ization was lost. confusion reigned supreme. no one knew what the other man was doing. i didn't know. i still didn't want to get under the bridge, but some of them went the other way. it's my time. you hear firing going up we had no leadership and we became all disorganized. and people just went every direction. and it was a terrible night, but i saw several wounded. we'd just sit there and they set all of our vehicles on fire. am decision was catching fire and semifireworks going off out there in the trucks area.

>> was it leah ton? >> leah ton, yes. >> but this happened on the night of november the 1st. that's when they first hit us. and the following morning. it ceased early in the morning. by the time daylight came i couldn't see. we just fired at anything. and the chinese that we were fighting we didn't know they were going to break it. and they had all these caps. so that was my means of

identifying who was. so i saw one with a cap on. and the following morning when i looked around i didn't see anybody moving or anything. and i raised up, take a look thinking i may be the only survivor. when i sunk back down real quick, and i heard someone yell in another language, "are you g.i."? i pulled it back down real quick and then i yelled as loud as i could, "i'm a g.i."! then another voice said stow load, then come on across the road. which i did. and i've said many times this

has haunted me. shoot. it still bothers me. i saw more dead people than i ever have before, had before or have since. on that road.

>> i'd hate to venture a number but there were many. both sides. >> both sides. >> there had been a light machine gun set up just in front of me in this side of the ditch. and the people either didn't know or they were trying to rush them. i saw bodies lying crosswards. because i saw bodies lying crossways. with american uniforms and chinese uniforms. and i can't get over that.

but i have had many, many troublesome nights when i think about that. this happened when i was 21. and now i'm 85.

i was leaving to get across the road and i was told to get into this hole. are you familiar with the term "katussa? >> yeah. >> well there was a katussa there. and they had been assigned to our unit maybe three weeks. i didn't recognize the individual. before i got in the whole wing had been wounded. there was a canteen which was empty, a pair of binoculars laying on the ground. i don't know what happened to the person that had them. i assume he must have been an officer because we all had bibles and this man i'm talking about, he had an mr rifle with him.

and the poor gal was holding his stomach, i knew he was wounded. couldn't understand him at all. had no idea what he's trying to tell me. and he was saying something to me which sounded like he was saying mule. >> mule? >> mule. it sounded like he was saying mule. and i have no idea why he would be saying that to me. and he looked so painful. i said buddy, i'd love to help you, but i don't know what to do. i later learned after i was captured someone told me that the word mu was water. it means running water. had i had known this, i could get it. but i didn't know what it meant. i had no idea what he wanted. and he succumbed to his wound while i was there.

i just saw him fall over and there was no more movement. i stayed there for half hour or so and i was told come on over and they were going to appoint a perimeter out there in this field. which i did. we tried to gather in all the wounded. i helped in digging people into these holes to try to defend their selves. we didn't see our enemy. we didn't know who our enemy was until after thoughts. the sergeant i mentioned before, named luther wise, a little more experienced than the rest of us. he had been in world war two. 2. he had fought in italy. he was the one that told us don't fire. we could see them moving toward us. we see these figures coming toward us. in large numbers. he said don't fire until i fire. so we said don't fire until you

hear firing on your right. he was on the right at the end of our south side, southwest side. so we waited until he fired. and then he got about 40, 50 yards from us. everyone asks did you kill anyone. i don't know. all i know is i fired at figures.

that night, we had some more formal assaults when they came out. we, again, fired on them. and then the third day, we were just -- we were out of food. we were out of water. it was very cold and we went out and had our summer uniforms on. we were told that the fifth cad was coming to our rescue. they'll come get us out of there. and the way we were communicating was through five tanks that we had attached to our battalion. they were there in the perimeter. and aircraft they had radio combat with them so they could tell. and they told us about the fifth cad tunnel. so we had some hope. but then, late on the afternoon, like the third day -- >> which is november 4th? >> this is going to be on the third -- the best i can think, first, second and third. >> november 3rd.

i had heard nay had run into stiff resis tense and was unable to breakthrough the roadblock. and then about 30 45 minutes later, we got the word that the decision had been made that the third battalion would be left to its own devices. but the order had been given that you are now on your own. and i heard the word god's paid, which, to me, meant you're either going to get out or you're -- you're not going to get out. that's what it meant to me. and somehow, i did not get frightened. i just said i'm going to do my job as long as i can.

the next day, we heard a strange explosion. it wasn't a crack of a high explosive, but just a thump sound. and then i heard people screaming. there's three of us in this hole. and i looked back and there was smoke and white froth was following i like an umbrella. i thought oh, lord. i heard of this chemical. i heard people screaming and i figured someone was hit. and then i heard a sound that i didn't know what it was.

there was white smoke everywhere. i fired into the smoke and i didn't see a single person get hit. so that's how we made our exodus. about 150 of us made it out of there, out of that perimeter by the gunfire. and then we wondered around through the fields. and on the morning of what i think is the sixth but i'm not sure of these dates but we were struck again this unit that i'm talking about, this 150 men, they were from all the companies of the battalion. just the survivors. the one that was able to walk. the wounded had stayed back at the battlefield where we had been. a chaplain named emil capone, he stayed there but he was wounded.

we tried to make an attempt to escape. we wondered through the fields. we didn't know where we were going, we were starting to go south. on the morning of the sixth, i believe it was the sixth, we were again struck by unknown forces. myself and one man from raleigh north carolina was in my squad, incidentally, people just skaterred like flies. i mean they went every direction when they started firing on the front. and him and i went and got on the rock ledge and we laid there in the dark and then we got up again to look for water. and we wandered around out there for about four days, drinking from whatever source we could find.

we stopped at these abandoned houses. and then they were wandering around. he and i stopped in an abandoned house and stayed there all night. we were going to stay there a second night, but an old korean man came to us we coulden understand him, but he motioned for us to come with him. he had been gone ten minutes or more, and he came back and had some hot broth or soup or something. he gave us that and gave us a bottle of water and took us over this hill to a field and took us into a dugout. now, how he found this, i'm not sure. but i know it was straw-lined inside. and we stayed in there that night. he indicated to us what he thought was trying to tell us is

stay there and he would come back and give us some more items. why he was doing this, i don't know to this day. but if i knew, he was a lot older than i was, so he's probably no longer alive. but if i knew his family, and could someway even though it's in north korea, i would try to repay him. but the man i was with became claustrophobic and he couldn't stay in the hole anymore. so we came out. outside and we used the river and used it as a guide to keep to the left so we were going south. as we were on our knees, we were spotted by some chinese soldiers and they blew a whistle. and we laid there in the glass. about 20 of them walked in front of us.

one man walked to our rear and we were laying on a hillside. he yelled to the others and that's when they came on back to us. best of my knowledge, or the best i can calculate, that was the tenth day of november they took both of us prisoner. that's the best i can calculate. that would have been the tenth of november, late in the afternoon. we were taken right back in this house two nights before. and they had set up on the maps and stuff. we were kept there that night. and the following day, the third day of captivity, we marched up the road just near dark and we were joined up there with 7 more americans.

we arrived in a place that we called the valley. we just called it the valley because they jumped in this valley and they were commandeering houses. we stayed there for i'd say three weeks or more. we were not allowed to go outside during the day light. at night, we'd go scurry waterer from this creek to cook the grains and whatever other food they had given us. and then, one day in early january, they lined us up on the

road and we marched off the river and run over the ice and walk ed walked under. about a plont after we were there, all the ngos, sergeants, that were there started our daily lectures. we went flu that until august of '52. august, 1952. we were split in two different companies. that's where i remained until

august when an armistice had been signed. we were sent back to the company to wait and we waited until -- i was 20 and that was the day they had trucks lined up out there. and they announced that morning everyone that wants to be repay traited, get everything you own and come back outside. i think about four of us stayed there and all of us went out. we rode pretty much all day and then there was a big rainstorm and we had to sit there for a couple of hours. then we went down to a rail head and got on the train. we were near pyung yang.

we rode pretty much all night and then the next day. and then we arrived northeasterly the city. i remained there until the night of august 31st. that's when my name was called. we were welcomed back and i was told at that time that i was now master sergeant. i had been promoted one day while ifgs up there. we went down there by ambulance to inchon.

that's where we were briefed with the names of people who were missing and asked if you knew them and if you did, what circumstance did you knew they had died. but in most cases, although we had hundreds and hundreds of dead, i didn't know their names. i was never bitter. i'm still not today. i'm sad. but i enlisted. i asked for it. i would love to go back to that area to see it.

about six months ago, i received a book that was published by the government of south korea called "korean reform which i appreciated it. i showed it to my son. and i have had the opportunity several times now, to talk about this. this experiment i had. for 54 years, i'd just answer yes. but in 2007, a lady asked me about an uncle that was in my company and i began to dredge up all of these old memories and tried to remember everything that i could. my children asked if i would put that in writing. i did. i just entitled it memoir and,

by my name charles r. ross. i had several people ask me vfw clubs, a church, city of gaet city where i live, the lion's club, a school.

we had went to the va and that's the way i approached it. i had mentioned that i had eventually been captured by the chinese. i realized that there was a lot of mistreatment i'll say i was mall treated but i was never mistreated. i was never beaten. had i not got captured, i was sure to perish in those mountains. i had no means of support, no water, no food. the water we got was just out of rivers, creeks, springs, anywhere we could find water we'd drink. we were running out of house houses to swipe these vegetables and things. and many houses we went, they were bare. there was nothing we were evading the enemy.

it was a painful thing. it lasted for 34 months. what was the most difficult thing? what was the most bothering? >> during the prison camp? >> yeah. >> oh. the first six months, we had just arrived there. people were dying daily. the worst part was we didn't know their names, many of them. that had to be the most painful

part. the most difficult time i guess, for me, was the lack of food. we were so hungry all of the time. >> what made you survive? >> i just waned to -- i tried to talk to these people. they'd give up. they'd say i don't want to live like this. >> there was some people who refused to eat? >> sure. >> why? >> they would say i don't want to live like this. i can't live like this. we called it giving up. they just gave up and quit trying. >> what is korea to you now? after all of those years of horrible memory what is korea

to you now? >> south korea? a beautiful place. very progrezive. very productive. just look at the automobiles that they're putting out. many, many things now manufactured in korea. i thought i'd never see such an impoverished place. horrible the way these people have to live. and when i went back, 1964, '65, there had been many improvements. and then over the years, i was

just there for 1965 and we came tim po. i thought very modern, nice people. traditional. female president, now, which is i think, progress.

i have a very favorable opinion. i would guess faster than japan did. >> would you be willing to revisit korea? >> i'm having some difficulty right now, especially with my feet. the chinese did walk us through a river. i "don't ask, don't tell" take my boots off, some did. my feet were numb for two days. now, that's where i have all the feeling rngs in my feet. so i can't walk real far at a time. i don't know -- i don't -- i would love to make the trip.

my second tour, we were up near the dmz. we were on the dmz. >> wow again? you were in dmz? >> it was near where we were at. i was with the seventh gallery. and the nearest village was right outside the gate. that was our lags tour and i spent 13 months in that area. again, when we left, i left there in 1965. we wernt to term airfield and

that's where we left from. but i've got a very favorable opinion of south korea. and that's about my story for the time i spent in korea. we did have some difficulty when i first arrived. we were in the country about 24 hours before we got shot at. our commander described us as an untrained unit. we had people from all types of moss.

i'll say one thing for them, when we arrived and fired on them, they were brave. i didn't e didn't see a single man run. several of the remains have been found in that area. i read about it a lot of times. every time i see the term remains from north korea, my ears perk up. one man was from bowling green, kentucky. his last name was mcmanus. i can't be sure of the last name, but i called the television station when they announced it.

they listed his name as next of kin. all i wanted to do is say hey, i was there. but i was not given that opportunity. >> why do you think it happened to you? do you have any idea? >> i have no idea. i was a individual alone in the world. i was not married. my mother and father were dead. i had a sister. i had no idea where she was. i was not in contact with her although we had maintain eded letters through the mail. i had wrote her and got an answer.

i found out. and i accepted my fate. and i said to this day, there was some sadness of that story. my half brother who lived in florida contacted me. he's on a web site called the korean war project.

it said i had been captured and my rank and serial number was there. i said yeah, that's me. when i was found, i was asked do you know these people. i saw a named ed potter. and i responded. yes, i know an ed potter. and as strange as it may seem, this was the ed they were looking for. so i corresponded with his nephew for over a year and told him the story that i told you today. his uncle is the man we had been talking about. and he had started to write a book about his experiments. and he asked me to help him confirm and sent the entire package of notes to me. as i began to read the notes,

there were several things that i had not witnessed. and i e-mailed him back and said i read the noets and there are things in here that i cannot confirm because i did not witness that. one of the examples why he had been placed in a hole in the ground and hands tied behind him, i did not see that. he was not with me when this happened. i did not see that. so he quit writing me. she's the one who got me talking about my experience. she asked me to give her my

perspective on what happened there during the battle. she was this guy's squad leader. she wrote please tell me the story. so i agreed, i told her it was painful. i had a lot of sleepless nights trying to dredge up these memories.

but i'm going to try to tell what happened. >> i started off that i had just returned to the united states for a three-year two tours of duty. i mooifed to mae ma and got my orders to go to korea.

we quickly left. we were told that they were north koreaens that they had captured. four men had beaten up two men in this building. he got back on the ship, ate dinner and then come out and got in the truck and was taken to the rail station. i told them it was written primarily using military terminology. i was given several suggestions how to make it more understandable to a civilian to understand it.

i explained after the first yugs of every word what it was. i had some of her friends that read it and they said this was terrible. >> i said i defie anyone to they will me i was wrong. i was there. i did not exaggerate. i did not enhance the story in anyway.

i've heard a lot of stories but everybody tells it differently. there are many stories about the korean war, but this one is mine. this is what i speerpsed. many men starved to death, wounds untreated. that's maltreatment. sanitation supplies. we had no paper for sanitary purposes.

that was it. and that's cruel. then, when they started the lecturing, we were given tobacco or newspapers. so when they began to doctrine nate, did they treat you better? >> much. there was great improvement. we had on the same clothing in

'51 that i had on in november of '50. when i took my socks off, they come apart. one of the worst things that happened was body lice. we'd sit around in the daytime and kweez the little kriters. and we'd be bloody all over from these things. i remember a guy saying i'm getting another transfusion and he'd be scratching those.

in march r april, we'd lay though out in the sun and try to delouse ourselves. i was offered my uniform when i came through in 1953. one of the gis left me and i said i don't ever want to see it again. >> you're okay with it. don't look back.

>> i was so tired. tlt have been interesting now to see one. >> they had p.o.w. links, is what i think they called them. it had a picture of it in there. most of the people in this reel union that i talked to last night, they're all lower rank.

people i talked to last night, one of the guys told me they were taken out of the camp that morning and got back that afternoon. i said i didn't know that. we just went up the river and we had gone and it took us most of the day. >> you have an amazing memory. for 54 years, you're trying to wipe it out, i would add detail

after detail. it's exactly as i can remember. there's some funny things that happened there. we made our own entertainment. we tried to strike one time. they were lecturing us every day, at least twice a day.

we would discuss what we had been told. i was monitored for six months. we had to take notes what everybody's opinion was. if somebody didn't have the right attitude or something, they'd call them out. they made us learn a song in chinese. we had no idea what we were singing.

so the beat was all marching and timing. one of the, they call them progressive and we call them rats. they would join in with the chinese chinese and inform if anyone would say anything. one of them had been educated at the university of berkley. he had told this man that it was death to the americans.

and we're singing this? they would just laugh. we had no idea what was said. he had a different uniform. he got up and spoke in chinese. he said you're now a prisoner of

war. but if you refuse to obey the orders, you lose your standing as a prisoner of war and you'll become our enemy and we'll go to war with you and we've got a lot of weapons. that was just one thing that i could remember. somebody broke out singing god bless america.

there was never such a feeling in all my life. we just decided, i did if they kill me, i'm going to sing. so they didn't interfere. they just stood there and let us finish the song and we went on as if nothing ever happened. well, we sang through that song. that was a straeng site. they came around with a form and said if you sign this form we will serve you with a sumptuous

meteor. everybody siebed it. they called it a sumptuous meal. but it was a lot better than what we had.

after may of 51, guards were all up around us. they didn't bother us at all. they had issued us cotton underwear: i had gone two steps and said put my drawers back. somebody yelled thief, thief, stealing underwear. and everybody started calling me a thief.

so they got huddled to it. it was just for fun. you might have heard me mention sergeant potter. he was acting as my attorney. it was just a fun thing to do on a sunday afternoon. they put us all together. the guy is very ingenius.

>> element like a play. >> yeah, it was all for fun. they just took him through. they had the trial lawyer. and i any the first question was do you think this man is capable of stealing? they said he'd steal anything he could get his hands on. but it was all in fun. everybody was just laughing about it. some of the guards began to yell and holler from up in the post.

they thought we were ploting something. people laughing at him and the chinese instructors had turned out to not be allowed to cut that off.

the chinese had some long clippers. and they said cut everything off. when they made him cut that off, he'd wear that cap and hit his head and said everybody just cracked up laughing. that was his way of beating them at their own game. i was in my early 20s. that was the time of my life. we were missing out on a lot, but at the same time, we were learning a lot.

>> anything you want to add more to this interview? >> i told my story. i was just telling some of the funny things that happened.

screeria -- nigeria. -

your parents and your siblings. >> we were obviously counsel thrill folk. >> okay. >> they were farmers. my dad was. >> um-hmm. were farmers. my dad was. he also spent 45 years in the coal mines. he was a coal miner as well as a farmer. i have nine or had nine brothers and sisters. >> nine brothers. you are? >> i'm number four.

>> wow. >> two of the oldest boys have passed on. my mom abdomen dad have passed on. they are scattered all over the stats of kentucky as ohio as well as texas. i've adopted that as my home. i really enjoy living there. it's a beautiful country. beautiful state. yng a lot of people there. all my interests are there. i stay there. >> tell me about the school you went to. was it in kentucky? >> the primary and secondary school were in kentucky. i did get a high school diploma from kentucky. >> what school in. >> whit lee county high school.

>> when did you graduate? >> i got my diploma in 1959. >> 1959. >> i left that school i guess 1948. >> '48. you joined the army? >> joined the army. went to japan in june of 1948. >> wow. i joined the first cavalry division. >> you're the first cavalry? >> yeah. that's a little west of

yokahama. stayed there for about a year. when the 7th infantry moved out of korea in 1949 i joined the 7th infantry division. i think they had been in korea for an extended period of time. >> you joined the 7th? >> yes. >> what was your specialty? were you infantry? >> infantry. >> and just rifleman or heavy machine gun? >> rifle man. i was a squad leader and part-time platoon sergeant. >> i see. >> that's about the extent of it. >> tell me about the first cavalry. this is kind of well known unit, right? >> yes. we had no mission as such in the

first. we were primarily a show off division. we did lot of parade practice and stuff like that. >> i see. >> i've had five parades in downtown tokyo in the 48 early 49. it was a good outfit if you enjoy parades. we didn't have a lot of extra work as such. we spent a lot of time on the parade field and a lot of guard duty and stuff like that. after i joined the 7th we had a field training. a lot of maneuvers. live firing squad practice platoon practice stuff like

that. >> so when did you go to korea? i made the landing. >> you did? >> yes. >> on the 17th of september. >> yeah. >> 1950. >> yep. >> the marines went in on one beach and the 7th infantry went in on another beach. i don't remember if it's red or blue beach or what. we fought our way into seoul and i got wounded in seoul. >> oh. >> got a head wound. head and ear, my left ear. thought i was going to plead to death. they were able to pull me out.

i had a blood transfusion on that hospital shield that were docked outside of seoul. i had a blood transfusion there. they shipped me back to japan. i had additional blood infused into me. i stayed there for 35 40 days, something like that in that area. at the end of that part i boarded a japanese luxury liner. that was in october. we made another landing at

amhong. it was in late november. we were still in summer wear. the temperature was something like 46, 47 degrees below zero. had a hand grenade from the chinese. then someone placed me in a ammunition carrier with a tank

of sorts. a convoy on the back of the tank. they put any in there. i was passed out then. i don't know how long i stayed there. that's where the chinese found me. that's when they took me out of tank and i was almost frozen. i couldn't ambulate with any degree of satisfaction or efficiency. >> when was it? >> on the second day of december, 1951. >> 1950. >> excuse me 1950. yes. they kept us. we were separated the three of

us. for what reason i have no clue. i suppose since we were wounded we couldn't keep up with the march going north. right. we spent three or four days there. >> with the chinese? >> with the chinese? >> yeah. >> they didn't kill you. >> no. we got the same food they consume consumed. we moved at night four or five or six miles into another community.

spent two or three weeks in that area. no one cared or asked me. i don't know if they cared or not. we stayed there about two or three weeks. then we attempted go someplace. i'm not sure where. we walked for two or three days and came back to the same house. i never could figure that one out. we were kept separate from the main body of pows until the 15th of april, 1951. we want back and jumped on them. i stayed there until august of

'53. i don't remember the exact dates, 8th 9th 10th somewhere in there. >> did you know anything about korea before you go to korea? >> only hearsay. i had no first hand information at all. the people who came back from korea in 1950 with the 7th division division. soldiers talk a lot. some grumble and complain about this and that. i really didn't know a lot about korea or the korean people for that matter. all i heard was complaining. >> about what? >> nothing in particular. the duty primarily.

no one that i talked with of course they were privates and stuff like that. really didn't have a good handle on the situation and they, by nature doesn't have anything good to say about anything in korea. i had been in japan for 27 months when korea started. i went to we moved down to mt. fuji in preparation for the move. i was ready to come back to the states. in fact, my first sergeant called me into his office. i don't remember.

1950, must have been early september. advised me that i was going home. handed me my orders or attempted to. then he took them back and tore them up. i was hurt by that. i wanted the go home. he told me that all the orders had been riscinded and we were going to korea. as far as duty was concerned they decided that i was fully recovered. >> okay. >> you are in a country you never knew before. there's nothing good at the time in korea. you are captured. what were you thinking? >> i think primarily that's the opinion of all young soldiers. when they are faced with something that they have no

knowledge of have no dlu clue what they're going to do or why they're going to do it. i'm sure i had the same opinion.clue what they're going to do or why they're going to do it. i'm sure i had the same opinion. why not turn me loose? why not send me home? such is not the case. i took my medicine and joined my unit. went with them north. >> how many meals did you have on the way? once a day or twice day? >> it's kind of hard to say. we ate the same thing the chinese soldiers were eating. >> you were lucky? >> i was. there's no question about it.

we had ground up peanuts. we would mix water with the concoction and drink it. that's the only sun stance webstance we had. >> you mean something chinese had? >> little sock type things. >> that's a grindsed core edgrinded core. >> yeah. we did not get rice or very little vegetables of any kind because it's the dead of winter. they didn't have fresh vegetables. we were lucky to get anything. >> what was your outfit? was it your summer outfit or

ready for winter? >> summer. we were dressed in fatigues with a pair of field trousers. no long johns. no underwear or anything like that and a field jacket. that does very little to hold out the bitter cold. we were nearly froze, frozen in the division. they had shipped stuff up there but it didn't get to us. we were still with our field jackets and two pairs of trousers.

they gave us a pair of padded pants and the padded jacket. >> how would you describe it? try. >> miserable at best. i mean being a southern boy to begin and not used to real cold weather and then spent my time in japan of course it was cold in the winter time in japan but not li in siberia and along

the reservoir, that area was in siberia as far as i'm concerned. it was just as cold there as inside area, i think. it was miserable. it was miserable at best. i any further did adapt to that lifestyle. just couldn't do it. it's just that simple. >> when you arrived how was your wounds in your face? did it heal? >> pretty much. i got hit on the bridge of any noise with a piece of shrapnal.

there was fragments from it. i got knocked out with that stuff. it had one small area on the bridge of my nose. >> so amazing. every kind of medicines injections. your face clearly healed without anything. >> really. >> amazing, isn't it? >> it really is. i got my first wound was going to do me in. i got shot through the ear. had a bullet to go through my ear. it shot the name out of my helmet. i had shrapnel all up in this area.

i got two or three small fragments. i got all of it out except one small piece. two years later it worked its way out. it was like a kitchen match head, if you know what i'm talking about. >> yeah. >> it final lyly worked out. as far as i know, that's the only thing that remained for any length of time. i had three or four pieces of shrapnel in my head. they managed to cut those out. >> how was it? >> miserable at best. >> tell me the details. talk to young kids there and what you went through detail.

>> actually, we didn't have enough firewood to keep us warm. as you know the korean homes are have a flu that goes under the floor that keeps the house warm. if you have enough wood to put in there and warm the place up. in the winter of -- 1950 '51, they didn't stockpile the wood. they took what they needed when they left their homes. we had no wood to heat the place up with.

we slept 10 to 12 to 15 people per room. that's cozy if you know what i'm saying. you get close. of course, lice warere bad. >> oh, yeah. >> everyone was lousy. we picked lice off each other as best as we could. you can't get rid of those thinks. we finally, those that were able would go into the fields or forest, if you will and gather firewood and we were able to gather enough wood to heat the floors in the homes. i think that was the saving

promise there. things did get better. the reservoir was frozen. we had to walk across the ice into the field side. after the chinese were able to get boats in there. it came later, early in the year next to march, april, may or somewhere like that. they were able to haul in boat loads of wood. we gathered most of our firewood from force from the hills. food was a premium at that time. we were using millet, cracked

corn. i'm not sure if it was maize or real fine grain. >> do they actual give you grains so you cook it? >> yes. >> you cooked it? >> yes. >> how? did you have tooltools appliances? >> we had large pots, large vats. we would build a fire under the pots and boil the water and had the grain of whatever we had. it's very little substance in cracked corn. diarrhea was bad. >> how many times a day, twice? >> constantly.

>> i mean the food, meal? >> twice. >> you ate twice a day? >> yeah. of course it was limited, a amount. they didn't have stuff and they couldn't cook it if they didn't have it. it was very, strictly rationed. we would get maybe a cup or cup and a half of cracked corn or millet or whatever we had. our systems weren't just adopted to that type food. diarrhea was rampant.

in late 52'51 before the winter set in we did get an increase in our rations. we got pork. >> really? >> yeah. >> are you sure? >> i'm positive. >> the meat. >> meat yeah. >> they gave you meat? >> yeah. >> oh. >> we had to pick the hair out of it. it wasn't thoroughly cleaned. >> i see. >> wasn't appetizing at all but if you're hungry, you'll eat. we did start getting a little pork. i think they began to issue rice at that time. we didn't get rice for the first

several months of year. we ate a will the of peanuts. ground up peanuts. the rations did improve and dissentary slowed down. we were getting used to that type food. i don't recall ever getting beef beef, but we did get pork, quite a lot of pork. bring in whole hogs that were frozen. they had been cleaned outside. most of the hair had been removed and the innards had been removed. we just got pork as you see it

there. >> how did you cook? >> we had pots that we cooked it in. >> boil? >> boiled. we did get a few potatoes. we did get some turnips. that was about the extent of it. >> very good. >> we thought it was excellent after having pure cracked corn and millet. we survived. can't put a lot of emphasis on that. i'm here. >> what was the most difficult thing in the camp? what really bothers you and you craved for? >> heat in the winter.

>> heat? >> yeah. of course, food. that was a constant thing. we just didn't have enough to fill our desires or needs really. when we had no fishing gear, we couldn't catch fish. had no hooks or lines or anything like that. a little ingenuity on the part of some of our troops. they were able to make musical instruments. one guy made a guitar. had no guitar strings. we used wire from whatever. it didn't sound like a guitar but it was something to make

noise, to make what they called music. things did improve in late '51, early '52 we we began to adapt, if you might say. we knew what we had to endure to survive. we did the best we could do. >> what made you get through it? what was it hope god, whatever? >> my faith in god. >> were you christian at the time? >> not as such, no. i did attend church services regularly. >> when in. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.? in.

>> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.in. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.n. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel.. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel. >> before i got into korea. i did go to chapel. i did attend a lot of church when i was a child growing up. i had the basic knowledge of the supreme being. it did sound good to me at that time. i had a lot of faith in the supreming with. we had norman hale. he was a spiritual leader. richard basset. they were both young., as young as me. they delivered a good service as

well as they knew how. the good thing about it they still embrace, till this day what they taught back in those days. i'm now an ordained deacon of a church. i go regularly every time the doors open doors open, i go. my wife is an inspiration to me. she's a big influence. i know she's a big influence on me. i did get saved. i did get baptized. as i said, i am an ordained deacon of the church, and i enjoy that. >> did you pray at the time in the camp? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> what did you pray?

can you share? >> yes. for the ability to with stand the rough winter, the rough life we were living at that time. we always prayed for more food heat. we always prayed the lord would come to our rescue. and provide us or give us the abilities ability to provide for ourselves. i think that was a big thing. i really do believe that. i try to live by that today. >> were you able to write a letter back to your family at the camp? >> yes.

i think i had four or five letters that my mom did get from me. >> did get from you? >> yes. >> okay. you were allowed to write? >> yes. >> did they gave you the paper and pencil? >> yes. we would get paper in large sheets like this. >> that long? >> yeah. >> wow. >> we would, bend it or fold it and dampen the seam and would be able to take it straight and make sheet size. if memory serves me correctly, my mom kept the three or four letters that she got from me and i read those many times after i came home.

yes, she got them. i got three or four letters from home. my sister wrote to me every three or four days. we didn't get all the mail that was sent to us. i know that for sure because my family members a lot of them wrote letters to me but i didn't get that many. i got a few. >> you still keep the letter? >> when did your family and parents know that you are in the camp? >> as you may know we were carried as mia for a long time. they had no confirmation of my

status until about august or september of '51. there was an exchange of information between the chinese and our government. they did have large number of pows. i don't know when this information was passed or when either side honored what the other side said. as far as the status of the troops, i don't know. i believe that my mom and dad got word that we were no longer

mia that we were pow. >> pow. >> they didn't know where. they knew it was in north korea or someplace. mom didn't really believe that information until she got a letter from me which was in late 1951. i don't recall the exact date that she got it but it was confirmed. she knew for fact that i was not dead. >> what did your parents say to you when you returned home? >> thank god.

pardon me. very hard. >> looking back all those years how do you put all those things, all the suffering, unbelievable coldness, everything into a perspective? how do you do that? >> i try my best not to think about it. >> not to think about it? >> not to think about it. there are times when -- i used to do a lot of hunting and i would go out into the field and freeze my backside off. during some of those times i would think, man, i've endured this stuff in korea in 1951

1950 1952 2 and 3. it got to a point where i quit hunting because i didn't want to be reminded of it. it did remind me. when you get out there and you're freezing and raining and you're cold and miserable and hungry. i told myself i do not need this. i quit hunting. today i eat when i'm hungry. i get warm when i'm cold. i get cold when i'm hot.

i get cooled off. i'm living now like it i want to. i go where i want when i want. do what i want to do. and money is not a problem. i still love the army and would go back today if i could and i'm 83 years old. i would still go back but i know i can't. i've had 100% disability for 25 years. ill give that up if i could go back in the military.

puts me closer to god. i don't know how i could get much closer than i am now. i'm an early riser. i get up sometimes 3:00 in morning. i retire to my back patio. turn the lights out, drink my coffee. i have a cup of coffee with me and i talk to the lord every day. >> are you still thankful? >> yes. yes. i thank him every day. i never eat a meal without saying thank you. regardless of where i am what restaurant i'm in the wife and i always say a table grace and

people have commented on that. >> what is your message to the people who are in trouble like you? somebody who are really sick, somebody really in need of help, somebody going through unbelievable sufferings and ordeals and difficulties. what is your message to them? >> lay your burdens at feet of jesus. pray. it's good therapy. people say i don't know how to pray. you don't have to know how to pray. talk to the lord in the language you understand. >> right. >> lay your burdens at feet of jesus. pray hard.

never forget. that's good therapy. >> have you been back to korea? >> no. i got back to japan in 1991. the wife said to me would you consider going to korea? i said no. i would not consider going back to korea. i've since changed my mind. i carried a chip on my shoulder for a long time against the north koreans.

then, you pardon me for saying this but i had in my mind a thought that korea was and is korea. the same breed of people who have gone through so much turmoil with the japanese that they became hardened and brutal like the japanese were. i do know that some of the some of the north korean soldiers were brutal. they many atrocityies that i know about and i will never forgive those guys for that. i've been in therapy for 16

years. >> interesting. >> therapy. >> ptsd therapy? >> yes. i finally found it in my heart that all people are not the same. they're not all brutal. they're not all sadistic. i had it bad. i really had a chip on my shoulder. i could think of nothing good to say about korea, north or south. i started reading different articles that i seen published of the progress that the souts is making.

i read and listen to the news media about how back ward the north still is. i know how, it's tough for me to understand how an individual like that bunch in north could be as unconcerned about their nation, about the people of their nation they're starving to death. how a president or whomsoever could disregard the condition of their country. and spend all

their money on war material rather than feed the population. i finally came to the conclusion that some of those people in charge of the nation are only in it for what they can get. as long as they are surviving fat and sassy got everything they could possibly want and they are depriveing the population of the meager stuff it's not the people. it's the people in charge. i still departments want to go back to kree yea. i can see from everything i read

the south are doing the things that, everything they can do for their people. i can see that. i can believe that. they've got a road system that second to none. they have a transportation system that's second to none. they no longer, well i'm sure that they still have a lot of the older folks that are going to stay with what served them best. the things they want to do. where as in the north the people are still starving. they've got a bunch of idiots up there who want only for themselves.

that has changed my total outlook. they're all not the same. >> do you forgive? >> i have. there are some things that you cannot forgive. when i see souldiers with his iersoulds soldiers with his penis cut off and stuck in his mouth and his mouth with wire, you can't forgive that. that's brutal. that's sadistic. i've seen that. in one side of my mouth i can

say some soldiers will do anything if it will relieve him of the stress that he is enduring at that time. i know that our soldiers did some brutal things. i know that. i didn't see it but i know in my heart that they did. yes, i have forgiven a lot of things. forget, no. i will never forget. i have forgiven the chinese. they did some things that i'm not pleased with at all. i suffered from them and by their hand i suffered.

i don't think what they did was called for. i know it wasn't called for. i survived it and i prayed a lot then. i've been thinking a lot about returning to korea. i can't compare the north with the south. it's no way i can do that. >> yeah. >> in my wildest dream i can't do that. i can see and i can read and i can hear. nothing good is coming out of the north. on the other hand, what i read, see and hear about the south, i'm impressed. i really am impressed. i think my guard is just about down. i do believe that one day i will go back to korea.

after months and months of cleaning the house, charles halipurn was making one more walk through. he saw an envelope with green seal and noticed the date was an 1832 document. he removed a single nail from a panel in an upstairs attic room and discovered a trunk and books and portraits stuffed up under the eves and this was this treasure of dolly madison's things. we've had this story available to the public displaying different items from time to time but trying to include her

life story from her birth to her death in 1849. some of the items that we currently have on display, a card ivory calling card case that has a card enclosed with dolly's sigtsnature as well as that of her niece anna. some small cut glass perfume bolts and pair of silk slippers that have tiny little ribbons that tie across the arch of her foot. the two dresses are reproductions of a silk gown that she wore earliest in life and a red velvet gown which is intrigued both that it lasted and was part of this collection and there's also a legend that is now accompanies this dress.

the political landscape has changed with the 114th congress. now only are there 43 new republicans and 15 new democrats and 12 new democrats and one new democrat in the senate. there's also 108 women in congress including first african-american republican in the house and the first woman veteran in the senate. keep track of the members of congress using congressional chronical on c-span. new congress best access on c-span, c-span2 c-span radio and c-span.org. you're watching a special

presentation. the korean war credit ranveterans digital memory s an archive of the soldiers who fought what's sometimes called the forgotten war. the archive includes a collection of oral history interviews that provide eyewitness accounts of the korean war. we'll hear from salvatore conte and was forced to live in solitary confinement for eight months. he'll also talk about how he survived as a pow for two years. this program is about 50 minutes. >> where were you born? >> new york city. >> when? >> december 1th 19st 1930. >> 1st. >> no way. that's day i got captioned. december 24th 1929.

>> christmas eve? >> yeah. it's an interesting story that goes with that. i was delivered by a midwife and the midwife of my mother conspired instead of registering me december 249th they did in january 1st 1930. if there was a draft, it would have me as later year. it was so prevent me from going to war but i ended up. >> tell me about your family. >> beautiful family, wonderful neighborhood. primarily italian. some jewish but primarily italian. we had lots of activity because of the abundance of males.

a lot of sports were involved. no baseball. no baseball fields. >> how many siblings? >> two more. an older brother. they are both deceased. >> all boys? >> yeah. >> what school did you go to in new york city? >> ps 112 was my grammar school. >> ps 112? >> yeah. >> your grammar school. >> in brooklyn. junior high school was shallow junior high school from the 9th to the 12th grade. no, the junior high school was the 10th to the 12