keep track of the members of congress using congressional chronicle on c-span.org. the congressional chronicle page has lots of information with statistics of each session of congress, new congress, best access, c-span, c-span 2, c-span radio, and c-span.org. >> moore and radcliffe describe what it would be like to be a female slave. they describe each of the decisions they would have faced and what factors might have

influenced them. and it showed how they prepared for playing slavery and the research that goes into their roles. the hour-long is organized by the tennessee civil war sesquintennial event. i hope you have enjoyed your day today. i tell people i was raised in ohio and where i grew up, the civil war was a paragraph or two. slavery ended. that's all we needed to know. that wasn't nothing to be discussed or deliberated. i began to understand that the civil war was more than a story

in a book. i began to understand this war impacted real people families, communities, businesses, and its presence is still felt today. i had the opportunity to restoring, preserving, and reclaiming the battlefields, education and advocacy is no less important. my great great grandmother was born into slavery in texas and she was 8 years old when the territory was freed held by the confederates. and emphasized the listing.

it was with this proclamation that the war to preserve the union became a revolutionary struggle for the abolishment of slavery. we cannot discuss this period in our history without talking about slavery, however painful it may be to some. and we cannot examine its outcomes without acknowledging our colored troops that fought for freedom. and we are going to do both of those in this final session. i applaud dr. west and his team that's putting it together to put this session on the program because it is very relevant. i'm going to introduce both of the people you see on your panel. i'm going to go ahead and do their bios and they're going to speak to you individually and we're going to open it back up for questions. first, nicole moore is a public historian, museum professional, blogger, consultant, and interpreter of slave life.

she holds a bachelor's in psychology and history where the university of north carolina at charlotte. her master's thesis, presenting slavery, the interpretation of slavery and its place in public history and at historic plantation examined how historic sites delivered slave life to visitors. a contributing author to the book. best practices for interpreting slavery and historic sites from museum from roman and little field public group. today she consults on best practices on how to tell the story of enslaved men, women and children through programming, exhibits, and educational materials. she's an educator that develops public programs and special events for three historic houses. now our soldier. william c. bill radcliffe is a u.s. navy veteran who served in

vietnam. he attended fisk university in nashville, tennessee, and is a 27-year veteran of the fire department from which he retired the. bill has been a reenactor for the 13th united states colored troops infantry for over 25 years. african-american military service and sacrifice in the civil war. he's opinion a member since 2011. bill made multiple appearances in television and historical documentaries and was a model for the first statute of an african-american civil war soldier in a national cemetery.

>> sorry, my allergies are going to kick my tail. hi. when i do interpretation, i do third person and not first. so if you're looking for an exact portrayal, i'm sorry, however, doing third person allows me to speak directly to you in the way you understand. you are first person a lot of the times, you can't break your character to engage their audience. you can see there would be a question on your face. you can't answer it because it's not your time period. what i'm going do is real talk

and kind of go over a little bit on emancipation of freedom and what it might have felt like. and we're going over a couple of point of views. am i talking too fast? i feel like i'm talking too fast. i'm good, all right, i'm going to let bill go. then we'll open it up for questions. last year when i was in chattanooga, i got the opportunity to interpret to the school kids. it was really amazing. what i like about children is that they are pretty much blank slates and i think for people who think history is boring, i could bring history to children

and get them engaged. it was because of that engagement last year that i'm here this year. to talk about what the everyday life of an enslaved woman would be i want to go through what might have been going through her mind now that she's facing freedom. for the first part, i'll talk about if i were an enslaved woman, minding my business, doing my thing. and i hear these rumblings of about our plantation has been abandon abandoned. now's the time for us to go. i thought, hmm how can i do this. maybe i do want to leave, i had

to redo this food and it took me forever. i have no husband, no ties, no kids, what do i have to lose? the only thing i have to gain is my freedom. so i decide, who do i let in on this secret? because, yes, i heard y'all talking back there. but i can't trust you. i don't know who is going to tell somebody else what the plan is and then everybody gets caught, nobody gets freedom, and my life was made miserable. i x cook. a little bit of this and that. let me pack what little things i

have, slip out quietly in the night and go through the woods. i'm going to move silently and swftly. i'm going to find those safe houses that i heard something about. and i'm going to hope that in the end, everything is all right. and as i make this journey, i'm cognizant that if i get caught, i have absolutely zero idea of what's going to happen to me. i don't know if i will find

somebody to assist me in my journey or am i going to find somebody that says, hey, all right, free money. come with me. not sure, going to roll the dice and go. in this scenario, unfortunately, i am going to start my life. freedom has come for all. what about those who i left behind? who waited for official freedom? what are they going to do? are they going to stay there? should i bring them up to the life i have, the close friends i have? or should i forget everything and start over. these are some of the conversations i'm going have in my head because my life has shifted to one of complete and

total freedom. do i have complete and total freedom. can i walk the streets at night. can i visit my friends without fear of harassment, danger, or worse? that's kind of the decision that i'm going through if i decide to go. and this scenario, i have a husband, i have children. my family is still with me. my husband i know is very hesitant on escaping. he says, let's just wait. let's wait it out. let's see what happens. i'm a little bit like well, i've been waiting for a while. and that we're not really ready yet, but we'll continue to wait.

while we wait and could have gone on and gotten freedom. that decision when we decided to stay that when there's a possibility of this life. how about the kids, they're a three of them, they're young. do we leave two of them behind and take the oldest one and hope that we can find a new life, start a new life, and when freedom comes for all, we can go back for our two children. now you're asking me to choose between freedom and my children.

and where are we going to go, what are we going to do. yes, you may be a black smith and you a seamstress, but then what? oh, all right. playing this game. the next day we hear more and more and more, i'm tired of waiting for freedom. why can't we take it. these are the decisions that black americans make. you want your freedom, but at what cost? do you leave behind everything you know or do you wait for

emancipation which is also fantastic. these african-americans were freed, they were freed but they had no home, no clothing, no food, no shelter. it was just that you are freed but i'm free to do what. so do i go into the unknown with legal freedom or do i take my freedom and skills and make life happen for myself? it's hard to fully understand in 2014 these decisions. because it's even -- it's hard to have that conversation with yourself today. what would you do. i don't like it when people ask me, well, what would you do? because i don't know. knees are real life decisions that have to be made some of them within minute, hours of, hey, this idea came up. why don't you come.

i have a hard time travelling a couple of days without having them with me. so i can't imagine when i think to do i stay in this life and hope for something better for them or do i take the chance now and go out and hope that what i find is better and i can do something for them. so when people ask, you know, why do you do this? why do you portray this life, this is why? we don't have these conversations, we don't have to make these decisions today. but we do need to understand that the choices that others made led us to where we are today. they may have been the best decisions. but understand why they had to happen. what criteria needed to be met

for somebody to say, i'm going to leave everything and go for broke before i can even begin to try to judge the past. i don't like judging those in history because i wasn't there. i didn't have to make that choice. but by studying their lives and understanding the circumstances, would i leave my family today? but, no. but i can fully understand say why my great, great grandmother would have left hers, hoping for better. i could fully understand why someone would stay if the opportunity of freedom came. and instead of taking that opportunity, they would have stayed. it's not that they didn't want to be free. they just wanted more.

you grow up, you have the choose the add venn chufr books. sometimes when we interpret history, we have to decide, especially if you do portrayals which add veb chur are you going to choose? and you can't always pick the one that ends with happily ever half. sometimes the risks didn't lead to the best circumstances. fortunately if you're with me today, i choose my adventure to will take my family, find freedom, and live a better life. yeah! what i think we need to understand about this particular

time period and enslaved men and women and those who are fighting with the union. those who were running away. and those who were doing things to better their own lives, we have to honor that decision. and we have do that by speaking about it, by studying it by learning it, by putting it in our schools and just saying the north won, slavery ended yea! we have to look at the nuances of it. we have to understand the battles. we have to understand not just battles, but home life. we have to understand people. we have to look at them as people. first and foremost, understanding that these are people, thoughts feelings, emotions. the same things we have today, the same things we hold dear today are the same things they struggled with 150 plus years ago. without that they're lost. and without that, we can't accurately portray it. and we can't accurately discuss. and we can't do future generations that service of

broadening the horizons and better understanding. so that is my spiel. i'm going to turn it over to -- yeah, it's your turn. i talked. my throat hurtles. i'm going to go ahead and turn it over to mr. bill radcliffe. he's going be fine. [ applause ] >> you got this. you don't have a wireless mic. see. >> good afternoon, everybody. i -- i can't speak in the third person. my makeup doesn't allow me to do that. i'm one of those funny people that have to think about what

they're going to say and before they forget it, write it down. so with sister nicole's wonderful dissertation that i enjoyed, i'm going to do my best to follow up with maybe something that you all can take away from this experience. i have to tell you this experience for me i'll be honest with you. i guess, i was a sailor, a firefighter. i've been a re-enactor about 26 years. and i'm extremely nervous. but having said that, i'm going to take my time and my little notes and pass along what i have to tell you. i want to thank you all for being here.

of the commission. and as a representative of history 150 years ago this journey has been a true blessing for me. the people i've been associated with for what we have accomplished during this 150th commemoration of the civil war in the state of tennessee for the wonderful relations i've made, would i be able to learn to share an experience? as a civil war re-enactor, it's

true that we live history, experience, trials. the depridation and the lives of all who proceeded us. it's fun. it is fun to run around, load and fire, shoot at the enemy, knowing that you can go home when it's done. but also at the same time, there is something more. it's like a time portal before us. it's something unseen that defies explanation. though those of us who experience us, it kind of calls us it beckons us, even. into -- to look a little deeper. it might sound strange or curious, but to those of us who care not much for history but

to go to a place where history occurred to walk the same ground, and be where regular human beings went forth whichever side they fall on, to give up all of the willing the last full measure of devotion. for what i believe is truly remarkable. these are'just words. they never have been. the places, the battlefields, from virginia to texas are where real people dwaif away their futures. they are there. and they will always be there. be it bull run, shiloh gettysburg nashville, or

franklin. it happened here on this soil of the united states of america. to walk these sites take us places where sacrifices were made where we can only meditate. and say thanks. i've been to places where they appear peaceful and tranquil. oh that they knew what we knew. our saving grace is that we have a chance now to the efforts of our state tourism our sesqecentenniel commission and the people of our state who choose to learn and share the time portal we continue to beckon us all. for us to read, investigate, be a living witness, pass on to

future generations and older generations that the truth can really set you free. speaking for myself, from freedom. from freedom of doubt, from living, from freedom in a place where i wouldn't be compelled to me my family or its history. fortune showed me my parents were willing to tell me treasures were revealed. i did achieve this freedom. by living and experiencing this journey. i'm not saying my journey should be a requirement for one's personal freedom. but i am an advocate of personal growth through education. no one would be willing to make

anyone do anything. but we do need to take pause. we need to see where we are. and see where we've been. and see where we're going. wouldn't it be great if all of our national journeys ended up a national journey. we could all benefit together. in closing i'd like to say, i'm truly honored to be a part of such a great group these past year s years who accepted me and made me feel welcome. i thank you all and god bless you all.

>> thank you again to our panelists. i would like to open them up for questions. if you have particular questions, there are microphones on two aisles. you are welcome to come forth and ask any questions that you like. i see someone right here. please go ahead. >> this is to nicole. also bill, if you want to answer. what is the worst interpretation you've seen of enslaved life? and you don't have to name the player. -- place, you can keep that anonymous if you want. >> is your microphone on? >> i don't think it's on. >> yeah, it is.

i took the other one off. i don't think there's a place that necessarily has -- i won't say that i've been some place where i've seen the worst. i can tell you what the worst would be. actually i do know a couple of places that have done the worst. but the worst to me is having uneducated interpreters. >> amen. >> you need to have people who know what they're talking about who understand the history and can deliver without bias. >> absolutely. >> to me the worst places are, for those who do first person, this does not include them. for those who do third person, the worst places are where you have one or two african-americans and they're the only ones that talk about slavery. especially if you're doing third person everybody on your staff should be able to give some part of your history.

if you're not doing that, you're doing a disservice, not only to your staff members you're dishonoring those that you are remembering and you're doing the largest disservice to your public who are there to learn. it doesn't matter who says it as long as the information is accurate, true to the site, which is important. and delivered with unbiassed honesty, then you can't go wrong. when you don't do these things, not only are you the worst interpreter, you are the worst sites and do not deserve the attention of your public. a little harsh, but that's how i feel. >> no, you covered it all. >> there's another person here. and then we'll go to the other side. >> i guess this will be addressed mostly to nicole unless mr. radcliffe you have something to add to it.

but i guess in a similar vein, what is the most difficult or most challenging one of the most difficult that i've done is it was a first person. there's a strong reason i don't do first person a lot. and it's because i do like to engage in the audience and really get them to kind of look past the clothing and everything to understand the history. but i did a first person interpretation where we talked about sisters who had been separated. i don't have a sister. so for me, it was just doing the interpretation. i had two older white women come up to me in tears afterwards. and they were talking about how they were moved because they couldn't imagine having someone forcibly separate them. and then reuniting like i think our time period was like 30 years later, these two sisters reunited.

you can't control other people's emotions but to see them touched by that and not just take it as, oh, this is a nice little script that they're going over. make that correlation to their lives and make that connection, that's great. because what you want people to do is you want them to make connections personally. you want them to have that. >> i don't think that -- nicole speaks of doing a third person. i'm most comfortable in a first person. that way i can do what i need to do and hide. but at the same time, i think that when i do a first person, my research and my will and the belief that i am telling a story that needs to be told i feel

more in that aspect, i have an experience that -- quell, i've had several in re-enactments and different venues. but this particular one we were in hendersonville, georgia. we were at the p.o.w. camp and we portrayed prisoner ohs s of war. there are black and white prisoners. our confederate captors had us in an area that was pretty much the same area where the prisons were kept. and i pofr trayed a wounded soldier. and i needed to go to the surgeon.

in my delirium, a lot of my former life came out as a slave. and with that aspect of doing that first person, my friend and i, we ended uptaking it to another level that we had no control. it was like we were being guided if you will spiritually, whatever you want to call it. but, you know as nicole said. and things happen to my family that i recalled. and i actually found myself crying. so i'm not saying what nicole does as a third person doesn't work. but i think through my studies and research and experiencing

some things, the first person can bring something else to the table that defies explanation. it really does. >> thank you. over on this side? >> well, thank you both. nicole, this is the first time i've seen you unless you've been down at westington at the state museum. oh, no okay. that was so nicely done. but i have seen bill. in fact, i've followed you around nashville. i saw you at the madison library, most recently at ft. negley where you portrayed a sailor. i'd like for you to speak about that a little bit. because it was just entirely unknown to me. speak on that a bit. >> thank you for remembering me.

well, that's one aspect of the civil war here in middle tennessee that doesn't get a lot of attention. and i do belong to a civil war naval unit. but they're based in massachusetts. so actually, my unit is there but i'm here. so i represent what would be the western fear of the naval experience. there were a lot of african-american sailors connected with the navy and the gun boats and the river warfare that went on in the rivers here. and a lot of the major battles that were fought some lost, some won. i knew this story. just one reading. and i made my connection to this particular naval unit in massachusetts and my commanding

officer was tickled to death. he has somebody in tennessee. so i inadvertently joined, me and the buddy of mine, we both had been doing civil war army for a long time. i got to be honest with you, doing the navy is a breeze compared to wearing this all the time. and there aren't many sailors. so no one learning this story was beneficial in telling the real story of what happens here. i've enjoyed it. it's kind of weird because the fact of the matter is i was in the navy and was involve in riverine warfare. so it's kind of strange in that aspect. so i wanted to do it because its's part of the experience here.

and black men were sailors here. and they fought here. so i feel like i'm doing my part in telling that story. and, you know, it's nice to change up this right here is regular but sailor suits are cool too. >> thank you. one aspect of being an historian is gathering primary source material and rendering and interpretation. and each of you, to give the interpretations you do, must have -- must have done a significant amount of research. can you describe what you've done, what you've looked at and what you continue to look at to render your interpretations? >> i can answer that. because i'm from around here.

i'm not a scholar. i don't consider myself an historian by any stretch of the imagination. i enjoy history because it's there. it's there in front of me every day. i recall a time years ago, i bought a book on the battle of nashville complete with historical markers and designations. and i think it was my -- one of my days off from the fire department instead of just going home and doing what i normally do, i got in the car gassed it up road all over town, went all through the markers, right? then i just picked up books and videos and read and, you know meditated and went to went to where they were and just to be on that spot kind of brings something out.

i look at the aspect of both sides. it's not just the federal side. the union side. it's what the confederates went through. i'm familiar with what happened down here in franklin. i had to learn my way through that years ago. and i still find it fascinating. battle of nashville spring hill, the river warfare on the cumberland. there's so much here that i think a lot of people take for granted and it makes a difference when you go there and you take your book with you, which i've done eyewitness accounts. i'm really learning what i'm seeing. i know what happened there. the battle of gettysburg. i took my wife to gettysburg. i've been there several times in several events. but to walk across the field

from seminary ridge during pickets charge. and stop and knowing in that exact spot what occurred all across to the other side, i had the profound experience of going to charleston, south carolina with my friend, norm, here. and he and i were at morris island where our parent regiment, 54th massachusetts attacked ft. wagner, which is an experience in itself. brother norm can attest to it. and to be there and what they had to endure, you didn't have to go very far. so physically experiencing it and research. it all tied together. and you get a level of respect and knowledge that you just can't get anywhere else.

i mean, that's -- that's my little will to it. >> for me, i take the more scholarly approach. because i can't travel as much. i'd love to. and it's research. i'm grabbing books. i'm looking at narratives, i'm looking at the footnotes in a lot of the scholarship and then going back to trying to find where that source was. and if i can't physically get there, it's fine to have access to jay's store if they can't get it for me. but i have just a ton of research that i have to go through and figure out, you know, all right, if i'm looking at a particular area then let me find things on that area. if i'm looking at, you know, somebody's asking a generalization, i don't like generalizations too much because every experience was different but let me grab a couple of sources and let me kind of

comprise a portrait for them. so i rely heavily on scholarship and materials. and that's just because i wish i could, you know, take that information and have that physical experience and going to some of these sites and looking at the quarters and the house and the grounds and understanding the layout of the land. but since i can't do that google earth is my friend. and taking what great historians have written before and making sure that, you know, if somebody asks a question, i can take their work which might be very academic and relate it to a layperson who just wants to know so, what exactly happened and why? i want to present the research in a way that makes sense.

not to say that academics don't make sense. you're lovely person. i can't do nothing without you. you know how you write it's for each other. >> i would be remiss if i didn't add one thing, sir. experiencing the knowledge and sharing of information bring a lot to the table with the information and share it with the rest of us and the places they've been or places we've gone together as a group. so we have our meetings and i wouldn't call it a study group, but we bring things on meetings

that would have been of interest to everyone so everybody gets that same piece of knowledge that maybe they didn't have before. i like that for the troops because it's like i said we don't just run around and shoot and march, you know? we bring things in the meeting that folks can share and talk and discuss over and maybe take something away with. >> you're welcome. >> there's the person over here. and then we'll come back over here. sir, go right ahead. >> first thank you for being a 20th century vet. but what i've learned, the united states navy is much more receptive to having black groups before the army. in your research, did you ever

encounter anything that showed there were also black troops in the confederate navy. >> i would say you ear thinking of black sailors if you will. yes, sir, there were. their primary job was more like menial or lower tasks, if you will. coal stokers down in the engine room. i'm sure they had cannoneers when they went to battle stations. but the primary job were coal stokers in the confederate navy and if they were from an area where the navy was stationed or situated, they were familiar with the area and the waterways. they would have the guides, they could navigate certain areas that weren't known to the

federal navy. that happened on both sides. and the real irony of it is is the federal navy wasn't segregated. the army was. the federal navy was integrated because of the type of duty, the conditions. truth of the matter is, there were a lot of african-american men in the navy that had prior sailing experience. they could have been freedmen from up north, massachusetts, new york, whatever. they could have been working on whalers and some kind of ocean-going vessel. or they could have lived in canada or somewhere free. and took their experience applying the waterways of st. lawrence or up in michigan or anything like that and joining the navy. the conditions were not that great aboard ship.

the confinement the combat was rough. the enclosures, your sleeping quarters, pretty much everybody was on top of everybody. and the truth of the matter is there's a lot of guys that just weren't going to handle that. okay? it was something that they just didn't want anything to do with. except like your professional-type sailors, you know? but your average man. there's a period of time in the federal navy where the army were manning gun boats particularly on the mississippi river. that's kind of like the first introduction of the first wolverine warfare.

a lot of reasons why a lot of blacks chose the navy over the army. but primarily i would say this previous experience. >> thank you, sir? >> i can answer his question or that one right there. they have one right there. the american navy -- the veteran, by the way, the war before yours, the american navy has been integrated since the revolution. my question for you is would your group -- are there connections to other groups around the country. there's groups like yours? >> yes, sir. i will clarify one thing though. yes, the navy was integrated. it was integrated up to the spanish-american war when certain rate ss were closed down

to blacks who previously had professional opportunities. quarter masters gunners' mates. after the spanish-american war, a lot of black sailors were relegated to commissary and stewards duty. messmen. that went all the way up to the outbreak of the korean war. or just after the korean war. to world war ii. the majority of black men that were assigned to the fleet were stewards and cooks. they served in the officers' quarters and they cleaned the officer's quarters and washed dishes. every boat and submarine. they had a battle station. but they couldn't go any higher

than mess cook. the last time they can do anything in the way of civil war, how ironic. we had an organization of the united states colored troops reenactor s reenactors reenactors. i would say there's colors of the united states, a lot of different african-american civil war units that we participated with. i had the honor a month and a half ago of participating in the battle re-enactment to where my ancestor actually fought. he won the medal of honor in a place called new market heights. in the richmond campaign in 1864. and we had near 100 guys show up from different units like ours. it was a great time. a great time and a great

experience. i can safely say that when we take the field, we tried to honor those men and what they did in a good way. and i've always had good experiences in the field. but that was particularly special. so we're -- we're small. we're like -- i look at black re-enactors as like the navy s.e.a.l.s of the civil war. we've got a big, big, big navy. we've got very few black s.e.a.l.s. probably 300, 400, maybe. out of all of the hundreds and thousands of guys that do this and enjoy the history and it's worldwide, it's not just nationwide. i've met guys from ireland, germany, canada, and they

provide a wealth of knowledge and they enjoy it. we've even got one re-enactor in hawaii by himself. >> yeah. >> so, hey, he's having fun. i'm happy for him. but, you know, black re-enactors. we're a bit of a premium and there are not a lot of us. so we get requested for a lot of events and a lot of things here in the southeast because it's just us, the 13th u.s. color troops, and in chattanooga, tennessee, it was the 44th u.s. colored troops. and they just recently marched with us in the veteran's day parade here in nashville. we do a lot together here locally. >> this will be our final question. >> oh, perfect. >> question for nicole. nicole, you mentioned working with children earlier. i wondered if you could share with us some of the common questions that they had for you about slavery and about

emancipation. >> sure. a lot of questions that i get from kids, they want to know commonly. actually, kids are kind of violent. i had kids who asked me why didn't they kill their masters a lot. i had to guide them back to first of all, let's not have murderous intent in our heart. and then getting them to understand the circumstances. well, let's take that question and are there continues yenses involved? well, yes. okay. and what are those consequences? and having them understand that you know, you can't just go around because you're enslaved and you're angry, you can't just go around killing people. that that's not how this works. and i want's actually kind of scary how violent some of these kids are. because that's like the number one -- why wasn't there rebellion and people were killed. you have to rein them back in. a lot of time they want to know

about families -- you're laughing but it's true. last year in chattanooga i had to rein the one little boy in who was like let's go, we are leading this charge and we're going get some heads. and i was like no, no we're not. we're going to turn this around and let's -- let's be a little bit more rational. i was excited about his passion for freedom, his methods, not so much. but for the kids, they want to know about home life, really. i've had a student who was biracial ask, well, what would have happened to me? he wanted to know which community he would have fit into. they think -- children and no offense to adults, children think a lot more broadly than we do. they -- they're more ready to put themselves in that situation and think about it and how they would react and what their options were going to be. they're going to ask what kind

of food am i wearing, what clothes am i wearing. i only get shoes once a year? what do you mean i work from 7 to 70 from sun up to sundown and then it's hardwork. i don't understand why someone would own another person. that's the number one question other than murderous intent is why -- what's their slavery. i don't understand why they couldn't do it themselves. it's a really good question. but, you know, when you start talking about look at the size of the land. they're like all right, i can understand that. but how come slaves weren't paid? a lot of kids are justice-minded. and you have to really kind of take them back to the time period. last year, though, i think was -- chattanooga blew my mind with some of the kids. there was an all-girls school that came and i did my thing about what an enslaved woman would do as a cook.

what about sexual assault. and i would never have anybody ask and i just stopped and i stared at her for a second and i said, i really don't know how to answer this. i looked at the teachers and the teachers are like, answer the question. and i was like very -- because, you know, you can't r5e8ly answer all of these questions if somebody might get mad and you end up on the news and that's it. but when i looked at her, she had a dead serious look on her face. there was no laughing. she wants to know, how do they handle it? what would have happened to me? and i have no idea what was going on in her personal life, but something triggered that question to say, so how did these women deal with this? because i know it happened and i know it still happens. so let's talk about that. we had an honest conversation about how enslaved women and white women, they weren't in control of their bodies.

and these men would do whatever they wanted to because they felt that they owned that body, not the person. they're not looking at the human -- they're not looking at humanity. they're looking at a body that they can do whatever they want. and it was really interesting watching them think about the question that was asked, hear the information, and then process it. because for them, i guess something clicked where you can say people were helpless but to hear about some of the things that would have happened and as those young girls were growing up in a society today where that is almost the norm unfortunately and to know that some things haven't changed through time, they were trying to grasp for straws and saying, so, what you're saying is this has always been happening. how can we make this stop. i'm looking at them like i don't have the answers.

but i -- i don't have it. but that's something that was a reality for a lot of women. and that's something that they dealt with. and if they were quote/unquote fortunate to wear the man who had their way acknowledged the child that could have been produced, then that child might have had a better life and perhaps that woman might have had a better life. but there were no guarantees in that. and for them it was understanding that there were some women who willingly entered relationships for that gamble to make sure that if i have a child, they might have a better life than i had. but for those who were unwillingly put in those situations, this man's wife could be utterly disgusted, sell her in one direction, sell the child in another direction. and all of it is because of something she had no control over.

with kids i never know what i'm going to get, but i always get the best conversations. bill was saying he enjoys the first person because it puts them there and brings people to him. i enjoy third person because i can break out of it and have those real conversations because they're looking for a real answer. i may not be able to answer that question in the first person. but we can sit down and talk about freedom. not just emancipation freedom but freedom of body, white men and black women and how their worlds were intertwined and how they had no control over their bodies and how sometimes today that's still an issue. that's why i like kids. >> as dr. west comes forward to give concluding remarks, please join me in thanking bill and nicole.