provide eyewitness accounts of the korean war. we'll hear from salvatore conte and was forced to live in solitary confinement for eight months. he'll also talk about how he survived as a pow for two years. this program is about 50 minutes. >> where were you born? >> new york city. >> when? >> december 1th 19st 1930. >> 1st. >> no way. that's day i got captioned. december 24th 1929. >> christmas eve? >> yeah. it's an interesting story that goes with that. i was delivered by a midwife and the midwife of my mother conspired instead of registering me december 249th they did in

january 1st 1930. if there was a draft, it would have me as later year. it was so prevent me from going to war but i ended up. >> tell me about your family. >> beautiful family, wonderful neighborhood. primarily italian. some jewish but primarily italian. we had lots of activity because of the abundance of males. a lot of sports were involved. no baseball. no baseball fields. >> how many siblings? >> two more. an older brother. they are both deceased. >> all boys? >> yeah. >> what school did you go to in new york city? >> ps 112 was my grammar school.

>> ps 112? >> yeah. >> your grammar school. >> in brooklyn. junior high school was shallow junior high school from the 9th to the 12th grade. no, the junior high school was the 10th to the 12th. what's >> what's the name of it? >> shallow was the junior high school and then texile. it was a school sponsored by some textile guy. part of the curriculum is you had to take one season, one

semester of textile. >> kind of internship? >> right. >> when did you graduate? >> 1946. >> what did you do that was right after the end of the world war ii? >> yeah. right after the end of world war ii. i was at the time. had the war gone on another year i probably would have enlisted in world war ii at 17. in september 1948, i enlisted in the army with some dear friends of mine. two other guys with me. >> that happened a lot, right? >> yeah. >> buddies going together? >> yeah. one of the guys that enlisted with us, he didn't someday with us. he was transferred to another camp. me and this other fellow we

were childhood friends since pre-school. we managed to stay together even in basic training and all the way to korea. >> where did you receive the basic military training? >> it was army chemical center in maryland. >> chemical center? >> army chemical center. >> what kind? >> it was the headquarters for army chemical center. >> did you get any chemical weapons training? >> we were trained with smoke the smoke screens. chemical smoke company. >> i see. >> infantry? >> we took basic infantry training and after that we took specialized training with all kinds of weapons and smoke

generators. >> smoke generalteorsgenerators. wow. of an advanced military training? >> yeah. well they had a unit like that in world war ii, you know, smoke screens for particular battles like that. after i got captured, i didn't what they did. they used one smoke screen when they were drawing from the reservoir area to go to hunan, and they had to lay a smoke screen down. >> did you learn anything about korea or any asian countries in high school? >> no no. the only thing i knew about korea was that elizabeth taylor

had gotten engaged to one of the west point famous place -- i think his name was davis, and he was stationed in korea. and i never had heard of korea before that. >> you came to north korea because of elizabeth taylor's marriage? >> well, engagement. it was the first time i heard of the country of korea. later on we got more informed about it. these japanese annex career -- what was it 1903? >> 1905 and then 1910 fully occupied. >> for the older koreans we met in the north and south, they all smoke spoke japanese. >> what happened to you after basic military training? where did you go?

>> i played baseball for the army. >> what? >> i was supposed to go to officer candidate school. we had just had two new noncommissioned officers transfer to our company. >> yeah. >> pre-world war ii guys. and one in particular didn't like me too much, and he was always picking on me. >> why was it? >> he was getting very offensive about my heritage and everything. >> oh. >> so i threatened to slap him. going in the orderly room there was a sign on the wall that said baseball tryouts. for two years i played baseball for the army. >> what position? >> third base. >> you were the official army baseball player? >> yeah. >> what was your record?

>> i batted about 276. i was a good third baseman. i had a strong arm. >> where did you play most? >> we played all the military bases in the area. in maryland and virginia and parts of pennsylvania all the military bases naval base army bases, marine bases, so we played all over that area. >> how much were you paid at the time? >> pay. well army pay. >> what was that? >> as a pfc, i think i was making $95 a month. they had just raised it -- >> are you sure? $95, that sounds a lot. >> when i was first in it was 55. >> i may be wrong. i'm not sure. >> maybe special salary for the

baseball players approximate. >> no, there was no special salaries. >> so you had a good time? >> oh, i loved it. played night baseball. >> and many goals came to you? >> as a matter of fact, it got me engaged to a girl from baltimore. >> i knew that. so what happened? how did you end up in -- >> what happened was when the korean war broke out, i was due for discharge. my enlistment was only two years. now i had a month's leave coming. september 3rd 1948 was when i enlisted. because i had a month's leave coming, that would be august 3rd. he had been told our company was

going to go overseas. he says, look, this is where it is at conte. nothing i can do because i had special orders from the general opposed. i was tdy, but he said we're moving out. where are you going to go? you're going to be up for grabs or you can stay with the guys you have been with for two years. so i decided to stay with the guys i had been with for two years, so i quit the baseball team. >> and -- >> went out to california and went on a ship. >> do you remember the day you left for japan? >> we left the base on my discharge day august 4th 1950. it took us about seven days to go across. you know what was great about it? the old pullman cars. they were great. i loved it. you know what the old pullman

cars are like? with the shades and a little lamp one above the other. it was nice. it was a regular steam train. fort lewis was where we -- >> fort lewis seattle? >> yeah, i think it's seattle. >> when did you leave for japan? >> i don't know. i don't remember the exact date. august 4th we left maryland. you figure about ten -- maybe about the 14th of august. somewhere around that period. >> 1950? >> yeah, 1950. and we sailed to yokoha manyma. >> how was the ship? >> it was nice. not a big one. >> i heard from many they smell

all dirty. >> that happened later on. they had a trough. when the ship was doing this, that trough would be flowing. you >> what did you do in japan? >> we went to a big japanese air base. it was huemhumongus. >> could you spell again? >> atsugi.

that's where he landed. >> and -- >> there was a village that ran through the camp. it was right below. it was off limits to us, but we used to sneak out there to go grab a beer or something. >> and -- >> have a little sport. >> how long in japan? >> then we boarded ships. now we're talking about maybe three weeks in atsugi. then we boarded ships and we sat in yokohama harbor for about ten days. didn't know what was happening until we amassed this big armada. then we took off. then we came around the north of korea. >> do you remember the date that you arrived? >> the first wave was september 15th. >> yeah.

>> we went on the second wave. it was either the 16th or the 17th because of the tide. you could only do one a day. that kind of thing. >> what unit did you belong? >> the same unit. 69 chemical. >> 69 chemical. >> chemical smoke. >> what did you see when you got there? >> we did all the usual stuff. we did the climbing out of the ships with the nets getting into the landing craft. but by the time we got to the beach, everybody was piled up. it was all over because the day before there was such a surprise that there was hardly any casualties. >> right. >> the marines caused few casualties. they went in first. when we came in it was practically all over. at that point -- >> thank god, right? >> right. but so much was demolished at that point. they were fighting at the han

river just above seoul. we never saw any of that. then we went south as a mop up thing. we stayed there about two to three weeks. we were loading the supply ships. then we boarded ships again and we made the yellow invasion north of the 38th parallel in -- >> yeah. >> when we got there -- have you ever heard of bob hope? >> yeah. >> the mps would say keep going, keep going. next thing we know we were in this big stadium. there was bob hope and marilyn maxwell. it was great. >> how did you feel to see this entertainers? they were in the battlefield.

>> when you're doing an invasion, there weren't -- weird thoughts go through your head. they used to show these army things about the normandy invasion. have you ever seen that film clip? >> yeah. >> normandy invasion. they did a live shot. two guys running on the beach. boom, two guys get shot. that was going through my mind. had no idea what to expect because you're vulnerable. >> right. >> you're highly vulnerable. then we moved out going further north. thanksgiving we were at a town called sudong and we had thanksgiving dinner there and the weather had changed dramatically. then we got word -- there were rumors that there were chinese troops. there were chinese troops in

korea. we hope for christmas. it'll be all over for christmas. but then we started hearing rumors about chinese troops. then from there we were at this town called sudong. when we approached the sound they put me on point. the company stayed way behind and i had to go into this town. there was a big building there, a brick building. it turned out to be a conservatory, a music conservatory, and i had to go through there to make sure nobody was there. that was really scary. by the time i got to the second floor, i was trigger happy. i saw this baby grand piano on a landing. >> really? >> i don't know why i did it but i was so anxious and so relieved. there was a fire ax on the wall and i chopped that poor piano up

and i rolled it down the stairs. i was really relieved there was nobody in that building with those guys 300 yards down the road. after that day, they did two volunteers to go get in touch with the 31st infantry regiment, specifically "b" company. we were with a marine supply depo. once we got up to the plateau of the kotery -- apparently the day before they had gotten wiped out. there was tents flapping in the wind. then there wasn't much further after that we heard -- we were driving in a jeep and we picked

up a straggler from the "b" company. we're driving down this road toward another town. we hear all this machine gunfire. we thought we were coming up the rear end of a firefight, but all that machine gunfight was directed at us. they blew the jeep out from under us. we had a drainage ditch. we got into the ditches right away, but we all got hit. my friend got hit in the wrist. i caught shrapnel in my calf. this other guy got hit five times. they overpowered us and they took us prisoner. >> what day is this? >> this is december 1st 1950. we were three together, but after a week of marching, we

ended up with a big group we were looking for, 31st infantry and 400 marines that got taken. >> did you belong to 7th infantry? >> infantry what division did you belong to? >> we had a lot of vehicles. and we had some heavy weapons. we had like three or four 50s and a lot of.30 calibers. >> you were wounded in your right calf. >> yeah, right calf. >> and were you able to walk? >> yeah yeah. i didn't even realize i was wounded. i know i got hit but i didn't see any blood. >> so blood didn't -- >> no it was cold. i got lucky.

>> sometimes this cold weather cures everything, right? >> when the weather warmed up, a lot of the guys started bleeding. >> oh. >> it wasn't uncommon. it was very common that guys got hit. they knew they were hit, but i was lucky. i was still mobile. >> so how long did you walk to get where? >> we walked about i guess ten days or two weeks. we got to a town around january. >> what was there? was prison camp there? >> it was a big city once. it was a big city. they used to take over village korean villages. they would confiscate them and

would march. we were living in korean homes. sometimes the koreans were still in the house. they would be in part of the house and we were in the other part of the house. >> so that was kind of a prison camp there? >> yeah, this was the first one. it was just a village. there were plenty of armed guards around us. >> how many meals a day? >> sometimes twice. the chinese called it red rice. it was sorgum. do you know what that is? >> yeah. sometimes twice, so regularly once? >> it depended on the circumstance. we were mostly on a march. the chinese had to scrounge for food to feed us. >> did they cook or did you

cook? >> no, they cooked. >> so only sorgum? >> yeah, that's it. >> any other? >> sometimes on watch before we got there they would feed us whatever they could get from the local koreans. one particular meal we had -- there was a meat in this one meal that we had, which was delicious. >> pork? >> dog. >> did you have boots on your foot? >> yeah, i was lucky. what happened we were issued these rubber boots where you had inserts and you had to remove -- you kept one set of inserts on your body then you had to change off. it was a very dumb kind of a boot. >> you're talking about mickey mouse boot? >> what? >> mickey mouse boot? no? you never heard of it?

>> no. so i put on my old leather boots. most of the guys who had the rubber boots they got in the march. if it would freeze they used to lose toes. frostbite would happen a lot faster. >> raymond that i just had the interview with, he had no socks. they took off the booth and they gave him a north korean sandal. >> through the winter? >> yeah. unbelievable isn't it? >> it was cold but was really the thing -- it was the wind. they came in four day cycles. it would start off like a breeze. by the time the third or fourth day came you're talking about 40, 50 60 mile an hour winds

with subzero temperatures. if you could get out of the wind, you could survive. but if you were stuck in that wind, if you weren't moving and you weren't dressed properly, you were dead. some of the chinese guards -- they would find them in the morning froze to death. >> you mean even chinese soldiers? >> yeah. they were watching us at nighttime. two or three of them at the end of the night froze to death. what am i doing here? there must be a better way. let's go home. the war is over. it was mostly jokes. you find yourself in a foreign country and you're fighting a war. all of a sudden the reality of this preposterous situation becomes a reality.

>> did you believe in god? >> i used to. >> what does that mean? >> after i saw the treatment and the way the death toll and the camps was so bad, so high i wasn't much of a believer anymore. i believed in myself. that was the only comfort i could get was in my own state of mind and my own condition to stay alive. >> you didn't stay up to the release, right? >> no, no. congay, what happened there -- the chinese plan was to put us through this indoktctrine -- >> there?

>> yeah. usually the interpreter, their english was very, very bad, so we tolerated. we just sat there. >> what did they say actually? >> what? >> what did they say? >> it was primarily criticism. criticized wall street. we were being fooled and lied to. the usual propaganda that went along with that stuff. a lot of it may be true. [ laughter ] but at the time we listened. they insisted on us signing some sort of petition. we refused and we got word from the officers that were in charge there. there was a marine major

mclaughlin. we're going to release you en masse. we're going to march you south and release all of you guys as a big propaganda thing. can you imagine being released, 400 prisoners of war as a propaganda move? it would have been shattering to the morale of our troops. during the chinese revolution, when they took chinese prisoners and the nationalists prisoners, they would put them through a two week propaganda schooling thing and then they would release them because they didn't want prisoners. so they would release them. so what happened then we marched all the way south from congay all the way down towards the front line. all the way down there -- the

guards, they all knew we were going home. our spirits were great. >> when was this? >> this was january february -- january, february, march of 1950. yeah, it was the end of february, the beginning of march. >> of 1951. >> of '51 yeah. >> so you thought you were released? >> yeah. at the point of release something changed. and they released 20 marines or they left them there unattended. they eventually said they escaped, but i think the army didn't want to make it look like they were released by the chinese. then they turned us around to march back up again. now our morale, forget about it. it was shattered.

one minute you're going home and the next minute you're going back the way you came from and further north. when we got up to the river, when we got to this town called chong son. >> camp 1 or 3? >> it was camp 1. i became very political, so i called a meeting. >> why did they get you back to the camp? >> there was a rumor that there was a possibility that we may have been taken by our own troops. in other words, we were not being released, we were being recaptured which would have been contradictory -- i think there was something going on between both sides about brainwash brainwashing. so i called this meeting of a

bunch of guys. from here on in, we're not students. we're prisoners of war. if we stick together, no more of this baloney of propaganda crap. treat us as prisoners of war. this is geneva convention kind of thing. they decided to find who may be possible leaders. this is where they could isolate you, whether you were in big in size or brighter than somebody else. you maybe had a better education. they kept an eye on you. i became very vocal. they encouraged discussion. they would have these big propaganda meetings. they were encourage any questions. i would say south korea did not

invade north korea. it doesn't make sense when an invading army gets pushed back to the perimeter. all the guys would jump in and start asking questions. this is when i got on the chinese list. we used to call it the shit list, pardon the expression. >> you were isolated and tortured? >> a little bit here and a little bit there. they would take me out two or three weeks at a time and put me in isolation. >> what do you mean isolation? to a special room by yourself? >> solitary. they would let me back into the company and they decided to form what they called a reactionary squad. they selected me to be the squad leader. i was responsible for any damage these guys did. it would all fall on me. but we were pretty cool.

there was a big holiday with the chinese. it symbolized something with the russian revolution and the chinese revolution. usually on these holidays they would feed us better. we would get white rice, maybe a little bit of pork, sometimes even flour. that night i had to go to latrine during the sleep. i saw these big banners for the march the next day. i told my guys in my squad i'm not going to march because there's going to be photographers there taking pictures of how we're being treated. i don't want to be part of that propaganda. when we all fell out that day, my squad and myself when we went back into our room -- the rest of the company saw and they went back to their rooms. the word went down to the

british company. they went back in their rooms. the next night in the middle of the night they came with a flashlight. they took me out and put me in solitary. that's when i was confined to those wooden boxes. have you heard anything about that? >> yeah. tell me. >> it was a wooden box. we called it the kennel. it was about 3 1/2 feet high and 2 1/2 feet wide and 5 feet long. but i was the last one in the wooden boxes. me and an englishman keith godman. from there when they let me out, that was in december of 1952 -- they let me out of the

box. they gave me like four or five letters that my family had written me that they held onto. >> how long were you in the wooden box? eight months. >> eight months. >> by yourself? >> from may to december yes. >> you were not allowed to come at all? >> twice a day. >> twice a day. if you had disentary you were in trouble. i went to latrine and the guard was yelling at me to hurry up and i couldn't. i could barely move. as i went back into the box, he was poking me with a bayonnet.

this guy got so frightened he dropped his weapon and he ran. i went back in the box closed the gate put the lock on it. my primary interrogator came with some guards and they marched me out of the camp through a village and then they had me climb up a mountain. i knew this was what they were going to do. they were going to shoot me. they would say i attempted to escape. all i had on was a pair of -- just little underwear, like boxer type of white underwear. got up on top of the hill and now he's reading off my death sentence, all the charges against me, and how i couldn't be rehabilitated. i was a typical type of wall street mongering war criminal.

they tied me around. they took the handcuffs off tied me around the tree and the guards posted a rifle at me. at that time, i became very calm. the sky was a nice blue sky, beautiful day, warm, no breeze. then click. no bullet in the gun. so then he said however -- when he said however i knew there was a good chance i could get out of this. but i told him, look whatever you do don't put me back in the box. whatever you do, don't put me back in the box. sure enough they put me back in the box, which was what i wanted because that was my security blanket. once i was in there, i was going to be alive. they weren't going to shoot me anymore. it was an old briar rabbit kind

of thing. don't throw me into the briar patch and he did and they took off. i was there for eight months. in our box -- you know the korean kitchens they were lower in the rest of the house. there was a bunch of boxes in this hut. my box -- there was three boxes. they were outside the hut and a lean-to with a straw mat in front. >> what? >> straw mat in front to cover the box. well, they brought an englishman in. one was empty in the middle and he was in the -- the guards decided to have a little sport. they wanted to play around to amuse themselves. they started working us over, me and this englishman. after a couple hours of this nonsense, then we went back in the box.

then they took derek kenny out. the guy who was in charge of the guys was a mean son of a gun. we called him the crab because he walked sideways. they're kicking him. he wouldn't stand at attention. between the separation of the straw mats, i couldn't see him anymore. i could hear him, but i couldn't see him. he was only about ten feet away. then i heard a shot go off. i figured they shot derek kenny. the next thing i know derek kenny is brought back into the box. i said what happened. he said the grease gun had a wire handle. it fires on a forward motion. the slide is always back around the chamber. when he was beating this englishman, the gun went off and he killed himself. they took him. that was the last i saw of derek

kenny. i used to hear him every night hollering and cursing because they were beating him up. then eventually i ran into him at this other camp camp 2. they had 21 of us in this one building with a fence around it for the first time. there was just a straw mat. there was separation with the straw mats. there wasn't like we were in a room or anything. we were outside. >> yeah. >> my box was outside. >> right. so one box. >> there was three boxes together. the empty one was in the middle and the englishman was in the other one. during the daytime you had to sit upright. at nighttime, you could lay down, but you couldn't stretch out. we were very skinny in those days. >> once you get out of the box twice a day, how long do they allow you to stay outside of the box? >> it depends on the guard.

sometimes you could stay a minute longer, maybe two minutes longer. if you were lucky you could catch a new guard. one time i was finding chinese cigarette butts to save the tobacco. i was able to roll a cigarette. but i had no matches, so we got a new guard. i got the cigarette and i put it on my ear like it was supposed to be there. when he let me out of the box, i said -- i went to the chinese guy, do you have a match? he goes into his pocket. he takes out matches and he lights my cigarette. so i took a couple of puffs on it. we had these small little bamboo things that we slept on. then we had the coat they had issued us. i put a couple of them together and i put the cigarette butt at the end of that thing for the guys in the other room.

there's this cigarette butt sticking in midair. the chinese guard was looking all around the room. he never spotted the cigarette butt while it was smoking. >> how did you endure that small box for eight months? >> a matter of will. i could get into a deep thought and i could teleport myself way somewhere else. do you understand what i'm is a saying? >> yes. you were like a meditateor. >> yes. i read a book about someone who was incarcerated. there was a movie with gary cooper. he would do this teleportation. we all had a common dream that

we were home in the dream. but before we woke up, we would tell our parents or people i have to get back. we would grab magazines and candy bars. there was a common thread with all the guys. >> what about the towel on the baseball you made? >> we had two little hand towels about that long. very thin. one of them was falling apart. i was kind of rubbing it a little bit. so i took another strand out made it bigger and i made it a little bit bigger. next thing i know i could make a baseball here. i pulled these two towels thread by thread. i had a piece of soap. every time i had some thread, i would put the soap around to keep it in place. i got to a point where i had built the exact replica of a baseball. i played baseball. i knew what the size was you

know? when they had taken me out of the box to take me to go someplace, i don't know, to watch up or something, i saw a friend of mine, jack kirby. i threw a baseball to this friend of mine. he thought i was throwing a message to him, so he cut the baseball up. >> how many meals a day? >> twice. in the afternoon they would give us something like a soup. it was some watery soup kind of thing with some dried biscuit. sometimes we would get that in the afternoon, but it was mostly in the morning and then at nighttime. one time during that four day cycle -- i'm not inside the building. i am outside. >> i know. >> i used to prepare for it. day by day, i knew it was going to increase. i would have it over my head. my own breath would keep me

warm. i'd stay huddled up. with my own breath, i was able to stay warm. one night, this chinese guard, he saw the situation. i could hear him getting sacks of corn stalk and putting it around the box. it was a gesture i never expected. it almost made me cry. there is humanity here. >> did you have a blanket inside? >> yeah. we were issued a blanket. in the wintertime we had the cotton padded uniforms. it was trousers and a jacket. they gave us this cotton padded coat. >> did you talk about this when you were released? >> yeah, it was the papers. >> in the paper? >> when we were released -- >> when was it? >> august 27th of 1953. >> right. >> but prior to that when we

got released one of the officers said there's a press sent over there. if you want to talk for them, you can. if you don't want to, they won't bother you. i said i want to go to the press. there was an australian reporter. his name was winston birchhead. he worked for "the daily work." it was a communist english newspaper. it was the only newspaper we'd get. it was the english version of the shanghai news. >> what was it called? >> "the daily worker." there would be phony pictures of us playing sports and having a good time. i said i wanted to go to the

press tent. i said winston birchhead. they said he isn't here, so i left. i went back later. i says is he here yet? no. what happened? they pulled his kren dencredentials. why did you want to talk to him? i said i didn't want to talk to him. i wanted to slap his face. if you really want to know what happened, this is what happened. then when i got home, it was all over the newspapers in america. "the ap." the newspapers across the country. when i got to japan i was talking to my brother. he says you're all over the newspapers here in america. there was a lot of publicity because of that particular

incident where i wanted to slap a communist newspaperman. >> what is korea to you? >> it was like a strange place with a lot of strange memories. it was mixed emotion, but later on it became like what would happen to south korea made me feel good. made me feel good about that whole war because it seems like everything after that, everything turns bad. but we were able to salvage something out of that war. we salvaged a country with a major industrial power with great living conditions and apparently a lot of prosperity too. the c-span cities tour takes book tv and american history tv on the road traveling to cities

to learn about their history and litter literary life. >> after months and months of cleaning the house, charles halpern was making one more walk through. he looked over and saw a envelope with a green seal on it. he noticed the date was an 1832 document. he removed a single nail from a panel in and upstairs attic room and discovered a trunk books, and portraits stuffed up under the eves and this was this treasure of dolly madison's things. but trying to include her life story from her birth to her death in 1849. some of the items that we currently have on