nd artillery attacks and so forth, the positions in the eastern rebel-held area are strengthening and last point is countries around the world are watching how reliable a friend we are. and i'm concerned this has tremendous detrimental effects, encouraging putin's aggression and discouraging countries to be friends of the united states because we're sitting here ringing our hands and providing a few blankets and what not. i don't think that is a good way to go. i realize this has turned into a white house call but it does -- and i'm sorry last point is there is tremendous bipartisan support in both the house and the senate for providing this assistance. and i really think the administration is isolated on this issue and that is also something that is not good for the country. i'll -- unless you have something you want to add, i don't want to cut you off.

>> i would simply say that from personal observation, i was in bud a pest in 1994 when the agreement was signed that the russians have violated, so i'm very alive to the -- the possibility that we had then and i think still need to stick up for of independent ukraine able to find its own way politically and economically is the only thing i would say. in the first instance it is terribly important that that occurment and occur. and the other thing i will say is that nobody should mistake that ukraine is a very important country to us. it is not a nato ally and i just want to make the point that as far as nato allies are

concerned, that raises a whole other set of issues that i hope anyone who is considering encroaching upon a nato ally takes very seriously. >> well i hope so too. i'll be traveling to that region shortly and talking with some of those folks about it. >> thank you for doing that. >> thank you all for being here, mr. secretary. welcome back general dempsey. you're going to miss us when you're gone. >> yes, sir. >> thank you all for being here. with that, the hearing stands adjourned. deputy secretary of state anthony blanken will update on negotiations with iran. this comes as a deadline nears for the p5 plus 1 countries to reach an agreement with iran. live coverage starts at 5:30 on

c-span 2 and here watch live coverage on the republican budget at 1030 a.m. eastern. now isis rears their ugly head and this army is very shaky. we shouldn't be surprised by that. you can't undo decades of soviet era and saddam era stuff with eight years. especially when you've taught them on a model where they'll have u.s. advisers and partners with them. if afghanistan according to the president announcement, we have 10,000 troops in an advising training role but we'll draw down to 5,000 troops and zero after that and i warn we'll see a similar result when isis attacks. that is going to be shaky. >> daniel bulger on the failed

strategies in iraq and afghanistan and what we should have done differently, sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q&a. up next a senate panel investigated inaccurate government records. officials from the social security administration testify about errors in what is known as the death master file. we're hear from a woman listed as deceased by social security. wisconsin senator ron johnson chaired the homeland security and governmental security. >> in particular we have an interesting witness who has certainly been the victim of inaccuracy in our death master file and miss judy rivers from logan, alabama and i have to say i read your testimony and i would recommend everybody reading the full testimony, it is quite the story. but i was struck by -- very early on. you made the statements often

been said that washington, d.c. is the capital of unintended consequences and we're going to see that here today. but i would like to say that we're going to start off with miss rivers testifying and then i will offer every senator a opportunity to ask one question. no statements. and we are time constrained. this is a powerful testimony of unintended consequences. but i have a written only statement which i will enter into the record with no objection and i would like to turn it over to our ranking member carper which is the yo man that has been trying to correct improper payments on the federal government and i'll turn it over to you. >> thank you for pulling this together and to our witnesses for joining us today. as you know, the work i've done on improper payments i've done

with tom coburn whose birthday was this weekend. he's retired and i know he is here in spirit with us today because he bear -- cares about the money we're leaving on the table. and william sutton he said why do we go after the banks that, where the money is and why do we go after improper payments are that is where the money is. and we still have a big budget deficit. and it is still too much. we have a debt about $18 trillion, when agencies are facing tight budgets and facing sequestration we can't afford making $125 million in improper payments like we apparently made last fiscal year. this represents an almost $19 billion increase over the last year. $19 billion increase after going down for a number of years, an increase of $19 billion. this comes from over 70 programs

and more than 20 agencies in programs from medicare to medicaid to the department of defense and if we're going to get a better handle on our debt and improve american's impressions of how we care for the money, then we need to sharpen our pencils and stop making the expensive avoidable mistakes that lead to wasteful spending that make us-- lead us to abuse. and improper payments were addressed through legislation that were in the house in 2002 and the act requires agencies to address the level of improper payments made each year. in 2010 dr. coburn followed up with the recovery act which expanded the requirements for agencies to identify and prevent and to recover improper payments. in 2012 senator susanzanne collins and scott brown and i went further and recovery improvement act.

building off of very good initiative of the administration, the law made the president's do not pay program designs to screen all federal payments in order to double check basic eligibility requirements. simply put do not pay allows a government agency to check whether someone should be paid before the government pays them. i think that is common sense. hope to have a discussion with our witnesses today, especially our witnesses from omb and jo about how all of the legislative issues are working and are not working and what additional measures we should consider and we'll spend time discussing the specific problems of agencies paying people to people who are actually deceased. for example the office of personal management inspector general reported that $600 million were made to those found to have died over five years and this is not unique to this one program and including the collection and use of federal agencies of data on individuals that died will help curve

millions to billions of dollars in improper payments. i'm actively working with the chairman and our colleagues on this committee to reintroduce legislation from the last session to tackle the problem of improper payments to dead people. unfortunately we have more work ahead. last week the social security inspector general released a report stating that 6.5 million people have active social security numbers who based on the social security own records would be more than 112 years old. i think maybe in our country we've had just a handful of people actually live that long. now we're told it could be 6.5 million. i'm not sure where they are, but they are out there. maybe not. in fact in 2000 the records reviewed by the inspector general showed living individuals with active social securities born before the civil war and only 35 people worldwide

are 112 and old. and we're here about the social security administration about accurate information about who is alive or dead and however that -- what should be an extremely concerning to us is that an inaccurate death data may lead to improper payments by many other agencies across the government and also creates greater vulnerability for fraud and identity theft. we'll hear more about this problem and opportunities for solutions from today's witnesses. i want to make clear my view that the administration deserves credit for the initiatives to curb waste and fraud as general mader will describe and we have to use more and we have to use every tool to put our fiscal house back in order to give the people the government they deserve and it is the right thing to do on behalf of the taxpayers who trust us with our hard-earned money. and the preamble speaks about for a more perfected union and

we should strive for a more perfected union and with that spirit i look forward to working with our chairman and our colleagues in and without the committee on reducing improper payments. thank you so much. >> thank you senator carper. it is the tradition that we swear in witnesses so if you all stand and raise your right hand. do you swear the testimony you will -- give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god. thank you. our first witness this afternoon will be miss judy rivers. she's a private citizen from logan, alabama. twice been mistakenly listed as deceased by the federal government. today she'll tell story and the impact the errors have on innocent taxpayers. and i have to commend you for being willing to go public with your trials and tribulations and hopefully your story can help prevent this from happening to

other americans so we look forward to your testimony. >> thank you. >> would you turn on your microphone, ma'am. >> there you go. i was told to do that. now, first of all good afternoon, chairman johnson, ranking member carper, pardon me and distinct wish members of this committee. thank you for inviting me to speak. my name is judy rivers and i've twice been listed on the death master file. the first incidents occurred in 2001 and it was actually fairly painless because first of all, i had no idea that it actually happened. i had a couple of identity theft situations, someone forced money through my bank and i never heard of the death master file and we got those cleared up and i continued on. the second occurrence happened

during one of the last -- worst periods of my life. i had just spent 17 months taking care of two terminally ill parents and i think i was probably at one of the lowest points of my life at that time. so this situation did not help anything. i could never have imagined i would reach the point of hopelessness homelessness and the natural defendantitiusion and loss of credibility and unable to find an apartment a student loan or even buy a cell phone without a social security number you can do nothing in the united states. suspected as an identity thief became a way of life for me. during the last five years, every h.r. person that i've interviewed with police have who pulled me over for perhaps going a little too fast, the first thing they do is go

through your records put you through a file and when you come up as deceased or that the insurance actually -- they don't know if it belongs to you or not, then a lot of questions start. and it becomes extremely uncomfortable. i would like to make it clear that all of the problems that i've had during the past five years are not only as a direct result of the death master file. however, the death master file has been like a propagating hide rant underneath all of my problems so every single problem that i had the death master file situation and the fact that i did not have an identity made everything worse. it started when i was providing full time care to my parents as i said. when my parents passed away their home was sold and i it to relocate very, very quickly. and in my entire life since the age of 17 i have supported myself, put myself through

school i have never not had a job, not worked owned my own firm for 30 something years and really have been very blessed in that area. so when i start looking for a job and apartment and i'm not able to get one, it is like wait a minute what is going on here. everywhere i searched everywhere i applied, i was turned down. finally i had to leave my parents home quickly so i contacted an old friend and asked if i would borrow a spare room for a few weeks. that few weeks turned into three months. unfortunately his landlord asked me to leave at that point because i was not on the lease. so i again went apartment searching. again, the question of my validity, my credibility and the fact that my social security number did not check out, i was unable to find an apartment anywhere. after searching for a period of three weeks and with no choice

and with something that i thought really only happened on television, quite frankly, hi to move into my car. i did some research on the internet and got basic information on how to do that and got the best places to park such as a truck stop for protection so my two puppies and i lived in my car for 3 1/2 months. during that time i was constantly searching for a room and apartment. i kept going out further in the areas of alabama, such as logan, in order to find someone that probably didn't check that closely but was still unsuccessful. my situation improved after i ran into an old friend named mary kate. mary kate had an apartment -- excuse me a business building and the top of it she converted to an apartment and knowing my parents very well and being sympathetic to my situation she offered the apartment to me.

i was in the apartment two hours later, after the apartment -- after the approval. it was huge, it was empty and i felt like i was living in a castle at the moment. no bed no chair no sofa, no nothing, because you will of my furniture was in dallas where i was living when my parents became ill. so she brought me some houseware items and some towels and i was one very happy person. during that period of time, while i lived there, i continued my search for a job. i continued my search for a student loan -- a student loan. i had reviewed what was available on the internet and decided i needed to increase my skills particularly in the area of project management so i applied to over 20 online schools and three physical schools for a student loan in order to take the courses and

get my certification. every one turned me down. the information that i received when i asked why i was being turned down always included comments such as your information cannot be verified, your social security number did not match, or we can't find your records. finally becoming concerned, i went to my local ssa office and asked them to check my records to see if i was in the files and if everything was fine. they did a very fast check and said, no, your records are all in order and everything is fine and yeah, you are alive. and i said, well could there be a mistake in the past? and i was informed at that time that we can't check the past. if you had been listed at some time when the new files are created on a weekly basis and sent out your name would have been removed. and we don't retain those. so there was really no way for them to tell me if i had been

listed or if i hadn't been listed. but since everything was in order, it was fine and i thought that i was fine. my situation at that point went from bad to worse. the apartment building that i had lived in and this was approximately a year and a half later, a fire code made it necessary for me to leave. as an office building it only had one entrance and exit which was not acceptable in the walker county area at that time. again, went on an apartment search and no luck and so unfortunately, one more time hi to move back into the car again. it was beginning to become a habit. the next thing that happened to me in march -- excuse me -- 2010, i involved in a car accident. a lady hit me rear-ended me while i was sitting at a red light.

i didn't feel anything, hear anything. i woke up in the hospital a few days later and was told that i had seven vertebrae that were in pretty bad shape. they also kept asking me all of these questions and there was a lot of confusion about my insurance, whether i owned the car that i was in whether i really was who i said i was. so i called an attorney, turned everything over to a legal firm and said whatever is happening, please get me out of this. i went home -- excuse me i want to say home, i meant the car. i went back to the car, started researching the dmf and frankly trying to find anyone that could help me. during that time, just for your information, i contacted the internal revenue service, the social security administration, fcra, everyone that i could think of and every name that

came up in my searches for any information or any help. no agency could offer me any help. the first person that i spoke to that offered me any type of in sight was pax dixon and nina olson, both of great help to me in providing any information and advice on what to do. nothing to do -- no apartment and still no job, still unable to find any kind of job. a couple at my church found out my situation and offered me a camper they had on their property in which to live. i graciously and humbly accepted the invitation and said i will only be here for a few months and then i'll be out of your hair. well, actually i'm still there. the good thing out of it is the fact these people have become very close to me and they are very close to parents. they have taken me into their family and i've really enjoyed knowing them. i will tell you that living in a

camper and especially with two puppies is not a lot of fun. but i had to do that. the only work i've actually been able to obtain is work such as cleaning houses and care giving. and very candidly, coming from an executive position with a six-figure income, not something you like but something you do when you have to do it. one of the problems with the dmf really frankly, it is a bad data base that paves a way for billions of dollars identity theft, tax fraud, health care fraud, medical theft for both the living and the deceased and the united states government. it seldom goes away when it hits you, as has been my experience. the problem is when you get one area cleared up, such as one credit reporting agency or one banking institution or a report, the problem is, someone calls in

for a report and when they are on the phone, and i've listened to this happen, they say, well, this woman has applied for 23 credit cards in a period of four years. no one needs that many credit cards. she can't be honest. so then you are right back on the death list again. and nothing goes forward. so it is just a matter of every time you get one spot solved, it pops up somewhere else. you get one school to approve a loan two weeks later, you get a notice because they've contacted other people and they have denied the loan. so from a standpoint of trying to handle the entire situation, i really have -- this time have not figured out a way to control the traffic. and i would like to say this, i had contacted all tree cra's the major ones the banking financial institutions that provide information, only one

company in a period of three years ever responded to me. they didn't answer a phone call, they didn't answer a letter. so i had no idea what was going on and where. finally, i contacted mr. ron pearl holts who started the dmf. ron and his brother robert made several conference calls with me and checked their data bases and they told me that i had been listed in january of 2001. and finally chex systems contacted me and sent me a letter saying they reported me as deceased and the information they received was directly from the social security administration and that i was listed as dead in 2008. they did not provide the month, however. so i found out where the information was coming from but i didn't find any way to stop it, even though i had been

removed from the death master file. so what i am hoping and what i don't understand is that just in the research i've done, i've seen over 20 hearings in the senate and in congress on the death master file so far i've seen nothing come out of any of these hearings. what i am hoping is that you will create a program that will first of all provide help for victims, because we've got nowhere to go. secondarily, that you will either stop distributing the data base or find a way to toss it out and start it over again and rebuild it and do it correctly and have zero mistakes and thank you very much for having me here. i appreciate it. and please, do something for the government and do something for the victims. >> well, thank you miss rivers. very powerful testimony and

obviously that is the goal of this committee hearing, is to try and work toward solutions so this doesn't happen to another american. my question is so you've been removed from the death master file. was that prompted by your action? do you know when that occurred or have you just found out that it just happened? >> actually and you'll find this a bit funny, i only found out that it happened in the last couple of weeks, that i was actually listed on the death master file in 2008. chex systems had -- the one person that answered my letter sent me a letter dated august 22nd. the reality is i was still sending them correspondence in october and further. but in this letter, it stated that they had reported me as deceased upon information received from the social security administration and that i had died in 2008.

>> but there wasn't a process of you working with the social security administration where you fill out some forms and you knew that your name was removed from the death master file? >> yes, sir. >> you did go through that process? >> several times. >> but you only just found out that you've been removed? >> yes, sir, i had the letter but since the letter said send us your information and we'll do an investigation, i missed the part that they said, we did report you as deceased in -- and they did tell me the year, we did report you as deceased and based on the information from social security, you died in 2008. and then asked me to send them information and they would do an investigation. >> okay. we'll ask some of those questions of our other witnesses. and again, i would encourage everybody to read miss rivers' full testimony. it is a powerful story. senator carper. >> thank you so much for joining

us. i apologize for what you've had to go through. somebody needs to. >> thank you, and i just want. >> and i just want to need to apologize. on a lighter note. i asked a friend of mine, tell me about this death master file what is it and he said with tongue and cheek he said it is a file on which you don't want your name to appear because if it does, you're dead. and as it turns out, not always. not always. you're living proof that it doesn't always happen that way. if you had to go through this over again knowing what you know now, what would you do differently? and again, what specifically would you suggest that we do? every one of us has constituent services team in our states and they are to help people with problems and we are called every day and if you been in a citizen of delaware and you would have called my office or carney, if

you would have called us we would have been all over this. keep that in mind. what should we do differently having heard your testimony? >> right at this moment, other than flying up to washington and sitting in the social security administration office until i found some answers, i don't know what i would have done differently. having been in the marketing and communications and business development area for 35 years when i found out what was happening, i sat down and created a marketing plan for myself. and i'm very thorough in that area. letter campaign to companies all over -- all over the united states. i contacted everyone in the system that i could think of. i searched for companies and i found that one thing is, if i had experienced a major identity theft at the beginning, i would have been much better off

because at that point i would have been alerted, i could have filed a police report and somebody would have started investigative -- investigativing. but at the point i was, very candidly, nobody took it serious seriously. >> and what should we do differently, the people here that serve you and all 50 states. >> regarding the dmf totally? >> to make sure this doesn't happen to other folks in our country given what you've learned? >> well, as you mentioned, i think the data base needs to be cleansed thoroughly. i think an agency should be put in charge of it that actually can control it. also i think the sources from which the information is obtained should be clarified. i think very strong regulations should be placed on the agencies that are distributing this information because one of the regulations is verify the information before it is used.

i was listed twice and no one ever contacted me and of all of the people i talked to, no one has ever contacted them. the first thing i would do immediately is i would develop a complete communications program for people both living people that have been listed as -- mistakenly and individuals of families that have been deceased and the deceased person has been used for tax fraud identity theft, draining the bank account, et cetera. these people have nowhere to go either. and they hurt just as badly as i do. but there is not one website, not one place to call, there is no one that knows anything. i visited 18 separate social security offices. out of those 18 only 12 knew what the death master file was. so even within the social security system, the word is not getting through. these people need to be trained to provide information.

>> senator langford, one question. >> just a point of interest for me how did you prove you're alive? what documents did you have to bring in and the final shift on it when you finally had the opportunity to be able to explain to someone this is really me and i'm still alive what were you asked to show to verify that? >> social security administration asked for your birth certificate, if you have, driver's license, a photograph i.d. they would like to have copies of in voices or correspondence that you've received either at your place of business or your home. a copy of check stubs. everything single thing that you have to prove that you are you and all of that same material i included in every package that i sent out to every company that i

contacted. >> thank you. >> senator peters, one question. >> thank you, mr. chairman. quite compelling testimony miss rivers. i feel bad for you and apologize that you've gone through this. and i'll get to the bottom of this. this is not the first time i've heard of this case. we had a case in michigan this year with a marine listed as dead twice and lost veterans benefits and had the treasury department close his account and a whole host of difficulties. so unfortunately there are others in this situation and not just yourself. just a question as far as the time line. you mentioned in 2008 is where you learned you were listed as dead but you also mentioned that you went to the social security administration and they told you everything was okay, not to worry. was that -- where was that in the sequence of events and when did the record actually get cleared or is this something that you get constantly put back on the list, if you could

clarify that for me? >> let me step back and clarify one thing. i didn't learn that i decease -- was deceased in 2008. 2008 was when the problems started happening but i wasn't aware of what was causing them. that is what caused me to go to the social security office. the first time i found out i was listed as deceased was after my accident the insurance company settled and i went to a new bank and opened an account. and they were happy to open an account to take my money when i went back three days later to open a savings account, they ran me through the system, the bank manager came over and ran me through the system and said we can't help you today. and i said why not. and she said because information we have reported you as deceased. and i demanded to know who was reporting the information and also where it was coming from and supposedly what date i died.

they absolutely refused to tell me anything. bylaws and under fcra i thought i was entitled to that information, however the bank refused to give it to me and when later i found out chex systems provided that information, they still refused to provide me with anything. so april of 2010 was when i found out i was on the death master file. >> and is that when you went to the social security administration. >> i had already gone. >> and they told you repeatedly you were okay. >> each time. >> and it was clear you were not okay. and you were being given inaccurate information even though you were going into the office. >> correct. >> thank you. >> again, miss rivers thank you for your testimony. i think every member of this committee offers an apology and our commitment that we'll work with the people in the agencies to try and create law, create

legislation that will prevent this from happening to another american. so thank you again for your testimony and you are dismissed. thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> our next witness is sean brune and he joins us from the social security administration where he is a senior adviser for budget finance, quality and management. mr. brune. >> thank you chairman johnson ranking member carper and members of the committee. thank you for inviting me to discuss steps to strengthen the integrity of federal payments. i'm sean brune senior adviser to the deputy commissioner for finance budget quality and management at the social security administration. my remark focus on death information, accuracy and how we share it with other agencies. we collect death information to stop paying social security benefits when they have died and

to pay benefits to survivors. each year we post 2.8 million death reports primarily through funeral homes and states. this information serves us well, preventing around $50 million in improper payments each month. over the years we have significantly improved our death information collection process and this information is highly accurate. the millions of reports we receive annually, less than one half of 1% are subsequently corrected. still we continually strive to improve the accuracy of our records. since 2002, we have worked with states to increase the use of electronic death administration, or edr. edr automates the death reporting process be enables states to verify the name and social security number of a deceased individual against our records before they issue a death certificate or transmit a report of death to us. thus, death information reported

through edr is the most accurate possible. currently lyly lyly 37 states new york and the district of columbia provide reports to us through edr and we are providing a redesign of our reporting system to make it more sufficient. and it is important not only for the administration of our programs but because we share the information with other agencies and with the public as a result of the lawsuit brought to us under the freedom of information act, we must share death information we collect and maybe tain from nonstate sources. we do so by distributing information through the department of commerce. in sharing this public file. subscribers are informed and have been informed for many years that ssa does not have a death record for all persons and cannot guarantee the veracity of the file and the absence of a

particular person is not proof that that person is alive. the department of commerce is authorized to share non-state death information on an immediate basis with entities that have a legitimate business person for a fraud prevention interest for such information however under the bipartisan budget act of 2013 the public may only access non-state death information that is at least three years old. congress put this restriction into place to ensure that fraudsters could not use a deceased person's personally identifiable information to seek fraudulent tax refund. we are limited in our ability to share state death information. specifically under the social security act we may share death administration for agencies administering federally funded benefits thus we share all of our death information, including state records, with the centers for medicare and medicaid services, the department of

defense, and the internal revenue service, among others. treasuries do not pay portal is an important part of the administration's efforts to fight improper payments and allows federal agencies to carry out a review of available data bases with relevant information on eligibility before they release federal funds. however, under current law we cannot provide state death information to the department of treasury for purposes of do not pay. to remedy this, the fiscal year 2016 president's budget includes a legislative proposal that would authorize us to share all of the death information we maintain with do not pay. we note that s-614 introduced by ranking member carper and co-sponsored by johnson and recently considered by this committee addressed this gap. we would be happy to provide technical assistance to this committee on the bill. we would also ask congress to support the department of health

and human services request for funding to increase participation in edr. because death reports collected through edr are eyely accurate, we believe that universal adoption of edr would be the single most effective step in ensuring that our death reports of the highest quality. additionally i hope you will support the robust package of integrity proposals proposals that will help detect, prevent and recover improper payments included in the president's fiscal year 2016 budget proposal. finally i would like to recognize the work of our office of in spector general. most recently when they looked at death information in decades old records. we are pleased they found no fraud in the social security program or no other federal program. we have agreed with 28 of the 31 recommendations made in this area over the past few years.

as i explain in my written statement, these recommendations have led to enhancements in our systems. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss this very important issue. i would be happy to answer any questions you may have. >> thank you mr. brune. our next witness is patrick o'carroll jr. the inspector general for the social security since 2004 and also has 26 years of service for the united states secret service. >> good afternoon chairman johnson and ranking member carper and members. thank you for the opportunity. my office investigatives social security misused. but one stands out. a man opened two accounts for people born in 1886 and 1893. we can safely assume these people who today would be 129

and 122 years of age are deceased. however, according to ssa data base of social security number holders these people are alive. they are living in the sense that ssa does not have dates of death for either person or number holder records. our auditors followed up and found these two records were anything but unique. we recently recorded that 6.5 million people whose social security records indicate they are over 112 years old do not have a data death on the social number record. without a date of death on the ssa data base these people do not appear on the agency death master file. i should note that none of the aged number holders are improperly receiving social security benefits and overpayments are not occurring but thesein accuracy create a significant void in the ssa death data available to the public. we recommended that ssa update the discrepancies in our report.

this aud sit relevant to today's discussion on improper payments because benefit payments like ssa and irs use the death master file to verify deaths and ensure payment accuracy. additionally as the committee knows the improper payment and elimination and improvement act of 2012 included a do not pay provision which requires federal agencies to review lists of deceased or ineligible individuals before making payments. the death master file is one of those lists. to identify and prevent its own and other agency's improper payments, ssa must collect and maintain accurate death records. it is equally important to make sure living individuals are not listed as deceased in ssa records. there are less than 1,000 cases each month in which a living individual is mistakenly included on the death master file. ssa said it moves consider quickly to correct the information when these occur.

the agency reports it has not included past data use but these errors can lead to remature benefit termination and social security under payment and cause financial hardship and distress to those effected. i've addressed in my written statement recent actions that limit personal information on ssa death records and will delay the public release of death data through the death master file. we believe these actions could mitigate some of the issues i just mentioned. ssa must accurately process the death reports it receives to terminate payments to deceased beneficiaries and avoid overpayments. in several audits we've estimated ssa has paid millions of dollars to beneficiaries after their deaths. based on our audits and recommendations, ssa now matches and corroborates the records with records every month and exchanges data with hhs to identify deceased beneficiaries

based on enrollment but nonusage of medicare. these initiatives have improved the ssa ability to process benefit terminations due to death, recover overpayments and referral gagss of deceased payee fraud to our office. last year we investigated over 600 people for deceased payee fraud. these are cases of individuals who conceal someone's death to illegally collect someone's social security benefits. criminal convictions of about 150 people and $55 million in recovery restitution and projected savings. in one example a woman collected her mother's social security and federal civil service benefits for 35 yearsar her mother -- after her mother died. this was identified through the medicare nonutilization project and referred to us to investigative. last year the woman was sentenced to house arrest and ordered to pay $350,000 to the

ssa and omp. this is a high investigative priority. cases of fraud can lead to significant government recovery in savings and federal prosecution help deter others from committing this crime. before i conclude i want to acknowledge that our auditors and special agencies outstanding work on this topic has garnered national media attention. we are pleased that our efforts are making an impact on these issues but i speak for my staff that we don't do this work to make headlines but we continue to do it to make sure the integrity of the ssa programs and to promote public confidence in social security and the federal government. this is and always will be our effort and we'll continue to address the issues discussed today. thank you for the ability to testify and i'll be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you. our next witness is mr. mader from the office of management and budget.

he held various positions at the irs from 1971 to 2003. and then ten years in private sector before rejoining the federal service. mr. mader. >> thank you chairman johnson ranking member carper and distinguished members of the committee for inviting me today to discuss the federal governments ongoing efforts to prevent and reduce and recapture improper payments. i appreciate the opportunity to provide an update on this important topic. our partnership with the congress consultation with gao and the important support of the ig community over the years has been vital to our efforts. addressing improper payments is a central component of this effort to eliminate waste fraud and abuse when the president took office in 2009 the improper payment rate was 5.2%, an all-time high and since then the administration working together with the congress has made progress by strengthening the accountability and transparency

through annual reviews by inspector generals and expanded requirements for high priority programs such as the requirement to report supplemental measures and program information on payment accuracy.gov. as a result of this concerted effort in 2013 we reported an improper rate of 3.53%. during fiscal year '14 we experienced an improper rate increase in major programs including medicaid, fee for service, earned income tax credit and medicaid and unemployment insurance. over the same period other major programs experienced improper payment rate decreases, including medicare part c, supplemental nutrition and assistance program and public housing rental assistance. as a net, these changes resulted in a government-wide improper payment rate of 4.02% or $125

billion. notwithstanding this agencies recovered roughly $20 billion in overpayments through payment recapture audits and other methods in 2014. while progress has been made over the years, the time has come for a more aggressive strategy to reduce levels of improper payments than we are currently seeing. that is why the administration has proposed to make a significant investment in activities to ensure that taxpayer dollars are spent by expanding oversight in the largest programs and increasing investments. over the years the administration has worked with the congress on legislation regarding this topic. and these laws have provided agencies with new tools and tuck sneaks to prevent reduce and recover improper payments. the president's fy-16 budget provides the opportunity to build on this congressional support and administration activities to reduce improper

payments. there is compelling evidence that investments in administrative resources can significantly decrease the rate of improper payments and recoup many times their initial investment. examples of proposals in the fy-16 budget include a robust package of medicaid and medicare program integrity proposals, strategic reinvestments in the irs, a robust program integrity proposals, a proposal to expand the department of labor initiative to conduct reemployment and eligibility assessment and reemployment services and improving further the accuracy of the death master file by sharing across multiple agencies. in addition, and this began long before we knew what the improper payment rate was going to be for the fiscal year the office of management and budget issued an appendix to the circular on internal controls entitled

requirements for effective estimation and remediation of improper payments. and agencies were instructed to reexamine improper payment strategies on a number of fronts government-wide. the new guidelines were issued in october of 2014 and provide strategies for agencies and inspector generals to key in on improper pages. in addition to these government-wide initiatives on february 26th of 2015, the director of omb sent letters to agency heads for four organizations, d.o.l., h.h.s., s.s.a. and treasury that have the largest priority programs. this direction requires the early implementation of the appendix c requirements i just mentioned by april 30th of this year. the direction further requires that each agency conduct the following analysis and present it to o.m.b.

one, provide a comprehensive correctionive action plan for each program in question. two, renew new categories for reporting improper payments and three, provide an analysis linking the agency efforts and establishing internal controls to the internal controls that they have for improper payments. under this administration, we have focused on the increased use of technology and sharing data to address improper payments. the effective use of data analytics provides insight into the methods and improveing the performance and decision-making capability. examples of using data analytics for improper payments include the cms fraud prevention system and d.o.l. integrity center for excellence. improper payments remains a high priority to this administration. although progress has been made, much more remains to be done and

we need your help. we look forward to working with the congress to pass the present's 16 budget and we expect additional progress as we execute against our new improper payments guidance during this fiscal year. thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you, mr. mader. our next witness is miss berry davis. she is the director of financial management and insurance at the government accountability office. miss davis. >> chairman johnson ranking member carper, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss improper payments and the use of death data to prevent payments to deceased individuals. in face cal year 2014 federal agencies estimated that improper payments totaled $124.7 billion. this represents a significant increase of almost $19 billion from the fiscal year 2013 estimate. the increase can be attributed primarily to increased error rates in three major programs.

medicare fee for service medicaid, and the earned income tax credit. these three programs accounted for about 65% of the 2014 estimate. nevertheless improper payments are a government-wide problem. the $124.7 billion estimate was attributable to 124 programs across 22 agencies. 12 programs had estimates exceeding $1 billion. one large program temporary assistance to needy families with outlays of more than $16 billion, did not report an estimate citing statutory limitations. >> say that again please. >> tanif with outlays of more than $16 billion did not report an estimate citing statutory limitations. in the financial report of the united states government for 2014, gao reported the issue of improper payments as a material weakness in internal control

because the federal government is unable to determine the full extent to which improper payments occur and reasonably assure that appropriate actions are taken to reduce them. inspectors general are required to report annually on criteria and improper payments legislation. in december 2014 be reported -- we reported that 10 agsz did -- agencies did not comply. the two most common areas of noncompliance with publishing and meeting improper payment reduction targets and reporting error rates below 10%. there are a number of strategies that agencies can employ to reduce improper payments including analyzing the root causes of improper payments in order to design and implement effective preventative controls. one major root is insufficient documentation. for example, hhs reports this is a primary root cause of improper payments for home health

payments for fee for service. and another driver such as the earned income tax program is the agency's inability to verify eligibility requirements including recipient income and the number of dependents. one example is to address underlying root causes is eligibility validation through sharing of data such as the ssa death data. the do not pay is a centralized data matching services that allows agencies to review multiple data bases including certain data made by ssa to determine data eligibility for payments. ssa can collect and manage death data to help prevent improper payments at the federal level. ssa maintains the full death data only eligible and contains data from funeral directors, family members and other agencies and states the death master file available to the

public is a sub set of the full file and does not contain death data from states. while reviewing death data can be a useful tool for agencies there are opportunities for ssa to improve the accuracy and completeness of the data. we have reported the ssa data procedure for maintaining death reports could result in untimely or erroneous death data. for example, we reported in november 2013 that ssa did not independently verify death reports for all sosh beneficiaries or any nonbeneficiaries before including them in death records. when death data is not verified there is an increased risk that such data will be inaccurate or incomplete and result in other benefit paying agencies using this data to make improper payments n. our november 2013 report we identified several types of errors with the ssa data for example we found instances of records where the date of death preseeded the date

of birth and reports showing dates of death between 115 and 195 years of age. recommend that ssa conduct a risk assessment to recognize the scope of the errors and ways to address them and the feasibility and the cost effectiveness of doing so. our report noted that ssa lacked written guidelines for determining agency eligibility to access the full death file. we recommended that ssa develop and publicize guidance to determine access eligibility and thus better inform agencies as to when they might be eligibilityel ijigible to more complete death data. because death data can be a useful tool for death payments continuing efforts are needed to help the risk of death data and make sure agencies receive access to this data. and with delays from outlays for major programs expected to

increase, it is critical that actions are taken to reduce improper payments. there is considerable opportunities for agencies, auditors and other members of the accountability community to work together with congress in ensuring that taxpayers' dollars are safeguarded and used for their intended purposes. chairman johnson, ranking member carper and members of the community. this ends my statement and i and mr. ber tony who works on the death master file are happy to take your questions. >> and i would like to recognize that mr. ber tony has joined the panel and he is the director of the gao income force and security team and he might assist in answering questions. and i'll start with mr. brune. prior to coming here today did you take a look at miss river's case to find out what the status is of her current status? >> senator the news media did not share the case with us

beforehand. i did know that miss rivers was testifying today. i did not look at the specifics of her case. i think it would be unwise to discuss that in an open forum but i would like to be -- happy to be discuss that -- >> fair enough. how many people are you aware of that are in miss rivers position. >> fewer than 9,000 a year have that circumstance happen to them. usually, senator, we learn of the kurns -- kurns by the individual reporting it directly to us and we advise the individual that we can correct that if they visit our office. as we request that an individual bring proofs of identity with them including state-issued form of identity a birth certificate if they have one, so that we can correct the record and when the individual leaves our office we issue them a letter indicating that there was an error and that has been corrected.