the chinese strides, the japanese shuffles. make him remove his socks and shoes, if anybody and then you do the toe routine. michelle, in her pher on this subject, said it was ridiculous. why? i know i can't tell. >> i mean were they just going to start persecuting all asians who shuffle? what would happen to an old chinese man with arthritis and overbite.

what this cartoon did from a journalist socially credible and deeply entrusted as life magazine was, especially at a time of such po larty was deeply irresponsible, in my opinion. which we can all appreciate from contemporary standpoint. when people flinch at the use of the term jam. and one thing i do appreciate about it, though is acknowledgment, at least, in a public forum that most people could not tell the difference between certain types of asians, which, you know, i think a lot of us still agree would happen today. >> well, would it happen today? would it happen today? would this happen again? taking a large number of americans, citizens because of their race their religion, their national origin.

>> i mean it's not the same thing, but it's sort of happening with the ferguson and, like, you know, racial policy in the united states right now. so it's not the same thing at all. but it's only still an issue today. in terms of race. >> what if there's another 9/11. what would happen? >> i don't know. but we do a very good job of ill filling the other episodes like that. very, very traumatic for the country as a whole. >> does anybody else have any thoughts on that? the case of national security. they had to verify whether it's

a real passport. because, as you know there were people who boarded mh-37 0e with stolen passports. they were italians, but that didn't seem to matter. things like that kind of inform or impressions of how minorities are tolerated, generally. when i was researching for this in talking to a japanese woman, one of the things she braught up was it was not black people by her account who integrated little rock high school in the '50s. when president eisenhower sent in the army.

she said it was the japanese who integrated. because some of the japanese who had been in the camps in arkansas stayed in little rock area and became students at little rock high school. and were the only group of students who went into the school when the black kids went in. no whites went in but the japanese americans did. and the japanese american citizens league also was the first organization in the united states to circulate petitions after 9/11 saying that muslims, in general were not to blame for this and should not be arrested orb concentrated. so that they knew what it was

like -- my own opinion is we would do it again. and the most likely target would be muslims. so 50 latinos. a lot of people in this country want to put latinos on the texas border in concentration camps. so thicks like this probably never go away. and we have to live with that. now, there are 120,000 japanese americans, maybe 125,00 considering the ones outside the west coast on the continental united states. there are 150,000 japanese americans on hawaii. but nothing never done. the only thing that ever

happened to hawaiians, it just so happened that the japanese on the mainland was that they were thrown out of the army. but that was done and then secretly reversed for reasons i'll go into. but why weren't the hawaiians who, afterall, were much closer to japan, were much more likely to be invaded, had already been bombed and there were great stories about how they had sabotaged things, all of them untrue. why weren't the japanese on hawaii? because they were 40 prnt of the population and the hawaiian economy would have collapsed. if they put them in camps or put them -- the idea they would have put them on a separate island but, without them, the economy of hawaii would have collapsed.

obviously, the japanese americans got picked on here. because they were relatively small group and the fear the hysteria, the meanness the greed all landed on them. i'm going to skip a lot of what i was going to say to talk about how this ended. why did this end, just as i'm passing through here, this is a columnist, well-known named henry mcelmore who was both in the l.a. times and the san francisco chronical. strictly speaking as an american, i think americans are nuts. the only japanese apprehended have been the ones the f.b.i.

actually had something on. that was not true. the rest of them, are free as birds. i know this is the meting pot of the world and all men are created equal an there must be no such thing as race or creed hatred, but do these things go when a country is fighting for its life? i'm for immediate removal of every japanese on the west coast to a point deep in the interior. i don't mean in a nice part rgs either. personally, i hate the japanese. and that goes for all of them. let'm be pinched, hurt, hungry and dead up against it. so this fellow is pretty famous fellow in his time. carried along that way. but the one that counted was when waulter litman i want to read a couple of the headlines, hey, from the papers, in early 1942. the los angeles times.

crime and poverty go hand-in-hand with asiatic labor. brown men are made citizens illegally. japanese are menace to american women. japanese -- this is from the copy of the l.a. times. japanese males are taught by their elders to look upon american girls with a view to sex relations. the proposed assimilation of the two races is unthinkable. it's morally indefensible and biologically impossible. in san francisco jam boat flashes message ashore.

enemy planes cited over california coast. jams on japanese tomato plants point to airfields. this was william randall hearst. like dr. seuss. come see the myriads of little jams. he's fully raising fruits and flowers and vegetables on california sunshine and sing hopefully and wistfully. some day i come with japanese army and take all this. yesz, thank you. densely the flee to peaceful little japanese fishing boats flying up and down the california coach catching fish and taking photographs. none of these things were true. but they built up the hysteria that people all observe the country worried about what was going to happen to relatives, other people, in this part of the world.

edward r.murrow his name was edward r. murrow of cbs news gave a speech in washington saying i think it's probable that if seattle ever does get bombed, you'll be able to look up and see some university of washington sweaters on the boys doing the bombing. there was a mother in washington wrote to her daughter named anne and said anne, don't you think you and johnny who was her husband, and the girls there were two little girls should leave the west coast while you can?

he had been a speech writer, he was head of the foreign policy asoelgsuation. and he came out to california to see for himself. he had lunch with earl warren who gave him his theory. i believe we're just being lulled into a sense of security. our day of reckoning is bound to come. it's a whole theory of organization in secret. walter litman came back to

february, wrote those same things in a column. and, as the greatest liberalist in the country said to the smartest journalist in the country, that's partly what gave rose vemt the cover to sign order 90066. what he said was the new york herald and 250 other papers, the spa civilic coast is in imminent danger of combined attack from within and without.

that was litman's line. it became through the press roosevelt's line: they -- so what finally happened was that a military zone was set up on the woes e west coast. the three west coast states plus parts of a az. everyone in that was rounded up on the gunpoint though they didn't rezigs, and were put first in the assembly centers, the stables. and then and then in the concentration camps. the newspapers at exactly that time reported page after page on the battle of los angeles.

the battle of los angeles was fought on the night of february 24th with army and antiaircraft guns blasting hundreds of rounds in the sky for hours. five people were killed in it. as the roads out of the city were clogged with people fleeing for their lives. the l.a. times headlined l.a. raided jam planes pe ril santa monocan, elsugundo and long beach. they did not bring down the enemy. guns missed. the enemy was a navy wealther balloon. that was the battle of los angeles. so i'll bring this to an end for now. talking about how it ended.

and what the american people did. even the yietsds the oldest population, then 140 million people, was running out of men. to fight the war. so at the beginning of 1943, they allowed japanese americans who had been in the army to rejoin and let others either enlist or be drafted but they were put in a segregated unit, like blacks called negros then, or colored people, did not serve together, no matter what you see in the movie did not serve together with whites nor the japanese. the japanese were formed into the 442nd -- 442nd regimental combat team, which fought in

itly, france and germany and became the most decorated military unit in american history. 11 me dals of honor were given and thn later became a united states senator and served for 40 years. the publicity surrounding the 442nd began to change the minds of the country about the japanese americans and their so-called aent american attitudes. the public did not know that at the same time 6,000 japanese americans who were flown in

japanese, only one in 100 american japanese or japanese americans americans could pass any kind of fluency test in japan. and the test was third grade japanese. the kibae were recruited in military service. the japanese blooeched that their codes were unbreakable. they interrogated prisoners and stole their maps.

the chief intelligence officerest maited at the end of the war, that the mis never known to the american public, the public didn't know they had existed, had shortened the war by two years and saved american lives. so, finally i'll end up, obviously i could go only forever. but -- i -- the press kept at it. in 1944, the l.a. times did a poll, do you favor a constitutional amendment after the war for deportation of all japanese from this country?

and forbe bidding further immigration. yes, 10,598, no, 72. so that i'll end up here. here we go. there was a very famous incident, a town called hood river valley. which is in mt. oregon. it's between m.t. washington and the cascade river. it was 40 pnts japanese. they're very famous for growing apples and cherries before the war. after the war, the american legion post first blacked out the names of all the japanese.

11 from the town japanese americans who had been killed in combat blacked out their names and said that they would take care of anyone who tried to come back. there was a lot going on. the hood river became famous. but it wasn't only there. a lieutenant colonel named james hanley was from a small town manned in north dakota. and he was a commander. the battalion commander was in the 442nd were white men, although japanese, like innoate took over, when -- if the white commanders were killed. he was a commander.

he happened to read a short commentary in his hometown newspaper. there was some good jap americans, but it doesn't say where they were editored. charles pierce, who was a friend of hanleys. hanley wrote him back and said yes, charlie,i know where there's some good japanese americans. there were 5,000 in this unit. they are american soldiers and i know where they're buried. i wish i could show some of them to you, charlie. i remember one japanese american. he was walking ahead of me in a forest in france. a german shell took off the right side of his face. i wish the boys of the lost baa toll ealon. the 442nd became very famous for rescuing battalion from a texas division that was lost behind enemy lines.

so that hanley continued. the marvel is charlie, that these boys fight it all. they're good soldiers in spite of the racial prejudice shown by your paragraph by your newspaper. i know it makes a good joke, but it's the kind of joke that prejudice thrives upon. our system is supposed to make good americans out of anyone. it certainly has in the case of these boys. you and a few others make one wonder what we're fighting for. i hope it isn't racial prejudice. in orange county was a family named masuda. and they were imprisoned in hill

river aez az. and then there were four sons, two of them were killed in germany. and when their sister and mother returned to westmiister, within a few weeks, midnight raiders came to her door and told her to get out. she was frightened and she did. one of her brothers had been posthumously awarded distinguished service medal the second highest decoration for bravery in the united states army. when a general named joseph stillwell, vinegar joe stillwell, who was something of a legend, heard about that, he went to westminister and presented the medal to mare

masuda the sister of sergeant kazua, masudo. he couldn't give it to the mother because she was an alien. and even with everything that happened, or yennals were not allowed to become citizens until 1952. and this is what joe stillwell said on the steps of westminister hall. the knee say brought an awful big hunk of america with their blood. i say we soldiered ought to perform a pick ax club to the japanese americans who fought the war with us. any time we see a bar fly commando cooking on these kids or diskrim name e nating against them or their families we ought to bang them over the head with a pick ax. i'm willing to be a charter member. we can't allow a single injustice to be done to the knee

say without defeeting the purposes for which we fought. so that's the story of -- part of the story of japanese americans in world war ii and the press in world war ii. and, as i said, i, for one at least, don't doubt that it could happen again. and if it does, it will be the press now more diverse press, but more far-reaching that does it. so that's it for today. thank you. >> this is american history tv, prime time. blank blaeng

. >> he removed a single nail and discovered a trunk and books and portraits stuffed up under the eves and this was this treasure.

of dolly madison's things. we've had this story available to the public some displaying different items from time-to-time. but trying to include her life story from her birth to her death in 1849. some of the items that we currently have on display, a carved ivory calling card case that has a card enclosed with dolly's signature as well as that of her niece, anna. and a pair of silk slippers that tie across the arch of her foot.

watch all 06 our events.

. >> the japanese were enticed to go to hawaii.

the sugar plantation people came to japan to recruit workers. they said, gee if you work three years in the sugar plantations of hawaii, it's equivalent to working 10 years in the factories of japan. so close to a thousand people, way back in 1885, went on a three-year labor contract to sugar plantations of hawaii. but when they got there, they found out differently. they had foremans or lunas that had quips. they used the leter whips on the workers. so a slave-like condition. so many of them got out of their three-year labor contract, escaped to the coffee plantations or the pineapple plantations. some went back to the cities, others were enticed to go to the mainland. many of you heard of benjamin franklin. however, he wanted to keep america white. way back in 1751 franklin says he didn't want the blacks or the

asians here in america. and in the 1850s, america wanted to build a transcontinental railway from new york to california. but they couldn't get enough workers. so what did america do? they went to china to recruit the chinese to come and build a railroad. after railroads were built, they didn't want the chinese here. so they had antichinese movement as early as 1879. every dog has its day. red gentleman to yellow gentleman. this was 1879 three years later, chinese were excluded in 1882. this is an actual remnant of world war ii. this is one-third of an original

barracks in wyoming. that was a camp i was incarcerated in. so we'll go on the inside and see the structure. the smallest camp was about 67,000. the largest camp around 19,000. i was incarcerated in wyoming about 60 miles from the east gate of yellow stone national park. i was 11. came out at 14 queers old. so basically, three years and three months. i'll show you some illustration. this is by estelle peck. she was married to a japanese person. so she came into the camp. she wrote the book "loan heart palpin".

and this is an ill trags. here is a pot belly stove. we fed coal into it. by the way, we used all military terminology. so we lived in barracks. and then we ate at the mess hall. so we were fed three meals a day. this is what really broke up our family unity: as a family, we sometime ate breakfast togt. but by lunchtime and dinner time, we were regulated by the dinner gong. any time we heard the gong, we we believe the to the mess hall and then went out to play and then out to school. we didn't have a chance to discuss family matters at the dinner table because we didn't eat together. and then, the la treens.

a woman in heart mountain complained, so they put partitions, but, still, no doors. so in camp, they said gee, they have to use strategy just to use the bathroom. they have to go to the end stall, it's the least amount of strafic. no, it e it backfired. everyone went to peek to see if someone was in the end stall. but on the men's side, we didn't have any partition. we had to sit next to strangers and do our personal business. this was probably the worst thing of camp life. and then we had the shower room. the shower room was about 8 feet by 10 feet. on one wall, we had four shower heads. on another wall, about four shower heads. no privacy. you see seven people taking a shower there. and the woman didn't have showers athearted moub tan. they had bathtubs. so, still, you could see the seven woman taking a bath. so no privacy.

here is a pile of coal. that was one of my jobs. make sure we have enough coal to keep us warm. as you noesed any time we had any wind, we always had dis. so any time we had any wind, we always had a dust storm. there was seven of us about the size of a two-car garage, 20 feet by 24 feet. and we only had one light bulb. we had one pot belly stove to

keep us warm. but no water. what did we need water for? well, to bathe, to cleanse ourgss, to cook, to drink. but we had no water here. so we had to go to the public laundry room or the public la treens or go to the mess hall to get a drink of water or go to the la treens to do our business. so initially, there was another unit beyond here for family of four or five. and then it duplicated. so a total of six units in about six families, about 25 people lived in one barracks which was 20 feet wide and 120 foot long. initially, we didn't have any insulation. so very cold. we had happened to get one of the coldest winter in wyoming history, minus 28 degrees. so we suffered the first winter but by the second winter, we had insulation called celetex. the celetex is a small piece up

to the left up there, about a half-inch thick insulation that we had throughout. and most camps did not have a ceiling. but we did have a ceiling. so it cut down on heat as well as sound. so some people said gee as kids, we're fortunate that our parents wouldn't dare raise their voice because it would be heard throughout the 120 foot of the barracks. one week's notice right there. on the exclusion order there was 108. right here we have a world war i veter ran. he's protest inging.

he was labeled as an enemy alien. he protested and had to go to the camps ef though he fought for america during world war i. little known fact is that we had about 2200 japanese latinos japanese latinos from these wliet-named countries, central america and south america. president roosevelt requested of all the countries to ascend people of japanese ancestry. brazil had the largest japanese population. but they refused to cooperate with president roosevelt. at e and who kidnapped around 1800 japanese peruvians went through the panama canal regarding to texas. and the central american countries also had about 40006 them. incarcerated here in chisto city, texas.

president rose velt wanted prisoners of war. so during the war, sweden in a new tral country sent a ship here to long island, new york. there, they got 5,000 japanese. some japanese latinos and some that wanted to go back to japan from the camp. or so called troublemakers. so they got 5,000 of them bordered the ships and went around africa to india. there, they met a red skrosz ship with 5,000 americans and were stranded in japan and exchanged prisoners of war there. >> aboard are 663 americans.

>> in 2 camps, they try to make it as normal as possible. they try to give them a respectable funeral service. but sometimes, they could not get fresh flowers. so sometimes these flowers were made of paper. so they had origami flowers. they tried to make an add normal situation as normal as possible. for example, right here, they chose the high school prom queen. she didn't have a beautiful crown, but at least they went through the procedure of electing a prom queen. during world war 2, "life requests magazine presented this. i sort of snicker at it. it could be either or japanese or chinese or corenal, vietnamese. it could be any of those. but i sort of snicker at it because this is how you can tell the dwimpbs between a japanese and a chinese. hearted mountain camp was infamous for the protesters. right here is the court trial in

chayenne wyoming: 63 members of the heart mountain camp were -- got draft noess. they resisted. they said unless you free our family, then thelds not serve uncle sam in the yietsds army. the courts said no, regardless of the family situation, they have to report to the service. they refused so they got federal penitentiary service, 2-3 years. so a total of 85 protested from heart mountain, wyoming. a total of about 300 protested from the ten camps. when we were incarcerated in the camps, everyone got one of these. they told us to go to the hay stack and fill it with hay.

and being from krae kra, we didn't have winter cloeting. so, in wyoming, the snow country, we were issued these world war i navy pea kout e coats. everyone got a pea coat. so these are all adult sizes. i was a young kid of 11 years old. so when i wore it it looked like the jacket was walking.

as i mentioned, i was a youk kid of 11 years old. so fortunate, we had a boy scout woman. heart mountain camp had the largest boy scout movement of all of the camps. we had seven troops, vary cub scout troop girl scout troop, brownies. we had thousands of kids in organized sports to keep us active in the camps. this drum happened to go into the camps during world war ii. and, initially, when it went into camp, it had an american flag and a japanese flag. but it wasn't popular to be japanese. so they changed the japanese flag to american flag there. oempb 17 or orlder had to fill out a loyalty questionnaire. where were you born, where were you educated. but the controversial question was question 2e7 and 28.

basically, it says i will give up loyalty to the emperor of japan. people did not know how to answer that. 17 years old, probably never been to japan. but they didn't know how to answer that. how could they give up their loyalty to the emperor of ja opinion if they never had it. they could you describe only answer yes or no. and then the real other one is that are you willing to fight for the military? where ever called for. and, again 17 years old, does that mean yes you're willing to fight for america and go today or will they wait until you finish your high school, get your high school diploma and go fight for america at a later date. so those are the two controversial questions. number 27 and 28.

this is about the cyto family. the father protests and says why should you fight for america. we were inkars rated behind bobbed wire fence. no due process of law. these flee boys insisted they're going to fiekt for america. the brother wrote to the father feel proud that your son gave the supreme sacrifice for his country. so he was really sad about that. but tlen two months later, he got killed. now the father is really concerned. so, he asked the department of army to return the third son from combat area. he was refused on the ground that he had one more son at home. but, fortunately, he did goat home. initially, the 104 combat team

were issued that circular patch there. the arm and the sword with dripping blood. they said that's not us. so they had given permission to draw up their own patch. so they drew the red, white and blue background with a liberty torch. so that represents a precedent for 442nd regimental come water team. this is one of the models of one of ten camps. this was located 2 hub miles north of loss angererless. 101 of them were incarcerated here in the camp. the camp had a population of about 10,000 people here.

way up in the back, you see this statue or obelisk. that was in the cemetery. so they go to a pilgrimage. now we go up to the kavrp annually. about april or may of the year and remember what happened to them during world war ii. i feel america is the greatest country in the world because president reagan gave us an official apology from the white house. everyone that was incarcerated in camp during world war ii had an official apology from the white house. this is not president reagan's signature. this is president bush.

we got this o efficient apology and we got a rope ration of $20,000. that sounds like a lot of pun but are you willing to it was a great feeling. about $20,000 for the government. i feel my parents should have got it. he had to suffer all those years after he was 50 years old. for me it was gravy. i put my $20,000 plus to tell our story that this never happens to anyone again. anywhere

anywhere. we were incarcerated even though we were young american citizens. after world war ii, i just had to finish up my education. i graduated from the local high school. then went on to los angeles city college. eventually graduated from the university of southern california as a teacher. so i put in about 25 years in teaching and hope that we learn from our mistakes and what happened to us during world war ii. but still, i feel america didn't learn its lesson because after 9/11, what happened to the american arabs, american muslim, american people looked down upon them because they looked like the terrorists. so that's what happened to us in world war ii. we looked like the enemy during world war ii, and then after

terrorists attack the twin towers and the pentagon, they looked down upon the american arabs, american muslim just because they look like the terrorists. so they would have to learn from our world war ii lessons that it should not happen again. this is the national center for world war ii monuments. and we have about 850 names here. people of japanese ancestry that fought for america during world war ii. and you'll see the letters moh behind some of the names. that signified the medal of honor. there's only one person that fought during world war ii that got the medal of honor. but in 1999, they asked president clinton to review the records of world war ii, and after reviewing it, president

clinton upgraded 20 more people of japanese ancestry to receive the national congressional medal of honor. so now we have 21 person of japanese ancestry that received the medal of honor during world war ii. and shall we say the biggest name that got it was daniel inouye. he lost his arm fighting for america, and he is now the senator from hawaii. senator dan inouye. so also we have a catch-all memorial over here from the spanish american war to vietnam, iraq, everything right here. catch all. we have about 100 names here that gave their life during the vietnam war. and then we have about 250 names here that gave their life in the korean conflict. this is the go for broke monument. the regimental combat team

during world war ii. the 442nd regimental combat team was the most decorated unit in military history for its size and length of service. they got over 9,000 purple hearts, seven distinguished presidential citations, and there's over 16,000 names here. they are randomly placed by computer so you cannot find someone's name, but we have an index over there by the computer to locate anyone that fought during world war ii. so there's the units they fought with and the various ones throughout world war ii. here's the list of medal of honor winners during world war ii. 21 names and the various decorations that they received. >> you can learn more about little tokyo and the history of

the japanese in the united states at the japanese american national museum website. saturday morning starting at 10:00 a.m. our nation's governors get together to issue discuss discus issues affecting their state. sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on

afterwards wes moore traces his career choices from combat veteran to social entrepreneur to find his life's purpose. on american history tv on c-span3 saturday night just after 7:00, the 1963 interview of malcolm x discussing race relations and opposition to racial integration and sunday at 6:30 p.m. eastern, former cia chief of disguise tells the story of a husband and wife kgp spy team that infiltrated through the use of sex. send us a tweet at @cspan.

in 2008 he was interviewed about congressional efforts to seek redress. it's about an hour for this world history. >> today is friday july 4th 2008. we're in denver at the japanese american national museums conference, and this morning we have secretary norman mineta with us. and i'm doing this differently. we usually do an oral history and i start from the very beginning. but because of time constraints, i'm really going to focus on the redress, so the first question, i just want to find out, was

there anything in your early life that led you to politics? >> well, not really. i don't think anyone really, at an early age, says, you know, i'm going to be -- other than, i guess, kids saying i want to be president of the united states. but i don't think anyone really says, i want to be mayor of san jose, california. but, you know, being and i started community activities within the japanese american community through our san jose japanese methodist church, jacl, and then that sort of expanded into activities in the total majority community. and so those kinds of community activities then led me to the possibility of being appointed

to the city council. the first time -- i didn't run for the city council. we had a mayor who was -- we had our first directly elected mayor, and that created a vacancy on the city council. so the new mayor and two members of the city council came to me and said, we've got to fill that vacancy on the city council. would you consider putting your name in for it? so i said, well, you know, i'm in business with my father and i really should talk to him about this. so, anyway, i talked to my dad and he said, well, we could make the arrangements between how you and i conduct the business. but he said in japan there is an old adage about if you're in politics, you're going to be like the nail sticking out of the board.

you know what happens to that nail? it always gets hammered. the question is, are you going to be able to take that hammering? i thought about it and talked to a lot of friends and finally said, okay, i'll put my name in. so i was appointed to the city council for the two-year unexpired term of the mayor who had vacated that post to become the new mayor. so then in 1969, i then ran for election to stay on the city council. >> so i have a question. do you think if you were not appointed to that position, would it have ever occurred to you to run for city council? >> well, i had people asking if i would consider doing it. and i was the first non-white on the city council. and so i always thought, you know, that would really be a difficult task.

so even though i had people ask me about it, i always dismissed it. but this was an opportunity through an appointment, not election. so you get appointed, then you do your job, then you can seek election. so in 1969, i ran for the city council post that i had by appointment. but on the brochure, i couldn't say reelect norm because i hadn't been elected in the first place, so we used the phrase retain norm on the council. >> how supportive was the japanese american community to your campaign? >> very. i had great support from within the community. at that point it was probably maybe 2% of the population, 3%. very, very small. but i had great support from the japanese american community. and so that was also true -- by 1970, i had become vice mayor, and then in 1971, for the reelection for the mayor's post, the mayor decided not to seek reelection. so then that mayor and many people said, hey, you've got to run for mayor. well, i was trying to split my duties between being on the city

council and running the business, and it was really taking more and more time, and so i decided to run for mayor in '71. so that was probably the most difficult decision i had to make between, you know, a career choice in terms of the insurance business that had been in the family since 1920 and then running for mayor, because that really was going to take full-time. >> when you decide to do make that choice, to go into politics full-time, what possibility were you hoping for by going into politics? what were you thinking at that point? >> only about what is it i could

do as mayor of san jose. and i think as i look back over the 40 years i have been in public service, one of the things i always tried to do was not to get caught up in this whole thing about where are you going to be? where you going? and looking out into the future as to where you want to go. because i think a lot of people make a mistake about keeping their sight on where they want to go and they'll stumble over something right in front of them. and so i've always maintained work hard at the job you're in. do a good job there. because then if you come to a fork in the road and it's like the great american philosopher yogi berra said when you come to the fork in the road, take it. but if people are so intent on their goal way over there, that's driving them. it's not a personal decision.

i want to be in control of myself, not let other outside things direct me as to what i'm going to be doing. so i've always maintained work hard at the job you're in, and so i always figured, just work hard at being mayor. be a good mayor. and whatever happens in terms of opportunities that pop up or whatever you want to do, you can then do it. if you're a mayor and a very difficult task comes up, if you've got credibility and a depth of reserve of good will that you can sacrifice some of that good will to take on this very difficult task. and so i always felt, you just work hard at the job you're at. don't worry about having to keep your sight on where you're going to go in the future, because that can really -- you can stumble over something right in

front of you. >> that's such a simple, yet powerful, philosophy. where did that come from? do you recall anyone telling you that, or is that something that just evolved over time? >> in terms of the business, my dad used to always talk about that. in terms of -- he used to say, plan your work and work your plan. because he was always one who tried to make sure that, you know, you just don't do things willy-nilly, but that you had to be organized in how you go about doing things. his basic philosophy to me was always, plan your work and work your plan. so -- >> describe how you then decided to go for national office to become a congressman? how did that happen? >> purely by accident. in about the third week in january, 1974, quarter to 6:00 in the morning on a sunday, the

phone rings. i pick up the phone. hello? hey, norm, have you seen the paper? jimmy, it's quarter to 6:00 in the morning on sunday. of course, i haven't seen the paper. he said, charlie goobster is not going to seek reelection. charlie goobster was our member of congress. had been for 24 years. i said, that's nice. no, no, no, no. you've got to run. i said, jimmy, i announced in september of '73 that i was going to seek reelection in '74. we did a big fundraiser in october, tom bradley, the mayor

of l.a. came up, did a fundraiser for me, and we're on our way for reelection campaign. no, no, no, you've got to run for congress. i said, jimmy, go back to sleep. i'm going back to sleep. so i hung up on him and didn't think anything about it. well, 7:00 that night, the door bell rings, so i go open the door, and i look at this guy and say, mike, what are you doing here? he said, i don't know. jim told me to be here at 7:00 tonight. what did he tell you? he said, nothing. he just said be at norm's at 7:00. jim, unbeknownst to me had invited people to be there at 7:00 that night. people were knocking on the door, people were flying in. jim had gotten all these people together to come to the house, talking about -- >> when you say jim, who is that? >> jim bono was an attorney in san jose. and a close friend of mine. >> okay. >> and he just did this on his own. >> so continue the story. all these people. >> anyway, this is 1974, and this seat had been held by the

republicans for, i don't know, 48 years or something like that. and the question was, can a democrat win this congressional seat? and, you know, there was the fair housing act of 1964 on the ballot statewide. wilson riles was an african-american who ran for state superintendent of public instruction statewide and won. so the question was, if you take some of these maybe six or eight issues that had been on the ballot and sort of researched them, could we see whether or not this 13th congressional district could be won by a democrat? and -- but in those days, it

was, you know, before you were in microsoft and computers weren't even around, and you had to go in and say, okay, precinct 337. 100 voted in 1964 on proposition 13. you take down the numbers. you had to go through and recreate this thing on maybe eight issues over a 12-year period. so we had to have lots of people go to the registrar of voters to get all this information. well, that's what we ended up discussing that night. and my protestations were about, no, i'm running for mayor. and they were sitting there organizing, saying, what other issues do we need to take a look at? all these people were bent on me running for congress without me saying okay, i would consider

doing it. so it took them about five weeks to do this. we all got together again. they said, you know, there's a chance -- this is during the whole watergate issue that started bubbling up in '72,' 73, and by this time, this is february of '74, or march, and i think it was something like five days before the end of the declaration period. i said, i'm now running for congress, so if you feel inclined to do so, please feel free to send some money in. >> what made you decide to run? >> in looking at the figures and talking to family, talking to friends and, you know, they just encouraged me to do that.

and so -- but it was one of those things, again, where, you know, it's not something that even crossed my mind at some point that i would even think of running for congress. and so -- >> that was a pretty risky thing. the mayor was probably a pretty sure thing. >> it was. >> and here you're trying to go after a republican seat. >> and the thing is that there was a very well-known republican by the name of george million. a very fine individual. had been a member of the state assembly, his family ran a hotel in gilroy in the southern part of the district, and he had been appointed by president nixon to be the regional head for the environmental protection agency

in san francisco, and then from there, they moved him back to d.c. as assistant secretary of army for environmental affairs. so, i mean, he had a long political heritage, and so i knew it was going to be a tough race. but when you look at it, the population was mostly in the san jose, santa clara, saratoga los gatos area and went down to gilroy, but gilroy was also a lesser populated area, so his name recognition was much higher in that part of the district, so the whole question about, you know, who do we have to work with down in that area, and i remember one of the fines that we had was a person who used to support george mileas in other races for the state assembly on

the congressional race, and this fellow said, i'll support you. he was a very prominent fellow in gilroy and it was really a big boost when this fellow said, yeah, i'll support you. >> so how much did you win by this election? >> well, i had to get by the primary first. there were about, oh, eight or nine people in the primary. but i won the primary by -- i think it was 63%. and then in the general election, it was something like -- i won 51% and george got something like 39 or 40, and there is a peace and freedom and some other candidates in there

that made up the balance. >> so it was a solid win. >> it was about 51%. >> so at the time, you were the first japanese american -- >> mainland. dan, you know i had gone to congress in '59. >> that's right. mainland. at that point you were going in -- danny was the center -- >> nancy mick was there. spark was there as well. >> i'm going to jump ahead now and actually switch topics, but i wanted to ask you, when was the first time you heard about the topic of redress for japanese americans? >> there had been talk about it. edison muno had been talking about redress for quite a while. there was a lot of conversation

about redress. but it wasn't until the salt lake city convention of the japanese american citizens league in 1978 when the national convention adopted a one-sentence resolution that said that to undertake a legislative program seeking an apology in redress payment of $25,000 per individual interned during world war ii, and that was it. and that was adopted at that salt lake city convention. >> and were you at that convention? >> i was at the convention. i did not participate in any of the discussion. and, you know, people would say, what do you think? do you think we can get this passed? i don't know. i mean, that's a real long shot.

you know, i'm not sure we'll ever accomplish this. but i never got into the discussion on the floor of the convention. i was in a convention delegate. i was really there more as an observer. >> what were you thinking? you must have thought, okay, so this is going to fall into my lap pretty soon and they're talking about legislative talking about legislative action in office. what were you thinking? >> it wasn't until about september -- i don't recall when, september or october of

'78. the officers of the sale came back to meet the senator and myself, and bob had been elected to congress in '76. this is '78. so when we all assembled, i remember the first thing i said was [ japanese ] which is, we're in deep straits here, what do we do with this? so we had some real good conversations about them, and senator anoa said, you know, we're not going to get this passed until the american people know what happened. and once they know, then they will talk to their representatives and their senators and they will then get an idea about what went on. but until we get the public knowledgeable about this, we'll get nowhere on this issue. and he said there was the warren commission about the kennedy assassination, and those

commission reports, the hearings, went on for a long time. they were on the news every night, they issued the warren commission report. that was on news a lot. the commission report itself became a best seller. he says, that's what we've got to do. then he was talking about the kent state killings. and i've forgotten the name of that commission. but he talked about that commission. he said, unless we get the hot focus, the publicity, on evacuation, we're not going to get anywhere. so spark said, well, i've got a bill and maybe we can use that as a basis for this commission. i had a legislative director of a brilliant young kid named glen roberts, and his brother steve roberts was a reporter for the "new york times," and steve's

wife is cookie roberts with cbs. so, anyway, glen was sitting in on this meeting, and so he took sparky's bill on native hawaiian claims and converted that to what became the commission on wartime internment and relocation of civilians. and the commission bill passed and the commission was formed with president -- not truman -- carter appointing the commissioners. and they set out to work on it. the life of the commission under the original bill, i believe, was one year. we had to extend it to make it two years, and then i think it

was either '81 -- i think it was '81 or maybe '82 when the commission report came back. >> i want to go back. after the decision was made to pursue the commission path, when you would go back to san jose, what would people say to you about that decision? was that a controversial decision? >> it wasn't -- it was probably more benign. it was probably not so much controversial as it was, that's nice you're doing it, and that was t. because people just didn't think it was going to go anywhere. it was mission impossible. and, you know, you had a lot of people who -- i mean, core people who were very much in favor of pursuing this action, and so they were all hyped up, but i would say 90% could care

less, and maybe 20% were really -- this happened in '42. why are you bringing this up now? let's let it die. forget it. but that was a small group. maybe not even 20%. >> so tell me what the hearings did for you when they started in the various cities? were you able to attend any of them, or what was it like? >> i did, and it was just very, very moving. and -- but, you know, as we're putting together this commission bill, i wanted to make sure that we had prominent members of the congress. if i dropped the bill in, people were like, oh, that's self-serving. so i didn't want us to be in the forefront on this thing.

and so i wanted to make sure that we had judiciary committee members who were going to be considering this bill and committing tobacco -- to be co-sponsors and then i would call and talk to these people on a one-on-one basis about being a co-sponsor. then i talked to one fellow on the judiciary. he said, it's nice to have you here, norm. what do you have for me? so i said, tom, i've got this bill and it has to do with forming the commission, going back to the whole issue of evacuation and internment. he sort of looked off into the distance and said, yeah, i remember hearing about it.

i think my old boss somehow was involved in that. i said, really? what did you do? he said, well, i was in the general council's office at international paper company in ohio. but our washington, our senior vice president of government affairs was headquartered in washington, and i think he had something to do with it. i said, really? i said, what was his name? and he said carl bendetsen. and i thought to myself, oh, crap. here's the guy who engineered the evacuation and was the sob who put us in camp. i folded up my paper and said, tom, thanks for the time and left. glen and i walked out of there and went, oh, man. you talk about doing research and knowing who you're talking to about stuff, but, boy, we didn't know a thing about it.

but as soon as he said, carl bendetsen, i go, oh, man, just folded up my papers and said, thank you, tom, and walked out of there, and figured i would never get him as a co-sponsor. but we did that. i went to member after member. bob motsui did the same thing, going to members and getting them to sign up as a co-sponsor of the commission bill. >> an important one was jim wright also. >> jim wright was, at that point, the majority leader. no, i'm sorry, he was whip at the time. i went to ask him, and he was a fighter pilot in the south pacific, and he came home on leave in 1944, and then he heard about the camps and the japanese americans in the camps and all that. he said he thought to himself, that's not what i was fighting for in the south pacific. and he said at that time that at some point he wanted to do

something to correct that wrong. he said, that's not right. so when i got elected to congress, i got elected to the public works and transportation committee. jim wright, a congressman from texas, was on the public works and transportation committee, and we got to talking a lot and got to be good friends. and then he got elected to go up in the leadership. so on this bill, i went back to him and i said, jim, i really need your help. and then he told me about the loss of battalion and how the 447100 had lost a lot of blood to get to the rescue of the 100th battalion. he said, absolutely put me on the bill. i said, i'm not going to put you on the bill. i need you as the lead sponsor.

he said, fine, put me as the lead sponsor. so to have the number three in the democratic leadership as the lead sponsor on the bill was a big boost of -- you know, you could say, jim wright is on this bill. especially with these other members. and after the bill was passed and the commissioners performed and they had these national hearings across the country, i don't know how many hearings they had, maybe, i don't know, 20, 25. >> i want to go back. so after you had jim wright agree to that, what kind of reaction -- how did you feel when he decided to do that? >> it was just great. jim said he would sign on the bill. so, you know, just thanked him profusely, shook his hand. glen and i walked out of his home, out of his office. we didn't say a thing and just kept walking, turned the corner, we got into the elevator and we

got into the elevator going, yes! we got jim wright as a sponsor of the bill! and we were just sitting there inside the elevator by ourselves hugging and thinking, jim wright is on the bill with us, and it was really a big moment for us. >> because at that point did you start gaining confidence that this was going to really happen? >> it's one of those things you take things one step at a time. and so there were 435 members of congress, you want to get to as many as 218, you know, majority members, and on the commission bill, i think by the time we dropped it in, i think we probably had 120 -- before we dropped the bill into the legislative hopper, we probably had 125, 150 co-sponsors on the bill. because i really wanted to make it with a big bang and not

just -- a lot of times you drop a bill in with five co-sponsors or seven, whatever. but this one was something that we really had to make a big impact. so i wanted to make sure we got as many co-sponsors on the bill as possible. >> were there any other key congressmen during that time that played a role, like a barney frank or -- >> no, that was long before barney came on board. and we had a lot of opposition. dan lundgren from california, sam hall from texas and, you know, i said, sam, jim wright's on this bill. so, oh, okay. just oh, okay and walked away. >> when you say they opposed,

did they actively oppose? >> some of them -- i've forgotten who it was. somebody wrote -- i've forgotten who it was now, but rhoda -- we have this mechanism called dear colleague. we had somebody write a dear colleague, and there is a bill being circulated about forming a commission. this is a waste of taxpayer money. this happened in '42, on and on and on and on. but -- and i suppose it had some gravitas with somebody, but we were looking to try to get co-sponsors from those who we felt were sympathetic to the possibility of getting them as a co-sponsor on the bill and there are probably, you know, 150 people you'll never get no

matter what you do. those you just sort of discount. and so people who write dear colleagues, that appeals to them because it gives them a little more ammunition in their own quiver as to why they're in opposition to the bill. >> and meanwhile every announcement would be focused on that million-plus people because they're the ones that would really make a difference? >> sure. >> what year was this dropped in the hopper? >> we did that in '79. '78 was the resolution passed by jc l. '79 we did the research and in '80 we got the bill passed. and the commission report came back in '82, and, you know, jodi bernstein did a tremendous job as chair of that commission, and the general council for that

commission -- general counsel for that commission -- not hue mcdermott -- he was just tremendous. >> i'm blanking on it, too. >> he was just an amazing guy. but he and jody were really the ones who made it happen. and, you know, then the final commission report, it came out and said that there was a gross violation of the constitutional rights of people of japanese ancestry, and it said that redress -- an apology and

redress payment -- they recommended $20,000 -- should be made and that the reason the evacuation and internment occurred was because of historical racial discrimination, wartime hysteria and weak political leadership. and so it -- it brought everything together, all the loose ends, and it dealt with the magic cable issue. when people were saying, whoa, what about those magic cables? you could hold up the report and say, well, they studied that issue and it was a lot of

nonsense. so it really was tremendous. >> so you have this time period, so 1982, '83 you have this report, the final bill wasn't signed until 1988. so what was happening in that time period? >> well, first of all, we had to take the commission report and glen, again, went through that thing i don't know how many times. his wife kitty told me he would go to bed with the commission report. she said, he didn't go to bed

with me, he went to bed with the commission report. he just pored over that thing and pored over it and then translated that commission report into legislative language working with legislative counsel's office in the house of representatives, talking to the american bar association. glen just did a tremendous job in putting that thing together. so we had the elements of the bill, and so again, we had to line up the co-sponsors to jim wright, and by that time, jim wright was the majority leader in the house. and generally the majority leader in the house does not co-sponsor any legislation. and he said, norm, this is an exception, and i'm going to be associated with this. he said, put me as the lead sponsor. and so we then introduced it in that congress. and then, you know, legislation expires every two years, so in the new congress, we then had to

reintroduce the bill. so i want to a house parliamentarian and i said, i want to put hr 442 as a number of this bill. so how do i do that? >> how did you get that idea? >> you can't reserve a number but what you have to do is drop the bill in about the time the bill will come up, and as they stamp these bills, that will get the number of 442. so i went to the house parliamentarian, and i said, charlie, when should i drop this bill in because i want 442 on this bill. so he said, well, wait about, you know, ten days and then i'll

tell you when to drop the bill. and then as it comes through, i'll just hold it back and make sure we get 442. so charlie johnson was the house parliamentarian and he's the one who helped me get the number 442 on that bill. and then after that, you know, it took eight years to get it passed, so every two years i'd have to drop the bill in at the proper time to get hr 442 in the succeeding congress's for that legislation. >> there was a point in time when you went to the four congress and addressed the congressmen about this bill and talked about your family's experience. do you recall that and what you said? >> sure. well, the day this bill had gone through the committee, and

again, going -- this congressman sam hall who was opposed to the bill, and sam was elected with us in 1974 in the same class as i was, and he was in opposition to the bill. eventually he became the chairman of the subcommittee on the judiciary committee that was going to handle the bill. i thought, oh, no, man, we're never going to get it. this is going to be the graveyard for this bill. sam will never get the bill out. well, i kept pressuring him. i said, at least have hearings on the bill. so he would have hearings on the bill. but he made it very clear right from his opening statement that the bill wasn't going to go anywhere, and so president reagan appointed him to a

justice, and dan glickman from kansas came in as the judiciary subcommittee chairman. and dan was very helpful at moving the bill forward. but he was still reluctant to put the bill over the top. and then dan became chairman of the house agriculture committee, so he gave up that chairmanship. and then barney frank from new york became the chairman of that subcommittee. and i was really pleased, he being such a big civil libertarian. so i said, hey, congratulations

on becoming chairman. i've got a bill. he said, yeah, yeah, i know, the hr 442. we'll move it. we'll pass it. i said, oh, man, that's great. you're going to have a hearing on it? no, we don't need a hearing on it. so i thought, man, this is great. then he said -- came back and said, norm, there's one thing i've got to have a hearing on. i even forgot what it was, but he said i've got to have one hearing. i said fine. so he had the one hearing, passed it out of committee, peter rodino was chairman of the full committee and don edwards was a colleague of mine from san jose who was on the judiciary committee. so, anyway, peter had indicated rodino. he said, oh, yeah, yeah. he said, you know, you get this out of subcommittee, it will go right out on the full committee.

so that's why over the years, you know, we had to push on getting the subcommittee to take action. well, i knew sam hall wasn't going to move it with dan glickman it was going to move a little more, but with barney, it was most assuredly going to move forward. so then we got it through subcommittee, full committee and on to the house floor. jim wright, again, by that time was the speaker, and he said, norm, he said, i see the judiciary committee passed hr 442. they passed it maybe in about june of that year, 1978? >> 1980. 1980 --

>> the bill was signed in 1988, so this was 1987. and so jim wright said, i want that bill on the house floor on the 200th anniversary of the signing of the constitution. just thinking about it makes me cry now. and he said, i want you in the chair. he said, you'll be speaker pro tem. he gave up the chair as speaker of the house and had me as speaker pro tem chairing the house when we took up the bill. and it's a day i'll always remember. >> was it that day you gave your speech also? >> it was.

you know, my dad was -- he came to this country by himself at 14 years old. and i only saw him cry three times. once was the 7th of december because he couldn't understand why the land of his birth was attacking the land of his heart. 7 december. first time i ever saw him cry. second time i saw him cry was march 29, 1942. we were on the train moving out of san jose going to santa anita, the racetrack, the senate assembly we were going to. and i looked up and seats were facing each other with my dad, my mother, my sister and brother and me here.

and i looked up and saw these tears coming down from my dad. the third time was in 1956 when my mother passed away. those are the only three times i ever saw my dad cry. and so being on the floor that day, i talked about my dad and my mother. but it still had a long way to go. because even on the discussion on the floor, we had an amendment to take the payment part of it out. >> before you go on to that, what was the reaction from people after that day when they heard you talk about that? >> well, a lot of people told me afterwards what they had seen and changed their mind about the bill. they were thinking about voting against the bill, and bob motsui made a great statement. we had a number of people who

made great statements on the floor that day. peter rodino, the chairman of the committee, there was a republican congressman from new york -- hmm. i can picture him, ham fisher. congressman ham fisher from new york who gave a wonderful speech in support of the bill. and so it was a momentous day. >> so i know there are a lot of people that really worked hard to pass it. because of time, maybe you could share one or two stories about

some of the people who helped pass the bill. >> oh, man, you know, one thing about -- there are a lot of countries that call themselves democracies, but the thing that makes the democracy of the united states so distinctive from any other country in the world is that it requires citizen participation this thing kept on bubbling pup people working working at the

grassroots level all across the country. here is something that impacted on 123,000 people back in 1942. out of a population of 200 million people, who cares? you know, forget it. but yet this thing kept on bubbles up because people working at the grassroots level all across the country. and so there were just a lot of people. i remember from seattle, kenoshta terry, being one of those who was always agitating for citizen groups to get involved in this thing. and frankly, there were some of these groups that -- who were also lambasting me for taking the legislative approach. bill horridge ripped me a new one. he thought i was a sellout. he thought my brother-in-law mike was a sellout.

he said, you know, he said he is the one who put us in camp. give me a break. and so i mean we were having to swim against the tide too within the community. and some of the, frankly, awful things that horridge said about jcl, mike, dr. tommy, masano, and against those of news the congress who were pushing the legislative approach, it was not -- it was not a -- even for people like cherry kinoshta and there was a citizen group in san jose outside some of these other groups. they were having to speak in opposition to other nisei groups

were doing. so it's hard to point out individuals. as we -- after we had passed the bill and the senate had passed the bill, and there was some talk about president reagan vetoing the bill. and there was a fellow by the name of grant ujifusa, and grant was an editor with the reader's digest. and we were talking about this. and i said you know, grant, we're not over the hill on this thing. and he said well, you know, governor tom kane of new jersey is going to be with president reagan, and he is going to be in the car with him for about an hour. suppose we brief governor kane about this bill and have him talk to president reagan about it, and not veto the bill. so i said that would be great. so we pull all that material together, and grant went to see governor kane.

and convinced him that in this conversation, he is in the president's car, that he should talk to president reagan about it. so we did that. also, remember when president reagan was captain reagan, he was there when is it sergeant masuda couldn't be buried in his own hometown cemetery. so captain reagan was at the burial of captain -- i mean of sergeant masuda, even though it wasn't in his hometown grave. wherever he got buried, captain reagan was there. so we had someone else remind the president of that occurrence. and in fact i think there is a picture of him at that cemetery or at the funeral service. and they even gave him a picture

of that to remind him. but it was really governor kane >> so thoen then we were all at the seattle convention in 1988. and we got word that tomorrow morning, the president is going to sign the bill. . >> he's going to sign the bill? and we're all sitting in seattle. so everyone making airplane reservations. and we call the white house and said he can't just sign the bill. this has to be a public ceremony. and we'll all fly out and we'll get everyone there. so they said, okay, we'll make it a signing ceremony. and they said we'll do it at 11:00 in the morning. so everyone was flying -- just racing around trying to get reservations on the airplane to

get from seattle washington to washington, d.c. everyone on the red eye and we all get to the white house and we're all bleary-eyed and we're all there watching the ceremony that president reagan signed the bill. there's a picture of the president signing the bill. i said hey, pat, look at that signature there. that was my signature on the bill as speaker protestimony on what they call the redline copy of the bill that the president signs because president pro tem of the u.s. senate, me as speaker pro tem of the u.s. house and president reagan signing the bill. and then you know i thought where he says but only in a country like the united states could this -- something like

this happen. >> that's good. later on in your career, you were secretary of transportation right after -- or during the territory act of 9/11. and i'm curious to know because you were there a critical role at that time, if your work during redress ever played a role in how you thought about how to protect our country after 9/11. >> well, there's no question that right after september 11th they were saying, you know, take all of these arab americans and muslims and put them in camp. and i'm, like, i don't believe this. what am i hearing? so as we were putting together

the skoourt measures and aviation security was in the department of transz poration and so on september 12th there was a cabinet meeting and it was with the members of the democratic republican leadership from the dock. congress. he said mr. president we have a very large population of arab americans in michigan and they're very concerned about what's happenings.

they're very concerned about some of the security measures that might be taken relating to transportation. and the president said david, you're absolutely correct. we are also concerned about this. we want to make sure what happened tho norm in 19d 42 doesn't happen today. that was on wednesday, the next day, september 12th. so i got back and told my staff about it. i said one of the things we're going to have to make sure we do is no racial profiling.

i never went back to the white house to clear it. that monday was also the day the president met with arab americans and muslims at the muslim islamic study center in d.c. and the 39d asked me to go with him. he told them. he said, we know who the terrorists are. they're not loyal arab americans. they're not faith fulful followers of the islamic religion. so anyway, we proceeded along this line. and, in the meantime anne

bulger and malki nrksz and then towards the end of september; there was a killing in tucson. they said why did you shoot and kill this guy? they said because he looked like the enemy. but he was a shake. he had a turbine and beard. right after that, the president said we are going to pursue

nibble who commits hate crimes. in january i spoke to the largest dinner i've ever spoken to. tlfgs a group in detroit called access. arab american cultural community education social services. i think that works out to access. i spoke to about 4,000 people at a dinner at cobo hall in detroit

on this whole issue of what happens in a post-9/11 and the development of the security measures and the no racial profiling rule. it was just a stunning audience. great group. largest group i've ever spoken to at a dinner. 4,000 people there. >> i'm guessing i'd have to imagine that they were so appreciative that you were in the position you were making those decisions. >> there's the aent deaf magsz, arab american antidefamation league. and that night at that access dinner, i got an award from though.

for the stand that i took september 11th. >> well, we're out of time. i actually took more than i sapd i would. this has been an incredible interview. thank you so much for your time. i so appreciate it. >> thanks. >> with live coverage of the u.s. house on c-span and the senate on c-span 2. here, on c-span three, we compliment that cover rang by showing you the latest on public affairs e vebts. blank wlankogram.

>> sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q & a. time now for "american history tv" prime time. this is a special showing of programs normally seen weekends here on c-span 3. ahead, a look at japanese internment during world war ii. we begin with real america and a 1944 documentary on the living conditions that internment camps. and then lectures in history with a course on how the press handled the japanese internment. that will be followed by an american art factyifacts program. and later, former congressman norman minetta who was in a camp with his family. each week, american history