brotherhood, free masonry and transformation of the american social order" and also the author of "the american revolution: a history in documents ". in addition to serving as a fullbright scholar in japan steve has spoken in many venues including on "good morning america." sara martin and neal millikan will be serving a paper in tandem. sara has a dock rat of history from melbourne and specialized training in scholarly publishing and documenting in editing from arizona state university. and neal, was until recently, also a series editor at adams papers. she holds a doctor rat in history from skouth carolina. so, i want to welcome steve, our first speaker.

>> thank you. the last day of march 1776 three months before america broke free from britain ab gal adams told her husband, i hope you have declared an independency. john adams -- let me look for my slide. here we are. better get these going. there we are. john adams was then serving in the second continental congress in ffl, urging congress to do just that. abigail, at the family's house in braintree, massachusetts, fully concurred. her letter went to denounce unlimited power and legislation

without representation and to predict a rebellion. the latter part of the letter did not refer to the colonies but to women. the new nation's law code abigail advised, ought to remember the ladies. john responded two weeks later that women already had power in practice. aabigail completed the discussion of the topic three weeks later. although john was not being very generous, she concluded, women could still defeat men's absolute power. the exchange between abigail and john has long attracted attention, becoming the best known discussion of women's rights in the revolutionary period. remember the ladies, remains abigail's most famous statement carved in stone alongside her recent boston statue. the attention is not surprising. abigail's beautifully crafted statements highlights

disparities that the revolutionaries failed to address and despite major changes, they continue to be problematic today. the discussion itself is relatively brief. the three statements total only 568 words. it's less than 1 1/2 pages in a modern printed work. furthermore, they form only part of three of the 11 letters they sent each other between the five weeks between the opening and closing. here's the first letter with it marked in the bottom, marked on the top. there's the entire letter showing the relative proportions there. in all remember the ladies exchange 8,300 words they exchanged, just 10%. just in five weeks. from today's perspective,

furthermore, the exchange itself is rather disappointing. john rejected her proposal. and although abigail opens boldly by condemning male legal symptoms she concludes by praising female submission. although abigail and john's discussions still repay further study. see their discussion from the 18th century preoccupations with power and with politeness gives depth and dimension to that exchange. politeness does not mean simply good manners or in following accepted rules and conventions. instead, it is a specific set of attitudes, ideas and practices that first came together within the upper levels of british society in the 18th century. and that spread across the atlantic in what richard buschmann has called the refinement of america. the term polite had previously

meant smooth or polished. a meaning that persisted into the early part of the 18th century. in his browned-breaking 1704 optics, sir isaac newton notes a particular crystal's glossy, polite surface could be rubbed to make it more polite. but the term was increasingly being applied to humans and their behavior. an english book on manners published in 1702 suggests that honesty, courage and wit were merely rough diamonds till they were polished by company and conversation. politeness applied to leadership as well. it sought to discourage anger, cruelty and lack of concern for other people, not just in gatherings, but in governing. these ideas of politeness shape the exchange between abigail and john in three significant ways.

the letters themselves displayed polite polished writing. the interactions they encourage simplified polite performance. finally, the discussion itself was about politeness raising directly the issue of how much the ideals of generous interaction affected social relationship. abigail's call for the new nation's legal code to remember the ladies reminded john that laws gave husbands what she called unlimited power over wives, making them only vasles. abigail was noting the legal doctrine of coverture that made the family a single unit with the husband as sole representative leaving wives unable to vote largely unable to hold property or to protect themselves from their husband's decisions.

this was particularly dangerous abigail suggested since the natural tendency of men was to become tyrants. if this power was not constrained, abigail threatens, aibl women would revolt. refusing to follow laws. abigail next celebrate polite sympathetic interactions. men who wish to be happy, she notes, give up the harsh title of master for the more tender and endearing one of friend. but women still needed to be guarded from the vicious and lawless, just as god protected humanity, she argued, men should create laws to ensure women's happiness. abigail's two paragraphs neatly divide her discussion. while they both advocate great legal discussions for women,

each paragraph uses a different set of categories. abigail first speaks of legality and former political organizations, of rebellion against tyrants and resisting legislation without representation. having discussed force and rebellion, where political scientist joseph nye calls hard power, abigail turns to tenderness and happiness. this language of soft power was particularly congenial to abigail, who famously referred to john as her friend even my dearest friend and, of course john resip row skates there. abigail uses some form of the word friend in 80% of her letters. abigail's concerns here were not

personal pkeculiarities. when his own son reached his 18th birth day, the chesterfield stopped writing to his son as dear boy and began to write, dear friend. his son, he declared, had become his own master. restrained use of power and attention to the concerns of other people lay at the hard of polite ideals. british work much prereprinted in america the desire to please other people as the very essence of politeness. thomas jefferson similarly advised his grandson in 1808 that people won goodwill by ak nice -- sack figs their own conveniencies and preferences. benjamin franklin's decision never to contradict anybody, made him the most amenable of men in society.

contemporaries often describe political ties in similar terms. a sermon of the 1767 core nation of george iii called upon god to unite people in the strictest bands of affection. in his 1776 common sense a work that deeply affected ab gashlgs tom payne wrote that he had hoped for reconciliation with britain until the king showed himself a hardened, sullen-tempered pharaoh in the aftermath. lacking the fekzaffections of the father of his people. the king heard of their deaths unfeelingly. john's response two weeks later dismissed abigail's proposal. as to your extraordinary code of laws, he wrote on april 14th i cannot but laugh.

opponents of the american resistance had argued its agitation had loosened the bands of government, had made children apprentices, indians and slaves discontented with authority. but he had not heard he jokes, that women were similarly uneasy. despite rejecting abigail's suggestions, however john responded enthusiastically to her subject and her style. he filled his high-spirited and good-humored letter with long lists of specifics, including not just groups under authority. but opponents to the american cause and a half dozen forms of government culminating in the term from mob rule alocracy. john follows abigail as well between more formal political science and emotional response of interactions. after noting discontent groups he shiftsz to a different description of relationships.

calling male power little more than theory. men knew that they needed to take women's concerns into account. and they did not dare to use their legal authority. in practice, we know in practice you know that we are the subjects. having praised the ethics of restrained leadership, he concludes by again linking women's rights and revolutionary rhetoric. washington and other heroes, he claimed, would fight against women's efforts to control men. john's failure to engage in a fuller argument against women's rights did not mean he had no considered opinion on the subject. he directly addressed women's suffrage only six weeks later in responding to a massachusetts jurist who called for ending property qualifications for voting. john conceded that the consent of the people was the only moral

foundation of government. but he argued that the precise application of that principle is unclear. no one he suggests content that everyone should be able to vote, yet some women and even children had as much ability as men. but raising the issue of voter qualification to this point john warned would create un-ending discussions and many troublesome new claims. ab gashlgs abigail, however, was not seeking in the extended debate. she clearly found john's response invigorating. despite expressing some disappointment as john's positions in a long letter to their mutual friend, otis warren she excitedly describes the discussions quoting passages from both letters. john's response had called abigail saucy. the term often used of disobedient children was dangerous, even in jest.

but abigail tells warren that john was saucy. mixing sauciness with the formal list of grievances and showing that john had not misread his wife's tone. both abigail and john recognized the need to keep up each other's spirits, particularly in these months. the british, who had just left nearby boston in march had been a continuing certain of safety for the family and their property. abigail begins her march 31st letter i wish you would ever write me a letter half as long as i write you. suggesting that her message sought to have john remember not just the ladies, but herself. responding to her call for further involvement, john offered a substantial character,

a character sketch of his barber in a mid-april letter. calling the description a trifling subject, intended for your amusement. abigail in turn explained in early may that she had delayed writing because, dismayed of a lethargy of massachusetts patriots patriots, she had not felt in a human to entertain you and feared using unbecoming invehicletive. such a tentativeness to the concerns of their partners was a cornerstone of john and abigail's relationship. they had begun writing virtually from the start of their courtship, as we'll hear next. john told abigail only a few months before their wedding that he had thought of sending her a nest of letters, like a nest of baskets. even though he knew the baskets themselves might be a more gentile and acceptable present. john may have already realized that he had found a friend who

would appreciate letters even more. two weeks after responding to abigail's views of women john asked her is there no way for two friendly souls to converse together although their bodies are 400 miles off? he answered his own question, yes, by letter. abigail's call for women's rights seems easy today to see as a policy prescription or lawyer's brief. and she was certainly serious about her concerns. but she was also taking a star turn, offering polishes remarked that would have been welcomed in a sophisticated salon. in the remember the ladies exchange, john and abigail showed off entertaining and impressing each other. each offered a polite literally a polished contribution to a broader conversation they knew was essential to their relationship. before one of his trips to

europe during the revolutionary war, john gave abigail a lockette portraying a woman sitting on the shore as a ship sailed away. at her feet lies an anchor. a symbol of hope that belonged not to the ship, but to the friend aboard it. a connection she might have said held fast by their correspondence. you bid me burn your letters john had responded to abigail's request at the end of april 1776, but i must forget you first. abigail's final statement on women's rights, written in may 1776 concludes by emphasizing that women themselves did not want full power. she first chided john for not recognizing his views of liberty should extend to women, paralleling an argument already being made by opponents of slavery and religious

restrictions. although men's power was now absolute their arbitrary authority could be defeated by women's power to free themselves and subdue their masters. restrained and respectful authority would allow women some ability to sway decisions. abigail's letter follows the rhetorical pattern they have established earlier. she first calls male rule absolute and arbitrary. terms that had long been used to kree teak irresponsible power and to call for responsive as well as responsible leadership. women have the power to destroy this male control without violence, taking men's natural and legal authority and throwing it at our feet. abigail quotes british poet alexander pope in shifting the discussion from legal and constitutional terms. women would gain power she suggests, by accepting male authority -- or accepting proper male authority.

with abigail's concluding reference to women obeying. the exchange seems rather disappointing at the end. but her point makes more sense within the culture of politeness. pope's poem does not demand female cervicalserveility. in the one before that abigail quotes, the ideal women is celebrated for acting with moderation. she near answers until her husband cools. and with restrained leadership. when she rules him, never shows she rules. abigail's uncertainty about the rightful power of women makes the final sentence problematic. in an odd phrase in fact one that i misread for years, she writes that once women had subdued their masters, they would throw both their natural

and legal authority at our feet. now, petitions and dedications had often spoken of being laid at the feet of a superior. a biblical vision depicted here in william blake's water color about 30 years later portrayed heavenly elders as in the revolution casting their crowns before jesus' throne. but these images suggest humble -- or humbled men, laying down their authority, not women casting it at their own feet. abigail furthermore, offers no transition into the pope quotation. the accepting and submitting in the first line had just been in abigail's prediction, the experience of men rather than of women. so, what i think is going on here is this reveal's abigail's uneasiness about the stark alternatives of rebellion and

obedience she had just drawn, although men had demanded too much authority. her picture of women triumphant was not fully satisfying either. women should not hold such power themselves. politeness had sought to create a world where such harshness was unnecessary. abigail's favorite novel was samuel richardson's "clarissa ", a book about the seduction of a young woman driven away home from parents trying to control too tightly their children's marital plans. abigail and john's eldest daughter had decided she'd experience aid very different sort of parenting in 1785. only 11 in 1776, nabby, had spent little time with her father during the war and afterwards. when she finally visited him in england for an extended period nine years later, she found that he was not the severe man she

had expected. having feared he would demand her obedience, she notes with surprise in her diary that he left me to follow my own wishes in the most important concerns of life. since her father did not, like many other parents usurp the power nature had given them by acting as tyrants over their families, he was worthy of every token of my attention. and their parenting their correspondence, and even to a certain extent, john's governing, the adams sought -- sentimental 19th century americans would develop an almost mystical confidence in the power of sympathy. not coincidentally, the name of the first novel "written america "written only a few years after this exchange. but for all her faith and friendship abigail had known

better. her opening statement in the remember the ladies exchange noted the neat for laws to restrain vicious men deaf to the demands of tenderness. although john did not note it abigail had used the principle that had inspired his own call for a republic. in the phrase that would become most closely associated with john, abigail too, had called for a government of laws and not of men. over the next generations, americans often came to see power and politeness less as parts of a whole than as differing categories. the french social theorists alexis toe toekville used this teshg terminology in his study of american democracy in the 1830s but he always recognized the significance of the connections envisioned earlier in the ideals of politeness.

his final work on the french revolution suggested the french aristocracy had become so dominant that it did not need to show concern for common people. for common people. the more constrained english noeblt nobility was forced to treat them as equals. while abigail and john could not have accepted the description of the english aristocrats they surely would have approved of his lesson of building authority through polite exchange. because this passage ends by stating that the french nobility had clung to its prerogatives and therefore had failed. the english counterpart who had treated people more generously had submitted that it might command command.

thank you. good morning. neal and i in comparing the courtship correspondence of john and abigail and john quincy and luisa katherine explore the idea

of proximity and how the physical proximity of each couple really influenced the development of their relation relationships. i'm going to take that as my starting point today and then i'm going to turn it on its head a little bit and expand beyond the courtship years. but to that idea of physical proximity, i also want to add the idea of cultural proximity. certainly john and abigail had a certain degree of sameness so geographically they both came from coastal farming communities and they also culturally shared a new england congregationalist background. and those are values that they instill in their eldest son and those are the values that john quincy takes to london in 1795 where he meets luisa katherine who definitely comes from a different cultural background.

and so she has more a cosmopolitan european upbringing and rooted in the anglican church. so the idea of cultural proximity and physical proximity really underscores how we can understand the development of these two couples' relationships. there we go. but if we take john and abigail's first letter and this is the famous "miss adorable" letter that john writes in october 1762. and we can really look at that twin idea of proximity in this letter. it's rooted in a culture of familiar letters. it reads like a conversation. it's light. it's loving. it's teasing. it's fun. and the affection and devotion

that is evident in it is certainly characteristic of the corpus of john and abigail's correspondence. if we take next the final letter nearly 40 years later, appropriately, i think, abigail gets the last word. they letter is a very typical letter of abigail adams. it is written in february 1801 from philadelphia as abigail is making her way from washington, d.c. back to quincy john has lost his bid for re-election to thomas jefferson and the couple's public life is coming to a close. and in typical abigail fashion, she writes of the political scene when she arrives in philadelphia. she reports the response to the election to john and she also comments on the honors that are being shown her as she passes through the town.

somebody had printed her arrival in the paper and throngs of people are lining up in the rain to pay their respects to the president's lady. but i think it is the last paragraph that kind of encapsulates abigail at least as she's represented in the correspondence. she writes adieu, my friend, i wish you well tlou the remainder of your political journey. i want to see the list of judges. i think in that you have abigail's afaexfection and devotion to john. you have her concern for john the husband, and you have her concern for john the public servant. and then you have this deep intellectual engagement that she has with political life. that list of judges is of course, the so-called appointees of john. i think it is really this

wonderful, rich, encapsulation of abigail's correspondence. and the reason i showed both the first and the last is that that nearly 1,200 letter span over the course of 40 years is available to us because that proximity changed for the couple. and so going from the courtship period where they are largely together and able to negotiate the bounds of their relationship through conversation they enter 30 years where they spend more time apart than together. this is certainly not a new fact. this is why we have a wonderful and rich historical record from which to draw. but i do think it is something historians dip into in particular wraz to tell particular stories. you want to look at the revolution, there's a certain span of correspondence. you want to tell the evolution of john and/or abigail's

political ideology? tlen you then you run the span of the correspondence. or you can tell the span of abigail as a farm worker. but what we bring to the conversation is a slightly difficult perspective as historians because we work through the correspondence systematically and method icallyically and we engage with the correspondents and its characters in a very intimate way, to some extent. and i think when you look at it at that kind of micro level, then what really emerges is this idea that, yes they were sharing these experiences over time but really their lived experience and their experience as couples is shared only through their letters. and so they have to write about those experiences in a way that

brings them to their partner. and i think there's one just stunning example of this. i have a couple if we have time. but the one that i really want to focus on takes place in 1777. and john is in philadelphia attending the continental congress. he has been there since january. and when he left quincy, he left abigail pregnant with her sixth child. so this span of correspondence picks up on 9 july and it is a 19-day span that i'm looking at. ending on the 28th of july when john receives this first letter. and the first letter is abigail voicing some concerns that things are different with this pregnancy and she's worried that something has happened. and people are telling her that perhaps that's unfounded, but she's a little concerned.

and in a series of four letters, she goes from a few concerns to describing a very difficult physical labor and i have one quoted from that. she's been in labor for 48 hours and she writes, "i must lay my pen down this moment to bear what i cannot fly from. now i have endured it i re-assume my pen. i mean it's really rather remarkable just from a logistics perspective, right? but more than that, the only way that she can share this really painful experience with her partner is by writing about it. and so this is an incredibly intimate detail especially for this time period. and it's that kind of detail that really describes you and brings this experience home.

and for those of you that know the story she gives birth to a stillborn daughter and she writes that letter on july 16th to say that the dear infant is numbered with its ancestors. so in the meantime john who knows that she is close to her time, and is writing of his concern for her well being and his hopes that she's going to give birth to a daughter especially one that had abigail -- who was good, fair and wise and virtuous as the mother, or if perhaps it was a son, had the mother's mind and heart. but other than an awareness that this is about the time, his letters are run of the mill reports on congressional

activities, reports on the progress of the war, and when you read them in a series there's really just this juxtaposition of the two sides of the correspondents. on the 26th he starts to have an idea and he writes, "i am anxious to hear, and the more so because i have no letter from you, nor concerning you by the last post." and i think that's really important, too. because he knows that if anything is wrong someone else would have written him. but they haven't because it's not just -- there's the stillborn child, but abigail's health is in the balance and they can't write until she's safe or not. and so it is this void of information and all he can say is, "i wait for impatience for

monday when the post is to arrive." that's just kind of incredible from this perspective. and two days later the monday post has arrived and he receives the four letters and so within the span of reading four letters, he has moved from concerns, perhaps unfounded, to this very difficult physical journey to the death of his child and the anguish of his partner which he is not there to assuage. and it is just one of those really stark moments that as an editor you get drawn in with the correspondence correspondence. i had a second example and i'm going to keep it very brief since, as editors we also sometimes get caught up in the details. it's from our current volume which is the first presidential volume and these portraits date to the beginning of the adams

presidency. abigail, similarly, is in quincy when john assumes the white house and she again is dealing with death and reporting death. and this time it is his mother whose death she has to report. and also the death of her 21-year-old niece from tuberculosis. so one is expected and one is not, and she writes again these heartwrenching letters. "oh, it is too much to bear. my heart is too big for my bosom. it rends my frame." and she writes about how all of these trials and tribulations she's been through, the majority of them she's been through without the consolation and the comfort and the presence of her partner. and she can only write about that. and there's another set of juxtapositions where john's writing these teasing letters about how his wife and his mother are ganging up on him, you know and that's in between

the abigail's letter about the death and john's response to learning the news. it's just this really glaring detail that it's one of the really remarkable and interesting ways that, as editors, we engage with the correspondents. so i will turn it over to neal to talk. thank you. good morning. so john quincy adams and luisa katherine johnson's courtship correspondence was much more tumultuous than john and abigail's. john quincy and luisa exchanged

twice as many letters than john and abigail, and throughout the correspondence you see the issues that are going to arise later in their marriage starting to show up. their differences in temperaments and opinions, and how these are going to play out later in their married life. i wanted to start by giving you guys a pretty good representation of what they looked like whether they were courting. the actual miniatures that they exchanged with each other that they have the delightful banter about, those were, sadly lost. but these are pretty close to the same time period. john quincy's was done in 1795, so that's when he shows up at the johnson household in london and this is probably what he looked like when he's first courting luisa. luisa's miniature was done in 1797, so the year that she was married. that gives you a pretty good idea about what she looked like at the time. so, in the paper i gave you some

examples of the types of arguments that arose during their correspondence. but another issue that came up that i particularly like is john quincy is writing to luisa katherine in the summer of 1796 asking her how she's spending her time, if she's spending her time wisely, what she's doing to better herself. and he particularly asks her about her performance with the harp. and he says, your progress on the harp i am persuaded is great. however, luisa writes him back and says that, i shall never make any proficiency in this charming accomplishment. she says that i've been spending a lot of time thinking about you and it is hard for me to concentrate on learning the harp. but that was not what john quincy wanted to lear, so he writes her back and says that, all right, well that's fine because playing the harp is a charming but it is also a trivial accomplishment. then he goes on to say i hope

that your hours are employed in acquisition of more valuable qualities. so you can imagine that is not probably the response that luisa was looking for from her future husband husband. then i love this letter that luisa writes to john quincy in march ever 1797 because this really gives you a good idea about where luisa is coming from with their relationship. the first quote that i drew out, she's talking about their separation, how her family's probably having to go to the united states pretty soon. that's going to lengthen the amount of time that they're apart from each other. and she uses the word "forced philosophy" and this is something that i have to be contented with. that was a very particular word because john quincy is constantly writing about his philosophy that he's taken about the fact that they are apart from each other and that they're just going to have to endure it and accept it until a time when

he can come to marry. he says there is something pleasing and grateful in the remembrance of a distant friend. that's how he's viewing their court slp. luisa be with on the other hand, doesn't see it as pleasing and she would much rather they were together than being separated. the next part of the letter luisa gets a little gossipy and she's talking about david humphreys who was the u.s. minister to portugal but is now going to be the u.s. minister to spain and she writes that he just got plaerd tomarried to a british lady and isn't it great they're spending a little bit of time with her family before they go off to their diplomatic posts. this is definitely something that luisa would like to happen. she hopes that when they do marry she'll still be a ibl to spend a little bit of time with her family before they go back to the united states. this is an issue that comes up in their marriage. both of them were very close to their families and in 1801 when john finishes up being minister

to prussia and he comes back to the united states they arrive in philadelphia. john wrants toants to go see his parents in massachusetts because he hasn't seen them for several years. luisa's got her little baby, george washington adams and she wants to go see her parents. they cannot agree so they just go their separate ways. john quincy goes to massachusetts, luisa goes to washington, d.c., and then later on luisa travels with john quincy to massachusetts. so both of them when they were very committed to a particular point of view neither one of them really wanted to back down. in the bottom of this letter is where we start the correspondence talking about chesterfield's letters and the whole debate on what is luisa reading, what should luisa reading, is john quincy adams reading too much. in this letter lieu we ka catherine is writing to john quincy 17 february 1797.

she is talking about the time when finally he'll be done with diplomatic service and they will be able to get married and spend time together. and it's very prescient what she writes because she says, i shall see you divested of rank and shall prove the sincerity of my attachment by convincing you that it was not your situation but yourself that i loved. and i think that's really important because when john quincy and luisa get engaged, the idea is that she will bring a dowry. when they actually get married, her father joshua johnson's, finances have collapsed so she does not bring any money to the marriage. this is an issue that comes up again and again in their relationship and in their married life. luisa feels like she can never complain or argue about financial issues because she didn't bring any money to the marriage so she really doesn't have a foot to stand on. but it doesn't stop her from you know lamenting the decisions that john makes financially. like in 1803 when he decides to

sell their house in boston. and they're going to be living in quincy and john quincy adams' birthplace when they're in town. and she much prefers to live in boston and so she's lamenting to herself and lamenting in letters the fact that they've lost their boston home. but again she feels like i really can't say anything because it's his money and he's going to be making the decisions. and so i showed you the miniatures. i wanted to show you some larger portraits. this is john quincy adams done by john singleton copley in 1796. so around the time when he's again, in london courting luisa at the johnson family household. and abigail really liked this image. she said that john quincy favored thomas boylston so much. luisa thought it was a little too flattering so take what you will of that. here's luisa catherine painted in 1824 with her harp.

john quincy particularly liked to go to the johnson household when he was in london and hear the girls sing and play musical instruments. luisa i think was very happy with the fact that by the 1820s the harp had come back into vogue. despite what she might have said earlier, she was accomplished musician and so she decided to be painted with the popular instrument at the time. now proximity did play a major role in the courtship letters. and the difference in background between the two individuals was also important. john and abigail spend a lot of their married life apart. abigail is with the children, john was away. so we get these great exchanges between that couple. the difference with john quincy and luisa is once they get married, they're spending most of their time together. when john quincy has different

diplomatic roles luisa is follows him. the difference is that their children are often being left in massachusetts to be educated and be reared by family members. this was particularly hard on luisa and this was a constant argument between them. john quincy wanted the boys to have a really good education, but luisa, particularly when the boys got older and the tragedies that happened in george washington adams' life and john adams ii she wondered if she'd spent more time with then if things had been different. there is about six years that she doesn't see her sons. she leaves them as little boys. and when she seize them again in london they're 12 and 14 years old they're almost teenagers and almost strangers to their parents. so that must have been particularly difficult issue to deal with in their marriage. but i don't want to leave you

thinking that all is gloom and doom. so i want to end with john quincy adams' diary. historians have said that if you j uft look at john quincy adams' diary you don't really get a good idea about luisa because he doesn't mention her a lot and it is in passing. this is their wedding anniversary. july 26, 1811. he's writing in his diary just for himself and he reflects on their marriage thus far but i want to read you part of it. he says, our union has not been without its trials nor invariably without dissensions between us. there are many differences of sentiment, of taste and of opinions in regard to domestic economy and to the education of children between us. there are natural frailties of temper in both of us. both being quick and irascible and mine being sometimes harsh. but she has always been a faithful and affectionate wife

and a careful, tender, indulgent and watchful mother. i have found in this conviction a full conviction that my lot in marriage has been highly favored. and i think that's why they did stay married for 50 years and have a great relationship, because in the end they were a perfect partnership and they played off each other. for all their temperments and faults they both realized they made the right decision in choosing their life partner. thank you. >> thank you so much steve, sara and neal. sara and steve, do you want top join us up on the podium here? if anyone has any questions for any of the speakers. we have a couple of microphones that can be brought around to the audience.

>> i have a question for sara martin. >> yes, sir. >> are there any surviving letters of abigail's before she married john, such as you can say how her writing style developed and what the influences were. >> yes. there are. she had several female and male writing correspondents and it fits within kind can of the culture of familiar letters in that especially with the women. the letters were being used as a means of educating themselves so they're discussing the books they're reading, they're kind of exploring political ideas and they're doing it very consciously in a way to educate themselves. and so one of the letters i can

think of is to her cousin isaac smith, and she's saying that -- proudly, she's reporting that she has now some little familiarity with the french language and she does so by -- she demonstrates her prowess by translate ing translating a sample of french and including it with the letter. and so there is -- it's not a large number and i can't give you a number off the top of my head. but there's multiple correspondents, both male and female. and it is definitely kind of -- it is the same ideas that are reflected in her early correspondence with john. she's very much interelectricity ul -- intellectually tentative. which is consistent throughout her correspondence. but she's finding her footing. certainly it is not the confident intellectual abigail we would see in her later

correspondence. >> i just want to say that just so impressed by a letter. the very letter that she writes to john is so extraordinary. coming from somebody like me who has a background in sort of 18th century intellectual history and things. it is sort of in the most likely place you find it. it is abigail -- isn't this the one she's writing and saying why didn't you come visit me last time? and where were you? you said you'd come. you said you must be sick. you wouldn't come -- said you would only miss me if you must be sick. you must be sick, kind of thing which is always the kind of letter you hate to receive. even in e-mails texts, all these things today. but she does it so charmingly. we have this sense, everyone around us have this concern for us. people close to us, we have more

concern. that's sort of going backwards from the classic work of social theory at this time which is thinking about the ways in which benevolence and people's concern for each other sort of extends outward and eventually encompasses the whole world and the entire universe. even the very beginning she's the one who's bringing in the sort of depths there of using this deep intellectual history in ways that aren't immediately obvious like even remember the ladies exchange. there are all these things she's quoting yet you wouldn't know it -- actually unless you didn't have people who had written on it before and written brilliantly before. >> i had a question maybe to all three of you. having to do with the change in attitudes or maybe evolution of thought with john adams and john quincy adams, both married to two very strong and intelligent women. as you reviewed the

correspondence and diary entries, did you notice any change in tone or change in understanding that might suggest that john adams' view towards women -- not just abigail but towards women in general. and the same with respect to john quincy adams. did you sense a clang in tone having lived with and experienced a long marriage with these two women. >> well, i'll speak on john quincy. he had the 14-month engagement. he had the courtship. as a young man he'd spent a lot of time with his father traveling around europe being a diplomat surrounded by older men and spending a lot of time in a very male environment. but i think when he marries luisa and they get to prussia, so they're in a country where neither one of them really has the upper hand and they're sort of on neutral ground. then luisa starts to have a

series of miscarriages. then john is taking care of her. she did have a doctor but he's -- john quincy is spending a lot of time taking care of her. and i think that changes his view radically because he's spending time for the first time as a married man. he and luisa are constantly with each other and i think seeing what she's going through and the hardships that she's dealing with, i think that does a lot to influence his outlook. >> so john and abigail, i think that -- i don't know that it is an evolution necessarily and how he thinks about women. i think you could discuss how he thinks about abigail, and certainly there is a shift in the correspondence in how he intellectually engages her. so the early letters, there's definitely more of an instructional tone and in the later letters it is actually an engagement with equals.

i mean both john and abigail are great advocates of public education and they actually are both advocates of both female and male public education. and i think in a humanorous exchange -- i think it is a late 1770s, he basically writes, "oh woman. i'm writing politics to a woman. gads!" you know it's humerus and it's one of those things where he's commenting similar to the jocular aspect of the "remember the ladies" letter. there is very much the kind of teasing tone. but the fact of the matter is part of abigail's attraction to john was that intellectual engagement she demonstrated. sand and certainly he fostered it and facilitated its growth in the beginning but it was a respect and a mutual love for them. and they're both in their later

correspondence saying oh have you read this, and da da da. he's responding and she's like, okay, well what about this person? they were perhaps not intellectual equals they were intellectual conversationalists and i do think you see that kind of shift in the equality of the exchange over the course of the correspondence. >> i was just going to say, what i'm struck by is how well john and abigail get along with each other and how much troubles particularly john has getting along with almost everyone else. i presume a lot of you guys are abigail fans here. that's kind of extraordinary sort of thing that he's so extraordinarily polite and sharing and fun and you don't get that sense from other people viewing him in the 1790s,

particularly. although i guess i'd say, that you -- i have a similar sense about abigail, too. in "abby," abigail the younger comes to visit john and the reason she thinks that he's going to be this harsh kind of guy presumably is because she's grown up with abigail and making her think that john was a kind of tough guy. it's sort of comforting to me -- it is one of the reasons i included it there even though i was running out of time. it is one of those gears one of those speeds that you don't think john adams has, the sort of very polite, very genteel, knowing how to treat somebody just so beautifully that they write in their diary at night how extraordinary he was. >> do you -- to anyone. do you recall any of the letters from any of the four celebrities either describing their towns

their communities, such as braintree, weymouth quincy or even boston? >> there are many. is the very short answer. and they're spending time in all of those communities. certainly abigail and john are. and frequently -- i mean if you're talking about descriptions of physical landscape, then you get that through john's letter. he was always this hobby farmer. and while he is engaged in the very important political life that he experiences, he's longing for that rural release of his agriculture and his fields and he just wants to ride and be in the fields and so there's these wonderful descriptions, both abigail is providing them when she's in quincy because she knows that

they provide him a certain amount of solace while he's engaged in his public business. then i think one of the things that's new to me with this volume because this is the first volume we've been working on where abigail is not rooted in quincy for the entire time, and so her sister mary smith kranch is writing. that's new for me because since the four volumes i'm working on she hasn't been a major figure but we have these wonderful letters from her and she's doing the same for abigail. she's saying today i drove by your house and it looks so lonely. but then she goes on to describe that the clover is coming into bloom and the strawberries are coming in this the garden and she has these wonderful rich descriptions of the landscape. so that's kind of the aspect of the question you are talking about, it's certainly there because they were very rooted to their home spaces in quincy.

>> excellent program. this could be for either sara or neal. i love the proximity theme that you addressed. i was curious if you could comment on john quincy adams perhaps using that lack of proximity, the theme in his introduction of lieu weeuisa catherine to abigail and the teasing through the letters and teasing of his own mother. can you comment on that? >> yes. you guys might be aware that john quincy had had an earlier relationship with mary frasier that did not work out. his parents were very involved with that giving him feedback. so i think this time he was playing his cards much closer to his chest. i mean he physically was on the other side of the ocean, but

that didn't stop abigail from giving him advice before so i think she -- he felt that "i will do this at my own speed and i will make my own decision here. i'm a grown man." but he is very teasing in what he does tell her. then abigail of course figures it out because she's abigail and she still is giving him advice particularly not so much on luisa as a person but on lieu we is a as someone growing up in london, in a fine household and what a shock it is going to be for her when she becomes the wife of a diplomat who doesn't particularly have a lot of money, and then coming back to massachusetts where she had never been before. and so i think abigail's trying to tell john quincy that he needs to make her aware of this. and he does. he is very explicit in their correspondence about there is the life you're going to have.

and luisa accepts that and she loves john and she's willing to accept whatever he comes up with. but yeah, i think this is him asserting his individuality and the fact that he is a grown man and he's going to make his own decisions. >> as both a wife and a mother, i find that both of their marriages were very unconventional in that i think for john and abigail abigail is a very independent extremely bright woman but because they were apart for so long, she had her own domain. she had control. she had her own, if you want to call it, power and that her relationship with john was sort of more of an emotional and intellectual banter, i would say. because he wasn't there through all those childrearing years. on the other hand, luisa and

john quincy, lieu we is a luisa, while she was totally dedicated to john quincy, she was torn away from her children so there was none of that -- child rearing as a family, i guess. while maybe it worked for both of their personalities and their relationships. i just find both of the relation relationships quite unconventional. and very remarkable obviously. but they didn't have the same kinds of perhaps stresses in their relationship that perhaps they would have had had they been the nuclear family unit. i don't know what your thoughts would be on that. >> so i would agree to the extent that we are dealing with not necessarily common marital situations.

but i think it's not -- especially during the revolutionary years, it is not necessarily that uncommon. abigail was certainly not the only woman that was left guarding the home front. i mean as has been true for wars throughout the ages. we know more about it because the correspondence survives. so i think you have to take that with a little bit of a grain of salt that just as there isn't necessarily a one-type-fits-all for marriage today that was true back then. and yes we are dealing with incredibly independent people. and you can see that. i mean you can see that in the way abigail handles the management of their property. she's very cautious and asking for advice early in the marriage. and then she's a little more confident. by the 1790s she's referring to them as "her" farms. you know? so there's definitely that

evolution. but i don't think it's that their relationship was founded on love and intellectual engagement. i mean that is a critical component but they were very present in each other's lives, and that's what the letters are. i mean that's how they remained present in each other's lives. that was the means that they had. and yes, john quincy and luisa existed -- or their lives -- excuse plea -- their children were rooted here while they were off for extended periods of times. but so too, were john and abigail's children at various times away from the home. john took both of his elder sons with him to europe, and so -- and at one point he puts charles on a boat to come back to the united states by himself and abigail hears about it second hand. then the both doesn't arrive

because it runs into -- so she literally has no idea where in the world her son is. so i mean it's a different degree than perhaps your idea of the nuclear family but i think they had the same concerns. they just play out differently. >> thank you so much. thank you. we'll take a short break. so if you have any questions for the speakers you can talk to them during the break. there's refreshments to the left, the room to the left of me. in the back room -- actually at the front of the church we have books for sale. there are rest rooms at the back and down the stairs and thank you very much. you're watching american history tv. all weekend every weekend on c-span3. to join the conversation, like us on facebook at c-span

history. up next on american history tv, university of virginia history professors gary gail ger and peter onuf discuss thomas jefferson's views on federalism and the union of the states. they debate jefferson's provocative belief in the separation of races. president lincoln's preservation of the union during the civil war and how jefferson would view today's federal government. . session from the miller center at the university of virginia is about two hours. >> anyone who hopes to understand the 19th century in the united states has to come to terms with the importance of union. as a deeply important concept and highly charged word in the political vocabulary. it is a word that's gone from our political vocabulary now. it literally means flog to most americans now. the word union. if it isn't associated with labor. union in a sense was so important during the 19th

century is gone. there were contending understandings of the meaning of union. almost always tied to ideas about liberty and opportunity and frequently enmeshed with beliefs about the place of the institution of slavery in the american republic. all of the individuals who have been the subjects of lectures in this series talked about union, from maed sondison and other framers of the constitution who drafted what they thought would lead to a more perfect union to andrew jackson who very famously referred to union in making a toast while he looked right at john c. calhoun during the nullification crisis on jefferson's birthday in 1832. he said our federal union must be preserved, to which, as many of you know, calhoun replied the union next to our liberty most dear. during the election of 1860 when four candidates ran for the presidency under four party standards, all of them talked about