i like to have your company here and i hope we make wind ourselves in our company in the near future. we may hear news from some ghent that negotiations have been taking place or advocated. the appointment of john quincy adams two years ago it appears the advancement of these matters was made in december last year. we made a proposal for the british to me and discuss these matters. it was suggested by the british to remove it to gethent. they refuse last year and 1814. allowing them to discuss the terms of cease-fire and secession of possibility. they refused it. and december of the past year,

1814, they offered other terms of negotiation. the we were not entirely satisfied by those terms negotiation was better than no negotiation at all. our own ministers there, mr. adams, mr. craig, mr. russell they will recommence the negotiations. hopefully something fruitful has arrived. we won't know yet. thank you. [applause] >> you are watching "american history tv." 48 hours of american history on c-span 3. follow us on twitter . this is a live picture inside fords theatre, where all day

today, until about 4:30 p.m., we will be you live coverage of a symposium on lincoln's life and legacy. fords theatre is the site where abraham lincoln was assassinated by john looks toy john wilkes booth. the event should be getting underway in just a few moments. live coverage here on c-span 3. [inaudible chatter]

>> good morning. i know some of you are still getting settled, but we have a very packed schedule today. we want to try and keep ourselves on that schedule. my name is paul. i'm the director fords theatre and on behalf of everyone at the theater here, the national park service, we want to welcome you to fords theatre and this wonderful abraham lincoln institute symposium. i have a few housekeeping things to do, and then i will turn over the program to the people you really came to see. first of all, i would like to thank tremendously the abraham lincoln institute, the illinois

state society of washington dc, all the presenters, all the speakers, the board of the ali, and everyone at the fords theatre. i would like you to give them a round of applause. [applause] i would also like to mention, and you will senior program, the fords theatre, a commemoration of the 150th anniversary of the assassination of abraham lincoln, which is quickly upon us, has planned a great deal of programming associated with that. i'm not going to go into it all because it is luminous. you can see some of it in your program here. also, go to our website fords .org. i hope you will all participate. there is a vigil on april 14-15. please join us for some of that.

also, i will mention because it is such extraordinary exhibit, we are opening on monday across the street and exhibit called "silent witnesses." we are bringing back a number of artifacts that have been scattered the trust the country, and we -- across the country, and we brought them back for the 150 the exhibit is across the street and running through monday, may 25. a few housekeeping rules for today. no food or drink in the theater. only bottled water. your name tag will serve as your ticket for the full day of admission. it will also grant you admission to the fords theatre museum in the basement, which i think most of you know contain artifacts

and information about the presidency and assassination. there will be time for questions after each presentation. c-span is the only today. i ask -- there are two microphones in the aisles here. i asked, if you want to ask a question, please use a microphone because if not you will be lost by c-span. after each presentation, there will be a 15 minute break. during that time, presenters will sign books in the lobby. both can be purchased throughout the day in our gift shop. not only books of all the speakers that you will hear today and the books they are talking about today, but a number of books from our board members and other scholars we are over the years. one caveat. the last presenter, terry alford , will sign books after the

speakers panel. there will be a lunch break from 12:20 p.m. to 1:45 p.m. for those of you not familiar with this area of 10 street, there is a cheat sheet of places to ee and the lobby. lastly, i want to say that the abraham lincoln institute is a nonprofit organization, as all of you know, today's presentation was offered free of charge. the only way we can do that is if we are able to collect donations throughout the year to pay for events like today. if you are interested in donating, or have brought your checkbook today, please write out a check to the abraham lincoln institute. you can leave it with anyone in the box office. or, if you didn't bring your checkbook today, please visit our website at lincoln -institute.org.

please give generously. that is therefore the housekeeping. it gives the great pleasure now to introduce an outstanding public servant in the district of columbia, visit orange -- vincent orange who has served on the ward five council. he has been o and at large council member and is also part of the board of trustees. let me please introduce vincent orange. [applause] mr. orange: thank you so much, paul. what a beautiful morning the lord has given us to participate. as paul indicated, my name is vincent orange, i'm a council member of the district of columbia. i have the great honor today to recognize the lake in answer to

for their dedication to promoting the life and legacy of the united states of america president abraham lincoln. on this council, there are 13 of us. it is hard for us to agree on anything. we did agree that we would issue the abraham lincoln institute of solution -- a recognition of the great work they are doing. therefore, the council of the district of columbia announces and applauds the lincoln institute for promoting the life and legacy of abraham lincoln. [applause] i would like to present the resolution to the president. thank you so much for the job you're doing. as i close and take my seat, and what to say for the citizens of the district of columbia, we are definitely delighted and inspired by the 16th president of the united

states of america. on april 16, 1862, president lincoln executed the dcm at the patient proclamation act which freed the slaves in the district of columbia. the only time that the leaders out of the united states of america paid $1 million to the slaves. then, abraham lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation on january 1 1853. i'm very proud to be on the stage where president lincoln was on many occasions. thank you very much and have a great symposium. [applause] >> thank you, councilmember. you got a peek at the president

of the lake and institute. joan is also a professor at ohio state university. she holds a doctorate in history from harvard university. she has published four books and many articles on american history. she has been a terrific leader for the last year of the lincoln institute. please give a round of applause for joan cashin. [applause] president cashin: as president of the lincoln institute, i would like to extend my welcome to use the symposium today. we are very glad you're here. the institute was founded in 19 nice seven and is dedicated to undergoing research on abraham lincoln. five of the original founders are still board members. i would like to recognize them by name. some of them are here today.

terry alford clark david sellers -- i would like to thank them all for their years of service to the institute. [applause] true to our mission, we are here to discuss the life and death of one of america's greatest presidents. abraham lincoln excelled in so many ways. his ability to communicate with the public, his sense of timing, and his superb judgment of issues that people. he remains one of the most riveting personality who has ever lived in the white house. witty, likable, yet hard to get to know. a largely self educated man, who was one of the best writers in national politics. i native of the upper south, who ended slavery. his death was a great loss to the entire nation because the

challenges of postwar america would nearly as great as those that he faced it during the war. legal, social, racial, cultural thing at such a moment, the entire nation needed the leadership of a highly skilled politician. the tragedy of his death and the loss of his wisdom reverberated for decades afterwards. let us turn to the inspiring, fascinating subject of abraham lincoln. our speakers bring fresh perspectives wide reading, and original research to many aspects of lincoln's life. professor wilson. [applause] professor wilson: good morning. see what it says here.

my name is douglas wilson. [laughter] i'm the codirector of the lincoln studies center in illinois. it is my privilege to introduce the first speaker in the 2015 abraham lincoln institute symposium. he is a young scholar. he has already earned an array of honors. he was educated at penn state where he took his bachelor's degree in two dozen one, and the receipt of maryland where he earned a masters degree in 2003, and a phd in 2008. the department of history maryland awarded him a price in potable history. his doctoral dissertation earned a prestigious prize and thousand 10. he has already authored several books. including to lincoln

titles -- most recently, "emancipation, and the union army and reelection of lincoln." more than two dozen articles have appeared under his name in scholarly journals and popular history magazines. in 2005, he won the john t hubble prize for the best article in civil war history. his current book project is "midnight in america: night sleep, and dreams in the civil war." this energetic young historian is currently assistant professor at christopher newport

university. he is here to speak on "lincoln and dreams of death." it is a pleasure to enter his professor jonathan w white. [applause] professor white: thanks, doug. i'm honored to be here today. i've sat in the audience here at fords theatre a dozen of times, but this is my first time on the stage. i almost thought i should wait until the end of the introduction and make a dramatic appearance on the stage. i was wondering if maybe i could recline in one of the couches in the box up there for the rest of the symposium. [laughter] i have to say from the outset that i have been coming to the symposium for more than 10 years. it just so happens that my wife's birthday is tomorrow, which means i'm out of town for her birthday almost every year. lauren, if you're watching from

home happy birthday. i had a but you'd gift yet but when i'm done, i will go out to the book table and i'll see if there's something you would like. at about two years ago, i have the idea of writing a history of dreams during the civil war. i have a chapter on lincoln. that is where i will focus moc st of my remarks on today. the civil war place new genes on lincoln and his generation. the dreams reflected the hardships. sometimes dreams intruded on their slumber, bringing horrors of the conflict to lead to them in their sleep. for others, nighttime was an escape from the wartime. the dreams of civil war americans reveal that generation's deepest longings, hopes, and fears. its desires and shame. when americans recorded their dreams in their diaries, letters, and memoirs they

sought to make sense of the changing world around them and cope with the confusion, despair, and loneliness of life among the turmoil of a gigantic civil war. in my research, i found that northerners and southerners dreamt about lincoln during the war. union officers sometimes dreamt that they met with him to discuss promotions. [laughter] it did not always work out how they hope. po talked -- pows jumped about exchanges. my favorite happens to be a confederate civilian stream. on july 7, 1864, one died that h -- one junk that he died and went to another war. woman said, is the mayor fritchman appeared?

and he replied, you will find him in the other place. he turned around and went to what he described as being a somber looking castle. above the castle was written the word help. he saw satan and all of these seats on the floor. some of them were they get they get, others were occupied by lawyers. he sat on one seat, and the devil said no, you can't sit there, that is for the mayor of richmond. he sat in another seat, and he said no that is reserved for the union general butler. he sat in another seat, and people yelled at him, don't sit in that seat. they said, that is for old abe.

he wrote from the stream shaking and shivering, but also saying that he hoped it wasn't a dream. in my last book, i found one new york soldier -- i exited the included in that book, i will include it in my next one -- he included this about lincoln, he said lincoln has become at vampire, the nightmare be beneath the nation. there you have it. before abraham lincoln ever became a vampire hunter, he was a vampire himself. [laughter] since the civil war, americans have been fascinated by lincoln streams and prophetic statements. such as in 1861 at independence hall he said he would rather be assassinated in that spot then sacrifice the principles of the declaration of independence. sometimes lincoln sense of humor came out in his dreams. his private secretary recorded one such stream and his diary. he wrote, lincoln dreams that he

is a party of people. as they become familiar with the is, they common on his appearance. one says, he is a common looking man. the president replied in his dream, common people -- most of what we know about lincoln stdreams come from secondhand accounts, but there are times when we get accounts from his own hand. he wrote to mary, about a dream that he had about their child. it made him very concerned until you got a letter from mary saying that robert was ok. in june of 1863, lincoln sent a telegram to mary telling her to quote put ted's pistol away because he had a ugly dream about him. according to the last dr

eam, richard brightman fox wrote that they gave one a sense, however murky, of what might come to pass. i think this is a very good assessment of what lincoln's view dreams was. one of his most famous trees was depicted in a famous spielberg movie. on april 14, 1865, lincoln said this to his cabinet, i had a strange dream again last night. we shall soon have great news. the secretary of the navy asked him about the nature of this remarkable dream to which lincoln replied, it had to do with his expertise, the water. he described the dream and some in some detail. he was in the wate in a vessel

moving towards an indefinite shore. he told the cabinet that he had had this dream before the confederate attack on fort sumter, as well as preceding the battles of bull gettysburg, and the surrender at vicksburg. lincoln believe the stream for great results, hopefully involving sherman's army. title ulysses s -- general grant pointed out that stones river was no great victory and there were no great results that resulted. sitting at the cabinet meeting that morning, secretary wells did not think much about the dream. he remembered it shortly thereafter and wrote it down in his diary. great evidence did indeed follow , he wrote mournfully. for within a few hours, the good and gentle, as well as truly

great man who narrated that dream close forever his earthly career. for witnesses reported on separate occasions. the most -- secretary of war also told the dream to charles dickens. dickens in wrote about it to a friend in england. frederick stewart, the assistant secretary of state, was at the meeting since his father just had a carriage accident, and stewart then recorded it in his memoirs in the early 20th century. finally, "the new york herald" reported the dream in 1865 before any of his cabinet members even wrote it down. by may of 65, the story had been repeated in newspapers as far as san francisco. the dream has fascinated readers, and is even the subject of a children's book.

another genes in place around the time of his presidency in 1860. while reclining on his couch at his home in springfield, he looked across the room to a mirror. he saw a double image of himself. one image was very lifelike, while the other was ghostly pale . the image disappeared, he looks back, and the double image appeared again. he walked across the room to look at it and couldn't see the double image. this was curious to lincoln. in fact, there were several accounts that said while he was president in the white house, he tried to reproduce this fun almond on and was never able to make a happen. the people who heard this, and the meaning of it, some claims that lincoln thought this meant he would live through his first term in office, but die in

his second. the surgery and is the most startling. lincoln allegedly drunk this a few weeks before his assassination in april 1860 five. at first he kept it a secret until it overwhelmed them. one day in early 1865, according to lincoln's friend, he approached a small group of friends at the white house included laman and mary todd lincoln. he was in a melancholy and meditative mood. finally, very aroused her husband to speak what was on his mind. it seems strange how much there is in the bible about dreams lincoln said. there are i think, 16 chapters in the old testament and four or five in the new, in which dreams are mentioned. there are many other passages scattered throughout the book that refer divisions. if we believee the bible, we must accept the fact that in the old days, and god and his angels

came to people in their sleep and made themselves known in their dreams. mary lincoln was struck and asked him, do you believe in dreams.? i can't say i do, he replied, but i had one the other night that was haunting. after he had the dream, he open his bible, and he said the pages of genesis -- he then turned to other passages, each one dealt with dreams or visions. as he was saying this, he was now so seriously disturbed, mary said, you frighten me, what's the matter? lincoln replied, you should have brought the subject up. somehow, it has gotten possession of me. according to laman, this only made merry more curious. she strongly urged him to tell the dream.

he was hesitant, but decided he would tell the dream. laman said he did so with his brow overcast. laman recounted his words as accurately as he remembered them. this is what the gloomy president said. about 10 days ago i retire late. i had been up waiting important dispatches from the front. i couldn't be long in bed when i fell into a slumber, because i was weary. i soon began to dream. they seem to be a deathlike stillness about me. then, i heard subdued sobs as if the number of people were weeping. i thought i left my bed and went downstairs. there, the silence was broken by more sobbing. the mourners were invisible. i went from room to room, but no one was in sight. it was light in all the rooms.

all the objects were familiar to me, but where where all the people who were weeping as if their hearts would break? i was puzzled and alarm. what could be the meaning of all this? there i met with a sickening a surprise. it before me was a corpse wrapped in funeral vestments. it around it were soldiers acting as guards. it there was a crowded. it others were weeping pitifully. who is dead in the white house? the president was his answer. then it came allowed burst of grief from the crowd which awoke me from my dream. i slept no more that night. it i have been strangely annoyed with it ever since.

mary lincoln responded that the story was horrid and she wished lincoln have not told it. i am glad i don't believe in dreams, she said it. lincoln responded that it was only a dream. say no more about it. he continued his telling of the story that the dream was so horrible and real and in keeping with other dreams that mr. lincoln was profoundly disturbed by it. it lincoln looked grave and visibly pale as he described the vision. there was something about it that was real, true to the actual tragedy which occurred soon after that more than moral strength and wisdom what have been required to let it pass without a shutter or paying it.

this is a remarkable story. the drink -- president dreamed of his own assassination a few days before it happened. it's no wonder that writers like carl sandburg of all included in their books. just last week, i was reading a book. it's a wonderful book about the assassination of james garfield. robert todd lincoln told the stream to president garfield during the final cabinet meeting in 1881, two days before he was assassinated. what irony. you can't get more than that. a historian appropriated it for

their own book. don't buy that book. wait for mine to come out. it [laughter] is the story true? i think we should be hesitant to take such a fantastical story. it should because for concern. the account was first published in 1887, 22 years after lincoln died. it appeared in recollections of abraham lincoln, published in 1895. laman claimed that it came from notes made in 1865. scholars have treated the story with some reservation. david donald said he was highly unreliable in some accounts while a stanford historian claims that more than a little

of his quotation of lincoln was invented it. he demolishes laman's credibility of the funeral dream. the timing doesn't make any sense. it there are a few ways that he points this out. laman" lincoln as saying he was waiting for dispatches from the front. lincoln was at the front from march 24 until april 9. the analysis should have been enough to discredit the story. he did not do you deeply enough into the origins of the stream. i found several versions of the dream that predate laman's telling. the earliest came from a spence -- pennsylvania newspaper. a more detailed version appears in an unsigned article in a literary magazine called

gleason's monthly companion. it was after the dream appeared in this literary magazine the newspapers around the country began circulating it. it the details differ in several ways from laman's account and recollection. the 1880 version has no chronological clues as to when lincoln was supposed to have had the stream compared to laman who said it was an early 1865 before his death area --. lincoln was in conversation with mrs. lincoln and the children in the 1880 version. it was lincoln's son who implored his father to tell the dream and later called dreadful.

robert todd lincoln makes an appearance in the 1880 version of the story. according to the 1880 version, mary lincoln's first exclamation after john wilkes booth shot her husband was this, his dream was prophetic. the author of the 1880 article that this remark has not been understood. it makes me think that laman could not have written the version since he claimed to be present the telling of the story. he would have known what the dream meant and what mary meant by that statement. no other source has mary saying his dream was prophetic when he was shot. in 1866, mary told herndon that lincoln never dreamt of death. there are other discrepancies, i

won't get into them here. the most important is that he is nowhere to be seen in the 1880 version of the story. that piece concludes subsequently the dream was told to many in washington. i have done a digital sirs -- search of newspapers. i found that the ship on the water dream was reproduced in 1865 and got widespread attention in the months after lincoln's death. i found no mention of this funeral dream. if it was the talk around washington, surely without its way into the papers. two weeks ago, i traveled to the huntington library to look at

the collection of papers to see if i could find any evidence of the story. i searched to see if there were any notes that laman took. he said he took notes after lincoln said. i found no notes related to this story. i did find plenty of other notes that laman took for other stories. i found no correspondence with the publisher. it was common for laman to communicate with editors. i did find a set of drafts of letters that laman wrote to editors all of the country in 1887 saying i have some great recollections of lincoln and i will sell them for $25 each. he was trying to make a profit off his connection to lincoln. the most interesting evidence, i

found a letter in which a correspondent sent a letter to laman about lincoln. part of this correspondence thanked eight presentiment. the entire letter was about lincoln and it being dated 1882 after the story began circulating in newspapers, laman read the story in the newspaper and called it a counterfeit presentment. it was only later that he realized this was a great story that he can insert himself into. on april 27, laman wrote a letter to the secretary of war saying he met with lincoln on april 13 had not spoken with him for three weeks before that. by his own testimony he could not have heard the story from

lincoln a few weeks before the assassination, which is how he rendered thanks 22 years later. did he give story from lincoln? i don't think so. i think this was a fictional piece written for a newspaper. it was embellished by a literary magazine. i think the dream was another fabrication. i found a newspaper article from the 1940's where some of the todd family claims that mary todd lincoln had the dream for the assassination. somebody read it and as the story was told over generations it was mary. a number of stories i found like this. i think they are forgeries.

i would be happy to tell you about them during the q&a. the question is, why are dreams like this included in the most widely read books about lincoln? they are great stories. americans want to read stories about our greatest leaders. john adams and thomas jefferson both tied on july 4 1826, the 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence. that was true, by the way. we are fascinated to know that one of our most revered leaders envision his own assassination just days before it happened. the tragedy is gripping. it confirms our place in history. it seems believable because it's in keeping with what we know about lincoln. stories like these confirm the myths about lincoln that americans long to believe, that

he was almost supernatural. the fascination with biographers and their readers with lincoln's dreams may say more about lincoln's admirers. during the war, he became a symbol of god's hand in the conflict. a woman wrote to mary todd lincoln about a dream she had that she believed had significant meaning. she saw a great storm with terrible thunder and lightning and she said it was as if the heavens and earth were coming together. she saw lincoln standing above the clouds. he was towering over the city of washington with a book in his hand. he was crowned with honors. he looked very smiling. i thought i clapped my hand.

i rose from my bed and tend this to paper. a voice from the north has proclaimed the glad morning and slavery has ended and freedom is born, the south is restored. secession has ended and slavery is over. think about that. may, 1861 prior to the first battle of the civil war. this woman envisions lincoln as a savior to the nation and liberator to the slaves. she hoped the dream would be a comfort to mrs. lincoln. this woman was not alone. illinois republican declared in 1864 that the great man is a special gift from god almighty and if we reject him, we reject

god almighty. lincoln almost universally assumes the status of a martyr. the timing of his death could not be more prescient. he died the following morning after being shot on good friday. from the moment of his death americans began to process the mythmaking about lincoln, making him the most exalted secular american saint. that is the voice of god speaking to the lips of abraham lincoln. in 1890, shelby cullum praised the great hearted patriot.

he continued, never was a nobler man born of woman and never throbbed a purer heart. no man has ever existed on the american continent superior to abraham lincoln. lincoln had one immortality when he died with a crown of glory upon his brow. a senator from iowa proclaimed that lincoln had been transfigured since his death. he had become a mysterious personality. an idaho center declared, sacred writers would have placed him among the sears and profits and invested him with hidden powers of the mystic world. antiquity would have closed a being with the attributes of

deity. the white house funeral dream occurred in newspapers frequently. one union that are in said no intelligent man questions the vision that crossed the disk of abraham lincoln's slumbers. over time, the mythology surrounding lincoln continued to grow. the hardscrabble beginnings, his self-education, his hard work, his adherence to principle. his moral triumphs in freeing the slaves and restoring the union. his premature death on easter weekend. all of these attributes are true. somehow they have become larger-than-life.

the whole has become bigger than the sum of its parts. lincoln the myth is an important part of america's public memory. it makes sense that his prophetic dreams have such wide appeal. for all that modern science has given us, for as rational as we think we are, we still want to believe that dreams have significance and meeting. something greater than themselves is superintending their lives and faye is real. ordinary human beings are capable of extraordinary greatness. their nation is the best hope on earth. americans who lived through the civil war recorded and communicated their dreams to one another as a coping mechanism.

in a real way, this process helped the civil war generation sustain themselves through a bloody conflict. in the same way, the continued retelling of stories is an essential part of our national identity. the stories are part of who we are. it should come as no prize that the author of the anonymous article closed with a reflection that lincoln's dream was one of the most impressive incidents connected with the tragedy which gave our nation its immortal martyr. imagine that. a fictitious dream, being put forth as one of the most significant incidents of the civil war. it was and it remains so today.

it affirms for us the greatness of our greatest leader. thank you. [applause] there are two mics up front. i am happy to answer any questions you might have read --. >> i believe there is evidence that mary lincoln had seances in the white house. have you come across if he participated? did he believe in them or was he just doing it to satisfy his wife? >> there were seances at the white housee. i don't know the later part of your question. this is something that is often

debated about lincoln in terms of what his religious beliefs were or what his beliefs about a cultish things were. scholars often differ on those matters. i don't know that he wrote anything down about his views of those seances. i have not seen anything. i could not answer definitively. i do know that he did attend. >> you talk about the myth, to what extent has the myth influenced historians? >> that's a big question. i think it's inevitable that the myth influences historians. why do they get interested in lincoln it? you grow up hearing great stories. i think he is our greatest leader. there is a reason why there is a myth.

all of those things about him are true in terms of his rise to greatness. i think what good historians do is they look at the evidence and they try to hold themselves to the evidence that is before them. while the myth will influence us, we try to be diligent. it's hard to be more precise. >> you mentioned other dreams? >> i will talk about a few of the others. i don't think these are true, although this is just my view. the one i figured out is there was an auction catalog that had a manuscript of lincoln writing

that he drank tea was being buried alive. it was sold at auction in 1944. there was another one where this one is an invert forgery. we may address the last question. i was reading a book. it was published in 1991. there is a section on dreams. he describes lincoln. on the last night of 1862 after news of the fighting lick and dreamed of corpses on the battlefield in tennessee, then fire in the night and sources

test soldiers in the rain. this is a remarkable dream of. there is a battle going on in tennessee hundreds of miles away and lincoln is dreaming about it. there is not a footnote for that story. later, i was going through stephen oates biography. he had written this. that night, lincoln tossed in fitful sleep. he dreamed of corpses on a battlefield in tennessee, guns flashing in the night. of crowds reading casualty returns at willard's hotel. nobody was cited, i think he took this story from stephen oates. the language is almost identical. both cited benjamin thomases

biography. apparitions of dead in belated soldiers lying on the cold ground soaked in winter rain tortured the president's sleep. benjamin thomas did not have a footnote. i could not trace where he got the story from. i found that he had a tendency to try to put himself into lincoln's mind and figure out what was going on. capture a scene with some artistic license. he admitted to doing this on four occasions. i think this is one of those. what happens? lincoln issues the emancipation proclamation. he must've been thinking about the death on the battlefield. he took some license and wrote

this story. stephen oates took it as a dream and the story evolves over time he even went so far as to say this dream allowed lincoln to experience combat in a way that the soldiers did. the myths grow over time. there is one other one. i will just point to one. lincoln had another bodyguard. william crook wrote two memoirs. in the 1911 memoir he claimed lincoln told him of an assassination dream on the three nights leading up to his assassination. he had this dream three

recurring nights. as he was getting ready to come here to ford's theatre, he tells crook about these dreams. he pleads with lincoln to let him come to afford with them. lincoln turns to crook and says, goodbye, crook. whatever they had departed, lincoln had said good night. it is compelling. we don't know what the dream was. crook did not write it down. how reliable is this remembrance? we can't know definitively. i went back to 1910. in that memoir, crook does not mention this scary assassination dream that lincoln had three days before his assassination.

he only mentions the ship on the water dream. he did not mention that he had heard it from lincoln. i think that he published his first memoir and he had a good story in there about the ship on the water. he thought i can make this an even better story. i think that's what he did. i can't disprove it. my theory is the one to tell his other story. >> this may be a trivial point my understanding is that while lincoln didn't bring up the story of the ship on the water he did not mention that he had the dream the night before. >> he had had that dream the night before his final cabinet meeting. >> i discovered the writings of

thomas harris. he wrote a book. he served on the tribunal that prosecuted the conspiracy. can you comment on his actual conversations? lincoln felt a mark of a heretic had been placed on him with rome recognizing the union. ~ that is beyond my research.

>> have there been anything on john wilkes booth's dreams? i don't know. >> in god we trust on the coins is or any relation between lincoln's outlook >> and those things? > when i was in high school i had a two cent piece that said in god we trust on it. it was from 1864. i used to collect coins and then. i river taking that to school and show it to my classmates. it did not come home with me that day. i think i blocked from my memory i don't remember.

it would've been passed by congress. lincoln would have signed it. i don't know the motivation. are you asking if it had a connection to his dreams? >> 1864, that connection. >> i would imagine in part that it would be to motivate northerners. i could not imagine that it's connected to lincoln's dreams at all. you see a development in lincoln's views of religion over his life. when he runs for congress, he is accused of being an infidel and an atheist.

by 1865, you get this inaugural address filled with biblical allusions. he may have been a mover behind getting that on the point. i just don't know. is that a question? i thought i was off the hot seat. >> you talk about how the nation was in, and resorted to dreams for solace. our nation after 9/11 seemed to resort to conspiracy theories. can you talk about the psychology of the nation during the civil war and why they were more likely to turn to dreams? >> i should say, i'm not a licensed psychologist. i will approach it from a historian's perspective.

i am looking at sleep and dreams during the civil war. no one has written about sleep during the war. i worry that it's because it might make for a snooze of a read it. i will be that my first chapter one put people to sleep. soldiers wrote about sleep all the time in their letters. i think they did that because that was a way for them to connect with people at home. a soldier who might be hundreds of miles away and weeks from having communicated with a spouse or parent or child they know they were going to bed at the same time and that was a shared periods. soldiers right to their loved ones and say it's january 1 and i'm going to read two chapters from the bible every night. if you want to read along with me, you can do that. i think that sleep became a powerful way for soldiers and their loved ones to communicate

with one another and feel like they were closer than they were. the discussion of dreams grew out of that. soldiers and civilians loved to communicate their dreams with one another. that was a way for them to encourage one another. soldiers would say that i dreamt i was with you. psychologically, that provided a firm connection between people who were hundreds of miles apart. that was the only way they could communicate. i can't speak to today. that is what i see going on during the civil war. you have been waiting. >> i am a park ranger. we are present in at the garfield

site. >> he wrote that a generation or two before. thank you. that drugs my memory grid --. >> did mary todd lincoln have dreams? were they recorded in any way? how common were seances back then? >> there was a rise of cultish things. i know how common it would've been to have a seance in the white house. in terms of mary's dreams, i feel like i should turn to joan on that.

i know that mary was concerned about lincoln's dreams. i can't speak to her dreams in themselves. lincoln was traveling in virginia at the front. he had a dream that the white house was on fire. he may have had reason to be concerned. the stable had caught on fire. mary got very involved in terms of making sure everything was ok. they made sure that everything was ok. she went back to the white house and telegraph lincoln. i can't speak to her dreams. she was involved in listening to his dreams and participating in some way. i can tell you mrs. davis had a number of dreams about the

jefferson davis. she dreamt that she kissed him as he was leaving and in 1862 she had a dream where she was giving him a kiss, this time everybody was watching and laughing at them. there might be something psychological going on where she is more self-conscious about her role as first lady. she dreamt that he had his arm cut off. one more question? last question. >> i have been live tweeting the talk. i got a question the atwitter. what is the most commonly overlooked part of the assassination? the accomplices? >> that's a good tweet.

that's the first tweet i've ever received. [laughter] i believe that to the next speaker. thank you so much. [applause] >> the symposium is looking at abraham lincoln's life and legacy is taking a break for 15

minutes. we will be back with more live coverage when it resumes. a look at the history of columbus, georgia. they are part of our c-span cities to her. -- tour. >> this is the naval museum. we are on the banks of the river. the purpose of the museum is to tell the story of the navy's during the civil war. we are the only facility that focuses entirely on that. we are in a unique place. this is the remains of a confederate ironclad, the jackson. it was built here during the war. we are in the vessel.

this section fell apart during the recovery process. this is a great vantage point to look at how this thing is built and what areas are used for different purposes. an ironclad is a wooden ship. you still have to build the structure out of wood. on the outside of it, above the waterline there are iron plates. this is the cladding. if you want to think about it like this, it's like putting a man inside a suit of armor. most of these are used in coastal waters and rivers. they were designed to protect local port cities and river towns. this leads us to why it was built in columbus. columbus is far from the coast.

it is the most important site in the confederacy. the navy begins building at in order to protect this important site. there was the fear that the union navy would mount an attack up the chattahoochee river in order to take the city. the reason that columbus is important is because of the industrial capacity. they are producing a, uniforms munitions. this is where the columbus depot was. the uniforms produced here went largely to the western army. this is an internal way for the confederates to produce their own material rather than having to import so much from outside. construction began in 1862 and she was launched into the river in 1864.