fewm÷tñ questions that i havep about it because there's someoqfi) folks "g that arelcyrm1bc historians and other$@lu÷ archivists that are interested in helping language thateks$wqb)ú they don't quite?pv undgqfn t and i j]?gd toúkyk(%up&k wi4 the first part involves where you say any ?dés individualái ñ who/!ló providesó+bát/yenf documentation of such lawful dutyñ4x basically can provide information on these z] headstocvesj r(t&háhp &hc% a lot of the interesteda71:r parties> tobbq stivers that i get in right, i would prefer:z(

submit it for the record. >> i appreciate i knew that,"(1 might be the result. the second is your proposed rule creates an actual date on the - u calendar. date we entered world war i but as you nañknow, our archival l áhp'duqáño y("ir(t&háhp &hc% archives actually

right now. i'm sure that's one of them. in general, sir, what i mñ will say incó) date was to reallywu w4@ possible. if we establish th

certainly many of our veterans owe economically disadvantaged, there were more broken#dó families, so i would ask you to take a look(4ç if you can have&bdf consistency, i think it makes sense. i don't think that april 6msárth+"mé 1917 is th# worstdo3w in the world, but i think consistency, one of the rules we need tz by up here"÷u is if we can create things that are consistent, it just makes it easier for everybody. so please take aó38 look at that. theq@1ñ last thing i would as yout2bn÷ could consider community -- sort of community of historians. every state has a state historic preservation officer, and if you ã about that state governor appointedú+ástate governorkk(z allow those folks to be included in this by name and by spelling

them out i think it would bex really helpful. there's one inzlpqdsx every for federally8 i-ujtj i indian tribes separately from our 50 states and the 4 territories asl well. so, they are everywhere.8si itwj position that could and should be i thinkwa> sure. we would bemo) h2"j+ sir. >> thank you so much. the]i;çxúl 2uá years here in & i hadz you regulation and i appreciate w you're doing to implement that. you mentioned it a little bit want to thank you ó because it sets forwardg what happened a fewi where some unidentified remainst p of our servicemen)cimi andu

ended up in a landfill. happens again. i really appreciate the efforts to say thank you. >> oñ congressman,iaç my staff, you're most welcome. they exist. tx- is to serveíp5 our 4ijjrjj[p=ñ heroes andr ññ the people who have worn a uniform. it was a sensitive subject. we understoo)!@ we were out front. we worked thebk i'm happy to updatu ç theñ÷ committee that we will advertise]b:ñ that project in we anticipate a contract beingz awarded in april with 180%e66b[t project. october or november of %á/a2015, icúnyñ anticipate havingyqx a tomb ofu(c remembrance in+ >> i appreciate that. even our deserve a place of honor and i ò >> you're most fc9uwelcome, sir. >> thank you. last

senator clee lan for employing marshall. i certainly good to see john b here, but i really appreciate you and what youçffy dobaquy for our veterans. thank you for u serving our[4fa veterans that happen to be÷ buried around the globe. i happened to. places in france one of your cemeteries in france this [÷&gpyear.gwhx it was very well kept up. i r;f!eñ appreciates0g that you take your missiong&sjdbç seriously and honor our heroes regardless of wc@qr"átk happen#ex:=b ut their final resting place. >> thank you very ip&kmuch, mr. congresh>k8 >> i yield back thes i want to thank the chairman and wish him great luck on his future.talçd(i know you've got >> thank you very much. >> we'll miss you as a a >> thanks. >> i have oneaxéma]÷ more question. äf:" hopeopen it up to the other members if they have another one or five feel f 5

only because the firstñcrgfbk meeting that i hadgld with secretarykklñ múm down and he said something thatldñ really got theêb?z wheels turning. and i know strategic plan. i want to address really,,a walters, about kch6nca and strategic plan moving forward9s!>s specifically after these conflicts were coming outvfç ofh9s. -- are we prepared to have and what3hjy studies, plans d75&/have to be able to deal with this92:a moving forward.j#k >> thank ÷-vl1>çyou, mr. chairman. the nan-dé' cemetery strategicpmv planning effort.ñ"bn$ cf1 oe'ts)dtqi páh#ar as predicting the futureydy?y grave site need&

rates, we use the vetd).çñ 2011 modelp@ñq we received from another officex that modelfm% provides us with veteran level data atg4cd the countyo-ea level, using that data which is thaté>tdi data, we then look at individualc2dymz - make and assumptions 20, 30 pz years into the future. i will say that we've been successful with predictions. in most years we'rptq --úá.+ t a variancekb ofjsx aboutk ÷ 1% froma0:4r our projected intermo so any#vy x cohort in the future

would be reflected in these models.t'uá 4 .= reflectbjç]>"h>v thank you for that response t y%át(puáq i know we all sit with whatt vha and how we're unable to predict a lot of that so thank you for thatóqç:ieñew&,ñ0up! response.mk÷ rang ranking member? >> if the typhoon that recently hit the philippines had an impact on our cemeteries there and what's happened?!

sitem2declared a international heritage site and howpl3%fvfmz affects our cemeteriesvg6n÷ >> &2¥sed thank you very much. thegáá question i don't know the answer a]ertto. and i wilva6k61áujz mike?ocnq conley who might know an answer to rfcit. the first qus typhoon. typhoons hitk the philippines from time to ti- someói the treesz íx are blown down, grave sites+jf-n are impacted, so we are> like everyone else. however, we have a great crew kvg #w spot in responding and4=ñ settingj r31 things rár÷ >> tha 2> i would have to ask mike ]3úw conley, does-íl he know anything tk&b%já$u$e heritage sitx norman di?.;ñ

>> ms. titus forgive my voice.c½fkf1 o i have a cold.$j'x we are in contact with the folks over y 3there.um our overseastnñ operation offiç1 just outside paris has x6t ereviewed paperwork and we are considering whether we want to endorse that. if it is declared a world heritage site that there's prevent us from maintaining and improving upon the site as i agree with that. well, thank you. >> mr. secretary can you identify him for the record please? >>btje thatç mike conley, our chiefr >> thank you very much. mr. >> question@6fls forbz2hu holland.

husband are both eligible for understanding is that the rules do not allow them to reserve a plot next to each other and if they do want to be buried together they'll be buried one on top of another and they'll share a;zg headstone with1> one's name on one side and the x40iwother's on the other.÷i is that a rule in place because ofkh space,zp in other words, you're not allowed to reserve a plot next to your spouse like you might at another national cemetery because i think it's 2015 that we're runningb out of room? >> question, there were priorx reservati,w0u arlington under the u.s. army which ended in 1962 by law, so there are no legal reservationszrjnanymore. arlingto: bv@eunique. it is a xay space issue. there are differenthcaq typessñ of burial patterns at our nationalvtfy>a'e cemeteries as mr.#=k

former senator cleland are aware of.é that would be a driver to bury people sideáíá by)if]÷! kj side would plots. you're 100%?w0i accurate. both are eligible á takit< that as a be buried together in the same grave site, whoever goes first wow7x go in first. they would share the ih/&5q%=9 on the government headstone yes. >> is there a plan in place toueñ add additional groundsnñ"y posta 2050? >> i don't want to say no, congressman. i believe that when we[ that era of the decade, there may be some0 it's very difficult in the area thatptlevfe we're in in washington. we've taken ourigj

millennium project,t$" we've space from ft. mire. spaceqéq outr expansion process expansion, you have to look at what's going to be gained, not just a matterl- k8dq 4÷n(f maximizingk burial space it has a smallj( footprint already. and any future expansioná/dób will pro" cost. there maykç lande@cñ towardsí 6ñ where the current memorial is now. any interest we show beyond our current footprint and where we're going to go after 2050 will be ax"&ñ rather difficult and sensitive issue. we doh project what comes after 2050 for ! you for your commitment to work /é me. i really appreciate that. and while i feel very strongly

about the position that we holdkc]ññ aq related to the z your team rpñ? the way inqñvv which you take care of it.nm÷ aga really nice for what it is but i just/h heard from too many veterans and their famil 4/ú this point who desperately want something that is moref =wch t(áájt(ur'g for them as they pay tribute to their loved n together to get this.7g done. i appreciate your willingnessem b to work. >> we look forward to working with you)z:2w sir. >> with that gentlemen, on behalf of the sub committee, thank you for yourb+pxñ testimony. i wish you all of success-i 1 in 2015. you are now wait a few minutes to switch overñqykq the witness table. >> thank y:pñyou,7ib chairman.+(@w]o:8ç=vms

÷í÷uwíxf / q 4/siçfg#ñ4÷÷6 t.]oñph;a>f x

6cdd)u this time we welcomeg[b secondy berger miller who isk3÷ñ the director for ms. diane, national< adñ ef director for am/vets.@ w we appreciate your attend today. your complete and written statements will be entered into the ?a÷ñ8b hearing record. you are now recognized for five minutes$ep(vbúa for your testimono >> thank you. ÷z2u2 tragedy assistance programeaó for taps is>cv a non-profit organization that provides' comfortt+u4and care to anyone grieves the death ofb'h someon%#ãwho died08ibf+t serving in our armed forces,h÷i÷ regardless of where they died or how they'%m>o died. we appreciate the sub committee's continuing interest$(?=o in ensuring our nation's veterans7g&!i and service members have fina,3@4 resting places that

arek maintained. these my brother was killed in action arlington national cemetery and my father-in-law is alsor#4w÷ buried we hope you will .g review[mxñc submitted testimony which includes opinions on legislativeez initiatives cemeteries and arlington.rmv department of veteran'shmtpt affairs also touched the nath4];l cemeteryf7r[ adp year. unfortunately the previous under s12" u+h#oráomñ memorial affairs revealed he haddñ prohibited practices andv5p "áá preferential treatment, but new leadership is now in place ando kq opportunities we have had to meet with vab+ d6húg secretary robert mcdonald-) sloan gibson. we know h t aá @y commitment to assisting survivors and it2 is will move forward in akoz positive

andh

season last year and the3pfs!u compromise was extended into the growing. kó =9 and is still currently in place. the families are veryq fzjz7mt grateful for thissbocompromise. they have9cñ worked to educate each other about the rules and thñ

while the membersú7qéq c0-jqtee all have kplem÷ service credentials and the chairqa testified on the previousx jfpanel we believe their deliberations would benefit from the insight of a survivor'scy perspectiver÷#[dw and we thank you for the opportunity to submit our testimony a.x#fa wez4hkñ cx át any questions. >> thank you. with hbik!2ç$that, idgh=z recognize6tuñ/: ÷ >> on behalf of you for the opportunityk2vnp tovi assistj@i÷ you in the important job of cemeteries. previously my3$- testimonylhá jut c this comm limited to a repetition of facts andpastatistics. however, today's3uj )sjáñ will be much more heartfelt and personal because i love history

am 8r($ trained historic preservationist, love my country and grew up documentingal vfh,z cemeteries in the>o new england area today's topicrj6mñ is important to me bothsg' personally and e iñ everybody in this rooms2zzq knows and appr"c p%uj national cemetery administration to honor theú!dy memory of ci america's military men and women. i would like to setçn)ñk theot-rw stagel "ñ hc bka y tog-wíd[ conveyp@)$u$e importance of our national cemeteries, not only to our nation's veterans,83pxeñ to allo americanuwi>d citizens. historically, ñs'ñ cemeteriesf s especially military m were much more sites of burial with regimented internal layouts=%hñlp+s conducive to both the expression2áb÷1

grief and accepted societal jcf9r funiary rituals. fu areç%ñ aware of the social and political aspects2up:ñof8b cemeteries>#÷z7÷)ñ including promotingñfaczdopd and preserving the;bqb%9 y% 1%qeandí statsß÷?ñ boundaries. the omqb%icommemoration of rem% eventsd2x qg>]óy persons. serving asfc#fk places of beauty and tranquility where friends and family can gather.=mfñ u" u5=' expressions of national identity in the case5hjt military cemeteries. and asñ$x=ñ sites of pilgrimage and ké permanence. i'm"féeñ hopeful th

greater appreciationk>ñ>=bxs of historic national value of the many unique@ aajk and irreplaceablexfh1 eñe nca system. the monuments, architecture, landscape andç related memore kbralbíkst mormoriadhu](xuádw each nca cemetery are richly"i[ñ steeped in history%pmh and represent the very foundations of these united states.6i p!solute bestg q to develop and maintain these truly american shrines? after having spenti$ several weeks+ this summer visiting nationalhajfg cemeteries, there were seven that i wasduhub able tor getg5 to iky four different hissens, my ml impresqh its employees isiñh higher than ever.c6 having for in-depth visits where i was

able to observeñbm very facet of moved÷=vz and z care and professionalism atjmv everyeg level of the organization. none of the h cemeteries i visited -mh> át+q" anyj

equally acknowledge that cs continually rig strives to meet its most important obligation, providing dignified restingbweñ places for our nation's veterans and their eligible family members. this concludes mys4 ÷ testimony. and i'll be happy to& 2"ttuqáurjj p r(t&háhp &hc% >> thank you very:ñf much. we'll begin2= round /< questions.06>u resulting in accesslfñ÷ constraints during major holidays and time when many families choose to visit their fallen lovedô ones.ihñ how successful has taps#6váñac÷ outreach beenna several areas where taps has volunteered to assist in spreading word and do you think -- how do you think w while alsozw mn51wt>

>> well, sir, i think for us it's abouthzf0k reaching out to ourrmfgwvoccm families and distributing information. we've made improves in our survivor data basedezq so we bettx!si- orpy bt1wí familieslnf around burial location of theirab one. one of the challenges is that many of the families whód!i> bury their loved ones at arlington do not live in the washington area, so unlike people who reside here they're not familiar with the security precautions thatiéjtr(t&háhp &hc% occur when the president or the vice president travel to an event and so sometimer families especially when f$ coming in from out of town÷ get caughto on the bridgeh< very ser/ eìáhp &hc% areyr /ot familiark!2o with the security lockdown#6b/n s+procedures. and so our role has beenw$n to,0&óñ compile the information and district it by e-mail to families. i would1$' improvements that we're trying at that and we've also met with the cemeteryqr>÷ administration over ther!l summer to actually make some additional improvements because

of some concerns over memorialr day. >> and veryn20g similar to information -- i wanted to thank taps for participating inbxj-v discussions with gold star families in section 60 in q particular. you said in you2 it's an agreementq:÷s and it'sí4íñ%hñ notj formal. do you have any suggestions on how to move forward and kind easeu it's been about keeping lines ofq52çsn2zo÷j;g communication bú(9xopen. you know thev ago we had>:z a group of very( families and for ourt families to really talk with the administration, to seec:i them asg% o@2át for the administration to meet them as people and to look them in tä0÷ti(u+ z and say we want to work with you onp>á÷ this that vbñwnt a long way. and so i think it became about how to[yx

and then hoa . could work recognizing that the cemetery has to be at a certa)=j standard as a national shrine but also recognizing that grieving is different ,rvqçtoday. and for some people leaving an=uyox object or a photograph is and so how could we workgj]ñ out something thatí2

visited --rc4wñ and they were not just brief run6oqh in and 8=hcñout. i usually spent am days or more at each site.p!?x i just did not -- i mean, i wasn'tibw going 2,bw through their records. this was more instance, at jefferson baricsqu9ñ i trainingbcñ center. i scheduling office, so i could seew theg(é process. cemetery itself, but every sitek ñ÷w)e0q thiz ,bjo i wentd to i wasgi:p truly -- i was j9(]surprised8éñ iz < think by

the care of the chain of custody, if you will. i had no was like until i went1s,r jeff9sdn baricsxwhere i started. and point to ensure that it was the right veteran.z n"÷ri they were going to be < interred was the right site. i>djm mean, there is -- they use maps. they draw -- this stone is here.%[jwvi &háhp &hc% thisl'k k+( dqv :pu just thel4[=hdetail so that i@i= areé one of the things that really struck me.k,4 that and as i was6':v riding around>z withx.& different employees during my visits i would see --2rñ they would1 vehicle if they saw somebody

walking around who lookedubmi like they2." a piece of6' trash>d in the cex& just got out and took care of it. it was just really very reassuring to see0 ñ that level of care at every stepyns$u$e way. >> thank you. good to hear. with that, i'll yieldur to the#c ranking member ms. ti_!@tr(t&háhp4rdy% >> thank you. thank you both for all the good work you do with families during this most difficult44&@ñ ztime. i would ask ms. neiburger miller, if you have this same e% ÷% dealing with people and talking to8"÷ families that we heard reported in the surveys that z+e the nca does, they say3kñ their surveys show that 95% of thebe people arey got the best marks of any is that3, xtwhat you hear on the ground fromyr:kx families? >> we÷n hearbqiw from families that

they are often veryt1'.t satisfied with the burialf@&pñ process.esyéa & unfortunately we do 2l%i with people whohb many of these people are struggling with short-term memory loss issues or some otherñ ñxuo issues#ldv going on.uem they're often inx1ñgreat state these are peoplepagñ who died young, who were not expected to die,ñ (t&háhp &hc% whoiíú died in very1h6n+iolent ways. a great=w& deal of shock. the burial is not a wait typically for an actiíl2 duty service that's extremely long, so the family/bye is sometimes even needs the photographs or other things from the service to really6f recall)m÷ it very ell. and that's unfortunate, but they always will say that they feel their loved one was honored. and +7pi8"3húi÷ií that they feel2ov0 that

loved ibvcone's service ukm-ñcountry. >> do you ever talk touif(÷ families who feel like they don't live close now have a national cemt!÷y to be able toocfak access it to /cbç[sfrtresort so some other more#deu private funeral? >> well,ç there are families who have to make very difficult decisions. also because this wasm#

>> thank you.;%npr(t&háhp &hc% whenx@ú you visited those se2qç cqf8jt&háhp &hc% cemeteries, didç#+m you visit any state cemeteries or justspu] national? >> i have not yet opportunity to visit a state cemetery no ma'am. >> do you think some of your veterans would like to see@ cemeteries in the west where they couet48 buried in a national cemetery not justß4ñ statejp./ co- my know/]%-t -- not personal you will i

you know, i don't señn. why, as long as the state beingjñ maintained totthe shrine5jmj standard that that should be an issue. however, i2écó6a didr$ixl ask -- t about a problem in alaska having to do with access there a uo nationalgyelqqyiny7j cf1 o and the otheraó4uf56ñ apparently is on an active theajb issue thatsjvuó=>ñ brought upbits wass on not everybody has access to a boat, but that if there's any sort of security issues going on on the base then the base is closed a% you các

it's on my list. i'm going to0j,< continue visiting ódl cemeteries. >> thank you. i just worry about:'!i policynpqw varying from state to state,p]fi even with the checklist. for example, the saq"q sex couple might be able to getç@ buried together injfi. a state that recognizes it but not in a state that doesnyéa if it'sáú cemetery not a national cemetery. soj3añfi1nf i think while state cemeteries i think the one in nevada and boulder city is great,áj1y i think there are still differences that we need to address. i appreciate it. thank you,óld!! >> mr. o'rourke. ms.c=÷7skykeneuburgeru

go to cemeteries including the one at ft. blissim!k innañq el paso texas. i want to note for the record that mr.$bxañx ñ are here as well i really appreciate. the fact that you're listening as well to gain insight. i really appreciated your ú/ks in your çg your writdwtgdñ4 national cemetery atu!: ft. bliss. you describebb9 it as serene and beautiful and very well maintained and a little bit of a surprise because you hadár(um&x lh"ñ heard< in el paso about the cemetery. i really can'tt3h2v argue with yourni4r conclusions. i think it is a vert very beautiful again, so cleaá÷ñq÷v well maintained and for the resources that they have, if you're going to have thatloñ crushed rock and some small aj

maintained. i think the disconnectcp(ñx might0#n come-4n& when we talk to the families the.%rlr survivors, whoñsóúz can also appreciate everything that you describe@m bu% then thatñ7 act of actually kneeling at the grave site or being close to the headstone is ae÷ lesser this is, you know9ññ their experience as they related toré because of that÷:zlñ environment andzém not having that grass and that vast 5u majority ofp(q) cemeteries in el paso and almos,dphç every other single national cemetery. but you also said something that i thought was so importantzzif in your testimony or wrotewvx testimony which was that when/vi,t you visitedú÷s with f visiting]ji!át cemetery you found that they were not as u}p with thea@ aesthetics as they were with the process and they felt like they had been diwa t(uq" from the processía used to choose the?e

water wise. great exchange withfçg6 mr.wffk walters in the previous panel where we agreed that we would try to work together to find a wap to make an improvement, maybe it's not turf and maybe it's not staying with the status quo maybe it's something better for all #0 talk about aso& process thatb"qd>$ might recommend from your üing with survi6éxf' working with veterans, working with ÷ú4zvsos in our communityyyfby and with the+sv ìáhp &hc% sorry to> of zero skapinglcf'm so i'm not sure low-maintenanceh

only avenue available. i have seen ú of ft. blissd5jz when it was&f and)!r' thee#!9z picture i can see.7eorñcl+ñ lot of brown and bare patches -- >> doesn't looklqgo >> so i;"pz can't imagine that that would be anyxá!gg beu >> right. >> and i don't know if i said this in my written testimony or not, but2$ t -- and this was my firstr,t experience being in a5wm$o 99÷ desert, but when you stand$p the ] environment, all perfectly suited i did askv y iclt ent0,$"÷ to a vfwl? to the cemetery tohx÷ñ: veterans and see what th thought about["qa ñ it. and you mentioned that0p,a ñ couple07+z of

things. i asked them0c) ifá=hí to walk on. somebody was saying that, you know an elderly person perhaps disability, you know, do they have difficulty either with a walking on74( possibility came up. iyuwdidn't try eitherr@or t whenq3wtñwuh ÷1ñ i was tyctr(t&háhp &hc% it was 120%:fuz i didn't tryú jñ6gb 9kneeling. but there were people visiting theé individualsr9@uñ had brought like(ws almost like a small prayer rug,3vmw;8y if you will, somethingv>u÷(o put on the ground to kneel on which i thought was, you know,d9] ayoi.ñ pretty good option. uq one[t mention is i

national military cemetery in israel and0 theywany grass in that cemetery -- >> nv=dynow, what is on -- i saw your éwr(uu)e=-qq from the cemetery in israel. and it looksñdirvát there isdl on thej!cpñ actual grave butxe;ñ itvó looks like it's surrounded by stonesaxñ and there's some material in between the stones over the is that grass or some other covering?sir >> the ground is mainlyéhy@á flagstone type'óy material !q and then each individual grave is!k built uhñqbk there's a wall, ac@f5q surround, if and on t' of h>úh>x8úmthat, th s is grass -- eó0t, soil butgx&u it's not grass. c y gotch ya. >> 7ñ there are plants there. and there werew and i don't know -- because of that variety, iq ñ members maybe tried to5]f0s personalize txajs loved one'stzas site but it wasn't grass.

and any p flagstones wasbuf bare dirt. >> well, i appreciate you bá(t[ng that tmoy-á jbvlattention. i have the pictures here in front of me aní÷ providesisd yet another option. in other words, it's[t not a choice of a false choice>÷e% between bad turf and grass, which is what ft. bliss had, and the /qw rock but as[5f;( z you saw inhçd the desert, it's full of life and there are forms of grassl-b&v andmz÷ plant life that thrive therex5z andbujuá$ut can reach and looking at what others haveod done including in israel gives usr optiof thank you for doing the work and providing us some other perspective. /# appreciate it. testimony. >> my pleasure. >> thank you.16"rñ anything tzfurther? i would like to thank yo your testimony and for the works thaéhy# taps]$v honor our veterans and care for thei2é ami now excused. i want to thank everyone forñ)5y being here today. the status reports from our

cemetery2'3 and memorial representativesqaa!ñ and the input-:"8 from the vso community was well presented and this sub1stu committee-xd appreciates the work that went into the preparation for today'sjf q hearing.áhu will continue túsñ engage in these issues in the&yp next congress( s j the fina,ci'x resting place for our

join us tuesday on washington journal'i2z!for a conversation with emily stephenson about der riftiveswi trading and thebçi/p '%÷1.1 trillion federal spending bill. and brad# woodhouse about ÷hmm bipartisanship. all live tuesday starting att;÷ñh 7:00 a.m. eastern( on our companion network, this week on q and a, author and@ on what she perceives on the warrn

on women ñ rhetoric. >>j]!nñ what is your problem as say of ted kennedy? >> well, itc@lr rom'= each year starting december 22nd

at 7:00 p.m. easternq7a with live coverage of the u.s. house on c-span and the senate on.#sc÷ t"omufxwc-span2, here on c-span3, we complimentfrxw/3u that coverage. home to american history tv programs that tell our nation's 9+byrs9j story, including six unique series. thesóz anng9autp)y visitingu/#xñ battlefields and key events. >> american art facts, touring 84f(museums anéc#b6a;s historic sites. history book shelf÷3usñ the best known american history writers. the é'midpresidency.vd2c cf1 o looking a the policies and legaciesllx of om& nation's commanders in chief.). lectures and history with top college÷@ professors. and our new # series, real america, featuring archival government and educationalnyy films@ from the 1930s through the4ap '70s. c-span3 funded by your local

watch us in hd like us on facebook and followjízg twitter. earli5w(=%is month the assembly of state/hvçíu:xb legislatures held a57 e'eeting to establish/sh zç bylawsñt@ a future state-led f constitutional amendment convention article v allows states toraizç propose amendments if representatives from meetñi)oñé&ñ and zipkñagree. this is themc threeni- organizational meetings with previousibzçñ sessions being held in virginia and at the indiana state house in indianapolis. >> thank you, matt. support. it's a great civic exercise for us to consider the/wtools left to they understoodw5í)u we were chalúakiqáhr' the 3jzj)e that the existing document wasn't going to be prepared to deal with, so theyu)c put"

i"-)fi iny believe and i believe that many of you also agree%"$ that that time has come. but here isútk the reality.fap÷ç republicans cannot do this alone. democrats5!qt cannot do this alone. it doesn't)úfr÷ matterk3v7 what you problem is. finance reform. others it's redistricting,÷k= limits, balance budget it doesn't really matter because number of 38xlk:x states tor!yñ ratify unless we have thoughtful and moderateke5 ñbóñjw÷>proposals. wevm have a responsibility to oury constituents to1?sm our states and to t that we can. asl joint republican and leadership process. our country65! needs us to get this right. i'm a progressivev4 zv democratic state senator from kansas city, missouri. i will bring thosew values9b9 to

this role. representative +f;cappengaq5$ú÷ is a conservative republican from wisconsin and i suspect he will bring those values to his role. together, we will work to find common groundjks çiw& help bring people together and our problems are bigger than the partisanship td u"%p gridlocked washington, d.c. in article v convention offers:lsñ us the best opportunity to propose solutions that congress offer. we will need all of yourm÷ support, your industry to continue to grow the diversity of this nation.zoi we have to get to6a)iñ 34xb4t states tos call the f$ibkzconvention and; we neeïaìáhp &hc% 38 states to ratify. and if anybody in this rooml thinks that'sx9&[9á task,"hg(rq door isybnu over t states to aruátj thati13 come out of whatever work product that we're able to

produce, and this is of course down the road,x%&8x is going$cuvz have to be2 d÷ based onhd+n ,&t]bipartisan and mutual benefit for the citizens that we represent. i like to say that i run blue but i govern purple. that's not i representp,htp in thec9v2÷ missouri senate that doesn't have my ear time in my endeavor. that goes to.÷ every member in this room here. yes, i'm a democrat, but i'm also an american and i believe that the b&)sqsjny arecsh8r great enough to set down our party labels and to pick up our work boots and to get to work.[ so withp representative raymond dean from minnesota as the vice copresident if for some unreason i'm )ikp of the office for then÷ i was elected tovg#ñ.rrsjt o step into that position and hopefully he'll be prepared to take over the position when ever

thew20term is up. representative cappengas will,0p" appoint senator david long from"/h÷ indiana as the republican vice president for the) thank you all for being here. thank you fora dç believing that this is as[ácy viablez2 to help solve some of the problems that we face.w] p thank you. [ applause ]k. that's agcy wonderful gcstatement. did you check with ray before you1pjñ appointed him, by the way?g:j..?-b no. good. at this time then we a'2 to ask representative cappenga to come up and he's going to talk about thexhvl fgx of thejc i assembly state legislatures why he, as theehv'jâdothis is his049 brain child and why he came up with this idea and what wek-ñ all doing dtco] representative? >> thank x ÷

huffman. and imsf$e3mx will a[ correctly, good afternoon. >> good >> all right.q]&rv raymond, it was afternoon.÷p& >> sorry. >> it's morningzí1câvñ where i'm 7xfrom. >> well, thank you, ,jeverybody. obviously we are very happy toña seek/fúayou back again for thoseo&xmhw" have been here before, which ç again, we sek)dqñ a lot of familiar we also are excited to have new members here. so, one of the things thatâna wemof+t wanted to do isfy1gb walk through again,o3p iq0póúhayey, what is u before look4k2w on the back of your tag. j7]beráqq- we know what your seat number.ñp÷ we've installed electric %5q and he'll push the2 i button with your seatqty number,n("ñ so that way we keep people fromnb"íy falling aslu!d÷

executive committee, thank you for we had%@m9=9 calls, lot of sideuz< six months for actually:x meetings to go forward toáxñl in trying to2tujp39w understand where this organization is evolving long term. and,r#so i want to thankp my staff+@fdñ actuallyh all the time you putm)q inqibeç this thing was set to 6c÷go. so we haveí committee. w up. and5 ez that>94añ reallyr helps because get straight talk on executive committee, and that's good because that way if onepz# side or theçñ(ñ other startsx down a road that doesn't make oiu

naval heritage center ia ñ cannot tell you how great these guys have been in setting upwi÷ the venue. they have been amazing to work with. so i wanted3p]wmpz÷ to make sul'$jy i thanked them. they just -- everything we needed, they setd/d'v ov÷ up for us. i guess we could thankjz÷vq c-span fl.j being here. they are going todfaxf]f be taping this, so that'sí0jh therd-ku lights. it's not that we want to be seen.g better. so thank you ú(ac-span, for being here and also finallytn to theiiy participants. thank yougmyk h v÷coming. and taking time.8@loów]d9z @r(t&háhp &hc% i know peoplerm flew out justs .ych= other people had stuff before or after this. i know this takes time away from the pxp6qfamily. i talked to somebody w@y they had been gone from th family since monday and won't be back until wedneró or thursday. so, it'sz the5tqr8e ñh] /ñ kids and the7pfvi(uçwife,6'p(

if you have púñone so thank you for the commitment there. what i want to do is -- the purpose of the assembly state legislate/ s, i'll talk about what we're doing and also go back through, hey, how did this come up? this? so representative talked abouténa article v. i don't want to)ú ñ$ reiterate. thengayt states have ajs3gluq!=i%qez%)táh from missouri said last time in axxa0u meeting, the 6wf we have the juris$b3txez1asd to amend the constitution and that will take two thirds of thei states to passooi q8x resolutions. why the twok3w methods? understand, too. history centralization of power and it doesn't matter if -- what: civilization, this is a trendvlv s,6eeá which always ends up leading toop

abuse. and at george41y k qrxmason in his -- if you look at the notes of the constitution, one of his$)uuutj isx xt improper÷!ri r÷ requiree]átheebms consent of the national legislatureríbr powt ú and refuse their consent on that very account. so these guys; really had a good grasp of history.1$vm bless you. and so they put v this mechanism in placeñ$"6ñ specifically for us. so why have thee=)ñ states not#á÷c%j been 9eìáhp &hc% succe#]m? -h=ñ this came up -- i waù÷ñ theptbìáhp &hc% chair of cons4rhg4ion and ethics in the state of wisconsin and we kept having people come upó5íç and ask the question about article v qq t so÷rb#y(:zu we had to really devil int j@it. it's interesting becauseá

state. so we need to understand what the root cause of the&a is. accounting0 i used tox21?ñ gojiw2o in:"!ñ:0!nñ and look for mo9wcuá recommendationsrmh we would look at processes andg y procedures and risks and controls. so it was fun$ this, but we recognized that it never gotá]rp to the m huwhat? or theg jr( it always stopped z7ñ the how. every single time. and i can tell you after having2imu:ñr conversations with bothoeuñzl(dgi republican and democrat colleagues across the s > it's the samej$@y÷ story. every single time we have the discussion, it always comes back able to say whatsj g4ñ the otherak:÷ñ thing' find haveci n(lñ gotten away=! together andq d.' i think forgetting that we

actually play a part5q ]g government. we hold power, bx>sñ it seemsbvj@@)5ss like we've kind of pulled ourselveszrpmñ back into our)óvffblqq states, so we needñ]zft something to get us back out.

national government right+"÷dnow. so they said,d@&ó 6 states andy:&,d get something '! together. so a year later in annapolis they got together, 1786.'óv they only had five states show up. they said,! authority hered7,lbecause weeb&;ñ don't even have a majority. let's do it again. so they called a yfñ later theywr÷ #f(mcalled 1787 and wep@b"v all know what happened in 1787, amazing things happened, 12 statestpbañ = showed up,u@b+ r(t&hjújhc% 13 ended uprwp ratifying2ysn" product of thatá meeting. so we looked at it.m3ob and we 2fñesaid this is a greatvz mechanism to get together estates, to talk about issues of commonwc concerns. let's call fortunate enough -- raise your hand if you were at mt.p= p&1 yea3h"r and i always have found memories of mt.h x vernon. what an amazing time%h)t place that we were able to kick this off with.

meeting and then knowing that we've got some legislative conferences in d.c. wem1;t thought it woul z appropriate from a cost standpoint it w(."# z good to be able to have another meeting +htjut in d.c. today and tomorrow, there's really two main hbegoals. we need to adopt our byl!modq?qms so that we can become an: kñ official organization. we'll go through that procesìáhp &hc% today. we'll walk through thebn3gñ bylaws. we'll open it up for debate and discussion. representative huffman will eny that. andhv;x then the second goal is really to further define the edákx rules. so we'll get into discussion about what the comçp: a úppx7cf1 o up and the two> c committe will step up fb-z here and theyu walk through, hey, here is what the committee has done. here is the item that was assigned. product2zx that we've had and then!#7 ñ we either can discuss&úa%=rñ saying

this is good or we can push itc1t]x back to[y/t the committee for further discussion$?txñp,nñ0$l÷ andf%kl actually there's a third a5ñgoal,1 x tooy/#hhat really is to continue that is really really important. and i(÷z!w think what wei is all next meeting and make surea7w4 that we are reaching out and we need to g$])t i"@e think we have 30 or 31 -?7i÷di states that )[s(r4nuiin havefhpívmz:zg officially sent someone from theirú leadership, so an official delegate, which is amazing. we are verytkzuq happy with that.iq we need to grow that. obviously our goal is to?vi< states to be officially here so we can come up with a solid work product that is aññgá÷÷ solid'.gc=h(roposal that citizens=í&p]nk areúe0[ comfortable with and obviously that state legislatures across the nation on both sides of the aisle are comfortable with. and we're confident we can p&sju)áuuz do 1 we just ask for your engagement there as we4?z movebc k from this

meeting forward. i put just a couple ofqzz points on why it's important, what doing)0 continuer cf1 o if you look atrbfo of the work9h r(t&háhp &hc% that is going on tg6jñ we -- or when we get to as the states for proposing amendments, lookaf÷ am%)háhat goes into it all of the discussion. i mean we were+dfqeái1ñs sitting herea ] earlier asa executive of things=t2 and we spun off into one issue and we spent 20 minutes just debating8#q'c$fv on issue around the convention and each eu3 other, whoa, we have to pull thisçykyk we're -- we've got too!flç get them agenda finalized and ;c"sfpó"%verything, but there is so much discussion and so many lkmlqoñgd fine poi oáo cf1 o that we keep running into thaty@ of.eu z define and!f debate. so what we're doing here is we are takingév÷ ab & significanta#$load

off of hq we are ableqçq to put añ andibt÷bk a model together that they can look÷dá put together by stateq'q involved. we are pure and we will notxloñ allow anybody else into this organization. it is,-1yvc[;(ó-h)ñ currentlyg legislatures and that is a critical piece that wejd+ñ saw too inwm@y! soon asa"avuáu get an organizationb8ñ that is a non-partisan,vfí÷ñ it!fb f doesn't (7 whenñ currently servingeg&o state legislatures engage inv$aañ6 qgm%w process, p#a becuqññ partisan for somebody, so we arep 9 continue to remain a pure currently serving statetr legislature body. the second thing that's important fostering>ibg r( relationships. we talked about 7tthat. obviously(63lñ the third@ysn removes the unknown of the process. this whole>[qoñ thing3 ñbe" that is we want to make sure we undersljí1@ howéw

and we will have a very firm understanding of that when we we will have a product at>f#yy thez that it's trustworthy and know "yw that it's well intentionedp know that it is balancedn that it can( and tható;'u)s& allow us then to say,$cú you known(í,), we5 the how, which we've all been looking for for a longydtime. and now we can focus on the issues at % hand. let's startmp#ç talking about the the why. we all kno'! ptlñwhy. that's what drives us. now we g.oir÷ to the what. so, !zy% are myve6 comments. thank youa]gç: y?:túñ again> i don't know if younj7ñ notice the pictures. i kind of laughed. i was going for a run this4&s weekend and>t0/z ran by the capital dome. how many saw that it's under construction. yeah. i just thought it was kind of ironic because=

that's in repair right now. my phone. i quick@ stopped and then kept running and that's one of the shots up here. so thank you for coming to fix washington and we look frw> z >>i%n(hank you, mr. copresident. we appreciate that. we'll move to8r é(rq point agendaóim gijyñ for the discussion of the proposedaxo6ga-g bylaws. i think we're going to put thoseaw up on the screen at some point, were mailed to you beforehand or you got nowcj4ñ -- yes, sir. okay. so i think it's helpful to have those up there as we talk about it. now, let me tell you a/rw things that these are not. this has1 +r'g% úó to do with the these.bc asking for you to take pw ç back to your statek=&3hqrxj1rn ÷u

what we are currently is for profit8um j have to have:q3kp minimally+aáx some9 bylaws that0 ñ talk aboutí÷ decisionhpfm making. this is a very barev document. in my law practice ija8%ujt((sv:3ñg ñ started upwards of three ors sepail don't get paid-lfuz doing not for profit work buti ÷ pr 20 or 25 not forthç profitíã((lpcorporations in the statec ohio. and when you -- of course those>h?ñ"-bh÷ corporations have to havex3qay bylaws. lengthy documents because8 you have to get into things. this, however, is rather bare bones. one of the reasons is we have to get a mñ group of veryd! divergent folks fromq"j all over the country to approveçge these, so what w sñ simply doing in these is identifying who we are what our

purpose is who are the members who are goingjh to be able to weigh in on theseuxl%( decisions and then anjm structure that we talk about in the d"qgñend.4&$ds(t&háhp &hc% afterib that, we'll have -- as i get into of the other committees would be formed andzf,tñ 1t approved. what i'm going to do right now about this document.t+f+ñ you can follow along with me. i'llhy try not to be too repetitive repetitive. then i'm going to sit down and set&26ñ needer hauser is goingdt(8ìáhp &hc% to come and we'll have a55fwú:-x discussion about this. not that any of you might but don't worry abouthjihurting my )lcoings. i'm a lawyer.s that's what we'req so feel free toírrcriticize, amend, it is that you think is appropriate because)q end&a: what we're going to ask tomorrow a set( &jv:vfb% bylaws that we have

approved. so that can begin making decisions in a morm]& formal>láv@rway. l ]plaztn article ia3zr organko7on and purpose, weu statev. fjdvprnñ legislatures inc. we initially;z9ñ vernonipg rçñ ñ a whole bunch of]xk groupsao)b decided they could make money off of 9!ñ that. we got wiser and came up withñgzs÷v>xñ a better more i think it's verykvi whoro&b6y2÷ we are. any organization that's&j9u formed?uy corporate or otherwise of course has a purpose. the purpose:ç of the assembly rules and procedures for and p to conduct convention of the states f5ú pursuant to article v of the constitg@n of th% states of the america and to

consider an act upon all otherñp matters of relevance for suchp convo:hfjjy no one is that the original discu representative were to draft and define rules and those rules of course,y do they're recommendations to we can't decide forbjq9÷ anybody because we all showed up on ú> and did it or decide for 50 states here]n&cy is what you have to do or decide for the convention. to that z ñjextent, ñ tank, it's anúñ academic organization i think as jason described it. it's !qéñe]cbk2 group(q3ok coming study th#=yf ultimately make recommendations to our 50 statef[n legislatures. theç about actually conducting af(f convention is

anything. itq, be that when we gethç a convention, all&hgyçe th)ú$ç speakers and president of the senate!a(say, thanks for your work, here is how we're going to do that. if that's the way it is that's fine. has to have the keys to convention u2bfo. somebody has to buy the gavel and hire staff and do all xq wnprthink this would be a good)o cf1 o vessel for all of thatj )r'd ofxg6 work ify61es ultimately our organization, the assembly of state legislaturing isn't that that's fine. we think5

financep indianapolis. it's the appt, v$ateg%v7 we are going to be having income which atmññ has only been the÷ from the individual legislatures and i believe that'”3ythe only kind of contributionam&3 ñ we're9(6ó going to have. going to apply(trz for 501 c 6wt status if that'st2;ñ needed, itj go and do that. now, articleñkm ii deals with membership. very2kz. simply there are 50 members ofj9$is orgy it's the 50( mñ state&.ñu2x legislatures26s t(1sz#are tv t entities asabmvobmp describedt!z1ñ in article v itself. the number of those aren't going to change unless we have a 51iri÷st back out but i don't thinc"hñf that will lvi&÷x

sectionzp're@á. indicateskfmñj that each state is represented by a delegation. now, onejfik of the things or one of at mt.h>"÷ vernon andl)c also in indianapolis whichaxfá_q continuing today on behalf of theé> zx#myáut legislature? is it people --9ii÷ is it only the ]#t speakerslsqu and the presi what about the minorityj and what we defined is there is going to be a delegation from?tlñ each state. and each --ó'ñ and obviously we're not going to#bj have tvh legislatures at eachfh meeting butsvtm there will be a delegation that comes and speaks for each state and votes for each@÷ sectione section iii talks about each state will have a maximum three members..p i'm going to talk about how we got to that@!ç number as we=afío gon1h

through. section 4 is -- talkstx about who is -- who are appointed.k,$ the president of the senate3÷fc and the speaker of the house will each or the majority leaders as we describe in here, thepqé5 majority leaders in each house4a8x each appoint one person. the mi.íú@ ñ/ds leadersg appoint a third person. and that is the that's how people. now, there's --(uf7÷ and hopefully we'll havg÷ some debate of peop.gcug wonderinga @ why is that? sxfore's a whole number of scenarios.é@d$n indianapolis we had one person show up from colorado is actually we had two, neither of them zqófbqz r 2[ áujáuz comeeí"úi to that5w"vo or i shouldn't say wouldn't, they failed to.:4aq participate. and if"- adds thatyistate's delegation they can if thez to, then the majority may be

losing that opportunity tod participate.gfó12i so, what this plan doeseg"?s isa the majoritd+ asb< majority, to continue to control course gives theá opportunity to participate. and these are -- and there's8bqg0 r(t&háhp &hc% course going to be some complicated scenarios because we may have h0÷ situations or we do have situations where there's one house that's z%9e @r(t&háhp &hc% one house thasó"zb3democrat.n% ñ obviously those twoa'ts÷ leadersnu can appoint someone. but who(4÷ picks the third if a republican and democrat minority leader can't choose that third? and the÷-+ is that's going to be up to then if they're only going to send two peop theyrdy5 pick a third, that's going tov up2xé 1x them. and úéz#qfrankly, that's theçx)v only what i view as sort of the --g 'm i'll )éyw all thejmh;: this and th] twe'll start it up.

that's okay.b% éó all right. and ofapd!rse section)p:s v as the nebraska provision. av there's equal representation in other words, a delegation can be example, thereçñ minority party doesn't fails to be1ñ but in no event will a delegation all be members of one party./=u and ifx you have a state, for example,-)zç]a9$ñ that is republican on -- inlf[óx both (ílinstances in both thçz+ñ houseo2# and the senate and% ñ for whatever reasonaa that minority leader is the democratdxa4ñ minority leaders don't>ñ i4ñ choose tobmism1f6% appoint@&pyv someone, they can't say, well the thirdv0 guy will be a?8ñ republican too. we all have our different

convention can be. getting to 34 stateslbvñ for a convention and getting to 38 ns@ going to take both} )qj it. whatever it is that you @ b8 pb"cf1 o is important to you. so, we havesç&ñ to x- k5- organization.nc1m=1ñ as i just mentioned in-1$qgñw$ @r(t&háhp &hc% section viie are -- if there are less than three delegates -- if there's only one from that state, however appointed, that person or persons if3 4x z there'sv that is your delegation. and wha!qzn we're#a$÷ $fsçdjt to 1 participate1mt andjéd;u oth gh are participating, we want to say the folks who are participating and appointing folks, we're going to recognize those as theu:ftksvsç state delegation3r"ip r(t&háhp &hc% and i understand in some 0 &háhp &hc% instances@ud#amay be that

majority leaders in both houses don't appoint and only a minority member ispeá7f but we want to encourage folks that if you don'tzáqkñ like howqbñ your[6qgu state voted and you're aq[msi &háhp &$b"k"tsp%ority leader and, hey, i didn't appoint that person any way, then you should appoint peopleú!= come andçñ?ñqhax9 provision because we have a va#@3ijt scenarios in this organization. we didepm in indianapolis. we hadtabí folks who heard about it and8-÷ showed up. we had folks who were appointed qdm[nf1 o by a minority leader but nobody in the majority. we had folks who asked the(>ns/p speakers office if it was okay q÷

getting paid@ here. and if we have people who care about this issue becau we want to -- we want t they can vñ$meaningfully participate as much as possible, even if therj appointingéh(jf uthority in your state and we think that --ç. i'll talk about who we is in a second, we think that it'sáñ important for you)x to participate3"@4eithat.> = delegation, we're going to allow that. now, that is going to be a joint decision between theñ copresidents anda m the reasonmoint we"á÷ z do that is there may be a number of stat@eo4d÷ aren'tb80=y appointing anybody and aren't sending anybody for whatever reason and it may be that that's what that state wants to do bek a number of folks come fromqqz)jz+çi" opposite>bazr(t&háhp &hc% party and say, well, we're here and that may not be to the advantapla another. and so both the8l0 democrat and the republican copresident are goinz to have tor /v]jylñ)hw agree "i hat4z

person can serve. coming here and itgs don't have an agenda. it's prettyq3c5ñ-[uy ci rhidzbenign. they want to make sure that the process moves nsyñforward, our process meaning drafts rules and. 1 procedures. so that's the reason we included;bm that provision in here. an article on hy8=vgovernance. there are multipleo wpj5 made as we go forward. if you look at your rules for your own hou[(0f7 or senate back home, that's kind of a thick book. and we mayy decisions about do wet the rules -- if ultimately we come tomb a product an%0a we have rules and procedures that we want to sendloñ out, for examplews0c does that -- do thoseq-3hbules have to be approved unanimously? is it by two thirds? ú5 two thirds of the memberst,z áó÷v ws present? 26>í> ÷e members, exactly whaj z that

is. and)cf?& who is going to serve onx committees? are we going to rotate that yñ among areas of the state among party members?rb$k &yí are the+ be? how are we going to pay for it? multiple otheri xw decisions and ordinarily drafting bylaws someay of thoseó4s the if i was doing thisugwj for a private client i may include t(juv when is91the annual t j where w) what time, first monday in december things like]ç that. we havwdmñ diversez people to try to talk about whataaç uhp &hc% ish#b artic =b& iiib puts inh place a decision making18a÷vxbem process that isq÷=@r(t&háhp &hc% again allows4@ñ protection for both parties) entities should ñ allows7ddñ the5r membersváto either void or invalidate or validate the"gfc

decisions of the copresidents. so, at the initial meeting of the each partyz, copresident. and úún?t majority of the states shall suff1ym of each &)4p÷copresident.kw hereferñ today. )a tomorrow, but in eachú annual meeting which isn'tñ(á in these bylaws butq december therewá u)s& be a 9ñ58b was all veryyt"ñy kind of knew who@wj;ç that was going to b it may be that the republicans ne8bm year say you karen as our copresident next"tuñ year and the democrats have someone else and that's going tot6f]a(t&háhp &hc% be up to the democrats and theáíci republicans to decide. but zyear, we're going to ai=÷ an election2siólñ to8

and as we formally did today, we a;::=eáhat a vice president be appointed because it's a loj@[y of |çñ that vice president to go to6 :h a meeting that he or she can't attend. no7?áq(urjz iii i thinke]n is essentially theizb session orvspk the sectionvzábáoílzuzé9÷ pointmentsév executive commi have done we infornlly over the shall draft a c cú!jh

regulations which shall govern the assembly. those are some of the5 was talking about 1o when are the6j z meetings going to ] be? what vote+÷ counts do we have to get differente0r'gs nl!ktdone?:oq is it&jañ a majority for some, two thirds for others? how many committees shall we have? do we%d!eujt )ut staff?ñ4fl all of those kinds of things thelcga executive committee will be responsible for in putting in the code of regulations because folks who are coming here are going to want$11 to know, when are how are we voting it out?ázé< none of us, i don't think myself or anybody in the execu 37jñ1j committee, want t this toy okay, we made a bunchnfey of! d. decisions and now we want you all to:osyp approve it. some of theseu=y decisions are others.[n3ñ butwt code of regulations and the executivesññ committeez is -- are things that are going÷5 to allow us to understand how thosebob

committeey ay delegate that to an appropriate sub committee to draft the code of$-z z:bjjregulations.'ñ now, of course any decision of the copresidents or the executive of the committee may beú of the majority of the members. so, if they're doing a bad job obviously ultimately thes, power in any organizationñ corporation shareholders and not for profit áé corporation,t(át members,mdthose=km7= decisions can be voided. section v is it shall be) &háhp &hc% state. we have, i think has been an issue that has been part of the article v convention although we have some different#yfp,4tj comments about that about the ultimater%h4i convention. so whenrq we get there,áe& we'll haveñ3w those discussions too. of course these bylaws>ú>ñ can been amended. we'll have to have them. i assume there will be amendments or multipl

aa the course of the next several go forward. again, this isga=i a bare bones document. who isu4( should also beo&/- deciding who gets to stand up and speak so i'll ask senator needer hauser to lead that discussion at this before i leave the mich! senator i'll just make a motion that the bylaws be.n]o approved and adopted by thee ceu#rpñ';t >> we have a motion to approve the:wñ do we have a second? okay.:/o o(q4÷ ñ second noted. we're debating the bylaws. so if you have any discussiofzp on the bylaws, now is the

state your name? >> ,u we have a mic.j áuzug?! je6-kds >> thank you. the point of%[') debate for me would be sectionyau iv. although this wom situation, i would suggest that if majority party does not participatezrsdx in this process, in]fñ either chamber particularly if you have a split legislature -- >> are you talking about arti ii section 4? >> yes, sir. thank you.n@÷a)&í >> so, this is beingbdéz broadca3pí. letjqpove you a4úbñrestate your w name and the state you'refp from. >> representative lori sainec6

from the state of colorado. i'm bringingç¿ section 4,if+ this is the ideal enshrine, however, where there is a split3y legislature and where a majority party to act inçtóz selecting a

i think&]h constitution0÷ and probablyt state constitutions probably h; all of tdmíe them is the- concept of$7ío majority rule and minority ,nkykdéaiññrights. that's what our constitution --rnz that's what thep%çc bill ofáñyé[h(z rights is about that the government can pass l)d pç but#aq)e ará fundamentalú&d$ rights for the minority no matter what the majority may do. andukrvwx the scenario -- it would probably be as good idea toa)tx walk through eachuz of thosesáeñ 6r(tscenarios.n we either have --@s=xñ party controls both housesg apzñ split.d now, in the situation where the repre l4[áive isñs: where one party8m controls both houses, in one of thefek houses or either of the house choose not to participate at (dall we/0 stqr( have thedv( appointing that person and thatksx person is the delegateza6jñ andt9b that is the deleg1hhgw if the mar? jurorty chooses not to

participate. if we have a situation -- well,5smñ let's go specifically to your situation where we have j÷ a majority leader choosing not to tsxppoint

to appoint someone and there's a minority leader that also failed to appoint0a$ someone that%' thea3 copresb ñ th#w we'll have an entity and i'll pick af i &háhp &hc% massachusetts,defnbqc) for example, may say the-pfg democrat$c7 president and the democrat speaker of the house may say we're not appointing anybody. and the minority" may say we are goiz8c to appoint íbó someone. if theseg3ft] two folks fail, then the minority leaders say, we're going toú iapeñ appoint two morep republicans.

two folks, our bylaws:p? recognize that person as the delegation these bylaws that's the impetus to get theogn/z-b majority folks to represent someone. the reason we want theb3íd democrats appointed is foqh9&purposes of legit-oç7m+uz masy. for most of the general assembly.hh(t&háhp &hc% and i know we've talked about that and this wa% 6q best way that we could -- i think that i could address your3 concerns of othergñ ñ people. ñ lastle26t meeting.) a >>÷ representative? >> thank you so much, senator. all due respect, i'm not trying to make it thatd complicated, we have a split legislature in colorado where as theg-atár"ent hasp!h2ç1m appointed#oi officially senator kevin where as:@%!tpñ the other side is-vw

democrat two delegates ifí leadership and?x one chamber does not appoint,c÷j(+immediately the second delegate should be appointed by the minority leader. i'm sure i wasn't clear on that. >> okay. further discussion? you're just=ín making a discussion you're not offering anj?nendment at this point? >> notj >> okay. yes. st vká state. >> thank you. senator mike bell from tennessee. i'm going to make ah jx procedural motion>ipv and that procedurali 4÷thy motion be that we divide theíñ-y question. at first i was considering every article and everyvsy( %zsection but i think myc to be divided among the articles thatiómcn we then article; discussion will be aroundú&pwm@r(t&háhp &hc% article ii. it will give us time to pick thewzcgw-hanging381n fruit by adoptingof]zx (i er andsráat

then take up article9fefdii. my motion is that we divide the÷ók,br(t&háhp &hc% quedgn and then take up theseuáw bylaws not:pp5s a whole but as individual4!=d!úk articles. >> okay. so"czñ we have a 3vdvqirdivision.x and acp let's --xhymñ representative huffman. >>cñg don'tlzthh i think ultimately what i'mwpf6 8jing for is some a on this today and if we get to a point at some point where we can decide how it is thatsatb÷ work on that tonight and thenw$u make a 1 +-0ñ final approval oösr the bylaws77< morning. appropriate. we ought to talk about one thing at a time. that would be ç2chelpful.ñ&? >> cdvkay.

efficient amendmentspb ju tomorrow? anyél opposition to that? do you have a comment on that procedure? would you hand the micñ vñback. >> thank "(; k

some controversy and take themvcba out anddjsmñ consider them secondarily v go ahead and maybe á,jujut the !z6zeñ remainder of the document. i think that wouldziá÷ make more sense because them4 v4ñ sections i'm h-÷ identifying, well,dl in the same article. >> representative jones while you have the micd+db the question i was presenting to theld everybody okay with having the discussion todayqwhlw and making official amendments tomorrow. are youn$ qñ with that? >> i'm okay with that. so -- >> there's a motion on the =o floor. >> yeah. we already have the motionc'k to approve the minutes. today we want to have@ jç the?2b2znpdc discussion about the motion of r approving this and$p7 so

so i and we can have this=q= discussion. back to you,t0my representative bell. >>y"pacnd i'm fine with thatávñ approach. wasn't clear that that's what we were doingb8 ati/÷ this time, but i'm absolutely fine with that ..fñ approach. i would like to take up'smañ diss'--e=9"á mzt÷ on section -- article -- i withdraw my yi=ycmotion. i'xpá)nmez sorry. >> thank you. thank you.szféj 0$t >> i would like to take up discussiong7jñ on=í; articlçp7ué 4. ßu=h!kay@ go ahead. >> some of you may have been in indianapolis may remember i ]fryt languagee tz -3q4n thisnñrning in my hotel roomdn ÷ took[flxuas a brief look at a number of states, some of them who here today who we hope to haveg# part of this prosaysqs

time. one of those states being a[a very, very blue state. hawaii. hawaii right now has a legislature that is vó$6"q=nh cjxdividedo 67-9.i 24-1 in the state i think it's very conceivable that you could have a'6ñ state senateu completely ivcv i don't remember the0a number, butt/1yz they only have eight from the minority party. then you have the state ofz0c wyoming wh;v÷ you havek 26-4 in the senate. an overall number of

i believe also causesj" gt÷ states, such as xdçhawaii such aswe< to be overrepresentedcñbñí? underrepresented from distinct political views from those9=1$z states. tennessee where i come from would alsoygba states where if we had2

tm[ t urp+e oversight and when we're giving direction tor+ñ the #$ be it the governor or the legislative l÷ vcm:jz make appointments t that particularñ (ñcpxentity, we ask them to consider with language similar to thisuz that we urge thepd] states the speakers of h[t÷mú)>:(pr(t&háhp &hc% presidents to send a delegation of up to three and that that delegationfdy(y closely reflect the political makeup of the representative chambers. this]$m language thatn5v we are considering has problems as well. and it has problems in that it o"jyyala=h+ from onez!é÷ just red states2z[ butu as well. i know we're everything from a bipartisan approach but we will have a body thatniy)+ have hawaii participating. is hawaii going to want to#nfwvhs(&#ndf6m a three-person)yá delegation that

overrepresents the'bmñ minority party? i don't think so.l that has an overwhelm9t majority, i would uncomfortable with thecu77fv[ language that we're asking to consider today. thank you. >> thank you representative bell. our discussion isj)jz -- i'mía/zmí&pi going to have us focus on this &cíem#4v sec$-q article ii section 4.l1i+ yes. >> representative townsend frompjr÷ arizona. before i begin and i didn't#gçk want )to interrupt, do we not need a motion toxxvq instead of voting these bylaws to discuss? because we had a different nowçffffíaa i3ó think we'll just -- >> okay. >> we're going to move ahead and have theuçfx discussion. >> okay. so just clarifying that. thank you. and6 just wantayñ topo echo my

colle furtherëwçpb part of the bylawsdó bezñ representative of article x -- excuse me the 10th amendment that allows the statesd decide. is that why we are0 and i think thatp anything, our state in arizona has dsj ownmf4set of al0a challenges and according to the actual legal wording of these bylawsnd puts me in particular the waybg(# that these aräjj written in a place wherevbqf&uld '8hpqw to be2ebr appointed according tojsáb the language and wording that that's in there. so i think9" complication is such;8!ç from statej direction to the states$;bkis going to create compln

to recommend that we just make@&p9 it simple and leave it to theâ ddsé z:ó(ora&íñ< "8áeçú#vúdecide. >> mrs. chairman -- >> representative huffman. >> this is an important issue. we're not talking about who(j theh< delegaerb;;iu)s& be to the convention. that's -- whether ultimately the rules that we9 produce"t(# going indication like say at j÷ thisbja÷ point. this is under a not for profit if you:10÷ had 50< the 53 members of the cleveland browns and8>o that'saé well, we know who they are. we're not going top-lz÷ people come and qmvote. so, it's simply a how be given or statedzdgy wsnuñsaúñ ctyhere?

state is&÷ñ we could do that, but who -- howel do we$bpg÷ know who that is? is it again the person whot interested in this4kó soíyn÷ i'm deciding+ zi that's )p&lyá=w what w!"w8( to nr concerned about as i've gone the gentlemansr)q+fromeey i[ma÷tennesseea%[mñ zu)árjr)j2dixñ let's let the state kek legislatures, you make it up as close as you can to the political makeup,7gc that doesn't help the representative from colorado. ok!'[=] and if your stateop6jy of let's help ormos#xhálet's ,dd58ó/;%árq states decide, that doesn't help the representative from colorado. and if we?$nñ -- and in the great statekú know what, we're not appointing

any democrats and that may happen to many dem1kq&(5ij @r(t&háhp &hc% republicans across dnfjó counsel industry. so each of the things that you'rewq the question w!dñis, at someá7(b point we have tovqx boil this down to a plan that doesn't interrupt or upset a number of c-h othersìáhp &hc% the last thin?4 r i will say is this doep4help me either. i'k 1/&tdñ going to be a state5n e÷g÷v"#h(t&háhp &hc% legislature so i can't beh,0ñ appointed which hardly seems dét(r). we can't makerv on any individual here can be appointed. we have that at the first mt.sl vernon assembly. somebody said nobody will ever -- one of the áp legislaturea ìé8rujttk would ever appoint 6,÷ me, which -- so this is a document that's going to-whe÷ last of course, houses and senates go back and forth depending on parties also. but these are valid points you're making.tu-'n absolutely. >> and i would.r)kxkñ add to that

i think what you could doh clear it up is takeçlñ section viii, remove it andcñl apply itz toá!@/ section iv of article;érr to clarify. it's one in the same vbézissue. and it's tacked so9ur)t you were to take section viii and put it on section iv and 0nñ the first part,u1 the6$÷ current section iv so to where it's noto- that it does alou to the t in some kind of conflict the states can move in a different movement thate+_qp&7dé)f?b looking for then this body can then appoint. i'll leave it there. >> thank you, representative townsend. right here. >ñg representative from south dakota. my colleague, jim has a comment as well on this section. one of the things@ looking to obtain here is k,"mñ

increased participation. i believe that possibl( increasing the numbers of officialék)x delegates might be d helpful,npd will effect the number of people who are able to yigo in some cases and the peopleu2t8ñ who are interested in going in cases and i'll letññ my colleague representative continue with his comments.÷ 4 >> representative from is south dakota, ly at them

trying to move this thing forward. thank you. >> okay.zm;j representative, thank q%3you. let's have the gentleman right there. >> i'm the one holding the +á&ax mic ]÷r'e. >> okay. >> i'm]gv arthur q(orr from alabama gentlemen just said about having -- we hadí discussed know if representative taxxhuffman2ìáhp &hc% had a reason for narrowing it down tox![ñthree. ñî sure there's a(xahz reason behind it. respond. >>f#aazñ yeah. mr. chairman? >> go ahead. >> first of all,h[= i think that's a reasonable proposal. there's a couple of reasonsp-v!nd we came down withq with three. but i think what the representative from south dakota has mentioned probablyny supersedes most of; reasons. i'll give you those real quick. one is it costs a lot of money to send people here. ultimately we have to make provisions for everyonetb$v9a ere. those are twoiçf0vpdoñ things. thirdnúqy÷ thing is, it' have an odd numbergvç when you have to, things. somebody has to make asaf decision. don't say five because

makes it even moreqsc complicated. and, you know, also arej that are going to send six people every timem because they can afford itf orcfñ +ú becausea closer or they're more interested or-p8z whatever it is. we're going to have oermg states that are always going to send one person.qgh/ and on the? committees,cxb/ú and?ñ thinó#t[w1dg÷ like 1áun that rñ it váb;amay -- and i think a( lot of that can be controlled óf3áujá$u$e committee make-up comes through the co-presidents and things like that. so if the answer is and it may solve anh it will solve'm:z÷ all of the, us but if the answer isg each delegation a six-member"twvxogl delegation and majorityocr in each house, eachíoue k h z8ñx"(c

$vñl,s l2 andvl6e the minorities leaders .1 and that might help the problem. >> okay to that end in alabama that's how we make up our two for the minority8[mdhját forh=3ñ the majority& er in each ñ> house. since mountví vernon has gone through the be much better. also we are, mosts#u ç of us, are part-time legislators. and coming to mee4hd/ sometimes ofx course you gethwb8tqi retirements from the legislature sorts of conflicts where people&%$dtr(t&háhp &hc% are able to go not azál go.md if you only narrows closes down. you may just1aú have one particular meeting9ç representing aäs stay and it may be somebody from the minority mupñparty. anyway, six5xiku?># for the majority, one froáuéz minority in3ú;ze\ñl3&

chamber, the purple states whereg"7 representative h#0xcn mentioned that butmbmz÷ i couldp40jç seek situation if we were a divided state, thath,wñ# tñ third person, being chosen by thea"ñ minority party we have ours in one houseu2 in the other might not eversi)+r so again on behalf of alabama, we would1g certainly be) tr in5[[ favor $$v(t&háhp &hc% of having six inserted there for tomorrow. >> thank you, senator.7br let's have -- further discussion? go ahead. >> yeah, i'm john wood from florida. a couple of technical clarifications. i thinkh it's the intent of thisls+éu document that any(wy

i think we're talking about republicansó2ve and democrats. and if that's what we're talkingvá1tp that because you know,sx2bi you're a minority political party, you might be a party[j#) one. the &u1 libertarian, theicxe÷ -- i knowr in farmworkers or something like that. or whatever, imrsefn mean, you know. clear. talking about but when we go. and thenu 1p/ expansion of the:>p delegations. obviously ÷florida's got quite a large one here. but i think more important,gv&ñ we've gotcw(ú to thinky ,yñ about that71dz this is a bipartisan politl movement4b0ñ to assert the compg0!iñ republic, to assert the sovereignties of the ñstates. why wouldn't we want everybody

legislator in america to be a member of this organization.'ic6ñ e and i would like to have some yzq of:çt participation of everyga& >h0u legislative memberwmor or the opportunity for every:;qdñ elected legislative statel5 ÷ legislature÷ this great$ memb ma maybe notól a26#my voting delegate. but to be a member of this association.6mrze+i and then my final, my final ]'t and maybe it doesn't go to:táju article section 4b8 q we're talking about, but inlkb5y florida, we have a great ÷hñ+qi q%=9of transparency. and i think thaí hh this organization needs to be totally transparent and itsá- totally public to the american people. thank you.o,ta >> thankbz :8h+[you. representative wood. gentleman here in the front row.k( >> while the mics coming over chair, if i @=ld just respond.:ajr i think those are good comments ly uuzé need to clarify the elected 3m language and i thinkd(5

the transparency items are goingh to be something that the9 executive3bcommittee, how we publish those and put those on the o %ywebsite,8 aspirational language7q about that can go into theïbylaws if you want to give me something we can try to put this in there for final approval tomorrow.z0@2ñ#3hçó%]x the republican democrat thing public out there you know, sometimes the media talks about it. i'm not sure whatá senator in hawaii is. is he a libertarian? oh, he is a republican. if he decides to become a member of the constitutional f0iw party. but so you know, i don't -- i don't think we shouldñenshrine ÷"ny]x 2á j p r(t&háhp &hc% but you're right.gfn we are talking aboutpv republicans and democrats. forget,ñbylñ so we will get back to you. but you had a third issue.cbñ@p yeah. well and about in fact there arer0ç going to be, you know,÷tflorida i think2hñ had 12 folks in indianapolisn7]íç

we8ofv everybody to and we had -- i think we had somedhi% designations as between d%# ,q etdxar $ do is say we wantyw everybody who wang1/xñ come to come and participate in some meaningful v!2y way. but again this9÷ycy document is/(sj (t&háh@sk'rá"ti p!out what happens at decision time. who gets to decide. well-meaning >÷/ comev&19p up from florida along with the 12;! ht appointedxjab guys andc r galsu have a different opinion. the vote comes from the delegation. who is's on thena delegation? but certainly we want everybodyg&1á ÷bú aiq%%aq%9 think that"úwy expanding it out tomm1k six address a lot of that, not all of it. >> thank you. >> let's go with the gentleman right here. oh, yes.:srñ@yk m6 i recognized you.?q >> scott lambfeld from virginia. i'm

colleague and we're looking at these provisions andq to all of you speak. and the thought occurçú1t to íñ anda(?want to be clear," thought occurs to me this you've got a couple of here}you're trying toús first of all, clearly you're how many people you haveqeúd match. i understand that.7 i think what you're hearing from people though in the room@ñ is ñg art size. becausekdóñ you may have6c.aiiiiñ surprise. and the surprise is, that you've might be ready to deal with.rç and that's a good problem to have.5 and therdç thing that sits inbfk my mind is important as we go forward is] to remember that the"kç ultimate work product of what you'reúve÷ proposing that we do isq0 to create rutl

objection of everything you're trying do and right nowf#ñ we are #ñ having a big debate about bye6>um bylaws. at the end of the day, someonex. will make a 'e÷÷t['u"gment about the legitimacy of what we have done heá 1//b go& my"÷ judgment, that wei8v7y ensure that ,r=hen people6v&ook from@&vdub4ç&riel the outside in, these folks bent over backwards to be inclusive and to have as many vús9s as ñ¡ come to d!mabthis so that int fact, when that convention and those old gray fathersd:dcç sitting up there vñ,6o:o deciding whether or not to adopt the hard work of this group have to decision, they will say they did not constrain things. sgy lzhósoá[)]1h)w what i would suggest to you is be a little careful

about drilling downñ un too deeply into how these delegations are determined."búñ do focusfmir on ayzz manageable number particularly aniîiu number, because you have to manage with that in mind. but ath)÷ the same so%y q who had been outside and willjt, outside, q- convention, we will have to a judgment about what we've done here. >> thank you representative.8 >>? wo we're a think tank. in for the think tank work we have to have ideas and participation. in indianapolis we had just over 30.x we are leaving a lothuvez of states on the table. they are noth@ and to the senator's point, w80÷c÷ going to be judgedda#y later

by how9 and how much work we did.'[fwç so to the point of the three five or seven=;&r is going to encourage #qparticipation, in that if i'm m%z%ty leader andt4@< i decide not to send my cf two delegates but my minority leader to the state of indiana i'm not likely to miss the opportunity to send the majority's voice with him.f38 l5z majority rule, minority writes. ideas, it doesn't matter. but ultimately we need all 50 states here to have those' because we're not'p at the"8e we needgd ez 50 states. we need legislators here to carry theáatu; ideas back to all states. so if we