our org?y tional assessment and improvement program and all of on in a timely manner. tk$bqqp(vñ qñ[0xr&dmñ of course there are other ways to do ?vl variety of lette2 individuals expressing concerns about specific issues inq cemeteriez2>o we apply"twv#j u b-urjt aggressive+#=t resolution to those complaints as well.m!tfb:j >> do you rj to individuals? >> oh, yes, sir,

>> i think it would depends on the natureo$&7 of the complaint and

to be sure they're honoring ,[ dignity of theç ÷ñ burials. >> thank you very much. i have one more question. thek the v÷s implementation of the dignified burial actwh6 of 2012. it's my understanding that a national funeralñ. ú director's association expressed concern with one of the details of the proposed rule us. under the previous rulesg funeral homes were able to-(fly apply+nfz directly to the/mzg$? reimbursement or other associated obenefits, and in their view this alied funeralqv homes to veteran with a timely14clt and dignified funeral. and this is what i am concerned about for the familyi(c and for thefú[) ÷drans, without any concern compensated for their services. without a next of kin, underw4,pq would have to5 atw÷ the authorized ó&(representative, which would add

additional costs to%ar a process where funeral!a'(huöz fryingfryzq trying to honor our national heroes. ~= ÷ youñ; lñ additional cost to%&gi a process where funeral i directors are trying to honor our nation's fallen heroes. can youhé1 : explain why nca is not allowing funerala?cphç directly to-efño the va? were there any,mzjevqçuáá áháo this provision supporting or -- i just don't want to delay the process for the famili)ae and particularlyoao7í&lm when there's nor3]f3sw next of kin.mo pild be happy for the record3÷w provide a response. i will say that0béq the intent of the directzbñ payment to the

veteran wasf7e to do÷dk precisely what i thought you said oward the end of your comment which÷ make sure /

process and make it more inconvenient for the families, or if[b7ñ they don't have a next of kin, they can take care of it directly. so0n:53 k han who is doing a

i÷ñddibly responsive works well with our and is atent toif the veterans and theiry@3=ç families in el paso. i want to thankq uñl!l g thank you. and as you've been very ? us, toa k personally wooir able to talk on the phone dc about concerns before they become real problems and so+ i i you for that as well.ba i think is cemetery in el paso at ft. bliss is in manye=éñ ways remarkable. it's very clean, well o@hvkept,ñu a great staff and the response and i think you probably have thevq data to back it(f)'up in termsv?dxq of that you serve, has been great. disconnect between the nca and el paso and ourz0de÷-, servicer offices it's one of the water/x9mñ wise5

÷ system. it is deeply unpopular amongst those people whose opinion i care about the most, the veterans and theirkúúoiifamilies, the children:[ae÷ widowers the deden=v(1tcy sents of those that areç buried there. you have approached this.sú as an either or proposition. and your argument is when ft. bliss had that, it was%(@fwy4te9? suboptimal or you have water wise, doesn't"íwñ require a lot of management orf8 ñx6z efficient and in the opinion of some it's7m aesthetically 6m plea talking about crushed rock and dirt on%- we're no4c landscape, althoughç there is somejoc and some trees.t.é8a%5 uá_q visiting a family memb%cóxí and3yfwsbw&0x it's 110

outux& want to kneeluc and you can't because you're asked to kneel on this crushed gravel. i'mpcf/w looking for an option, some way wek past whet community.tjócnd we'reld also asking to know what the criteria are that youn;>e use to make these %=9m9ñ my understanding is only three

. factors tß-ñ.6sq1a include climate condition as well as the availability ofh"g/1r' the case of el paso, 1)4ãyou┌#gs kl@tcz the decision to zero skap/lf&k7zv that cemetery was based on ae 3 in (jk1999. indicate byct if el paso were yqç be maintained as5 a national tó )ine there was not< sufficient amount ofi so. ñzqñ thãn2v study9b recommendedtmñ zeroo(,@h skaping the entire cemetery.jt@ decision to make the investment to zero skapq$sñ the f;4iñcemetery. >> if i could interrupt you z you're ssgiving me the history. i'm asking for to2çp-rñr future. how are wehhd going tqhn÷ work @

what we have#nt"ñ today is wçvbz unacceptable? >> okay. well,2÷]j just to say? results just to put them on the record, our survey results from those whob ñ aredwh4ñ usingcjgw the cemetery suggest a high degree of accept stance, bu&#pvç in answer to your question -- >> i would refer to my analogy. i'm not sure we're askingfr2t whose family@deñ members whap cemetery, who did not have42fqf a choice in whethe2 converted from grass to@fáu rocks and who are deeply disappointed .9f,82ut do somethingú÷ about it.&:p u$at youu ñ this decision thatv unpopular and unacceptable to me( and the people i) what i'm asking for nowzez is how can we work together to do something.@h)=z perhaps we cannoték:o÷ turf the entire cemetery.% perhaps there's an imp =rent on the bliss today inv% el paso.

but because i'm out of time and because it probably involves a longer conversation, i would just like to gain8 commitment that webéckúcj can work together to do /[!9that. >>1gó absolutely.añé willing to worku wñ with you and your staff. we have done so in th] ñ1my=q past. we will continue tokn>5óñ do that with you.+w= i think a good launching point p k very well be theg taking when they're examin soil condition;gi'q and perhapsí]iz coming up withúb8áv recommendations or 0vqwm we canh;2rrconsider. so absolutely, we're more than willing to work with you and your staff. >> great. thank you. >> sure. >> thank >> thank yofúoñ withiñ that i recognize mr. ñ stivers. >> thank you for accepting unanimous con send to allow me to sit in on this hearingza-r and i appreciate your leadership. it's been an honor ton$e@ serve with you in congress. ã you'vení!v had a distinguished ø$"5i9 i happenxwlñ7&j#n8hñ

>> good luck'dm0háhe .> i really do r& appreciate th2pczzi &háhp &hc% wayt0hu've treated our veterans and the way you've realltñ worked withrs-h7u$ sides]bt to come to common ground. here. i have awocx couple questions for mr.$uk] walters and then i want to doñ5srv!ñ --dx! holland. mr. @v!trwalters,5 xçig&ñy$dd#÷kç new regulation that wo,@d deal with next of kin. frankly, the old policy#g6ajx2#÷ homeless4obç veterans and folks whose next of kin identified because they had servetugyw in a conflict much further bacc1$e)s7l in our history, headstones. so i appreciate the updated version. t"!÷gij onlyl! a fewm÷tñ questions

that i havep about it because there's someoqfi) folks "g that arelcyrm1bc historians and other$@lu÷ archivists that are interested in helping language thateks$wqb)ú they don't quite?pv undgqfn t and i j]?gd toúkyk(%up&k wi4 the first part involves where you say any ?dés individualái ñ who/!ló providesó+bát/yenf documentation of such lawful dutyñ4x basically can provide information on these z] headstocvesj r(t&háhp &hc% a lot of the interesteda71:r parties> tobbq stivers that i get in right, i would prefer:z(