weapons the weapons systems of the aircraft themselves. everything is more advanced. you can do more with less. you need less battle groups less aircraft, less pilots in order to do not just the same mission, but even more and more advanced missions. we don't need as many students here doing the training as you would back in the 1940's or 1950's. i have been in the navy 23 years, based many places, and there is no where else i have been that provides better support for the military than the city of corpus christi. in 2016, we will be celebrating our 75th anniversary and that is something -- that kind of synergy between the military and the community here is something that really makes all of this work so well. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.

visit ncicap.org] >> throughout the weekend, we are featuring corpus christi texas. learn more about corpus christi and other stops on the c-span cities to work on c-span.org/localprojects. you are watching american history tv. >> join us on sunday as we visit the u.s. botanic gardens at the foot of capitol hill. the executive director discusses the history of the oldest botanic garden in north america originally proposed by president george washington in a 1796 letter. that is sunday at 6:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. eastern time on american artifacts on american history tv on c-span3. historical interpreters and bill radcliffe describe what it would be like to be a female slave and a member of the u.s. college troops during the civil war. they discuss what they would

have faced and what may have been factors. the speakers also talk about how they prepare talking about slavery in their research. this hour-long presentation is part of a series from the tennessee susquehanna chill civil war commission. >> welcome to the final chapter. i served as the dean for the campus for columbia state and i trust that like i, you have truly enjoyed your day today. i often tell people i was raised in ohio, and where i grew up, the civil war was a paragraph or two in a history book. slavery ended, and that was all we needed to know. it was not something that needed to be discussed or remembered. it wasn't until i joined columbia state community college and began working in franklin that i realized the civil war was more than a story in a book.

i began to understand that this war impacted real people, real families communities businesses, and its presence is still felt today. i have the opportunity to serve on the board of franklin's charge and the battle of franklin trust, and while our primary work is restoring preserving and reclaiming franklin's battlefields, education and advocacy is no less important. what i have learned of my own history since being in franklin is that my great great grandmother, laura charleston, was born into slavery in east texas, and she was eight years old when president lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation, which freed the state -- slaves in territories which is something that not everyone understands about the proclamation, and enlisting the

black soldiers in the union army. it was with this proclamation that the war to preserve the union became a revolutionary struggle for the abolishment of slavery. we cannot discuss this period in our history without talking about slavery, however painful it may be to some, and we cannot examine its outcomes without acknowledging our colored troops that fought for freedom, and we are going to do both of those in this final session. i applaud dr. west and his team, who have put this together to put the session on this program because it is very relevant. i am going to introduce both of the people you see on your panel. i'm going to go ahead and do their bios, and then they are going to speak to you individually, and then we will open it back up for questions. first, nicole moore is a public historian, museum professional,

blogger, consultants, and interpreter of slave life. she holds a bachelors in psychology and a masters in history, with a concentration in public history from the university of north carolina at charlotte. her masters thesis presenting slavery, the interpretation of slavery and its place in public history and at an historic plantation, examined how historic sites delivered slave life to visitors. she is a contributor and author to the book best practices for inter-putting slavery at historic sites from a publishing group. today, she consults with historic sites on best practices on how to tell the story of insulated men, women, and children through programming exhibits, and educational materials. she is also an educator who develops school programs, public programs, and special events for three historic houses. now, our soldier.

william hill radcliffe is a u.s. navy veteran who served in vietnam. he attended fisk university in nashville, tennessee, and is a 27-year veteran of the national fire department, -- nashville fire department, from which he retired. he was with the third team united states colored infantry for over 25 years. the u.s. college troops were poured -- promote the greater awareness and understanding of african-american military service and sacrifice during civil war. and lasting contribution to freedom and continued legacy and relevance to freedom and democracy. he has been a member of the tennessee civil war sus when tenniel commission and has made numerous appearances on television and documentaries and was a model of a civil war

soldier in a national cemetery. please join me in welcoming both of our speakers. [applause] >> i am sorry, y'all. i was outside in the cold today, so now my allergies are kicking my tail. good afternoon, everyone, how are you doing? great. what i am going to do is probably going to be different from what you expect. when i do interpretation, i usually do third person and not first, so if you were looking for that kind of portrayal, i am sorry. however, this allows me to speak directly to you in a way that you will understand, and this works well with audiences, is when you are in first person a lot of times come you cannot break your character to engage your audience, and you can see that there would be a question on their face, but you cannot answer it, because that is not

your time period, so what i'm going to do is real talk and kind of go over in its patient and freedom and what that probably would have felt like, and we will get it from a couple of point of views, and am i talking too fast, because i feel i am talking too fast? i am good? all right. and then i am just going to let bill go, and he will be fine. then we will open it up for questions. so last year when i was at chattanooga, i got an opportunity to interpret to the school kids, and it was really amazing. what i like about children is they are pretty much blank slates, and i can help them find a love of history that a lot of us now -- well, these are history learners in this room, so you all do not have this problem, but for more of the public who think that history is boring, i can actually bring

that love of history to children and get them really engaged, and it was because of that engagement last year that i am here this year, so instead of talking about just what the everyday life of an enslaved woman would be, i will talk to you a little bit about what might be going through her mind now that she is facing freedom. so this first part, we will talk about if i were an enslaved woman, minding my business doing my thing, and i hear these rumblings of my coworkers -- cohorts talking about our plantation is being abandoned, now is time for us to go, and i am hearing about these things as i am going about my daily duties, and i start thinking to myself well, yes. i probably could leave, find complete freedom, get away from here. i am tired of doing these people's dishes, and the food that i part and had to redo took

me forever. maybe i do want to leave. at this point in my life, i have no ties. i have no husband. i have no kids. why not? i have nothing. i have nothing to lose. the only thing i have to gain is my freedom, so i decide, who do i let in on this secret, because, yes, i heard you all talking back there, but i cannot trust you. i do not know who is going to tell somebody else what the plan is, and then everybody gets caught, nobody gets freedom, and my life will be miserable, so while i hear you in the background, i am going to plot on my own. when do i do this? how do i do this? where am i going? when i get to wherever it is i am going, what am i going to do with myself? i have some skills. i am a seamstress. i can cook. i can do a little bit of this, a

little bit of that. let me pack whatever little things that i have, slip out quietly into the night, and go through the woods. i am going to do what my grandmother and what i have heard my great grandmothers to do, which is falling -- following be drinking board. i am going to look up and follow the big dipper, and i am going to look at the mosque on the trees. i know it is cold, so i am going to grab my cloak, even though i have not mended it for the winter. and i am going to grab my shoes even though they are not mended. i am going to move swiftly and find those safehouses that i have heard something about, and i'm going to hope that in the end, everything is all right and as i make this journey, i am confident that if i get caught i have absolutely zero idea of what is going to happen to me.

i do not know if i will find somebody who will assist me in my journey, or am i going to find somebody that says, hey, all right, free woman, come with me. will i make it to a union contraband cap, where i can at least find work there and hope for my freedom with that? i am not really sure. i am just went to take a risk and roll the dice and go. and in this scenario, of course i make it wherever i am going. i can start my life brand new. freedom has come for all, but what about those i left behind who waited for official freedom? you know, what are they going to do? are they going to stay down there? should i go back to where i came from to bring them up to my new life that i have, those close friends that i have, or should i, you know, just forget everything and start over? these are some of the conversations i am having in my head because my life has

suddenly shifted from enslavement to one of complete and total freedom, but do i really have complete and total freedom? can i walk the streets at night? can i visit my friends without fear of harassment or worse? that is kind of the decision i am going through it i decided to go. flipping back to the very beginning of this scenario, i hear those whispers and rumblings of freedom and, yes, let's go escape. this scenario though, i have a husband. i have children, and i am fortunate. my family is still with me. my husband, i know, is very hesitant on escaping. he says let's just wait, wait it out. let's see what happens. i am a little bit like well, we have been waiting for a and, yes let's go escape. while and it has not happened yet, but we will continue to wait. and while we wait and wait and

wait, we hear the tales of others who have gone on and gotten freedom. we hear the tales of those who have run away, and they have been captured. and he lets me know, each night that i question the decision that we decided to stay, when there is a possibility that we could have had a new start at life. what about our kids? how are you going to carry the three of them? they are young. where are we going to go? do we leave two of the behind and take the oldest one in hopes that we can find a new life start a new life, and when freedom comes for all, we can go back for our two children? so now you're asking me to choose between freedom and my children, and do i leave one or two and then come back? that is not playing fair. the next day, somebody else has gone off, and they insist that

they have successfully left, and i look back again and say, so what are we going to do here? well, where are we going to go? what are we going to do? yes, i may be a blacksmith and you a seamstress, but then what? all right, we will play this game, and the next day, as we hear more and more and more, i am tired of waiting for freedom. why can't we take it? all right, you go. we will stay here. so you're asking me to leave everything that i know and everything that i hold dear because i don't want to wait. these are some of the decisions that this -- enslaved african americans face. let's face it. freedom is great. it is what you want, but at what cost? do you leave behind your family? do you leave behind your friends?

do you leave behind everything you know, or do you wait -- also fantastic. the only thing about emancipation, you have to understand when these millions of africans americans were freed, they were freed but they had no home, no clothing no food no shelter, no jobs. it was just you are free but i am free to do what? so do i go with freedom, or do i take my life skills and make life happen for myself? it is hard to fully understand in modern -- 2014 these decisions, because it is just hard to have that conversation with yourself today. what would you do? and i don't like it when people ask me, well, what would you do, because i don't know. these are real-life decisions that had to be made, some of them within minutes hours of, hey, this idea came up. why don't you go?

i don't know if i could leave my family. i have a five-year-old and a husband. i have a hard enough time traveling and doing stuff for a couple of days without them with me, so i can't imagine thinking to myself do i stay in this life and hope for something better with them, or do i take the chance now and go out and hope that what i find is better and i can do something for them? so when people ask, why do you do this, and why'd you portray this life, this is why. we don't have these conversations. we don't have to make these decisions today, but we do need to understand that the choices that others may lead us to where we are today, and in every aspect, we need to understand those decisions. they may not have been the best ones. they may have been the best

decisions, but understand why they had to happen, what criteria needed to be met for somebody to say they would leave everything and go for broke before i can even begin to try to judge the past. i do not like judging those in history because i was not there. i do not have to make that choice. but by studying their lives and understanding the circumstances would i leave my family today? no, but i can fully understand why, say my great great-grandmother would have left hers, hoping for something better. i can fully understand why someone would stay if an opportunity of freedom came, and instead of taking that opportunity, they would have stayed. it is not that they did not want to be free. they just wanted more, and freedom did not mean freedom with family with a place to stay, with security, then maybe i will wait a little bit longer until those things are available to me.

so when we talk about emancipation and freedom, and when we talk about slavery, in general, and when we just talk about the thoughts and feelings and the emotions that these people had, we can't think of it in our terms. we have to think of it in theirs, and it is important to understand, you know, when you grew up, you had those choose your adventure books. sometimes when we interpret history, we have to decide especially if you are doing portrayals, which adventure are you going to choose, and you cannot always pick the one that ends happily ever after. sometimes you have to show that there were risks involved in those risks, and they did not lead to the best of circumstances, but, fortunately, for you all today, i choose my adventure to take my family find freedom, and live a better life. what i think that we really need to understand about this

particular time period and enslaved men and women and those who were fighting with the union and those who were running away and those who were doing things to better their own lives, we have to honor that decision, and we have to do that by speaking about it by studying it, by learning it, but putting it in our schools and saying that it the war was not just the north won, slavery ended, ea. we have to look at the nuances of it. we have to understand the battles. we have to understand not just battles but home life. we have to understand people. we have to look at them as people, first and foremost understanding that these are people with hot, feelings, and the emotions, and these are the same things they struggled with 150 plus years ago, and without that, we are lost, and without that, we cannot accurately

portray them, and we cannot accurately discuss and we cannot do generations that service of broadening their horizons of better understanding, so that is my spiel. i am going to turn it over to -- yes, it is your turn. i am going to turn it over to mr. bill ratcliffe. he is going to be fine. [applause] you do not have a wireless. you see? >> good afternoon, everybody. i cannot speak in the third person. my makeup does not allow me to

do that. i am one of those funny people who has to think about what they are going to say and before they forget it, write it down, so with sister nicole's wonderful dissertation that i enjoyed, i am going to do my best to follow-up with maybe something you all can take away from this experience. i have to tell you, this experience for me ash i will be honest with you. yes, i was a sailor, a firefighter, and a reenactor about 26 years, and i am extremely nervous. but having said that, i am going to take my time and my little notes and pass along what i have to tell you. i want to thank you all for being here. i want to thank all of the

honored guests that were in attendance, my associates on the sesquicentennial -- the commission. [laughter] my brothers and sisters from the 13th united states colored troops mr. and mrs. hill mr. and mrs. overton, and the lovely mrs. radcliffe. we had a great day today. the honor is mine to be standing here before you today as a member of the sesquicentennial commission and as a representative of history 150 years ago. this journey has been a true blessing for me. the people i have been associated with, for what we have accomplished during this 150th commemoration of the civil war in the state of tennessee, for the wonderful relations that i have made and for what i have been able to learn and to share and to experience.

as a civil war reenactor history, experience, trials, the deprivations, and the lives of all who preceded us. yes, it is fun. it is fun to run around loading fire, shooting at the enemy, knowing that you can go home. but also at the same time, there is something more. it is like a time portal before us. something unseen that defies explanation. to those of us who have experienced this, it calls us. it beckons us, even. to look a little deeper. it might sound strange or

curious, but to those of us who care not much for history, but to actually go to a place where history occurred, to walk the same ground and be where regular human beings went forth whichever side they fought on to give up all the more willing the last full measure of devotion. for what i believe is truly remarkable, these are not just words. they never have been. the places, the battlefields, from virginia to texas are sites where real people gave away their futures. they are there, and they will always be there. the it will run, shiloh gettysburg nashville, north

franklin. it happened here on this soil of the united states of america. to walk these sites, take us places where sacrifices were made, where we can only meditate and say thanks. i have been to places that appear peaceful and tranquil. oh that we knew what they knew. our family grace is we have a chance now through efforts of our state tourism, our sesquicentennial commission the people of our state who choose to learn and share this time portal will continue to beckon us all. for us to read, investigate, be

a living witness, pass on to the future generations and older generations that the truth can really set you free. i am speaking for myself that found that freedom. i have freedom from doubt, from ignorance of living in a frame where i would not be compelled to know my family or its history. fortune showed me my parents were willing to tell me what i desired to know. treasures were revealed. i did achieve this freedom by living and experiencing this journey. i am not saying my journey should be a requirement for one's personal freedom, but i am an advocate of personal growth through education.

no one should be able to make anyone do anything. that is what the blood of millions in times past was sacrificed, but we do need to take pause. we need to see where we are and see where we have been and see where we are going. wouldn't it be great if all of our personal journeys ended up a national journey, where all could benefit together? in closing i would like to say i am truly honored to be a part of such a great group these past years. who accepted me and made me feel welcome. i thank you all, and god bless

you all. [applause] >> thank you again to our panelists, and i would like to open this up for questions. if you have particular questions, there are microphones on two isles. you're welcome to come forth and ask any questions you would like. i see someone right here. please go ahead. >> yes, this is to nicole and also bill, if you want to answer it. what is the worst interpretation you have seen of enslaved life, and you do not have to name the place. you can keep that in mind, if you will. >> would you like to? >> >> i

don't think my microphone is on. yes, it is, because i took the other one off. i don't think that there is a place that necessarily has -- i won't say that i've been someplace that i can see the worst. i can tell you what the worst would be. actually i do know a couple of places that have been worst. but the worst to me is having uneducated interpreters. you need to have people who know what they are talking about who understand the history and can deliver without bias. to me, the worst places are, for those that do first-person, this does not include them. for those who do third person, the worst places are where you have one or two w african americans, and they are the only ones to talk about slavery because especially if you're

doing third person, everyone on your staff should be able to give part of the history, and if you're not doing that, you're doing a disservice not only to the staff members. you are doing a disservice to those you are remembering, and you're doing a disservice to your public who are there to learn. it does not matter who says it as long as the information is accurate, true to the site which is important, and delivered with unbiased honesty. then you can't go wrong. when you don't do these things, not only are you the worst interpreter, you are the worst site and do not deserve the attention of your public. a little harsh, but that is how i feel. anything? >> no, you covered it all. >> there is another person here, and then we will go to the other side. >> i guess this would be addressed mostly to nicole,

unless mr. radcliffe -- unless you have something to add to it. i guess in a similar vein, what is the most difficult or most challenging interpretation that you yourself have done? >> one of the most difficult that i have done was -- it was a first-person. there is a very strong reason why i don't do first-person a lot, and it is because i do like to engage in the audience and get them to look past the clothing to really understand the history, but i did a first-person interpretation, where we talked about sisters who had been separated. i don't have a sister, so for me, it was just doing the interpretation. i had two older white women in tears come up to me afterwards, and they were talking about how they were moved because they couldn't imagine having someone forcibly separate them, and then reuniting -- i think our time.

was 30 years later. -- our time period was 30 years later. you cannot control people's emotions, but to see them really touched by that and not take that as, oh, this is a nice little script they are going over, but make that correlation to their lives and connect, that is great. that is what you want people to do, is you want them to make connections personally. you want them to have that. >> i would think, what comes to mind, nicole speaks of doing third person, but i am most comfortable in first-person, because that way i can do what i need to do and hide, but at the same time, when i do a first-person, my research and my will and my belief that i am

telling a story that needs to be told i feel more in that aspect, and i had an experience that -- i have had several in reenactments and different venues, but this particular one we were in andersonville georgia. we were at the pow camp in andersonville, and we portrayed prisoners of war and there were black prisoners and white prisoners, and our confederate captors had us in an area that was pretty much the same area where the prisoners were kept and i portrayed a wounded soldier, and i needed to go to the surgeon, and in my delirium, if you will, because i was supposed to be delirious from my

wound, my former life came up as a slave, and with that aspect of doing that first-person, my friend and i we ended up taking it to a another level that we really did not have control of. it was like we were being guided, if you will, spiritually or whatever you want to call it, but, you know, as nicole said, there were people there who literally were in tears, because in my o'leary them, i was back with my family -- in my delirium , i was back with my family. and i actually found myself crying so, you know, i am not saying what nicole does as a third person doesn't work, but i

think through my studies and research and experiencing some things, first-person can bring something else to the table that defies explanation. it really does. >> thank you. over on this side. >> thank you both. nicole this is the first time i have seen you, unless you might have been down at the state museum. >> no. >> that was so nicely done. but i have seen bill. in fact, i saw you around nashville. i saw you in madison. i saw you at the madison library and most recently at fort begley, where you portrayed a sailor, and i would like you to speak about that a little bit, because it was just entirely unknown to me. please speak on that a bit. >>speak about that a little bit, because it was i would be happy to. thank you for remembering me.

well, that is one aspect of the civil war in middle tennessee that does not get a lot of attention, and i do belong to a civil war naval units come but they are based in massachusetts so actually, my unit is there but i am here, so i represent what would be the western theater in the naval experience, and there were a lot of african american sailors connected with the navy and the gunboats and river warfare that went on on the rivers here and a lot of the major battles that were fought, some lost, some won they were fought for control of the rivers, so i knew this story just from reading, and i made my connection to this particular naval unit in massachusetts, and

my commanding officer was tickled to death he had somebody in tennessee so i inadvertently joined. me and a buddy of mine, we had been doing civil war army for a long time, and i have got to be honest with you. doing the navy is a breeze compared to wearing this all of the time, and there are not very many sailors so learning this story is beneficial and telling the real story of what happened here. i have enjoyed it, and it is kind of weird, because the fact of the matter is i was in the navy, and i was involved in river warfare, so it is kind of strange in that aspect so i wanted to do it because it is

part of the experience here, and black men were sailors here, and they fought here, so i feel like i am just doing my part in telling that story and, you know, it is nice to change. right here is regular but the sailor suit is cool, too. >> thank you. yes, sir? >> one aspect of being a historian is gathering primary source material and rendering an interpretation, and each of you to give the interpretations you do must have done a significant amount of research. can you each describe what you have done and what you have looked at and what you continue to look at to render your interpretations? >> well, i can answer that here because i am from around here.

historical interpretation can take a lot of different roads and i am not a scholar, and i don't consider myself a historian by any stretch of the imagination. i just enjoy history because it is there. it is there in front of me every day. i recall a time years ago, i bought a book on the battle of nashville complete with historical markers and it designations, and i think it was one of my days off from the fire department. instead of just going home and doing what i normally do, i got in the car, gassed it up, and i went all through the markers right? then i just picked up books and videos and read and, you know, meditated and went to where they were and just to be on that spot it kind of brings a out you know?

i look at the aspect of both sides, you know, it is not just the federal side, the union side. it is what the confederates went through. i am familiar with what happened down here in franklin. i had to learn my way through that years ago, and i still find it fascinating, the battle of nashville, springhill, river warfare on the cumberland. there is so much here that i think a lot of people take for granted, and it makes a difference when you go there and you take your book with you which i have done. eyewitness accounts, different battles, and i am walking in really learning and seeing. i know what happened here, ok? the battle of gettysburg. i took my wife to gettysburg. i have been there several times and several events, but to walk

across the field from seminary ridge during the charge and then stop and knowing that at that exact spot, what occurred, all of the way across to the other side, i had a profound experience of going to charleston, south carolina with my friend norman here, and he and i were at the island, where our parent regiment from massachusetts, attack fort wagner, which is an experience in itself, and brother norman can attest to it, and to be there and what they had to endure, you do not have to go very far so physically experiencing that and the research, it all ties together and you get a level of respect

and knowledge that you just can't get anywhere else. i mean, that is my little wheel to it. >> for me, i take the more scholar approach, because i cannot travel as much, though i would love to. and it is research. i am grabbing books. i am looking at narratives. i am looking at the footnotes in a lot of the scholarship and then going back to try to find where that source was, and if i cannot get there, it is fine -- it seems they cannot get it for me, but i have just a ton of research that i have to go through and figure out, you know, if i am looking at a particular area. then let me find things on that area. if i am looking at, you know, somebody is asking a generalization, i don't like generalizations to your much, he

does every experience was different, but let me grab a couple of sources and let me comprise a portrait for them, so i rely heavily on scholarship and materials, and that is just because i wish i could, you know, take that information and have that physical experience in going to some of these sites and looking at the quarters and looking at the house and understanding the layout of the ground, so since i cannot do that, google earth is my friend, and taking what great historians have written before and making sure it's somebody asks a question -- if somebody asks a question, i can take their work so if a layperson says, what exactly happened and why? so that is my approach. as a public historian, i like taking the academic side and relating it to the public, and you do that by understanding the scholarship and the research and

presenting it in a way that makes sense. not that academics don't make sense. you are very lovely people, and i can't do anything about you but some of you all know how you write. it is for each other. >> i would be remiss if i did not add one thing sir. experiencing the knowledge and sharing the information, that plays heavily with what we do as a group because, you know, i am not the only person who has a wealth of information. it is shared equally amongst my friends and comrades in our group, and they bring a lot to the table with information, and they share it with the rest of us. from places they have been, places we have gone together as a group so we have our meetings , and i would not call it a

study group, but we bring things to our meetings that would be of interest to everyone, so everybody gets that same piece of knowledge that maybe they didn't have before, and that is one thing i like about the third teens united states: troops, because it is like i said we joke -- 13 united states colored troops, because it is like i said. we take something away. >> there is a person over here, and then we will come back every year. sir, go right ahead. >> first off, parents day week thanks for being 20th century. we all appreciate that. my question i guess is from what i have learned, the united states navy was much more receptive to having black troops before the army.

in your research did you ever encounter anything that showed that there were also black crews in the confederate navy? >> you are speaking of black sailors, if you will? >> yes. >> yes, there were. their primary job was more like menial, lower tasks, if you will. stoker's down in the engine room, and i am sure they had canon ears -- cannoneers, but they were probably coal stoakers in the navy, and if they were from an area where the navy was situated, they were more likely familiar with the area, the waterways. they were probably used as guides and what have you guides, quartermaster is.

they could navigate certain areas that weren't known to the federal navy. of course, that happened on both sides, and the real irony of it is the federal navy wasn't segregated. the army was. the federal navy was integrated, because of the type of duty, the conditions. the truth of the matter is there were a lot of african-american men in the navy that had prior sailing experience. they could have been freed man from up north massachusetts new york, wherever, and they could have been working on whalers or some kind of oceangoing vessel, or they could have lived in canada or somewhere free and took their experience lying be waterways of the st. lawrence or up in michigan or anywhere like that and joined the navy.

the conditions were not that great on board ship. you could find the combat was rough. the enclosures, the sleeping quarters, pretty much everybody was on top of everybody, and the truth of the matter is there was a lot of white or black guys that were just not going to handle that. i mean, it was just something they did not want anything to do with except like your professional type sailors, you know, but your average man there was a period of time in the federal navy where the army were manning riverboats and gunboats, particularly on the mississippi river and that was kind of like the first introduction of a river type warfare, because they were using vessels, but they were putting soldiers on them with sea experience, and it was kind of rough on them. they could not handle it but

there were a lot of reasons why a lot of blacks chose the navy over the army, but primarily, i would say it was previous experience. >> thank you. sarah? >> to answer both his question and that one up there. the american navy as a veteran a navy veteran. over four years. the american navy has been integrated since the revolution. and my question for you is with your group, are their connections to other groups around the country? is there a national organization of groups like yours? >> yes sir. i want to clarify one thing though. yes, the navy is integrated. it was integrated up until the spanish-american war, when

certain rates were closed down to blacks which previously had promotional opportunities. quartermasters, gunners mates. after the spanish-american war, a lot of black sailors were relegated to commissary and stewards duty, massmen 0-- messmen, and that went up to the outbreak of the korean war were just after the outbreak of the korean war to world war ii. the majority of black men that were assigned to the fleet were stewards and cooks. they served in the officers quarters, and they cleaned the officers quarters and washed dishes. they did it on every particular ship in the fleet, submarine. they had a battle station, but

they could not go any higher than -- and i think the last time they could do anything in the way of promotion was the american civil war. how ironic. but we, as a national organization, the united states colored troops reenactors, i would say it is nationwide. wouldn't you say? it covers a lot of states. there are a lot of different african-american civil war units that we participated with. i had the honor of participating in a battle reenactment, to where my ancestor had actually fought and won the medal of honor in a place called newmarket heights. it was in the richmond campaign of 1864. and we had nearly a hundred guys show up from different units like ours, and it was a great

time. it was a great time and a great experience, and i can safely say that when we take the field, we try to honor those men and what they did in a good way and i have always had good experiences in the field, but that was particularly special. so we are a small -- we are like -- i look at black reenactors as the navy seals of the civil war. >> yes. >> we have got a big, big navy. but we have got very, very few black seals. probably 300 400 him and maybe come out of the hundreds of thousands of guys who do this and enjoy the history. it is worldwide. it is not just nationwide.

i have met guys from ireland, germany, canada, and they provide a wealth of knowledge and they enjoy it. we have even got one reenactor in hawaii. by himself. so -- hey, he is having fun. i am happy for him. but black reenactors, we are a bit of a premium, and there are not a lot of us, so we get requested for a lot of events and a lot of things here in the southeast, because it is just us , the 13th u.s. colored troops, and the chattanooga, tennessee the 44th colored troops and they just marched with us, so we do a lot together here locally. >> this will be our final question. ask a question for nicole. nicole, you mentioned working

with children earlier, and i wonder if you could share with us some of the common questions they have with you about slavery and about emancipation? >> sure. a lot of the questions i get from kids, they want to know commonly -- actually, kids are kind of violent. i will put that up front. they will ask, why did the slaves not kill their masters? and then really getting into kind of understand the circumstances. well, let's take that question. are there consequences involved? well, yes, and what are those consequences? and having them understand that you just can't go around because you are enslaved and you are angry commie just can't go around killing people. that is not how this works, and is actually kind of scary how violent these kids are, because that is the number one, why wasn't there a rebellion and people killed, and you really

have to rein them back in, but a lot of times they want to know about family. you are laughing, but it is true. last year in chattanooga i had to rein this one little boy in who was like, let's go. we are leading this charge, and we are going to get some heads and i was, no, no we are not. we are going to turn this around, and let's be a little more rational. i was excited about his passion for freedom, his message, not so much. but for the kids, they want to know about home life, really. i have had a student who was i racial ask well, what would have happened to me? he wanted to know which community he would have fit into. they think -- children, and no offense, adults, but children think a lot more broadly than we do. they put them -- they are more ready to put themselves in that situation and then think about it and how they would react and

what their options would be, so they are going to ask, what kind of food am i eating, what kind of clothing am i wearing what do you mean i only get shoes once a year, what you mean i have to work from the age of around seven until age 70 from sunup to sundown, and it is hard work? i don't understand why someone would own another person. that is like the number one question other than murderous intent is why was there slavery. i don't understand why they couldn't do it themselves. some really good questions, but when you start talking about well, let's look at the size of the land, then they are, ok, i understand that, but how come slaves weren't paid? kids are very justice minded and you have to really kind of take them back to the time period. the last year though i think was -- i want to say chattanooga kind of blew my mind with some of the kids. there was an all girls school that came, and i did my thing

talking about what an enslaved woman would do as a cook, wrapped up, and one of the girls asked me flat-out, what about sexual assault, and i have never had anybody ask, and i just stopped, and i stared at her for a second because i was, i really do not know how to answer this, and the teachers were, answer the question, and i was -- because, you know, you cannot really answer all of these questions, because somebody might get mad, and you end up on the news, and that is it, but when i looked at her, she had a dead serious look on her face. there was no laughing. she wanted to know. how do you handle that? what would have happened to me? and i have no idea what was going on in her personal life but something triggered that question to say so how did these women deal with that, because i know it happened, and i know it still happens, so talk about that, and we had an honest conversation about how enslaved

women and some white women they were not in control of their bodies, and these men would do whatever they wanted to, because they else they owned that body. not the person. you are looking at humanity. they are looking at a body that they can do whatever they want, and it was really interesting watching them think about the question that was asked here the information, and then process it, because for them, i guess something clicked, where you can say that enslaved people are helpless in some senses, but to actually hear about some of the things that would have happened and as those young girls were growing up in a society today where that is almost the norm, unfortunately and to know that some things have not changed through time, they really connected with that and they were trying to grasp for straws and say, so what you are saying is this has always been happening

. though can we make this stop? i don't hatch althe answers. i don't have it, but that was something that was a reality for a lot of women, and that was something that they dealt with. if they were "fortunate" to where the man who had their way acknowledged the child that could have been produced, then that child miffed a better life, and perhaps that woman miffed a better -- might haved a better life. but there were no guarantees in that. there were some women who willingly entered relationships for that game time ble to make sure if i have a child, they might have a better life than i had. but for those who were unwillingly put in those situations, this man's wife could be utterly disgusted, sell her in one direction and sell the child another direction all because it was

something she has no control over. with kids i never know what i am going to get, but i always get the best conversations. like bill was saying, he enjoys the first person because it puts him there and brings people to him. i like the real conversations because they are looking for a real answer. i may not be able to answer that in first person, but we can sit down and talk about freedoms. not just emancipated freedoms, but freedom and mind and body. talk about the different roles of white women and black women and how their world sometimes were intertwined and how they had no control over their bodies and how sometimes today that is still and -- an issue. >> as dr. west comes forward to