to learn about their history and litter literary life. >> after months and months of cleaning the house, charles halpern was making one more walk through. he looked over and saw a envelope with a green seal on it. he noticed the date was an 1832 document. he removed a single nail from a panel in and upstairs attic room and discovered a trunk books, and portraits stuffed up under the eves and this was this treasure of dolly madison's things. but trying to include her life story from her birth to her death in 1849. some of the items that we currently have on display, a

carved ivory calling card case that has a card enclosed with dolly's signature as well as that of her niece, anna. some small cut glass perfume bottles and a pair of silk slippers that have tiny little ribbons that tie across the arch of her foot and the two dresses are the reproductions of a silk, peach silk, gown that she wore earliest in life and a red velvet gown. there is now a legend that accompanies this dress. >> watch all of our events from greensboro. >> with live coverage of the u.s. house on c-span and the

senate on c-span 2, here on c-span 3 we complement that coverage by showing you the most relevant hearings and public events. then on the weekend we have programs that tell our nation's story. visiting battlefields and key events, american artifacts and touring museums and sites. historic bookshelf with the best known american history writers. the presidency, looking at the policies and legacies of our nation's commander-in-chief. and our new series "real america." featuring films from the 1930s and 70s. watch us in hd like us on facebook, and follow us on twitter. >> you're watching a special presentation of american history

tv in primetime. c-span3 features 48 hours of american history tv every weekend beginning saturdays at 8:00 a.m. eastern. the korean war veterans digital memorial is an online archive of the memories and experiences of the soldiers who fought what is sometimes called the forgotten war. along with digital images of the photographs and artifacts donated by veterans, the archive includes a collection of oral history interviews that provide eyewitness accounts of the korean war. up next, a brief conversation from 2013 about the korean war veterans digital memorial with its president, jongwoo han. >> joining us on american history tv is jongwoo han, who is the founder and president of the korean war veterans digital memorial. thanks for being here. >> thank you for inviting me. this is great opportunity. thank you. >> what is the korean war veterans digital memorial?

>> as it says, it's a digital memorial. it's a combination of database that is composed of interviews and historical artifacts from the korean war veterans who fought from 1950 to '53 in the korean war. and so i do the interview of the korean war veterans about their memories and their sacrifices and also i collect the artifacts like photographs that they actually took during the war and the letters that they wrote back to their families and other artifacts like promotion posters, maps and private and public documents that related to their service. so it's a database of interviews and historical artifacts. >> well, take us back to the beginning. what inspired you, and how did you make the initial moves? what did you do first? >> i do actually teach about the impact of information technology like the internet or online social media on elections, politics and democracy.

and the syracuse university where i teach you know, we had a very historical project working with one north korean project supported by the american and korean governments. and we actually were able to help them establish the digital library for the first time in north korean history. and when i run the election series named after the korean ambassador who actually founded the korean embassy in 1948, i invited korean war veterans in syracuse and they brought their own pictures that they took. and i was thinking, how we can preserve this memory forever. you know, there is, you know, a shortage of the spaces in the physical museum. but if we put it into cyberspace, there is no limitations whatsoever for temporal and spatial limitation, no. so i began to propose, then, why don't we build a cyber shrines of the korean war veterans which will permanently be there and

can be accessible from anywhere, any time without much cost. >> this database, this website, has an incredible amount of oral histories, too. what led you to begin starting to take those histories of korean war veterans? >> because their memories have not been really respected, and it's not been well preserved. so as a person and a scholar who knows about this -- the strengths of the information technology, i wanted to preserve their memories forever because even though the korean war was very important because it was the signaling of the cold war, that actually shaped the every aspect of our lives, you know. that cold war divided the whole world into communism and free democracy and capitalism. and the korean war was the beginning of it. but not many people pay attention to it. and people said it's a forgotten war. and the korean war veterans, when they returned from the

korean war, they've been asked, where have you been? >> what's the typical, average age of a korean war veteran? >> 83. so it's time to act and collecting these interviews and artifacts. otherwise, we're going to lose everything. >> when you started this process, you'd ask a veteran, can i tell your story, will you tell your story, what was the typical reaction? >> oh, i began to work with chapter 105 syracuse korean war veterans association. they unanimously support my decision and idea to preserve this memory in the cyberspace. so i'm getting tremendous support from the korean war veterans and korean war veterans association. and i don't have any problem to arrange the interview. i'm just short of the budget and the people who can actually do the interview. they really want to tell about what they did for the country. >> how long do these interviews last, and where are you now? how many have you done so far? >> it all depends on the korean war veterans, but the average

length is about 30 to one hour sometimes, and i have about 180 interviews. and i have more than 6,000 artifacts stored in my database. >> in looking at the website the other day myself, it's not just the korean war veterans, but it's also some of the service members who served there in different decades including one in the '70s and one in the '80s. why are you interested in hearing from those folks as well? >> that's a very good question. first of all, the korean war started june 25th of 1950. but the u.s. government extended up till january 31st of 1955, even though the war ended on july 27th of 1953. so that's the korean war veterans era. but since then, the u.s. forces has committed, until now, there are more than 2 million u.s. forces that actually have served in korea and retired. so i want to include them as a successor of the korean war

veterans. and it's a u.s. commitment. and it's the extension of the korean war. >> so you're still continuing doing the interviews. >> yes. >> if folks watching this on american history tv want to reach out veterans and others who would like to tell their story, how do they reach you? >> just check the -- our website, my foundation's website, www.kwvdm, david and mary,.org. and you will see lots of interviews and so many different kinds of artifacts. and the emphasis is it's not the dramatic pictures like a macarthur, general macarthur with his pipe. no, it's not. but it's the picture and the scenes that regular american soldiers looked during the war. so it's their own eyes. and that's where my emphasis goes. >> well, that leads me to my next question. how do you think these

interviews that you've done have led us to a better understanding of the korean war? >> as i told you, it's been regarded as a forgotten war. but because there are very good things that came out of it, first of all, it's the republic of korea. they achieved, my own country, achieved a simultaneous development of economic development. never been presented. and we are one of the most substantive democracies in asia. so there a good thing came out of it. and there are, i think, more things to be coming out of it. that's why my foundation is hosting the korean war veterans legacy project, and it's inviting the descendants of the korean war veterans. and i urge them so that they can act on and continue to carry the torches of the korean war veterans' sacrifice and legacy. >> what are some of the things you've learned from the veterans you've interviewed? and secondarily, is there a story or two that really stands

out in your interviews? >> you know, most of them, when i do interview, i'm asking, have you known about korea before? that you were dispatched to korea? >> you mean did you know about the country? >> yes. >> yeah. >> and they didn't even know where it was located. now they are the arduous supporter of the republic of korea, and they are still looking for the reunification. so i think that is the backbone of this u.s./korea alliance that we are celebrating july 27th. the 60th anniversary of the korean war armistice and u.s./korea alliance. >> well, along that line, you said the average age was 60 -- 83. so 60 years ago, 1953, and the signing of the armistice, many of these men were in their early 20s. >> yes. >> do you find that they still, the men you interview, the veterans, still have an active interest in what's going on in

north korea and south korea? >> absolutely. as i told you, by the 1980s, kor korea accomplished simultaneous development of economic development and democracy. so they now see what they did. you know, korea, what it is now, it's all their sacrifices, and obviously korean people achieved it. but we couldn't do it without their sacrifice. so they support what we are doing, my foundation, and they agreed to me that this is the most effective and most economical way and permanent way to preserve their legacy. >> i think you mentioned funding a little bit in terms of doing the interviews. what are some of the challenges when you go to do these interviews? >> you may be surprised to hear this, but there are officially 2.1 million korean war veterans. >> in the united states. >> in the united states. even though they were not in the korean theater at the time. the federal government officially designated them as korean war veterans but there are many more korean war

veterans who actually fought there. and i cannot do it by myself. it requires a lot of financial assistance. so i want to see -- i want to see many who agree to this idea, coming as a missionary of this foundation, go to the local village and find korean war veterans and do an interview like what i'm doing, and then we can expand it. and also, i'm working with descendants of the korean war veterans in 20 participating countries in addition to the united states. and they may work with me to collecting more interviews and artifacts. >> what other countries have significant amounts of korean war veterans outside of south korea, obviously, and america? >> england, obviously, the second biggest participation, but also turkey, ethiopia, thailand, greece, colombia. these are the countries that actually send and they fought fiercely to defend freedom for the korean nation. so there are many countries. canada, new zealand, australia.

these are the countries that sent a lot of soldiers. >> who's the audience for these interviews, and how do you hope that they will best be used? >> let's just multiply ten to the korean war veteran family and friends. okay? i told that you there are 2 million people. so big community. and also there are many, many korean-americans here and also americans who are aware of the importance of the korean war. so these -- i think this is the biggest community that korean -- korean people can have in the united states. and they are very, very supportive and proud of what korea has produced. so this is a big community. >> we have a couple of minutes left. let's go back to the photographs that are on the website, part of the database and what you said was the start of this whole idea with seeing the photographs of veterans. how do you -- how do you judge what to put on the website? you said you don't want the dramatic theme ones, the military actions, but the everyday, everyday shots. >> there is no shortage of

photographs, for example. the important thing is the meta date, where and when and who. if korean war veterans come with that kind of pictures so that we can put the metadata, because it's a database which is searchable. so we need the metadata. and if photographs come with this information, we first choose those. >> what about other things on the website in terms of you've got photographs, you've got the oral history interviews. what else is on there? >> there are many writings about the korean war, right? and also we are trying to connect with the young generations because there is a tremendous lesson out of the korean war. so we are trying to connect with the young generation using online social media. so we're using facebook, twitter and instagram constantly introducing these pictures and artifacts to our younger generations. and one more important thing.

in american history textbook, there is only one paragraph covering about the korean war. so in this workshop that i invited the descendents of the korean war veterans i'm trying to educate them so that our textbook can cover more about the importance of the korean war. >> jongwoo han is the founder and president of the korean war veterans digital memorial. thanks for joining us here on american history tv. >> i sincerely appreciate this opportunity. thank you very much. >> up next, an interview with charles ross who served as an army sergeant during the korean war and was captured by the chinese. >> tell me about your family when you were growing up, your parents, your siblings. >> my mother and father separated when i was 4 years old. i really didn't get to know my mother. i was raised by my father.

he provided for a sister and myself. i graduated high school in 1946. there in south carolina. and shortly after i graduated, after a short attempt at public work, i drove a truck for a couple of months. and then i wanted some excitement and adventure in my life and wanted to kind of leave the area, so i enlisted in the u.s. army. >> do you remember the date you enlisted? >> february 13th, 1947. >> what was the name of the high school you graduated? >> dentsville high school. >> could you spell it? >> d-e-n-t-s-v-i-l-l-e. >> d-e-n-t-s-v-i-l-l-e high school. >> uh-huh.

>> where did you go to receive basic military training? >> i started my basic training at fort jackson, south carolina, for about two weeks, and then they moved us rather abruptly down to fort mcclelland, alabama. >> uh-huh. >> there was some political jockeying going on about closing the fort, fort mcclellan, and the senator from that state had enough political pull to move one company of trainees down there just in an effort to keep the fort open. >> so what kind of basic training did you receive? >> basic combat training. >> basic combat. >> just basic -- we just called it basic training. >> mm-hmm. >> it's just the rudimentary training for a conversion from civilian to a military army. >> how long was it? >> eight weeks. >> eight weeks.

were you paid any during the basic military training? did they pay? >> i didn't receive any pay while i was in basic training due to a loss of my records. the transfer from south carolina to alabama, and somehow they misplaced several of our records. it was a political thing, and they did it rapidly. >> uh-huh. >> and somehow our records became separated from us as individuals. we completed our basic training in may, and we were given -- i think it was a 21-day leave. they called it at that time delay en route because my first assignment out of basic training was a unit in germany. >> oh. >> post-world war ii germany. >> yeah. so did you go to germany? >> yes, i did. >> where were you in germany?

>> i was stationed at cocerne which was the army camp in fre i -- friedburg f-r-i-e-d f-r-i-e-d-b-u-r-g is the way it was spelled. and there i remained for the next three years. >> so you were there until 1951? >> '50. >> '50. >> yeah. i left the states in june of 1947 and came back in june of 1950. i came back to rank a sergeant.

>> how did you like german? i mean german -- i mean the station there. >> i liked it. i liked the people. i liked the assignment -- of course, when we got there in 1947, there was just two years after the end of the hostilities there, the war, and the larger towns like frankfurt was pretty well torn up. there was a lot of rubble in the streets. buildings were bombed out. and the town itself was -- the infrastructure, the streets, the sidewalks and everything was in terrible condition. it seemed that the railways were spared for some reason. so the rail, transportation method, was fully functional when we were there. >> yeah. >> but the three years i was there, there was huge improvements. lots of rebuilding, cleaning up. i got along very well with the german people. i got to meet several of them, learned some words in their language. >> do you speak german? >> no, i don't speak german. if you're familiar with the term g.i. german, then you understand what i'm talking about. >> what is that? >> we just learned words, what they meant. >> g.i. german, i see. now i got it. >> that's what we called it. >> how much were you paid at the time? in germany?

>> i started off at $78 a month. i was a private when i arrived. >> and? >> and when i left there in 1950, i was a sergeant. i was making somewhere around $140 a month. >> and then do you remember the date that you returned to the united states from germany? >> no, i don't remember the exact date, but it was in mid-june. >> before the korean war break out? >> yeah, i was on leave when the korean war began. i didn't know what korea meant. a lady asked me when i was on leave from germany. i was given a 20-day leave. my new assignment was to --

massachusetts with an infantry division. sunday afternoon in late june, a lady i had known since i was a child -- so i was at home at the time on leave. she asked me if i was going to korea. and i thought she was asking me if i was going to make the army a career. i was confused on the words. i wasn't too good at geography anyway when i was going to school. i never really studied it but the words korea and career sounded a lot alike to me. she said i said yes. she said oh, you want to? i said yes, i do. i was thinking i was going to make the army a career, and she was thinking i was telling her i wanted to go to korea. of course, about two days later, i saw the headlines in the paper about the war.

and the attack on the south part of the country. then i didn't know what korea was. i didn't even know it was a country. and then we found out it was separated into two parts. north and south korea at the end of world war ii. and i began to do a little studying right quick to find out where this place is because being in the army and having three years of infantry training i figured i might just wind up there but i went on to my assignment in port devons, massachusetts. and i was there just a short time. and being the new guy -- and this always happens in the army. i stayed in the army for years, but being the new coming into the unit, the unproven guy, generally gets the details that other people don't want.

and if they call for people, you know, send me so many privates or so many sergeants or whatever, the newer ones are going to be the one to go. i understood that. and being a new person when they called to build a new battalion, general mcarthur called for more troops quickly because the north korean army was advancing southward rapidly. and they didn't have enough forces. the army began to build quickly these provisional battalions. and i was fortunate enough to be a member of the 1st divisional -- provisional battalion. it was formed in massachusetts in july. in 1950. and having just arrived there from germany and having infantry training they wanted infantry

people, so i was one of the quote, lucky ones, because i was one of the first ones moved to this provisional battalion. ," 1st provisional battalion. and within, i'd say seven to ten day ss, we were flushed out completely. we had an orientation and that was the gist of the talk that we got. world war ii veteran. and he taught a whole unit together as a battalion and told

us that we were preparing to move to korea. >> when was that? >> that was july. >> 1950? early or end? >> it was mid to late july. i don't remember the exact dates. we started health checks and we had people assigned to our unit some of them had just completed basic training. they had no infantry training. we had people from military police units, ordnance units. we had motor mechanics, cooks assigned to us as an infantry unit. they issued a rifle and told

them "you're going to war." so we were not prepared. >> what were you thinking? that you heard that you're going to go to korea? >> wow! what's going on here? >> you're already a professional advanced soldiers than others. >> oh yeah. >> and you were a sergeant, and you knew that in the war, you might be killed. >> oh absolutely. >> you were not scared? >> i was concerned. i wouldn't say scared. now, i had -- i always kept in the back of my mind i enlisted in the army for adventure. i want to do something. i want to go somewhere. i want to see things. if i'd say i wasn't trained, yes, i was frightful of being killed. but at that time my father had already died. he died while i was in germany. my mother which i was not raised by, she had died while i

was in germany. i had one sister that was -- i was still in contact with. and i had a stepmother that my father had died -- i mean had married, i'm sorry had married her just before his death. and that's the only family i had. so i had no one, really to account or you know to hold myself to as a family. so i was not concerned about others. i was kind of a loner. one of the sad parts of my military career for a long time was i didn't have a home address. my home address was u.s. army. wherever i was at. that's where -- that was all i had to worry about was me. having enlisted in the service, i was not bitter when bad things happened. i just accepted them. here i am.

and for some weird reason, i liked it. it fed some inner feeling that i had that i wanted to do these things. i didn't do anything heroic but i think i did my job. and they assigned me as a squad leader, and we had all of these people that was assigned to us untrained. and the battalion commander was harold johnson who later became chief of staff of the army, four-star general. he organized the battalion in massachusetts, and we traveled to korea with our commander and our first couple of months there in south korea, during the attempt to hold mk back, he was our commander. but they saw his talents and they moved him to a regiment.

he controlled the 5th cavalry regiment. >> but weren't you concerned that these people hardly put together to be sent to korea without proper military training, weren't you concerned that they might be -- >> oh, yes, very much so. i was more concerned for my men than i was myself. >> mm-hmm. >> it's difficult to try to train people when you're under the pressure of combat. and their safety was my concern. a squad is the smallest organized military unit in the infantry. and i was a small unit leader. i was 1st class. they promoted me on the ship on the way over there to the rank commensurate with the job that i was holding.

and i was tremendously concerned about them. >> yeah. >> and i was trying to be a father. i was 21 years old, but i was trying to be their father because several of them were like, 18, 19 years old. >> when did you leave for korea? >> we left in late july. it took us 14 days on a ship to get over there. we went across on the "usns john pope." that was the name of the ship. >> "usns john pope." >> the united states naval ship. and our first orientation, they told us we were going to stop in japan for a couple weeks of training. to try to build some unit cohesion. but we were out about a week on the water, and then we got the word that we were going directly to the port of poisson.

so we did not stop in japan. we stayed right on into poisson. and arriving then it was in early august. i couldn't give you an exact date. it was -- i want to say maybe the second week of august, we arrived. and we did some there at the port, and we stayed off the ship for -- we had to go back on ship and eat. they still had the mess hall in there. and we were there for the better part of a day. but they took away all the equipment that we brought with us except for what we needed, rifle. we took gas masks with us. they took those away. they called it making us combat light, ready to go. and late that afternoon some

trucks pulled up. dump trucks. and they noticed they had the 1st calgary division patch on the hoods. that's the first indication that we were going to be part of the 1st cavalry. of course, we were the first provision on the battalion. we had no unit designation when we got there. we found out that afternoon that sure enough we were going to be assigned as the 3rd battalion of the 8th cavalry regiment. >> 3rd battalion and what? >> 3rd battalion of the 8th cavalry regiment. >> 8th cavalry -- >> regiment. >> -- regiment. >> that's part of the 1st cavalry division. and consequently since i was in company "c" of the 1st divisional battalion, we became company "l" because of the alphabetical way that they aligned the units for what they

call lettered companies. "c" became "l" when we were assigned to the battalion. we were transported to a rail station, put on trains along with korean civilians. i mean there were women children, men, boys. they just piled us in it. and here we are fully armed and ready to go. i say armed. we had no ammunition. we had weapons. and we went to a town. they called it tegu. i think i'm saying it right, tegu. we arrived there maybe an hour hour and a half train ride. and then some trucks picked us up again and then we went into just an orchard of some kind. apple trees, fruit trees of some kind. it was an orchard. this was in august. they didn't have any fruit on them, but they pulled us out there. and we were set up. we put up tents.

we were ready to stay. and the following morning -- well, i'm sorry. that afternoon, they issued us ammunition. they brought out the .30-caliber ammunition and told everybody not to load your weapons. this was a safety device. but people -- soldiers don't always listen and some man loaded his weapon and stumbled and fell and a round went off, and it went through a tire of one of the trucks sitting there. and the battalion commander became excited and had all of our ammunition taken away from us. the following morning we got on trucks and they took us north, i don't know, three, four, five miles. and we went on watch a marine unit attack a hill. and there was nk on the hill. and we were just going to sit up on this nob and watch this. and we could see them.

they came out and they looked like little animals working their way up. we could see them moving back and forth. and in the meantime, they had an hour or more preparing for a fire on the hill. artillery, air power. and we thought no one could live on the hill with all that going on. and we get maybe a third, maybe a half the way up this hill and then they came out of bunkers and holes and drove the marines right back off the hill. and we're sitting there with no ammunition. and we could see these people going around us, getting around us. so someone finally told us, get on the trucks and get out of here! so we got on the trucks and we were lying down as best we could in the trucks. and the trucks were flying.

and we could hear small arms fire, but we didn't know where it was coming from. and my particular truck the truck i was on was stopped by a lieutenant, army lieutenant. the truck stopped and he had us all get off and get in the ditch. and we got in the ditch and he asked us give me all of your ammunition, and you can get on the trucks and get out of here. and we said, we don't have any. and we did. we went back to our units. they stayed all night in this area. the next morning we went across into -- across the road and then to a field and some hills and we were at the base of the hills, and we're beginning to receive fire. of course, now we believe we're being fired on. all i can remember is his last name was johnson.

and we were quickly given ammunition. and it never was taken from us again. but what we went through night after night after night, being fired upon and seemed like just around dawn every morning, or daylight, you'd come up the hill to the screaming and the yelling and it would ska thecare the pants off of you. it was dark, and we'd still shoot back at them. we could see flashes. but that was our bad decision. i'm going to say the next two to three weeks always seem to deal with retreat. fall back, fall back. go back to the next hill. and the next day we had hear them fighting in front of and around us and we'd get the order to move and we got up again. we just kept going back, back, back. we got into september.

general is going to try to attempt the landing and then some. >> did you hear about that? from people? >> oh, yeah. we were told -- our commanders told us that this was in the works. they had planned this invasion. and so that should relieve some of the pressure on us. and i was being -- i was just a squad leader, so i was not really given all the big picture. i just didn't know it was happening in our unit and what we were being told to do what our mission was. and i remember when we got the orders, this is it. you stay here. you defend or you die. but we're not going to make any more. and that was one of the most scary moments i think i had in is being south korea. but then on the 15th of september, the invasion took place, and within, i'm going to

say, 24 to 48 hours, the korean army seemed to just fade away. >> how many hours the international? >> i would say 24 to 36 hours. we're not seeing any fire. everybody got quiet. and shortly after that, we begin to move north by truck. we're going up to the roads now, and just about as fast as we could go. we saw korean soldiers surrendering by units. you know 20 30 people at a time just holding their hands up like this. they needed someone there to take charge of them and take them back and process them. we'd travel day after day after day. i don't know how many days it

took. i remember we went through seoul. we went on until we reached the parallel. we didn't receive any resistance at all. we just rode trucks. we'd get off at night the next morning, they're just traveling. and then we stopped. we didn't know why but we were told later that we had to wait until the united nations approved the crossing of a parallel, political fight, which was, again a couple days after we arrived. and the first time we -- i may not be pronouncing this the way you would, but cason. and we continued to move northward and about the third day we were in north korea.

trucks didn't show up and we began to move by foot up the road. and late afternoon we received some incoming small arms fire, automatic fire. and we stopped and deployed off each side of the ready. it was a tank. it had been camouflaged and sitting beside the road. he was using his machine gun to pins you down. and we were pinned down. but they brought in some air power and quickly took them out. then we got back on our trucks again, and we didn't stop. sometime late in the night we'd stop and eat and get resupplied, get on our trucks and go again. and we went on, and in early october, we arrived in the north korean capital, pyongyang. >> pyongyang, uh-huh.

>> we were not the first unit there, but i think we were the second unit. the republican of korean army. >> yeah. >> and we'd come in behind them. and we stayed there for just about the whole month. we had a formation. we stayed in a hospital building. had rooms in there. we had one in danger of himself. he had taken a russian made pistol off of a north korean officer that had been killed. and in an attempt to get it out, he fired. that was only the casualty we had during we were there. but they showed our combat

infantry badge because we had been in almost 30 days. we had a few jobs, we went out and did some house searches. and we didn't have any weapons or anything. that's about all we did for the next two weeks or so. then on the 30th of october, we had been told the war is all but over, and we were going to do it on armistice day parade for general macarthur in tokyo, japan, on the 11th of november. and we were planning on that. but on the 1st of october just after lunch, they had a formation out front and told us to pick up all your gear. we call it saddling up. saddle up get ready to go.

we're going to move north. had unit that was having trouble had run into in resistance. so we're going to go up there and knock it out for them right quick. we traveled all night by truck. not all night but all afternoon. we stopped that night to slip alongside. we went on somewhere somewhere in the afternoon we arrived on an aerial. we later found out. we got out and set up a defensive perimeter. we were signed on as the reserve battalion. i was in the 1st platoon, "l" company, and they set us up on a bridge which was to the southwest of the battalion area. we were watching racing and not allowing this thing to slip upon us.

and we were out there sort of enjoying ourselves. nothing going on. airplane would fly over once in a while but there's smoke in the air. like the forest was on fire. and we didn't give it much concern because we had seen fire the whole time we had been in korea burning up the hillsides. and along about 10:00 that night, we'll call it 2200 hours got a call, found out that our platoon told us to pack up and come into withdrawal at 2400 hours, which was midnight. and incident and i was just waiting until a new unit got

assigned to us. when we got to a bridge along the road, and he said let's have them sit on the side of the road. november 1st, 1950. and i had everybody sit down on each side of the road. and a man that i knew very well who was not in my squad but my platoon. his name is luther wise, and he fought in world war ii. a little older than i was. and he came up and he started to light a cigarette. just as he started to light the cigarette, everything broke out. they had infiltrated our area.

it was coming off the same hill we just came from. get under the bridge. that's all i could think to say. and from then on, organization was lost. confusion reigned supreme. no one knew what the other man was doing. i didn't know. i still didn't want to get under the bridge, but some of them went the other way. it's my time. you hear firing going up we had no leadership and we became all disorganized. and people just went every direction. and it was a terrible night, but i saw several wounded.

we'd just sit there and they set all of our vehicles on fire. am decision was catching fire and semifireworks going off out there in the trucks area. >> was it leah ton? >> leah ton, yes. >> but this happened on the night of november the 1st. that's when they first hit us. and the following morning. it ceased early in the morning. by the time daylight came i couldn't see. we just fired at anything.

and the chinese that we were fighting we didn't know they were going to break it. and they had all these caps. so that was my means of identifying who was. so i saw one with a cap on. and the following morning when i looked around i didn't see anybody moving or anything. and i raised up, take a look thinking i may be the only survivor. when i sunk back down real quick, and i heard someone yell in another language, "are you g.i."? i pulled it back down real quick

and then i yelled as loud as i could, "i'm a g.i."! then another voice said stow load, then come on across the road. which i did. and i've said many times this has haunted me. shoot. it still bothers me. i saw more dead people than i ever have before, had before or have since. on that road.

>> i'd hate to venture a number but there were many. both sides. >> both sides. >> there had been a light machine gun set up just in front of me in this side of the ditch. and the people either didn't know or they were trying to rush them. i saw bodies lying crosswards. because i saw bodies lying crossways. with american uniforms and

chinese uniforms. and i can't get over that. but i have had many, many troublesome nights when i think about that. this happened when i was 21. and now i'm 85.

i was leaving to get across the road and i was told to get into this hole. are you familiar with the term "katussa? >> yeah. >> well there was a katussa there. and they had been assigned to our unit maybe three weeks. i didn't recognize the individual. before i got in the whole wing had been wounded. there was a canteen which was empty, a pair of binoculars laying on the ground.

i don't know what happened to the person that had them. i assume he must have been an officer because we all had bibles and this man i'm talking about, he had an mr rifle with him. and the poor gal was holding his stomach, i knew he was wounded. couldn't understand him at all. had no idea what he's trying to tell me. and he was saying something to me which sounded like he was saying mule. >> mule? >> mule. it sounded like he was saying mule. and i have no idea why he would be saying that to me. and he looked so painful. i said buddy, i'd love to help you, but i don't know what to do. i later learned after i was captured someone told me that

the word mu was water. it means running water. had i had known this, i could get it. but i didn't know what it meant. i had no idea what he wanted. and he succumbed to his wound while i was there. i just saw him fall over and there was no more movement. i stayed there for half hour or so and i was told come on over and they were going to appoint a perimeter out there in this field. which i did. we tried to gather in all the wounded. i helped in digging people into these holes to try to defend their selves. we didn't see our enemy. we didn't know who our enemy was until after thoughts. the sergeant i mentioned before, named luther wise, a little more experienced than the rest of us. he had been in world war two. 2. he had fought in italy.

he was the one that told us don't fire. we could see them moving toward us. we see these figures coming toward us. in large numbers. he said don't fire until i fire. so we said don't fire until you hear firing on your right. he was on the right at the end of our south side, southwest side. so we waited until he fired. and then he got about 40, 50 yards from us. everyone asks did you kill anyone. i don't know. all i know is i fired at figures.

that night, we had some more formal assaults when they came out. we, again, fired on them. and then the third day, we were just -- we were out of food. we were out of water. it was very cold and we went out and had our summer uniforms on. we were told that the fifth cad was coming to our rescue. they'll come get us out of there. and the way we were communicating was through five tanks that we had attached to our battalion. they were there in the perimeter. and aircraft they had radio combat with them so they could tell. and they told us about the fifth cad tunnel. so we had some hope. but then, late on the afternoon,

like the third day -- >> which is november 4th? >> this is going to be on the third -- the best i can think, first, second and third. >> november 3rd. i had heard nay had run into stiff resis tense and was unable to breakthrough the roadblock. and then about 30 45 minutes later, we got the word that the decision had been made that the third battalion would be left to its own devices. but the order had been given that you are now on your own. and i heard the word god's paid, which, to me, meant you're

either going to get out or you're -- you're not going to get out. that's what it meant to me. and somehow, i did not get frightened. i just said i'm going to do my job as long as i can. the next day, we heard a strange explosion. it wasn't a crack of a high explosive, but just a thump sound. and then i heard people screaming. there's three of us in this hole. and i looked back and there was smoke and white froth was following i like an umbrella. i thought oh, lord. i heard of this chemical. i heard people screaming and i figured someone was hit. and then i heard a sound that i

didn't know what it was. there was white smoke everywhere. i fired into the smoke and i didn't see a single person get hit. so that's how we made our exodus. about 150 of us made it out of there, out of that perimeter by the gunfire. and then we wondered around through the fields. and on the morning of what i think is the sixth but i'm not sure of these dates but we were struck again this unit that i'm talking about, this 150 men, they were from all the companies of the battalion. just the survivors. the one that was able to walk. the wounded had stayed back at

the battlefield where we had been. a chaplain named emil capone, he stayed there but he was wounded. we tried to make an attempt to escape. we wondered through the fields. we didn't know where we were going, we were starting to go south. on the morning of the sixth, i believe it was the sixth, we were again struck by unknown forces. myself and one man from raleigh north carolina was in my squad, incidentally, people just skaterred like flies. i mean they went every direction when they started firing on the front. and him and i went and got on the rock ledge and we laid there in the dark and then we got up again to look for water. and we wandered around out there

for about four days, drinking from whatever source we could find. we stopped at these abandoned houses. and then they were wandering around. he and i stopped in an abandoned house and stayed there all night. we were going to stay there a second night, but an old korean man came to us we coulden understand him, but he motioned for us to come with him. he had been gone ten minutes or more, and he came back and had some hot broth or soup or something. he gave us that and gave us a bottle of water and took us over

this hill to a field and took us into a dugout. now, how he found this, i'm not sure. but i know it was straw-lined inside. and we stayed in there that night. he indicated to us what he thought was trying to tell us is stay there and he would come back and give us some more items. why he was doing this, i don't know to this day. but if i knew, he was a lot older than i was, so he's probably no longer alive. but if i knew his family, and could someway even though it's in north korea, i would try to repay him. but the man i was with became claustrophobic and he couldn't stay in the hole anymore. so we came out. outside and we used the river

and used it as a guide to keep to the left so we were going south. as we were on our knees, we were spotted by some chinese soldiers and they blew a whistle. and we laid there in the glass. about 20 of them walked in front of us. one man walked to our rear and we were laying on a hillside. he yelled to the others and that's when they came on back to us. best of my knowledge, or the best i can calculate, that was the tenth day of november they took both of us prisoner. that's the best i can calculate. that would have been the tenth of november, late in the afternoon. we were taken right back in this house two nights before. and they had set up on the maps and stuff.

we were kept there that night. and the following day, the third day of captivity, we marched up the road just near dark and we were joined up there with 7 more americans. we arrived in a place that we called the valley. we just called it the valley because they jumped in this valley and they were commandeering houses. we stayed there for i'd say three weeks or more.

we were not allowed to go outside during the day light. at night, we'd go scurry waterer from this creek to cook the grains and whatever other food they had given us. and then, one day in early january, they lined us up on the road and we marched off the river and run over the ice and walk ed walked under. about a plont after we were there, all the ngos, sergeants, that were there started our daily lectures. we went flu that until august of '52. august, 1952.

we were split in two different companies. that's where i remained until august when an armistice had been signed. we were sent back to the company to wait and we waited until -- i was 20 and that was the day they had trucks lined up out there. and they announced that morning everyone that wants to be repay traited, get everything you own and come back outside. i think about four of us stayed there and all of us went out. we rode pretty much all day and then there was a big rainstorm and we had to sit there for a couple of hours.

then we went down to a rail head and got on the train. we were near pyung yang. we rode pretty much all night and then the next day. and then we arrived northeasterly the city. i remained there until the night of august 31st. that's when my name was called. we were welcomed back and i was told at that time that i was now master sergeant.

i had been promoted one day while ifgs up there. we went down there by ambulance to inchon. that's where we were briefed with the names of people who were missing and asked if you knew them and if you did, what circumstance did you knew they had died. but in most cases, although we had hundreds and hundreds of dead, i didn't know their names. i was never bitter. i'm still not today. i'm sad.

but i enlisted. i asked for it. i would love to go back to that area to see it. about six months ago, i received a book that was published by the government of south korea called "korean reform which i appreciated it. i showed it to my son. and i have had the opportunity several times now, to talk about this. this experiment i had. for 54 years, i'd just answer yes. but in 2007, a lady asked me about an uncle that was in my company and i began to dredge up all of these old memories and

tried to remember everything that i could. my children asked if i would put that in writing. i did. i just entitled it memoir and, by my name charles r. ross. i had several people ask me vfw clubs, a church, city of gaet city where i live, the lion's club, a school.

we had went to the va and that's the way i approached it. i had mentioned that i had eventually been captured by the chinese. i realized that there was a lot of mistreatment i'll say i was mall treated but i was never mistreated. i was never beaten. had i not got captured, i was sure to perish in those mountains. i had no means of support, no water, no food. the water we got was just out of rivers, creeks, springs, anywhere we could find water we'd drink. we were running out of house houses to swipe these vegetables and things. and many houses we went, they were bare.

there was nothing we were evading the enemy. it was a painful thing. it lasted for 34 months. what was the most difficult thing? what was the most bothering? >> during the prison camp? >> yeah. >> oh. the first six months, we had just arrived there.

people were dying daily. the worst part was we didn't know their names, many of them. that had to be the most painful part. the most difficult time i guess, for me, was the lack of food. we were so hungry all of the time. >> what made you survive? >> i just waned to -- i tried to talk to these people. they'd give up. they'd say i don't want to live like this. >> there was some people who refused to eat? >> sure. >> why?

>> they would say i don't want to live like this. i can't live like this. we called it giving up. they just gave up and quit trying. >> what is korea to you now? after all of those years of horrible memory what is korea to you now? >> south korea? a beautiful place. very progrezive. very productive. just look at the automobiles that they're putting out. many, many things now manufactured in korea. i thought i'd never see such an impoverished place. horrible the way these people have to live. and when i went back, 1964, '65,

there had been many improvements. and then over the years, i was just there for 1965 and we came tim po. i thought very modern, nice people.

traditional. female president, now, which is i think, progress. i have a very favorable opinion. i would guess faster than japan did. >> would you be willing to revisit korea? >> i'm having some difficulty right now, especially with my feet. the chinese did walk us through a river.

i "don't ask, don't tell" take my boots off, some did. my feet were numb for two days. now, that's where i have all the feeling rngs in my feet. so i can't walk real far at a time. i don't know -- i don't -- i would love to make the trip. my second tour, we were up near the dmz. we were on the dmz. >> wow again? you were in dmz? >> it was near where we were at. i was with the seventh gallery. and the nearest village was right outside the gate. that was our lags tour and i spent 13 months in that area.

again, when we left, i left there in 1965. we wernt to term airfield and that's where we left from. but i've got a very favorable opinion of south korea. and that's about my story for the time i spent in korea. we did have some difficulty when i first arrived. we were in the country about 24 hours before we got shot at.

our commander described us as an untrained unit. we had people from all types of moss. i'll say one thing for them, when we arrived and fired on them, they were brave. i didn't e didn't see a single man run. several of the remains have been found in that area. i read about it a lot of times. every time i see the term remains from north korea, my ears perk up. one man was from bowling green, kentucky. his last name was mcmanus. i can't be sure of the last name, but i called the

television station when they announced it. they listed his name as next of kin. all i wanted to do is say hey, i was there. but i was not given that opportunity. >> why do you think it happened to you? do you have any idea? >> i have no idea. i was a individual alone in the world. i was not married. my mother and father were dead. i had a sister. i had no idea where she was. i was not in contact with her

although we had maintain eded letters through the mail. i had wrote her and got an answer. i found out. and i accepted my fate. and i said to this day, there was some sadness of that story.

my half brother who lived in florida contacted me. he's on a web site called the korean war project. it said i had been captured and my rank and serial number was there. i said yeah, that's me. when i was found, i was asked do you know these people. i saw a named ed potter. and i responded. yes, i know an ed potter. and as strange as it may seem, this was the ed they were looking for. so i corresponded with his nephew for over a year and told him the story that i told you today. his uncle is the man we had been talking about. and he had started to write a book about his experiments.

and he asked me to help him confirm and sent the entire package of notes to me. as i began to read the notes, there were several things that i had not witnessed. and i e-mailed him back and said i read the noets and there are things in here that i cannot confirm because i did not witness that. one of the examples why he had been placed in a hole in the ground and hands tied behind him, i did not see that. he was not with me when this happened.

i did not see that. so he quit writing me. she's the one who got me talking about my experience. she asked me to give her my perspective on what happened there during the battle. she was this guy's squad leader. she wrote please tell me the story. so i agreed, i told her it was painful. i had a lot of sleepless nights trying to dredge up these memories.

but i'm going to try to tell what happened. >> i started off that i had just returned to the united states for a three-year two tours of duty. i mooifed to mae ma and got my orders to go to korea.

we quickly left. we were told that they were north koreaens that they had captured. four men had beaten up two men in this building. he got back on the ship, ate dinner and then come out and got in the truck and was taken to the rail station. i told them it was written primarily using military terminology. i was given several suggestions how to make it more understandable to a civilian to

understand it. i explained after the first yugs of every word what it was. i had some of her friends that read it and they said this was terrible. >> i said i defie anyone to they will me i was wrong.

i was there. i did not exaggerate. i did not enhance the story in anyway. i've heard a lot of stories but everybody tells it differently. there are many stories about the korean war, but this one is mine. this is what i speerpsed. many men starved to death, wounds untreated.

that's maltreatment. sanitation supplies. we had no paper for sanitary purposes. that was it. and that's cruel. then, when they started the lecturing, we were given tobacco or newspapers. so when they began to doctrine

nate, did they treat you better? >> much. there was great improvement. we had on the same clothing in '51 that i had on in november of '50. when i took my socks off, they come apart. one of the worst things that happened was body lice. we'd sit around in the daytime and kweez the little kriters. and we'd be bloody all over from these things. i remember a guy saying i'm

getting another transfusion and he'd be scratching those. in march r april, we'd lay though out in the sun and try to delouse ourselves. i was offered my uniform when i came through in 1953. one of the gis left me and i said i don't ever want to see it again.

>> you're okay with it. don't look back. >> i was so tired. tlt have been interesting now to see one. >> they had p.o.w. links, is what i think they called them.

it had a picture of it in there. most of the people in this reel union that i talked to last night, they're all lower rank. people i talked to last night, one of the guys told me they were taken out of the camp that morning and got back that afternoon. i said i didn't know that. we just went up the river and we had gone and it took us most of the day.

>> you have an amazing memory. for 54 years, you're trying to wipe it out, i would add detail after detail. it's exactly as i can remember. there's some funny things that happened there. we made our own entertainment. we tried to strike one time.

they were lecturing us every day, at least twice a day. we would discuss what we had been told. i was monitored for six months. we had to take notes what everybody's opinion was. if somebody didn't have the right attitude or something, they'd call them out. they made us learn a song in chinese.

we had no idea what we were singing. so the beat was all marching and timing. one of the, they call them progressive and we call them rats. they would join in with the chinese chinese and inform if anyone would say anything.

one of them had been educated at the university of berkley. he had told this man that it was death to the americans. and we're singing this? they would just laugh. we had no idea what was said.

he had a different uniform. he got up and spoke in chinese. he said you're now a prisoner of war. but if you refuse to obey the orders, you lose your standing as a prisoner of war and you'll become our enemy and we'll go to war with you and we've got a lot of weapons. that was just one thing that i could remember.

somebody broke out singing god bless america. there was never such a feeling in all my life. we just decided, i did if they kill me, i'm going to sing. so they didn't interfere. they just stood there and let us finish the song and we went on as if nothing ever happened. well, we sang through that song.

that was a straeng site. they came around with a form and said if you sign this form we will serve you with a sumptuous meteor. everybody siebed it. they called it a sumptuous meal.

but it was a lot better than what we had. after may of 51, guards were all up around us. they didn't bother us at all. they had issued us cotton underwear: i had gone two steps

and said put my drawers back. somebody yelled thief, thief, stealing underwear. and everybody started calling me a thief. so they got huddled to it. it was just for fun. you might have heard me mention sergeant potter. he was acting as my attorney. it was just a fun thing to do on a sunday afternoon. they put us all together.

the guy is very ingenius. >> element like a play. >> yeah, it was all for fun. they just took him through. they had the trial lawyer. and i any the first question was do you think this man is capable of stealing? they said he'd steal anything he

could get his hands on. but it was all in fun. everybody was just laughing about it. some of the guards began to yell and holler from up in the post. they thought we were ploting something.

people laughing at him and the chinese instructors had turned out to not be allowed to cut that off. the chinese had some long clippers. and they said cut everything off. when they made him cut that off, he'd wear that cap and hit his head and said everybody just cracked up laughing. that was his way of beating them at their own game. i was in my early 20s. that was the time of my life.

we were missing out on a lot, but at the same time, we were learning a lot. >> anything you want to add more to this interview? >> i told my story. i was just telling some of the funny things that happened.

screeria -- nigeria. -

your parents and your siblings. >> we were obviously counsel thrill folk. >> okay. >> they were farmers. my dad was. >> um-hmm. were farmers. my dad was. he also spent 45 years in the coal mines. he was a coal miner as well as a

farmer. i have nine or had nine brothers and sisters. >> nine brothers. you are? >> i'm number four. >> wow. >> two of the oldest boys have passed on. my mom abdomen dad have passed on. they are scattered all over the stats of kentucky as ohio as well as texas. i've adopted that as my home. i really enjoy living there. it's a beautiful country. beautiful state. yng a lot of people there. all my interests are there. i stay there. >> tell me about the school you went to. was it in kentucky? >> the primary and secondary

school were in kentucky. i did get a high school diploma from kentucky. >> what school in. >> whit lee county high school. >> when did you graduate? >> i got my diploma in 1959. >> 1959. >> i left that school i guess 1948. >> '48. you joined the army? >> joined the army. went to japan in june of 1948. >> wow.

i joined the first cavalry division. >> you're the first cavalry? >> yeah. that's a little west of yokahama. stayed there for about a year. when the 7th infantry moved out of korea in 1949 i joined the 7th infantry division. i think they had been in korea for an extended period of time. >> you joined the 7th? >> yes. >> what was your specialty? were you infantry? >> infantry. >> and just rifleman or heavy machine gun? >> rifle man. i was a squad leader and

part-time platoon sergeant. >> i see. >> that's about the extent of it. >> tell me about the first cavalry. this is kind of well known unit, right? >> yes. we had no mission as such in the first. we were primarily a show off division. we did lot of parade practice and stuff like that. >> i see. >> i've had five parades in downtown tokyo in the 48 early 49. it was a good outfit if you enjoy parades. we didn't have a lot of extra work as such. we spent a lot of time on the parade field and a lot of guard duty and stuff like that.

after i joined the 7th we had a field training. a lot of maneuvers. live firing squad practice platoon practice stuff like that. >> so when did you go to korea? i made the landing. >> you did? >> yes. >> on the 17th of september. >> yeah. >> 1950. >> yep. >> the marines went in on one beach and the 7th infantry went in on another beach. i don't remember if it's red or blue beach or what. we fought our way into seoul and i got wounded in seoul. >> oh.

>> got a head wound. head and ear, my left ear. thought i was going to plead to death. they were able to pull me out. i had a blood transfusion on that hospital shield that were docked outside of seoul. i had a blood transfusion there. they shipped me back to japan. i had additional blood infused into me. i stayed there for 35 40 days, something like that in that area. at the end of that part i boarded a japanese luxury liner.

that was in october. we made another landing at amhong. it was in late november. we were still in summer wear. the temperature was something like 46, 47 degrees below zero.

had a hand grenade from the chinese. then someone placed me in a ammunition carrier with a tank of sorts. a convoy on the back of the tank. they put any in there. i was passed out then. i don't know how long i stayed there. that's where the chinese found me. that's when they took me out of tank and i was almost frozen. i couldn't ambulate with any degree of satisfaction or efficiency. >> when was it? >> on the second day of

december, 1951. >> 1950. >> excuse me 1950. yes. they kept us. we were separated the three of us. for what reason i have no clue. i suppose since we were wounded we couldn't keep up with the march going north. right. we spent three or four days there. >> with the chinese? >> with the chinese? >> yeah. >> they didn't kill you. >> no. we got the same food they

consume consumed. we moved at night four or five or six miles into another community. spent two or three weeks in that area. no one cared or asked me. i don't know if they cared or not. we stayed there about two or three weeks. then we attempted go someplace. i'm not sure where. we walked for two or three days and came back to the same house. i never could figure that one out. we were kept separate from the main body of pows until the 15th of april, 1951.

we want back and jumped on them. i stayed there until august of '53. i don't remember the exact dates, 8th 9th 10th somewhere in there. >> did you know anything about korea before you go to korea? >> only hearsay. i had no first hand information at all. the people who came back from korea in 1950 with the 7th division division. soldiers talk a lot. some grumble and complain about this and that. i really didn't know a lot about

korea or the korean people for that matter. all i heard was complaining. >> about what? >> nothing in particular. the duty primarily. no one that i talked with of course they were privates and stuff like that. really didn't have a good handle on the situation and they, by nature doesn't have anything good to say about anything in korea. i had been in japan for 27 months when korea started. i went to we moved down to mt.

fuji in preparation for the move. i was ready to come back to the states. in fact, my first sergeant called me into his office. i don't remember. 1950, must have been early september. advised me that i was going home. handed me my orders or attempted to. then he took them back and tore them up. i was hurt by that. i wanted the go home. he told me that all the orders had been riscinded and we were going to korea. as far as duty was concerned they decided that i was fully recovered. >> okay. >> you are in a country you never knew before. there's nothing good at the time in korea.

you are captured. what were you thinking? >> i think primarily that's the opinion of all young soldiers. when they are faced with something that they have no knowledge of have no dlu clue what they're going to do or why they're going to do it. i'm sure i had the same opinion.clue what they're going to do or why they're going to do it. i'm sure i had the same opinion. why not turn me loose? why not send me home? such is not the case. i took my medicine and joined my unit. went with them north. >> how many meals did you have on the way? once a day or twice day?

>> it's kind of hard to say. we ate the same thing the chinese soldiers were eating. >> you were lucky? >> i was. there's no question about it. we had ground up peanuts. we would mix water with the concoction and drink it. that's the only sun stance webstance we had. >> you mean something chinese had? >> little sock type things. >> that's a grindsed core edgrinded core. >> yeah. we did not get rice or very little vegetables of any kind because it's the dead of winter.

they didn't have fresh vegetables. we were lucky to get anything. >> what was your outfit? was it your summer outfit or ready for winter? >> summer. we were dressed in fatigues with a pair of field trousers. no long johns. no underwear or anything like that and a field jacket. that does very little to hold out the bitter cold. we were nearly froze, frozen in the division. they had shipped stuff up there but it didn't get to us.

we were still with our field jackets and two pairs of trousers. they gave us a pair of padded pants and the padded jacket. >> how would you describe it? try. >> miserable at best. i mean being a southern boy to

begin and not used to real cold weather and then spent my time in japan of course it was cold in the winter time in japan but not like in siberia and along the reservoir, that area was in siberia as far as i'm concerned. it was just as cold there as inside area, i think. it was miserable. it was miserable at best. i any further did adapt to that lifestyle. just couldn't do it. it's just that simple. >> when you arrived how was your

wounds in your face? did it heal? >> pretty much. i got hit on the bridge of any noise with a piece of shrapnal. there was fragments from it. i got knocked out with that stuff. it had one small area on the bridge of my nose. >> so amazing. every kind of medicines injections. your face clearly healed without anything. >> really. >> amazing, isn't it? >> it really is. i got my first wound was going to do me in. i got shot through the ear.

had a bullet to go through my ear. it shot the name out of my helmet. i had shrapnel all up in this area. i got two or three small fragments. i got all of it out except one small piece. two years later it worked its way out. it was like a kitchen match head, if you know what i'm talking about. >> yeah. >> it final lyly worked out. as far as i know, that's the only thing that remained for any length of time. i had three or four pieces of shrapnel in my head. they managed to cut those out.

>> how was it? >> miserable at best. >> tell me the details. talk to young kids there and what you went through detail. >> actually, we didn't have enough firewood to keep us warm. as you know the korean homes are have a flu that goes under the floor that keeps the house warm. if you have enough wood to put in there and warm the place up. in the winter of -- 1950 '51, they didn't stockpile the wood.

they took what they needed when they left their homes. we had no wood to heat the place up with. we slept 10 to 12 to 15 people per room. that's cozy if you know what i'm saying. you get close. of course, lice warere bad. >> oh, yeah. >> everyone was lousy. we picked lice off each other as best as we could. you can't get rid of those thinks. we finally, those that were able would go into the fields or forest, if you will and gather

firewood and we were able to gather enough wood to heat the floors in the homes. i think that was the saving promise there. things did get better. the reservoir was frozen. we had to walk across the ice into the field side. after the chinese were able to get boats in there. it came later, early in the year next to march, april, may or somewhere like that. they were able to haul in boat loads of wood. we gathered most of our firewood

from force from the hills. food was a premium at that time. we were using millet, cracked corn. i'm not sure if it was maize or real fine grain. >> do they actual give you grains so you cook it? >> yes. >> you cooked it? >> yes. >> how? did you have tooltools appliances? >> we had large pots, large vats. we would build a fire under the pots and boil the water and had the grain of whatever we had.

it's very little substance in cracked corn. diarrhea was bad. >> how many times a day, twice? >> constantly. >> i mean the food, meal? >> twice. >> you ate twice a day? >> yeah. of course it was limited, a amount. they didn't have stuff and they couldn't cook it if they didn't have it. it was very, strictly rationed. we would get maybe a cup or cup and a half of cracked corn or millet or whatever we had. our systems weren't just adopted

to that type food. diarrhea was rampant. in late 52'51 before the winter set in we did get an increase in our rations. we got pork. >> really? >> yeah. >> are you sure? >> i'm positive. >> the meat. >> meat yeah. >> they gave you meat? >> yeah. >> oh. >> we had to pick the hair out of it. it wasn't thoroughly cleaned. >> i see. >> wasn't appetizing at all but if you're hungry, you'll eat.

we did start getting a little pork. i think they began to issue rice at that time. we didn't get rice for the first several months of year. we ate a will the of peanuts. ground up peanuts. the rations did improve and dissentary slowed down. we were getting used to that type food. i don't recall ever getting beef beef, but we did get pork, quite a lot of pork. bring in whole hogs that were

frozen. they had been cleaned outside. most of the hair had been removed and the innards had been removed. we just got pork as you see it there. >> how did you cook? >> we had pots that we cooked it in. >> boil? >> boiled. we did get a few potatoes. we did get some turnips. that was about the extent of it. >> very good. >> we thought it was excellent after having pure cracked corn and millet.

we survived. can't put a lot of emphasis on that. i'm here. >> what was the most difficult thing in the camp? what really bothers you and you craved for? >> heat in the winter. >> heat? >> yeah. of course, food. that was a constant thing. we just didn't have enough to fill our desires or needs really. when we had no fishing gear, we couldn't catch fish. had no hooks or lines or anything like that. a little ingenuity on the part of some of our troops. they were able to make musical instruments. one guy made a guitar.

had no guitar strings. we used wire from whatever. it didn't sound like a guitar but it was something to make noise, to make what they called music. things did improve in late '51, early '52 we we began to adapt, if you might say. we knew what we had to endure to survive. we did the best we could do. >> what made you get through it? what was it hope god, whatever? >> my faith in god.

>> were you christian at the time? >> not as such, no. i did attend church services regularly. >> when in. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.? in. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.in. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.n. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel. i did attend a lot of church when i was a child growing up. i had the basic knowledge of the supreme being. it did sound good to me at that time. i had a lot of faith in the supreming with. we had norman hale.

he was a spiritual leader. richard basset. they were both young., as young as me. they delivered a good service as well as they knew how. the good thing about it they still embrace, till this day what they taught back in those days. i'm now an ordained deacon of a church. i go regularly every time the doors open doors open, i go. my wife is an inspiration to me. she's a big influence. i know she's a big influence on me. i did get saved.

i did get baptized. as i said, i am an ordained deacon of the church, and i enjoy that. >> did you pray at the time in the camp? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> what did you pray? can you share? >> yes. for the ability to with stand the rough winter, the rough life we were living at that time. we always prayed for more food heat. we always prayed the lord would come to our rescue. and provide us or give us the abilities ability to provide for ourselves. i think that was a big thing. i really do believe that.

i try to live by that today. >> were you able to write a letter back to your family at the camp? >> yes. i think i had four or five letters that my mom did get from me. >> did get from you? >> yes. >> okay. you were allowed to write? >> yes. >> did they gave you the paper and pencil? >> yes. we would get paper in large sheets like this. >> that long? >> yeah. >> wow. >> we would, bend it or fold it and dampen the seam and would be able to take it straight and make sheet size.