>> sundays in february, american history tv will air a selection with former korean war pows recorded by the korean war legacy foundation. the first interview is with charles, who after enlisting in the army, became a sergeant in charge of a small unit in south korea. he was captured by the chinese and held as a pow from 1950-1953. that's sunday at 10:00 on c-span3. >> the political landscape has changed with the 114 congress. there are 12 new republicans and one new democrat in the senate. there are also 108 women in congress, including the first african-american in the house,

and the first female veteran in the senate. keep track of the members of congress using congressional chronicle on c-span.org. it has a lot of useful information, including voting results and statistics about each new congress. new congress, best access on c-span. >> historical interpreters describe what it would've been like to be a female slave in the female color troops in the u.s. civil war. they describe some of the decisions their characters would have faced, and what factors may have influenced them. the speakers also share how they train and the research that goes into the roles. this hour-long rest -- presentation is organized by the tennessee civil war centennial -- cisco entail commission. >> i am shauna jackson.

i served as the dean for the winston county campus for columbia state. i trust that you have enjoyed your day today. i often tell people that i was raised in ohio, and where i grew up, the civil war was a paragraph or two in a history book. the north one, slavery ended and that was all we needed to know. it was not something that needed to be discussed or remembered. it wasn't until i joined columbia state community college and began working in franklin that i realized the civil war was more than a story in a book. i began to understand that this war impacted real people, real families, communities, businesses, and its presence is still felt today. i have the opportunity to serve on the board of franklin's charge and the battle of franklin trust, and while our primary work is restoring, preserving, and reclaiming franklin's battlefields

education and advocacy is no less important. what i have learned of my own history since being in franklin is that my great, great grandmother, laura charleston, was born into slavery in east texas, and she was eight years old when president lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation, which freed the slaves in territories, which is something that not everyone understands about the proclamation, and emphasized the enlisting the black soldiers in the union army. it was with this proclamation that the war to preserve the union became a revolutionary struggle for the abolishment of slavery. we cannot discuss this period in our history without talking about slavery, however painful it may be to some, and we cannot examine its outcomes without acknowledging our colored troops

that fought for freedom, and we are going to do both of those in this final session. i applaud dr. west and his team, who have put this together to put the session on this program, because it is very relevant. i am going to introduce both of the people you see on your panel. i'm going to go ahead and do their bios, and then they are going to speak to you individually, and then we will open it back up for questions. first, nicole moore is a public historian, museum professional historian, museum professional blogger, consultant, and interpreter of slave life. she holds a bachelors in psychology and a masters in history, with a concentration in public history from the university of north carolina at charlotte. her masters thesis, presenting slavery, the interpretation of slavery and its place in public history and at an historic plantation, examined how historic sites delivered slave life to visitors.

she is a contributing author to the book best practices for interpreting slavery at historic sites from a publishing group. today, she consults with historic sites on best practices on how to tell the story of enslaved men, women, and children through programming exhibits, and educational materials. she is also an educator who develops school programs, public programs, and special events for three historic houses. now, our soldier. william bill radcliffe is a u.s. navy veteran who served in vietnam. he attended fisk university in nashville, tennessee, and is a 27-year veteran of the national -- nashville fire department from which he retired. he has been a reenactor -- reenactor with the third team

united states colored infantry for over 25 years. the u.s. college troops were -- promote the greater awareness and understanding of african-american military service and sacrifice during civil war. they are lasting -- their lasting contribution to freedom and continued legacy and relevance to freedom and democracy. he has been a member of the tennessee civil war sus when tenniel commission and has made numerous appearances on television and documentaries and was a model of a civil war soldier in a national cemetery. please join me in welcoming both of our speakers. [applause] >> i am sorry, y'all. i was outside in the cold today, so now my allergies are kicking my tail. good afternoon, everyone, how are you doing? great. what i am going to do is

probably going to be different than what you expect. when i do interpretation, i usually do third person and not first, so if you were looking an exact portrayal, i am sorry. however, this allows me to speak directly to you in a way that you will understand, and this works well with audiences, is -- because when you are in first person a lot of times come you cannot break your character to engage your audience, and you can see that there would be a question on their face, and you cannot answer it, because that is not your time period, so what i'm going to do is real talk and kind of go over in its patient and freedom and what that probably would have felt like, and we will get it from a couple of point of views, and am i talking too fast, because i feel i am talking really fast? i am good? all right. and then i am just going to let

bill go, and he will be fine. then we will open it up for questions. so last year, when i was at chattanooga, i got an opportunity to interpret to the school kids, and it was really amazing. what i like about children is that they are pretty much blank slates, and i can help them find a love of history that a lot of us now -- well, these are history lovers in the room so , you all do not have this problem, but for more of the public who think that history is boring, i can actually bring that love of history to children and get them really engaged, and it was because of that engagement last year that i am here this year, so instead of talking about just what the everyday life of an enslaved woman would be, i will talk to you a little bit about what might be going through her mind now that she is facing freedom. so this first part, we will talk about if i were an enslaved woman, minding my business

doing my thing, and i hear these rumblings of my cohorts talking about our plantation is being abandoned, now is time for us to go. and i am hearing about these things as i am going about my daily duties, and i start thinking to myself, well, yes. i probably could leave, find complete freedom, get away from here. i am tired of doing these people's dishes, and the food that i burnt and had to redo took me forever. maybe i do want to leave. at this point in my life, i have no ties. i have no husband. i have no kids. why not? what do i have to lose? i have nothing to lose. the only thing i have to gain is my freedom, so i decide, who do i let in on this secret, because, yes, i heard you all talking back there, but i cannot trust you.

i do not know who is going to tell somebody else what the plan is, and then everybody gets caught, nobody gets freedom, and my life is made measurable. so while i hear you in the background, i am going to plot on my own. when do i do this? how do i do this? where am i going? when i get to wherever it is i am going, what am i going to do with myself? i have some skills. i am a seamstress. i can cook. i can do a little bit of this, a little bit of that. let me pack whatever little things that i have, slip out quietly into the night, and go through the woods. i am going to do what my grandmother and what i have heard my great grandmothers to do, which is following be drinking board. i am going to look up and follow the big dipper, and i am going to look at the moss on the

trees. i know it is cold, so i am going to grab my cloak, even though i have not mended it for the winter. and i am going to grab my shoes, even though they are not mended. i am going to move swiftly and find those safehouses that i have heard something about, and i'm going to hope that in the end, everything is all right and as i make this journey, i am cognizant that if i get caught i have absolutely zero idea of what is going to happen to me. i do not know if i will find somebody who will assist me in my journey, or am i going to find somebody that says, hey all right, free money, come with me. will i make it to a union contraband camp where i can at , least find work there and hope for my freedom with that? i am not really sure.

i am just going to take a risk and roll the dice and go. and in this scenario, of course, i make it wherever i am going. i can start my life brand new. freedom has come for all, but what about those i left behind who waited for official freedom? you know, what are they going to do? are they going to stay down there? should i go back to where i came from to bring them up to my new life that i have, those close friends that i have, or should i, you know, just forget everything and start over? these are some of the conversations i am having in my head because my life has suddenly shifted from enslavement to one of complete and total freedom, but do i really have complete and total freedom? can i walk the streets at night? can i visit my friends without fear of harassment, danger or , worse? that is kind of the decision i am going through if i decided to go.

flipping back to the very beginning of this scenario, i hear those whispers and rumblings of freedom, and, yes let's go escape. this scenario though, i have a husband. i have children, and i am fortunate. my family is still with me. my husband, i know, is very hesitant on escaping. he says, let's just wait, wait it out. let's see what happens. i am a little bit like, well, we have been waiting for a while yes, let's go escape. while, and it has not happened yet, but we will continue to wait. and while we wait and wait and wait, we hear the tales of others who have gone on and gotten freedom. we hear the tales of those who have run away, and they have been captured. and he lets me know, each night that i question the decision that we decided to stay, when there is a possibility that we could have had a new start at life. what about our kids? how are you going to carry the three of them? they are young.

where are we going to go? do we leave two of the behind -- of them behind and take the oldest one in hopes that we can find a new life, start a new life, and when freedom comes for all, we can go back for our two children? so now you're asking me to choose between freedom and my children, and do i leave one or two and then come back? that is not playing fair. the next day, somebody else has gone off, and they have successfully left, and i look back again and say, so what are we going to do here? well, where are we going to go? what are we going to do? yes, i may be a blacksmith and you a seamstress, but then what? all right, we will play this game, and the next day, as we hear more and more and more, i am tired of waiting for freedom.

why can't we take it? all right, you go. we will stay here. so you're asking me to leave everything that i know and everything that i hold dear because i don't want to wait. these are some of the decisions that enslaved african-americans faced. let's face it. freedom is great. it is what you want, but at what cost? do you leave behind your family? do you leave behind your friends? do you leave behind everything you know, or you do you wait for emancipation, which is fantastic. the only thing about emancipation, you have to understand when these millions of africans americans were freed, they were freed, but they had no home, no clothing, no food, no shelter, no jobs. it was just you are free, but i am free to do what? so do i go into the unknown

with legal freedom, or do i take my life skills and make life happen for myself? it is hard to fully understand in 2014 these decisions, because it is just hard to have that conversation with yourself today. what would you do? and i don't like it when people ask me, well, what would you do, because i don't know. these are real-life decisions that had to be made, some of them within minutes, hours of, hey, this idea came up. why don't you come? i don't know if i could leave my family. i have a five-year-old and a husband. i have a hard enough time traveling and doing stuff for a couple of days without them with me, so i can't imagine thinking to myself, do i stay in this life and hope for something better with them, or do i take

the chance now and go out and hope that what i find is better and i can do something for them? so when people ask, why do you do this, and why do you portray this life, this is why. we don't have these conversations. we don't have to make these decisions today, but we do need to understand that the choices that others may lead us to where we are today, and in every aspect, we need to understand those decisions. they may not have been the best ones. they may have been the best decisions, but understand why they had to happen, what criteria needed to be met for somebody to say they would leave everything and go for broke before i can even begin to try to judge the past. i do not like judging those in history because i was not there. i did not have to make that choice. but by studying their lives and understanding the circumstances, would i leave my family today? no, but i can fully understand

why, let's say, my great great-grandmother would have left hers, hoping for something better. i can fully understand why someone would stay if an opportunity of freedom came, and instead of taking that opportunity, they would have stayed. it is not that they did not want to be free. they just wanted more, and if freedom did not mean freedom with family with a place to stay, with security, then maybe i will wait a little bit longer until those things are available to me. so, when we talk about emancipation and freedom, and when we talk about slavery, in general, and when we just talk about the thoughts and feelings and the emotions that these people had, we can't think of it in our terms. we have to think of it in theirs, and it is important to understand, you know, when you grew up, you had those choose your adventure books. sometimes when we interpret

history, we have to decide especially if you are doing portrayals, which adventure are you going to choose, and you cannot always pick the one that ends happily ever after. sometimes you have to show that there were risks involved in -- involved, and those risks and they did not lead to the best of circumstances, but fortunately, for you all today i choose my adventure to take my family, find freedom, and live a better life. what i think that we really need to understand about this particular time period and enslaved men and women and those who were fighting with the union and those who were running away and those who were doing things to better their own lives, we have to honor that decision, and we have to do that by speaking about it, by studying it, by learning it, but putting it in

our schools and saying that it the war was not just the north won, slavery ended, yea. we have to look at the nuances of it. we have to understand the battles. we have to understand not just battles but home life. we have to understand people. we have to look at them as people, first and foremost understanding that these are people thoughts feelings, and , the emotions, and these are the same things they struggled with 150 plus years ago, and without that, we are lost, and without that, we cannot accurately portray them, and we cannot accurately discuss, and we can't do future generations that service of broadening their horizons of better understanding, so that is my spiel. i am going to turn it over to -- yes, it is your turn. i talked. my throat hurts. i am going to turn it over to mr. bill ratcliffe. he is going to be fine.

[applause] you got this. you do not have a wireless. you see? >> good afternoon, everybody. i cannot speak in the third person. my makeup does not allow me to do that. i am one of those funny people who has to think about what they are going to say and before they forget it, write it down, so with sister nicole's wonderful dissertation that i enjoyed, i am going to do my best to

follow-up with maybe something you all can take away from this experience. i have to tell you, this experience for me, i will be honest with you. yes, i was a sailor, a firefighter, and a reenactor about 26 years, and i am extremely nervous. but having said that, i am going to take my time and my little notes and pass along what i have to tell you. i want to thank you all for being here. i want to thank all of the honored guests that were in attendance, my associates on the sesquicentennial -- the commission. [laughter] my brothers and sisters from the 13th united states colored troops, mr. and mrs. hill, mr. and mrs.

overton, and the lovely mrs. radcliffe. we had a great day today. the honor is mine to be standing here before you today as a member of the sesquicentennial commission and as a representative of history 150 years ago. this journey has been a true blessing for me. the people i have been associated with, for what we have accomplished during this 150th commemoration of the civil war in the state of tennessee, for the wonderful relations that i have made and for what i have been able to learn and to share and to experience. as a civil war reenactor it is true we live history, experience trials, the degradations in the lives of all who preceded us. yes, it is fun. it is fun to run around, loading -- load and fire, shooting at

the enemy, knowing that you can go home. but also at the same time, there is something more. it is like a time portal before us. it is something unseen that defies explanation. to those of us who have experienced this, it calls us. it beckons us, even. to look a little deeper. it might sound strange or curious, but to those of us who care not much for history, but to actually go to a place where history occurred, to walk the same ground and be where regular human beings went forth, whichever side they fought on, to give up all the more willing

the last full measure of devotion. for what i believe is truly remarkable, these are not just words. they never have been. the places, the battlefields from virginia to texas, are sites where real people gave away their futures. they are there, and they will always be there. be it bull run, shiloh gettysburg, nashville, or franklin. it happened here on this soil of the united states of america. to walk these sites, take us places where sacrifices were made, where we can only meditate and say, thanks.

i have been to places that appear peaceful and tranquil. oh, that we knew what they knew. our saving grace is we have a chance now through efforts of our state tourism, our sesquicentennial commission, the people of our state who choose to learn and share, this time portal will continue to beckon us all. for us to read, investigate, be a living witness, pass on to the future generations and older generations that the truth can really set you free. i, speaking for myself, have found that freedom. i have freedom from doubt, from ignorance of living in a frame where i would not be compelled

to know my family or its history. fortune showed me my parents were willing to tell me what i desired to know. treasures were revealed. i did achieve this freedom by living and experiencing this journey. i am not saying my journey should be a requirement for one's personal freedom, but i am an advocate of personal growth through education. no one should be able to make anyone do anything. that is what the blood of millions in times past was sacrificed, but we do need to take pause. we need to see where we are and see where we have been and see where we are going.

wouldn't it be great if all of our personal journeys ended up a national journey, where all could benefit together? in closing, i would like to say i am truly honored to be a part of such a great group these past years. who accepted me and made me feel welcome. i thank you all, and god bless you all. [applause] >> thank you again to our panelists, and i would like to open this up for questions.

if you have particular questions, there are microphones on two isles. you're welcome to come forth and ask any questions you would like. i see someone right here. please go ahead. >> yes, this is to nicole and also bill, if you want to answer . what is the worst interpretation you have seen of enslaved life and you do not have to name the place. you can keep that anonymous, if you want. >> would you like to? >> i don't think my microphone is on. yes, it is, because i took the other one off. i don't think there's a place that necessarily has -- i won't say that i've been someplace where i've seen the worst. i can tell you what the worst would be. actually, i do know a couple of places that have been the worst. but the worst to me is having

an -- uneducated interpreters. you need to have people who know what they're talking about, who understand the history and can deliver without bias. >> absolutely. >> to me, the worst places are -- for those that do first person this does not include them. for those that do third person, the worst places are where you have one or two african-americans and they're the only ones that talk about slavery. especially if you're doing third person, everybody on your staff should be able to give some part of the history. and if you're not doing that, you are doing a disservice, not only to your staff members, you are dishonoring those that you are remembering. and you are doing the largest disservice to your public who is there to learn. it doesn't matter who says it. as long as the information is accurate, true to the site, which is important, and delivered with unbiased honesty

. then you can't go wrong. when you don't do these things, not only are you the worst interpreter, you are the worst site and do not deserve the attention of your public. a little harsh but that's how i feel. >> anything? >> no, you covered it all. [laughter] >> there's another person here. and then we'll go to the other side. >> i guess this would be addressed mostly to nicole. unless mr. radcliff, unless you have something to add to it. but i guess in a similar vein, what is the most difficult or most challenging interpretation that you yourself have done? >> one of the most difficult that i've done was -- it was a first person. thrafse a very strong reason why i don't do first person a lot. and it's because i do like to

engage in the audience and really get them to kind of look past the clothing and everything to really understand the history. but i did a first person interpretation where we talked about sisters who had been separated. i don't have a sister. so for me, it was just doing the interpretation. i had two older white women come up to me in tears afterwards. and they were talking about how they were moved because they couldn't imagine having someone forcibly separate them. and then reuniting like i think our time period was like 30 years later, these two sisters reunited. and you can't control other people's emotions. but to really see them touched by that and not just take it as oh well, this is a nice little script that they're going over. but make that correlation into their lives and make that connection. that's great. because what you want people to do is you want them to make connections personally. you want them to have that.

>> i would think that what comes to mind, you know, nicole speaks of third person. what i'm most comfortable in the first person. because that way, i can do a what i need to do and hide. but at the same time, i think when i do a first person, my research and my will and the belief that i'm telling a story that needs to be told, i feel more in that aspect. i had an experience that -- well i've had several in re-enactments and different venues. but this particular one we were in andersonville, georgia. >> uh-huh. >> we were at the p.o.w. camp in andersonville.

and we portrayed prisoners of war. and there were black prisoners and white prisoners. and our confederate captors had us in an area that was pretty much the same area where the prisoners were kept. and i portrayed a wounded soldier. and i needed to go to the surgeon. and in my delirium if you will, because i was supposed to be delirious from my wound, a lot of my former life came up as a slave. and with that aspect of doing that first person, my friend and i, we ended up taking it to another level that we really had no control.

it was like we were -- we were being guided if you will. spiritually or whatever you want to call it. but, you know, as nicole said, there were people there that literally were in tears because in my delirium i was back with my family. and things happened to my family that i recalled. and i actually found myself crying. so you know, i'm not saying what nicole does as third person doesn't work. but i think through my studies and research and experiencing some things, first person can bring something else to the table that defies explanation. >> uh-huh. >> it really does. >> thank you. over on this side. >> thank you both. nicole this is the first time i've seen you and unless you might have been down in

wessington at the state museum. >> nope. >> that's so nicely done. but i have seen -- bill in fact, i've followed you around nashville. i saw you in madison. saw you at the madison library. most recently, at fort negle where you portrayed a sailor. and i would like for you to speak about that a little bit because it was just entirely unknown to me. please speak on that a bit. >> i would be happy to. well thank you for remembering me. well that's one aspect of the civil war here in middle tennessee that doesn't get a lot of attention. and i do belong to a civil war naval unit. but they are based in massachusetts. so actually, my unit is there. but i'm here. so i represent what would be

the western theater in the naval experience. and there were a lot of african-american sailors connected with the navy and the gunboats and marine warfare that went on these rivers here and a lot of the major battles that were fought. some lost. some won. were fought for control of the rivers. so i knew this story. just from reading. and i made my connection to this particular naval unalt in massachusetts, in my commanding officer was tech led to death. he had somebody in tennessee. so i inadvertently joined. me and a buddy of mine we both had been doing civil war army for a long time. and i got to be honest with you. doing the navy is a breeze compared to wearing this all

the time. and there aren't very many sailors. so knowing and learning their story is beneficial in telling the real story of what happened here. i've enjoyed it. and it's kind of queered because of the fact of the matter -- kind of weird because of the fact of the matter i was in the navy and involved in river marine so strange in that aspect. i wanted to do it because it's part of the experience here. and black men were sailors here. and they fought here and i feel like i'm doing my part in telling that story. and it's nice to change up. this right here is regular but the sailor suit is cool, too. >> thank you. >> yes, sir.

>> one aspect of being an his torn is gathering primary source material and rendering an interpretation. and each of you to give the interpretations you do must have -- must have done a significant amount of research. can you each describe what you did -- what you've done and what you've looked at and what you've tried to continue to look at to render your interpretations. >> well, i can answer that here because i'm from around here. historical interpretation can take a lot of different roads. and i'm not a scholar. and i don't consider myself an his torn by any stretch of the imagination. i just enjoy history because it's there. it's there in front of me. every day. i recall a time years ago i bought a book on the battle of

nashville, complete with historical markers and designations. and i think it was my -- one of my days off from the fire department instead of just going home and doing what i normally do. i got into the car and gassed it up. i rode all over town and went all to the markers right? then i just picked up books and videos and read and, you know meditated and went to where they were and just to be on that spot kind of brings something out, you know? i look at the aspect of both sides. you know, not just the federal side. the union side. it's what the confederates went through. i'm familiar with what happened down here in franklin. i had to learn my way through that years ago. and i still find it fascinating.

the battle of nashville, spring hill, the river warfare on the cumberland. there's so much here that i think a lot of people take for granted. and it makes a difference when you go there. and you take your book with you. which i've done. eyewitness accounts, different battles. and i'm walking and i'm really learning what i'm seeing. i know what happened there. ok? the battle of gettysburg. i took my wife to gettysburg. i've been there several times. and several events. but to walk across the field from seminary ridge during pickett's charge and then stop and knowing that exact spot what occurred all the way across to the other side. i had the profound experience of going to charleston, south carolina, with my friend norm, here. and he and i were at morris

island where our parent regimen the 54th massachusetts attacked fort wagner which is an experience in itself, brother norm can attest to it. and to be there and what they had to endure, you didn't have to go very far. so physically experiencing it research, it all ties in together. and you get a level of respect and knowledge that you just can't get anywhere else. i mean, that's -- that's my little wheel to it. >> for me, i take the more scholar approach. because i can't travel as much. so i would love to. and it's research. i'm grabbing books. i'm looking at narratives.

i'm looking at the footnotes in a lot of the scholarship. and then going back to trying to find where that source was. and if i can't physically get there, it's finding somebody that has access to j store and see if they can't get it for me. but i have just a ton of research that i have to go through and figure out, you know, all right, if i'm looking at a particular area, then let me find things on that area. if i'm looking at, you know, somebody's asking a generalization, i don't like generalizations too much. because every experience was different. but let me grab a couple of sources and just kind of comprise a portrait for them. so i rely heavily on scholarship and materials. and that's just because i wish i could, you know, take that information and then have that -- that physical experience and going to some of these sites and looking at the quarters and looking at the house and looking at the grounds and understanding the layout. land. but since i can't do that, google earth is my friend.

and i'm taking what the great historians have written before and making sure that you know, if somebody asks a question, i can take their work which might be very academic and relate it to a lay person who just wants to know, so what exactly happened and why? so that's -- that's my approach. as a public his torn i like taking the academic side and then relating it to the public. and you do that by understanding the scholarship and the research and then presenting it in a way that makes sense. not to say that academics don't make sense. you all do. you're very lovely people and i can't do anything without you. but some of you y'all know you a y'all write. it's for each other. >> i would be remiss if i didn't add one thing, sir. experiencing the knowledge and sharing of information, that plays heavily with what we do as a group because i am not the

only person that has a quote and quote information. it's shared equally among my friends and comrades and our group. and they bring a lot to the table with information. and they share it with the rest of us from places they've been. or places we've gone together. as a group. so we have our meetings and i wouldn't call it a study group. but we bring things, our meetings that would be of interest to everyone. so everybody gets that same piece of knowledge that maybe they didn't have before. and that's -- that's one thing that i like about the 13th united states color troops. because it's like i said in my little talk, we don't just run around and shoot and march. you know we bring things to

our meeting that folks can share and talk and discuss over and maybe take something away with. we -- you're welcome. >> the person over here and go back over here. certify, go right ahead. -- sir, go right ahead. >> bill, since this is veterans week thank you for being a 20th century vet. we appreciate that. my question is from what i've learned, the united states navy was much more receptive to having black troops before the army. in your research, did you ever encounter anything that showed that there were also black troops in the confederate navy? >> i would say -- you're speaking of black sailors? >> yes. >> if you will? yes, there were. their primary job was more like menial lower task if you will.

coal stokers in the engine room. and i'm sure they had cannoneers when they went to battle stations but their primary job were coal stokers in the confederate navy and if they were from an area where the navy was stationed or situated they were more likely familiar with the area. water ways. they probably were used as guides and what have you. guides quartermasters. you know they could navigate certain areas that weren't known to the federal navy. of course, that happened on both sides. and the real irony of it is the federal navy wasn't segregated. the army was. the federal navy was integrated. because of the type of duty, the conditions, the truth of

the matter is there were a lot of african-american men in the navy that had prior sailing experience. they could have been free men from up north, massachusetts or working on whalers or some kind of ocean-going vessel. or they could have lived in canada or somewhere free. and took their experience plying the waterways of the st. lawrence or up in michigan or anywhere like that and joined the navy. the conditions were not that great aboard ship. your confinement. the combat was rough. the enclosures, your sleeping quarters, pretty much everybody was on top of everybody. and the truth of the matter is it was a lot of white guys that just weren't going to handle that, ok? i mean it was something they just didn't want anything to do

with. except like your professional type sailors, you know. but your average man, there's a period of time in the federal navy where the army were manning river boats and gun boats, particularly on the mississippi river. and that was kind of like the first introduction of a river marine type war father because they were using vessels that were contracted to the navy but they were putting soldiers on them with sea experience. and it was kind of rough on them. they couldn't handle it. but there were a lot of reasons why a lot of blacks chose the navy over the army. but primarily i would say it was previous experience. >> thank you. >> sir? >> i can answer both his question and that one up there. or one up there. the american navy as a veteran navy veteran by the way, the war before yours, the american

navy has been integrated since the revolution. but -- and my question for you is with your group, are there connections to other groups around the country? and is there a national organization of groups like yours? >> yegs. i want to clarify one thing, though. yes, the navy is integrated. it was integrated up until the spanish american war. when -- when certain rates were closed down to blacks, that previously had promotional opportunities, quartermasters gunner's mates, after the spanish american war a lot of black sailors were relegated to commissary and steward's duty.

messmen. that went all the way up to the outbreak of the korean war or just after the korean war. through world war two. the majority of black men that were assigned to the fleet were stewards and cooks. they served in the officers' quarters. and they cleaned the officers' quarters and washed dishes. they did it on every particular ship and fleet. every boat. submarine. they had a battle station. but they couldn't go any higher than mess cook. and i think the last time they could do anything in a way of promotion was the american civil war. how ironic. but we have a national organization of united states color troops re-enactors. i would say it's nationwide. wouldn't you say?

covers a lot of states. there are a lot of different african-american civil war units that we participated with. i had the honor a month and a half ago of participating in a battle re-enactment to where my ancestor had actually fought. he won the medal of honor at a place called newmarket heights. it was in the richmond campaign. 1864. and we had near 100 guys show up from different units, black guards. and it was a great time. it was a great time. and a great experience. and i can safely say when we take the field, we try to honor those men and what they did in a good way. and i've always had good experiences in the field. but that was particularly special.

so we're a small -- we're like -- i look at black re-enactors as like the navy seals of the civil war. >> yes. very much so. >> we got a big big, big navy. but we got very, very few black seals. probably 300 or 400 maybe. out of all the hundreds and thousands of guys that do this and enjoy the history and it's worldwide. it's not just nationwide. i've met guys from ireland germany, canada. and they provide a wealth of knowledge and they enjoy it. we have even got one re-enactor in hawaii. >> yeah. >> by himself. [laughter] so -- hey, he's having fun. i'm happy for him. but, you know, black

re-enactors, we're a bit of a premium. and there are not a lot of us. so we get requested for a lot of events and a lot of things here in the southeast. because it's just us chattanooga, tennessee, the 44th u.s. color troops. and they just recently marched with us in the veterans day parade here in nashville. so we do a lot together here locally. >> this will be our final question. >> a question for nicole. nicole, you mentioned working with children earlier. and i wondered if you could share with us some of the common questions that they have for you about slavery and about emancipation. >> sure. a lot of questions that i get from kids, they want to know commonly -- actually, kids are kind of violent. i'll put that up front. i've had kids that have asked me why didn't they kill their masters? a lot. and i have to kind of guide

them back to first of all let's not have murderous intent in our hearts and then really getting them to kind of understand the circumstances, well, let's take that question and are there consequences involved? well, yes. ok. and what are those consequences? and having them understand that, you know you can't just go around because you're enslaved and you're angry, you can't just go around killing people. that's not how this works. and it's actually kind of scary how violent some of these kids are. because that's like the number one -- why wasn't in a rebellion and people were killed? and you really got to reign them back in. and they ask about family. last year in chattanooga i had to reign this one little boy in -- rein this one little boy in and we're leading this charge and we're going to get some heads and i'm like no, we're not. we're going to turn this around. and let's be a little bit more rational. i was, you know, excited about his passion for freedom.

his methods not so much. but for the kids, they want to know about home life really. i've had a student who was biracial ask well, what -- what would have happened to me? he wanted to know which community he would have fit into. they think -- children and no offense to adults, but children think a lot more broadly than we do. they -- they put -- they're more ready to put themselves in that situation. and then think about it and how they would react. and what their options would be. and so they're going to ask, well what kind of food am i eating? what kind of clothes am i wearing? what do you mean i only get shoes once a year? what do you mean i have to work from the age of 7 to 70 and from sunup to sundown and it's hard work? i don't understand why someone would own another person. that is like the number one question. other than murderous intent. is why was there slavery?

i don't understand why they couldn't do it themselves. a really good question. but, you know, when you start to talk about let's look at the size of the land, then they're like all right, well i can understand that. but how come slaves weren't paid? a lot of kids are very justice minded. and you have to really kind of take them back to the time period. last year, though, i think was -- i want to say chooting into a blew my mind away with some -- chattanooga blew my mind away with some of the kids. and i was talking about what an enslaved woman would do as a cook wrapped up and one of the girls asked me flat out, what about sexual assault? and i have never had anybody ask. and i just stopped and i stared at her for a second. i really don't know how to answer this and i looked at the teachers and the teachers were like answer the question. and i was like, very -- because, you can't -- you can't really answer all these

questions if somebody might get mad and you end up on the news and that's it. but when i looked at her, she had dead serious look on her face. there was no laughing. she wanted to know. how do you handle that? what would have happened to me? and i have no idea what was going on in her personal life. but something triggered that question to say, so how did these women deal with this? because i know it happened. and i know it still happens. so talk about that. and we had an honest conversation about how enslaved women, and some white women, they weren't in control of their bodies. and these men would do whatever they wanted to. because they felt that they owned that body. not the person. they're not looking at the -- they're not looking at humanity. they're looking at a body that they can do whatever they want. and it was really interesting watching of them think about the question that was asked, hear the information and then process it.

because for them i guess something clicked where -- you can say that enslaved people were helpless. and in some senses. but to actually hear about some of the things that would have happened and those young girls are growing up, in a society today where that is almost the norm unfortunately and to know some things haven't changed through time, they really connected with it. and they were trying to grasp for straws and say, so what you're saying is this is always been happening? how can we make this stop? and i'm just looking at them like i don't have the answers. but i -- i don't have it. but that's something that was a reality for a lot of women. and that was something that they dealt with. and if they were "fortunate" to where the man who had their way acknowledged the child that could have been produced, then

that child might have had a better life and perhaps that woman might have had a better life. but there were no guarantees in that. for them it was understanding that there were some women who willingly entered relationships for that gamble. to make sure if i have a child they might have a better life than i had. but for those who were unwillingly put in those situations, this man's wife could be utterly disgusted, sell her one direction and the child the other direction. and all because of something she has no control over. so with kids, i never know what i'm going to get but i always get the best conversations which is why -- like bill was saying he enjoys the first person because it puts him there and it brings people to him. i enjoy third person because i can break out of it and have those real conversations because they're looking for a real answer. i might not be able to answer that question in first person

but we can talk about the different roles of women white women, black women. how they are rules were intertwined in they had no control over their body. intel's sometimes today -- and how sometimes today -- >> please thank -- please join me in thanking bill and nicole. [applause] >> the civil war air's here every saturday. to watch more, visit our website. you