we have not found a way yet in my opinion to effectively stop or even slow it down. and it is more than a law enforcement, it is more than an fbi mission, but it certainly is an -- and an fbi mission. but just last week, we learned about a 47-year-old air force veteran, who tried to join isis, and before his apprehension, tarod pugh worked for a number of american firms overseas including a u.s. defense firm in iraq for whom pugh performed of avionics on u.s. aircraft. we had several stories like that that appeared. is there a magic bullet to try to get at that kind of problem?

that fbi can do? >> there isn't a magic bullet. it is, to us, it is about a full court press making sure that we are -- that we have sources where we need them to be, that we have the capability, both the know how and technical capability to play in the online space where they're meeting and recruiting and radicalizing and we're closely connected to state and local partners. they're far more likely to hear about a guy leaving a community and going to syria and we're connected with our intelligence partners and foreign partners who are trip wires for us. what happened with that guy is the egyptians spotted him when he was sent back from turkey, alerted us, then were able to lay hands on him. >> let me switch completely to the prescription drug problem. which has been devastating in my part of the state and the country. particularly oxycontin. but now that we're beginning to

make a dent in the pill mills, closing them down in florida, and georgia and other places, and finally getting fda to change the formulation of drugs like oxycontin, to make them nonabused, a lot of the country is shifting to heroin. and the drug cartels in mexico, i'm hearing, are now getting into the pill business because of the enormous profits there. what can you tell us about that? >> i think you've identified something that doesn't get the attention it deserves. we have seen -- dea has the lead here, but we do a lot to support them. i know a fair bit about this. we see the mexican traffickers increasingly shifting to heroin. white heroin. used to be brown heroin was

coming out of mexico. white heroin, highly pure and pushing it into the united states to gain market share and so what is happening is as you said, mr. chairman, it is supplanting pill abuse because it is cheaper, easier to get and it is extraordinarily deadly because the people using it, sounds like an odd thing to say, but don't know how to use heroin. don't realize it is 93, 97% pure so kids and adults and people of all walks of life are dying all over the country. i see it sweeping south and west. i became fbi director, 18 months ago, heard about it in the northeast, sort of the north central. now i'm hearing about it everywhere i go for economic reasons. it is cheap and the traffickers are pushing it in. so we're spending a lot of time trying to work, again, with dea and local partners to disrupt the traffickers to impose costs on them so we can shorten the supply and drive the price up so we don't have all -- i think there were 6,000 deaths from

heroin overdose or more in the united states last year. so we can push those number of tragedies down. >> still, more people are dying from prescription pill abuse than car wrecks. so even though part of the country is switching to heroin, it is still -- the pills are still a big problem. and in a good part of the country. mr. chairman, i've abused my time. >> not at all. >> quickly, and finally, cyberthreats. where are we? >> cyber is a feature of every threat that the fbi is responsible for. we see -- i describe it as an evil layer cake. at the top level, you have nation state actors who are looking to break into our corporate systems, our government systems to steal all kinds of information for their economic advantage or for intelligence advantage. and then we have organized criminal groups, very sophisticated hackers, looking to steal americans' information for criminal purposes.

then we have got all manner of thugs and criminals and pedophiles down below. and the reason is obvious. our lives are there. my kids play on the internet. it is where we bank. it is where health care is. it is where our critical infrastructure is. those who do harm to children or money or credit card information or banks or critical infrastructure, that's where they come. so there isn't a single cyberthreat it is a feature of everything that the fbi is responsible for. and it is the bad guys have shrunk the world, right, because belarus is next door to birmingham on the internet. so we're working very hard to shrink it back. so i can forward deploy my cyberexperts to make the globe smaller, so we can impose some costs. right now, everybody thinks it is a freebie to steal americans' information. we have to impose costs on these people. even though they're in their pajamas halfway around the world, they're afraid to break into an american's life and steal what matters to us. >> do we have absolute evidence,

absolute proof that these attacks, many of these attacks are from states? countrys? >> yes. >> governments? >> yes. >> military? >> military intelligence. >> russia? >> russia is a significant player in cyberintrusions as is china, obviously. two huge operators in that world. >> we have proof that russia and china and other governments are attacking our country's cyberinformation databases. >> yes. >> what are we doing about it? >> well, a lot of different things. only some of which i can talk about here. one of the things we're trying to do is name it and shame it. we did it last year by indicting five members of the people's liberation army and publicizing them on posters who were stealing information from american companies, stealing our ideas and innovation. and people say indicting them

won't do any good, you won't catch them. we have many flaws at the fbi because we're humaned, but we're dogged and never say never. people like to travel, like to have their children educated in the united states or europe, never say never. we're trying to impose costs and part of the cost is the naming, calling it out, the chinese are stealing our innovation, our ideas, our creativity, our jobs. >> in fact, it was this subcommittee, frank wolf, the chairman, many years ago, first brought attention to foreign governments hacking into his files and he sort of led the way. but, boy, it has come a long way and i'm not satisfied at all we're doing what we need to do to try to stop it. or counteract it. thank you, mr. director. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> it is a top priority for us on this subcommittee, keen interest to all of us in the

congress, but particular interest to me and work that you've done. i've had a chance to come out here, some of the work in a classified setting, it is very impressive. and to the -- what advice could you, before we move on, very quickly, if you could, tell the american public out there listening just some good basic rules to protect themselves good hygiene practices to -- against cyberattack on their own computers or smartphones. >> folks should exercise the prudence wandering around the electronic neighborhood as they would any other neighborhood. i say people -- i've tried to train my children on this. they cross the parking lot at night, they're alert. they walk a certain way. they lock their car. people should behave the same way on the internet. it is a bigger neighborhood, a bigger parking lot. >> more dangerous. >> and in some ways, more dangerous. what i tell folks is very simple. an e-mail is a knock on your front door.

opening the attachment to an e-mail is opening your front door. you would never open your front door without looking through your peephole and seeing what's there. all the time, folks get an e-mail and they open the attachment and their whole life can be stolen in that moment. also, know where your children are. you know where your children go to play. at least i do. and folks need to know what are other kids doing on the internet. where are they going? who are they interacting with? it is parenting and common sense we exercise in all aspects of our lives except when we sit at a keyboard which makes no sense at all because we just made the entire world our neighbors when you sit behind the keyboard. >> and in a hearing in a classified setting with some of your cyberfolks that 80% of protecting yourself against a cyberattack is good hygiene. like washing your hands after a meal or some of the basic things you have just mentioned to us. thank you, director. mr. honda? >> thank you, mr. chairman.

director comb director, thank you for coming here today to testify before the subcommittee. as you know, a key toll in combatting crime is the use of combined dna system or codous. codous blends forensic science with computer technology to accurately identify suspects and assist. it is successful prosecution of criminals. last year's budget hearing i brought up the nationwide backlog of untested sexual assault kits, around 500,000. shortly after that hearing, nancy o'malley and your office began discussions about the backlog that occurs prior to upload of codous. and i'm pleased that the fbi laboratory staff met with the da several times regarding the pilot project that made facility to codous upload of dnc profiles linked to suspects of accused sexual assault crimes. and having said that, i just want to add also my thanks to the past chairman, frank wolf, who really carried us and helped

us see it entirely through. the fy15 cjs appropriate included $45 million of just the first point of the backlog in police evidence rooms. i'm hoping that will continue to program in fy16. i'm aware in is outside of your purview, but i wanted you to know we're committed to this issue. i encourage you and your staff to continue to work with them on the pilot project that will focus on another point of the backlog that is the technical review of government labs by private labs. now i would like to turn to the second point of how the backlog can be addressed. mainly the implementation of rapid dna instruments in the police booking stations. i'm a firm believer in having an

arrestee, while he's still in the environment, that will reduce the burden on the government labs. i hope that you'll be able to continue. i raised this issue last year as well. i know that the fbi is supportive of rapid dna technology, but since last year's budget hearing tell me what progress has been made to amend the laws, protocols and policies to allow the use of rapid dna instruments in police booking stations. and once the relevant requirements have been amended, what is your proximate timeline for implementing the rapid dna instruments. 4 >> thank you, mr. honda and thank you for your continued focus on the rape kit backlog. there are rapists out there who will victimize more woman and

the key to stopping them sits on a lot of shelves in a police departments. so i appreciate your focus on that. and i promise you we'll remain focused on it as well. with respect to rapid dna we're big fans of the capability of being in booking rooms, that a sample can be taken when someone is arrested and uploaded immediately. i've talked to my dna experts. they have continued to work with the companies -- there's a private company enterprise you know making these devices, to give them guidance on what will be needed to make it able to connect to our database in a way that preserves the sterling reputation of our database. my folks tell me there's all kind of challenges making sure that we have the right software and hardware to connect the devices. but good progress is being made. they think we're two to three years away of being in a place where this is a common feature. even in our biggest cities. understand it does require legislative authorization. that is -- i don't know exactly

sitting here today where that sits inside the executive branch. i think with the office of management and budget being looked at for privacy reasons -- for privacy issues, but that is -- both are marching along at the same time. the technical fix and the legislative fix. that's my understanding today. >> because we have to understand that there's 500,000 kits, 500,000 cases that's being left without the great evidence that dna will provide. so victims and arrestees are at bay in order to get their justice. and i think the quicker we move and be able to implement this then we can reduce these backlogs and have people really enjoy the benefits of our technology but also our rapid response to justice.

mr. chairman, if i may just indulge with one quick question. i just wanted to thank you very much for adding to the fbi training manual, which will include the guidance to assist law enforcement identify in reporting hate crimes directed at six arabs and hindus. and i think that's going to be able to, you know, produce a great deal of information. i do have a concern, though, about the comment that you had made last month on race and policing. you said that it's ridiculous that i can't tell you how many people were shot by the police last week, last month, last year. and may be taken out of context. but that is a quote. so as i understand it currently police departments can on a voluntary basis report incidents to the data that the fbi keeps on justifiable homicide. this, however, is problematic.

according to one justice department statistician quoted, in a news article said the fbi's justifiable homicide and arrested related deaths both have limitations in terms of coverage and reliability that are primarily due to agency participation. can you discuss what the situation is currently with voluntarily reporting and what approaches we could take to get better data? it's a very high level of public notice. >> i agree very much. it wasn't out of context. i think it's ridiculous that i can't tell you with any confidence how many people were shot by the police in any period of time. yesterday, last week last year. because we don't have uniform reporting that's universal. not all police departments -- we have 17,000 police departments in the united states that are

not all reporting to us violent encounters with suspects, so i don't have any confidence in my data. what i meant was, i think it's ridiculous, i can tell you how many books were sold on amazon how many people went to the hospital with the flu last week but we don't have data. every encounter is uninformed in this country and that's a crazy place to be. so what i'm doing is it is a voluntary system. it requires the support of local and state law enforcement. and so i'm working with the sheriffs and the chiefs who all agree with me to give us this data. what do you need for us to be able to help you give the data? we're going to be talking to congress more down the road on are there incentives that congress can offer to give us the data. but we're not in a good place now. and it's one of the things i'm trying to do after the speech i gave to try to improve the records. >> perhaps through our good chairman that we might be able to look at this and see if we can be of assistance to help the

fbi to acquire the information. can because voluntary reporting of police shootings, it just doesn't seem to be acceptable, especially in today's environment and the kinds of things that we know, what's going on or what's not going on in our country right now. >> we'll explore that and also the level of, you know, violence of course police officers encounter every day in their difficult and dangerous work on our behalf. let me recognize the state of mississippi and our newest member, mr. palazzo. >> thank you, mr. chairman. before i get into questions, i would briefly like to express my gratitude and appreciation to the appropriations committee and members of congress -- our conference for allowing me to serve in the seat. our friend and colleague alan nunnelee held. i know everyone who knew him is heart broken of his passing. although i do not believe his shoes can be filled, i hope to serve the committee with the best interest of the united states in mind just as our good

friend alan did for four years. with that said, director comey, i appreciate you being here and appreciate the sacrifices that your people, the magic in your agency as you so eloquently said provides for, you know, our security and protection here at home. and i'm sorry for your loss, too, as well as the three fbi agents you mentioned. we too have lost a u.s. marshal in josie wells in the past month and he's from south mississippi. it was in the line of duty and he left a wife and unborn child to carry on his legacy. so we know what y'all sacrifice day in and day out and some of the best people in the world serve in our law enforcement. i would like to follow up real quick on, you know, chairman rogers mentioned, he brought up china. and china is in from armed services and homeland security, my former committees always pique my curiosity. they seem to be aggressively

building up their military and their space capabilities. and it sounded -- i don't want to put words in your mouth -- that we know china, the government of china is involved in cyberattacks on american -- on the american government and american enterprise. and so knowing that and just indicting five individuals to expose them and shame them, i don't think it really works with china, since they have the consent of their government. so with that, how do we counter the -- what would you recommend to us on how we counter the cyber threats both certainly and externally. you can focus on china or an unnamed country if you don't quantity to pound on them. i would just like to hear your thoughts. >> i may have misspoken. the three lives that were lost were police officers, one state trooper and two local police officers.

it doesn't make any difference. it's still great people lost in the line of duty. the question about what can be done more broadly about them is that even if it was the fbi's lane, we wouldn't discuss it in open forum. we're trying to make sure that our responsibility is to investigate cyber intrusions to the united states to make sure that our government has a full understanding of who's doing what so we can figure out as a country what to do about it. one of the things that we have been involved in is bring criminal charges against some of those actors as part of a toolbox approach to try to change behavior with the chinese. there are a lot of things that are beyond the fbi that i know has gone on, diplomatic, for example, and as part of a lot of

international forums. our government is trying to adopt some norms to get the chinese to go along with them. but it is my function, the fbi's to understand what they're doing, develop the facts and then show our government here's what we see. >> i understand, you know, that the cyber threat is real and i think congress and the american people are recognizing that it's real and it's clear and present danger. i hope we're doing everything that we can as members of congress to provide your agency as well as others with the resources to counter this threat. because not just illegally downloading music, but it's of huge fear that if they engage in some form of cyber attack that it could cripple our critical infrastructure. the last thing i would want to see the the lights go out and your atm doesn't work, your navigation on your car and phone. i think it would cause a huge amount of panic in our country. you also mentioned something

about the siren song of the radical islamist. and these people that you mentioned, we don't really see them. they're not obvious to us to a large extent because they were in their basements consuming this form of poison. can you, i guess lack of a better word, profile what this person would be? is there a certain something about their demographics that make me vulnerable to this poison? i agree, it is a poison and we don't need our young -- we don't need anybody in america consuming it. >> yeah. in a way i wish i could. that's one of the challenge of this threat, is when we talk about travelers, the people that we know who have gone to syria to hook up with isil range from 18 to 62. they're from any part of the

country, any background. they were either raised in islamic faith or are converts who then -- but they may have all different kinds of background, be all different places in the state, consume this and develop the view that this is how they find meaning in the life. the one come on characteristic they have is they are people who are troubled souls seeking meaning in life. there's not a poverty marker, right? some of them have jobs. they just have a misguided sense that they node to participate in the apocalyptic battle. some of them are kind of losers who have had trouble with jobs or petty crimes. but there's not a pattern. we've studied it very closely in search of the pattern but so far i can't offer you one. >> thank you. >> briefly on the point about china, the back door, a trojan horse can be created into a computer system with a piece of software that you might be able

to detect or it can be hard wired into a computer device, a computer chip as a piece of hardware and it's invisible and you can't see it. the problem is so bad with the chinese in general and these chinese-owned companies in australia, the australian government prohibited recently the purchase of any wawe telecommunications equipment by any governmental empty in australia. let me recognize at this time mr. aderholt and the state of alabama. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good to be here today and for this hearing. thank you for mentioning what we do down in alabama. we appreciate the -- huntsville and also in birmingham. i met with some of the folks from the birmingham facility just recently.

and one of the things that we talked about whereby they had mentioned to me was that the new iphone, new iphone 6s have an encryption in it that you can't get into the -- they're encrypted and there's no back door key. and just wanted to know what -- and of course this is different from their predecessors. the other phones they were able to get into. what is the fbi's position on both apple and google's decision to encrypt these smartphones? >> we have a huge problem where we in law enforcement, local, state, federal, and national, when we have court processes judges issue search warrants or interception warrants, we're unable to execute on those orders. because the device is locked or the communications are encrypted. and so we're drifting to a place where a whole lot of people are going to look at us with tears

in their eyes and say, what do you mean you say you can't? my daughter is missing. what do you mean you can't tell me who she was texting with before she disappeared. i tell people, we're a democracy. maybe that's where we want to go but i think we have to have a conversation in this country about where we're going. i don't want back doors. i want with court process the ability to gather evidence after i've shown probable cause to believe on that device is evidence of a crime. the fourth amendment is clearly in play and i follow it and i get authority. we need to discuss if we're going to a place where we can't get access. it's a huge feature. we're discussing it with -- sheriffs and chiefs raise it with me everywhere in the country. these are important in domestic violence cases, child exploitation, car wrecks and i don't know exactly what the answer s but it's something we have to talk about. >> so, you know, you mentioned about the mother shows you the phone and say you can't get into it. what programs has it affected and can you just let us know the damage that it's done to the fbi?

>> yeah. it's a feature of -- we've encountered it in drug cases. all of our work we've encountered it. i'm not in a position to offer percentage or a number. but sit a feature now, an obstacle in a huge number of our criminal investigations. it will only become worse and worse. i've heard tech executives say, privacy should be the paramount vir tube. when i hear that i close my eye and say, try to imagine what that world looks like. pedophiles can't be seen, drug dealers can't be seen. kidnappers can't be seen. i hear it as you heard from the folks in birmingham, i hear it all over the country, we're drifting to a place and not talking about it. >> do you need additional resources to work on this? what can we as this committee do or congress do to try to help you with this? >> i think one of the things that the administration is working on right now is what would a legislative response look like that would allow us again, not in a sneaky way but

with court process to get access to the evidence. it's complicated because it involves communications carriers and device makers. but ultimately i think it's going to require a legislative fix, that if you want to do business in this country we're about the rule of law, but we don't want to -- there's no safe deposit box that can't be opened with authority. there's no car trunk that can't be opened with authority. we're getting to a place where these huge spaces are beyond the reach of court authority and i think it's going to take a legislative fix. >> so if i understand you, it's really not a matter of resources, it's really just a legislative fix overall that this needs to be dealt with? >> i think that's right. i think we as a democracy need to figure out, so what are the tradeoffs associated with the privacy interests and what are the public safety interests and how do we reconcile them? it's really, really hard but it's not splitting the atom. we do hard stuff and i think it's a conversation we have to have. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman.

>> the chairman asked a great question. i would like for you to talk to us about that court case that came out of the supreme court recently where the phone was seized as part of a routine police arrest and the police picked up the phone and looked at it and the guy said, you can't look at it. talk to us a little about that case and what we can do. for example, can't apple see what's on here under a court order? couldn't you get it from appear snl. >> no. the iphone 6 is designed so that apple is unable to unlock it so it becomes the safe deposit box with no second key. the judge can't order access to it. so it's very, very -- >> let me add there, if i understand it, apple voluntarily made the decision to fix it so the user is unable to lock it and they're not able? >> that's correct. >> that's correct. and apple, i'm not trying to pick on the folks at apple or google.

their view they're responding to competitive pressures. people want to have a zone of privacy. and so do i. but to have a zone of privacy that's outside the reach of the law is very concerning. but, mr. chairman, with respect to the court case, the fbi -- our practice has always been to get search warrants for devices. that makes good sense to me especially given that i don't have a phone with me. all of our lives are there. it's no longer a phone. it's a suitcase carrying your kids' pictures and your documents. there was good sense to me in the supreme court's reasons that this is difference than it used to be so it should have fourth amendment implications. that's the way we treat it. if i want to look at your phone without your consent, i will go to a judge, show probable cause, get a court order, and if i can get the phone open, i'll look at it. the challenge is our inability to access it even with a court order. >> if i could follow up with one more question. have you heard -- there's a

rumor that apple has made an agreement with china about this as a precondition to selling their phones there. >> i don't know anything about that. >> thank you. >> judge carter has dealt with this quite a bit as a district court judge. >> mr. chairman -- >> i recognize my colleague from texas, chairman carter. >> there is a way forward, right? so if life or liberty is in jeopardy and my daughter is missing, i want you to get into the phone. if it's a matter that doesn't involve life or liberty, i'm interested in the right to privacy and the protections of people's personal papers and so on. we can find our way forward and i think that the director is correct that there may need to be legislative activity that kind of -- because the people we represent have some interest in privacy. and which is why these companies are trying to produce a product

that gives them that privacy. but we also need to protect public safety. if there's a terrorist that has a bomb and you need to track where they are via their cell phone, we want to be able to do it. so, we have to find the wisdom of solomon, which is why it's good the judge is up next. >> you're not going to get away from me that way. i'm chairman of homeland security appropriations. i serve on defense subcommittees. we have all of the national defense issues with cyber. and now on this wonderful committee so cyber is just pounding me from every direction. and every time i hear something, something pops into my head, because i don't know anything about this stuff. if they can do that to a cell phone, why can't they do that to every computer in the country and nobody can get into it? if that's the case the solution to the invaders from around the world that are trying to get in

here. and if that gets to be the wall and even the law can't penetrate it, then aren't we creating an instrument as the perfect tool for lawlessness? this is a very interesting conundrum that's developing in the law. if they can -- if they at their own will at microsoft can put something in a computer -- or at apple, can put something in that computer, which is what it is, to where nobody but that owner can open it then why can't they put it in the big giant super computers that nobody but that owner can open it and everything gets locked away secretly? and that sounds like a solution to this great cyber attack problem we've got, but in turn, it allows those who would do harm to have a great tool to do harm where law enforcement can't reach it. this is a problem that's got to be solved. and if you're following the bill of rights, you have every right

to be able to go before a judge, present your probable cause and if he sees that that's right, get a warrant and get into that machine. and i don't think there's a right of privacy issue in the world that prevents you following the law to do that. and so if that's what they've created, they've created a monster that will harm law enforcement, national security and everything else in this country. and this really needs to be addressed. and i wasn't going to talk about that but that upsets the heck out of me. i don't think that's right. >> judge, if i could ask you b and director comey, can you pitch in if you had a case in front of you where there was evidence that there was evidence in a crime in a safe that was locked and only the owner had the combination to the safe how would you handle that? >> if they bring in an affidavit with probable cause and i find

that they've got probable cause, we're going to give them the right to make the search. and if he's made it search proof and even the guy that created the monster can't get in there, that's bad policy. >> there's no safe like that in the world. >> you can crack a safe, right? you get a court order, you go crack the safe. >> that's right. but if you can't crack the safe, which is what they've created here, that's a real crisis. >> the analogy seems valid. doesn't it? it's like a safe that's locked up holding evidence of a crime. >> those issues of privacy are protected by that bill of rights. >> yeah. that's a great question. >> mr. chairman -- >> i knew we would find wisdom from the judge. >> the question i would ask them is, the distinction i would ask to the chair, to the administrator is this, that if you get a court order, the court order would be a court order for hard line. you could get a court order for tapping the line. we can now get a court order to

tap into information that's used with a digital phone. accessing information in a digital phone that has what we might want to call our intelligence also, accessing that would be like accessing a person under oath, any information that they may have inside of them. so we may have to look at the kind of legislation that equates our intelligence in trying to access our own privacy. so there would be a sanction if we lie under oath. and if we have a choice now of opening up our own phone and even the company can't do that, yeah, i would just try to make a distinction -- >> i am yielding my time. let him talk. he's a nice guy. >> thank you. i'm trying to make a distinction

between the kinds of laws that we write, we author, in one set of technology when we're looking at artificial intelligence and we're looking at another kind of technology where we can make safe our own information, accessing that is going to have to have another kind of -- another level of thought like we had to do with the accessing and tapping into technology. a safe is -- safe is still the old technology. [ inaudible ] >> if you have access to a phone that the individual who bought it can open up, that you can have certain kinds of force of law that would require them to be able to testify -- >> it's an interesting question. forgive us, judge. >> i just wanted to raise that. thank you, judge. >> it is a really interesting conversation chairman aderhold

started here and i'm glad to get the judge's wisdom on this. >> the other question i wanted to ask you, last time we were here you said one of the things you were concerned about is am i going to be able to get in the workforce the quality of people that i need in this cyber war that we're facing. how are you doing on being able to recruit the intelligent workforce that it takes to go off in the special area of national security and crime? how effective have you been since our last conversation? it's one of the things you expressed last time you were here, and i wanted to give you a chance to say how effective you've been and what can we do to make you more effective? >> thanks, judge. pretty good. but it's too early for me to give you a high confidence read. i've just been climbing out of my gap -- my hole from sequestration, so we've been hiring lots and lots of people. so far, so good. and they're staying. once you get to do public service, it becomes addictive, even if a lot of other companies are throwing a lot of dough at

you. so my cyber attrition rates are very low. folks are getting in and realizing it's fun to do good for a living. but it's early. i don't want to sound overconfident. we should talk again in a year when i have a full, say, two years of data. >> this is not only the issue you've got, but homeland security is looking at this issue too. one of the question has come up for us to discuss is what are the opportunities to contract with these people who have these firms that all they do is this kind of work and maybe is that something that government can do effectively and safely, protecting government's interest, subcontract some of the work to the great computer wizards of our world. that's something we need to be thinking about and we're looking at it right now in homeland security, as to whether or not that is a safe and appropriate thing to do, to subcontract. that's something you might think about. i was in a room full of these

smart people yesterday morning for breakfast, and i understood about every fifth word. thank you. >> thank you, judge. >> it's complicated. it's an incredibly complex universe of computer out there. i'll recognize the state of washington, ms. butler. >> thank you. and i have a three -- i have three pieces here and i'm going to make them as brief as possible. i appreciate your time. i'm going to start with -- i'm going to start on a different track and kind of come back to cyber because, you know, why not mix it up? actually, this does have a relation. in your submitted testimony you mentioned the internet facilitated sexual exploitation of children as an evolving threat that your agency is facing. as you know there are thousands of children every year through sites like backpage.com and other internet sites that are sold. backpage and other sites have acknowledged the existence of

prostitution and sexual exploitation and of minors on their sites. and these sites are a complement -- accomplices of basically promoting prostitution and exploitation of minors. i want to know where the fbi -- has the fbi prosecuted any of these companies for knowingly permitting the exploitation of girls and young women on their sites? >> it's a great question and a really important question because you're right. we're seeing an explosion of the abuse of kids through the internet and the selling of kids through the internet. the answer is yes. we have prosecuted the people behind an outfit, i think, called redbook that was in california. we locked up the proprietor running it one of these backpage.com outfits and that shut down the site. we may have taken civil action to shut down the site. so, yes, we have. >> follow up. since the online facilitated sexual exploitation of children

is a prioritized threat. help me understand your allocation to that area of investigations and how does the internet crimes against children program fund fit into that? >> we have task forces that focus on this -- i'm going to forget the number, but it's more than my number of field offices. so we have two in some places. we do this in every field office. we do an operation, i hope you've heard of, operation cross country. >> yes. >> where we work with state and local partners because it connects to this cyber stuff because a lot of ways in which we find people that are looking to exploit kids are through those advertisements, where we try to take down in a swoop a bunch of these people, rescue the kids and lock up -- i hate the word pimp because it sounds like some '70s comedy thing. these are slavers. we lock up the slavers.

i don't know the second part. i'll have to get back to you on the second part of your question where the internet crimes against children fund fits in. i'll go-v to get back to you. >> i'm glad you mentioned that operation cross country because i think the demand side -- you know, a lot of the work weave been doing, even at a state level s changing the perception. we've been much more successfully here federally. these are victims. we're talking about young children who have been brought into slavery, this form of slavery, trafficked and exploited. and what we have -- now we're turning our eyes to how do we beat the demand? how are these people prosecuted? there's nothing more frustrating than knowing a 17 or 16-year-old girl who has been prostituted is the one that faces the criminal penalty and a john walks free. it makes me -- it is infuriating to me. so your focus on the demand side, both these portals that these criminals are using -- and i agree pimp has almost been

romaticized in some areas, which is pathetic. but these johns, the slavers need to be the focus. and i think -- you said name and shame. that's another area and place. some of the people who are buying these children are people that at times are amongst us. switching, and this is an area we're going to continue to focus, so we may continue in follow-up with your staff and your team. cyber, this is my last question. premera blue cross in washington state had a real serious cyberattack last may by the but the company did not discover the breach until january of this year. and then upon the advice of the fbi and a cyber security firm the company waited until march 17th to provide notification of the attack. according to the information we've received to date about 11 million customers nationwide and about 6 million in washington

state, including my constituents, may have been compromised. so i guess i want to hear why did the -- why would the fbi recommend they wait to make that information public when we're talking about names, addresses, telephone number, social security numbers and in some case, medical history, banking, data, so on and so forth. >> thank you for that. i don't know the facts enough to know if it was january to march. but we do sometimes ask companies, hold off for a little while so we don't alert the bad guys. as soon as it becomes public, whoever is doing it goes underground. >> i would assume that's a 24-hour or two-day -- from the previous briefings that we've had with the cybersecurity division, that's not a two-month window. because if it is, we are not doing something right. >> that's why i don't know -- the two-month window seems odd to me, but it's more than a 24 hour. often it's a search for the ground zero computer, to see if we can find where the digital dust is from where the bad guys entered. and in a huge company, sometimes

that takes more than just a 24-hour period. but two months i don't fully understand so i'll get smarter about that. >> i would love a follow-up on that because that greatly concerns me. >> yep. >> thank you. i yield back. >> thank you for being here today. sitting here listening to these discussions all over the place, i have an almost 10-year-old and a 6-year-old, and the thought of one of my children going missing and you not being able to do anything about it because of what we already discussed is terrifying. null but i can say this, thank you for the work that you do for our country. and i just appreciate the challenges that you have. i'm new to the subcommittee. so i, too, am not an expert in cybersecurity by any stretch. it's like going to school every day to learn more about what you do and the challenges that you

face. i was in huntsville, i know you touched with mr. aderhold about birmingham and i know you mentioned huntsville when i wasn't here. but it was great to be at the new tdak facility. of course, i mean, they're like delivering furniture. it was not even completed. there were no bodies there yet and even some of the equipment. but it was fascinating for me to learn about what they're doing. this is the terrorists explosive device analytical center. and i also had the chance to stop by the hazardous devices school while i was there, which was great as well, where they train local law enforcement. so, i guess what i wanted to talk to you about some of the things that they mentioned as a challenge was personnel recruitment because just nationally it's difficult to find individuals that have the

expertise to be able to do this type of analysis on ieds and so i just wanted to talk about your budget request and where you see any shortfalls in personnel for this new facility. and, you know, what -- how we can make this vital center a reality. >> thank you so much for that. and i've too, visited there within the last eight weeks. i forget when i was there. and they were just -- i could smell the fresh paint. >> right, right. >> very exciting. because it will make a big difference. it will save lives. that place will literally save lives. the answer is, i think we're doing okay in terms of recruiting and hiring back. we were down many, many, many vacancy slots in the fbi as a result of sequestration. we hired about 2400 people last year. i'm trying to hire 3,000 this year. and then my budget request this year is simply about being able to sustain that. to hire those folks and then be

able to keep them on the job. i don't think i'm going to have a problem staffing tdac. i'm going to transfer people. i actually went down and met with our staff at quantico and said, wait until you visit huntsville. you'll think wait until i try to get you out of huntsville in about two years. so i don't think we'll have a problem. i think the committee has supported us well enough and it sounds corny enough to say, i'm lucky enough that the fbi has justifiably a strong identity in american life and people want to work for the fbi and do the kind of work we're doing in huntsville. so folks are banging down the door. i advertise for special agents and i get 20000 applications in two weeks. so i think we'll be okay there. >> and that is great to hear. talking about the hazardous devices school. i forget what they call it, but the staging areas. >> the villages. we blow stuff up in the

villages. >> and they want to expand that. it is an expensive, expensive school to operate because of what they are doing. and the equipment that they use. so if you could talk about that a little bit? >> there is such a demand for that. that is where we the fbi, train all state and local bomb teches in the united states. there are thousands of bomb technicians and they've been trained as the hazardous devices school. but to be trained, you need to work on buildings that have a real feel to them. that is what the areas are. there is a school and church. >> and they put the church next to the liquor store. >> they showed me the church, they didn't show me the liquor store. >> they tried to say it was like alabama. i wasn't going to accept that, so. okay. >> thanks to the support of this

committee and senator shelby's committee, i forget the number but to build additional villages -- how many? six villages. it is not a whole town but a cluster of villages. and the military as it is down-sizing is shrinking its commitment to the hazardous school and i think we're going to be okay there, was the verdict i got when i was there. >> thank you for the important work that you do and everybody that is with you on your team. we appreciate your commitment to our country and our safety. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you, miss roby. i wondered if i could follow up on one of the questions chairman rogers brought up about foreign fighters, mr. comby, they have

traveled to syria about 90 have traveled to syria to fight with the territory groups and i recognize this is classified about your identify to keep track of these folks, americans traveling over there and what can this sub-committee do to help you deal with that threat. >> it is a big feature of our work and enormously challenging. the number of 150 is the approximate number of americans that have travelled to syria in connection with the conflict. some have gone for humanitarian reasons, some have gone to associate with isil or the al-nusra front or other groups. so our challenges is even with we identify, what are they doing there? not everybody is going there went there to be a territory but we treat them like they are and we cover them like a blanket when they come back until we

understand it. our challenge is trying to make sure that with our partners in the intelligence community that we have the trip wires in place to spot americans who might be not just going toward that area of the world but heading toward syria. this is hard because there are thousands and thousands of americans every day that fly toward the mediterranean and turkey, for all manner of good reasons. so we need the help of our partners in the intelligence community and our foreign partners that spot those heading toward turkey and that relationship has gotten increasingly good. and here at home, i'm not confident that the 150 is 150 of 175, i'm only missing 25 or 150 of 300 i just don't know because it is nice in a free country of ours who might be traveling with bad purpose. and that comes into the research

online to spot them and in relationship with others. >> and we had homeland security and judge carter, how is tsa and homeland security doing and working with you and identifying and flagging these folks. what recommendations would you make to the chairman about what homeland should be doing. >> i think we are in good place with jbp. they are on our joint task force because they have the eyes at the border, outbound and inbound and so we are lashed up with them closely. one of the lessons of the boston marathon is we needed to make sure we were more in relationship with them, but it turns out to be cbp and i don't have a recommendation on improvement with that right now. >> my understanding, judge, and director that the united states doesn't have the ability to

track visas. if they overstay their visas, we are apparently not doing judge, and correct me if i'm wrong we are not tracking them. >> we don't have an exit policy right now. so if they overstay a visa they can overstay but they don't know if they've left or not. so that is -- that's a real problem. >> that is why i was asking the question, director. >> but that is not really where he's coming from. working together i think there is a good working relationship between the agencies and the fbi and others. our guys are doing a pretty decent job on the foreign side. we need an exit problem but it will start counting in the billions of dollars when we start doing it and that is the problem in this particular environment we are having right now. >> but you can spot them, if you flag their visa and spot them or

track their visa and homeland security can share that -- >> but we don't have an exit policy right now. but we don't know. >> but if we have an interest in someone we share that with cbp and a flag goes up. >> and we track those individuals. if we are tracking individuals we do that every day. but just the average joe that flies over here on a plane for a vacation if he stays -- >> or overstays. >> we don't know that he leaves. he could have left. we don't necessarily know whether he left or didn't leave. >> we have -- i know also the patriot act coming up here at the end of may will expire and our constituents as mr. fatah said interested in protecting all americans and remembering benjamin franklin needing safety will probably wind up with neither and probably lived

in your district in the past and that is an important lesson to remember. can you talk to us -- and the americans watching today talk about the patriot act -- making sure that the privacy of law-abiding americans is protecting and the thresholds you have to cross to get a court order or access to people's phone records or their conversations and that suitcase that we all have with us? >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> and how port the patriot act is to you. >> and i talk about this in public. americans should be skeptical of power. and i tell my english friends it is because of you it is the way it is. >> texans can understand that. >> the founders alive in my life and so the patriot act is an

example f. we want to get someone's business records under section 215 we have to go to a federal judge and get that authority and make a regular report to congress on how we are using section 215 and we discuss it in oversight hearings repeatedly. and so the legislative and judicial executive are working together and then my work on 215 and all of our pate rat act -- patriot act act authorities go through congress and that is burdensome but there is oversight in every piece of work we do. but the reason is matters so much, especially two that i mention, section 215 allows us in our national security investigation to go to judges and get authority to get documents or tangible things or records. if that expires and we lose that authority, we'll have a gap in our ability to respond to spies and territoriesy s terrorists that cannot fill

with grand juries or another manner of process. that is very worrisome. that is part of the patriot act we don't talk about. and the second is roving wire taps. if a drug dealer is swapping phones, as they frequently do, a judge allows us to follow the person so we don't lose him when he switches phones. i think people would want us to have the same authority in spy and terrorist cases as we do in drug cases. so we have to make a showing to the judge of probable cause and written affidavits and over seen by the courts. and the challenges that just took me two minutes to explain it and people say no it is not good what the patriot act has done. >> and mr. snowden is no hero. can you tell us out in the open

of why people should not think he is a hero. >> i don't want to say too much because i want him to understand that the greatest country in the world that he will be able to avail himself of the american right to come back to america and get a fair trial and come back to american. >> and he carried out how many laptops? >> a lot of records. and you need to look at the entire damage for our ability to track terrorists and to track spies and all of the work -- the whole corpus of work has to be looked at together. >> thank you for the time. >> thank you, mr. chairman. so your budget is inside of a bill and the bill has a number on it, but the d.o.j. portion

of -- you are seeking $8 billion. we have another part of this budget that's been growing exponentially, moving from $1 billion to $7 billion the federal prison budget. and it is a big concern because the federal prison system is gobbling up this budget that this committee has discretion over. and there is a sense that the country incarcerates people that don't need to be incarcerates. we an cars rate more -- we incarcerate more people than any other in the world. and in oklahoma and in west virginia, we put some experts on it including the head of corrections from the state of pennsylvania, which i think was a very wise choice and they are looking at what it is that we might be doing about something

that we kind of call justice reinvestment and what can we do to move away from things not working, this overemphasis on incarceration and to move in some other direction and there are some states texas has been at the forefront of looking at very aggressive activities, particularly in terms of the juvenile system and not incarcerating young people. so i am very interested in your view about who the country -- somebody said here i can't remember who people didn't something we don't like the people we fear and could do us harm we should be in jail and as the lead law enforcement official in the country what your view is about this problem and what we should do about it. >> thank you, mr. fatah. it is something i've spent a lot of my life thinking about and i'm sure i'm not expert enough

to be useful to you. but here is my take on it. i think we can be smarter about how we use the coercive aspects of the criminal justice system and we can be a whole lot better at preparing people to re-enter society. that is something we as a country have done a poor job of. and if i'm involved in an effort like that that i'm thoughtful about what incarceration rate is that we have a low level of crime. when we say 20 years from now, we got that wrong because we had reduction that was unprecedented and people smarter than that should know that. and i want to be data driven. who are the people in federal prison and why are they there and what are the risk as associated with them. and i hear people talk about the low-level nonviolent drug

offenders in federal prison, i've never put anyone there by that description. and i can't find a whole lot of prosecutors saying i prosecute a low-level drug offender and there may be folks like that but i want to make sure the statistics are there. but i want to be effective. >> and this is almost an equal part to your budget that you are requesting now. and the number of inmates actually has -- as the crime rate nationwide, the crime rate is going down but a lot of the action is at the state level, not necessarily where we are. but let me move on to a different subject. but the committee would be interested in your thoughts as we go through this process and for the recommendations from the collison group come back. so sandy hook took place a while ago but it was a tragedy.

and every year not just the loss of police officers, there are thousands and thousands of americans being shot and killed. and the access to firearms which the supreme court has said people have the constitutional right to and that is the law of our land. as a law enforcement official how do you -- and todd jones is leaving at the head of one of your sister agencies what is your thought about what we should be doing or thinking about as a nation vis-a-vis the question of firearms? >> another big hard question. probably all aspects of that are beyond my expertise and my authority except for one piece. i've spent a lot of my life as a prosecutor trying to make sure that criminals were deathly afraid of getting caught with a

gun. and if a criminal is caught obviously committing a crime with a gun or just possessing it, there are severe, severe consequences. i've long believed that most homicides are happenstance homicides. what would be a fistfight or a rock fight have become a shooting because the felon or the drug dealer has it there and if we can make the criminal -- criminals are have good at that, if they are fearful of having that as an article of clothing we'll have more stabbings or fightings. so we want them to be afraid -- you should think more about your gun and your socks and shoes when you go out to deal drugs on the street corner and so i think that is effective. so i'm a big supporter not about the fbi's work but about felony in it possession, drug

dealer in possession and crimes like that because there is no excuse for a criminal to have one. none. >> and one last question mr. chairman. there is a lot of debate about prosecution of people you've locked up as terrorists in article three courts. as best as i can tell there have been no incidents or issues and these prosecutions have proceeded during the normal course and justice has been served. is that your sense of this? is there -- we have this debate and the administration wants to close guantanamo and get out of in cars rating people without a trial and just incarcerating without any due process because they think it is a problem for our country internationally. is there any concern you have about the ability of our court systems to handle these cases? >> distinguishing i know as mr. fatah would between foreign nationals captured on a

battlefield overseas versus a citizen. >> as i understand your question, it is just about the effectiveness of the criminal justice system. >> i'm not trying to get you into the heart of this. i'm just your concern from the standpoint in this country of whether our court system is capable of prosecuting -- >> that doesn't mean that ends the policy conversation. which doesn't mean the fbi shouldn't be involved in. in my experience, our courts are very good at offers people a very good trial and incapacitating them for the rest of their lives in a safe way. >> expert -- expertly done. i will be sure to recognize mr. palasso. >> thank you mr. chairman. and let me just say, i appreciate your flexibility and the judge's flexibility too. i just have a real quick question. in 2016 my area will be hosting

the super bowl. and in the past three, four years probably we've been tracking the super bowl activities in terms of human trafficking. and in that light, you have the transnational organized crimes which addresses trafficking of women and children internationally, and you also have discussion around the -- the child sex tourism initiative and addressing -- instead of prostitution i say child sex slavery, because prostitution has another connotation in my mind. is there a stab we can collaborate with and speak with to anticipate the 2016? we're already working on cyber systems with our local entities in terms of light rail high-speed rail and those kind

of activeityies in airports. it would be great if we can work with some of your staff to check and double check the kinds of things we're doing and see if there is anything we can do and collaborate with? >> i'm sure we can mr. honda. this is something we have a lot of expertise and practice in. all aspects of the events around the super bowl. but we do -- we can equip you with that. we do a lot of work around super bowl events. in fact i would tell people come to the super bowl for all kinds of reasons. if you are coming to try to pick up kids or involving kids, we'll lock you up. and we'll get you the information about that. >> and we would like to look at public education to be aware and train on visual kinds of surveillance too. so we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> judge carter. >> thank you mr. chairman.

let's have a little judge-prosecutor discussion here. we -- i'm not a law professor but this is the kind of thing we're going to have to be thinking about. we're telling our industry, okay, the cyber attacks are real they are coming, home depot got attacked, sony got attacked attacked, heard about blue cross getting attacked. you have to built your fort. part of our plan for cyber security is to tell industry, build a fort, protect yourself and we're helping you sand assisting you, but be prepared. now whether this attack is a criminal act or an act of war is an interesting debate to have. i ask everybody in the cyber field, what is your opinion of when a cyber attack escalated above a criminal activity and becomes an act of war.

most people say that is a policy decision. and i understand that is a good compound. and this is an interesting discussion. but there is even a more interesting thing because what you have ultimately going back to the middle ages we're building a bunch of little forts around our industry. some of the forts are going to be very powerful. i would bet the fort around microsoft is extremely powerful. the fort around apple is extremely powerful. not only powerful in defending themselves from an attack outside, but they will have the ability to counter-attack. and when they counter-attack, they could start an international incident and we don't know what. and that is a question we have to ponder, because quite honestly, we are as a government promoting them to build that fort and that fort is nothing more than build your own castle and protect your castle. there are some that will always

be -- able to be in the defensive posture. but those with the offensive capability may go offensive. from a criminal justice system we have to decide, has that person gone too far, just like the security guard that protects -- uses his gun in the protection of the bank and so forth. some of it will be self-defense, maybe some of it is not. we have to make that determination. we may have to make that determination in the cyber world sometime in the future if a private entity protecting its own property decides to counter attack in a cyber attack, which we certainly have the ability to do at least we presume we do as a government, then you have to presume some of these big, monster tech industries have the ability to counter attack. how is that going to affect us in the criminal -- the world of criminal justice or have you

ever thought about that? >> i've thought about it. from private sector, where i was before coming back to this great job and on the government side. the answer is, we as a country can't allow it. it is against the law. and in my view, it should remain against the law. it is great to build a fort, but if you start throwing rocks off the parapet or throwing things down, it can drag us into a place we don't want to be so it is unlawful for a private entity to hack back and it makes sense to me. but i understand there is a crying need for our government to fill that space and that is a harder policy question. but we can't have each of the castles throwing stuff out into the square. that public space is a place where the government ought to be operating. >> but i would agree. if you look at the dark ages,

that is exactly what happened. the -- france copt control the individual castles, england couldn't control the individual castles because all kinds of social turmoil in the middle ages and arguably we could be going to the cyber middle ages of everybody defending their own because the government is pretty well saying right now we're taking care of the government, and in some instances we're taking care of our body of politics of commerce. but the individual person with the ownership has got to protect their own. and i think that on the horizon we've got real issues because the government has got to come in and say how far can this person go to protect their own? if they develop an ability, for instance because i'm making this up because i don't know anything about cyber, the minute you hack into me at fry's every commuter

you attach to all over the world, somebody comes up with that that will be a very large tool that somebody can -- it is a question that government has to start thinking about because this is a big deal. and at some point that is an act of war. and then the government has to go and defend the individual's property. if they bomb microsoft or bomb the exxon-mobil building in dallas, if they fly over with an airplane and drop a bomb we would call it an act of war. the question is will we get it as an act of war by basically destroying that business. that is a tough question. >> yes, it is. >> and we in that criminal justice system have to think about it and our professors back in law school have to think about it and come up with a solution. >> well as criminal justice analog in the old west, if the marshall doesn't provide safety

for those in the towns, they'll defend themselves and protect their family from the bad guys so the public has -- the government has to protect them. >> that is a huge task. thank you. >> and a good analogy and if the government can't provide that protection and the marshal can't be there for the little homestead outside of town out in the indian country, how -- we've got -- all of us a right of self-defense, to what extent does a business or individual have a right to self-defense in the cyber world? there is no answer, i guess. >> good question. >> i think we are literally creating those castles today. no doubt about that. >> [ inaudible ]. >> and to follow up on the analogy, the conversation about the apple 6, in the case of a

safe, where you ordered -- you have a court order to go in and get the contents of a safe you have probable cause to believe there is evidence of a crime, if the safe is uncrackable and either the owner cannot or will not open it as a general rule does the company that built the safe has the ability to open the safe? is there any requirement with a physical safe that they would be -- the company that built the safe have the ability to open it? is there any legal requirement? how does that work judge? >> i don't know about that requirement. with a court order we can get something from the manufacturer. or blow the door off. >> i have to go. i want to thank you. we're very proud of the fbi and all of the work you do. >> that is true. thank you. but you can either blow the safe or the manufacturer always had the ability to open it.

>> yeah. >> in some way shape or form. >> i've never seen a circumstance to use lawful process to compel a manufacturer to give us assistance. i don't know. >> drill it or blow it. >> yeah. >> because that is another problem -- again, protecting people's individual privacy and recognizing, if you have evidence of a crime locked up in that suitcase, how in the world do you get at it. >> let me ask about it and i'll follow up with other questions for the record the importance of information sharing with the inspector general. it is a question ongoing with every agency under our agency. the generals have a vital role of notifying us when they do audits and if the -- and the inspector general is denied access to information they have to notify the committee and we've gotten several notices from the inspector general and we've mentioned this before

about the fbi's failure to comply with the access to information requirement and i know the fbi has a disagreement to what the law requires and mr. fatah and i have both writing a letter to ask resolve a matter. >> don't think involving whistleblowers to resolve this matter as quickly as possible. what stepz are you taking to make sure the inspector general takes to get the information in a timely manner and what if any conflict of interest is there for the agency being inspected by the inspector general to decide what information the inspector general needs, particularly since the inspector general has, as you did as the prosecutor, the ability to review things in a confidential manner and in camera, as you would, since the inspector general has investigative

authority and can maintain the confidentality -- confidentiality, and work with them behind closed doors to get what they need. what are you doing to help them get what they need in this case? >> it is an important question. i love my i.g. and i love them as a rule of law. i'm in a situation where the fbi, the office of general counsel has given us legal advice over what the wire tap act and the grand jury secrecy act gives us with regard to what information to give to the inspector general. we need to solve that problem which should be easy. i think the new deputy attorney general is working toward solving this and i think somebody at the deputy of justice should say, it is okay. you don't have to go to a judge to turn over wire tap or information to the i.g. and

problem solved but i have no interest in obstructing the i.g. and i don't want to willie nilly turn over stuff that should be protected. and i want to to say why did you turn this over. so i need clarity there. and want too speed up our business processes so we can do whatever we need to more quickly. >> and to get it done in a timely fashion, what are you doing to make sure the inspector general is getting the information so they can get their job done in a timely process. >> and that is so people can search for information and i want go into the boring details but i have a shop that are geniuses at processes and said figure out how to do this faster. like building car. figure out how to do this much more fast.

and i think i can solve the business process and then get the leadership to solve the legal question and then it will -- then it won't all be love with the i.g. but in a much better place. >> shanda. >> on behalf of the sub-committee and on behalf of the people of texas i want to express our gratitude want to thank you for keeping us safe and protecting our privacy and our constitutional rights as law-abiding americans. we are your best back-up. there is no better back-up than an american using their own common judgment and good hearts. and you mention criminals with judges. i doubt you had a problem with a concealed carry holder who is licensed with a back ground check. i'm not aware with any problems with texans that are licensed. could you comment on that as a law enforcement officer. >> i haven't had any problems

with that. >> with a concealed law enforcement -- concealed carry holder? >> i haven't had any problems with that. >> especially in texas. that is the end -- the conclusion of this meeting. thank you very much.

here are some of our featured programs for this weekend on the c-span networks. on book tv saturday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, author peter wallace said that government housing policies caused the 2008 financial crisis and it could happen again. and sunday afternoon at 5:00. director of the earth institute at columbia university receivery sacks on a development plan to counter global issues like poverty, political corruption and environmental decay. and on saturday morning at 10:30

eefltern on c-span3, a discussion on the last major speeches of abraham lincoln and martin luther king jr. and then the 1965 meet the press interview with martin luther king jr. find our complete television schedule at c-span.org and let us know what you think about the programs you are watching call us at 202-626-34 hundred and e-mail us at comments at c-span.org or join the c-span conversation and like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. customs and border protection commissioner gill kerlikowske discussed the commission on tuesday in washington, d.c. he touched on topics such as modernization and protecting the global supply chain and border protection on the northern and southern borders. this is just under an hour.

>> okay. well good morning, everybody. welcome. i'm anbow shane the senior vice president for national security and emergency preparedness here at the u.s. chamber. we're so glad you could join us here today. and the u.s. chamber is pleased to welcome back our friend and partner commissioner gill kerlikowske for his first state of the agency address focused on trade. as the commissioner begins his second year at cvp we thought this was a perfect time to address the trade community and give them an overview of what is coming up. the chamber supports cvp, protecting national security and promoting economic prosperity. we see ourselves as a partner in

their mission. businesses are linked together through a global web of interconnected, predictable and efficient supply chains. we rely on the supply chains to access consumers and compete in the global market place. improvements that address cross-border frictions smooth the flow of trade and enhance the competitiveness of all of our companies. we at the chamber will continue to enhance priorities that improve the global supply chains. that add volk as will include policy reform and effective legislation on the hill and promoting commitments from our trade partners to enhance custom modernization. as the hill moves forward with trade promotion authority we must not forget about the bipartisan trade facilitation and trade enforcement act and customs modernization. this legislation takes aggressive action to address check points at borders, lower the transaction cost of trade

and provide needed researches for trade facilitation customs modernization and enforcement of our intellectual property rights. as we enter the second year, the chamler will continue to engage dhs to ensure the delivery of a single window that meets the white house's 2016 deadline and finally as the trade facilitation agreement enhances we continue for a public-private partnership for meaningful implementation. we look forward to working with cvp to stream line the passage of goods by cutting red tape and bureaucracy at our borders. and we know we have a good partnership with gill kerlikowske and we look at modernizing the border processes for 21st century trade. it is truly my pleasure to

introduce gill kerlikowske. he was nominated by president obama and sworn in on march 17th, 2014 and taking the hill of the agency with a budget of $12.4 billion. he leads the largest federal law enforcement agency and second largest retch new-collecting source in the federal government. the commissioner brings law enforcement and drug enforcement. and he served as director of the white house office of national drug policy, chief of police in seattle, washington police commissioner in buffalo, new york and spent with the st. petersburg police department. he has received rewards for his innovation and community service. gill thank you for your lifetime of service to our great country. please give a warm welcome to

commissioner kerlikowske: [ applause ] >> well good morning, everybody. thanks so much for being here and ann, thank you very much for the warm welcome. it is a pleasure to come to the chamber. it is always a great honor. the chamber and all of its staff has been great partners with cvp and on the drug-free workplace when i served as the president's drug policy adviser. and i thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. and many of us since i've had this job and during my confirmation process had the opportunity to get to know you and understand a lot of the issues and talk about them quite a bit. and i would also like to thank the people tending via the web -- the webbinar. so i'm sure there are people in florida with nice tans busy watching this also.

the chamber is absolutely vital to our economic health and as champions of american business, you help -- the chamber helps our industries compete and lead on the global playing field. and i believe that another player in this is the united states customs and border protection. we play a critical role in the effort and the success of our mission in ensuring border security while facilitating lawful trade and travel is integral to america's global competitiveness. on a typical day and many of you know these statistics but i wouldn't be a good fed if i didn't repet them to you. the typical day cvp processes more than a million people and screens more than 170 truck, rail and sea cargo containers at our ports of entry and processes $6.8 billion in imports. trade and travel facilitation

are balanced with the strong commitment to a seamless border security and it makes our decision difficult and it also means we have to have good collaboration and good communication and good partners and that certainly includes every one of you that are here today. well last may, when i had a chance to speak here at the chamber, i barely had two months in office. and so some people were wondering, how does someone with a law enforcement -- a strong law enforcement background for many, many years, how are you going to adapt to this trade and this travel issue? how are you going to make sure you are paying attention to the economic security along with the border security? and how are you going to navigate the incredible complexities of trade? after all, issues like supply chain, security and cargo preinspection, and mutual recognition arrangements, they all have their own language and in cvp we have the most

acronyms. think we're competing with the department of defense foye the -- for the most acronyms. and for me it was a little bit more opaque than the lingo of narcotics and smuggles an the crime that cvp deals with. and i've seen firsthand and traveled all over the united states and frankly all over the world, i've seen firsthand how integral our mission is to the nation's economic health and vitality and the safety and security of the global supply chain. in 2014, we cleared $2.5 trillion in imports. $1.6 trillion in exports. we processed 26 million cargo containers. and that was an increase of 4% over 2013. and as everyone in this room and everyone watching clearly knows those increases not only in trade but those increases in

travel are something that we're certainly seeing in this fiscal year also. well seeing that firsthand value at the ports provided a greater understanding of the complexity of the trade process and how they can present significant changes for you for those of you in global business. we enforce laws for 50 federal agencies, we have equityiesequities, all have equities in the trade 'he is. hundreds of different types of forms, many more acronyms required to import and export goods. the system is and can be time-consuming and costly. and that is not only for government, but for all of you as well. and that is why cvp has really focused on stream lining and modernizing our process. we're really indebted to people that have worked and been long-time colleagues such as al jean you at cvp and for the work they did and then to see them

transform or go over to work in the private sector is only of great benefit to both parties. cvp has to meet this international trade that is predicted -- this growth in trade predicted in the next few years. i want to share the progress made and talk about the things we've charted for the future. so first of all, it was filling a number of key positions. over the course of -- since secretary johnson has been in office, not quite two years, it was very clear to him that there were far too many acting positions in the department of homeland security. and he immediate a real effort and has been incredibly successful in getting people confirmed through the united states senate but that has been also true for cvp. prior to my confirmation we had a number of acting positions. including acting positions within -- as commissioner of customs and border protectionmentprotection.

and those people did an outstanding job. i stand on their shoulders whether it is a tom or alan or aguilar. and they did a great job. and as all of us in this room or in the beltway it is great to have the seal of the united states senate. so being the first confirmed commissioner in the obama administration, i think is helpful. but it also gave me the opportunity to remove a number of acting titles away from people. so many of you had a chance to participate and congratulation kevin macilline as no longer the acting commissioner but the deputy commissioner. and i was happy to see brenda for the commissioner of trade and deborah as the commissioner and the field operations and the strong partner with john wagner

as the deputy. and rich denuchi with many years of experience in this field as the executive director of cargo and conveyance security. all of these individuals are true experts and innovators in the trade mission and they are a tremendous asset not only to cvp and dhs they have a trend endous asset to the nation's economy. maria bois who heads office of trade relations and it is our trade ombudsman and the staff i put in place in my office right down the hall to directly connect with me when it comes to issues of concern to you. and they work with me on a daily basis to make sure that i understand and recognize and live up to the promises that i've made regarding these priorities. i'm pleased to announce here today that as we've made these promotions, we also, of course create vacancyies with that and there is no single area of more

important than making sure we deliver it on time and operates well and that is in the ace program. steve hillson is the cvp lead for the single window initiative and i hope we can give steve a round of applause for taking this on. [ applause ] >> steve is going to coordinate all of the activities with ncvp in the role with the single window and the primary point of contact for cvp participation in all of our u.s. government activities relating to the window and that includes the board executive counsel and the international trade data board and community stakeholders. we should be paying you more money. obviously. i could go on but there is a lot. well speaking of the single window as part of the cvp trade transformation strategy, we've accelerated the deployment of our import-export processing

system. the automated commercial environment, ace and you recognize what a huge shift this is. moving from the paper-based and fax and original signatures and a number of questions that perhaps in this day and age aren't as necessary to be asked. but because we had always done it that way we always continued to do it that way. we've moved to a faster modernized and more cost-effective electronics ss submissions. and as we close in on key milestones and i can never give a speech without those key milestones on november 1st of this year and october 16th all keen dates you are aware of cvp continues to develop, test and deploy the capabilities all designed to transform cargo processing. many of you know ace is the core of the executive order that was signed by president obama in 2013 so that december 2016 deadline for completion of the

government-wide automated window would extreme line government. cvp are spearheading this and ace is the single window to allow relevant agencies to respond to cargo movement and reduce costs and speed the cargo process and working closely with all of our federal partners including the epa, the food safety and inspection service, many others to ensure that ace is equipped to meet their requirements because we have to be a good steward and good partner with them. and that single window is completed to serve your needs and to simplify international business. well an area that i'm really excited about is the e-bond area. our cfo jay williamson is here and the people that were involved in the e-bond transformation is exciting. so a-bond and ace, one of the most important, e-bond is a tremendous benefit to cvp and to the filers customs brokers,

self-filing importers, et cetera. when filers electronically transmit a bond to cvp, they got a positive response within 10-15 seconds. before it was four to five days. so you can begin to understand the magnitude of this change and its effect on the supply chain. industry has recognized this benefit and in the first month of e-bonds more than 11,000 bounds were created in ace. today more than 90% of the cvp bond market is being submitted electronically. that is really exciting news. it is good for us and it is good for business. another key development are the centers of excellent and expertise. and the centers are transforming the way we operate by consolidating the industry's processing under the authority of one center. so instead of scattering throughout hundreds of ports of entry and perhaps the importers getting different answers at different ports of entry, these

centers improve our identity to identify high-risk cargo and importations and increase predictability for the industry and if i've heard one set of watchwords over and over from you all for quite sometime, it is about the importance of consistency and predictability. you are making your business decisions, your budgets your hiring and on and on and on and you want to make sure we're going to be in the same position and talking with the same set of talking points and moving in the same direction so that as you make these investments we are living up to our potential too. and they reduce transaction talks for trade and cvp. we have three of cvp's ten centers as of january 28th they are managing all post-release activities in their specific areas. electronics in los angeles, pharmacy in new york petroleum and natural gas and minerals in houston. and we look forward to have the other seven virtual centers

being able to live up to that full functionality as well. trusted trader. we're all familiar with trusted trader programs and they've been a key focus of ours for some time and we're unifying against terrorism and the self-assessment. and i've heard from people in this room and people watching that it is important for us to make sure that if someone goes and an organization goes to the extra effort and the time to be thoroughly vetted to become a member of ct pat they are experiencing those benefits. we needed to, and are working hard to do a better job of making sure the benefits are one, transparent, and easily accessible and understood by the people that have gone to that extra trouble. so whether it is being first in line, whether it is not having cargo held up as long, because you've gone through those things to make sure we understand and

the obligations that we have, because you've gone to that extra effort and we appreciate that. and the trusted trader program also aligns the authorized economic operator programs. those world-wide programs that are being implemented by other countries. and frankly they're being implemented by other countries with our help and our assistance. our over 800 people overseas an the work we're doing overseas is not just about protecting the united states, it is also about making sure that by pushing those borders out, giving people the information and the help and letting them experience one, the successes that we've had in implementing these programs but also making sure that they understand in a very open and transparent way we can tell them about things we've tried and worked out and haven't been quite as successful. it saves them time and saves mistakes and frankly it just adds to that trusted relationship when you are not only willing to say these are all of the great things that

we've done at cvp and here is what ear able to do -- we're able to do to be helpful but here are some of the things or the mistakes that we've made and haven't worked out well and we can save them time and effort. that is what makes a trusted partner when it comes to these issues. so we are bringing them together along with us. and then in designing the program we're coordinating with the trade community and other government agencies to build a program of security and compliance requirements that is really a value add for them and for us. well, cargo security, there are people here that are ibt -- intimately int maptly familiar with cargo and shows how collaboration with the private sector and other law enforcement agencies enhances our enforce. in targeting capabilities and k-cast was launched in the threat of a true terrorist threat. the explosives hidden in printer

cartridges from yemen destined for the united states in 2010, as the national targeting center cvp and the transportation security tsa jointly target and identify high risk before it is loaded on a u.s.-bound aircraft and industry has realized the value of the program and providing security and integrity of the supply chain and prevents business disruption. last year industry participation in a-cast grew by 15% and there are now 15 participant -- 51 participants. and the trusted trader a cast under score our commitment for stakeholders and identify how we do business. coaci'm most proud of for collaboration of industry and the commercial operations

advisory committee shows broad representatives bringing an incredible depth of expertise in customs broad processes and other fields that can inform and affect how we cooperate and it was thuroy le vetted and subjected to cvp and the inner agency and also within the broader trade community. co ac is key to that process and invaluable to cvp and to me. i want to be able to announce the selection of the new members of

reappointed members and david barry of swift transportation. scott boyer of kraft foods and brandon freed of air forward, association. suzanna hager of abbott laboratories, and vincent aicap ella, and julianne parks and kevin parnell of microsoft. what a strong and diverse team, internationally type of business. everything that you want when you're thinking through these really complex issues and the amount of time and effort that they spend and the fact that they have such great support from their organizations and

their companies is really unbelievable, incredibly helpful to us and i look forward to continuing to work with them and the inner agency collaboration is important as many of you know too. we work closely with treasury and tim scud could not be a better partner with us in these areas and we work closely with the border interagency executive council, something that deputy secretary mallorca takes seriously and is involved in on a regular basis. and it is a true commitment by the inner agency at the highest level to make sure that people are involved in all of these things, brings together the senior leaders to examine and improve the import and export processes throughout the united states government and we have key leadership roles in the group as it examines and makes decisions about risks, how we use information to move cargo, collect revenue and force health and safety laws. all of these discussions are

informed by the advice from industry to improve the supply chain process and to reduce barriers for trade and the type of collaboration is critical. for example, during the five years that i served as president obama's drug policy adviser, i had a good, strong, wonderful working relationship with the fda. that was over the prescription drug and opioid abuse issues that people are familiar about from quite a bit of attention and publicity that it has gotten. but we had to have that working relationship with the fda and working with dr. hamburg as the fda commissioner, i continued that on when i got the job here at cbp and thanks to that relationship we have a cbp-fda working group that is working together with you all in a way to reduce some of the problems of delayed shipment and transfer of those programs, and i think, dr. hamburg, after six years at the helm of the fda for her

strong leadership as she retires. and in our phone call and discussion the other day, she's made it clear to the staff and the key leadership within fda that these relationships and this partnership should continue. i'm also working very closely with elliott kaye, the chairman of the consumer product safety commission. we've met, we've talked and discussed on how we can be more helpful to cpsc and how can we help ease some of the burden. we have a lot of people and as we like to say, we have a lot of boots on the ground when it comes to our ports of entry. we can be a huge benefit and value add to these other inner agencies. the more they trust us, the more work we can do with them and the more knowledge and understanding that we have about what they do, the better we can be in helping them achieve their legislative priorities and goals and making sure that they live up to their obligations and of course, the more helpful we can be to all of you.

during that first year i met with many of the chamber members. it was made abundantly clear that cbp has to continue to be a leader internationally on global supply chain, security standards and enforcement. in my meetings with the world customs organization in a variety of levels it's been very clear. in my travels around the world it has been made very clear to me by our partners throughout the -- throughout the global environment how hopeful and helpful we can be to them and i think that's tremendously beneficial. you're seeing that move where in many places customs is by far, a single focus on revenue collection and where, by far now customs is trying to meet that dual obligation. the same obligation that we have and that i think we have dealt with successfully although we can certainly and will do more.

but i think that those are the kind of lessons learned that we're going to bring forward. the world watches cbp closely and we're eager to share our experiences with our foreign counterparts so that we can better align policies. to that end with the world customs organization and their 178-member nations, we play a large role. they have considerable interest in our initiatives and our policies and i have sought every opportunity to engage them and to make sure that they know that we are more than willing to be as helpful and to provide as much assistance as possible. but we need a stronger voice, frankly, from the united states. we have that expertise. we have that credibility. i couldn't have been more pleased to nominate anna hinojosa, to be the u.s. delegate to wco's director of compliance and facilitation. anna brings 28 years of

experience to cbp. she worked on the southwest border, she was a port director. she can bring all of that to that international body. we have not had someone like that in one of those directed commissioner positions since commissioner bonner was in office as the commissioner of customs. so it is going to be important and i am working very hard to make sure people recognize what a value she will be to wco and to all of the wco members. the security integrity of the global supply chain depends on those international partnerships. mutual recognition arrangements are a critical tool in aligning standards to the international community. these arrangements provide a platform to exchange trusted trader information and to harmonize reciprocal supply chain programs. during the first year as commissioner got to sign four mras, mexico -- three mras,

sorry. mexico, israel and singapore. the secretary just signed the agreement and i'll talk about it in a minute with canada. but bringing together these arrangements is important. we only have ten of these, by the way, since 2003. you can see we've really tried to speed up that process of getting these in place. a key focus has been strengthening our relationship and partnership with mexico and the 2,000 miles of shared border in the 50 ports of entry we have with them. ongoing engagement, building upon the areas identified in the 21st century border initiative, improving and expanding border infrastructure. if you've been to san ysidro, you can see instead of the long lines of people waiting to get into the united states, or cargo or produce waiting to get into the united states, they have reduced wait times to a much smaller amount. that's because the united states government taxpayers have made

an investment in improving that critical infrastructure. we team up with a better facility and we team up with more people and better technology, we can really speed things through. that's what is going on and is highly visible in san ysidro and nogales also. these are the kind of things, including a new agreement for the terminal facility and tijuana airport. i knew after going back -- i've been back about four times to san diego. the first times the complaints about the wait times were there. this time the complaints were from the vendors selling water saying people are moving through 9 the line too quick. so there's always a complaint. as i mentioned our two countries signed a mutual recognition arrangement in october. this was historic. our program supply chain security programs each have this mutually recognizable

arrangement so that we can have better trust. as we look at designing ports of entry in the future, particularly with mexico and canada, how can this be done in a more efficient way? the northern border in the united states and canada just signed with the secretary and minister blaney an historic new pre-clearance agreement with the 2011 beyond the borders action plan. that controls all modes of transportation between u.s. and canada. land, rail, marine and air. immigration, custom agriculture inspections required for entry into either country will be able to be handled on foreign soil on the opposite side of the border. it will reduce congestion, delays and increase efficiency and predictability in cross border travel, tourism and transportation. the next step required to implement the new agreement. this is for the united states and canada to now enact legislation. while that legislation was

introduced during the last congress, and i am hopeful that it will be introduced and you will support its passage in this congress. let me just mention before i close a little bit about the future. the change that's going to occur. change is a lot like heaven. kind of everyone wants to get there but no one wants to die. so we're working hard. you know who said that? i got that statement from carly fiorina. so pretty interesting statement. well, what's clear to me in preparing for the future is that we need to reflect the realities of your business and the world that you exist in. the constant evolution of the global supply chain. i recognize that while we have some major efforts already under way, there are some areas that need additional focus and they need more work and they need more work from us. trade enforcement. over and over again, i've never heard anyone say that, well, you shouldn't be enforci