tv programming, and we would like to get your thoughts on our shows. e-mail us at cspan.org to leave your comments and suggestions. >> we'd like to tell you about other american history tv programs. join us every starred at 6:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. eastern for a special look at the civil warç we'll bring you to the battlefields. we'll bring you the latest historical forums on the subject. that's programs on the civil wat saturdays at 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> here is a look at some of the programs you will find christmas day on the c-span networks. holiday festivities start at 10:00 p.m. eastern with the lighting of the national christmas tree, followed by the white house christmas decorations with first lady michelle obama and the lighting of the capital christmas tree. after 12:30 p.m.

celebrity activists talk about their causes. former governor jeb bush on the bill of rights and the founding fathers. on cspan 2 at 10:00 a.m. eastern, venturing into the argument of good writing with steve pin ker. at 7:00 p.m., pamela paul and others talk about their reading habits. the fall of the berlin wall with cspan footage of president george w. bush and bob dole, with speeches from presidents john kennedy and ronald reagan. at noon, fashion experts on first ladies fashion choices and how they represented the styles of the times in which they live. of the times in which thñ 10:00 news anchor tom brokaw on his more than 50 years of reporting on world events. that's on christmas day on the cspan networks.

for a complete schedule go to c-span.org. >> american history tv visited the macarthur memorial in norfolk, virginia, hosting a symposium marking the world war i centennial. author katrine clay talks about royal cousins george v of ing gland, kaiser will hem. of germany and nicholas ii, of russia on the eve of the first world war with and how it impacted the coming global conflict. this is about 50 minutes. >> our first speaker today is catrine clay who had two years. from the 1980s to 2003 she was a writer, director and producer for the british broadcasting corporation, the bbc, where she directed numerous documentary projects and worked as a producer for the acclaimed series time watch. during this period, she also wrote several books.

in her second career ms. clay left the bbc to become a full time writer. accomplished researcher and outstanding story teller. king kaiser czar is more closely tied to the topic today and recounts the lives of the three royal cousins, georgeie, willie and nicky who became king george v of great britain, kaiser wilhelm ii of germany and czar nicholas ii of russia. all relatives of queen victoria, three royal cousins.en[ in a compelling exploration of

oh family drama clay reveals how family dynamics had real historical significance, especially for world war i which toppled kaiser wilhelm the second, el killed czar nicholas ii and left only george v in place on his throne. her book recounts the majesty and dysfunction of three royal boys turned heads of state in the lead up to world war i. i welcome to you today catrine clay whose topic is entitled "a$ royal countdown to war." >> thank you.o=e,ñ

yes, it's -- the royals is a very, very small strand in an incredibly complicated story as you know. story, as you know. nicholas the czar beg marrieded to yet another grandchild of 7bq queen victoria's. there they are. it's their relationship which to an extent contributes this huge

labyrinth of oh what leads to the first world war. it is the problem really of everything that is private as far as some concerns. that is to say their cousins. they are in a family with loves and hates. in a sense one of the things you could look at with me is, you know, if they have friendships, suddenly they become alliances. you think you are doing something private but you're not. you're going on a visit to a country. of course suddenly everyone says, ah-ha.

this is significant. they were unaware of oh how much their private lives and private hates and los and preferences played out on the big stage. there are various reasons for this of course. which we'll look at today. let's have a quick look at the first cousin. this is nicholas a young 5-year-old. what i think you should know about him is he was absolutely adored by his parents. a loved child. a child who grew up to be an autocrat. not necessarily extremely bright, but bright enough, you know. if he hadn't been -- if he had been a constitutional monarch with good advice, which he took, i think there would have been a great deal less trouble for russia and for all of us. he was a decent man and a nice man.

his cousin kaiser wilhelm when he was grown up, he said about him, the czar is not false. he is weak. weak is not treacherous. but it fulfills the same function. and that's such an interesting thing to say.s quite honestly, i think the kaiser was one of the more intelligent of the three. but he was so messed up, as we know that that's a dangerous combination and dangerous he certainly was.á%d÷ nicholas grew up.

he was very shall and frail. his grand duke uncles were huge, towering. he was always battling. he never wanted to be czar. of course he married alex, queen victoria's favorite grand daughter who was absolutely certain about one thing. that was the autocracy of oh her husband. she was forever saying to him, be firm. that's just what he could not be. here is george v. his brother died. so he married his brother's fiancee and became prince of wales and then george v. likewise a happy childhood, as a matter of fact. queen victoria called them wild as hawks. these children of edward vii and princess alexandra who were the parents and were indulgent.

if they were doing lessons and felt like taking them out for a nice walk or a party they walked in and said, come on. away we go. this is how they grew up. he went into the navy. again, had not wanted to be king. but had to leave, had to become prince of wales and then king. it's worth remembering this when we compare to the next one. there he is. that's willie. he became kaiser wilhelm ii. i'm sure you all know when he was born it was a breach birth. it wasn't just his left arm. it was all half size. you know i'm sure. it also affected his inner ear. he had no balance. our prime minister in england when he talked about him would

say "not quite there." he was extremely damaged. moreover in being damaged his mother found she could not really love him. so he grew up very disturbed and prone to be flattered and flattered he most certainly was. so in due course he came into the hands of some very are rabid monarchists. they told him what he needed was to have his personal rule.%zfby that was the great phase they used. personal rule. the trouble with that is that, of course, they influenced him by the back stairs. what they felt was absolutely a hate for britain. you have a line-up gradually building up in europe. of this young kaiser being taught in a way to hate.

to an extent the thing he was because he was half english. in england when he was with the english family, he was called william with. in germany he was called wilhelm with a german family. he's a split character which is he earned their undying hate because he took away from their beloved father's kingdom rather a large piece which they never so they hated germany and bismark. then they married, the king of eng gland, edward vii.váz÷ they influenced very, very

strongly. husbands and sons in due course. there is a strong feeling in both the russian family and the english family that really theyy ostracized willie a lot of the time. they snub him. they don't like him. this does play into the whole story..q-ñ one of the things that happened is that when alexandr who is on the left when her husband became edward vii. the very first thing they did was to organize a trip to france. unconstitutional act he committed in his reign because he was, of course, a constitutional monarch whereas the others were autocrats.

he told no one he was going. frederick, his query wrote an interesting memoir. said no one knew where he was going. he was going to have a trip, a nice happy trip around europe in his yacht and so on and so forth. that's all it was -- innocent. he was going straight for france out of it -- that was in 1903. by 1904 you had the entante cordial. it meant line-up against germany. it was about the colonies. what they managed to do at the conference a couple of years later is that it then moracco and northern france but not for germany.

one of the great phrases willie liked was a place in the sun. they were not given a place in the sun because, of course, tñ was a threat to the others. so there was none. that caused yet another line of antagonism. there is willie. dressed in -- you know, this is his split personality. queen victoria had given him a splendid outfit. had his photograph taken. but underneath he writes, i bide my time. he calls himself william, prince of prussia, 1884. if ever there was a split personality. william on the one hand and prince of prussia on the other.

then, "i bide my time" which was under his friends who hated britain. what was he biding his time for is this you may ask yourself. he was going to get his revenge is sort of how he felt. at that stage. but of course another part of him loved the english family and was devastated when it went wrong. so the personality s of these people play very largely into just for pleasure, to show you one of his 400 uniforms that he had. what i think is that he had to become something. you had to think when he was a child, he had lessons from 6:00 in the morning until 6:00 at night in the summer, in 7:00 in the morning until 7:00 at night in winter. training to be kaiser, he had to learn everything.

he did fine in school but he also had to learn to ride, because you can't learn to be a kiszer if you don't rise and you don't shoot. and he only had one arm. he fell off that horse again and again. he got on and eventually he could do it. what's more, he could feed himself because he was given a special implement with a fork, a soon, a knife and all that. he cope ed -- this is what's interesting about him, it seems to me. he coped with his very, very difficult situation rather well. emotionally he didn't cope well. i think that's where the gap comes. so here he is once again. signing william. he is posing. people were struck that he didn't really look like that. he wasn't tall, wasn't all that commanding.t"[

these are the pictures that ordinary german family had in their house. rather like in the second warld war. they had him. people believe this is how he was. he wasn't.0a] instead you have the other two, who were terrifically good mates and this photograph is often called twins. they look so alike. both loved their royal yachts with 400 ratings and whatever else they had. they used to meet in places. they just -- there is a friendship, a family alliance which plays out very strongly on the big stage. it is constitutional. this is what desperately was needed for willie in germany and nicky in russia.

you may know this drawing. there are no photographs of it. it also gives you an idea of the spleñdor.& this was kaiser wilhelm's youngest child. he only had one daughter. six strapping sons and one daughter. they all arrived in the royal yacht.

it appeared grand and splendid. you can probably pick them out for yourself. this is the letter george is sending to in this casy.wsjh i will read toyota you if i can hss# >> my dearest nicky, you will remember the many satisfactory conversations we had last year

in berlin. when we both so entirely agreed upon the great importance of maintaining our friendly relations between our two countries. i confess i feel so anxious upon this subject that i write this private letter to explain what is causing this anxiety. he calls it private. in the royal archives, where i was lucky to be able to work at windsor castle in that very big stone tower which you have probably seen, there is, apart from his diaries which are very fascinating to read or to fix, there is a copy of this letter, and it's written in lord

stanfordan's hand, his private secretary. previous to that, there is a draft written by the foreign office.)h0áñ so you see here is this fatal thing, of so called private letter. which is massively ñ+÷political and what it is essentially saying is, yes, we are going to be allies and germany is not.ó ñ and in fact, already in 1912, in december, there had been a cleeg's art in germany, which is the royal counsel, and in the previous month, there had been a war council in egypt too, so that is talking about 1912. this is a long time before nothing went up.

i would just perhaps read out to you if i've got time, the, what you might call the royal countdown to war. do i have five minutes and i can do this? okay. well, in february 1914, nicky's minister of internal affairs advised against war with germany. he wrote a memo about it. he said it would not be a short war. there is no possibility it would be a short war and that revolution would likely follow. russia was not prepared for war neither economically nor politically. anyway, the main belligerence was his opinion was britain, not russia. that's the advice in russia. it's true that russia wasn't

ready for war. by the 16th of june 1914 , george is writing the private letter that you see above there. by the 28th of june people used to. say was the start of the first world war, but was just the match striking the light. 23rd of july, making it impossible on the 25th of july, henry returns to germany from buckingham palace. henry is the ki zer kaiser's younger brother. the two danish princesses because the dowager czarina is

visiting her sister. now they have to race for russia. and henry has to race for germany. along with everything else. i mean nannies and doctors and diplomats and all sorts of people in the wrong places and they were racing to get back to their own country business this point. george v actually has to cancel his visit to good win races, which is rather upsetting. and the czar still believes at kaiser would never wage war against him, that's what he's saying. he just can't believe that his cousin would do this. the one thing the cousins share always and call themselves royal colleagues is the view about socialists, anarchists in the case of the russians and ca of agitators.

what they call the monkey house. entirely in agreement these three cousins as to what a shower they are. of course the danger of revolution. it is the single reason why one cousin, george v who loved his other cousin nicholas ii didn't help him to find asylum in july in approximate 19 because he knew that it could spread to good and peaceful england. and he ditched him as we all know. here we go, by the 28th of july, austria has declared war on serbia. it's importan⌝ to remember that

the bam clkans have been troubl for a long time as well. that didn't come out of the blue either. it was the great powers like austria hungary, germany and russia behind the wings, pulling the puppet strings. as always. now wilhelm moves into one of his favorite roles which is as kriegs heir, the warlord. he struts around full of bombast, hardly knowing who he is. until one day it dawns on him that this really means he might be having to fight his cousins and he's absolutely appalled. and goes around to the palace saying too many enemies, how can my cousins do this to me? there he is, a child that was split as a child, still in the same psychological situation. so he finds that his navy is

the reason for that as we know is turpits who got the army going with the army bill of 1913. but had his risk theory so for every great battleship. every three of britain, germany was to have two. interesting actually to my mind. you know, he didn't say three for three. he said two for three. anyway, the risk theory worked. they were ready. russia was not. germany was ready. so willie, sends his cousin in russia a telegram -- cipher as always. this is the most horrible war that will ever be witnessed. he thinks it is an act of treachery from one royal colleague to another to be doing the this by which he ignores the fact that austria-hung gary has

started the ultimatums and things. he says, well, what's he talking about? had i gone mad? it can't happen. we can't stop all this now. george v in his diary on july 30th writes things look very black. i saw it myself. his diary is bound in green leather. the handwriting is as you saw here, very schoolboy handwriting. things look very black, true enough. willie wrote at the same time, so the celebrated encirclement of germany has finally become an established fact. the purely anti-german policy -ñ which england has been pursuing all over the world has won the most spectacular victory. even after his death edward vi is stronger than i although i am still alive.

that's his point of view, obviously. not everyone's point of view. so by the 31st of july, momentum george v sees kitchener in the afternoon. in the evening he's looking through his stamp collection which is a nice, calming thing to do. goes to bed at 11:30. awoken by his query. i has a draft from the czar germany declares war on russia.

at this moment the public isn5d dead against it. this is literally three days before it is settled that we're going to go to war and the public in britain is still dead against it. obviously the machine gets going and the newspaper or whatever else getsqd.÷ñ going and within days the public's mood is míepr changing. that is really how powerful monarchy can be actually and the press. so what do the king and queen do on the 4th of august? they choose their russian carriage to go out into the crowds, into the streets, out of buckingham palace and around and

what do they find? they find streets and streets of cheering, madly cheering people, the whole mood completely turned around. we were forced to go out on the balcony three times. so there is the 12 hour ultimatum that passes and in the end on the 4th of august in his diary, george v writes4kz fair warm, showers and windy. at 10:45 i held a council to

declare war on germany. it's a terrible catastrophe but i love that. then finally, as a final thing we have august 6th, austria declares war on germany. so many enemies. but in a speech to the people wearing one of his grand uniforms he shouts out, you know, i am the instrument of the most high, i am his sword, woe and death to all who resist my will.  of the war he was in exile, monarchy gone there, czar was dead, and the only person who thrived brilliantly, of course was george &ev.

thank you. [ applause ] is there time for questions or not? good yes. >> any questions? >> question. >> tell us how you got get the queen's permission to use the archives? >> what a good question. the queen gave me a medal, which is a nice. a medal of the royal victorian order and i'm a lieutenant of the royal victorian order and it's a shaming thing in a way.

for a year we followed around making a documentary, this is when i was still with the bbc before i had retired and we were following her around for a year and actually we came to america and did all sorts of thing and aapbq! in made another . documentary. she liked the films. then many years later when i left the bbc and was wanting to write my first proper book, that was king kaiser czar i thought i would ask her if i could use the royal archives. there was letters from the cousins. there was diaries which were riveting and she gave me permission sway wonderful thing because not many people get permission, you know. it's a rather precious place,

really. a bell goes at 11:00 precisely when you're up there and you've got all the diaries and you're longing to spend every minutevp looking at them. but when the bell goes you have to gown stairs into a little sitting room and you have already said that you want either tea or coffee and allowed to have two biscuits and you sit there with a couple of other privileged researchers, and, you know, you say, i say to jane ridley what are you writing. and she says i'm doing the queen q you get back to the letters and the diaries but that was the luck i had. >> more questions.

>> was there any contact with the family after the war in any shape or form? >> honestly, i mean you may have detected i feel sorry for poor old willie. i mean the fact is in exile never one single word. i mean neither written or spoken ever passed between those twonu cousins ever again. and actually george wrote in his diary at one point, he's the greatest -- what did he call him? some criminal, i think he used ever known. i mean, he was simple. a good simple man, george v. so he saw things in fairly straightforward terms. and he just, you know, that's it. he was seen as the criminal. you know, in many ways he was, of course. nothing. obviously as some of the russian

family did come over to england, but not, not the family, the imperial family all killed.w]9e >> in your talk and most of the things i read there was this air of inevitablity of starting the war. was there ever a point in one of the three monarchs could have stopped it? >> short answer? not me, i don't think so. other speakers i'm sure which is one of the good things about an event like this, you get all these different views of a situation but i would say no. and to give you a different kind of answer, maybe we could hop to switzerland for a minute to zurich in a 1915.

and i'm sure you know, you know, it was full of spies and god knows what else. everyone a passivist or socialist everyone ended up in switzerland, neutral switzerland including lenin. lenin spent his time in the central library writing a book on imperialism or capitalism. i can't remember one of the titles. i'm sure one of the scholars here would know twa what it was. the thesis was predictablely the capitalism was a system would lead typical perry allism because you need more profit, you know. so you have to go elsewhere to get your profit and that in turn would inevitably lead to war. that's one way of looking at it. that was sort of the, he, of course, went off suddenly disappeared from zurich some time in watch 1917 to make real revolution elsewhere and a&

nightmare for the czar. there's also that going on. one has to be the huge sort of rather like the map that we were showing earlier on, you know. i think there was all this happening, an awful lot of stuff was happening. i doubt any of the three could do anything about it. but in the early years, if this early years if people -- if the family had handled willie right, or an even bigger what if he didn't have that terrible breach birth and the brightest of the three, i would say, and he hadn't fallen into the hands of, you know -- you could imagine a different outcome. but that's not the way it was. >> hello. >> hello. >> i recently completed or read

a history of world war i by john keagan and he express ad view i had not heard before. what he said was before serbia issued its ultimatum, bust 6÷

that? >> i knew john keagan, actually, not just because we shared a subject. we talked about this. and i think -- i think that was a really, a very valuable way of looking at it to tell you the truth. thew only thing i would add to t what i talked about today which is if willie was different, if the kaiser had been different he might not have said yes. mind you the alliance was an alliance and what's more the wales copenhagen link as the germans like to call the two danish sisters and the way they influenced t(5)"gñ respective husbands, that was very active as well. so you did really have two camps. >> question here in the back. could you speak about the danish princesses and their fashion -- >> i'm glad you asked.

shortening this talking left out all sorts of things. i was looking down at my notes thinking i better leavep that out. the danish princesses were absolutely brilliant at the2=7v politics of fashion. so they would appear in identical clothes to make it obvious that the alliance was between britain and russia. they did it at all very sort of key moments and the public was enchanted and didn't realize they were being brainwashed. but they did this and both ofvgv them had the habit. if germans came to the russian court or to buckingham palace, i mean they frequently froze out, you know -- there was once when the king of prussia before he became king of kaiser he went to visit, they were in weisbaden.

there they wererg#yx spying. and she insisted that she wouldn't see him and she was ill. she wouldn't see him. and unbelievable thing to do, you know. in a private family you can just about do it. this had huge political significance and the very next day she was partying and often out. at the beginning of the war the czarina said thank goodness we're finally at war with germany. i can tell you how pleased i am. so when they were dressing in identical clothes, the5nfçi bri public and the russian public knew what this meant. >> there's a question here.

>> thank you. could you tell us please who did willie marry and what did she think of this >> who? >> willie. >> donna? >> william's wife. >> william's wife had nothing to say about anything. donna -- no. actually they were very rude. the two princess were rude about donna. i think they called her a cow but meaning that she just was there to breed, you know. and she did in fact. ym+mme1ñ seven children. it was not -- it's a big subject, a very, very big subject about willheim's sexuality. but she was just the mother of the children and the wife. i wouldn't say they had a bad relationship at all but he certainly wasn't going to be listening to her opinions on "gk5pá who you meant, donna?

yes. yes. absolutely. no, in a way she was a good wife to him because she did what was needed. you know? ÷÷u know? wilhelm, i saw in one of the photographs, it looked like he was wearing a royal navy uniform. i was wondering if you could talk a little bit about his relationship with the royal navy, again the split personality and how that impacted the naval race and increased tensions in europe. >> that is, of course, the right kind of question to ask here. it's so true. it is another thing i cut out of the talk actually so i'm very pleased because it was an swy extraordinary thing because these royal colleagues, the three of them, were forever exchanging uniforms. they'd make each other admirals in their own -- in their navies. or colonels in the prussian army. there's georgy wearing all this sort of thing. it was an extraordinary thing. in william's case -- we call him william because he's wearing the english admiral's uniform -- he

was fantastically proud of it. he really, really was pleased to be it, you see? but at the same time, he makes fun of it. this is the terrible thing. and in the end, of course, once they're all at war with one another, they have to kind of give each other back. you know? the medals and -- it's a sort of crazy situation they are in. unavoidable, i guess. all the flags incidentally had to be taken down. the world or russian flags in windsor castle chapel. george's chapel at windsor  and alexandra predictably said this is ridiculous, take them down. that's how it was. it's very lucky you mentioned it. when we were looking at the photographs, i forgot to say it was english admiral which is the whole point of him signing it "william." >> curiosity's got the better of me with your letter there on the

screen. i'd love to see the second page. but could you explain what he was referring to when he talks about persia there in the very last line? >> oh, my lord. i hope very, very much that one of your other speakers will tell you a bit about that. but we forget completely where else trouble was brewing the whole time. at that time persia was a really, really big issue.gxkx it sort of got lost in the margins of history after a while. but it was. it was the big concern. the ottoman empire and who was going to get what. all that was going on and afghanistan, god knows. all sorts of things. but of course, eventually it all focused on our -- essentially european war and i obviously need to add my personal opinion, we obviously couldn't have won

this war, could we, without you americans coming in on our side. i'm not at all sure that we'd ever have won it. so i actually thank you on behalf of the british. >> was there much of a movement, a feeling, of going after wilhelm after the war, putting pressure on the dutch to give him up for some sort of -- >> not a thing. >> -- retribution, whatever? >> not a thing. and there are famous photographs -- i'm sure you've seen of him chopping wood and things like that. just being an old man. he had a little bit of a court and things, but absolutely no one. well, until hitler of course sent a wreath when he died. but i mean no, nothing. and he was just abandoned, you might say, or forgotten. no.

>> what was the reaction of kinñ y> what was the reaction of kinñ the throne or was overthrown. what was the correspondence with that? >> yes. i mean that is -- i think probably a lot of books have been written about it. it is really a book on its own, isn't it? i mean it was a terrible n2ñ situation for him to be in because it was brought to bare on him that he was a constitutional monarch and he had to do what he was told. he could not help. he wrote in his diary, i can't remember the wording now but he was devastated. this terrible, terrible thing is happening. and he sort of felt tod#ff%xtent he hadn't been able to help. but he hadn't been able to. you know? >> are there other questions?

all right. there's a couple more back here. >> we're doing much better for time. >> hi there. all three of these men, they wore uniforms, they gave each other medals, they looked splendid in them to be sure, but to what extent were they actually military men? that is to say, what kinds of hands-on role, what kind of role in strategy? did they meddle or were they content to remain aloof from the actual prosecution of the war? >> not much is the answer. georgie was the only one who actually was genuinely military. not military. if his brother hadn't died, he'd have carried on, i guess. so he had actual experience.

but being a constitutional monarchy, he took no part in anything and what he would do was go to france and see the troops and award medals and things like that. that was it. william was -- wilhelm, much more complicated, because he half believed he was the clink's heir. he hadn't understood they were bypassing him all the time. what they did was used the imperial train rather cleverly. nice train. they put him in there and told him to go east or west or -- they kept him away. he likewise didn't. bear in mind that before the war, their experience was to sort of -- or his was to go on maneuvers. but you didn't actually have to do anything. you had to be the kaiser taking the salute and so on. it was pageantry.h9ak there was no real experience. he had no idea about strategy. i think he was quite a problem

actually for hindenburg and so on, so forth. and the czar did go to the front and that was -- and took command. that i hope someone may be talking about this properly because that's another huge subject because it was a terrible mistake for the simple reason that when things went worse and worse for russia -- which it most certainly did -- they now blamed him. and he was, likewise, not a strategist, really. but he felt he needed to be there. it was a good thought, in a way. he thought he should be there leading his men, and so on. but of course, the suffering there was quite terrible. >> i wanted to ask about wilhelm and franz ferdinand. there are movie clips showing

that. were they close and what was wilhelm's relationship with the imperial family like franz joseph and ferdinand as well? >> i don't think they were particularly close. they were just in the sense of royal colleagues, that great phrase. they all felt that and we will stand shoulder to shoulder against, you know, all the forces of anarchy and socialism. so they had that. they shared that. but they didn't have i don't think at all a close relationship. it was his feeling, his emotion, i will be pretty sure, lay with his english family, ironically. he was massively upset by their snubs and rejections. and furious. that's where his heart lay. if he had been able -- i think. someone else may answer this completely differently. but that would be my thing. >> if you'll permit me, i'm going to ask the last question here. as an author, particularly when you're writing about individuals in a biographical fashion,

authors frequently find themselves growing very close to the people they write about. so i was just wondering in terms of reading all these archives where do you stand with regard did you find yourself siding >> it is a very interesting process, isn't it. sort of you get to know them so well. u$en another and then another. really. i felt for them all at different times. but the person i would have liked to gone out to have lunch with or dinner, that would have been edward vii.,wd[ [ laughter ] >> let's all give a hand for catrine clay. [ applause ]0cl!j >> here on c-span3 all this week we are featuring american history tv programming. we'd like to get your thoughts on our shows. e-mail us at americanhistorytv