after the last train had gone past he or of the tracks that she for up the -- he tore up the tracks. at 6th street, perhaps some of you have seen pictures of this. very elegant and roomy structure. it was the be and oh station -- it was the b & o station where the art gallery is now. as part of their massive redevelopment of the city, that is when they picked the union station site. that was all of the tracks and the railroads over there. >> we are going to try to stay sort of on time here.

>> this president's day on the c-span networks, starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern. a leadership challenge at 1992 this is why proudly announce my candidacy for president of the united states. >> a special presentation on presidential campaign announcements from ronald reagan in 1979 to barack obama 2007. we will re-air these announcements later in the evening on c-span2. finalist for the national book critics award starting at noon eastern. prize-winning arthur david brian davis on his third and final volume on the history of slavery. at 1:30, elizabeth holbrook argues that we're undergoing the sixth mass extinction as a result of human action and will

be the most devastating. at 3:00, along with senator is -- elizabeth warren, will talk about wealth and inequality. cartoonist past that patrick oliphant will discuss the president and some of the most memorable qualities. at 7:00 p.m. eastern, and nbc interview with former president herbert hoover, discussing his life beyond the presidency. then, about the ford theater department of "the widow lincoln ". the more it c-span.org and let us know what you think of the programs you are watching. e-mail us comments at c-span.org or send us a tweet at c-span #.

like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. it only are there 12 republicans in the house, there's also 108 women in congress, including the first african-american would republican in the house. keep track of members of congress using congressional congress the congressional congress has many interesting facts, including about congress. this is on c-span, c-span2 c-span radio and c-span.org. >> next about the interactions with tribes on the 1700s.

he talks about the importance of owning horses and guns for colonial sub others for having the upper hand in trade and war. this class is an hour and 10 minutes. it's going to this lecture about the great plains. unlike some of the classic american history courses, we have a more expansive view. that includes the great plains. i think we will enjoy this. we have a couple of starting anecdotes. the year is 1720, the spanish in new mexico are hearing more about french activity coming out of louisiana and canada. they hear these rumors that french traders are moving west. that they are aligned with the indians on the great plains. 1720, the governor of new mexico sends an expedition to investigate.

45 spaniards and 60 pueblo indians go out. everything is uncertain, but they probably get into what is now western nebraska, and they encounter a large group of indians who were probably pawnees. they attacked the spanish with both arrows and muskets. they are heavily armed. about two thirds of the spanish are killed in the battle. it is estimated about six survivors survive. it is basically a bit of a disaster for the spanish. the survivors contribute to a painting of the expedition. this is hard to see. it was difficult to get a good

resolution copy. it is by an unknown artist. there is a group of spanish and pueblo indians, circled by a lot of indians. some of the indians have bows, and some of them have guns. there is one thing they don't seem to have come and what might you guess that is? exactly. in 1720, the spanish are on the planes, attacked by indians who don't seem to have horses. well, the implications of this expedition, one, you can see spanish fear of the french presence and expansion, and particularly guns and french alliances with indians. you can see the absence of horses. apparently, you also notice a group of planes indians can defeat a spanish expedition easily.

they don't have any particular military advantage. in the aftermath, the spanish have no desire to venture onto the planes and have a repeat of this experience. that's our first starting point. the second starting point has to do with a group of explorers. we will -- by the way, that is a village that gives you a sense of the habitation the thing countered. our next starting point is in the early 1740's, to french brothers, sons of the explorer whose document we red for today, go out into south dakota, north dakota, this area around the black hills. they are looking for a number of things, but in particular, they are looking for the headwaters of a western river that will

lead the pacific. that is their ultimate objective. they are probably in the vicinity of the black hills in south dakota. they report back that they could've seen the pacific from the top. if you know anything about the geography, that's not the case. their guides, who they know as the bow indians, received reports of rates by another group of indians that they call the snakes, probably shoshones. they want to protect it from raiders. the exploration has to be abandoned as the bow indians go back to their home. at this time, all of the indians have horses. this is two decades later, a little bit farther north. the indians that the french explorers encountered to have horses.

one way that we know about the location of some of these explorations is -- this is a great map -- these french guys are optimistic that maybe they can see the pacific from the black hills. there are some french views of north america that are different than the views we have today. there are persistent rumors in the first half of the 18th century that there is some cn western north america. this is the leading geographer in france who put together the speculative image of what western north america would look like. you see that your state is underwater. europeans at this time don't really know very much about the chair of western north america. it is still plausible that french explorers are thinking they can reach the waters of the pacific or some inland extension

relatively easily. any ideas what might give rise to this kind of image? anybody been to utah? you have that thing salt lake that looks really big. if you been out there, you can easily imagine how the stories of salt lake could be magnified. puget sound seems like an inland body of water. there are some basis for these rumors, but the conclusion that french geographers come to our far-fetched. this is a lead plate, which was left by the expedition, which was found by some schoolkids during recess in south dakota in 1913.

that's back in the days when everything was totally cool. you can find western exploration when you're playing tag or something. everybody has the idea that virginia has all these historical sites. you can see that as late as the middle of the 18th century, the french are pretty confused about western north america. you can also see that the french presence out west is meager. you have two french explorers dependent on the indians they are working with. this is not the imposition of french power. this is a few scouts trying to figure out what's going on out there. horses have moved north by the 1740's, and there seems to be indications of warfare in the northwestern plains by this time. with these anecdotes in view, we can address some questions. one question we might ask is why -- when did the study of the spanish start? the first half of the course.

1520's, 1530's, the coronado expedition, early 1540's. the spanish have been in western north america for over two centuries. why are they still largely confined to places like new mexico, texas. why isn't there more of a spanish presence as you go into other areas. that is one question. the other question is why are the french moving west? and what of the consequences of these movement that they're pushing west into the planes from canada and louisiana? the final question is the most interesting. what is the relationship between what happens in the 18th century on the planes and the iconic image of north american indians that most americans have, which is something like a sioux warrior on a horse. what is the relationship between what were going to talk about

today, developments of the 1700s, and that big image? we will start with the spanish. why is the spanish presence so tentative? why is it only reaching into new mexico and southern texas? let me give you a couple of images to orient you. i will turn this thing off. this is a man dan indian village. that will be something you can have in mind when we're talking about that document. it would have looked something like that. this is just a quick image of spanish expansion in texas in the late 17th century. it is moving along the coastal plains. some key places that we will talk about. the missions around san antonio right there.

those are the most significant ones. expansion of spanish missions into texas, the alamo -- i'm not sure it looked like this in the 1740's. this is a representation of the movement of horses north. horses start up here in the southern parts of north america, mexico, north america, but you can see this movement of horses north along the planes through the great basin into the northwest. we will talk about that as one of the developments of the 18th century. not the best map of hudson bay but something we haven't talked about, there is this great inland body of water in canada hudson day. there are these british trading posts in the late 17th century and 18th century. i want you to get a feel for those. the final image i will show you

is basically a sense of new mexico moving up into southwestern north america. it is not controlled by the spanish. that will help to situate our discussion. that should be all we need for the moment. let's talk a little bit about -- what the you figure is your top priority as an imperial official in someplace like madrid. protective line of places like mexico and peru. other lucrative mines? that's later on. not in the 17th century and 18th century. if you think about the spanish empire, it extends down to the southern portions of south america, peru, bolivia, chile. it's not that surprising that it

takes a while for the spanish to begin launching these forays into the planes. there are other ways they can allocate their resources. the coronado expedition back in 16th century -- we did not talk about that much -- you recall how this went? not great. the spanish went out there and discovered thousands of formidable plains indians who were not necessarily going to welcome the spanish. they found the planes were an area of meager rewards and significant danger. that is one factor that held spanish expansion back until the 18th century.

the texas -- it gets going in the early decades of the 18th century. the early decades of 1700s. what do you think is the impetus for the expansion of spanish missions into coastal texas? what is happening east of texas that might inspire you? >> [indiscernible] >> that is it. the french began a colony in 1699. there is some french exploration down the mississippi before that. the spanish are nervous about the presence of these french guys, the presence of a french colony that might conceivably be a threat to mexico and new mexico. that is the primary reason. the spanish expansion into texas is generally a few missions with a small number of soldiers to go with them. the founding of san antonio and 1718, that's the most significant example of spanish expansion.

it's a site that -- what do the spanish look for before they found a mission or settlement? if you recall from new mexico, for example. >> [indiscernible] >> that's exactly what they find. san antonio is a place with irrigated fields that has been established by local indian communities. the spanish are trying to move into an area that seems compatible with their style of life and also a place with a can grow food to support the mission. the hope is also that the spanish are looking for settled agricultural indians. that's what they would really like to find. they think they are the most compatible with the spanish way of life and christianity. it is easier to establish a church that can work them in one place. in fact, the way the spanish mission in texas work, they're not a great success. generally speaking, only the most desperate indians go there.

they don't have any choice. the population does not increase. by 1760's, san antonio only has about a thousand people. what would bring spanish indians to spanish missions? [indiscernible] texas is a dangerous place in the 1700s. the spanish missions are one potential place of refuge. there are fortifications spanish soldiers with guns, an alliance with the spanish empire. indians are looking for a place where they can take refuge from some of the other indians in the 18th century. for a lot of indians who went to these texas missions, they did not see it as that major of a step in the way they were

living. if you recall, there was that season of migration groups from one place to another, nuts from one particular grove of trees, moving inland, moving to the coast. the texas indians a few the spanish missions as another stop and their seasonal migration. there would be food, a place of refuge. they viewed them as an adaptation of their lifestyle rather than a total change. you do get some of these spanish missions, but they were not a great success. they don't generate wealth, they don't get a lot of people, highly runnable to indian raids. they don't establish a dominating spanish presence. they are vulnerable to indians in that area. one way you can get a sense of that phone her ability is to

look at san saba fiasco. it is an effort to move north beyond san antonio. at the request of some local apache indians, in 1757, the spanish build a mission. you get a spanish mission. 1758, a group of indians, most likely an alliance of amenities and wichita indians, annihilate the mission. that is a bad way to start out. it is an indication of a vulnerability, even a spanish fortified position in texas. seeing that is unacceptable, the spanish pursue the comanches and their indian allies north. what they find as they go north is a well fortified indian camp, a stockade with a ditch and walls.

it is flying a french flag on the top. it's not clear with a came from. the spanish were attacked this fortification claimed there are all kinds of guns and ammunition. they also claim a substantial french presence. they claim that there are people caring french flags and wearing french uniforms. the spanish are repelled with 52 people killed or wounded. the key point is the weakness of the spanish in texas, and also the fact the indians in texas are formidable. they have fortifications, mobile striking power on forces. the spanish don't have a clear military advantage in places like texas. so that helps explain why there is sort of a spanish movement to texas, and why it's relatively limited. new mexico is also an interesting case, the other key spanish salient in north america. we will talk about california on wednesday. new mexico remains relatively

similar to what it's been throughout the course. it does not have a massive expansion in the 1700s. new mexico is never a big revenue generator for the spanish empire. the french, in places like louisiana, are convinced it is and they're trying to get to it. mexico is a poor frontier colony at the end of a long supply route for them. they don't find the silver mines that the spanish were hoping for. it is a poor salient in the north. in 1765, there's only about 10,000 people of spanish dissent and 10,000 pueblo indians in new mexico. so it is relatively poor and relatively small in terms of population. isolated at the end of a long supply route for mexico city. it still does not have any big earning commodities. there is some trade. any idea of what it's economic basis would be? >> [indiscernible] >> there's some production of

local crops, but does not great -- that is not a great export commodity. there is a small for trade, but again, not lucrative. there is a slave trade in new mexico, sending indian slaves taken in raids around mexico down into mexico itself. in that sense, from the sort of brutal logic of an early modern colony, the fact that mexico is -- new mexico is up there with indians who are not part of the spanish system does mean that there are more indian groups that they can rate for slaves. that is part of new mexico's economy. the biggest problem new mexico house, in addition to the fact that it is relatively meager economically, is what would you guess? >> it's a long way away from the center. if it's a long way from the spanish power, what is a close to?

>> [indiscernible] >> that is exactly right. there are a lot of indian peoples surrounding new mexico who become more and more formidable as the 1700s go on. new mexico has to worry about the comanches to the west, the apaches who are over the place, the navajos, who are to the northwest. there are a lot of people, a lot of indian groups. the governor of new mexico is concerned. it is a highly vulnerable colony. it is surrounded. it is concerned that some of these indians surrounding it are increasingly carrying french weapons. one big difference between the spanish colonies in new mexico and texas and the french colonies and places like louisiana, is the spanish

discourage the trade in guns with the indians. the french encourage the trade in guns. that makes the spanish very nervous. it means the potential enemy are much better armed. let's talk now about -- let's shift from the spanish colonies and talk a little bit about these indians out the planes themselves. you can see that we've had a little hint of a very interesting story that's going on. let's first go back in time of little bit and talk about some of the developments that lead up to what happens in the 1700s. the first thing to talk about is that when we are talking about the 1700s, there are a lot of indian communities on the great plains who are growing crops, agricultural, horticultural, big town surrounded by fields growing things like corn. this development really starts about 700 a.d., so we will go way back, there is a movement of the growing of corn moving up

the mississippi and moving west along the tributaries of the mississippi to the point where a river like the missouri has these significant villages that are growing a lot of cornbread -- corn around them. these villages are surrounded by cornfields. the pawnees are another example of these communities. what typically happens to communities that grow a lot of food? thanksgiving is the perfect preparation. they are very sluggish. they cannot move quickly. the population grows. one thing you get is that these towns often a really big hundreds or even thousands of people living in fortified substantial villages are towns along the tributaries of the mississippi and missouri.

so it is a formation of a new style of life from what it was before 700 a.d. these villages are not just growing corn. they are also hunting buffalo. you have to supplement a diet with protein. they are often involved in handicrafts and basic production. eventually by the 18th century they start getting horses. the spanish see some of these, in the 16th century, and the spanish and french see them in the 17th century and 18th century. that's one big feature of the plains at this time. there's another big feature of the plains and this is what what makes the plains and

exciting place and a dramatic place. let's go back to your iconic image of the north american indian, which is a guy on a horse. when does that start? when the spanish arrived, when the french arrive, when the europeans arrived in north america, then there are horses in north america. they went extinct in that big wave of extinction. what would you happen, what would you guess. what would you suspect that happened to those forces with spanish settlements in new mexico? >> [indiscernible] >> horses can move. they will escape. they can be stolen. that's another possibility. even by the middle of the 17th century, some horses are getting way from the spanish. they are getting into the possession of some of those indian peoples, some of the apaches seem to have horses before the pueblo revolt. that is one thing.

there is that other thing, a pueblo revolt of 1680. in addition to the spanish being temporarily driven out, lots of horses. get away from spanish control. now for a few moments, i want you to think of yourself as a horse, ok? it's always constructive. you get away from the spanish , you are feeling good. you cross that range of mountains and take a good look over the plains. what do you think? this is my lucky day. to be a horse. i just found one of the best places in the world to be a horse. what is there on the plains? lots of grass, and not a lot of horses. there are buffaloes, but you can do with them. when the horses get away from

new mexico, especially those who get onto the plains, this is a great place to be a horse. horses multiply quickly on the plains. so that is the horse side of the story, which is important. but there is this other side of the story as well. if you're one of these indian groups around new mexico, nor the new mexico, maybe moving on to the plains yourself. you suddenly cities big animals. you have some knowledge they can be domesticated. with experimentation, you pick up a horse for yourself. now you have peoples who for millennia have hunted on foot, and all the sudden they have one of the more formidable creatures of the early modern world. if you wanted to have a good example of a people who profit from the presence of spanish horses, the comanches are good one. the comanches are a people who are related to the shoshone's. they get to the planes by the

-- to the plains by the 1700s. they move into the planes at a time when horses are already there. the comanches relatively quickly in the 1700s adopt horses for themselves. they make it a critical part of their lifestyle. they essentially become a mounted people. now, what is the advantage of being a mounted people on the plains in the 1700s? what can you do? caller: you can hunt buffalo. >> you can hunt buffalo. >> you can hunt buffalo when you have horses. what are the advantages of hunting buffalo? yeah? >> [indiscernible] >> you have a great source of protein. and you have items that you can sell to other people, buffalo hide to pueblo indians. they give them the ability to hunt at a greater distance, more

efficiently. the plains are a good place. that's one thing. what else? you can hunt buffalo. that's good. what else can you do with your horses? >> [indiscernible] >> that is kind of neutral language. you can expand your control. what would that expansion control feel like? >> [indiscernible] >> you could get on your horse and you could get a lance and move quickly. all of a sudden, you have a big military advantage over the folks you had a quarrel with for the past two decades. one thing that happens is the comanches move over into west texas, one group hangs on the plains near new mexico, but these comanches are now

militarily and extremely formidable group of people. even without rivals, but certainly when they get guns from the french. they can move fast. they can attack isolated spanish settlements. they can hit an outlying ranch. they can take what they want and disappear before the spanish can get them. they can choose the point at which they attack. they can also attack the apache settlement. prior to the movement of the comanches on the southern plains, the apaches have been the dominant group. after the comanches get horses the apaches are no longer the dominant group in the southern plains. in fact they disperse off the , southern plains. some of them look for refuge with the spanish in texas. some of them move into the mountainous areas in southern and western new mexico. they are driven away by the comanches, who become the dominant force on the southern plains over the course of the 1700s. it is important to know that comanches can raid other

plains indian people. they will exchange buffalo items for various things. other years, they will raid the -- they will trade the spanish. it depends on a variety of factors. there is an alternation between violent interaction and peaceful economic interaction. that is true on the plains as a whole. one of the great ironies of all this -- and these comanche developments extend to a number of different plains people over the course of the 1700s. as the horse moves north different people adopt horses. the sioux will adopt horses. the cheyenne will adopt horses. different groups see the horse as a potential advantage, and you get a lot of groups profiting.

some groups are terrified by the groups that do have horses. that example i gave you, you can see some of the consequences of people beginning to move easily across the plains and raid one another. one of the great ironies is this, what's the best way to get at this? who are the baddest people in history? [indiscernible] >>i think there a contender. when you get to the 20th century, there's a lot of competition. the mongols, genghis khan, you can argue he's the baddest dude in history. you could argue of attila and the huns are the baddest. what characterizes these classic baddies? i'm just suggesting. no quarrel with mongolia here. if you took a poll. i think they are pumped about this in mongolia. what characterizes them? >> [indiscernible]

>> absolutely. so one of the great continuities in eurasian history is you have these guys who live on the steps of eurasia. they get horses and that enables them to be these formidable mounted people. they don't have guns, but they have compound bows. they will have 12 horses at a time. you see these alternations and eurasian history between the power and the step nomads, and the settled people who always have to deal with this. presents to the north. any idea when the step nomads are done as a feature of eurasian history? when they're no longer a threat? go ahead. >> [indiscernible] >> even earlier, actually, the 18th century. china launches an expansion to the west. and basically destroyed the major step, nomad empires.

the point i want to get across is this feature of eurasian history in the 1700s. china is not worried about the step nomads after the 1800s. if you look at this in the broadest perspective, it is exactly the moment that a certain kind of lifestyle, certain military technology or tactics, exactly the moment when it's over, finished, antiquated in eurasia. it suddenly appears on the plains of north america. so it is almost like it is a balancing mechanism in the world where horses crop up and they have their heyday in north america well into the 19th century. let's take a break. should we take a break? what was funny about the heyday?

>>hay day. >> i did not think about that. i did not think about that. let me give you a few more points, and then we will take a break. where do the french fit into this story? they are trying to expand west in the 18th century from louisiana and canada. they have a number of objectives. finishing up that discussion of the spread of horses onto the plains, it leads to people rising and falling quickly. to give you good example, the shoshone indians were so frightened in the 18th century. when lewis and clark go west the shoshone's are hiding in the rockies trying to survive. so people who have a brief moment of dominance on the plains, that moment is often brief. acquisition of horses leads to a lot of conflict on the plains and that leads to instability. that will be one feature of the plains into the 19th century. the other factor, and i talked about how if you're a horse

and you imagine that you go out of the mountains on to the plains, this is totally excellent. assuming there are two horses, what happens relatively quickly after these horses get onto the plains and start eating grass? three horses, four horses, all of a sudden you have a lot of horses on the plains. there are already a lot of buffalo on the plains. the plains are big. they seem infinite. you have wet periods, dry periods, hot. yeah? by the 19th century, you have an ego crisis on the plains when there's too many grass eating animals out there eating lots of grass. there is only so many animals

that the plains can sustain. that gets a little bit beyond our course but this gives you a sense of introducing a horse into a new environment. the consequences are endless. ecologically, militarily culture, big change in many ways. so now let's talk about the french and then we won't go for -- then we will go for discussion. the french are expanding west from louisiana and canada. it is a little bit different than what you saw in the 17th century. there are still missionaries involved, but there is more of an emphasis on trade, furs human beings, but less of an emphasis on missionaries conversion of indians. the french, as a mentioned earlier, are quiet happy to trade guns to western indians. that does give them an advantage when they're competing with the spanish. what are the french looking for as they go west into north america? why would they bother to go at all?

>> [indiscernible] >> they are still hoping that there will be some relatively easy water route leading to the pacific. this seems far-fetched. and the first decade of the 19th century, they are still thinking that lewis and clark will still find a gentle plateau in the center of the continent. there will be this nice navigable river. instead, this is your moment. when lewis and clark get west of the first range of the rockies, what did they discover? idaho. one range of mountains after another. but the french don't know that. so they are still hoping for a relatively easy way to get to the pacific. there are hoping for a rude to the pacific to trade with asia. i will talk more about that on wednesday, but they're hoping for a route for a rude to the

pacific and trade with asia. they are also hoping with new trading partners. they have heard rumors that there might be elaborate civilizations on the pacific coast. from what they've heard from second hand accounts, they think maybe japan and china have outpost. they think maybe there is some kind of indian civilization in the northwest. it gives rise to that kind of story, places to the farther east. anybody from british columbia washington state? you do have in the northwest big sophisticated indian towns in the pacific northwest with monumental architecture, big oceangoing canoes, fantastic sculpture, living in fantastic wealth because all they have to do is dip their hands into the water and they find to salmon. -- dose co-salmon -- plains2 salmon. when you're talking about information traveling hundreds

of miles, it could set up stories or even the two rumors of other peoples in the northwest. the french are very curious about this. they have heard rumors that there might be europeans in the west, spanish, russians. they are trying to figure this kind of stuff out. they are moving to the west. the big limitations on the french, there's not a lot of them. they are really beyond the range of french power. these are small parties. as we know from earlier in the 17th century, what do the french do to compensate for the fact that there are not many of them? >> [indiscernible] >> exactly. they try to make friends with the different indian groups. and try to become allies with those indian groups. the same problem. in the 17th century, the french ally themselves -- and that makes them the indians of the earthquake. who do they antagonize? the sioux. bad call.

the french, in certain ways, are among the less lucky adventurers of the 18th century. the enemies they make are formidable. there is a family exploration that is killed by a sioux war party. so even if the sioux make certain allies, they also antagonize other groups. if we wanted to summarize the take away points from this particular material, i think the first thing is regional dynamism. the plains are not static in the 1700s, all kinds of changes are going on. all kinds of dynamism the , adoptions of crops, corn-based agriculture, which you see in centuries preceding this, the horse coming out onto the plains in the late 17th century and 18th century. this is a different place than it was before. so regional dynamism. i think a second point is these

crop growing people. the economic image of the plains indians -- it is worth noticing. if you think about the course as a whole, look at how many of these kinds of indian peoples we have seen. the folks at coronado met. the pueblo indians in new mexico. different groups in her zone of. again and again, we are seeing these indians that are different than the classic stereotype that we see in american history. i think the third point is the formation of these horse peoples of the plains in the 1700s. because this really is a crucial development. it does set the stage for a lot of what you see in the 19th century. that is enough of me talking. now i'm going to make you guys perspire. i will shift a little bit to discussion and we will see how much fun you had over thanksgiving. you have to admit, these documents were very short. no extra essays and everything. they should be a pleasure.

if not, i can guide you through these. do you want to start with the french or with new mexico? the french it is. so we have this account in the fall and early winter of 17 -- 1738 he is going out to visit villages. if he is trying to establish what? what is he hoping for? what kind of relationship would he like to establish? what kind of relationship do the french always want to establish ? some kind of trading relationship. go ahead and raise your hand before asking a question that will give time for the microphone to move to you.

a microphone has difficulty keeping up with the rapidity of our thought. it is true. because of the kinds of discussion we have had. some kind of trade relationship and alliance. so if you're going to establish a french trading relationship with people like the mandan. if you want them to trade with the french, who do not want the mandans to trade with? so, you remember that map i showed you at the beginning of class? you have these big inland seas in northern north america called hudson's bay. on the edges, you have the british establishing these trading post along the edge of hudson's bay.

the british established these little trading posts. and the british, what they try to do is encourage indians from inland to come to the coast along the edge of hudson's bay and give them what? what logically, what is the virtue of northern canada in terms of their particular commodities? >> [indiscernible] >> absolutely. the established these little posts and they want the indians to do all the work of getting for getting the first and then giving the furs. from the point of view of a french explorer?

outmaneuvered. if we look at page 295, the right-hand column, he talks about, i got the two chiefs to come to my tent. i knew they went to the english post. one of them received a present as an inducement. what is the problem? you have these indians trading with the british. you don't want that. what can you do to draw these western indians? draw them away from english? >> give them better gifts. >> exactly. nice. better gifts and gifts. that is one interesting aspect of it. the french are trying to establish a trading relationship, but they have to

give something away. so there is a high initial investment of giving gifts to giving them to groups like the mandans. if the british rely in sitting in these little forts and waiting for the indians to come to them, what can they do? >> they go out to the indian forts and communicate directly. >> that's exactly what they do. so the french began moving west. there is a chain of lakes extending west of the great lakes. all the way to northern canada. the french are moving out into the western interior of north america. the going directly to the trading partners rather than waiting for them to go to hudson bay. that's working a lot harder. when are the western indians without a negotiating position?

are they without leverage? what kind of thing to they say? we would love to have a trading relationship with you if, for example, the french abandoned us. as long as the french remain in our lands, we promise you not to go elsewhere. what is the upshot of that? >> they can have demands on the french. >> you can't just come and go. you have to stay. they are asking for an ongoing relationship with the french that will be equal in value and predictability for what they can do with the british and hudson bay. they are moving the french. here is what we expect from you. there is a negotiation going on.

let's see, on 296 as were going down, we will keep quiet and let the sioux indians do the same. our heart is still sore on account of your sun. which is just what i was talking about before. it is part of the french expansion into the interior, moving of these trade relationships. some french people don't come back. it is a dangerous operation. let's see here, what makes it great to be a mandan? or what makes it great to visit demand dan? >> they seem to have impressive fortifications and they are expert traders. >> absolutely. you go to the mandan, and you don't find a bunch of tents. you don't find a paltry settlement. you see a big town with permanent buildings with

fortifications, a big moat, but it sounds like some thing for -- formidable to deal with. it is impressive physically. what is the basis for this mandan town? what establishes its position on the northern plains? what does it have to offer? and you can kind of figure. so if some people live by hunting buffalo for example, and other people spend time growing corn, what might be a basis of exchange? >> buffalo for corn. >> yes, that's one. you can imagine the exchange of agricultural products for animal products. if you have a nice town with nice houses and you spent a lot if you have a nice town with

nice houses and you spent a lot of time in those houses, especially in winters in north dakota and south dakota, what can you do with your spare time in your rich agricultural village in the upper missouri? with your buffalo hides that you traded for? yes? >> you can work with it. you can create clothing. >> absolutely. they are also a manufacturing town. they make baskets, clothing, all kinds of goods out of animal products and agricultural products which they can then trade with other plains people who are less secretary and move around. the mandans seemed quiet good at that. the town is well fortified. are you happy to have people visited? i think so. people trade with you.

maybe you can establish a relationship with the french. thanksgiving is a good time to talk about this. when people show up at your village, what do they want to do with your corn? >> they need to feed them, but they don't want to sell it all. >> when they show up as guests they eat a lot of the mandan corn. does this remind you of anything? >> when they were going to the pueblo towns, eating pueblo corn. >> this is reminiscent, this idea of moving around on the plains while europeans service the center of attraction. that provides you an entree to village, where you can eat here that is a significant factor.

if they are worried that another group are eating too much of their corn, what do the mandan say? >> that the sioux are coming to attack. >> exactly. on the one hand, i think the mandan looked down on another group. what does that tell you about about trade? that is one thing that makes the mandan a prosperous village. we also talked about the fact that all you do is say that the sioux are over there, and they will run away. what does this say about the tenor of life on the northern plains in the late 1730's. >> there are different diplomatic relations and understandings going on between the different cultural groups.

a high level of interaction that you would not otherwise expect. >> there's economic relationships. there are relationships that seem to change regularly. there is a lot going on. you can see how just trying to figure out how this works, who is afraid of whom, who is allied with whom is not so easy. that is part of the difficulty that the french have when they get out into the northern plains. they try to understand these relationships, many of which are changing rapidly. if the french are interested in finding europeans civilized people in the west, do they find them? in their view? is that were there were looking for? he does not sound that excited.

he is happy to meet the mandan but he had heard rumors that there was a european people on the northern plains. he feels the disappointed. what reports does he get? do the mandan talk about the other groups on the plains? on page 301, left-hand column, they built their forts and lodges in the same way. they grew corn and tobacco down the river. the water was not drinkable. the land was inhabited by white people like ourselves. the word iron seems to be applied indiscriminately to all metals. by killing a horse -- iron bucklers which they handled with great skill. what we talking about? probably? most likely?

>> it is an account of the spanish in new mexico. there may be some sort of mixing of categories. there are indians associated with new mexico who now have spanish weaponry and horses. other groups are adopting horses, but the root of this is the spanish. what does that tell you about information networks on the northern plains? is movement restricted? new mexico is a long way from south dakota and north dakota. mandan information, if the can talk about the spanish that would suggest that information seems to be moving on the plains.

what would facilitate the spread of information on the plains in the 1700s? conceivably, horses are moving information more quickly. people are so terrified by horse peoples, information is moving less rapidly. it raises the question. i think it is that people are moving information and trading goods longer distances. let's shift a little bit too new mexico governor in 1754. he is writing a report to his successor saying that if you want to be a governor new mexico, this is what you need to do. this flows from what we talked about earlier. what is the big problem for the governor new mexico? what keeps him up at night? it practically answers itself. yes? >> [indiscernible] >> potentially, but also attacks on the indians outside the colonies. what mike a revolt of the pueblo indians less likely in the 18th century that it had been in the 17th century?

>> because they have already very brutally put one down. >> there is the unfortunate explains with the previous rebellion. outside of new mexico, there are these indian groups that are as potentially dangerous as they are to the spanish. they are surrounded by people who are potentially trading partners, but also potential dangers. let's get a sense of this. who are some of the names? who are the groups of indians he talks about? on page three of three in the left column, you have the apaches, comanches, utes, one after another.

when he talks about the settlement new mexico on the north with the population driven out, is new mexico a stable colony in 1750? no. there are certain parts of northern new mexico in danger of being wiped out. it is not just the comanches that have horses. the utes have moved into new mexico and adopted horses. they can raid spanish new mexico.

he says the conservation of the friendship, a change in tone and the rest of the allied tribes is one of the greatest considerations which their trade and good relations bring to this province. what has he done? if you cannot beat them? ally with them. you have a group like the utes capable of ravaging parts of northern new mexico. the thing to do is establish an alliance with the utes who presumably have enemies as well so you can protect yourself. find allies among the people most dangerous to you. is the relationship between new mexico and the surrounding indians on the planes always one of hostility? it is not. sometimes there are trade fairs where they will come down. if you are the government of new mexico and have hundreds or more of different groups of indians coming together in his big trade

fairs, what might you want to do as governor to make sure this works out nicely? what is the danger when you bring together hundreds of people from different ethnic groups, many of whom are heavily armed and are involved in economic relationships where there is a danger there will be trickery, fraud, and deceit? he had the big bag with the mandan, and they stole his back of goodies. what is one danger when people come together to trade? actually, multiple dangers.

>> theft, violence, fraud. >> exactly. business. [laughter] all the things that happened today. there is a danger you will have people stealing each other's stuff, have people trying to cheat each other and getting angry afterwards. thefts, fraud, violence. you will have people who did not like each other the year before who are staring across a field outside of santa fe. so there is the danger of violence between these groups. what do you do as the governor of new mexico to keep a lid on this? you have troops in santa fe. they are not huge, but presumably you have an orderly presence. if you want to do a business deal today, what precedes a business deal? >> sort of wine and dine them. give them gifts. >> you wine and dine, share food, smoke together.

at the time, you would smoke pipes to establish a friendly relationship. you can reassure one another. as governor, bow down before me? bad strategy. what do you do instead? what do you do today? how have you been? how are your wives? how did the raid go? you have to be polite and not condescending. not let on what a lot of the spanish governors probably actually feel. you need to have good manners with people who are numerous and heavily armed. what is the danger if he sees the spanish allying with the utes? what would be the end of new

mexico? >> if they all allied together. >> you want to be on good terms with a lot of these folks. you definitely do not want to be on bad terms with all of them. there are not that many spanish in new mexico. they are vulnerable. it cannot defend itself against that many people. you want to have trading fairs where it is profitable to interact peacefully. you want to be polite. sometimes people won't listen to reason. what do you have to do then? for example, the comanches, as he talks about at one point?

at one point, page 304, they have maintained good faith since i punished them with the armed forces. i have observed the greatest equity and kindness with arms which they did not believe in because they were arrogant from dominating the rest of the tribes. what you have to do? you have got to be polite. in his description, you have to show from time to time you are formidable. occasionally, spanish would be called upon to go out and humble one of these indian nations. they think of the comanches as the most elevated in the sense of themselves because they have dominated the area between new mexico and texas in the 18th century. they feel like the lords of the southern plains. he is dealing with that. if you want to have peace with

the utes, you would like to keep things stable of the comanches many other groups he talks about, who would you like to concentrate your attention on? if you want to make peace with everybody except one group, who is the one group -- you want to get rid of your other enemies and stabilize relationships so there is one group of people you can go after. if you only knew five indian nations from your watching of western movies growing up? the apaches, actually. the apaches and navajo are related. the apaches were on the southern plains before the comanches drove them off. they moved into areas south of new mexico into northern new mexico. they are conducting extensive raids on spanish settlements.