there would be no reason for phineas gurley to make that up. it's a wonderful idea for us, in thinking about how lincoln's mind works. and what he might have been thinking on april 14. he might've been thinking during his conscious hours, during the day on april 14 about what he was going to think about that night. he didn't have time to think things through in 30 seconds of talking about richmond was kyler colfax, or three minutes of chatting with mary about their future life together. but he knew this whole life awaited him, when he did most of his thinking. i go back to the hope that even in his unconscious state lincoln, lying on his deathbed, might have had images come to

his mind, images he wouldn't be able to report, however, subconscious they were, maybe got a flickr of something as he lay there across the street. my hope is that as he lay dying lincoln was able to call to mind the image of even jesus on the cross, perhaps, but certainly my hope is that he would have had the knowledge that historic irony was about to take place. he was about to die, having been shot all the very day of jesus's crucifixion. and that would send him into a martyrdom like none other. maybe he had some inkling that this was his fate. of course, as is just my fantasy. but we do know, i think, the during the day of april 14, he

may have been looking forward happily to the knights of thinking -- the night of thinking that lay ahead. take you. [applause] -- thank you. [applause] richard: i see a questioner,. >> a quick question about what motivated you to write your book given that you would written previous books about religious history in america. like slaves the shift to lincoln? -- what explains the shift to lincoln? richard: the short answer would be that as i was finishing my book called "jesus in america," i was fascinated by the fact that lincoln was relatively uninterested in jesus himself. he was much more hebrew

scriptures disciple that he was a disciple of jesus. that judgment would have to be justified a greater length. the very short version, i would simply say that as soon as he was killed, everyone else compared them to jesus. the usual comparison went that lincoln wasn't divine like jesus, but he was divinely appointed by god for a special mission, and that's why god providentially allowed his assassination. that conjunction of lincoln's own relative lack of interest in jesus and the cultures' fantastic connection of jesus and lincoln drew me towards this new project and maybe think first i would just deal with the initial funeral period when the jesus talk was overwhelmingly loud.

when i continue to the month of april and may, i realize that the story of lincoln in american memory had only just begun. people were still thinking about lincoln's life-and-death, trying to make sense of it through the rest of the 19th century. the events of 1909 proved how deeply lincoln was still embedded in american culture. ralph waldo emerson's comment about jesus, that he had been plowed into american culture resonated with me as i thought about lincoln. lincoln plowed into american culture so deeply that we are all here today. >> professor fox, i have a question moving forward as the cultural history discussed within your book, 1968, america is going through a lot of upheaval. with questioner heroes and one of the things you mention in your book is the musical "hair."

that particular scene, the ebony as they came out were questioning lincoln as the great emancipator. there were other contexts going on with turn-of-the-century question as well. try to frame or put it into the period of 1968, we are still debating the greatness of lincoln and we're not ashamed of questioning a hero. richard: that's a wonderful whole area of discussion. i can check off a few points that would go into the discussion. i see the late 1960's and 70's is a big turning point in the love of lincoln in the united states. i can remember what has commonly been called the cult of lincoln in the 1950's and early 60's.

a big change took place when at least among lower then called liberals, lincoln became unfortunately linked to the warfare states. so vietnam and other factors entered into this declining adulation i would say for lincoln. lincoln never faded from view, it's just that opinion about him became less entirely favorable. i think generally in the 1970's there was a fading of attention to lincoln, that's what we lost the lincoln birthday, that's when there were just a lot of reasons why it was less attention to lincoln. after, for a long time, lincoln was riding high because of its cutting lincoln down a peg and finding fault with lincoln. by the 1990's, there was a real

comeback, i think led by former liberals and radicals, black and white, but found lincoln less useful in the 19 60's -- the late 1960's and 1970's. i shouldn't knowledge martha who is here, with whom i am pleasantly paired for life because our books came out at the same time and were often reviewed together. martha, like me, gives tremendous emphasis to the black experiences of lincoln over time. i think that is crucial for 1968, the assassination of martin luther king affected not only black americans, it affected white americans. it made for a late 20th century martyrdom that in a way could edge lincoln slightly aside. lincoln never left us, there is been a major revival of,

especially attending to his words. douglas wilson, who is here, is one of the leaders of that whole era in bringing back a sense of lincoln the writer and or tour -- greater -- orator. lincoln was brought back too with obama and steven spielberg especially here in a kind of centrality in our culture as the emancipator. that is a historically decisive and significant developments. we have to protect that if we care about equality, as lincoln did. that is lincoln in a nutshell. he is a zealot for equality. he thinks that it has to take time to happen. if you believe in lincoln as the egalitarian as the emancipator

we have to defend that. it's never going to be fully established. does not deny that he is also a reunify or of the nation, but is to say that as you put it in pre in 1854, he didn't want just to have a nation, he wanted to have a republic. at a republic worth the saving. it had to be a republic of equality for him. thank you. the last question, i'm told. >> how about the april 11 speech he made from the window of the white house? richard: it's a very important speech. if the speech were lincoln for the first time ever, a president endorsed the idea -- [no audio]

>> we're having problems with the video symbol at the symposium we are covering on president abraham lincoln of ford's theater. we are working to fix that for you and looking to return to the event live in just a few moments to read. in the meantime, look at the history of columbus, georgia, the city we are featuring on american history tv on c-span3. >> i can hear you, sound off.

[chanting] >> [indiscernible] >> there was a group of americans -- no other group of americans has given more in defense of this country than the united states infantry. >> 11:00. >> we've lost more lives, more arms, more legs, more lives on the battlefield than any other group of americans. and it's all because they were willing to go out and give their lives in defense of the country. for bening was established -- fort benning was established on approximately 85 acres of land in october of -- for the

daughter of henry louis bening from the fort was raised, raise the first leg area they knew immediately that they do five acres of land was not good to be sufficient. they rode out and talked with a local businessman, who owned a love of the land around here. he agreed to sell it to the army. we eventually moved out here in 1919. in world war i, the image replayed the key role -- the infantry played the key role in the battlefield for all those participating in the war. it was determined that had we had better training we were lost fewer soldiers. went for bening started, the war had not ended yet. at the 11th month our, the war

came to a close. there was talk of closing fort benning. many officers who had served in the american exit sherry forces to france -- expeditionary forces to france testify that had our soldiers had better training, they would not of suffered the casualties they did in just 210 days of actual combat, they suffered 53,500 killed outright on the battlefield. 300,000 wounded or gassed. for just 210 days of combat was an appalling figure. these young officers thought if they could get it place where they train infantry soldiers how to do his job properly, using all the facets of the army, artillery, we would have an artillery unit here. and infantry demonstration unit tanks here, so on. even a balloon coirrps.

so all the modern tactics and techniques could be given to soldiers ever going to be trained. it was determined by congress that would keep for bending on a smaller scale -- fort benning on a smaller scale. luckily for us, and survived. through the 1920's and 1930's, it's what cap learning alive within the reserves of the national guard in the regular army. when the japanese attacked pearl harbor on december 7, 1941 fort benning was ready to expand its training and allow the army to expand from 200,000 soldiers to over 8.5 million soldiers before the war would be concluded. in that, they would train 65,000 officer candidates to lead that army. they were sent here for all types of training -- ranger school, airborne school, is that

-- ocet. these are the youngest soldiers that come in and begin to become infantrymen. they go through we still call basic training, and then ait advanced individual training. they go through those courses, the gas chambers, utilize the weapon system, learn how to read maps learn first aid, anything that a soldier would need to survive on the modern battlefield, they begin to teach it here. then you can go to airborne school, and we train all the airport soldiers for the entire armed forces of the united states here at fort benning. if you are an abc will, you will come here for airborne training -- a navy seal, you come here for airborne training. you come here to be trained in the use of the parachute.

when parachute school first started at fort benning, they were volunteers from the 29th u.s. infantry regiment, 44 of them and to officers -- two officers became the test platoon at fort benning. they would make the first combat jump as infantry soldiers. they decided they would expand to a battalion. eventually they did that very it was eventually expanded into divisions. the airborne division was supposed to be able to be deployed behind enemy lines, as they were at normandy, and other places. and order to capture important bridges, towns, road junctures and so on. until they were relieved what is attacking forces coming up. ocs is officer candidate school. it was established by general

george kaplan marshall, chief of staff of the army. as i already said, the army would expand to a provide million men in this time -- 8.5 million men, and needed men to leave them in the combat. the first graduating class went on in every major operation in world war ii, that the army for dissipated in. -- participated in. officers trained from georgia were involved. if you pass the mental and physical tests, anyone can qualify to good officer candidate school. that was one of the provisions of marshall wanted to have. if we are a true democracy, then anyone who has the ability physically and mentally, should be able to become an officer in the united states army. 1973, we started training female soldiers to go through officer

candidate school. in the opening days of the ocs at fort benning, it was just a train infantry officers. today we train soldiers for all the occupations within the armed forces of the u.s. army. >> ranger. >> ranger school started here at fort benning in the 1950's. the first airborne ranger companies were trained here at fort benning to answer the fighting in the korean war. later it was determined in 1951 it would become the ranger school, and they would just train individual soldiers that would go back to their units and pass on the lessons they learned in the ranger training here to their units. small unit training, making sure a soldier knows that arena map knows how to defend himself with small arms, his weapons.

knowing how to defend himself if he has no weapons. hand-to-hand fighting, and so on. again, stressing every possible aspect that a soldier might experience on the battlefield. it's a grueling course, very hard. you are deprived of sleep, you are deprived of food, in order to see how you will measure up if your supplies are cut off during the course of battle, and so on. >> you are receiving fire, you can run 500 meters in the wide open. -- you cannot run to 500 meters in the wide open. >> it's important that a soldiers prepared mentally and physically to go into combat. ranger school is one of the best training device is the army has to make sure the soldier is tough enough and strong enough to experience combat and survive, and bring his men home alive area today, fort benning

is called a center of excellence. when train united states infantry soldiers, we now train armored soldiers. an armored skeleton so on here at fort benning. the army and infantry were together in it was very important that they come to fort benning and learn to work together, even more closely than they do on the battlefield of yesteryear. some of the problems that we have here fort benning of training is always the human element. when you put that into training, there's always the possibility that someone is going to get hurt. that's one of the things they try very diligently to do, make sure that the shoulder -- soldier is safe during training. we want them trained well, but we don't want anyone her in the training. >> we're back live at ford's theatre in washington dc.

we are covering an all-day symposium on president abraham lincoln's life and legacy. live coverage on american history tv on c-span 3. >> thank you very i am dr. john r sellers. aging historian, retired from the library congress. i think one of the tasks of anyone injured as speaker is trying to establish a spirit of rapport with the audience. i'm introducing stephen a goldman, my psychiatrist. [laughter] friend. steve comes from an entirely

different background. he has all the credentials of anyone who has gone through the training for medical and psychiatric work. both in academia, and in public and private service. rather than go through his credentials, i want to take a more personal approach and give you some insight into steve as a research, writer, historian. in 41 years that i worked with the manuscript division of the library congress, as the civil more specialist and lincoln curator, i entertained many pros perspective writers and season authors in search of new material. they would come to my office, almost weekly, certainly

monthly, and we would talk. i can't say -- occasionally i could be of service because i was responsible for bringing in new material, either purchasing or accepting donations of rare manuscripts. dr. goldman showed up 17 years ago. we talked, went to lunch shared ideas, iced versions -- aspirations. i introduced steve to a collection called left-handed penmanship. the person in charge of maintaining the collections had come to me earlier prepared to dispose of that particular collection, said they had so few users on record. it was really a contest, set up for civil war veterans that had suffered the loss, theoretically of the right arm, many lost

the left arm or leg. the object was to train them, or help them trade themselves, or stimulate them to train themselves to the use of opposite limb. a $500 top prize -- it was so successful, it was repeated several times. anyway, the collection is a treasure in that it had the personality -- the life experiences in writing of numerous veterans who had survived the war. and had experienced the trauma of losing a limb, usually a right arm, sometimes a leg. steve started working with our collection, and the end result is a great expansion of his knowledge of civil war service of veteran soldiers. he went way beyond just the

small collection. and he stayed with it through 17 years. his book is coming out either this fall or early next year. it deals with the effect of combat and military service on the individual soldier. i think it will be new original. different. i be something that we will all want to see i have been -- i have been to steve's home, we have talked annually i was part in getting him to be part of the lincoln institute board, and he has been a very faithful member. he has become a close friend, and my psychiatrist. thank you. [laughter] [applause]

dr. goldman: i wasn't sure which was more of an honor to speak at fords theatre or to be and reduce by john sellers. i think it is then that quite frankly. john sellers of one of those public servants who is the replaceable when they leave public service. it really is quite an honor to be here. he mentioned before, i've been to the museum, but not the theater. this is really quite a place. one of the joys of historical research is finding out what was true as was not true. i term has been attributed to abraham lincoln by historians, but there's actually no direct evidence that lincoln ever use the term, and he certainly did

not coin it. it was actually coined by napoleon, and his use of the term was derogatory. what he said was he wanted government to be aware when bayonets think. quote was applied to union veterans, and the first time i could find was in 1861 in "the new york daily tribune" it was positive from beginning. it has always been a positive attribute. the term "thinking bayonets" applies to union generals. in relation to lincoln's reelection -- it is our gloria pride that the union has been upheld by million thinking banayonets.

when people talk let union soldiers, their sometimes all lumped together. i will make the point that the relative amount of material that has been written, discussed. paintings. their disproportionately confederate. one of my missions is to change that and point out that the real rebels of the civil war were union soldiers. not confederates. i will explain as i go along. who were union soldiers? nearly 2.5 million of them were white americans. this was truly the people's army. the demographics of the union army were predominantly civilian volunteers, civilian soldiers, and on presented -- unprecedented size of diversity.

of the white soldiers, abruptly one quarter where foreign born, from germany ireland, and canada. they were extremely literalte. and their backgrounds were interesting. about a quarter were laborers. abraham lincoln, who had a tremendous affinity for union soldiers made a distinction in a message to congress in 1861, and he pointed out that was in any regiment, you could find scarcely one for which could not be selected a president, a cabinet, a congress, and perhaps a court. he was absolutely right. several presidents came out of the union armies. they went into congress. they joined professions

physicians, lawyers, engineers. that was indeed a correct assumption. there are some other assumptions about confederate and union soldiers. one of them is the perception that confederate soldiers had nothing to do with slavery. and a pioneering book, a study of the army in northern virginia, it was found that nearly half of the volunteers have lived with slaveholders. he concluded that the vast majority of volunteers and 18 six e1 had a direct connection to slavery. for slave holder and non-slave holder of light, slavery late at the heart of the nation. the second perception is a romanticization of the relationship between union soldiers and confederate soldiers. brothers under the skin that fundamentally disagreed on one

issue. i'm sorry, that is not what happened. confederate soldiers of abhorred northern soldiers for the most part. southern soldiers view of union soldiers, bearing in mind, largely white at that point, was largely racial hatred. they saw them as invaders, vandals, mercenaries. the findings were paralleled by another academic. so who were the northern white soldiers? one was a painter. he felt, as did millions of others, that the demand for american liberty must go out at night, so that coming g

generations do not reproach us. he joined the massachusetts -- his right arm suffered. i forgot one disclaimer i had to mention. why views are my own. they do not represent the view of the public. the second way i will make is i will be using verbatim quotes. i do not change quotes. they are reflective of the times and attitudes of the times. as john mentioned, unless i say differently, every time a soldier was wounded, that soldier lost the use of the right arm or right hand. a lieutenant was a physician before the war, but not in the medical corps.

the object of the war was restoring a republican or democratic government. he talks about the difference between monarchy and a republic. the union soldiers had almost a religious belief in the republican system of government. they weren't looking to save the union per se, as they were looking to save the concept of a republic. it is very interesting when you look at that. the first two years of the war they were almost exclusively white, as you can imagine. african-americans were serving in the navy of the united states. they weren't banned from the navy, but there was a 5% quota and for the most part they were officers. once african americans were able to enlist, approximately 180,000 served, along with about 7100 white officers. of the african-americans that started to serve in 1863 and on a little over half came

from confederate states, another quarter came from border states or slave states that state in the union. only 20% of african american soldiers came from northern free states. the percentage of whether they had been former slaves or free man of color, the best estimate i can find seems to be accurate. about two thirds of african-american soldiers were former slaves. the dominantly illiterate, as you know, nothing was more dangerous than educated slave. frederick douglas of course point that out. the other third were predominantly free men of color from the north. the motivations for african american soldiers were very different if they were former slaves versus free men of color. former slaves were literally fighting for their own freedom. an example that was private john

henry. with the exception of a few states, most notably nasa chooses, most african-americans served under the u.s.ct -- u.s. colored troops. takepikney had been a slave. he listed in baltimore in july 1863, with the hopes of gaining liberty. he did not write that. that was written for him by a white soldier who served with african american troops. they work together in a hospital in new york and in both suffered amputations.

he eventually lost his right leg in 1854. although, a devastating wound picknkney viewed as a sacrifice he was willing to make. saying he lost it for the generations to come. for freed man of color, the motivation was different. they went slaves. many knew nothing about slavery. they were predominantly free men of color in the north. freeman of color in a racist north. bearing in mind that only six northern states -- in only six northern states the african-americans vote in 1861. and many of those states, cap property requirements. one of the men who lives in a state where he couldn't vote was robert. he wanted to enlist in 1861, but

the government of ohio would nt allow it. he wrote, i was very eager to become a soldier. an amazing statement. free black soldiers, they served to achieve citizens of and voting rights -- citizenship and voting rights for themselves and other african-americans. he was finally given the chance to an list in 1863. he enlisted in the 100 twice seven ohio, which became the fifth u.s.sct. he would be one of the first african-americans to be awarded a medal of honor. whether they were freeborn or ex slaves, all black soldiers face the same challenges. unequal pay which i will discuss in some detail. there was a question as to whether they would be allowed to fight. if they would be used as laborers.

pervasive racism both in the government, and certainly with white soldiers overall. they were given no opportunity in the beginning to gain credentials. and fifth, perhaps worst of all if you will, they knew that if they are captured alive, they faced the threat of being taken back or into slavery, or killed. the relationship between the league administration and northern free like soldiers had difficulties. they focus on two major issues. the first was unequal pay. to his credit, secretary of war stanton attempted from the beginning to ensure the african american soldiers what has equal pay with white enlisted men, $13 per month, three of which was for clothing. the militia act of congress specified that black soldiers only be paid 10 dollars per

month and only used and paid as laborers, not soldiers. you can imagine how this would sit with proud freed men of color from the north. one wrote the president in september 1863 asking whether he and his congress were soldiers or laborers. they prove themselves in battle, and had done a soldiers duty why can't we have a soldiers pay? the pay and equity -- in equity was solved with armies appropriation bill of 1864, notably passed after african american troops had show their tremendous valor and dedication in places such as fort wagner and other battlefields. it was not until 1855, march 1865, that those who had been enslaved in the time of their enslavement were given the

same benefits, including back pay. i'm sure you remember that great scene from "glory" where they refuse pay, and that is accurate. you can imagine the hardship of african-american families when they refused to accept pay that were lower than white troops. they literally had to go back to my invite societies to be accepted while they were in the field. the other thing was the fact that they cannot become officers. it had, interestingly enough ua positive benefit. this is one case where bigotry became a benefit, believe it or not. people believe that african-americans were inferior. this option was the only way black soldiers would become black exemplary soldiers is if they had white officers. what they did though was interesting.

they put the candidates through essentially a candidate school. predominantly high ranking noncommissioned white experience soldiers were put through much more rigorous examination and training. as it turned out, the quality of the officers in the african-american regiments quite frankly, where much better than the white regiments. be that as it may, free men of color represented the fact that they could not become officers. that was something that james henry also mentioned in some of his writings. by the end of the war approximately 100 men of color were giving commissioners predominantly in the 54th massachusetts, and chaplains. is when the charges of the war -- among the hundreds of thousands of judges, if you will -- that the quality of pay

someone never got to see the benefit of that. he was killed in florida, holding the flag of a country that denied him citizenship, equal pay, and the ability to become a n officer. but, the country had one last given them the chance to fight. up among the biggest sector, a chaned the views of white soldiers. after his right arm had been at the data, he saw prisoners in a field, guarded by colored soldiers in a double file. this gave me the greatest satisfaction. i forgot my suffering.

a month before, a man of the second vermont wrote commissioners were white, but a negro is never commission. an unreasonable compromise. how did the better it -- the confederate soldiers reacted like soldiers in blue? in one word, it was lethal. under the 1907 regulations on land said there was no porter given when confederate troops met union troops. southern soldiers first killed, wounded, or surrendered as a matter of course. although that practice became the confederacy's official policy, however, it became a

defect oh policy by default because it was condoned, it was condoned, never punish, and always denied. of course to the most a infamous examples were from tennessee and virginia. the only civil war battles in which quarter was refuse was with black soldiers. the black soldiers and their white officers knew all too well what this meant. colonel thomas higginson, who commanded the first south carolina proposed exclusively former slaves, that we all felt we thought with ropes around our necks. other union soldiers knew exactly what was going on. a commander row, a little to the right, negroes occupied the trenches. master and slave me on equal

terms, and the possib hostility is implacable. they both fight without session. there is retribution and justice. doris was an abolitionist from the beginning. most white union soldiers were not. they were democrats when they listed. that changed tremendously. of course, abraham lincoln had a lot to do with that. while history was being made bruce patton noted the incredible sight of hardened soldiers going up to battle and boating for more war to be far by itself, instead of an end to fighting. the men who voted for it -- it was disproportionately for lincoln -- that vote for lincoln was not just of over lincoln, it

was a vote for emancipation, and a vote of confidence in the commander-in-chief, and frankly a vote of confidence in themselves, the soldiers they had become. lincoln had a relationship with the men of the union that is probably unique among all commanders in chief. what's interesting is that was east and west, even though lincoln never went to the west. always in the east. we see davis's tremendous book on lincoln and union soldiers and he said, he didn't go west because the armies in the west were victorious. there was no reason. i tend to agree. the armies of the potomac, a magnificent army that generally never got the leadership they deserve, except for three days in pennsylvania and towards the end of war. his visits were welcome. he knew the army of the potomac. he knew them, and they knew him. one example is a man of

pennsylvania. he saw lincoln in 1862 before he would lose his right forearm at fredericksburg. mcclellan was a good-looking man, slender man on horseback. he said he could do everything with his army but leader. my comment. lincoln was rather awkward. i would refuse that he lost his right arm, he came to washington to recuperate, and visited the white house and other places of interest. think about that. guy just walked in and literally saw the president. it is mind-boggling. he met lincoln at the hospital and talked about the honor that it was to see lincoln. he paid her soul respect to each man, gave them a word and shut their hand -- shook their hand.

the men loved him. may god bless and. five days later, john books booth would fire a single bullet to the back of lincoln's head. now, people talk about the assassination. what is really talked about is how the men of the union responded to the assassination. one great example of that is from one of the divisions of the army of the potomac. major chamberlin, who, the academics among you, when you go on sabbatical, generally don't go to war. that is what chamberlin did. he was posed to go to europe and instead he went to war. he had literally just come back from mathematics, he received a telegram that he read, in utter disbelief, about lincoln's death

and the first thought that chamberlin had was how are my men going to respond? he got all of his office is in, he informed his offices of these as a nation, he swears that the secrecy -- talk about irony. chamberlin felt they could be trusted to bear any blow but this. it takes little to rouse them to revenge. right before them was the city, and eas inviting form of vengeance. he did not have to worry. he was dealing with professionals. the way they mourned lincoln was very telling. spontaneously they draped tents and finds in black. they honored him the same way they had honored other comrades. the were mourning lincoln, so

much as a president, but as another veteran or fallen in the civil war. as they waited for the priest to give the memorial address, they stack their arms and planted the fifth corps symbol on the mound in honor of lincoln. this was replicated in other regiments, in other parts of virginia. the regimental color draped the flags and mourning. where the african american troops? robert pins regiment, when one of their offices got the word, two days after lincoln dying on the 15th, he heard a rumor of an assassination. five days later it was confirmed. he talked about the