kind of goes back to over about an hour ago. mr. palone. we should tell you ahead of time we should have a closed rule so you didn't have to waste your time to come up here. i think that's a darn -- i think that's a darn bad idea. >> no, my understanding is that you guys don't decide -- >> i'm making a statement to the gentleman, that's where we were going to come. and i don't think we ought to do that. i'm delighted that you're here, frank. and i think you have having a chance -- well you know it may or may not matter to some people. but it matters to me and i think it matters to people and i hope it matters to you. mr. chairman. >> nobody suggested that he not be welcome. >> i don't think that at all. i think that -- >> that's not what the point of the number was. it was simply to say that for a lot of members who come up here and wait hours to offer amendments when we know in advance it ought to be a closed rule, ought to have the opportunity to decide whether it's worth their time. >> hope it was worth his time to be here.

you're always welcome up here. >> thank you. >> gentleman from florida seek recognition. >> yes, thank you. >> gentleman's recognized. >> mr. chairman first. thank you. and our presenters i perceive and believe that mr. pallone and mr. shuster are two good friends of mine here in congress. and i'm deeply appreciative of them all the time. i'm hopeful of mr. cramer getting to know you better. on this subject, i would echo the sentiments of my good friend. it does appear just listening to you, and this is the second time i've had that opportunity that you certainly do know your subject. and i, for one am appreciative of members who make their presentations in a manner that is not abrasive but makes it in

a persuasive manner in the perspective that you hope. i also would like to borrow from our good friend from oklahoma, mr. cole a notion of something that i believe he and i would be able to work on right away. and i've done some initial work on it. understanding that the price of oil or today, and i'm not a petroleum expert or i don't have any stock. i used to tell people only stock i had was in over the counter. and that was groceries. so i'm not in the market, and i don't understand truly the spot market and how oil is transmitted. but general way i do. but it would seem to me while

prices are low now whatever our, meaning the american oil reserve is, it should either be if it is not already maximized it certainly should be maximize maximized. and if the potential exists and legislation is required to increase the maximum amount of our oil reserve it would seem to be that this would be the perfect time to do it because we probably have about a 6-month, 1-year window before that price is going to go back up. and then regrettably, not in my lifetime, i won't get to see the full thrust of alternative energy. all of us that are advocating know that it's going to be a 20 25, 30-year process before you will really see a lot of solar and thermal and wind and other things like that. they're in progress. but we are not getting there

fast enough for me. let me also put on the table an area that i have a measure of expertise, i don't agree with the notion of requiring the litigation to be held in the circuit court or here in d.c. article 3 courts will set up for a reason. and among them was to ensure that litigants would be able to access to the court. and so far as efficiency is concerned. if it's in an area that requires expedition. the courts are fully in a position to do that whether it's at the district court level or at the circuit court level. when appropriate. there's no assurance because it's in the d.c. circuit court that is going to be done rapidly either. it dead pans on a given day on a given issue as to whether or not

it would even be deserving of going to the supreme court as it were. i do have a question, and that is again, following on my friend from oklahoma when he pointed out i had written on my little notes that i wanted to ask how much of the pipeline has already been built. then i heard the discussion on that. i do have an american question on that. and that is do any of you know whether the steel that has been utilized in the building of the pipeline is american steel? >> gentleman yield? >> yes. >> it certainly is. a lot of that steel built in arkansas. but it's american steel american products. >> right. then that all goes well for your position. now, let me get to a stickier subject. i, too, have friends in canada. i served with a senator.

i served with an organization for security and cooperation in europe. i served with the former defense minister and foreign minister of canada. but we're making this sound like this is a canadian thing. and when the argument is made about it won't cost an american taxpayer anything to build this while i agree, that suggests to me knowing my canadian friends that there are private investors that are in transcanada. and it's kind of ironic that they're never talked about. the who they are, they're not all canadian. some of them are american. and i'm not grudgeful of folk who had great genetic accidents and abilities as a result thereof.

but the fact of the matter is that some people that are involved in transcanada, they are givers to canadian parliamentarians under their structure and givers to some of us, as well. >> does the gentleman yield? >> yes. >> just by way of information, and i probably should double check, but i'm almost certain transcanada is an american company. it's based in the united states. >> mm-hmm. and investors, and -- >> well, as my friend knows, there's considerable cross-border investment between canada and the united states. >> sure. and i stay away from pointing out. i've read the articles as to who owns, you know. and i'm not uptight about that. i do have abiding concerns, for example, the national security argument, i could flip it. if we were in other areas for

example, putin just shut down one he was getting ready to run across kazakhstan. and no one has satisfied me yet as if this is so good for america, then why isn't canada running it through their own territory? which would be their option if by chance it does not ever lift here fully operative, then they're going to wind up doing it in canada. but i don't want to belabor the point. there are several other areas. i, too, am concerned, as ms. slaughter has pointed out. there will be spills. there will be concerns. i'm not sure what the nebraska litigation is contemplating. i hesitate because so many people on the negative side of the endangered species arguments. i don't know whether there are any that are contemplated here or need to be.

and so, i'll be -- listening. i do want to end with a moment of humor. we spend our time with the keystone pipeline and there's a fear of brewery in belgium that is run in a beer pipeline 2 miles outside, but he wanted to keep the family business manufacturing it where it is. and i'd hell of a lot rather be at the end of their pipeline than at the end of this one. that's all. i yield. >> gentleman yields back his time in an effort to keep this committee hearing going. i know we've been here a long time, i'd defer and ask the gentleman from colorado if he seeks recognition. >> where is the financing for the pipeline project coming from?

>> quite honestly, i don't know it where it comes from, i suspect the shareholders and the administration. the executives of transcanada which i believe is a canadian company, not an american company. >> i recently read a report, and i haven't seen this disputed that shows that the majority of the tar sands about 90% of it require a price of $95 a barrel and the other 10% require a price of about $75 per barrel. given that the price of oil is essentially lower than that, is there any evidence that this would even move forward as a construction project even if the president or congress were to approve it? >> well, i guess -- first of all, that's not germane to this bill, obviously, because it's not our decision to make whether they build it or don't build it. our decision is to -- whether

it's in the nation's interest. should they build it? or if it's not in the nation's interest, they shouldn't build it. and the reality is, investors will make that decision. but there's nothing that procludes this from going forward based on the financing of the development of the crude oil. >> look i hope we wouldn't be wasting time congress' time with the project that isn't feasible or isn't likely to occur. so hopefully there can be some evidence presented on the floor about whether this is a viable project and whether anybody is serious about moving forward with this. >> they haven't withdrawn the application as far as i know. >> the market will determine that just like the low oil prices isn't good for oklahoma, not good for the steel industry. u.s. steel in pittsburgh announced they're eliminating 400, 500 jobs in ohio and in texas because the market's not there for the pipe that goes to the ground. so the market, and as he said, no one's withdrawn and i haven't

heard anything at this point. >> again, from the evidence i've seen here, nobody actually wants to pay for a bill this pipeline that we're talking about here. i don't know -- >> then we could all win. >> i don't know why we're talking about it. maybe it's again a little deja vu. it had be talked about, $110 a barrel. perhaps a relevant discussion at that point. >> no taxpayer money going into this. private people are going to decide whether they're going to spend it or not spend it. >> that's the question. any private people that actually want to build this pipeline? so, again, for this to be a topic of serious debate, it would be nice to have evidence that somebody wants to build a pipeline as opposed to talking about a phantom pipeline. >> i've never heard a stronger argument for the cart coming before the horse. you know, the chicken or the egg, you're not always sure, this is the cart before the horse. dr. burgess? >> thank you mr. chairman. and you're correct. we've observed a lot of things on this, but i do feel it's important to reiterate part of

this pipeline from cushing, oklahoma, to houston texas, is built. people have put up with the pipeline being built in the backyards and now it's waiting for the rest of the connection. and my personal feeling is they waited long enough. i'll be happy to be talking about this a lot tomorrow and yield back my time. >> mr. stivers? >> thank you, mr. chairman. and appreciate all the members for being here. i think this is a national security and it's an energy security issue for america. and to the point the gentleman from colorado made you know we don't know what the price of oil's going to be tomorrow but what we do know is there's a pending application. and this is it's a good opportunity for us to start to create a national energy policy which we desperately need in this country. and we need secure trading partners with whom we agree on international issues. we buy a lot of oil from venezuela and other countries we don't agree with on many things.

internationally, i don't know why we wouldn't want to buy our oil from a country we've agreed with since the french and indian war. so i feel very comfortable with this. i would want to thank you for all being here. i think there were great exchanges of ideas but i think this is a great idea that needs to move forward and i appreciate the gentleman from north dakota for all his efforts on it. >> thank you very much, mr. stivers, welcome to the committee, mr. collins? >> mr. chairman, i appreciate being recognized and being here on the committee and being a part of this. because one of the things that was discussed and one of my colleagues from across over there, this is a process. this is a committee process but also an issue and congress process. how much more process does this need? how many more times do we need the practice on the field? jobs, secondary jobs money invested. i mean, it is sort of interesting that i believe there was no interest in this pipeline

that would definitely not be an interest in the permit. i think the idea it was going to get built, or not, is really definitely not a concern because we're still here. the people keep coming back for this. the issue, again, it is amazing to me when we continue this conversation habit movinge ing about moving it by train. the least safest way we're arguing for, i had a professor at georgia tech who our only argument was when we're talking about this well, there's other ways in the environment we're scared of what's next. i said you're arguing, actually, to move it by nonenvironmentally friendly way. that's the part that really struggle with here. but i just wanted to say at this moment just to say, the one thing that shows process here is regulatory burden in this country. and i know we're going -- as republicans, we're talking a lot about that. the regulatory process, i'm not one that says there should be no regulatory function of government, state, local or federal.

but there has to be reasonable regulatory burden. this is an example of just a massive bungling. and i just want to say also from my class, it comes with our class, it is good to see him here. his expertise has been acknowledged from the other side. it's refreshing, especially on this issue to here and also the concerns on both sides. there are valid concerns. there are also valid concerns that both democrats and republicans agree, this is a good idea, it's time to put this on the floor. i yield back. >> thank you very much. as a young boy i remember studying about philmont scout ranch. i rattle on about the outer doors and a lot of things, but also learned about the people that were behind that. and the gentleman's name was phillips who gave the scout ranch the boy scouts of america. and he had a saying that went like this, take all the time you need, then make a quick decision. take all the time you need. well, i think we need to make i

think we've taken all the time we need, now let's make a quick decision. i think that's what we're trying to do today. i want to thank all three of you for being before the committee today. i hope your time was well worth it. mr. chairman, i know you're busy. you enjoy this way too much. we understood that. thank you very much. this now closes the hearing portion of hr-30 save america workers act of 2015 and hr-3, the keystone xl pipeline act. chairman will be in receipt of a motion from the gentlewoman from north carolina. >> mr. chairman, i move the committee grant, hr-3, the keystone xl pipeline act a closed rule. the rule provides one hour debate equally divided among and controlled by the chair and ranking member of the minority committee on transportation and infrastructure and the chair and ranking minority member of the committee on energy and commerce. the rule waives all points of order against consideration of the bill. the rule provides that the bill

shall be considered as read. waives against all provisions in the bill. provides one motion to recommit. section two of the rule provides for consideration of hr-30 to save american workers act of 2015. under a closed rule the rule provides one hour debate equally divided and controlled by the chair and ranking minority member of the committee on ways and means. the rule waives all points of order versus consideration of the bill. the rule provides that the bill shall be considered as read. the rule waives all points of order against provisions in the bill. finally, the rule provides one motion to recommit. >> the motion from the gentlewoman of north carolina is there a discussion or amendment to that? gentleman from colorado. >> mr. chairman the amendment to the rule, the necessary amendments. this amendment would increase the number of full-time employees exempted from the calculation of the affordable care act's employer penalty. and increase the exemption from 30 to 49 employees to provide

for a more rounded and pro-business way of accomplishing, i think, some of the goals of the deficit busting version that we otherwise would face. >> further discussion. the vote will now be on the amendment from the gentleman from colorado. those in favor, saying aye. >> aye. >> those opposing say no. >> no. >> nos have it. the vote will now be on the motion from the gentlewoman from north carolina. those in favor, aye. >> aye. >> those opposed no. >> no. >> the ayes have it. gentlewoman asked for roll call vote. clerk? >> ms. fox. >> aye. >> mr. cole? >> -- aye. >> aye. mr. woodall aye. mr. burgess aye. mr. stivers? >> aye. >> mr. collins. >> aye. >> ms. slaughter?

>> no. >> mr. mcgovern? >> no. >> mr. hastings? no. mr. chairman? >> aye. >> mr. chairman, aye. >> that would make it -- eio. >> clerk will report the total. seven yays four nays. >> and the gentleman from louis lewisville, texas, will begin on this for the republicans. >> and democrats. >> mr. pollis for the democrats. i want to thank not only the staff, the new staff and welcome them but also all the people including our great sten nothingstenographers who have taken time out of their day. this finishes the work for today and thank everybody for being here. this closes the hearing.

>> at the white house today, president obama called the terrorist attack in paris this morning a, quote, cowardly evil act. the president spoke in the oval office. >> all of us recognize that france is one of our oldest allies, our strongest allies. they have been with us at every moment when we've from 9/11 on in dealing with some of the terrorist organizations around the world that threaten us. for us to see the kind of cowardly evil attacks that took place today i think, reinforces, once again, why it's so important for us to stand in solidarity to them just as they stand in solidarity with us. the fact that this was an attack on journalists attack on our

free press. also underscores the degree to which these terrorists fear freedom of speech and freedom of the press. but the one thing that i'm very confident about is that the values that we share with the french people a belief a universal belief in freedom of expression is something that can't be silenced because of the senseless violence of the few. >> more from president obama later today here on c-span 3. he's traveling to michigan to speak at a ford assembly plant about the u.s. economy and job creation. that's live at 3:45 p.m. eastern, again, here on c-span 3. until that starts, a conversation from this morning's washington journal. >> governor gary herbert, the governor of utah, also the vice

chair of national governor's association, good morning. >> good morning to you. >> you're in washington, you met with the president yesterday, what was on the agenda? >> i think mainly to say it's a new year new beginning. a new opportunity for us to work together and certainly the governors and the states want to be a partner in shaping policy for the -- on the national stage. and frankly, the governors in the states are good resources for not only the president but for congress as we deal with some of these challenging issues for the american public. >> you and governor hickenlooper who is the chair of the governors association met with the president. what was on top -- what's top of the agenda list? >> well transportation and reauthorization. our infrastructure needs and we've had kind of a slowing down. not getting accomplished the transportation reauthorization. federal government involvement with our interstate highways has been there since the 1950s with president eisenhower. always been a commitment. that commitment seems to be

waning. more responsibilities going to the states. and that probably -- there's an appropriate balance. we think they need to step up and fund their appropriate share or state highway and federal highway system. >> how much do states depend on the federal government for highways and the like? give us an example from utah's position? >> we get probably somewhere in the neighborhood of about $250 million a year comes into our highway system. we spend about $1 billion a year. it's about 25% of our overall expenditures on highways. that's a smaller portion than we've had in times past. it's larger than some years. but we're not really on our highway system in the nation doing the maintenance work that needs to be done. we're not expanding capacity. and as a country that's still growing quite rapidly, up to 320 million people, infrastructure needs and transportation are really a key issue for not just quality of life but economic development. >> have you talked with gop

leaders about this issue? >> we have an opportunity and we'll take advantage of the opportunity now. we've got leadership races over and the congress is back in place. we'll be coming back in february, and many governors will probably have the majority of the 50 governors and our territorial governors, too. here talking about issues that are of common need for the states. and talk to leadership in both the senate and the house and republican and democrat alike. >> you talked about the concerns about reauthorizing the bill. we have a new congress. we've been talking to folks about common ground. is transportation one of those common ground issues that you think the two -- the white house and the congress can find? >> oh, yes. i think so. it's not a matter of do we need it. at what level do we fund it. and, of course the big debate and where does the funding come from? right now we have a gap. and so the question is should

there be a gasoline tax increase, for example? or is there a place to raise the revenue? in states, we've really don't pay with things with one-time money. too often washington, one-time money takes care of this year, but what do they do the next year. to develop the revenue stream. the gasoline tax has been one mostly used in the past. most states have a balance between general fund moneys and gasoline user tax to come up with the kind of the balanced approach to build their own highways. >> the governor with us to talk about issues that are concerning the states. he's the vice chair of the national governor's association. met with president obama yesterday. if you want to ask him questions about what states face overall particularly maybe give us examples from your state if you want, here's how you can do so. 202-748-8000 is our line for democrats. 8001 the line for republicans,

and 202-748-8002, the line for independents. aside from transportation, governor, what are some of the major issues that states face? >> well, there's a lot of issues out there. and every state has its own unique uniqueness. that's the beauty of the system. we call it the united states of america. and as we all know the famous statement by judge brandeis the laboratories of democracy. we have unique demographics unique policy unique cultures. and we learn from each other. that's one of the beauties of the national governor's association is that we look at best practices in other states, learn from the successes. learn from the failures and modify and improve and learn together. the one size fits all approach which doesn't necessarily fit. so we think we are a resource for washington. a look at the states, let us help you as we decide and debate policy out here. where it's health care reform

transportation, national defense, national guard or army reserves, those kind of things that are in the backyards. a lot of areas where the congress and president can learn from the states. >> what about education? common core? i think the idea of having standards, i don't think any governor doesn't want high standards. and frankly, governors have been disappointed, you know, about the fact that we've dropped in the world rankings when it comes to educational achievement. 25, 26 we're certainly not at the top of the pack. and so the motivation from governors that developed really the standards that became the common core was motivated because had the desire to elevate and have high standards. the same time you've got to contrast that with states. it's their responsibility. it's not washington's responsibility. it's the state responsibility for education within the borders of their state. and they don't want to give up any kind of sovereign control of that. and so standards should be

developed by the states independent of washington, d.c., the curriculum should be developed independent of washington, d.c. to address their own unique demographics. and that's some of the pushback you see with i think the common core rebellion or concern that we see in many of the states today. >> how does washington -- how does utah deal with common core? >> well we've gone through to make sure legally we are in control of our education system. we've had our attorney general do a complete legal analysis to ensure us and utah that we are in charge of the education system, that the standards are our standards. we can modify them and improve them. we'll probably have a report coming out here in the next few weeks to give to our state elected school board as recommendation for what the standards should be in modified somewhat differently probably than what the common core is. also making sure the school board understand their responsibility is how do you teach to the standards? what is the curriculum?

and making sure that it's local control from top to bottom in the state of utah. we're also looking to make sure we're control of our resources what we require for textbooks. our testing is developed here in utah. by ourselves, we're not part of the nationalized testing program. and we're also concerned about data collection to make sure that what data's being collected from our students what is appropriate to collect and also, what can you do with that data. i think we're trying to alleviate any concerns that somehow we've ceded that responsibility to washington, d.c. >> would you describe yourself as a supporter of common core overall? >> i'm a supporter of standards, high standards, and the common core standards had to do with reading, language arts and math. and those standards nationally have to be raised. i agree with that. but i also agree that states should be in charge and we should control that. and it's really a local control issue. >> the challenges facing the nation's governors.

again, the numbers will be on your screen. let's hear first from alice. alice is from missouri on our independent line you're on with gary herbert of utah, the vice chair of the national governor's association. good morning, go ahead. >> caller: good morning. i would like to make a comment about the roads and stuff. if we would get a lot of the big trucks off of the big roads and bring back more of the railroads, we would be a lot better. i was raised in the '50s. and we had better roads than they do now. and on school, i think the parents should be in charge of their children's education. i had a grandson come out of sixth grade, he couldn't read, write or nothing. he's been home schooled the last five years and he has accomplished a lot more with his his -- and us teaching him at home. i feel this country has gotten to the point where the government wants to take over our lives and i don't think it's right. we should be able to control our

own lives at home and the government take care of government. >> well, thank you. i think the parents should be in charge of education. i agree. the best precursor to success in education is when parents are involved. and it doesn't matter whether it's home schooling or public schooling or private schooling or charter schools. there's a variety of different options out there, and parents and families ought to make that choice. what's in their own best interests, fits for their own desires of how they bring up their children. we have a lot of successful home schoolers in utah. we have people that go to charter schools that have been a big part of our public education, and we have the ability for people to choose their schools within the public education system. it's extremely important to the success of the students. i agree with that. clearly as we've developed particularly from the '50s you mentioned in the '50s. put on the interstate system

which has been a great blessing to our nation, to be able to get from point "a" to point "b" and have roads that connect with each other and make it travel a little bit more conducive for business as well as just individual and personal travel, you know, that infrastructure needs to be maintained. and with the growth of the population, it needs, in fact, to be expanded. railroads are a little more rigid. you don't have the flexibility with the roads. it's a combination of both our railroads in utah are working very well. they continue to service for commercial and industrial needs. they certainly are a part of our transportation system but not the entire part. >> clover, south carolina. you're up next. this is danny, republican line, hi. >> yes, good morning, governor. >> good morning. >> i wanted to say something about education. it seems to me that you got states and local school boards who were in charge of education.

it's those people who should be adults can't figure out what to feed little johnny for lunch or can't figure out how to teach little johnny to read and write, then they need to be invited to go home and let someone else have that position. the idea that some bureaucrat in washington needs to tell the local school boards or the states how to educate children, it's just ridiculous. and i have a comment about the roads and the gas tax. it's not unusual here to drive up on a construction site and you've got one guy working and six guys watching. now, you want to raise the gas tax so maybe we can have one guy working and ten guys watching? >> thanks, caller. >> well, we certainly want to find efficiencies in government. and there are those anecdotal stories where we've got six guys leaning on one shovel. i know at least in utah, where

i can speak to it, we have a very efficient department of transportation. and building more roads for less money than we've done and our cost per mile has gone down and our construction. so we privatize virtually everything we do. we certainly gather the money from our gasoline tax and general fund to build the roads, but then we contract out and have it bid out by private sector contractors. which, again gives competition to the issue so the best value for the lowest cost for taxpayer, and it works well in utah. and on education, i agree that we ought not to be dictated to by washington, d.c. because they're too far removed from our own backyards. the control ought to be with the parents and how the parents control it is by electing their school board members. if they don't like what they're doing and how they're performing, elect somebody else to do it right. the school board should control who is appointed for the

superintendent of schools, they should control who is the principals of the schools and empower them to manage the resources. if they don't do it right, replace them and someone who will run the schools appropriately. that puts the parents in control of who is elected for the school board. >> good morning. really enjoy c-span and listening to the governor. governor, af governor, i have a quick question for you. i agree, 50 independent states different set of problems that cover a wide and diverse spectrum. my question to you after listening to is i kind of wonder what you think about the expression, states rights. to me, in this era, states rights means each individual state expresses itself in the way you just described because they have different problems. when i have conversations about this with people at work, they

refer back to the '50s and '60s. when that express was used primarily to hold down minorities for voting rights and so forth. i wondered what your thought was on that and i'll just hang up and listen. thank you, governor. >> well, thank you. federalism was the idea we had these states out there again, laboratories of democracy. we got together you know, with the constitution and created the federal government. we felt like at the time that we needed a stronger centralized government, george washington was one who very much wanted to have a little more centralized government and ability to have national defense and regulate commerce and to have the states work together in a little more cohesive fashion. it was designed to be a partnership. the states were designed to be sovereign in nature. worked collectively with a centralized government. here's an interesting statistic to show you how we've gotten out

of kilter. if you took the collective budgets of all 50 states added them all up it's about $1.7 trillion. if you take the federal budget today it's about $4 trillion. we all know in the constitution the powers enumerated are few. and the responsibility of powers in states were many and varied. and yet, we've got this kind of upsidedown. too much power to washington, d.c., i agree. people have probably misused in the past state sovereignty and states rights. but that doesn't mean that the principle is not correct and that is that states are the laboratories of democracy. we have the ability to run pilot programs to try things out. and we'll win on some and lose on some others. we'll learn from each other. the one-size-fits-all mentality out of washington, d.c. is not conducive to good government and really does not represent the taxpayers very well as they make so many mistakes here. and they're so large they're not nimble to make any kind of

adjustment. we need to the united states. we should be on an equal playing field for the federal government. >> from ft. mills, south carolina, here's rose on the democrats' line. >> caller: good morning. >> good morning. >> caller: thank you for taking my call and good morning to both of you. >> thank you. >> caller: the governor makes many great points. however, you know, when you have a speaker on and they refer to washington as the enemy, i just wonder if the white house becomes a republican white house, will they have this obsession with federal government works against us? another comment i'd like to make is about schools. and i think that it is necessary because we have so many children who are undereducated. we have so many -- we have teachers that are coming out of

college that don't even take education courses. we have teachers who -- and i've been a substitute teacher and i've seen what i've had to work with as far as what the absent teacher leaves behind. i think one of the things that we have to do to improve education in this country is to hold a teacher's feet to the fire and make sure they're doing their job. >> well, let me respond to that. one, i hope i never refer to the federal government as the enemy. because they're not the enemy. they're our partner. we should be working together to solve the problems. and address the needs of the american public. we have state responsibilities within our borders, and we have a general responsibility through the federal government. it's not a matter of us versus them. it's really a matter of us working together. it's like any kind of a team effort. we have different roles as governors in the states. we have different roles in local governments. cities and counties.

but we all are on the same team including the federal government. we need to find ways to work together and really play our roles well. that would respond to what the needs of the taxpayers are. so i've been equally critical during a republican administration as far as the overreach of the federal government under the past administration with president bush as they reach in and take on more responsibility than really the federal government is warranted. on education again having high standards is really an important thing we need to attract the best and brightest into the classroom. some to do with salaries and some with appreciation. there needs to be support from the parents. we have too many parents that get upset at the teachers that are trying to do the best they can at classroom but have a problem because their children are not disciplined. you've probably seen that that's a parent problem, not a teacher education problem. that's a lack of discipline and

proper rearing by parents with their children. it really is a combination of us working together and we ought to show up at parent teacher conference nights and talk to the teachers and say how's my johnny doing and jane doing? and if they're not behaving properly, we've got to make sure that happens and changes are made in the home. together we can improve the education in this country if we work together. >> when it comes to funding transportation, said you were open to the idea of gas taxes, is that true? >> it is. >> i had a transportation summit over a year ago to look at the long-term aspects of transportation utah. we found that by 2040 with growth and we're about the second fastest growing state in america right now. good economics, quality of life people attracted to utah as well as a higher birthrate we've got to anticipate for the future. it's got to be really

generational thing as we look down the road. we came up $11 billion short. and we have not adjusted the gasoline tax in 17 years. just to recapture inflation means we should raise 10 cents a gallon. but we're having a discussion whether it should be an excised tax and a permanent tax like right now at about 24 1/2 cents to raise it up to 34 cents. should we have a sales tax? should we index it for inflation? should we have a combination? should we have more maybe a sales tax or fee on registration that raises up? or on batteries or higher sales tax on automobiles? how do we address, you know, electrical cars and nontraditional fuels. we don't tax, yet beat up the roads as much as anything else. that's going to be a debate and we'll have an adjustment and fuel tax and how we charge to maintain maintain the roads and build capacity.

>> how is your legislature responding to your idea? >> they understand, they're practical people. nobody wants to raise a tax. that that's the worst thing you can do as a politician. that's why it hasn't been done in 17 years. but the practical realities are, we've got to do something our capacity is not going to be what it needs to be. and then we end up hurting our economy overall, which means we could reduce our revenue stream. and our maintenance. our local governments are struggling, too. working together, obviously the federal government, we've talked about has a role to play for our state, as well as other states on the interstate highway system. we're going to address that and think long-term not short-term. >> should the federal government raise its gas tax. >> i think they should consider that. there's clearly a need for them to develop a revenue stream. somebody's got to come up with a revenue stream somewhere. there's certain things that, you know, are the responsibility of the government. i'm a conservative republican i

think that's limited national defense. interstate commerce and interstate travel is a part of that responsibility that the federal government has a role to play. and so develop your revenue stream. find efficiency some place else. cut over here and probably get out of areas we ought not to be in, too much of health and human services in some areas and put it into the infrastructure needs and let the other responsibilities devolve where they should be. >> joining us to talk about the challenges. steve in brownsburg, michigan, you are next for the governor, you're on the republican line, good morning. >> caller: yes good morning. i have a comment for the governor the highway fees and so forth for the taxes to help fund our infrastructure. i support some kind of a revenue enhancement to increase revenue to improve our roads and so

forth that i hope that instead of just pushing for a flat increase in the gas tax we start to address the funding from some user fees or so forth because the gas tax has now become somewhat regressive from the fact that the more affluent people can buy the newer cars which are more fuel efficient, electric cars and so forth as the lower income people are struck with the vehicles that get lower gas mileage and thus paying more to use the roads than the more affluent people. and we need some kind of thing -- and i think you just addressed it a second ago was the electric fuel in cars, but now basically very little gas. >> that's correct. and, again there's not really any kind of a silver bullet here. and that's why in our state we're going to look at a combination of different issues before we decide what is the most appropriate way to fund our

highway needs going forward. again, it's a long-term strategy, it's not going to be something we'll solve overnight. we'll get on the right path to make sure we have the ability to fund and maintain the roads we need in the state of utah. we're a large state we have a lot of roadways out there, some of the rural parts of the state really it hurts them disproportionately because of their needs in the agricultural part of our states and have more distances to travel and don't have any kind of metro system to help them get around mass transit. let me mention one other thing because it's i think important here, too when we talk about the role of the federal government, part of what we need to have out of the federal government changing the rules and regulations. we've -- i've met with many of the contractors that built roads, and they're saying you know, if we could get rid of many of the strings and the regulations that come in the processing to build a federal road, we could cut the cost by 20%. so get rid of the strings and some of the nonsensical regulations redundancy in the

system and we can actually build more roads for less money. that's a win/win. we get the roads we need to have we help the federal government balance the budget by reducing costs and getting rid of the red tape and the public has served on both sides of the equation and their cost and having the services they need from the roads. >> on our independent line, chuck from indiana. >> yes, there. i do have a few questions. state rights. when they come in and override the decision that you have made from your state, says no, you can't do this, then the federal government -- to the governors. and i believe there's too much of this going on. these people built a pond in the yard, they went through the county got the state's permission, had a pond in their yard and the epa comes along and says, well, it's going to cost

you $150,000 a day to use the gradient. who are these people? who do they think they are? they had a highway here where the clover leaf turned and that dirt's contaminated. you've got to take it out and haul it and put it in a pile somewhere. the grass, going to plant a garden there on the clover leaf turn. so as far as i'm concerned, it's a waste of our money and time and a direct tops everything that the governors are trying to do when it comes to building a highway. >> caller thanks. >> well, i can tell you that the epa is a challenge for, i think, all of the states. because under the clean air act empowerment has been given to the epa that sometimes seems draconian. gives them the ability to set rules and regulations. sometimes the rules and regulations that put into place make it a little difficult. and certainly, there are anecdotal stories out there

where it's been egregious and really by what they do with the epa and rules and regulations, there's an inverse condemnation that occurs where properties have been taken and taken away without, in fact u.s. compensation. so i know we are trying to work with epa on many issues. we have air quality issues in the state of utah. the epa has brought authority because environmental impacts no no border. if you have bad air in one state, it will drift over to the next state. if you contaminate the water and the underwater aquifers and the water sources it can cross over border. so there's a need to have a broader spectrum when it comes to environmental impacts. but i would say this and i've mentioned this to the president yesterday. it is a concern for the environmental impact studies that we have to do ad nauseam. i understand we ought to study and make sure we are good stewards of the earth. i support that. now take three four, or five years to do an environmental impact study is just ridiculous

and a waste of time. we can do them shorter than that. we can be effective and efficient. i'm making sure we're doing things that are appropriate for mother earth and protecting the environment which we all want to be as good stewards but the length of time that we have are taking for these studies is just ridiculous. >> governor, how is your state dealing with the affordable care act? what's been done in your state? >> well, the affordable care act, again, that's an example where i think we would have had a better product if somebody here in washington, the congress and the president said "why don't we talk to the governors? let's talk to the states and see what they think about this thing." everybody has a concern about health care, making sure it's affordable. but we were never consulted, never talked to. and i think that was a big mistake. >> do you have a federal exchange or a state exchange? >> we actually have a unique system in utah. i negotiated a hybrid. we have our own exchange that we had, massachusetts had one and utah had one. we're the only ones that had

them set fun n the beginning but ours has no mandate to it. so we have one that has defined contributions as opposed to defined benefits. we have contributions for employers and then the consumer can go to the internet and choose from about 125 different programs and it's worked very well for our small business. the individual mandate and the subsidy we've left to the federal exchange. so they have a federal exchange and a state exchange but we handle small business, they handle individual mandate. by the way, we're also working to try to come up with something as an alternative to medicaid expansion which we call healthy utah. >> that met resistance from your legislature, is that right? >> some not all. and, you know, we need to be convinced that it's the right thing to do in the long term. the concern the legislature has is are we buying something we can afford? it's one thing to say we'll get 100% funding now then go to 90/10. there's some concern, will the federal government always uphold their part of the bargain and

give us the 90%? it will still have an increasing cost. and can we afford it down the road in ten years? so that's just fiscally prudent so that's not a problem. we've also had a little twist we've tried to add in to it and say if you want to have health care from the taxpayer, we're prepared to provide you with health care but we ask you if you're able-bodied to make sure you let us help you also get a job. if you're able-bodied and can work we'll give you skill, education, training to get a job. if you're unemployed we'll help you get a better job. we think that's a fair exchange if you ask the taxpayers. we'll also help you get a job so you can get off of government assistance. >> here is cindy from north carolina, republican line. hi, cindy. >> caller: hi. my question -- am i on? >> you're on, go ahead. >> caller: okay. my question is one is very important to me and everyone

else, that we stand with israel, we stand with our allies. >> okay. >> well, i had a chance here a year ago to spend some time in israel and met with shimon peres, the president at the time and prime minister netanyahu and they both said a very interesting phrase to me. they said "governor we live in a very dangerous neighborhood." which is probably the understatement of the day. they very much appreciate the united states' support and i think we've given support an we'll continue to give them support. they are a stabilizing influence in the middle east and so i think they deserve our support. and i know we have a lot of connections in utah with israel and we support them as a nation. >> from alexandria, virginia karen up next independent line. karen, go ahead. >> caller: hello how do you do. good morning, governor. please, i want to give you a quote of john f. kennedy's

favorite poet robert frost. and that was "he was against a homogenized society because he wanted the cream to rise." we don't have cream rising in this nation today. our schools of education are cookie cutter factories. programming. there's no individualism. it's gone. there's no cream rising. our nation was built on immigrants that came to this country who use their own -- develop their own skills, pursueder their own passion and brought us -- made our country what it is today. they put our country on the map, the world map as one of the most technologically advanced in the world. where are they today? everybody is being programmed. one other issue that i did want to raise with you please, is i represented westinghouse nuclear

municipal industrial hazardous waste divisions beginning in 1982 on superfund projects. i'd like you to name one superfund project in the entire nation that has ever been resolved. >> well let me just -- if i can remember -- let me just talk about american exceptionalism, because i believe in american exceptionalism and i do believe that cream has risen to the top in the past and it certainly can many the future. if it's not taking place, we need to take stock in what is inhibiting that from happening. in utah we've started charter schools which have unique characteristics and unique discipline. so there is individualized efforts in these unique schools whether it be in the arts or engineering and other kinds of disciplines like math and science. you know, so they're not just cookie cutter schools and

parents have the ability to choose and put their children in schools that have a little different emphasis. so i think the -- it's not a cookie cutter system, at least in utah. we're trying to give a variety and opportunities. we have 41 school districts in utah and each local school board can develop their own unique curriculum to meet certain general standards that you would need to have to have a high school diploma. so there's some standardization. but the ability to have excellence. and we see what's taking place in the last little while in technology around this country. i mean, we have iphones now that can do everything that a small compute kerr do here just ten or 20 years ago. thinks we can't even comprehend as we access information in this great age. we have better health. we're living longer, better quality of lives, the advancement of science and medicine and america is great and people come to america for those kinds of health care issues. if you've got cancers, if you've got a heart problem they don't go to other countries, they come to america to have those kinds

of treatments. so i think we still have exceptionalism that's taking place in utah and america and i think that will continue. and if we have things that are getting away we ought to stop it. the last thing6!hñwas what? >> you know, caught me there. i totally -- i should have taken notes. let's move on to our next call. democrats' line. >> caller: yes, good morning. i'm glad you're taking my call. >> thank you. >> caller: i called because i was listening -- i watch c-span every morning, i'm 85 years old and this is my company in the morning. i listen to a lot of things and i don't understand the changes that they have made. me growing up in the south, we went to school. we had to be respected in school, respect the teachers. if you didn't respect that teacher, she could send you home or sit you in a corner until you learned to respect her. you can't teach a child if that child cannot respect you.

we have problems in school now. the parents want to fight the teachers if she tries to correct the child. they're take than out of schools. they're taking prayers out of schools, the pledge of allegiance. what do they have to learn? the teachers are afraid to try to correct the child in school today. if one of mine was in there and she spanked him and sent him home to me i'm spank his behind and carry him back. >> well, the good old days. there's no question i agree with you that we seem to have a little more lackadaisical approach to the discipline of our children and, again, i wouldn't want to say to anybody how you raise your children but clearly having discipline teaching them good values and principles, respect for your helders, there's a reason to go to school and it's not to just sit on the block, it's to knuckle down and learn. we need to elevate education and excellence in education and say

it's not just a matter of getting through high school which maybe was okay for my generation, but for the rising generation it's got to be post-high school. we set a goal in utah to have 66% of our adult population by 2020 that has some kind of post-high school either certificate, associate degree or full degree. we're doing that because education is a good thing to have number one. but the practical aspects of it if we're going to compete in the marketplace which is global in nature, you have to have skills line up with the demands of the market place. that means something beyond high school and more, so our emphasis is education, an opportunity for you to have options in your life choices. to support yourself and your family. that starts at home. our parents need to step up and say "let's teach our children good principle, the importance of education and give them the opportunity to be better than we were when it comes to educational achievement."

>> governor gary herbert, the republican governor of utah, the vice chair of the national governor's association. governor i wanted to get your thoughts on the conviction -- the sentencing that came down yesterday for the former virginia governor robert mcdonald. >> well, it's a tragedy any way you look at it. i knew bob very well and i thought he was a very fine man. and politics sometimes you can get trapped into and sucked into thinking something is inconsequential becomes a really big thing and bob was a very talented person and at least all the governance i saw and his involvement with the national governs' association, the republican governor's situation, he was stellar. i wish them well he and his wife. i think knowing bob and maureen i think they're good people at heart and made bad judgmental errors. >> this will foster discussion at the nga about disclosing

gifts and people like yourself, whether you receive? >> these kind of events give people pause and make sure that we're not crossing over the line. campaign financial disclosures, what kind of gift you can take. i know in utah we have an ethical aspect of what we can do. you can't take sports tickets. you can't take more than a $50 gift. it has to be disclosed. can't have more than $10 for a meal if somebody takes you to lunch. so there's some parameters out there to help keep us on the straight and narrow path. it's a difficult issue and every state needs to find their own way. we need to raise bar and we need to expect more and we do expect more from our elected officials and that's appropriate. so we should have a higher standard for elected officials. will will help prompt a discussion and make sure we raise that bar, which is really what the taxpayers want. they want to trust our elected officials to do the right thing and not be somehow be holding to

some special interest out there that's -- i don't know whether you call it a bribe or incentive to do something that would be otherwise inappropriate. >> before we let you go, a little bit about the house's new member from utah, mia love. >> yes. >> have you had a chance to talk to her before today? >> i have. i, in fact, went to a little reception she had monday evening. i've known mia for a long time. when i was a county commissioner before i became governor i incorporated the city she became the mayor called saratoga springs. so she used to call me up and say "hey, your baby that you've created needs a little help." so she became the mayor. she's first on the city council. i got to know her in that capacity she's a wonderful personality. just has great potential and she will be a great addition to the congress. she's going to represent us well in the state of utah. we're excited by this great new opportunity for her. >> the governor currently serves as the vice chair and will become the chair when? >> next summer.

that's when the changing of the guard takes place and, again, governors are really maching it happen out there. look to the states, look to the governors. i think we're the best hope for america to turn this whole thing around and make sure we're on the right road going in the right direction. >> thank you very much for your time. >> we're waiting to take you to michigan for remarks by president obama. he'll be speaking at a ford assembly plant in suburban detroit this afternoon to employees there. he'll be talking about the state of the auto industry. it's the first stop of the president's travel this week. he's scheduled to be in phoenix tomorrow talking about the housing market and he'll make two stops in tennessee, focusing on college affordability. again, the president from suburban detroit coming up in just a few minutes live here on c-span 3. in the meantime. there are today's washington journal. he serves as the first district which covers camden,

wood bury, good morning to you. >> good morning, how are you? >> fine, thank you. the folks that don't know you, give a it will about your history. how did you end up where you are? >> i started my career as an electrician working up and down the delaware river refineries and became involved with the labor unions and was a representative out of the ibew for close to 20 years. then i had an opportunity to run for the assembly which i did so quickly moved into the senate where i've served the last five and a half years until the announcement of congressman rob andrews was retiring and we jumped in. >> and so as far as the way you view things, how would you view yourself or at least describe yourself politically to people? >> i like to say i'm middle earth. certainly when it comes to spending other people's money and taxpayers' money i feel that i'm -- the conservative side, but

certainly i'm concerned about jobs. as my original capacity, i was invested in workers. my original capacity working in trenton for the past five and a half years. they're concerned. they want their kids to have the opportunities they did and they want to be able to go to work. >> so as issues facing this congress is concerned, even as of friday, one of the first votes you'll take part in is that of the keystone xl pipeline. where do you stand on that? >> i have been in favor of the pipeline for a number of reasons. number one safety. number two, it is about bringing jobs and making sure american-made energy is on the forefront. not too many of us remember, but the odd/even days of gasoline really creates a nightmare to many people remembering that. and here we are now, the world's largest energy producer. we need to take advantage of that. >> as far as the white house signaling the concerns about it possibly veto of it, your

thoughts on that? >> the president will make his decision based on what ends up on his desk but i'm in favor of making sure we move this forward. is it perfect? absolutely not. the eminent domain issues are among others are of great concern to me. as a whole i'm in favor. >> we asked our viewers earlier about common ground possibly between the white house and the congress. talk about common ground possibly between republicans and democrats in the house specifically. what are areas aside from jobs that you might find some favor in, at least agree on? >> well i think that's important. my history in trenton over the last five and a half years was working across lines and i did that rather successfully with a number of major issues. last night we were at the speakers' event at the library of congress making sure that we were reaching out across the aisle. there's a new congress just north of me, tom mcarthur who he and i have a very good working relationship as do we

congressman lobiondo who's just to the south. i've had relationships with them over the last 20 years congressman lobe i don't knowbeyond doe. >> our guest newly minted of the 114th congress representative donald norcross of new jersey. if you want to ask him questions, here's your chance to do so. 202-748-800. democrats 202-748-8001 for republicans. you can send your comments on twitter. brenda from beach island, south carolina, republican line, hello, go ahead. >> caller: hi. i worked my whole life. started out when i was 15 on co-op and went to school a half day and worked half a day and worked up until i was 48 years old and ended up on social security disability. and they have a 24-month waiting

period before you qualify for medicare or insurance. and when you go to obamacare you don't qualify for that at all because you don't pay taxes. so you're there are a position where you need health care and there's nowhere or anything available to get it. >> well certainly your plight is one that we can all feel for you. one of the major issues that -- and i found out whether it was my first year in trenton or finding out as we work here in washington, d.c. is that regulation by itself didn't happen accidentally. it seems time after time time after time people who are trying to game the system -- which clearly you aren't -- they have to set up these set of rules to go go through to block out those who are trying to take advantage of the system. the system is designed to help people like yourselves get through it. however, in order to make sure that taxpayers' money is well spent they have to set up these

steps to make sure that nobody is gaming the system. certainly i would encourage you to reach out to your local representative to see if he can help ease some of the burden in trying to get the paperwork in. >> houston texas, robert. democrats' line. hello. >> caller: good morning and good morning to both of you. the reason i called in was that the representative talked about being in favor of the keystone xl pipeline and what i would like to say is that being a former plant manager of a chemical plant i'm well aware of the importance of pipelines. but in this particular case we are -- we are going to construct the wrong pipeline in the wrong

place to carry the wrong crude oil. what we should be doing is building a pipeline to carry crude oil from the dakotas to the same point in the midwest that the xl pipeline is set up to carry canadian oil and both of these -- both of these oils are actually in abundance and would be available for a sale worldwide. >> will, it's certainly free enterprise and the route, which has been debate -- under debate for so many years will never change people's mind who are against this. but when we look at the tanker cars, i live a major

metropolitan area where we have the old cracks that run right through the middle of the city carrying this oil. certainly if we can put this oil in pipelines by most measurements, most people believe it's a safer way of doing it. when it comes to which oil obviously there's pipelines running throughout the entire country. most people done know which lines are running there. just an additional line that will help bring that commerce to the united states and bring more energy to the world. >> cherry hill, new jersey, republican line, charles, hello. >> welcome, cherry hill. >> caller: good morning, don. i used to be in district three and was moved over with the redistricting, now i'm in district one, your district. and i used to enjoy john adler's town hall meetings and i wonder what your position is on that. >> it's great that you're asking

that. we are actively putting together the greater town hall meeting, but we'll do it a little differently. we'll have the federal government, obviously myself being there we'll bring in our state representatives, the county and the local so we can make sure that that this is a seamless message that's coming across so when you ask a question we can't say "that's a state issue." so we hope to start those before the end of the month. >> the governor has just been elected the freshman representative for the democrats. tell us about this job. >> well -- which job? >> freshman representative for policy issues. >> oh, myself, i'm sorry. i didn't understand the question. yes policy and steering which is helping to direct obviously the issues that are most concerned to us up on the hill and i think i can bring a lot of the reality to this again up until six weeks ago my job was to find

jobs for electricians, south jersey. i know firsthand the pain that the men and women are going through in our district when they don't have a job. you give somebody a job who can provide for their family, it literally changes their life. and when that opportunity isn't there it is a very sad day. what are the details? how often do you meet with other policy members? >> we're weekly -- it's much more during the last six weeks of the last congress we were going through a number of issues. there was a ranking committee campaign that was going for energy and commerce that we were meeting on a daily basis but at the end of the day we all came together behind congressman frank of new jersey and as we're moving into the new congress it's rabbit committee assignments and making sure that we're listening to our colleagues. >> have you been assigned a committee? >> we're waiting to hear that literal

literally today. it's a dee dimensional chess board. >> where would you like to serve if you had your choice? >> i have made it clear that i think i can be very fortunate in helping the military bases in new jersey. i know your family is form from the fort dix area so arms services and would like to spend time on work force and education. >> representative donald norcross of new jersey. catherine, north conway new hampshire, independent line. hi there. oh, let me push the button. catherine, go ahead, i'm sorry. >> caller: i have very, very short three comments. the first is -- that should be on the democratic agenda, no keystone pipeline, no fracking. that's first. secondly democrats should be asking more questions. could bit that the oil companies are, in fact in favor and gleeful of global warming and

thwarting efforts to stop it for with the arctic ice melting and opening up the area to drilling means money in their pockets. thirdly, we have to get more creative, the democrats. if poppies grow in afghanistan soil better than wheat and bring in more cash and they can grow two crops of poppies during the growing season. how come other uses for poppies than heroin aren't in the works? we should be figuring out how perhaps you can grind up the stalks to make paper products cement, or pave something. we have to ask questions, become more creative and not do things to harm our environment. >> well, thank you for the call, certainly. woe all care very much for the environment. and it's always a balance

between those who want to enjoy the ability to drive their cars, heat their homes with the energy that we presently have or the options on the other side of the coin is where do we meet in the middle? i was part of a group in new jersey called the work environment council which is trying to bring together making sure people had opportunities for employment while making our consideration for the environment very high level and that we try to blend those two together because they're not always the same direction. >> brad from minnesota, democrats' line. you are next, good morning. >> caller: hello. >> you're on go ahead. >> caller: oh, okay. my question to him is this. why do have all atheists on your show? and the other thing i have to say to you, we're deindustrialized. you don't hear about los angeles

anymore being smog. it's in china. the other question i got for you is i'm a veteran why in minnesota is a goddamn veteran home being run by a wiccan? >> well certainly i want to thank you for your service to our country as a veteran and i'm not sure of the issue you're talking about in minnesota but again as i mentioned earlier, make sure you reach out to your local representatives. i'm sure they can address the issue. >> ray off of twitter says he spoke with congressman lobe i don't know doe about -- lobe beyond doe about trade issues. should the u.s. be doing more trade? >> yes, but it has to be done fairly. it's not free trade it's fair trade and if we go back to the nafta which i think has set the stage for many of the agreements since then, i knew too many people who grew displaced because of those agreements and

i think that it needs to be fair trade obviously most countries, particularly in the middle east -- sorry, in the far east are paying their employees much less so it's not just about dollars but it's about conditions they're working in. we've seen these sweat shots time and time again where the collapses have come in because they're not enforcing the type of rules that we have in this country. as long as we have a fair plague ground, that's really what people care about. is it fair? i don't have to win every time. i just need to know it's a fair shot. that should govern our trade policy. >> so the trade policy being considered for the asian area of the world. is that fair in your estimation? >> no. i'm not going to mix words. no i don't think it's fair. >> why? >> well, there's a number of issues there. this goes back to -- again, i mentioned earlier because that set the stage for all the agreement we've had since then. so if we're not playing by the

same set of rules, whether it's environmental issues making sure they're not clogging the air with the coal that comes out of particularly in china. we were visiting taiwan and the earlier caller was talking about what other parts of the world are doing. literally. the wind blows over, so china along their coast blows into their neighboring country. well, that's a problem. whether it's trained in dealing with employment issues which is extremely important, making sure no child is working or being forced to work if if we level the playing field make sure that the enforcement of environmental rules make sure enforcement of work rules to make sure we're not ebb slaving these folks, particularly in third world countries then it becomes a much fairer issue. >> here is tim from kansas city, republican line. hi.

>> caller: good morning sir. my question is on -- what's your view point on the fact of illegal immigrants in this country? we're spending literally probably hundreds of billions of dollar dollars feeding these people, giving them housing, giving them everything and they're not even citizens. they don't belong here. >> well, with all due respect, these people are us. in fact, if we had the rules in place that we do today a century ago i would say most of us wouldn't even be sitting here. the fact is we need to have an immigration policy that works for all americans. i just want to share one example why i think this is so important. my son met a young lady when he was serving in south korea who was serving in the army. they were married, they had my first grandchild. >> we leave this recorded portion of washington journal to take you live now to a ford

assembly plant in suburban detroit for remarks by president obama to employees there. this is live coverage on c-span 3. >> thank you, everybody. give mia a big round of applause for that outstanding introduction. well, hello, michigan. happy new year to everybody. what was that? i love you back. [ laughter ] i want to thank all the outstanding leaders that we have here today i want to introduce some of them. we have secretary of labor tom perez here. [ applause ] we've got detroit mayor mike duggan here. [ cheers and applause ]

senator gary peters is in the house. [ applause ] congresswoman debbie dingle is here. [ cheers and applause ] your outstanding ceo mark fields is here. [ cheers and applause ] now i have to say i love secret service, i love the beasts they put me in. that's what i call the cars i drive in the beasts. so i like my ride these days and it was made in michigan, too. [ applause ] but i just had a chance to look at these new mustangs and i've got to say that the mustangs had a little more style. a little more flavor. bill ford is in the house. [ applause ]

surprisingly enough. we talked a little bit about sunday. [ laughter ] now, listen, i'm a bears fan. [ applause ] laugh you beat us twice. but even a bears fan has to admit that that was a little suspect. [ cheers and applause ] i have never seen anything like that before. i would have been pretty irritated. were you irritated? oh yes. but all i can say, because i'm used to saying this i'm a bears fan, there's always next year. [ laughter ] and look you've got a lot to be hopeful for. first of all, you have one of the best defenses in the league. [ applause ] fine young quarter back,

megatron. and if there's one thing that you can take to the bank when talking about detroit is that detroit always comes back. [ cheers and applause ] detroit always comes back. and that's why i'm here today. one of my new year's resolutions is to make sure that more americans in wayne more americans in michigan more americans all across this great company, that everybody feels like they're coming back. and there is no doubt thanks to the steps that we took early on to rescue our economy and to rebuild it on a new foundation we are entering into the new year with new confidence that america is coming back.

[ applause ] now you don't have to take my word for it. the facts are the facts. and let's face it, a lot of times the media doesn't like reporting on good news. but every once in a while it's important for us to hear some good news not to make us complacent but to give us dhafs if we work harder we can make even more good news so here's how we begin this year. last year, 2014 was the strongest year for job growth since the 1990s. [ cheers and applause ] since the 1990s. we've now had a 57 month streak

of private job sector creation. we've created nearly 11 million new jobs. that's the longest stretch in our history of private sector uninterrupted job creation. [ applause ] here's another way of thinking about it. since 2010 we, america, have put more people back to work than europe japan and every other advanced economy combined. combined. [ applause ] and let me tell you what's leading the way -- american manufacturing. after a decade of decline, american manufacturing is in its best stretch of job growth since the 1990s. here in michigan, manufacturers have created more than 100,000 jobs. helps to cut your unemployment rate in half.

so we're making more stuff we're selling it around the world, america's the number-one producer of oil, the number-one producer of gas. it's helping to save drivers about $1.10 a gallon at the pump over this time last year. [ cheers and applause ] and the cars that you make help everybody go a little bit further on that gallon of gas. thanks to the affordable care act, also known as obamacare about ten million americans gained health insurance just over this last year. [ applause ] we've cut our deficits by about two-thirds. i'd like people to think about that, because when they do surveys of like ordinary folks on the street and they ask them "are the deficits going up or are they coming down?"

everybody automatically assumes well the government is spending and deficits must be going up. deficits have come down by two-thirds since i took office. [ cheers and applause ] by two-thirds. they're going down. after 13 long years our war in afghanistan has come to a responsible end which means more of our brave troops have come home and spent time with their families during the holidays. [ applause ] so the point is we're moving. the years have been tough, demanded hard work, demanded sacrifice on everybody's part. you guys know that more than most. which means as a country we have every right to be proud of what we've got to show for all that hard work. america's resurgence is real. don't let anybody tell you otherwise. we've got the best cards and we

are doing better than just about anybody else on earth. and now that we've got some calmer waters, now that the worst of the crisis is behind us, if we all do our part, if we all pitch in then we can make sure that this rising tide is actually lifting all the boats not just some. we can make sure the middle-class is the engine that powers american prosperity for decades to come. and that will be the focus of my state of the union address in a couple of weeks. building on the progress that we've already made. but i've got to admit i only have two years left in office i didn't want to wait for the state of the union to talk about the things that make this country great and how we can make it better so i thought i'd get started this week. clap clp i fig-- i figured why wait.

it's like opening christmas presents a little early. so today i'm in detroit, going to talk about the incredible things that have happened in the auto industry and what more we can do in manufacturing. tomorrow i'll visit arizona, a state that was hit about as hard as anybody by the housing crisis, because we want to talk about how we're making homeownership a reality for more middle-class families. on friday i'm going to go to tennessee, a state making big strides in education, to show how we can help every american get the education they need to get ahead in this new economy. but today i wanted to come here to michigan because this state proves no matter how tough times get americans are tough. [ applause ] plus i wanted to see the new mustang. now, just -- let's just take a minute and think about what you've had to fight through.

a few years ago nearly one in five autoworkers got a punch in the gut with a pink slip. the year before i took office 400,000 jobs vanished in this industry. 400,000. sales plunged 40%. then as the financial crisis built we faced what once seemed unimaginable, which is two of the big three -- gm and chrysler -- were on the brink of failure. this was the heart beat of american manufacturing right here and it was flat lining. we had a choice to make. we could have kept giving billions of tack tax pay-- taxpayer dollars to the auto industry without asking for anything in

return but that would have kicked the problem down the road. we could have done nothing but think about what would have meant for the country. the suppliers, the distributors the communities that depend on the workers who patronize the restaurants and shop on the stores, all those companies would have gone under also. and, look, the fact is nobody was in a stronger position than ford bill and his team had done a great job steering ford through tough times but bill and others are the first to admit that you could have had a cascading effect if the whole supply chain in the u.s. auto industry started declining, then ford could have gone under too. plants would have shuttered, we would have lost this iconic industry, sold for scraps. and folks like you, the men and women who built these companies

with your hands would have been left hanging out to dry. and the communities you depended on, the school teachers, small business owners servers in the diner -- and, let's face it the bar keep -- [ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] i'm just saying. are you a bar keep or are you just waving at me? [ laughter ] but everybody would have been affected. their jobs were at stake, too. and it's more than that. the jobs in the auto industry have always been about more than a paycheck. they're a source of pride for generations. it was representative of what it meant to get in the middle-class. you work hard in this job, you can afford to raise a family buy a house, go on vacation, retire with some dignity. you knew you were making something that people could

count on. you know, it meant something. every car you sent off the line brought you that step closer to doing the right thing by your family and giving something to your kids. and having a sense of security inp so plants like this one built more than just cars, they built the middle-class in this country and that was worth fighting for. [ cheers and applause ] so in exchange for the help we demanded responsibility. plants retooled plants restructured, labor and management worked together settled their difference everybody put some skin in the game, everybody made some sacrifices, it wasn't just some, it wasn't just the workers who

gave something up. everybody. and that's how things work best by the way, when everybody's in it. when workers and businesses work together. when whoever's in the board room and folks on the floor they both understand they're in it together. and we believe that america's best when everybody's in it together. and we rejected the false choice that either unions or businesses could succeed but not both. we said, you know what? what's going to work for the company is also going to work for that worker. and vice versa, which means when the company is doing better, than the worker has to get their share as well. [ cheers and applause ] and ford rejected the false choice that they could either take care of their shareholder or take care of their worker. they did both. and the company benefitted and america benefitted.

we believed in shared sacrifice and that shared sacrifice leads to shared prosperity. now, i've got to tell you i was talking to the detroit news, they were asking "what was it like when you were making this decision?" i just want everybody to clear. it was not popular. [ laughter ] even in michigan it wasn't popular. i remember they did a poll in michigan and it was like only 10% were in favor. and, you know you don't have to be a genius political analyst to say 10% is not very high. and, look it wasn't on my to-do list when i know i ran for president. i wasn't expecting to have to do this. but i ran not to be just doing the popular things, i ran not just to do the easy things, i ran to do the right thing and saving the american auto industry was the right thing to do. betting on you was the right thing to do.

it was the right thing to do. and that bet has paid off for america because the mesh auto industry is back. [ cheers and applause ] now, part of the reason that we wanted to start this trip here is not just because i want to see the new mustang, not just because the american auto industry is back but because last month we actually marked a milestone. last month the rescue of the auto industry officially came to an end. the auto companies have now repaid taxpayers every dime and more of what my administration invested in you. [ cheers and applause ] you paid the taxpayers back. with your hard work. with your dedication.

and over the pastive if years, this industry created about 500,000 new jobs. last year, american autoworkers churned out cars faster than any year since 2005. ford has brought jobs back from mexico mexico. [ cheers and applause ] created nearly 24,000 new jobs across this country including 1,800 new jobs right here in this plant. [ cheers and applause ] and after more than a century since henry ford introduced the moving assembly line, you're reinventing it. one production line for gas, electric hybrid plug-in vehicles. this is the first right here in wane wayne, michigan. [ cheers and applause ] first in the world. that's always cool when you do

something first. and you're helping rebuild the middle class for the 21st century. just down the road in lincoln park uaw ford joint apprenticeship program is providing workers with handon training in the skills that employers need for the jobs of tomorrow. and nationally, by the way, 87% of all apprentices are employed after their complete their apprenticeship program with an average starting wage of $50,000. so the more folks we get in apprenticeships, the more folks are getting middle-class jobs. that's why i called on last year for businesses across the country to create more and expand more apprenticeship programs. and since then we've seen the largest increase in apprenticeships in nearly a decade. and now my administration is investing $100 million in an american apprenticeship grant competition. we want young people to see that

they have opportunities. they don't have all to go to a four-year college, they can get an apprenticeship, save some money, start working. [ cheers and applause ] build a family buy a home. get some lions tickets. [ laughter ] because everybody came together here and worked together. folks are better off and some of the most high-tech fuel-efficient high-powered heart-pounding good-looking well-designed fuel-efficient cars in the world are once again designed engineered forged and built not in europe, not in asia, right here in the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] right here in america.

so because of you, manufacturing has a future in this country. manufacturing has actually grown faster than other parts of the economy. and companies are now saying you know what? we have to get back to america. we have to relocate we were offshore and now they're saying uh-oh, america's back, we better get back in there. and that means because of you the middle-class has a future in this country. and the auto industry has proved that any comeback is possible. and, by the way, so has motor city. [ applause ] so has motor city. a year and a half ago, detroit became the largest city ever to file for bankruptcy. today under the leadership of mayor duggan detroit is charting a new course, businesses and private investors are making big investments, including ford which is helping to launch a

tech startup inge baiter downtown, new restaurants and stores are popping up. residents are securing abandoned homes, cleaning up neglected neighborhoods. we're seeing stories of young people who left town for other opportunities, didn't they they could make it here and now they're saying you know what? maybe i want to get back to detroit. hoping to be part of the rebirth of this city. now, this city still faces big challenges but you're coming back, just like the auto industry is going to have to continue to come up with new ideas and new designs and address competition. it never stops. we've got to stay hungry. we can't be complacent. just like america's got to still keep on working. just like the lions got to still come up with a little more work. [ laughter and applause ]

we're coming back. one thing is for sure, we may not all root for the lions but america is rooting for detroit. [ cheers and applause ] america is rooting for detroit. we want the motor city strong and behind the stories of plants and cities and economic data it's people. it's all of you. so i'll just close with a story of a gay named ramon because we're rooting for guys like ramon. ramon spent ramon spent eight years in the military. served in afghanistan, served in iraq. ramon here? raise your hand, ramon. [ cheers and applause ]

so ramon is someone who fought for our security and freedom. sometimes we give lip service to supporting our troops but then when they come home they get lost. so when ramon came home he had a hard time finding a job because it was a tough economy. he moved into a homeless shelter, took whatever work he could get. and then one day in 2012 al v.a. counselor that he'd been working withed him an application from ford. >> ford was hiring for new shifts. imagine what ramon felt the day he knocked on his grandpa's door, his grandfather who spent

25 years building mustangs in dearborn and ramon was able to tell his grandfather he got a job at ford. and now ramon's got his own place and now ramon's got a good job right on the line here in wayne. and everyday he's doing just what his grandfather did if you want to know what america is about, about grit and determination and hard work and sacrifice and looking out for one another and not giving up, think about ramon. think about the midwest, think about michigan think about america. when our assembly lines grind to a halt we don't give up. we get up we fight back we come back stronger than before thanks for the hard work of people like you.

i'll be on your side every step of the way. thank you, michigan. god bless you and god bless america. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ thunder's rolling down this truck, you don't know ♪ where you're going now but you know you won't be back ♪ ♪

♪ we'll take what we can carry, yeah we'll leave the rest ♪ well, big wheels roll through where sunrise streams ♪ big wheel ss land of hope and dreams ♪ ♪ ride willing proi will provide for you and i'll stand by your side ♪ you'll be a good companion now

for this part of the ride ♪ ♪ yeah leave behind your sorrows and let this day be the last ♪ well tomorrow they there will be sunshine ♪ and all this darkness passed, we'll be wheels rolling ♪ in fields where sunrise streams ♪ meet me in the land of hope and dreams ♪ ♪ well, this train, this train

carries roses ♪ this train carries hoards of gamblers ♪ this train carries lost souls, this train ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> president obama in michigan today at the ford michigan assembly plant in wayne. talking to employees there about the state of the auto industry. the first stop of the president's travels this week. he will be in phoenix this week and then will make a couple of stops in tennessee focusing on college affordability. earlier today at the white house the president condemned the

terrorist attack in paris calling it an attack on our free press. politico reporting this way, president barack obama fiercely defended the virtues of free expression following a shooting spree wednesday. a sharp contrast to his more tepid responses in the past. continueroversyies have repeatedly drawn in obama during his presidency ranging from the role of an anti-islam movie to burning of korans to avoidance of the term islamic extremism. it has prompted criticism from republicans by arguing that the president is reluctant to champion american values and by championing the policy.

again that is from politico today. we will have the remarks on that attack in paris as well as french president's remarks at 8:00 eastern on c-span. and sunday afternoon at 1:00 part ofbook tv's college series. and on american history tv on c-span 3 saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. anderson university processor uses abraham lincoln's life to understand views of white americans on race and slavery both before and during the civil

war. and then a discussion with birth control advocate, her legacy and the impact race social class and politics had. find out more and let us know what you think about the programs you're watching. e-mail us or send us a tweet. join the c-span conversation. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> now it's a look at some unique photographs of rocket and space shuttle launches as well as neil armstrong's funeral. here is more about bill ingalls from the explorer's club in new york city which organized this conference on space travelers. >> good afternoon. bill ingalls has been a

professional photographer for over 27 years and has heard as the senior contract survivor photographer or nasa since 1989. he has traveled the world. assignments have taken him from the kennedy space center to the inside of an active volcano in alaska, oval office, inside of a dc8. his photographs have appeared in national geographic, newsweek, time, the washington post, fortune, people, the los angeles times. bill is recognized amongst his peers for capturing some of our countries historic moments, including the first launch of a u.s. citizen on a rush and rocket, jfk junior's life is it to the white house, and the burial at sea of neil armstrong. he is only the second

photographer ever to receive the prestigious national space club press award. the award was first given to edward armour murrow. it is my pleasure to introduce him to you this afternoon. ladies and gentlemen, mr. bill ingalls. [applause] >> no break? good lord. thank you. i want to thank stacy and the explorers club. this is an honor for me to be here today. i just don't feel like i am worthy of it, but happy to show slides. i am not comfortable being on camera. i apologize to those on c-span. i am real sorry. the rest of you here -- i was

not sure how to put this together. i was usher who the audience would be, and what to focus on, pardon the pun. it is a portfolio of sorts. way too many pictures. feel free to get up and leave, tweet, and check your e-mail. that's me. i'm in charge. i don't do this often, as you can tell. this is my predecessor. he was the first senior photographer for nasa. you will note the pall mall cigarettes in the right hand, the leica camera, the sunglasses on, whiskey drinking, cussing, hell of a photographer. i am doing everything i can to live up to his standards. he was with the crew from the beginning of the apollo project. he went through all their training together.

he did all of their around the world victory marches. i was fortunate enough to get to know him, spend a few years with him before he passed on. this is some of his work. he set the bar pretty high. this is the apollo 11 crew. i came onto nasa as an intern in television. i was a writer and a producer and spent the summer and nasa headquarters and i also did freelance photography. i went on to teach television at the university of pittsburgh. i called nasa every day and begged for a job. i think they got so sick of me calling that they gave me an office pit we will hear less from him. my boss gave me the option. he said that this position that bill had had had gone away and there were other agency photographers who had started to pick up at the very centers. i could either revitalize that or work and be a photo researcher in their office.

both are great jobs. i definitely wanted to try to revitalize this position as best i could. i still have his original cameras in my office. they all have stories. we don't have all day. i will keep marching on. this is at the kennedy space center, which is also a wildlife refuge. there are quiet a bit of wildlife there. i also spent a lot of time in washington, where there is loud -- wildlife as well. this is kennedy space center and some of my shuttle related work that i've done there. this is on the transporter with the space shuttle on its last final role to the launchpad. these are workers and their families invited to the along the entire route to say goodbye to the shuttle program. again, i take my job -- i am silly. i have a lot of fun.

i work hard. i take it very seriously. i am no -- i know i have been given a privileged position to be on this, to be the eyes and ears for others that cannot be there. i take it very seriously. this is on that crawler transporter. this is charlie bolden shaking hands with workers as were writing the transporter out to the pad. of course, the shuttle lift up at night. i had to get a lightning shot in their, too. you will see a common theme throughout my images. if there is a puddle, i would use it. here is the first one.