ght, smoother. how do we get rid of the do friction in this system.ricti that's howon you make things more efficient. those concerns o in the late 19th century about the souls of the workers, humanity is put to the side. yes? >> like replaced taylor does he supplement taylor, like in his ideas? >> ford is less of a theory theoryitician. ford comes up with the $5 day and the leisure is kind of an pr incentive to produce.t if you work at ford you earn enough to buy the product.cts. there's a different theory, i think embedded in ford's factories. in certainnl aspects, most tries industries at this time were th taken up with this idea of systemizing the task the individual tasks and breaking brea them dowkin into ever smaller

pieces. so it works both ways. let's move on to christine fredericks. i want to make sure we talk about the new housekeeping .ks. christine frederick herself was it on not the first to hit on this idea of a household engineer. the whole professioncime economics is becoming more expert driven in this period. t thish is in the early 20th 0th ce century home economics class. home economics will be7"v?z taught in schools as a subject. did any of you take home ec?it the roodsts are in this period. int it's an area that was thought to be just something individual private household things passed ers to on from mothers to daughters. think of the beacher sisters who were part of this in a way, too. right? talking about household

management. but home economicshome as a field, of a professional domain, where there are experts, creating curricula, is a turn of the century kind of profession. here again is -- that is not ristin christine efrederick, but who l somebody who looks a little bit like christine frederick. it takes on a more expert driven advice tone in the period.advic this is christine frederick. home management.y note the titles that she uses household engineer and professional consultant. so one question we might pose here, i think it's clear how h much frederick is indebted to pun someone like taylor, right? but how much has changed in the envisioning of the household, envisi sisters in the 1860s, right, to o this moment? what's changed and what's remained the ]xlsame?

never nothing is ever totally a break from the past. rebecca? >> thist idea of the household -- make it as efficient possible.effi saving timeci in every way and everything is planned out. but at the very end, i was very he interested when she said, this t thi is why this is so important and women are becoming mothers to go join the work force. that's silly because housekeeping is so important. that reminded me a lot of the b beacher sisters. >> yes. ta >> it was kind of her taking these ideas but keeping the househ household keepingol intact. >> very nice.nice the end result is the same. the rationale for why you do it maybe is changing. good. katy? were you going to say something? str >> i was strucku by the contrast between the beacher sisters, putting so much emphasis on raising children and more or less and family and those kinds of things. and christine frederick is all about, like how to do -- like y.

it's very focused on these, like, duties of the household but when she mentions raising children, it's how to keep her children from getting in the waychores of her chores. >> it seemed like they're almost like keeping her from cooking cooki and doing that stuff. >> yes. right. interfering with her well-planned day. she refersll to-p them interestingly the as the boy and the baby. they're just these stock characters, right? that she's able to have the baby baby play while she's doing her hand stitching and so forth. fo she refers to them as almost -- yeah, very unidealized ways. >> i was impressed that her ed schedule included the children, hat sh so shee specifically had like an a hour or two every day to just hem sit and play with them, or watch them play while she did do in something else. but she incorporated them into

her schedule, and it8 me of the beacher sisters. them an example from an early age of ea systematic living. >> yeah, rlyeah. makes you realize that this is a i long development actually, ly thinking very consciously vely a reflectively about how the . household run.un it doesn't run on its own.o and there might be ways to to improve it. now, the beacher sisters had a more kind of spiritual notion of it.chri thanst christine frederick.you you can see them sort of talking to each other across time. yeah matthew?tman >> this is just the d:6iojry of housework, and wanting to make make it worthwhile, i guess, like i the -- i could see it would get bo kind of boring afterri a while, so you wanted to apply science to e it it, make it feel like you're doing something -- i'm not an saying housework is not an doing important thing to be doing.eing i can see it would be an they unfulfilling thing to a lot of

women. >> i think sheg uses the word drudgeify, and drudgery.have. some of this work is just tedious work right?right? so why not put all this energy into speeding i tt up, cutting out some steps, right? if the dishes can be on the drain board wash them with hot water, they'll just air dry. you don't need to wipe them down with a cloth of questionable cleanliness. right there,cl there are ways to plea system systemize. also, it gets you morebu time to you do other things, right? notice also in her schedule there's an every other week club date.ate. she's got these kind of social socia and more leisure activities a built into the schedule as well. think about this in terms of this emerging consumer and and leisure culture that we've tha talked about in terms of

living. >> i like the beacher sisters. she makes it clear that this household sphere is for women only. like all of these tasks and schedules are all""h about, like wo the woman and the mother. and in that way, it's similar to the simil beacher sisters. >> yeah. >> and like rebecca was saying like in that last paragraph, she says says basically the right place for the women is in the home and that's all. but but on the flip side, by using cienti thisfi scientific analysis and ing fo calling for standardization and conservation of energy, all this stuff, she kind of equates the women's sphere of the household n's sp as like a similar task and job of importance as things done outside the home. >> yeah. right. so the beacher sisters state that, right?at, that women's role takes as much management skill as a world leader. but actually, frederick is just

doing it, right?. notice what she borrows, right, t from the factory?ory. she talks about, well, men in the factories do r#(wsthis. i'm also using this index card system on my wall. i borrowed this from my husband right? so there's this kind of lelism parallelism that she's sketching, which may be enough be e to keep women in the home to feel that their work is as professional, right asjcñ ientif scientificic as requiring of scientific attention and care. yeah? >> i think it's interesting but maybe more subtle contrast between the two is maybe how deal they deal with housekeepers or mothers of different classes. because in beacher, it was if you were f of greater means that you should be more philanthropic, and set up homes up for children, and use your money in terms of philanthropy. but in frederick she uses the

efficiency as an equalizer. she on page 41 she said a strong as mo reason is are tool is more omen c efficient anmethods.um when someone can afford a vacuum motor o cleaner or other excellent tool,f hundreds of thousands of women cannot. but any one of those thousands of women can reduce the drudgerydrunl of their work by better planning, more intelligent systemizing, and experiment with their work and how they do it. beacher was how to spend your your e extra money, this is how you canou hav appear as though you have the ey same amount of money, or the andard same amount ofiz house keeping standards. >> and gain theou rewards c of rewards science, no matter what your class. that's exactly right. it's a very taylor-esque argument, right? this is going to help everybody,out by cutting out the waste edgery cutting the. drudgery, maybe ct. getting to a final, higher quality of housekeeping.

there's instances where you feel you're almost reaching absurdity ha of the schedule. which at the time was not think abou of ing of the work.tech not just aboutni work and technical efficiency. >> i thought it was interesting that she singles out herself as herse a suburban housewife. beforehand we talked about what ike it's like for a woman in the city. but this is what suburban life is like, once you move out of the city. a it's like a big contrast in her schedule versus anything that carrie's sister would have encountered just because of cation a location. and the development of suburbs as these -- and she talks about how anyone who lives in the s suburbs knows that you can have one anyone drop in on you and the social aspects of it.it. >> good.an

you know with a text like this,ike you do want to be really alert to those kind of social clues. she says things like, of coursecourse i could use the telephone.ephone or i could call the driver. so you get a sense of her socialg c(t&háhp &hc% class. also these kind of -- the infrastructure around her her o what's makingf this household run. run. we learn even though she's perfected this laundering system, that someone else comes some in toon do the laundry. so this a household that is not vidual just the elm realm of the woman. i want to point to this specific place. it's it's on page 100, the last page of this excerpt. exce we do sense what is motivating frederick beyond the beauty of science.rede a couple of you referred to it but let's just look at it. these same women, she's talking th about -- oh right the women who say, i don't want to run my n o home like an office or a it

factory, i want it to be a home.d this dissidence of a home being a factory.í @ but these same women and hosts sts of of others are continually ut ho talking about home drudgery.n doing if they had been doing all theseuries home tasksin all these centuries in such a beautiful poetic way, what is it that women are s fleeing from household professions and into outside n work? why are they eating del i ka re tess enmeals, and assuming the burdens of motherhood? that's maybe the vision of urbanister woman, of sister carrie. lazily refusing. you heard teddy roosevelt, not taking up the mantle of sters motorhood and duty. there is both the need for persuasive case, and the rewards of family itself or the spirit are not enough to keep women in women the home. the they have to be persuaded, right? this is a complex task. it's a scientific task.ask. it's one very equal, right, of he

the manager in the factory. tayl like c÷ctaylor, you sense christinefreder frederick making an overt case wa for a break from old ways of t? doing things. a break from the past tradition. think aboutbo litman, the only loyalty should be to going forward, right? this all marks the modernist sort of thinkers, right? they're after the new, the novel, the better way to do things. that had been done from as they t put it time immemorial. let me just show you really quickly, these are a couple of of the illustrations that actually appeared in frederick's book,┘ f1 o the wellch ordered kitchen. this one -- it always makes me eed think i need to go back into my kitche own kitchen and redesign right? everything, right? on the right or the left. ht you see those pathways.

think of time motion studies, right? this is the badly ground kitchen gro equipment. so that youup walk -- this messy the zigzag from the serving table to the kitchen cabinet to the and so forth. here's thegr efficient grouping.e preparing route is "a," clearing ri route is "b." you get the clean motion of how is work is supposed to be done. all right. let's talk about maybe an even more radical5 john b. watson actually began his graduate education in philosophy. with none other than john 1d%dewey.the another link to our other thinkers in the course. he almost invents the field of behaviorist psychology. a

he looksnd at how animals were conditioned by stimulus response and moves on to people. and of course infants as we see here. he'll teach at johns hopkins for a time. that's of course, modern kind of emblem of the modern avgof the university. but will actually be b forced out due to his divorce which was brought on by an affair by his c co-author here one of his students. so not everything has [kbñchanged right? heun could lose his university position for his divorce his affair. he will become a popular expert a as well as a scientific expert on child rearing. but eventually also advertising. we might think about the links ke between stimulus response hese experiments with children, and the burgeoning field of advertising, like getting a consumer like carrie to respond to a dress, a hat, so forth. this is a psychological care of infant and child.

new psychology in a new century. this is number 28. there are others today. is he is, as i said a simplifier more like taylor than like freud.erof freud had posited a darwinian thin battle within the person, in thehe mind mind between the conscious and subconscious. a mind that was always at war with itself.hat f. watson will have a very different view.y and a different view from his mentor duey mentor dewey in conscious ways.le he said all we have to go on is the way people behave and what they do. and the psychological insight and action. he called freudism voodooism, and will be a leader of the behav behaviorism. so watch and study behavior.

stimulus response with rats or with with children is the way that en is yothu build behavior. you use !l rewards and punishments. and you can thereby build in instincts in children and habits. you can internalize things like a schedule. li again, think about christine frederick and her schedule her sc babies. if you feed them atbaby the same time every day, that's what time they'll get hungry every day. if you put them down to sleep at the same time every day they'llsome be ready for bed the same time every day. very popular at the time. you can sense the radicalism the shock of a piece of wrqk)(h @r(t&háhp &hc% like this, right? okay. if we make the argument, make the case that all cultures wh inventy psychologies why this psychology now? what is it about watson's visionision of child rearing that is of this time? re

and just a few photographs. this is anthis experiment -- the foets are really grainy#?5]p so i apologize. this is watson doing an fant. experiment on the strength and grip of the infant. the infant is holding on to that bar there. and some of the still shots that appear in his book before conditioning the child with a white rat. these were little albert s. experiments. he did a whole host of experiments with this one particular child and filmed them. here you see albert, a kind of before-and-after reaction. once he's been sensitized to the furry rabbit, the creature. katy, you were going to say something? >> the scientific method to child rearing, just like it like t would applyhe to the factory or frederick applying it to housework, like he's applying it to how you raise a child and d

how people become scared of things things, or things like that? >> yeah. a kind of blank slate here that he's working with. matthew? >> what struck me about this, isostile how hostile he seemed to be at things, like mothers in general.ong wi on page> severe and more hostile to tradition than any of our other writers. nobody has facts. nobody knows how to be a proper parent. the world we be better off if we would stop having children for 20 years, except for those reared for experimental purposes. and then start again with the

facts. >> i think what i found interesting was going along with this idea we have a field with a blank slate where we can start over is that through the other readings and through the readings for this section, we learned that with this industrialization, it is seen as i guess there's this under arch arching in the back of everyone's mind of can we have this perfect society? can we -- >>what struck me was he says -- how the work shows that all of the fears are acquired. it kind of gave me the idea of how at this time we're wondering, can we erase fear can we live in a perfect society? by looking at these babies, can we find the way to raise perfect human. >> yes. right. it is a utopian kind of thinking, right? if you simply get children early chi

enough, and yould have all this laboratory data gathered that we wipe out fear. wipe we wipe out certain kinds of things that we thought were deeplar to instincts, or particular to particular people, right? this is what going -- envisioning human nature as a kind of blank slate leads you, perhaps. a yeah? >> he talks here about the entire time like parents, but t only talks about the mother, like nowhere in this does he mention the father.a fa but he keeps using like parents and parenthood. and i was waiting for where is the dad? >> it's an interesting -- that might capture something about what's new and what's old, t w right? the invocation of parenting meaning mother. in his experience in the 1920s, who was doing the parenting? it was the mothers almost in ever every instance, right? yet he uses this more almost as an objective scientific term parent parenthood to talk about what he me means.anness

this kind of co-existing with the kind of habit and tradition, to think of the parent as the mother. yeah, libby? >> going back to matthew's thought, i thought it was ent, i interesting how much h te disdainse the human instinct in favor of inct i hisn scientific method especially like the female human instinct. on 15, when he's talking about oman when the one realizes she's responsible for raising her child, he's basic like -- she - would rather leave this burden bu anywhererd else, upon heredity. and like he's saying that the mother doesn't want instinctively to take on this burden. and teach he r child how to be the perfect child, or whatever. but she finally comes to accept omes t ito eventually. >> yeah.>> think back, this brings us really neatly in some ways back to litman. the friendly comfortable ing of feeling of believing that you b areel bigger than you are, more mo

important than you are in the scheme of things. this is the critique of religion, right? this comfort of heredity for not taking responsibility for your for own active role in the world. role i and that fits watson especially because the kind of action simple enough, that creates something as deep as fear is the pairing of furry rabbit withh a a hammering sound. which he said is one of the only things that actually instinctively, like everybody recoils from. you if you pair those you create the fear of the animal, and then you create a whole life-long deep fear of anything furry. even santa claus he says.ys. matthew? >> what i found interesting is not just in this piece, but all he the ones that we read, that even though they seem progressive, they all seem to be staked in social social tradition. >> good. bit >> this might be a little bit of but in a stretch, but in this piece we just came out of the roaring

'20s, and there's a huge desire liv8[ about what they wanted. what he talks about how if you give f you too much affection to your your child, they will be spoiled. i think that's why this was clung on so tightly because this everyone saw what happened to this generation of kids that lived through the '20s, and ay wanted materials.. so they wanted to get away with pro this. of it's still trying to keep the but woman in the home and not very not v socially progressive still. >> so using these progressive sive techniques to keep things maybe closer to where they were. w i mean that's a real te interesting tension. d it does run through these pieces, even maybe in watson. who seems the most, as you to mentioned, hostile to ip hernherited traditions. >> with frederick, she assumes -- that everyone who's reading has a house, or with watson he assumes that these children willdren be born w into good families who

will use the best methods to raise their kids. on page 31 he's talking about the experiment on the childhood h at omhome. says, he said here's a beautiful 2 1/2-year-old child tenderly nurtured in one of our best s. american homes. it kind ofit struck me as almost putt idealistic, where we're putting alle this effort into society and systemizing everything.erything but there b are still these peoplethese in thepe background who have no no access to this or no way of y of achieving it. >> yeah. yeah. and also there are still accidents -- unless you train all dogs not to bark at babies, that some of this is going to elude the control of the - systemitizer in the end.t there's more to say about watson, but we see the link between some of the tensions coming to the fore in the pieces, will come back to some of the tensions we didn't talk about overtly, but might be

embedded in litman's term about science being the discipline of democracy. the if experts are the answer, expert run society what happens to democracyto to those people who are not the experts, in the tories factories, or the readers of christine frederick, or the s infants raised in laboratories, is this theis vision of democracy racy that the united states was poised to adopt. so we'll come back to some of we wil the critics of you know as borne would say, the technique rather than the substance. i just want to as we close to think about all of these readings, what they do. what all these readings do to ictori victorian ideaans about individualism, about human nature character, labor and r, the dignity of labor. separate spheres, right men and women's roles.

and most importantly, seemingly natural handed-down ideas, whether rule of thumb or otherwise.this this break from tradition is incomplete, as we've noticed.ed. but it certainly seems like something new on the horizon. and we'll pick up with new ideas about race, and racial identity thursd in the next class.ok thank you for a great discussionea.i have i have papers for a couple people up here. ple u you've been watching a ing special presentation of our our lectures in history series. we've got more every saturday at 8:00 p.m. and midnight eastern.rn. join students in the classroom to hear lectures on campuses across the country on topics ranging from the american revolution a to the 9/11 terrorist at attacks. "lectures in history" every saturday atay 8:00 p.m. and mi midnight eastern here on "american history tv." we want to tell you about some of our other american history programs. so

joins us every saturday at 4:00 p.m. eastern for a look at the "history bookshelf." tune in as the best history torit writers ofer thes past decade talk about their books. again, that's "history bookshelf" every saturday at he 4:00 p.m. eastern here on "american history tv" on 3. c-span3. follow us on twitter at c-span history, connect with us on facebook, where you can leave comments and check out our upcoming programs at our website c-span.org/history. new year's day on the c-span networks. here are some ofks, our featured programs. 10:00 a.m. eastern, the m. washington ideas forum.ington energy conservation with david crane.dea business magnate t. boone e, pickens. and inventor dean cayman. at 4:00 p.m. eastern, the bro brooklynok historical society

holds a conversation on race. then at 8:00 p.m. eastern from fro them explorer's club, apollo 7 astronaut walt cunningham on the first manned space flight.ar's d new year's day on c-span2, just be before noon eastern hector tavarious on the 33 men buried in a chilean mine. at 3:00 p.m. eastern, on the life of nelson rockefeller. and former investigative correspondent for cbs news cheryl at kison on the obama porting administration. new year's day on "american history tv" onst c-span3, at 10:00 10: a.m. eastern juanita abernathy on the role of women in the civil rights movement. at 4:00 p.m. college professor at ben ja man carp on the link between alcohol and politics in pre-revolutionary new york city. at 8:00 p.m. cartoonist patrick olivan draws ten presidential

characters, as they discuss the presidents and their memorable emorab qualities.le new year's day on the c-span pan networks for our complete orks schedule, go to c-span.org. "american history tv" traveled to thely breer of in congress' cloogy center in which washington, d.c.wa established in the year 2000. the center welcomes over 100 y john scholars every year to w pursue their research interests at one of the largest libraries.up ne we speak with one of their 2014 fellows next. joining >> joining us on "american history tv" assistant history professor at george mason orge university. this is your first day here at univer the library of congress. what brings you here?ess. >> i am a cloogy fellow this academic year. ac and i'm working on a research on a r project that i'm calling the ich is indians' capital city, which is a study of the sish you'll, sim

symbolic, indigenous history of the city.i'm i'm especially interested in ng at looking at the ways in which native people across the 19th he 19 and early 20th centuries claimed and reclaimed spaces within the city.ci >> can you explain what you mean by those terms, claimed and reclaimed? >> yeah.>> yea well, so there's a -- there's obviously a deep and rich s indigenous history in the xhes chesapeake and potomac region. it sits on native homelands.nds. so when i'm thinking about reclaiming i was thinking about reclaiming homeland territory essentially.lly. however, throughout the 19th and 20th a centuries as washington ngton became the federal city, native diplomats, delegates from communities across the country as well as residents native people who came here to live to

maybe to work as lobbyists even, claimed spaces within the city as their own and marked them as indigenous. in ar number of different ways.s i think this is especially t important, because it does a a couple of different things. in in terms of thinking about urban history, it complicates our story.y, i i thought for a long time that the ways we conceptualize native history and urban history is istory separate. native history is going on and then at some point it stops and then there's a gap, and then urban history starts. and there's no sort of meeting point between the two. in reality, i think we understand that that's not really accurate.ac but that's kind of what our popular culture even our academic studies has kind of suggested. in washington, in particular i in think this is a really importanttant

story, or set of stories, because native people had a significant role in shaping the city. it's important to remember that that washington was a local place before it was a national capital. it had to learn how to become national, how to think of itself as a national city.city. it also became global at some point, too. and native people, and the native presence helped shape pr that process as well, that o process of becoming. >> what part of the 19th centurybout w are wehe talking about, when we talk about native american influence in washington? >> well if we think about the ink actual native population in the city, there are ebbs and flows. at particular moments, in the time period surrounding the removal policies of the 1830s, s when large numbers of cherokee and other southeastern tribal nations were coming to the city, there were very large numbers of native people here.

again in the .1850s and 1870s, hese these were all time periods whenn there were large numbers of native people in the city.be in terms of my work though, i want want to span the entire 19th century from the very beginnings of of the city as the federal city. and even come up into and through the 20th century. one of the things that i'm going g to beo doing here at the library s is thinking how to book-end the project. ta there's a wealth of great material, but finding a way to present it in a coherent fashion with logical beginning and ending points is going to be goin something that i need to grapple be with a little bit. >> how did the presence of native americans change washington? are therewa remnants of their presence today? >> yeah. that's a really good question.ood one of are the things that i want to focus on in particular in in this project is the -- sort

of the tension between the commemorative an d symbolic representations of native people, and the lived experiences of native people in the city.c so if we want to think about representations, the stories areries a written all over the walls in the capital building. the capital rotunda has the ea reliefsch over the doors ic representing indigenous history. there are paintings in the as rotunda as well. in the architecture on the arch outside of theit building there's esenta representations of native people there. in other federal buildings across the city,ldin but also in other parts of the city as well, as i'm really interested in a n a bridge that i hope we can talk about called the q street bridge bridge, or the buffalo bridge or

the dunbarton bridge that has indian busts adorning each side of the bridge, as well as buffalo along the top. so the visual representations an and the symbolic representations are all over the place. the are throughout the 19th century, as i said, there were dozens and s sometimes hundreds of native delegates, residents and visitors in the city at any given moment. what's really interesting to me moment is the tension between the stories that are being told on the wall, which is one of a uest t conquestha that was nearly completed, a conquering of the west manifest destiny, the y, vanishing indian, very prominent 9th century idea that native people would soon cease to exist as a distinct ethnic group within the national fabric. this is the story that's on the walls. but non-native washingtonians, white washingtonians are running

into native people all around nativ the city and the streets, in the halls of the federal buildings, in taverns in theaters, even in the cemeteries. there were 24, at least, native delegates who died here and are bu buried in the congressional cemetery. >> what kind of an influence did the native american delegates have? who are they, why were they here, how did they interact with the official washington? >> yeahth well so the delegates really sort of -- well, okay. there were very well-known diplomats, so people like red cloud, red jacket kia cook, kicking bear these were people -- john ross, peter pitchland, who was a choctaw leader who wrote once he felt more at home in washington, d.c., than anywhere else. and ended up living here for a significant part of his life.

eli parker who became the first native american commissioner of the office of indian affairs. of th obviously lived in the city.dian but had been coming for, you know, a decade or more prior to that. these delegations sometimes were very big. so it wouldn't just be red cloud, but it would be red cloud and several other lakota men and women who would make the trip.ten oftentimes, or most often these trips were at the request of theue office of indian affairs.st indian agents in the field might write and suggest the delegationon would would help to facilitate a treaty or an agreement. other times the visits were designed to intimidate, to bringintim native people from the west into west the city to impress upon them the wealth and the might of the united states.the vi the visits around the city, the tours they would take always e would include the visits to the t

armory and the navy yard and a of can demonstration of cannons and things like that. the visits also included meetings with legislators, senators, congressmen. usually, at least one or two ceremonial visits to the white house. and so the work of the delegations centered around diplomacy. but washington becamedi more than that for native people.peo there are also sort of quote ote un unquote, unofficial delegations. native leaders and others would come to the city of their own accord seeking an audience with legislators or the office of the o indianff affairs, to visit the the city, almost as a tourist destination. so it came to mean, when i call c it the indians' capital city it came to mean a lot of different things. >> so in your memind, do those delegates, are they claiming space in washington, just by

their presence?r >> so the presence is important.nt in terms of. rethinking the literature, the historical literature on the city itself that's kind of -- this is kind of the salvage part of the the project. reclaiming that history of a native presence. i have suggested in some of the of early work that i've done that this was an enormative experience for many native some of leaders. some of thein writing that exists on a native presence in resenc washington sort of focuses on how how it may have been an alien lien place. it may have seemed overwhelming o to native visitors. that would have been true of any rural visitor in 19th century washington -- or in the 19th century united states, coming for the first time to me in wa washington. it would have seemed overwhelming.it so the presence itself is

important. but there are all these amazing stories about how native people actively claimed space.ace. there was, for example, a portrait artist named charles bird king, who painted portraits of indian delegates for about a 20-year period in early 19th century, 1820s to 1840s. charles bird king painted these amazing portraits of thomas mckinney, commissioner of indiany affairs at the time used federal funds to purchase these portraits, and adorn them along nd the wall of the office of indian affairs. it became known ass the indian of t portrait gallery, the indian gallery. guidebooks in the 9th century tour guidebooks for the city indi always noted that the office of indian affairs was an important destination for tourists because they could see these paintings.tings and perhaps this was one of the most interesting spaces in the city. what i find most interesting

about the portrait gallery, tha though, is as native delegates became aware, as word spread sprea about thed portraits more and more more native people requested to be added to it. it there's a story about an 1828 ho chung at the time, at the time called winnebago, a ho chunk ch group who went to visit the galler portrait gallery andy. they were looking for members of the community who had visited the city before and became very desirous to have their own ve portraits made. the federal government at at various times didn't really want to spend money on these portraits. and this was one of those th moments. there's this lengthy . correspondence between thomas nce be mckinney the commissioner of indian affairs, and the secretary of war about whether or not they could find money to fi do this,nd because the ho chunk and wo men and womenme wanted their portraits made. it meant something to them to be added to the portrait gallery. they offered to sell some of the some o things that they brought with

them to washington to raise their own money. or if they couldn't do that t, they wanted to just add those thin things, theirgs clothing, their r weapons and ceremonial regalia and other things to the gallery just so there's something representing them on the wall. i thought a lot about what this st hav must have meant to these men and women, when they went back west. they talked about how ultimately they were able to have their portraits made, and how their ow the images were on the wall in the office of indian affairs. so it meant something.hing. so seeing the portraits meant something. it was a way to connect across time with members of one's 's community who had visited the city before, and had similar experiences. so there's a sense of connectionre. across time there. but to me, i look at that as a way to market that wall. the native men and women were portrayed with sort of accoutrements of prestige.

feathers, peace medals ribbonsibbons and things that denoted their the position in their communities. so that was important. but more importantly, i think, it was a way to mark the wall.wal in the chapter i'm writing about this, i'm referring to it as indigenous tagging. like graffiti. it's the same thing to me. red jacket having his portrait on the wall is almost like scrawling red jacket was here in 1828. the interesting juxtaposition if we fast forward about 150 years ast fo to the american indian movement ovemen andt the occupation of the bureau of indian affairs in the 1970s, one of the most dramatic things n the that they19 did during that occupation besides destroying documents or reclaiming documents, was the spray paint graffiti all over the walls of the office . sending messages, and again, g claiming those walls claiming the that space within the office of acros

indian affairs as an indigenous space. >> the buffalo>> bridge you mentioned, was that another example of claiming space? >> the buffalo bridge to me is an an example of how washington, d.c., is itself, the city, is a multi-layered urban archive of r indigenous history. there's so there's this bridge that exists that connects q street in georgetown with q street kind bord of bordering dupont circle. georgetown existed prior to washington. i think 1751 is when it was founded. so decades before washington was technically created. there was a proposal to connect the two. of course, rock creek and the al to rock creek gorge separates them geographically.co build

so they built a bridge. q street was the location selected for the bridge. there are a couple of issues, q q street in washington, and q street in georgetown are about 185 feet apart. so the bridge -- like -- north-south. so the bridge would have to be curved.e br and secondly q street ended in the historic dunbarton mansion, which had to be lifted up and moved about 100 feet in order to build the bridge. there was question about whether or not there should be a bridge,there' why not just fill in the rock creek gorge with rocks and other stuff. which was a really bad idea. ultimately they didn't do it. so they got an architect named glen brown at the turn of the he 20 20th century to design this esign bridge. ands he used trendy design elements at the time.time.

this was the time of the city beautiful movement.mov so the bridge rather than being a simple utilitarian structure, d it's this grand bridge with the neo classical arches, it looks like roman auk we ducts.tiful it was part of the city autifu beautiful movement. the city beautiful movement was popularized during the world's in fair in chicago. th the other main sort of aesthetic of the world's fair was a ntic o romanticization of thef frontier. was t this was the closing of the frontier. there's a romanticization going on of the american frontier.ican so glen brown wanted the bridge, not only to look like part of the cityci beautiful aesthetic, but also to have some nostalgia out a about a bygone american past.t. so they put four gigantic o alon buffalo along the top of the idge a bridge and thennd decided to carve into each side of the bridge 28

indian busts. they used what they thought was thoug aht generic plains indian head. and so if you run or drive underneath the bridge today you'll see these heads jutting out with kind of a prominent features, and a war bonnet or hea head dddress.it's t it's all the same one, just replicated on each side of the bridge. this ihiss really interesting to think about at the turn of the urn 20th century, that this is the the b ideari that the bridge architect is using, imagining this bridge in washington.e but it gets more interesting. if we actually think about what those images were. the busts that he modeled the indian head carves on, was li actually a life mask of a real man. ofman, a man named kicking bear who m was a lakota leader, who helps to bring the ghost dance to the plains. which ultimately led to wounded knee.nsknee so not only was this a native

man, but this was a native man ive who fought the united states, militarily and spiritually on the plains.n in the 1890s, he came to washington to meet with ith officials in the office of indian affairs and so he also fought the united states in the he fou united stateghs colonialism diplomatically in the city.is bridg so we've got this bridge with the architectural design des elements. it kind of seems like they're oating free-floating images of nostalgia, but they actually lly commemorate this anti-colonial leader who fought the united states militarily, spiritually and diplomatically. here's where it gets even more interesting to me.y. in the 1890s, there's also an ologist archaeologist, w.h. holmes, working in the city. he ultimately became one of the directors of the national museum, or smithsonian. dug at one point he dug up connecticut avenue. he led a significant excavation of the dunbarton heights just ere

th north of where the bridge was was built. what he found was that the fou dunbarton heights was a significant stone quarry site for chesapeake and for the indigenous peels s peoples of this region. this bridge using early 20th century architect design and technology, and intrinsic design elements, that actually commemorates an anti-colonial leader who fought with the united states and it's been eople significant the to the native people in this region for eones.his when i think about this projectright the concepts of ancient and modern architecture are present there. >> so you bring a deep knowledge of the native american presence

in washington, d.c. now that you're at the library of congress, what questions do you want to answer here? how do you see your research unfolding? >> you mentioned that this is my first day officially as a center fellow, i'm really great excited about the p opportunity, and it's a great place to work. in particular, i'm interested inthe the papers of individual statesmen that arein in the di manuscript division people like john haige or 'tfíñstewart or others, these men wrote about their interactions with the al nature eive people in the city. so there's really good material hat there. another body of sources that i think is crucial to this project is the collection of tourist guide books and customs manuals from the 19th and early 20th century. 2 my preliminary search for these libr

turned up over 140 in the library. now obviously some of these are reprints, but there's a lot here.thes soe these tourist guide books were written in the 19th century for people coming to visit washington and essentially ntiall there's, you knowy a short section on all of the different ra federal buildings some of the hborho different neighborhoods and things like that. but they also contain amazing anecdotes, stories about -- to kind of give the potential tourist or the tourist a flavor of the city a lot of these anecdotes talk about nature ty people. they talk about nature ty people in the capitol rotunda in the murals and paintings, they talk about the different boarding houses around the city that o native people stayed. there was a -- that was known across the city as indian headquarters because they dele catered primarily to native delegations.

so those guide books are an incredibly useful source. beyond that these customs manuals were written by white women, elite white women in the 19 19th century. th this is one of the things that i wasn't expecting to find when i started to look at some of thesehem. and why i'm so excited to look at more of them. so these were kind of designed as primers to the social scene in washington for the wives of incoming senators and congressmen and others washington in the 189th century and even today wasn't like new york or even new orleans where e is o there's sort of old money and sort of established social circles. there's a lot of flux, people were coming in and out. so the women, the wives of thesetime statesmen wouldn't have a long time to get adjusted, so this was kind of a textbook a primer

to get ready for it. but again reading through men these, these women were writing about natureive men around the city. and the thing that i found most fascinating was the ways in which they were writing about these mention in erotic sized ways. it sort of strategy straddles the line. elite white women in the 19th sidere century were sort ofd considered a paragons of white virtue, so their sexuality was often closely policed. so i was kind of shocked to see them writing about these

nonwhite men in sort of these eroticized fantasies.i don't i've been thinking a lot about why that might be. again, washington was kind of a limited space. i doubt that these women could way in t have so freely and openly about these men in the west, in the reaten 19th century, it would have beencause more threatening. a but because there was a th perception, even at the timeat that there wasn't a huge native presence in the city, or that it any native presencey in the city was a transient, temporary al presence, i thinklo allowed this to be more okay. it was less an affront to any sort of racial order. >> and when your work here is concluded, what do you hope to th the go with your findings? >> so yeah, this is a book project, ii published my first

book with the university of rth ca north carolina press. and i'm hoping to work with the press again on this book.the there's an amazing visual element to this project as well. and also a part of the project that's about movement, about a movement of people. and so in addition to a kind of standard monograph that will rs. focus -- the city itself will becharacte a main character really it's a place study, it's about a place.but but that movement the journey is also an important part of the story. and really kindf of allows me to to think about a digital humanities project, a mapping project where these journeys can be animated and represented digitally. so often times the delegates

would leave their home communities in the west and visit several cities along the way. so so they might come to st. louis and that would be their sort of their point of departure, but e. then they would go from there toinnati cincinnati and then from urgh cincinnati to pittsburgh or from there to new york or boston and then baltimore and then washington, d.c. and all along the way, they were visiting cities, the newspapers were writing about their presence, they were having different kinds of experiences that story is very little -- very obscured, i guess would be a way to describe it. and then the movement within the city. so native delegates would sometimes stay here for weeks or even months while congress was in session, so they were viz skitd visiting theaters and taverns and they were going to other parts of the city. in we think of native people

especially in the 19th century d as being static. this is a dynamic story. i will be aebl to tell both sides of the story in different f way ways. >> thank you for joining us on american history tv. >> thank you. with live coverage of the u.s. house on cspan and the most senate on cspan rel 2, here on cspan 3 we complement that coverage by showing you different events. six unique series, the civil war's 150th anniversary, visiting battlefields and key events discovering what artifacts reveal about america's with past. history bookshelf with the best known american history writers, polici the presidency looking at the policies and legacies of our

commanders in chief. d and top college professors devilling into america's past, cspan 3, created by the cable tv industry and fundinged by your local cable or satellite provider. during this holiday season, we're showing you american history programs, today we're focusinging on lectures in history. next university of michigan professor martha jones talks about how female slayves were treated under the law at the time. next, university of michigan professor martha jones talks about the court case of creela a female slave who killed her

owner after numerous sexual assaults. she looks at the involvement of her fellow slaves and her owner's white neighbors in her court case this is about an hour and 20 minutes. today we're going to continue the discussion that we began a couple of weeks ago talking about the history of slavery, and in particular the experiences of enslaved women. we have already had a chance to look at the case of harriet jacobs, one of the best remembered of the slave narratives. there jacobs introduced us if you will to that dimension slavery that is especially vilified and exemplified by slave women and that is -- that

of celia. we have also looked at the wpa narratives and one of the things we noticed about those narratives is you'll recall was the extent to which some issues including sexual violence, violence generally but sexual violence in particular was rather muted in the slave narratives. and so here we have an opportunity with the celia case to take another at this question to try and see this dimension of slavery through the experiencing of celia. so why do i say try to see this dimension of slavery? well as you all have already begun to see in your readings for today, there are many ways in which the record, the evidence upon which we rely to discover explore and understand the case of celia is a challenging record to make use of.

and so part of our work today will be to talk about the evidence in the celia case, how it is that we recover from what is in essence the record of a trial, a rather fragmentary carefully but idiosyncratically assembled group of testimony written and oral arguments of lawyers, conclusions of judges, that mixed with a little bit of newspaper reportage, some demographic material, like census returns, how we take this fragmentary evidence and try to think in -- but also about how we have to think critically about the evidence we use, what it can can tell us and perhaps what it can tell us perhaps about celia's story. you all have read melton mc mcmorin's book.

but i want to sketch out for you the terms of that narrative for the purposes of our discussion today and again this comes as a kind of fragmentary narrative one that is very driven by the court record, by the legal artifacts in this case. the first thing we know is that there's very little for us to say about celia's young life. that we don't need her in a formal sense in the historical record until she's how old do you remember how old she is when she comes into this story, anybody? 14 years old. so she's 14 yearsal old when she first appears to us. she is as we come to understand a young enslaved woman in central missouri and she is purchased by robert knewsome a small farmer in the county of

calloway, the town of fulton in missouri. he travels to adrian, he purchases celia and from the very moment of that encounter almost from the very moment of that encounter, our story is framed because we learn that celia is very soon sexual assaulted by newsom even in the journey back to fulton, but certainly very quickly after they arrive at his farm. what is this place to which celia has come in we know that newsom is a recent widower, in his household are his children who are now adults, his daughters as well as a grandson, coffee wayne scott newsom is a small farmer this is not a plantation setting this is not a large scale enterprise at

most in 1850, he owned five enslaved people in addition to celia by 1860 he will own just celia and one other enslaved person a man named george who we'll meet later. so he is a small slave holder, typical of central missouri, he makes his way as a subsistence farmer growing crops and food stuffs for his family but also raising livestock. there's some suggestion in the evidence that he's will a ees's also a producer of whisky, but celia arrives not to do agricultural work, not to do farm labor, but she comes to do some household domestic labor within this house, but part of what we know is that over the next five years, she will become regularly and frequently the target of newsom's sexual assaults. newsom will build a small cabin

for celia, 60 paces from his home, far away but not too far away as we learn for him to visit regularly. she will come to live there in these years herself, with then one and then another child that she will bear likely the children of newsom himself children we come to know as vine and as jane, later on in the story and celia, by 1855 is again pregnant for the third time. as the record explains celia tells people she's sick she's pregnant again whether sick is a metaphor for pregnancy or in fact she's having a difficult pregnancy, it's clear that celia does not want to abide or to accommodate or to acquiesce again going forward to newsom's sexual advances.

the first thing she appears to do is to speak to newsom's daughters. she asks the women in this household to intervene on her behalf. to in some way speak to their father and to see if he won't desist from assaulting her, but they have no success it seems. and then celia has her own confrontation with newsom and here, for our purposes, the core of the story. she seems to advice him, don't come to see me, i will not accommodate your advances, i don't want to have sexual relations with you, i will not have sexual relations with you, still on a june night in 1855 newsom will come those 50 steps from his parlor to from his cabin.

he will speak to her, and approach her to what is celia's mind the suggestion that he will not sexual assault her and we know that celia defends herself. she picks up a stick, a club, it's variously described and she strikes newsom once, again and perhaps many times until he falls, he is unconscious and dead in her cabin. what do you do if you're celia? what do you do? part of what we know is that when she retells her story for a while she e's stunned, she hasn't anticipated, hasn't quite intended to kill newsom, she intended to protect herself and fend him off but now that he's dead the question becomes how should she deal with that fact. we know that she attempts to conceal the evidence of what's transpired. she will take newsom's body,

push it into the fireplace of her cabin she will stoke the fire, and over the next six hours, she will attempt to dispose of the evidence of what has transpired. so much so that by morning, we know that very little is left, some ashes, some bone fragments, but celia is confident enough that she has concealed her act that has morning breaks she continues about the ordinary routine of the household. she makes her way to the kitchen to begin to prepare breakfast for the newsom family. newsom's children awake, their father is missing and a search begins for newsom. it takes two major phases initially newsom's children search the farm itself, has he wandered off, has he had an

accident, but there's no sign of him. neighbors join the search and questioning begins, the interrogation, this informal but very important interrogation of people on the farm one of whom is newsom's grandson who relates that he has helped celia distribute the ashes from her fire along the path leading to the stable on the newsom farm. there is george, the enslaved man, owned by newsom. george relates -- we'll come back to his testimony, but relates that perhaps they want to search in the vicinity of celia's cabin. celia herself has we know progressively tells a story. initially she denies any understanding of what newsom's whereabouts, what might have happened to him. she then begins to piecemeal tell a story and we understand in a sense why that might have

been. the consequences for her act are grave, as we know. and she begins to tell a story first about having newsom having put his head through the window and having struck him and his disappearing into the night, but eventually, it seems, particularly under duress, that is under the threat that in fact she may be separated from her children celia reveals to these neighbors, local farmers who have come to investigate the whereabouts of newsom, she reveals to them out of the earshot of the newsom children, she reveals that she in fact struck newsom dead and then disposed of his body in the fireplace. we can follow to the story then as it makes its way through now a legal frame. there is an inquest.

these local neighbors who have been at the fore of the investigation, newsom's children and celia herself will all give testimony before a local grand jury leading to the indictment, the formal charging of celiaseal see -- retell their stories, with one exception, remember who does not testify at the all trial? who does not testify? celia herself does not testify at the trial. because pursuant to missouri law, as is typical in the united states in the mid 19th century no defendant is given the opportunity to testify at trial. a defendant in 19th century legal culture is deemed to be too self interested to give

testimony. celia herself does not testify, but many of the parties we have become familiar with do testify and they retell in a sense celia's story, celia's version of events. and one of the things that becomes clear at trial, while there is facts in dispute, and we'll come back to a couple of them, the core of celia's story is never in dispute. there never is a question about her relationship to newsom the long standing sexual abuse to which she's been subjected and even how with her third child, she has become sick and has tried to avoid and to fend off newsom's sexualed a ed aadvances even before striking him with the club. this story celia's own story is one that we see in parts adopted by the local farmers who have

investigated the case, by members of the newsom family themselves and ultimately by the court, this core narrative is one on which everyone comes to agree. celia is ultimately found guilty by a local jury, we'll come back to the jury dynamics in our discussion. she is sentenced to death by hanging. there's a curious interlude that i think we know too little about still, celia is secreted out of the jail and avoids the initial hanging date because she's been secreted out of jail and taken to a hiding place. who's responsible for that and how that comes about is one of the mysteries of celia's case. but we know that ultimately she's returned to the local jail, a new execution date is set, the state court of appeals

hears preliminarily the possibility of celia's appeal. celia's lawyers ask if the high court will stay or postpone her execution temporarily until there is a formal review of the legal proceedings in the trial court and the answer is no. the high court sees no legal merit, no likelihood that celia will prevail on her appeal, they permit her execution to go forward and on december 21st 1855, she's hanged in fulton, missouri. so i want to come back to you today to revisit this case through some of the themes that we have been developing over the course of the last weeks come back to celia as it's own story but also as a window into the experience of slave -- enslaved

women, the role of sexual assault in the context of slavery, but also to look at the ways in which law, the ways in which legal culture plays a critical role here in mid 1850s missouri. judges lawyers, grand jurys local jurors investigators witnesses, all playing a critical role in determining if you will, in framing how we might interpret celia's story. how we might come to conclude whether celia was justified, right, you remember the case turns and was celia entitled to assert self-defense when she acted to put off newsom, right? to resist his sexual assault

was she entitled to that sort of self-defense in the face of that imminent harm that newsom surely was going to force upon her as he had before or as an enslaved woman, was celia without recourse? not in life because we know in life she had recourse and she seized it but before the law, did she have recourse. so those are going to be our questions going forward today. so three sorts of questions. the first i want to use for us to come back to harriet jacobs, who we visited a couple of weeks ago, jacobs is of course perhaps the best remembered of enslaved women, she's so well remembered because she pens an extraordinary narrative, the book that we have come to know as incidents in the life of

harriet jacobs. we talked about incidents and we saw that as a form of testimony, like complicated testimony, filtered through jacobs' own concerns about her reputation and her standing as a free black woman when she publishes this narrative. filtered through anti-slavery politics, but we read you'll recall very carefully to try and discern the ways in which still through this narrative that jacobs -- the threat of sexual assault as part of enslaved women's lives. you remember in her story, dr. flint, the pseudonym for the owner of or the father of jacobs' owner. the way in which this man in his

household, in edenton north carolina, over the course of years, threatens, confronts, promises, almost promises, right, to ultimately have access to jacobs' body, to have sexual relations with her, she lives under this threat. it's so present in her life that we know in the broad strokes that she will ultimately secret herself away, a dramatic seven years in the attic of her grandmother's home until she's finally able to make her way north and to freedom. but how would we compare these two stories? jacobs on the one hand and celia on the other what sort of -- in what ways should we compare them? in what ways are these stories similar stories? for you and in what ways are

they contrasting stories. and just hands. yeah? >> the differences in the support systems that jacobs and celia had, that at least jacobs had her grandmother and her other family members and sort of was in this not so isolated area where her grandmother had the position in the community to protect her and she could appeal to her white lover to protect her and celia didn't have that she had george, maybe, but not as much of a support system. >> yeah. >> going off of that, celia was like the oldest one and she didn't really have the role model to look up to and she also had her kids to take care of. and the fact that she was so much more isolated in such a rural environment, she was kind

of all on her own. >> good. what about other folks? how would you compare these two women. on the left you have the title page from jacobs' book. and on the right, we have a justice of the peace's writing of celia's testimony. here, down on the right, you can see the x. other differences? >> to go along with that, there's also that harriet jacobs did do her memoir and celia

couldn't couldn't, that comes into play of whether she would have had a different outcome for herb trial or not. >> harriet jacobs obviously was written by herself and her story we kind of know through which she's told us. and celia is kind of what we know from the court cases and testimonies, which can be kind of questionable. >> yeah. so this is great. part of this question about literacy, we'll come back to this question of isolation, because i think literacy and isolation might be two ways in which we could think dramatically about the ways in which not only these stories unfold but our capacity to tell them and remember them are shaped. yeah jacobs is literate, even as she's an enslaved woman in north carolina, we remember this becomes part of the drama between her and dr. flint, precisely because he passes a

part of her terror, is to pass her notes in this. yeah yeah. >> i was just going to focus on a similarity between them. one thing i notice is they really didn't have anything to lose, except when it came to their children. jacobs, she wouldn't have stayed in that attic for that seven years if it wasn't for her looking out for the safety of her children. and for celia, it wasn't until the interrogator was threatening her children that she had to cave in. so i honestly believe that if they had not had children, they would have done anything to get out of the situation. >> very good, so we have two nodes of difference, and one important piece of similarity so we'll come back to that. to come back to the literacy question, we snowknow yay -- perhaps we would say, in her capacity to have a kind of critical

consciousness, whether it's her own ability to read the notes of dr. flint or to read the bible, and to develop a critical or a critique of slavery and the conditions under which she lives, jacobs is someone for whom literacy plays a key role in her lifetime and for us as historians we know that her literacy is of extraordinary consequence, because not only do we have her narrative of her life as a slave girl but we have her correspondence over several years so. we have a nuance for harriet jacobs that eludes us celia's case. even here in what's said to be her testimony or her confession.

we recognize that this text has come through some very complex channels before it arrives to us. celia narrates the story a justice of the peace listens to the story writes his own interpretation if you will of her words and celia signs with an x, but we're right to be skeptical about this sort of artifact precisely because we know celia herself could not read and review the document, even as the x suggests that she somehow consented to its content. so i think literacy is an important piece. a number of you mentioned isolation, and here isolation in celia's story takes a number of forms, doesn't it? on the one hand we can contrast her experience with that of jacobs who lives in a small town, where she has regular access -- we'll come back to her family -- but even in the

intercourse of her day to day life with free african-americans, with other white people in edenton, jacobs has a kind of world, right that becomes critical to understanding how she resists the doctor and ultimately how she escapes. it is that proximity to other people celia, by contrast, you're absolutely right, what her life was like we can't say, we don't know. but certainly, we know that when we makes that brief migration, if you will from audreyian to fulton to the newsom farm, she is clearly without family and without acquaintances, and the isolation of that farm, many miles from downtown fulton means that she doesn't have the

kind of access to allies to information, to resources that jacobs herself had. that's most vividly underscored by the question of family, isn't it? we know the role that family plays a powerful role that family plays for harriet jacobs her grandmother and her uncle early on who not only provide her psychological support, but they are a sort of moral compass, if you will, that buttresses jacob's critique of her own condition, that she has these kinds of family interlock coup ors who are very critical to her resistance to dr. flint over time. again, celia, unclear, slaves in that household in 1850, only two adult slaves celia and george by the time newsom is killed. what sort of community might

that have been for celia? a modest one. perhaps one that was profoundly transient, we see enslaved people there and then disappear, are they sold, do they run away? we can't say, but we know there's a trance see yens to this. and while she certainly seems to have an intimate relationship with george we can see the ways in which that was a modest and perhaps somewhat impoverished context relative to jacobs' choice. chivon pointed to the similarity, and they are both mothers, motherhood is a theme that we have come back to again and again. and we see two women who clearly on the one hand jacobs, who very strategically secrets herself, looking not only to secure her own liberty away from

north carolina, but thinking very strategically to secure the liberty of her children, which eventually she will achieve. celia on the other hand with two small children and there's that moment when it seems to be the case, right, that she gives herself up in a futile but still powerful attempt to direct the threat, that if she won't tell the story, she will be separated from her children. so motherhood and the fate of one's children. the fate of one's relationship to one's children i think, is that chi hrks ooirkschivonne what you were get at? i think this is a powerful similarity. here on the one hand, we might think about celia and harriet

jacobs as two very powerful narratives, both of which speak to the pervasiveness, the terrible duress that sexual assault disproportionately visits upon enslaved women. these are two powerful examples but as we have also said across the semester, hour work is partly not to collapse or reduce all enslaved women all black women to one experience. and we can appreciate, i think through this comparison, the ways in which time and place and circumstances are essential to explaining how it is that for jacobs, freedom, liberation, comes by way of hiding by way of fugitive status, by way of writing, and for celia liberty

in a sense, right, comes through force, through that club through that violent confrontation. two women's responses to what we might say at core is a shared experience and at the same time an experience that is framed very differently and has as we know vastly different outcomes. so i want to shift now, because part of the way we have been talking about celia's case particularly as we compare her experience to that of harriet jacobs allows us to talk about the social world in a very ambitious and open ended way, here i want to shift to underscore the ways in which once celia's story, once celia's

case enters legal culture the frame shifts and becomes much more narrow, more focused more special's edize specialized, more determined by the strictures or the questions of investigators, of judges, of lawyer than by the whole of celia's experience. so while there are many things we might know about celia's case, i want to talk a little bit about how we approach some of the evidence if you will and how legal culture thinks about that evidence. we're going to look at the transcriptions of some of the material in celia's trial reported, i want to pause at this juncture to give appreciations to a former u of m under graduate allison gorsitch.

allison was a senior here several years ago in the program in american culture she wrote an excellent senior thesis on to the history and the memory of the celia case. allison transcribed the trial recordsm that manuscript material and it's her transcription that we'll take a look at over the next few minutes. you all will appreciate allison i know since we ourselves wrestled with transcribing the letters of sarah max douglas, allison spent a year first transcribing and then analyzing these materials and she continues today to still work on the celia case as a j.d. phd student at yale, so i'm glad we have a chance to look at her early work on the celia case. here what we have in the record are sworn testimonies prior to

the trial, as part of the inquest, some of the figures local farmers who have come to the newsom farm have talked with the family, have talked with celia, have talked with george. they provide sworn statements to the inquest body as they celia should be indicted for murder. and sere -- something of what we know about this, i think important, but again hard to figure out figure and that is george. i don't know about you, but after i read celia's case the first time george was one of the most intriguing, important but difficult to situate figures. and you've read some of melton

nick warren's interpretation. but we're going to come back to the evidence and i'm going to ask you how we should understand the role of george in this story, based upon the testimony that we have. so here william powell, a local farmer he's relating his confrontation with george the day after newsom has disappeared. i asked his negro boy george where he thought he was. that is where newsom was. he stated he did not believe it was worth while to hunter for him anywhere except close around the house. for he had reasons to believe he was not far off. i told him he had better go and show us the old man if he knew where he was. he stated he believed the last walking he had done was along this path that is the path between newsom's home and celia's cabin.

pointing to the path leading from the house to the negro cabin, that's celia's cabin. from the statement of george, i believe he had been destroyed or killed in the negro cabin. in celia's cabin. so here we have powell george does not give a formal statement at this state in the proceeding we hear george's words filtered through powell's ideas. but we have the suggestion that what? that george has somehow, if not imp implicated celia he certainly has implicated celia's cabin as the site of newsom's demise. and as we know, this will lead powell and others to more close closely scrutinize the area around celia's cabin, but also to more closely scrutinize celia

herself. this is part of what precedes then, the confrontation with celia. powell also testifies at the trial and in the record, we have a transcription of his oral testimony and here on cross-examination, which is to say, as he's being examined by the attorneys for celia, he again, speaks of george. i went into the cook house where celia was. i told her she knew where her master was. that george had said enough u to make me believe she knew where he was. she denied it. so now george is even more deeply implicated, isn't he? even more deeply implicated. powell is now relating again his interpretation, his memory of his first confrontation with

celia in the kitchen, he says i told her she knew where her master was that george had said enough to make me believe she knew where he was. well, not exactly what he's told us just prior right? george said, george said something about the vicinity of celia's cabin. so we can see the ways in which powell and others who are investigating this case begin to discern that between celia and george might be a space in which they can insert some doubt, insert some confusion that might net them more evidence, might even net them a confession, right? so powell, begins to play celia and george off one another in a sense.

and embellishing perhaps, even what george has said to him. but celia as he know at this juncture, remains resolute that she had nothing to do with this. finally, jefferson jones, and jefferson jones, you'll remember is neighboring farmer, large farmer in full on the whose farm is just adjacent to that of the newsom family. jefferson jones is one of the first people outside of the newsom family itself on the scene. and his testimony will play an important role, both in the indictment of celia and ultimately in her conviction. jones himself is a small slave holder in fulton. at trial he testifies, said he was standing in the middle of the room when she struck him. this is celia. i asked her whether she had told anyone that she intended to kill the old man. jones has a theory right that

perhaps there's a modest conspiracy afoot perhaps celia was premeditated in her plan. i asked her whether she had told anyone that she intended to kill the old man she said she never had. i told her that george had run off and she might as well tell if he had anything to do with killing the old man. she said that george need not have run off, for me knew nothing about it. i asked her if george had offered to kill the old man, another theory, not only that she in fact had premed todayed but in fact that it was george who had told her to kill newsom. she said he never had. said that george had told her that he would have nothing more to do with her if she did not quit the old man, said that george had been staying with her. so, yeah?

>> i was reading a little bit online digging into more detail. he may not necessarily have told her to, but he pressured her into no other option but to kill him. like he would have nothing else to do with her if she didn't do nothing. in the second case she didn't know if it was the master or george. >> probably wire probably most unsure about celia's third child. she's pregnant at this moment, and there's an open question as to whether that child was fathered by newsom or by george. so there is a strong suggestion that there is an intimate relationship between celia. george, stays with her this notion that george has urged celia, suggested strongly to celia that she should avoid newsom, it's possible that theirs is a more friendly kind

of relationship like they are brother and sister, and george is looking out for celia's% interest. but it seems to be more likely that he had been staying with her, that they had an intimate relationship of a sort. and there's no question now when we get to the question of jones, that celia herself is re-enforcing the theory that certainly george played a role in this story, though she's quite resolute still, even here in her confrontations with jones, that george has not advised her to harm newsom, did not conspire with her to kill newsom, did not have a physical hand either in harming newsom or disposing of the body these are all the kinds of questions that we have. but it's clear, there's a role. he goes on she said, struck with the right hand on the right side of his head, i asked her if she did not know, that she could

not have struck him as she said and if george had not struck the old man from behind, she said he did not, that he knew nothing about it and was not there at the time. so again, jones has pressed this theory that george has a role and celia remains consistent throughout the many opportunities that she has to tell her own stoirksry, she remains resolute that george did not have a role. so when i look back on this testimony and i ask myself, why do i have why am i still have questions about george? i think there's no fact more familiar you'll tell me if this is true for you there's no fact that's more provocative than that one in which we learn that jones tells celia that george has run off.

did you have a reaction to this notion that george has apparently, according to jones run off? how should we or how might we interpret george's running off at this juncture? and why does that -- why go you think that shapes my initial impressions of george? yeah? >> he ran off like, i don't know, it just made it seem like he did have something to do with. it, like he's guilty of something. and for me, i feel like it was kind of messed up if him and celia are together, why would he point out that mr. newsom was at her cabin? i don't know if it was me i would probably be like i don't know where he was at or i have

dmo no idea, or maybe he was over at the chickens or something i wouldn't like point her out like that. so i feel very weird about george. >> can you point to something? i know what you've got. but tell me, when you point to this, is there something in this testimony or other testimony that leeds you despite celia tells you, over and over again, george had nothing to do with it? why do you think that? >> that's pointing out that you're guilty. he didn't run away when he was there, all of a sudden now that he dies oh, george left. she could be strong enough, obviously to like kill, but i feel like she would need some help from a man. i feel like slaves back then. i guarantee she feared her master, so she wouldn't want to do it by herself. so i feel like george kind of

helped her out. >> i've got a lot of hands, so i'm going to work my way across the room. >> also like helped put him in the fire at least, some type of help. for the killing of it. and also like, any man, any man in slavery, i would think like this man is sexually abusing my girl, and like, okay, you can't do anything about it. but when i have the opportunity, i'm pretty sure that somebody will react to it. so obviously he's dead now, no one wants to get caught. so i'm going to try to help my girl whatever they were at the time, you know, get rid of the body. >> okay, good. >> so nobody gets in trouble. >> okay, i'm coming this way. >> i think every wants to believe that a woman isn't strong enough to actually have the power to kill him. so i think what the court askis

trying to do is they have already established the threat of a black man how strong he is, how aggressive they assume he is but for a black woman to have that kind of power to kill a master just brings up a whole other issue. maybe the court's trying to justify the situation saying it's a strong, aggressive black man, black slave man that did it versus a slave woman that did it. and i think that with george, i mean he already threw her under the bus anyways, but at that point, when she was in the court, she had a chance to kind of get revenge on him if she wanted to. so i felt the way he might have felt is if they say anything about her children in the court she might say anything to get out of the situation so at that point, he really was at the mercy of celia. so i feel like he, for self-preservation, he did the best thing for himself by

running away. >> molly? >> how else would he know where like, why would he suggest where mr. newsom was, if he didn't have something to do with it. unless she told him and he's covering for her by -- it does seem to me like i guess celia was about my age, i don't think i could pull the dead body of an old man, i don't think i'm strong enough, i don't see how she could do that by herself, especially if she's pregnant and sick. >> you talk about other women who -- that they were so strong i think you would be capable of pulling a dead body if you had to. but in terms of george maybe celia felt like she needed him to be out of the case because she was very attached to her children and like we said there

was only two black adults at this family farm. and so if he was convicted too, there would be no one to watch her children. but i couldn't imagine what she felt like if they told her he had ran, but where would her children go? and i don't really feel like that was ever fully discussed. >> okay. >> got one here. >> going off there were only two adult slaves, i think we don't know if they had an intimate relationship, but if they did, he would be her only quote, unquote family that she had. and i think he would have done anything to protect him even if he had been involved and he had run away. >> i also think that, i mean, not like, yeah if he did run away, he like, left her under the bus, but at the same time, i don't think that implies guilt necessarily, because there are only two slaves on this farm.

and, like, i don't think that they would have just the way the systems and slavery works i don't think they would have seen george innocent think they would like to see george innocent in any way. i think he could have run away to save himself. that doesn't necessarily imply guilt. that is something is prevalent today. people who don't have the means to represent themselves in court, feel they have no option, it doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty. they say things that aren't necessarily true to responses they -- to get responses they want. this could have been something that jefferson jones was saying to say, look george ran away

tell us everything that you know. you are the only one left. we are going to pin it on you. >> everybody has different ideas. i question. it took her i am

glad to know, after reading this evidence share my initial unsettledness about the role of george. let's remember uall we have in terms of evidence.

in after effort to extract confunctions to secure a conviction. as researchers, as historians, we read this with caution. just because jones tells us that george had run off. look what he said. i told you that george had run off. i told her george had run off. we are not surprised. right.

that is to say it is powerful testimony, it is provocative, it shapes our ideas. our perceptions understandings of what transpired. you all know that last weekend no it wasn't even last weekend

it was last wednesday i spent the day with the celia project, on the history of the celia case, we visited fulton, missouri. woo had the trial record from the court archives. after newsome die, we all know he is killed in june of 1855. it would be necessary for his heirs, and the legal representatives to take an inventory, to accumulate off his assets and debts and the court

records survived. the originals are there in the kingdom of calloway inventory. estate records, i know you can't see it here, toward the inventory of the slaves in the house hold there is no negro man valued at $900. george had not disappeared at all. when it comes time to inventory this estate. if we continue through the record. george himself will be sold. he was sold to a slave holder for more than his value for

$1190, and hasn't disappeared at all. george is ultimately caught up in the aftermath of newsome's killing. he is not ever charged or convicted of newsome's murder, but he is subject to what we have come to understand is another. of slavery's most harsh practices. he is sold away. he is sold away. from the people he knew best. george now is sold away.

our work going forward in unraveling the mysteries of the celia case requires us to read it along side the other materials as a way of perhaps the fall-out of celia's effort to defend herself. they are both caught up in the story in harsh ways. as below the entry there for george entry

in the inventory, are then, the other two slaves, they are children. celia's children. a one, a girl named jane who is ho three years old. poth here valued at $150 each. when george is sold, when we account the record of george's of sale along side is the sale of s two celia's two daughters out of the newsome household as well. new evidence allows us to, and new layers, and think with t important nuance about this case. is that part of what you know, at the end of this trial being the

presiding judge the trial judge will instruct the jurors in this case. what does it mean to instruct the the jurors?urors here jurors are not legal professionals, they tonight have any special knowledge of the law be it of rape, be it of murder,f be it of self defense part of the court's role at the end of the hearing of the evidence to instruct the jury, educate the jury, direct the jury about the so law so that jurors can weigh the evidence and ultimately, the of question of celia's guilt s against the law as the court instructs it. i want to look at the state law and then, at the actual instructions in this case. we learn i think from this, thewhich ways in which the powerful