keystone xl debate and move on to other things. >> take us back over to the house, mike, border security bill is coming up we think on wednesday and of course, there are plenty of battle lines drawn with that one. what's it all about? >> it's mostly all about obama's executive action on deportation, but you made right after the election. mike mccall is the chairman of the homeland security committee and the last time he had gotten together with annie thompson the rapging member of that committee, they crafted a border security bill to pass unanimously through that committee, so, there was cooperation then and then i think that obama's executive action has just really, really angered the republicans. they see it as an abuse of his power and so, mcconnell's first response was to write his own border security bill without democratic input and it's designed to block all pretty much all illegal immigration

within five years. it's called operational control is the term they're using for it and it would penalize political appointees if they don't meet those goals. it's not going to go very far. the house will pass it this week. you know the it's contingent on both sides. jay johnson, the head of the homeland security department has said it's extreme. unworkable. these are not goals that we can meet, so the democrats hate it. interestedly, a lot of conservatives don't like it either. senator jeff sessions saying that the mccall bill is terrible and the question mark is for boehner and the republicans is that conservative opposition going to reach a point they can't get 218 votes on the republican side to pass this thing, so immigration has always been a tough issue for

republicans and boehner and it's going to be a test for this week to see how well they can manage their conference going into this new congress. they have more seats, but do they have more power is the question. and that's going to be an interesting vote on wednesday. >> one more item before we let you go, move on with our phone calls. there's confirmation hearings set this week back on the senate side for the attorney general nominee. lor loretta lynch. tell us what you're expecting there? >>. >> that's right. lynch will testify on wednesday and then outside witnesses yet unnamed will testify on thursday. she is not a controversial nominee. she's widely expected to be confirmed and kind of been paving the way for this, harry reid allowed hearings to happen under a republican-controlled senate. he could have done it in december. he passed on that. i think republicans reck nice and appreciate that. that will kind of ease the

process. but there are a lot of outstanding issues that she's going to get grilled on. eric holder, the current attorney general, very confrontational with the gop. you remember he was held in contempt the first time in history of the countyry that a sitting cabinet member was held in contempt of congress and that was over the fast and furious gun running program. you're going to look for questions about police tactics, law enforcement reform, very generally in the wake of the michael brown killing in ferguson and the eric gardner killing in staten island. a lot of cyber attack questions that she'll probably get because of all these hacking issues. and then you know terrorist threats. home grown terrorism in the wake of certainly, of france. so, a lot of issues, again, she will be confirmed, but not without a lot of questioning and we look for a long day of questioning on wednesday. >> thank you, congressional

reporter for the hill. we appreciate your time in understanding all the issues at hand. >> thanks for having me. >> the border security bill is scheduled to be on the house floor on wednesday. the house rules committee meets today to mark up that bill. we'll have live coverage of the mark up here on cspan 3. also live later this week, the confirmation hearing for president obama's nominee to be the next attorney general, loretta lynch, currently the u.s. attorney for the eastern district of new york, scheduled to testify before the senate judiciary committee. wednesday, 10:00 a.m. eastern. >> with live coverage of the u.s. house on cspan here on cspan 3, we compliment that coverage by showing you the most relevant hearings and public affairs events then on weekend weekends, with programs that tell our nation's story. the civil war's 150th anniversary, visiting

battlefield battlefields and key events. american artifacts, touring museums and historic sites to discover what artifacts reveal about america's past. history book shelf. the presidency, looking at the policies and legacies of our nation's commanders in chief. lectures in history with top college professors delving into america's past and our new series, real america, featuring educational films from the 1930s through the '70s. created by the cable tv industry and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. watch in hd like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. now, west virginia earl ray tomblin delivers his first state of the first address but his first since republicans gained control of the legislature. this is 45 minutes.

>> thank you please be seated. mr. speaker. mr. president, members of the legislature. members of the board of public works. justices of the supreme court of appeals. members of congress. distinguished guests of my fellow west virginians. 40 years ago on a night much like tonight, i joined my fellow legislate tors in this beautiful chamber as a young man and a recent college graduate, just elected to the house of delegates. have wondered what i got myself into. armed with little more than a fresh perspective and a passion to make my home state the best it could be, i was eager to take on the challenges i knew we faced as a state.

on my first trip down the hall to the supply room to pick up my pens and papers and folders, i was stopped by the house clerk. he wanted to know who the supplies were for and i said well, they're for me. and he responded, well, who are you? and i said, well, i'm the new delegate from logan county. and he went, oh. so, i was not a page. just wanted to make that clear. i imagine my motions and expectations were not unlike our state's and our nation's youngest lawmaker, sarah blair, who finds herself -- who finds herself in the chamber as a member of the majority, working with the governor of the opposite party just as i did 40 years ago.

now, as many of you know that governor was r.j. moore jr. tonight, our thoughts and prayers continue to be with senator capito and her family as they mourn his passing. as governor moore once welcomed me tonight, i welcome delegate blair and all the new faces in this chamber. i'm confident we all share the same goal. and that goal being putting west virginia first and making it the greatest place it can be. serving her state and people comes with great responsibility. we must work together. not as democrats or republicans, but as west virginians united for the common good. this is west virginia, not

washington. and we work together to meet the challenges we face as a state. through the years, i'm proud of the great progress we have made together. we have improved our business climate. watched meaningful reforms to our education system, addressed our long time liabilities and cut taxes for working families and small businesses. just two weeks ago, we eliminate eliminated our state's business franchise tax. not only encouraging employers to continue to invest in our state, but eliminating extra paper work that made it more difficult to do business here. eliminating the business franchise tax is just wup of the recent steps we have taken to

responsible responsibly reduce taxes. these continue to -- in west virginia jobs. but as i speak to the newest e members of this legislature and i know that we've got more than a few of those, several of you up there. i'm sure that you're aware this is not the only or the last hurdle we face to improve our state's business climd. nearly four decades ago, our state was in danger of having the heat turned off in the governor's mansion because we couldn't pay our bills. we owed billions of dollars in unfunded pension liabilities. our credit rating was quickly approaching junk bond status. our residents waited months to receive their tax refunds and doctors weren't being paid for treated patients. while we can agree there are challenges still ahead, the state of our state is is much different. much better than before.

we have one of the strongest rainy day funds in the country. we are credited for being one of the most fiscally responsible states in the nation. our bond ratings were recently reaffirmed. a move that saves taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars when building schools roads and making long-term investments to improve our infrastructure. we accomplished these things together. we've reformed our worker's compensation system. so businesses operating here paid more reasonable insurance rates and hard working west virginia virginians receive the benefits they deserve in a timely manner. a total of more than $280 million in savings since 2005.

we've worked together to make tough decision ises and next year will pay off the remaining debt from the old fund. we have come too far and worked too hard to come back on the commitments we made several years ago. we accomplished these things together. in the early 2000s, doctors were threatening to leave the state because of slow payments and unreasonable medical malpractice insurance premiums. we reformed our legal system and created the west virginia mutual insurance company, which serves as a model for states across the country, providing physicians with good coverage at reasonable rates. we accomplished these things together. and just three years ago we rolled up our sleeves to tackle our state's debt.

while other states were only talking about eliminating debt relateded to other benefit, we took bold actions. we were the first state in the country to address the concerns of local officials who were terrified of bankruptcy. and we found a way to pay it down in a fiscally responsible manner. because of these steps, our state's $5 billion debt will be paid off without any tax increases. ladies and gentlemen, we accomplished this together. responsible actions like worker's composition reform, medical malpractice reform and gradual reductions in business and consumer taxes helped west virginia employers protect our

residents and our critical to our continued economic growth. we've worked together to make significant changes to improve our state's legal system and i resent those who irresponsibly label us as a judicial hell hole, unreasonable and irrational labels drummed up by out of state interests to do help our efforts to engage potential investors and strengthen our economy. there's always more work to be adobe done and together, we can get a reasonable, responsible reforms to our legal system. we have worked hard to create an environment that allows us to compete for new and expanding businesses. projects like diamond electric, which recently relocated its

north american headquarters to putnam county. american wood mark, which announced a $30 million expansion in wayne county, which has invested tens of millions of dollars in our state employeeing hundreds of west virginians. we look forward to adding the proposed -- to this impressive and growing list. this november, i traveled to brazil to meet with senior officials from ota branch to review their continued progress and chart our next steps moving forward. this type of project will serve as an anchor for new value added industries and chemical hubs that will be part of a renaissance in america. companies officials are please ed with the progress they have made over the past year and the tremendous welcome they have received from the number of west virginians who have touched this project in one way or another.

and tonight i am more confident than ever this investment will ush ir in an era of unprecedented growth for our entire region. in 2011 we were the first state to pass comprehensive regulation on marcellus shale. we have taken steps to remain at the center of the boom. companies are investing billions in our state to support the processing and transportation of natural gas and create inging a number of new opportunities to develop these rich deposits. this past october, southwestern

energy invested more than $5 billion in west virginia and southwestern pennsylvania to acquire marcellus and utica shale properties. this is one of the largest of its kind, not only in our state, but across the country. tonight, i'd like to welcome home west virginia native and the new general manager of the west virginia operations, derek cutwright and senior vice president of the west virginia division paul giger. please stand so we may recognize you. tens of thousands of our residents are already benefitting from that he has developments and i'm committed to ensuring our state continues to capitalize on this abundant

natural resource and the opportunities it brings. with this in mind, i've directed the department of revenue to launch a comprehensive review of our state's public lands to identify opportunities where west virginia can take advantage of this energy revolution. we have the potential to secure hundreds of millions of dollars in bonus and royalty payments. money moneys that can be vested to improve our state parks, support tourism across the state and finance a number of worthy endeavors to strengthen job creation. for generations west virginia has been one of our nation's leading energy states. as we continue to explore opportunities to diversify our state's energy portfolio, we must ensure the safety of hard working west virginians at drilling sites, production facilities and pipelines across the state. that's why i'm requesting a

study to determine how we can best protect our workers of natural gas operations. we must ensure our workers have proper training and skills to do their jobs in the most effective way possible and return home safely at night. workforce safety must be the expectations for businesses operating in west virginia not an afterthought. economic investments as well as those we are making to improve our infrastructure are important to all of us. but they come at a cost. our state's highways and bridges are critical to our continued economic growth. this year, the division of highways spent an additional $48 million on resurvey is fassing products and bridge work

compared to what was spent in 2013. we are making progress, but we must find ways to do more. with the help of legislation we passed together, our division of highways is now able to use more innovative financing options to build and maintain our roads and bridges and tonight, i've directed the division of highways to include the completion of u.s. 35 as part of its six-year plan. thought perhaps senator hall may like that one. in recent years, inaction has put construction at a standstill. i will continue to work with our congressional delegation to identify a stable federal

funding source for our much needed road improvements. when highway funding is is hard to come by, eliminating more than $85 million in dedicated revenues to maintain our state's highways is irresponsible. this year 84% of all tolls collected on the west virginia turnpike were collected from out of state drivers and commercial vehicles. instead of eliminating tolls we need to work together to identify all terrontive ways to minimize the impact on our residents who travel the turnpike each and every day. we've created a business climate where companies are encouraged to innovate, expand and create new jobs. companies across the country and around the world are noticing the changes we have made. when i became governor three years ago, i made a promise that i would go anywhere and sit down with anyone to bring jobs to the mountain state.

when investors knock on on the door of our office, we say, how can we help you? these strong personal relationships are critical for our state and economy. when companies here have unmet needs, we take action and we must do the same thing for our small business owners who already call our state home. west virginians make great products and we need to make sure entrepreneurs like isabella can continue to succeed. soon after isabella's second son, isaac was born, she and her husband, ray were told by doctors that isaac would have to have low doss l tone and would have low muscle tone and weakness common to children with down's syndrome. like any mom wanting to help, isabella sought a solution.

she took a scrap of cloth and sand from her boy's sand box and created a tiny pair of weights to put on isaac's wrist and ankles to help him develop muscle strength. when the physical therapist saw them, she encouraged her to make them for other children with similar obstacles. in may, isabella launched her company, might thety tykes, making these as part of the 2014 abilities expo in new york city. tonight, we celebrate the spirit of the family. isabella isaac pearson ray, please stand so is we can celebrate your family's achievement.

>> thank you. >> we must encourage the same innovation we ask of all those invested in our state with -- that's why tonight, i am proposal legislation to give our brewers -- together, we can continue to show those across the country, around the world and here at home that west virginia is the right place to make an investment and the mountain state is is a great place to do business. our continues economic growth and the enormous potential that lies ahead place even more urgency on developing a skilled workforce. recent studies show west

virginia will generate 30,000 new jobs each year through 2018 and nearly 60% of those jobs will require at least a two-year degree. these are good paying jobs in the manufacturing, construction and natural gas industries as well as health care and education. since 2007 west virginia's community and technical colleges have developed 133 thu programnew programs specifically taylored toward workforce development and training. many of these partnerships like the appalachain petroleum program training center were created to strengthen our state's growing manufacturing, chemical and natural gas sectors. this entered a joint partnership between -- and the community college is one of only 14 programs of its kind in the whole country. it brings together industry representatives and the ak demcademic

community to equip west virginians with the skills they need to be part of these growing industries. recent investors have identified a critical need for information technology programs to support new and growing industries across the state. blue ridge and bridge valley community and technical colleges answer their call with specialized programs, supported by private sector companies, eager to hire west virginia workers. companies like toyota gestamp and dow chemical recognize the products we've made and are working with us to train west virginia's workforce. the number of students now earning certificate degrees and two-year associate degrees has increased by 57% and that's an accomplishment we can all be proud of.

preparing our workforce doesn't start with community colleges. we are working with middle school and high school students to share the opportunities that await them after graduation. over the past several mobts, i've traveled to a number of schools to meet our students and introduce a new education initiative. it's called my state, my life. it's designed to encourage our students to embrace their bright future here in the mountain state. the west virginia of today is not the same place it was decades ago. we are ushering in an era of change that will provide our students with opportunities for a great life here at home. and classrooms from here to mcdowell, wayne to berkeley counties, there are thousands of

young, bright minds with untapped potential. there are endless possibilities for our stuntss to you can students to succeed and it doesn't mat maer which training or career path they choose, as long as they choose one. as we work to develop these programs, we must expand our vision to prepare more than just the future members of our workforce. we must also support existing workers, especially our state's hard working coal miners. i know times are tough. but let it be cleerksly never stop working against federal regulations that harm our state's efficiency and devastate our miners, families and xhubt communities. last month, we filed comments

relateded to the emission guidelines and urged the epa to consider its proposed plan. federal bureaucrats must understand the plan these new rules will have on families and communities here and across the country. we must work together to develop reasonable achievable goals that balance the environmental protection we all support with economic growth, which we must maintain. while we remain hopeful the epa will consider the effects and regulations are already having on our economy we continue to offer programs to provide coal miners and their families the training they need to explore a different career path if that's the choice they wish to make. bridge valley, new river and southern west virginia community and technical colleges all offer programs to retrain hard working families and their families with the skills they need to succeed.

these accelerated training programs are based on fundamental skills that are valuable, no matter what high demand field or miners may choose. even if they are able to find reemployment underground. no matter how west virginians have been affected by the downturn in our state's energy sector, retraining and job assistance are available. over the past four years workforce west virginia has invested more than $48 million in state and federal funds to retrain displaced workers and their families. today, we continue to prepare these workers for jobs in high demand fields across the state like nursing, education, welding and related industries. as west virginia's military men and women return from serving around the world we stand

together to welcome them home with open arms. we are proud of our state's legacy of serving our country. and we must continue to honor our veterans every chance we get. these men and women aren't just dedicated members of our military, they're also important members of our communities. when they return home, we owe it to them to provide the training they need to succeed. in 2009, my friend and one of our state's silver star recipients james mccormick, came up with an idea to help veterans find transitional job training and meaningful work here at home. last year the legislature passed a bipartisan bill to establish the veterans and warriors to agriculture program which helps our state's veterans provide fresh produce for their families and develop small, working farms across the state. james has dedicated his time and talents to helping our veterans

return to civilian life and transition to careers as farmers and livestock managers. james, please stand so that we may thank you for your service and for your hard work on behalf of the state's veterans. james mccormick. as a former teacher and husband of a college president who's sitting right over there, i understand the importance of a good education. as governor i recognize

improving educational programs and increasing opportunities for our kids and our teachers as fundamental to our state's continued growth and economic success. over the past several year, we have made changes in our classrooms, to put our kids on the right track to a bright future. from touring edgewood elementary school on charleston's west side to celebrating the newly renovated harper's ferry middle school in the eastern panhandle i've had the opportunity to see firsthand the changes we're making to help our students succeed. we are laying the ground work to support our communities and develop futurer leaders of the next generation. as we compete in today's global economy, we must start with our middle school and high school students by providing them with the high-tech skills they need. in 2013, business and industry

in west virginia identified a critical need for workers with strong math technical, computer and mechanical skills. that's why this year, i've set aside funding to establish a stem network to review current stem related education initiatives and refine and expand programs to better serve our students. as we increase and improve stem education opportunities, there will be a need for more certified chemistry, robotics and advanced math teachers in our classrooms. we must ensure our students are being taught by great teachers including those who may not have a traditional education degree. this year i will introduce legislature to expand opportunities for skilled west virginia virginians who have a passion for teaching, but may not have a teaching background. we need to find ways to streamline the process and encourage those who have a passion to teach so that they can share their knowledge with our kids.

we must give local school systems better flexibility to train and hire subject matter experts to fill long-term vacancies in critical subject areas. each year, our teachers gather in schools and classrooms across the state with a shared vision to inspire our students and encourage a lifetime of learning. tonight, i am honored to introduce our 2015 toyota high mark blue cross blue shield teacher of the year gail adams. inspiration could come from a place least expected. i like this line. sometimes, it comes from teaching a jazzercize class. been a while since you've heard

that one, shelley? gail laughed as she corrected the grammar of the song lyrics that played and after months of joking about becoming an english teacher, she finally felt the spark that awakened a passion for teaching. she followed her heart, enrolled in college and four years later, earned her teaching degree. today, gail is not only teaching advanced english to our students at wheeling park high school, but she is answering the tough questions she once had as a high school senior. instead of just reading modern literature and studying the classics, gail's stubts are learning about banking about financing a college education and finding a rewarding career. she makes things work, makes things better and makes teaching a learning special. ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming to our 2015 teacher of the year, gail adams. gail.

we are fortunate to have businesses that understand the value of good education here in west virginia and at this time, i'd also like to recognize two individuals who zefr our thanks for their continued support of the teacher of the year program. mr. fred early president of high mark blue cross blue shield and millie marshall, president of toyota motor manufacturing of west virginia. please stand so that we may thank you to your continued commitment to our state's teachers.

a strong workforce is a drug free workforce. substance abuse is a heartbreak heartbreaking problem facing families across west virginia each and every day. with the help of the governor's counsel on substance abuse we have taken bold action to stop the production of meth and increase practice standards for pain clinics to ensure our residents are using prescription drugs responsibly. over the past two years, we have worked together to draft legislation and improve new rules to regulate pain management clinics across the state. since july the department of health and human resources has inspected seven pain clinics. three of those have been ordered to close and denied license for these new standards.

our residents must have access to pain management treatment options, but not at the expense of irresponsible prescription practices. i'm proud of the steps we have taken to curb this epidemic, but we must do more. as we continue our efforts to address the abuse of prescription medications, we must also be prepared to combat the increased availability of illegal street drugs. today, heroin use is on the rise. and we must stop this lethal drug from ruining the lives of our citizens. this session i will introduce legislation to help our state's emergency responders and families facing drug abuse save the lives of those who abuse heroin. the -- is critical to countererring the effects of heroin overdose. by expanding access to this life saving drug, we can prevent

overdose deaths and give those suffering from substance abuse the opportunity to seek help overcome their addiction and return to their families, workplaces and communities. the communities we live in are more than just places where we put down roots start new businesses or watch our children grow. they are places we call home and they must be places where we feel safe. in may, we announced a significant step toward reducing prison overcrowding and drug abuse. since then we have invested nearly $2.5 million in community based substance abuse treatment and recovery services across the state. tonight, i am pleased to announce the investment of an additional $660,000 to expand treatment options across the

state, including new intensive outpatient services in the northern and eastern panhandles. in 2013, we worked together to embrace the justice reinvestment act and developed a research based plan to rehabilitate those in our justice system. these reforms maximize our correction dollars and lower the financial burden on our overextended prison system while protecting our state's finances. through our landmark justice reinvestment effort, we have learned data driven programs do work. most of our efforts have focused on addressing our adult correction system. but we also must do everything we can to meet the needs of our youth. we must do more to keep our kids out of the courtroom and in the classroom.

between 1997 and 2011 west virginia saw the largest percentage increase in youth confinements of any state in the country. this june, with bipartisan support from every level of our three branches of government, we embarked on a comprehensive review of our juvenile justice system. this task force included law enforcement, prosecutors, public defenders, faith-based representatives and west virginia families looked at evidence based programs and identified best practices that make the most sense for west virginia. we must take action to create a smarter, more effective system for our children. tonight, i'm announcing legislation to reform our state's juvenile justice system.

it will establish tru ensy specialists in all 55 counties and increase the use of community based services to help families mend and get our kids back on track. it will also increase the number of youth reporting centers a across the state to produce better outcomes from our children and their families by getting them the help they need. at a cost of $4.5 million, this legislation is projected to reduce the number of dhhr residential placements and divisional juvenile services commitments by at least 40% over the next five years and will save taxpayers $59 million. pretty impressive.

we are also strengthening the west virginia national guard's incredibly successful mount near challenge academy. since established in 1993, nearly 3,000 teens have graduated and gone on to be productive influences in their communities. this december, 131 cadets graduated from the academy. 16% are pursuing their college degrees with the help of promise scholarships. 26% are receiving training at one of our state's vocational schools. 24% have chosen military careers and the rest have successfully completed training programs to enter our workforce. that's a pretty good record, i think. challenge academy is is making a difference in the lives of at

risk kids across the state and tonight, we welcome two graduates whose experiences will inspire others to follow their lead. after graduating from the academy in 1999, michael harris mann joined the united states army. after serving his country as a combat engineer and bomb technician, michael returned home to serve as a law enforcement officer. in 2013 he returned to the academy. this time, as a squad leader mentoring new cadets and just this past month, ron bass stood with his fellow cadets as a new graduate and member of the 43rd class. ron plans to join the west virginia national guard and continue his education. michael and ryan please stand so we may congratulate you on your achievements. please stand.

as we expand opportunities for our kids to you can seed, child welfare reform the critical to keeping our children safe at home. with this in mind, i directed the department of health and human resources to work together with workforce west virginia to help parents find stable employment to help support their families. we can make a difference in the lives of our state's children and together, we can accomplish these life changing and meaningful reforms.

this session i challenge those of us gathered in this chamber and west virginians all across the state to come together. we've set aside our political differences and stan united as west virginians for the greater good. tonight, i'm proud to welcome two west virginia law enforcement heroes who personify what it means to put the welfare of others above themselves. two weeks ago louis berg police lieutenant gjerejeremy dove, corporal mike and patrolman nicholas sams responded to what seemed to be a ree tune traffic stop. as they approached the stopped vehicle, lieutenant dove and patrolman sams were shot in the line of duty. across the state, dedicated offers like these answer the call to protect and serve. putting the safety and well being of their fellow west virginians first.

this week, lieutenant dove, corporal arbaugh and patrolman sams put on their uniforms and returned to work. lieutenant dove and patrolman sands, please stand to we may thank you for your service and thank you for the commitment you have to west virginia.

just as thee brothers in blue have taught us we are all part of something much bigger among the mownuntains we call home, we are charting a new path. one built on collaboration and mutual respect and one that places our state and our people first. i'm proud of the work we have done. i'm proud of the progress we have made and i'm confident we can continue to move west virginia forward together. tonight, we are more than just democrats and republicans. we are and will forever be, west virginians, so thank you, god

bless you, god bless your families and god bless the state that we call home. thank you. and live later this week the confirmation nominee for lorresta lynch. currently the u.s. attorney for the eastern district of new york. she's scheduled to testify live on wednesday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. and the white house announced plans to designate 1.5 million acres of the coastal plains in alaska as wilderness which would block oil exploration. alaska senator was criticized

for her response to the plan. speaking in new delhi mr. pedesta said i was hoping a more balanced reaction would be forthcoming from the people who commented on this. you can read more at the hill.com.

good morning, the committee hearing will come to order. and to start with, i would like to obviously welcome our new members. senator tom cotton, senator joni ernst, thom tillis, mike sullivan, mike rounds and senator martin heinrich. for the benefit of our new members and all this commit kbli has a long fashion of which we're proud. i've had the opportunity of working with senator reed for many years, despite his lack of quality education he has done an outstanding job here as a ranking member of the committee and for those who are political trivia experts my staff tells me it is the first time that we've had chairman ranking members from the two service --

oldest service academies and so i welcome the opportunity of working closely as i have for many years with the senator from rhode island. today the armed services committee considers global challenges to the national securities committee and today i'm here with general brent snowcroft and zbigniew brzezinski each serving as advisors to the president of the united states, laying foundations for the u.s.-china relationship, confronting the ayatollahs in iran and moscow and the middle east have clear assailants today and we're thankful for you to allow us to draw on your wisdom.

four years ago dean achisson titled his post world war ii order quote, present at the creation. looking out at the state of that order today it is fair to ask if we are now present at the unraveling. for seven decades republican and democratic leaders alike have committed america's indispensable leadership and strength to defending liberal world order, with free trade and settlement of disputes and rell grates orders of disgression to their bloody past. america has defended this order because it is essential to our identity and purpose as it is to our prosperity. but the living world order is imperilled like never before. in a speech with unrealistic

wishful thinking the president told the nation that the shadow of crisis has passed. that claim as quite a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to what has been happening around the world. a revisionist russia has invaded a sovereign european state, the first since that occurred since hitler and stalin. china is asserting itself in territorial disputes and alarming neighbors investing billions of dollars in military capabilities to diserode u.s. power in the asia-pacific. iran is seeking a nuclear weapon which would unleash a nuclear arms release. islam idealology continues

across africa and now the islamic state, this evil has the man power and resources to dissolve international borders, occupy wide swaths of sovereign territory, destabilize one of our most strategic parts of the world and possibly threaten our homeland and in yemen the country the president hailed for his brand as counter-terrorism, al qaeda continues to facilitate global terrorism as we saw in the attacks in paris and iranian rebels have pushed the country to the brink of collapse all the wy american allies are questioning whether we will live up to our commitments and our adversaries think we won't. it doesn't have to be this way. the congress and the president can restore american credibility by strengthening our common

defense. american military power has been vital to the sustainment of the liberal world order. it enhances our economic power its leverage to our diplomacy, reassures our allies and deters our adversearyiesadversaries. yet despite our security we are on track to cut $1 trillion out of our defense budget by 2021. army and marine corp is falling low and the air forces inventory is the oldest in its history the navy fleet is shrinking to preworld war i levels and top pentagon officials are warning that advances by china, russia iran and other adversaries mean u.s. military technology

superiority can no longer be taken for granted. this is unacceptable and represents our failure to meet our basic constitutional responsibility to provide for the common defense. we must have a strategy-driven budget and not a budget-driven strategy. we must have a budget that provides the resources necessary to con front them. by crafting a reality-based national security strategy is impossible under the mindless mechanism of sequestration. and there would be no clearer signal that merkin tends to commit to the defense of our national interest that protects them than the immediate repeal and i would hasten to add while a larger defense budget is essential, it is meaningless without the continued pursuit of

defense reform. rethinking how we build posture and operate our forces in order to maintain our technology edge and prevail in long-term competition would determine adversaries who seek to under mind the economic and security architecture we have long championed. this hearing is the first in a series of how we build a national security strategy that can sustain the american power and influence required to defend the national order that has produces prosperity and liberty across the globe. i'm pleased to have such a distinguished panel of american statesman to begin that conversation. senator reed. >> thank you mr. chairman. let me join you in welcoming our new members and colleagues that return. also let me congratulate, mr. chairman on your leadership

role. i think the committee is in very strong and capable hands and i look forward to working with you. and to under store your comment about the nature of this committee, it is a bipartisan approach to problems to which we'll continue under your leadership. thank you mr. children, general zbigniew brzezinski and mr. snowcroft, thank you for your service to your country and for your agreeing to be here today. let me commend general mccain for calling this hearing as a series of hearings for looking at the challenges which he outlines the challenges that he articulates here today and this hear la guardia provide us an opportunity to hear from leading experts and military commanders and key leaders in our country

about the national securities issues that we face and i welcome a chance to take this broad perspective and broad view. the number and breath of the challenges from the russia's destabling and the break down in the middle east and the al qaeda and islam -- isil rather that threaten the integrity throughout the region to iran and the nuclear program and the risks with that, to the growing of china regionally and globally and from threats from north korea and others. we would be interested in hearing of your perspectives on each of the challenges and the principals you believe should guide us in addressing them. they include and this is not an exhaustive list but it is a lengthy list with regard to the middle east, how would you

define the near and long-term united states interest in the region and second what do you believe will be required to defeat the threat and violent extremist groups like isil, involving the u.s. policy and international collaboration and what nations outside of the u.s. do you believe should address centuries old including the sunni and shiite. other round of negotiation over the weekend and a july deadline looms, while it is a few months away, it is approaching quickly and the senate banking committee is working on legislation to mark up as early as next week that would impose additional sanctions. so the committee would be interested in your assessment of the likelihood that these negotiations will succeed or value and the giving of giving this process the opportunity to play out and your assessment of

iran's regional ambitions, with or without a nuclear weapon change the dynamics in that region and also the broader sunni shia conflict. and in europe, contending a russia and the allies of eastern europe to draw nearer to our community of nations in europe. with regard to china how should the u.s. keep the relationships into conflict but help to counter balance china's assertiveness and regarding the cyber problem our society seems to be vulnerable of cyber attacks like countries like north korea and what are the implications of this vulnerability from there and other sources. let me again commend the chairman and join with him in

under scoring, echoing and reinforcing his very, very timely and critical comments about sequestration and the effect of our military and the need to couple sequestration with reform of purchasing. and with that, i can think of no more thoughtful gentlemen to ask to come forward that general snowcroft and zbigniew brzezinski. >> if you would both take seats and proceed however you choose to speak first, it is fine. >> flip a coin. >> well, who is oldest? >> who went to a real college?

go ahead brent. >> mr. chairman ranking member reed members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to present some of my views on issues that the chairman and ranking member have laid out in the world which is difficult for all of us. my opening comment i hope can con cribute to your deliberation over vexing issues and choices that we have. the world we live in is full of problems and some of them seem to result from new or novel forces and influences and i intend to focus on them.

let me begin my comments with just a few words about the cold war. the cold war was a dangerous period in our history where problems abounded. a mistake could have resulted in a nuclear war. but the cold war had one advantage. we knew what the strategy was. we argued mightily over tactics but we were always able to come back to what is it we're trying to do and it was contain the soviet union until such time as it changed. and that helped enormously in getting us through the cold war. with the end of the cold war that cohesion largely disappeared.

but shortly thereafter, we were subjected to globalization. the blending of many worldwide trends of technology, trade other kinds of things and with it under undermining of the west westphalia of the western state systems. the system was created really in the 17th century after the 30 years war and the devastation it had caused. it made the nation state the element of political sovereignty in the world. totally independent. totally on its own each one. all equal, technically. it was a tough system. and for many many have claimed

it was responsible for world war i and world war ii. but it is basically the structure of our nation state system today as modified in the west failian system, because the united states has spent much of its focus suffering the the harsh west faily an system like the united nations like laws that apply to everybody. like bringing us together rather than having these unique cubicles who are in themselves but don't relate outside.

now we have something new to confuse the system and it is called globalization and two aspects of it are particularly difficult to manage in this west faily an world because globalization says that modern technology, modern science and so on is pushing the world together in this west faily an world is not real. we are separate and sovereign. two are particularly intrusive if that is the right word. one is communications and other in a different way climate change.

this is connecting people like never before in history. for most of history most of the people of the world didn't participate in politics of their system, didn't participate in anything except their daily lives. and they were just like their parents, they expected their children to be just like them on and on and on. well now they are surrounded by information and they are responding and reacting to it. it is not that kind of a world at all. i'm not just chatle for the -- chattel for the boss down the street to use any way he wants. i'm a human being and i have dignity. and this is sweeping throughout

the world. and altering our system in ways that is difficult for us to cope with. and one of the ways, of course is the impact of cyber on our societies. which could be enormous. as deadly as nuclear war not deadly to the person, but deadly to the society. and those are the kinds of things that we face now and it is focused most importantly on the middle east. and i think one of the things we've seen that if you want to object like in egypt for example, you go out and you parade in the square.

well that is a difficult thing to do order fairinarilyordinarily. you have to find people that will go out with you you have to avoid the police and so on and so forth but now globalization has made it really easy. all you have to do is pick up your cell phone and say there will be a rally tomorrow in tahrir square at 10:00 and you can get 10 million people. this is a very very different world where the west failian information is keeping people out it didn't want people to see and that is what we are facing and we've barely begun to deal with it. and i add -- i add climate change to it because it demonstrates what we cannot do

the nation state alone. no nation state can deal with climate change. we have to cooperate to make it work. it is just that way. so these are new impacts on our system. and they make governance more difficult. and more so for the united states because we have been at the forefront in liberalizing the west failia system in making a more just world for all. to help us in this difficult task we should look to our

alliances, especially nato. i think nato in many ways is as valuable as it was in the cold war n. a world where the relationship of the individual to the state is frequently under attack an alliance of states to whom that personal relationship to the state is sacred is valuable and nato has many areas where it can deal with these new forces on us in a cooperative way which negates the independent sovereignty and atomizing the world.

the impact seems most dramatic in the middle east where the impact of the arab spring where was heavy and still very -- still very much bring felt. it has brought sunni, shia differences to acrimony and even to combat and the isil issue in syria and iraq is an excellent example of the devastation that communication can create in a nation state system. it is atexting to transform a political state system into a caliphate or religious order, and i don't think the nation state system is under gross attack but this is a new and very different development which would be dangerous or painful

for all of us. also in the middle east, however, besides chaos are some situations where it is conceivable that real progress towards peace and stability might be made. one of the areas is iran. the iranian nuclear issue is excruciatingly complicated but resolution i don't think, is out of the question. and a resolution of this difficult issue could open the way to discussions of other issues in the middle east region which we used to have with iran when it was a very different state state. and it might serve to change some of the sunni shia issues in

the region to benefit all of us. another enduring issue in the middle east region has been the palestinian peace process. many would say that expecting progress is grasping at straws but a determined effort, a determined effort from the top, including the united states might bring surprising results. just a word about the nuclear arsenal. as more and more nuclear delivery vehicles reach, the number and types required becomes more voluable and more

difficult difficult. one way to calculate nuclear needs could be to create a balance, and i'm talking particularly between the u.s. and russia, that means that nuclear weapons would never be used and that is that our numbers and character of the force is such that no one can reasonably calculate that in a first strike he would destroy his opponent's systems and escape unscathed. if we look at that, it gives us us -- guidance and numbers in a system in which we need.

one other nuclear comment. in order to avoid a world's demand for nuclear reactor fuel creating other iran-like states i think the u.s. should consider establishing a nuclear fuel bank where states can check out fuel for reactors return it after it has been used and thus avoid what could be almost endless moves toward nuclear pow erer. mr. chairman i focused remarks on aspects of world development.

i thought most vexing and unique. but i would be happy to answer any questions. thank you very much. >> thank you, general. doctor? >> mr. chairman and members of this distinguished committee. thank you for the invitation to address you. i will be very brief and i generally agree with what general snowcroft has just said and we did not concert our statements. my hope is that your deliberations will shape a bipartisan national security strategy. such bipartisanship is badly needed and i think we all know that. given the complexity and

severity of the challenges that america faces in europe, in the middle east and potentially in the far east. together they pose an ominous threat to global security. in europe putin is playing with fire. financing and arming a local rebellion and occasionally intervening directly by force in order to destabilize ukraine economically and politically and thereby destroying its european aspirations. given that, the current sanctions should certainly be maintained until russia's verbal commitments to respect ukraine's sovereignty are actually implemented. in the meantime nato and

especially the u.s. should make some defensive weaponry available to ukraine. something that i have been urging since the onset of the crisis. not to provide them simply increases russia's temptation to escalate the intervention. at the same time i have also advocated and do so again today that we indicate to the kremlin that the u.s. realizes that a non-nato status for a europe-oriented ukraine could be part of a constructive east-west accommodation. finland offers a very good

example. the preservation of peace in europe also requires enhanced security for the very vulnerable baltic states. in recent years, and we should really take note of this, russia has conducted menacing military maneuvers near the borders of these states and also in its isolate isolating isolateing ingrad regions. one of these involved a simulating nuclear attack on a neighboring european region. that speaks for itself. the only way to reinforce regional stability is to deploy now in the baltic states some trip wire nato con tingence

including also from the u.s., such deployments would not be limited to russia, but it would reduce the temptation to recklessly replay the scenario that transpired recently in crimea, prompt positioning of u.s.-nato equipment in nearby poland would also contribute to enhancing regional deterrence. turning to the middle east, again very briefly, we should try to avoid universalizing the current conflict in europe into a worldwide collision with russia. that is an important point. it is both in america's and in

russia's interest that the violence in the middle east does not get out of hand. containing it is also in china's long-range interest. otherwise regional violence is likely to spread northward into russia. don't forget that some 20 million muslims live in russia. and northeast-ward into central asia eventually into singjong, with a direct detriment to china. america, russia and china should jointly consult about how they can best support the more moderate middle east states in pursuing either a political or military solution. in different ways america,

russia and china should encourage turkish engagement iranian cooperation, which is much needed and could be quite valuable saudi restraint somewhat overdue, egyptian participation, if seeking, if possible, some form of compromise in syria and the elimination of the extremists. and the three major powers should bear in mind that there will be no peace in the middle east if quote, unquote, boots on the ground come mainly from the outside and especially from the u.s. the era of colonial supremacy in the region is over. finally, with the president soon embarking on a trip to india

let me simply express the hope that the u.s. will not and intentionally intensify concerns in beijing that the u.s. is inclined to help arm india as part of a defacto anti--chinese, asian coalition. that will simply encourage the -- that will simply discourage the chinese from becoming more helpful in coping with the volatile dangers that confront us in europe and in the middle east. to sum up in my preliminary statement, global stability means discriminating and determined but not the minering american engagement. thank you. >> thank you, both.

and those were strong words and gives us a lot of food for thought thought. i guess to begin with, would you both agree that sequestration is badly given the events as we see them in the world today as something that we need to repeal? would you agree general snowcroft? >> absolutely, i would. it is a terrible way to determine force structure, strategy, anything like it. it is undermining our ability to do what we need to do to retain as sbig says, contingencies of the world. so yes, i'm very much opposed to sequestration. >> doctor? >> agree -- i agree with brent.

>> it seems if we are going to develop a national security strategy, given the myriad and complexities of the challenges we face as both of you pointed out, it seems to me that we have to have -- it seems. >> cyber attack. [ laughter ] >> -- we need to set some priorities. would you give us your view, both of you of what our priorities should be. general? >> in foreign policy i presume? >> in order to develop a national security strategy? >> i believe we need, first of

all, to pay attention to our nuclear structure and nuclear relations with russia because we do not want, above all, a nuclear war to erupt. i think we also need to look carefully at how the world is changing and what we can do to assist that change to produce a better, not a worse world. one of the big challenges in this world is cyber. and i'm not intellectually capable of dealing with the

cyber issue, but it is a worldwide issue and as i say, could be as dangerous as nuclear weapons and there is no control anywhere about it. i think i agree with zbig that the united states has areas where it can work with both the chinese and the russians. and sometimes both of them. i think we should not neglect those. the chinese especially didn't participate in the west failian world i'm talking about. there is china and there is everybody else. and we need to learn the chinese

chinese -- how to communicate to them so that we have the desired effect. i think russia is a very difficult case right now. but i think the cold war is not returning and we should not aid and abet its return. >> dr. brzezinski, on the issue of russia, some believe because of the price of oil and the effect on the russian economy will lead putin to be more conducive to lessening some of his aggressive and confrontational behavior such as you described not only in ukraine but with the baltics and maldova, et cetera but there are others that say because of this it will make him more

confrontational to maintain his standing not only with the russian people but in the world. i wonder what your assessment is on -- and i know it is a very difficult question. >> yes, but could i comment very briefly on the previous one. >> anything, doctor. >> first of all about the nuclear confrontation. obviously, we confront each other. and we have had some crises in the past. i think we have learned a great deal with them and i hope the russians have as well. but what is somewhat alarming is the fact that in recent times, during this current crisis which is a limited ground-based crisis putin has invoked the threat of nuclear weapons. people haven't paid much attention to it but he has publicly commented on the fact that we have the nuclear weapons, we have the capability and so forth. and he has then matched that with highly provocative air

overflied of scandinavia and western europe and all the way to portugal. so i'm a little concerned -- when i say little, i'm underestimated my concern, but there may be a dangerous streak in his character that could push us to some possibly very danger confrontations. and in that respect, he reminds me a little bit of houschof and we all know where that did lead at some point. and that is why it is terribly important that he has no misunderstandings as to our commitment and determination and that is why doing something on the ground that deters him from trying to leap frog on the ground with a military solution is needed and i alluded to that in my opening comments.

in so far as china is concerned. i think probably the chinese have some genuine interest from the standpoint of the enhancement of their international pow erer in the acquisition of cyber capabilities of a confrontational type. i don't want to over-exaggerate this and am searching for words that do not create the suggestion of an imminent danger but part of the strategic history is the notion that you don't prepare to fight your opponent at that given stage of weaponry. you leap frog and then you engage in some offensive activity. and i'm concerned that the chinese may feel that they

cannot surpass us in the nuclear area and note at they are very, very nuclear restraint they have hardly any nuclear weapons, we have many more targets nuclear weapon than china, but the cyber issue may pose at this point or at some point of paralyzing an opponent entirely without killing anybody. that could be a very tempting solution for a nation which is of course, increasing the significance economically and that is imposing and that suggests we have to be far more inclined to raise those issues with the chinese which we have done to some extent, but to more

important to engage in the deterrence to have the capability to respond effectively or to prevent an attempt from being successful. now on the point you have just raised which was about putin and how to contain him right? >> basically, his reaction -- his reaction to this economic crisis that he's confronting? >> well he's confronting a very serious economic crisis which he is trying to deny. i think he's in denial phase. but it is quite interesting how many of his former immediate associates but political allies express growing concern. here the real question is not how serious the crisis is in russia, but the real question is will the russian economic implode in some political gio significant fashion first or

will ukraine implode in some significant geopolitical fashion first. but what putin is doing is not part of a comprehensive political nation of ukraine other than crimea, but the economic issues and the costs in a regime which is expressing the people for cloiser -- closer relationship with the west but a regime coming together after 20 years and a very significant mismanagement of the ukraine and the economy and the kind of needle sticking in which puttin is engaging against the ukraine. not on the blood, in relatively moderate fashion, but gnawing and painful but could produce a

crisis in the ukraine and that is why i think we have to in a sense more credibly increase putin it is in his sense not to do the needle picking, because we can make it difficult for him, for example, by arming the ukraineian ukrainians, but the measure we worked out with the others and the others were more important to us if finland in '45, '46 has worked very well. >> thank you gentlemen. for your testimony and for your extraordinary service to the country. about two years ago in 2013, i believe you cohifr authored an open letter about the ukrainian

negotiation and how time it was to support them and saying additional concessions in the negotiations will risk undermining or even shutting down the negotiations. let me ask general snowcroft and dr. brzezinski, do you feel that would under mind negotiation and miss an opportunity not only an opportunity in the nuclear realm but also in other areas of concern? >> yes senator, it is. i think that the -- the system -- the regime in iran is different. we don't know how different and we don't know what the results will be. but this is -- this is -- their

behavior is quite different from when ahmadinea jad was head of the government and it seems we ought to try to take advantage of that. the foreign minister served in the u.n. at nato he's familiar with the west. the president -- they are talking different and the mullahs are not nearly as vociferous as before. does that mean anything? we don't know. but it seems to me it is worth testing. and think two things are likely to happen if we increase the

sanctions. they will break the talks and a lot of the people who have now joined us in the sanctions would be in danger of leaving because most of the people who joined us in sanctions on iran didn't do it to destroy iran, they did it to help get a nuclear solution. >> dr. brzezinski? >> basically i have the similar perspective. i would only add so as not to repeat in addition to what he said, i think the breaking off of the negotiations or the collapse of the negotiations would at rest and reverse the painful and difficult process of increasing moderation within ukrainian political life. we're dealing with a revolution of extremists and revolutionists

but there a ukrainian society a significant change, which every visitor to iran notices, a more moderate attitude and lifestyle and temptation to emulate western standards including how the women dress and all of that indicates that iran is beginning to evolve into what it traditionally has been, a very civilized about important historical country but we have to be very careful not to have this dramatic and suddenly reverses and not to mention the negative consequences for global stability this would have and the reduction and willingness and iranian willingness in some fashion to prevent the extremists and the fanatics that are tempting to seek control over the muslim world from prevailing. >> thank you.

dr. brzezinski, my time is falling, last september you were asked to comment about the situation in syria and you indicated that the american role is definitely required but that role essentially has to be very carefully limited. is that your view today or do you have any other comments on the situation? >> that is still my view. it probably goes even further. i never understood why we had to help oren force the overthrow of assad. i never understand because there was never any real action on that. what has happened in the last two years or so since that happened, is a demonstration of the fact that whether we like it or not, assad does have significant support in syrian society and probably more than

any one of the several groups that are opposing him. so that has to be taken into account. i don't think that those who oppose him perhaps with the exception of the relatively small and weakest group among the resistors who favor us. and yet he has a bigger and better standing than any one of them combined. there is division in the country across the board. but he's still there. and i think if we want to in some fashion promote the end of the horrible blood letting and the progressive destruction of that country, not the promotion of democracy, i think we have to take that reality into account. >> quickly your account on this topic? >> i pretty much agree with zbig on syria.

i wouldn't rule out that at some point we can get some support for resolving a most difficult situation from the russians. they have a big stake in syria and it seems to me that somewhere there is the possibility that we could have a cease-fire and assad maybe step aside and we would agree that russia would play an important role with us in resolving it. and i think it's -- in among terrible choices, it is one we ought to examine. and the russians have made a few

comments in the last few days that they might be interested. >> may i just add one more point? i think the existing borders in the middle east have run out of life. they were never authentically historic, they created largely by west colonial powers. i think largely what we face, particularly on the violence not just in syria is stabilizing the region that has different preconditions for different borders or arrangements that were posed after world war i by the west. >> thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you for this hearing and i look forward to serving with you on the committee as no one in the senate -- almost no one in america has traveled and had the depth of experience as senator mccain.

it is an honor to serve with him and hear his ideas on so many important issues of today's life. and mr. snowcroft he talks about the west faily an system, and it does appear you mentioned china not being part of that history, at least with the people of the middle east who are also not part of any kind of understanding of what went on at the peace of west failia. do we have a miscommunication, and i'll ask both of you, of the misunderstanding of the nation state and the reality of the nation state in that area and a better understanding might make us more effective in response -- in responding to the challenges we face there? >> i think that is possible but

i think the middle east is a unique place. for centuries it belonged to the it remained to the empire which loosely governed it. then with the collapse of the empire after world war i, they the middle east was redrawn, the map was redrawn and the agreement quite arbitrarily to pursue the interest that the british and french had in it. those borders are in danger. they are tenuous. they don't represent much of

anything. it's a very difficult region and unique in it's not participating basically in the european or western system, russian system or chinese. >> do you think as the doctor indicated we may be moving toward redrawing some of those boundaries or boundaries being altered in the next decade? either one of you like to comment on this. >> i don't think we ought to engage in that. one of the things we should do is to start mending our relationships with egypt. egypt is a big player in the region and because of its domestic problems they have

fallen off. they played a small role in the recent uprising, but i think we need help. hopefully we can get more from turkey turkey. but the chances of making it worse rather than better are worrisome. >> i thank both of you for your insights, very valuable us. with regard to strategy dr. brzezinski, it was mentioned earlier we had a cold war strategy. everybody bought into it in a bipartisan way. the reality is i think it's much harder for us to have a strategy in this more complex world. maybe not, but it seems to me that it is. i would share your concern as i've been here 18 years, that we need to be a bit more hum bullble

in what we can accomplish. it's a bit more complex, people not able to move overnight and we need to be more responsible and thoughtful how we exercise american power and care. in developing a strategy dr. brzezinski do you see things we might would all agree on that might be positive for the united states? >> i can certainly think of a lot of things we should agree on. i'm not sure we would agree. in order to agree, we have to talk to each other. i'm not quite sure in recent years, particularly in face of the novelty of the challenges we face there has been enough of the bipartisan of these issues highest level you, members of this very distinguished committee, irrespective of who

actually controls the executive office. i think we have to ask ourselves how is the world different today? i'm a little more skeptical about the wes fallian system being more relevant. it emerged in europe when they were already being countries with territorial definition. this is not the case in many parts of the world. china was unique in having a real advanced state so to speak, earlier than europe. but the rest of the world is coming into the being and that contributes to uncertainty in what's happening. what are the real borders in the middle east? a lot of the countries in the middle east speak the same language, for example. why should they be here or there? should they speak the same language, should they have a single state or speak the same

language or should religion be determinative for a state. i'm afraid this process will take a long time before it settles itself. we should not be directly involved in imposeing a solution. >> thank you both. i appreciate that. i would say with regard to members of congress particularly members of the senate, i believe we talk together more collegially and with more understanding about international relations and defense issues than we do any other subject. we have not the kind of intensity of disagreement -- some, some pretty big intensity bog back to the iraq war and so forth but i think we're getting past that. hopefully we can be more effective working as a united country because that's essential. thank you. >> thank you, chairman.

welcome. i read last year a piece by thomas friedman i found very interesting where he described the islamic state and the situation in the middle east today by saying there were three civil wars raging in the arab world today. one, the civil war between sunni islam, insunni islam radical jihad is and mainstream muslims and regions to the civil war across the region between sunnis funded by saudi arabia and shiites funded by iran. and three, civil war between sunni jihadists and other minorities in the region. when you have that many civil wars at once, it means there's no center, only sides. when you intervene in the middle of a region where there's no center you very quickly become

a side." i'm curious if either of you would agree to that assessment and return to what you spoke about a little earlier regarding how important it is that the fighting on the front lines, against the islamic state be conducted by iraquis and other regional arab partners and members of the coalition as opposed to western or u.s. troops. >> i agree basically with it. i think there are fortunately several states in the middle east that do show this -- show signs of the capacity for conducting a responsible role. we have to rely on them. i doubt they are going to prevail very quickly. these are the countries that were mentioned. i don't think we have any other choice. i think getting involved in the internal dynamics religious conflict sectarian animosities

of the region is a prescription for protracted engagement of the kind that can be very destructive to our national interests. to be sure there are some circumstances in which we have to act. when we were attacked after 9/11 we had to respond. i remember being called in with i think brent and henry to the session that made the basic decision and we were of course, not participants in making the decision but we would say something. i remember they also fully endorsed taking military action against obama and his associates, al qaeda i walked up to our secretary of defense, donald rumsfeld. i said let's go in do what we can, destroy the taliban which held government control in the

country and underneath get engaged in development of democracy. maybe i was wrong. maybe time will demonstrate i was wrong. but certainly i don't anticipate ten years an still another ten years. certainly the rest of the middle east would try that, it would be far, far longer. i think we have to face the fact that the region will probably be in some serious turmoil for a long time to come, and our bets ought to be on those countries which like the european countries have already acquired cohesion of states and i mentioned them in my comments but not trying to do the heavy lifting ourselves. we could get the russians and chinese to be more cooperative. they have a stake being more cooperative, we would be better off. each sit on the sidelines and think, well the americans will get more engaged and this will improve our interests in competing with us here or there.

we would like to collaborate them with limited steps and helping moderates in the middle east in different ways because they have different aspirations. >> do you want to add to that? >> i largely agree on that. i think we have to be a participant in the middle east but we should not want to be an owner. and we ought to help those states which we think are trying to produce if you will a modern system. that's why i mentioned egypt. egypt is a serious