separate from and unable to subsidize the private sector business. otherwise, we undermine the innovation and effectiveness of what is a very effective private sector in delivery. >> david? >> you can tell robert and i have a slight different view of the road ahead. i'm pleased that when you said friend you didn't put that in air quotes. accenture dade very valuable useful study of world posts. and they looked at a subset of the world post that first began to emerge from the devastating blow of social networking and the economic downturn and so forth that had so devastated postal services. they said all of the winners had three aspects.

they were lean, i would certainly give the u.s. postal service pretty good grades for that. they have undertaken an enormous effort to become smaller and more lean. smart, efficient, the postal service is embarking down that road. the third is they are entrepreneurial and they are diversified, which the u.s. postal service is not. they are saying those are the three key essential ingredients to survive in today's world as a postal service. i think one of the keys to staying out of trouble, if we do begin to enter the area of diversification, is to enable, not to compete, with commerce. we certainly have many ways to do that. as far as who would do this, i agree and understand that we

have a traditional workforce that has been narrowly focused on mail and parcels in the past, but the postal service has the longest tradition of all the federal departments and probably within the world of creating effective partnerships with the private sector. first of all, we're the long poll in the tent in the postal industry. trillion-dollar industry. we have had a long tradition of discounts to achieve the lowest combine. ed cost for delivery of services. competition with the other carriers has been very effective where we use their air transport

and they use our last mile delivery. it's been a long rich history of combining with the private sector to expand into areas where the expertise lies. but there's value, as i said, in a common infrastructure, particularly in industries that are being severely disrupted. the supply chain and the banking industry are two examples. we need to be there. we can't leave with everybody else. there won't be those essential services that are left behind and abandoned and cannot go digital. there needs to be some infrastructure left for the american people and for commerce. >> i'm old enough to remember the days of watergate. if you remember the key saying was follow the money. if you want to know how a postal system that is owned and operated by the a government under a monopoly is going to function, you have to ask yourself to what are the incentives? if you follow the incentives, you'll understand how it will behave. if you look at the private sector, the incentives are to maximize your gains and minimize your costs.

those incentives do not exist in a bureaucracy. to translate those into human terms, we might say the incentives are to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. if you just look at the way the postal system today functions, vis-a-vis congress it is not trying to maximize pleasure, but it's doing everything it can to minimize its pain. so consequently, how it will function is going to determine result is and it is what you would expect to see of an enterprise that truly can exist within a competitive environment. >> i think it's time. thank you. i think this is a complicated issue. i think it's time to open it up to the audience.

>> the thing i learned about running an organization, even though it's a non for profit, we need a revenue. and the limits on revenue seems to be the heart of the problem. we talk about businesses -- i don't know any business that restricts its price increases to how they -- to some other criteria other than what the market would bear. if the market needs lower prices, they lower the prices. if they need higher prices, they raise the price. i think one of the big problems with the new regulatory regime is congress has limited them to external inflation as the limit on how much you can raise total revenue. at the same time, it has

mandated above inflation costs to the system. until you fix that, there's absolutely no way -- you can get 50 new banks or products, you're still not going to be allowed to raise the revenue and the system is going to fail. can you comment on that? >> you hit on a key point, referencing a system that by law mandates that it's market dominant products, which is where you have the captive customers needs to be regulated under a cpi system. the law did say after ten years, the commission needs to look at the full ten years of experience and assess improvements, changes, how that might operate. the idea was on the competitive side, the competitive marketplace would be that limit. if you go back to 2006 when this law was being finalized after 12 years of effort and a lot of if was focused on the prices, the products, the flexibility for

the postal service, there was an issue that got bubbled up toward the back end, which was this idea of pre-funding future retiree health benefits. >> [inaudible]. >> yeah. a huge liability that future rate payers were going to get hit with. at the time the decision was made, look, this makes sense for the postal service to start pre-funding that. what came out of the legislation and that was signed into law actually locked into place for ten years specified payments of upwards of $5 billion or more per year for ten years. after the ten years, it was re-amortized. back in 2006 if we all go back to then and certainly from the postal service perspective, they were at their peaks of revenue, volume and the postal service, at that time, their general focus was, look, this is going to be tough for ten years, but we can make the payments. none of us would have predicted that the next year our nation

went into a great recession that rivalled the depths of the great depression and mail volume and revenue, and i think you hit upon the key point, while good intention because it was locked into statute to undo it, create scoring issues and it became a recipe for insolvency. >> and there's equally significant issues in revenues not just in the inflation cap, but from the deeply discounted rates that nonletter mail receives. that periodicals, it's mainly advertising. it's all the mailers you get. and that is an increasing share of the volume. and the congress has mandated deeply discounted rates and they have done this in a way the

congress operates. it doesn't have to be described. but if you need it, we have one of america's premier political scientists here to explain it. and that's not a subsidy, that's a cost. and it's under universal service obligation. if we are going to have a hybrid form of a system, which is that provides delivery that competes with private companies, then we also have to introduce more competition into the other side of the market. and the first way to do that is to get rid of those two things. get rid of all of them and let other people -- let other companies compete for that business at a market rate. >> i think gene may want to say something about this.

>> not specifically about that. but let's talking about the dilemma you pose. the dilemma you posed was how you make things work when you limit your income it can make on the basis of an external factor versus what congress does in order to tell it what it has to do. you've got at play here, you'll never be able to satisfy successfully resolve the postal service dilemma, you have to play here a different ideological perspective. if you were to ask rand paul what he would expect the postal service to like and contrast with what bernie sanders would say, it would be like night and day. the thing is the congress has never said if this is what we want to have, there needs to be a way by which it gets funded. now we can all talk about raising everybody's rates, but here's the important thing to

keep in mind. you may compel people, but today with electronic communication, you don't have to mail. so if you end up doing things that makes it apparent to a business that the prices you're charging no longer facilitate the ability to use, they will take their business elsewhere. but you still have to mandate. how do you fund the mandate in the absence of sufficient revenue if the revenue has an opportunity now to leave? >> i guess what i would like to point out is that what robert said is very important. the moment of passage is important to remember. enormous, robust expanding business that was approaching a cliff, where i think legislators felt that mail was expanding, but there would be a time in which it would totally evaporate.

there would be no postal service in the future. all of which turned out to be quite wrong. but the cpi cap was intended as a surrogate for market forces because robert pointed out those well. absent those, federal bureaucracies, any bureaucracy absent market forces, so it was hoped that if there was enough pressure applied that that would be policed and take care of itself. and it was an expanding market. cpi caps anywhere tend to work in an expanding market. they don't work well where the market is stable and they are a disaster where the market is declining, which is exactly what occurred. the other great pressure was prefunding. pay $5.5 billion a year. the postal service in its history had never made $5 billion. we make or lose $1 billion. we never made a single payment. we borrowed to make every single payment.

we borrowed against a bill that we didn't have that would some day arrive. that was an odd one. it was in the hands of opm. opm had a couple things going on there. one, they were desperate for money to manage what had been a fairly poorly managed pension fund for all of the government. second, there were competence problems. they had just tried to collect our pension amount. to pre fund. earlier than that. they missed a $171 billion debt by $71 billion. that's pretty bad. they missed the math problem by more than a third. through congressional determination -- and a lot can be said for it -- we have now

put aside $330 billion. we are the most attractive takeover target in the corporate world today. but we have paid dearly for that. >> i think there's a question back there, sir. >> yes, good morning, thanks for the panel. any name is john bird with the business coalition for fair competition. and we're very interested in knowing what kind of remedies would be offered to take a look at the evolving market conditions, the current financial challenges. financial challenges. and then the second part to the question would be this management that's ongoing, where is that mispronounced to the extent that you can kind of weave each of the panelists' remarks about that, i would appreciate it. >> anybody want to pick this up? >> in terms of mismanagement, i'll leave that to somebody

else. but to your earlier point, rob may have put his finger on it. the time of having a hybrid system, one that is supposed to act like a business and one that is not supposed to act like a business may be well past us. it may be time to start saying, if there are certain core service which we know the nation needs and we want to restrict who can provide them, they ought to be organized separately and distinctly from those services that we would like this other element of the business sberps to undertake to be able to operate competitively within the marketplace. that would mean you'd have to restructure competitive services under a corporate structure that would require it to have the same sorts of sets of books and constraints that would apply to anybody in the private sector was the whole issue is immediately ruled out. >> anybody else have a comment? >> i want to say in the defense

of the postal service here that i don't think it's really an issue of mismanagement. it's an issue of responding. that the problem with any anybody -- and this applies to market dominant private companies as well as this unusual hybrid is that the need to figure out how to be more efficient and in particular how to innovate, what kind of investments should you be making and what kind of investment should you be pulling back on? those incentives are absent. and consequently, they become less efficient, less innovative and their cost relative to the

product decline. and we see, you know, the bls has qualified that. that's what productivity captures. and that's not because they have bad managers. i don't think they have any worse -- the quality of the managers there is any worse than the average for the private sector. i think that the way they are forced to operate is different. and it has predictable economic consequences. >> i think if you think about what the postal infrastructure is about, it's instructive to your question. they provide universal service to all of america, even places that are not profitable. they do so at the lowest possible costs so that we energize commerce, we don't

destroy commerce. we are conflict free with regard to picking winners and losers. now hold that thought. in europe they attempted all this. something very curious happened. there were no serious takers. they said would anybody else like to do these three things? no serious takers. so is there some value in having someone just focused on energizing commerce with no conflict of interest and who is charging as little as they possibly can to survive? i think so. i think that's the very definition of a national infrastructure. >> it did work in sweden. sweden is the case. sweden has the most competitive open system, and it's worked

quite well in sweden. but i would not claim that sweden -- that the problems facing a small homogeneous society and one facing ours are the same. it would be different and more complicated, but they went to full privatization. >> the last question to the lady up here. >> my name is elaine middleman. i'm an attorney. i got involved in postal issues when the post office by my house was closed, even though it was very profitable, by tyson's corner. so i'm in favor of post offices. so i appreciate your point of view. i don't understand because it's like you want to start from scratch and pretend none of this exists, which maybe in the perfect world would be great, but that's not where we're at. one thing that troubled me in

this pre funding the reporters always talk about the post office is always bleeding billions of dollars. they don't understand the concept of operating revenue, operating income. this $5 billion requirement makes it look like that it's a dysfunctional business, when in fact as you pointed out, the last mile delivery is vital to the economy. many people rely on the post office. i look at everybody and they are standing there. they have a reason to be there. they have a paper someone wants to help. it's an important part of our infrastructure. >> robert, do you want to take that? >> i think a key point what everyone thinks of the pre- funding requirement we have to deal with the fact that it's the law of the land. and hence because of that, they are not meeting certain obligations that are required by law to meet and more importantly has real world application. i went through and saw the good news, the operating income isn't

good news, but the reality is with those requirements and the law as it is, the liquidity is just not available there. then you get into scoring issues. so that's a challenge for congress to sort through. at the end of the day, it's like everything, it's going to need 218 votes in the house and a 51 or 61 in the senate and a presidential signature. but until any of that happens, it is what it is. it has the effect of the postal service where they are at and as a result of a variety of these factors, we know they have cut $16 billion in costs since the law took effect. >> i think we're going to have to close this now because we've come to the end of our time.

thank you very much for. opening up this issue to us and we hope that congress is listening. [ applause ]

on wednesday the annual congressional dinner at the marriott marquee in washington d.c. texas representative joaquin

castro and his brother julian deliver adjoint keynote address. in addition, comedian and actor assif served as the guest for the dinner. this is an 1 hour and 25 minutes. >> ladies and gentlemen, please turn your attentions to the large screens for a funny video. thank you. ♪ >> this man cries more than me and i'm a freaking wreck most days. well, get over it. just what i need. >> huge mistake by house republicans for electing the loser kevin mccarthy as majority leader. are you trying to lose? is this from the house.

>> i'm not saying you are a terrible person. but i'd rather have lunch with nancy pelosi than you. >> boehner is number one on my list of people i'd like to punch in the face. >> looked like he's been trying to stuff a flux capacitor in to his dlorian for the past couple of years. why would somebody say that. >> kevin mccarthy really needs to work on the whole -- it's okay if i say it one more time? >> nance employeesy pelosi looks like a tub of orange sherbert right now on c-span. was it too close to john boehner? >> looks like an angry oompa loompa. i assume he bribes his constituents with the chocolate and gob stoppers, whatever the hell that means.

>> nancy find a new job as bedpan cleaner or store clerk. you suck as a senator. i'm not a senator. >> kevin mccarthy really needs to work on that whole talking thing. what are they talking about? >> yo boehner. you face won't break and your dog won't die if you smile. ♪ >> ladies and gentlemen, tonight's dinner chair, frank thorpe the fifth. >> first of thank you for the help putting together the video. i just tweeted link to it. so if you want to watch it again and again and again feel free to share it. we all have a really big job. we have the privilege of representing the american people while we work to hold their elected representatives on capitol hill accountable.

none of that would be possible without the tireless efforts of staff in the house and senate galleries. [ applause ] yeah let's give them a round of applause. yeah. they act as the liaisons between congressional offices and the capitol hill possess corps andand the press corps and without them we would be lost. [ applause ] and on the senate side, the director ellen lawrence, aaron yanteman jason bottello and mike

moxly. thanks guys. now we turn to this. the first is the david bloom award. before there were live views and smart phones. david bloom helped to invaent first of its kind. mobile support traveling through combat zones. bloom passed away suddenly while reporting in iraq but his legacy of innovation, courage and integrity lives on through this award. here to present this year's award is one of david bloom's daughters, nicole. [ applause ] >> good evening. it is so wonderful to be back here again tonight. as many of you know i'm usually up here with my two for sisters. by twin sister christine is in

france and i will milty little sister eva went to go visit her. tonight it is just me. it's very special to be here and remember our day in this way. it's hard to believe he's been gone for 12 years. but tonight we honor the journalists currently putting themselves in the harms way. in 2015 islamic state rose to prominence and took vast swabs of land in northern iraq. iraqi forces along with kurdish troops were the ones initially tasked with pushing them back. in the early days of the battle battles, the bbc's paul wood travelled to a key town that needed to be attended to stop the advance of isis. >> east of baghdad a strategically vital battle is

being fought. these are kurdish forces. they are trying to help the iraqi army stop isis from marching on the capital. this is the jelulah. the next town is in the hands of isis. the kurds believe there are a small number of foreign jihadists backing about about 600 tribal fighters. at the kurdish base the general begs them to switch sides. he asks them to abandon isis to avoid the blood shedded that surely coming. it doesn't work. the kurds know they have to stop isis here or the jihadis will go into the nearby town of bakuba. the iraqi army is making a desperate stand there. it is the last big town before the capital. the kurds send reinforcements to

the front line. we stay behind in jelulah. the town is secure they say. >> down down down. [ gunshots ] >> they spot movement. three or four gunmen. >> guy come with me. come with me. come with me. >> down here. down here. >> bullets seem to come in from two or three directions at once. snipers they say. the peshmerga thought they had secured this place. but they have just been told 75 vehicles of isis fighters making their way here to try to cut them off. the battle is going backwards and forwards. things are very fluid here. with traf a we are with half a dozen men who are trapped on both sides.

find the most senior commander you can find -- can you hear me? >> there is growing panic. they think the jihadis are coming in through the back of the building. they are right there, he says. they are behind us. can't you see them? [speaking foreign language] a man was shot through the leg. he survived. eventually the fighting starts to die down. the cause was probably just a few gunmen left behind by isis in jelulah. it was not the mass attack the kurdish troops feared. but it is in skirmishes like this in small towns on the road to the capital that the fate of baghdad may be decided. paul wood bbc news in eastern iraq.

[ applause ] >> as this video clearly demonstrate, paul managed to keep his cool as he showed both the chaotic nature of the battle and the difficulty local forces faced in taking on the enemy. in year's award honors paulwood a previous bloom award winner who has demonstrated once again he's a remarkable journalist and one of the best war correspondents living today. we're honored to present this year's award to the bbc's paul wood. [ applause ] and -- pall isul is on assignment right now. accepting on behalf is his cameraman, who shot the video steve adrain.

[ applause ] >> wow. s are my strong point and not words. so i'll keep this short. ladies and gentlemen distinguished guests nicole thank you very much for this award. paul cannot be here tonight to accept this. but i'm delighted to accept it on behalf of all of the team that put that piece out. we didn't go looking for trouble that day. and as we crossed the street paul wood probably saved my life. you heard calling out "get down" and i hit the ground. and all the training we have for find cover, get in cover, stay

safe. and and you will notice that i'm filming across my feet in brood daylight. not a good move. then you can hear our security adviser guys come with me. he finds us a safe spot where we could stay. and then in the darkness of that basement, in between filming, second camera, javier, you see him with the film to the peshmerga soldier who was injured. and our producer nicola. and without all of them we wouldn't have got that piece and i wouldn't have been able to cut and it put it out and get it on the 10:00 use that night so it with some grat feud weitudegratitude. e when we were in that basement i think it's fair to say we didn't think weed see the next days coming and i didn't see the

days like this coming. so i just have to say on behalf of the paul, omar, javier and nicola, thank you, thank you, thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you nicole. congratulations to paul and steve. thanks to our judges. john decker. kelly dackal. and kathleen jackson. next those who make television happen. the people behind the scenes who shoot the video capture the sound and fix the technical problems that make our products worth watching. to prevent the jerry thovrpsmpson award here is cnn's dayna bash

and fox news's john wallace. [ applause ] >> i was barely a 20 something working in the cnn tape library wanting to learn skills to go out in the field and a cameraman named jerry thompson took me under his wing and showed me the tricks of the trade and showed me how far you can get in this business by actually being a good person. i'm hardly alone when it comes to the jerry thompson and the impact he had on his colleagues and his craft. he was such a talented photographer. he always went the extra mile to get just get that right shot t right angle. and he was so incredibly genus generous with his kindness. he was taken far too soon. far too young. and his wife ynez and sons jason

drew and brandon unfortunately koublt be here today. and the example he set for all of us lives on because there is this award in his name. and here tonight to present the jerry thompson awe award one of his dear friends and former partner john wallace. [ applause ] >> the first thing i would like to say is a few years ago i had a fundraiser for jerry to help with his medical costs and kids college tuition. and i have to say that dana was one of the first people to step up and say what can i do to help. so thank you. it was really meaningful. [ applause ] as some of you know jerry and i were not only partners for years at cnn. but we were the best of friends. andive loved him as a brother.

and as dana said jerry symbolized all that is good in this business. honor, professionalism, talent and respect. this award honors his legacy. with all of that in mind it is a privilege to be able to handle -- hand this year's jerry thompson memorial award to wesley skrugs from nbc news. [ applause ]

i've known wes more than 25 years. and i cannot think of anyone who epitomizes who and what jerry was than wes. wes is an incredibly talented, touches everyone he meets with his smile and his down home demeanor. it is like sheriff andy taylor from may mayberry came to d.c. stops on the beltway to fix your tire. pick up something you dropped. that is wes. so feel free. if you need a helping hand any time to call wes. 202 [ laughter ] -- 320-2153. congratulations to the wes

scruggs. >> from the most stressful tot the least stressful. you look on the crew sheet. and growif you see wes there it gives the whole crew a sense of calmness. >> whatever it takes, he'll get it done. >> there is a switchness on port 4. >> if you pose any technical problem to him. he'll sit here for a moment -- actually an eternity it seems and you see his gears turning. >> my problem solver. my mr. fix-it. >> he does all the maintenance in the field. the white house the capitol, the state department the pentagon. >> he is if real backbone on capitol hill and other places around washington where these stately old buildings need to be connected to the modern world. and he has done that. >> if he didn't design it he probably had i input on. >> mcgooifr. >> ma gooifr. >> modern day macgivre.

>> just knowing he's there getting all the transmission stuff done and knowing we're going to make live tv. you know everything is going to come out just right. >> i can't survive without my coffee. >> he has this coffee and some say the southern charm. >> usually when you call somebody like wes, when you call a technician it is usually because something is broken or not happening fast enough. so he already approaches a situation where people are already upset or nervous and anxious and le has a way to calm things down and most importantly fix them and fix them fast. >> we were in mexico and nbc was doing a first internet transmission for presidential pool. and our press kit is not working. and we had the press about to show up and no transmission. wes figured it out. >> very humble. >> indispensable.

>> above and beyond. >> loyal. >> kind. >> so he's got all of these skills but he's also this warm, engaging and really nice person. >> i wouldn't be sitting here were it not for wes. throughout my entire career he's been nurturing me training me. >> you can feel the passion he has for the industry and what he does and loves sharing the knowledge he's accumulated over the years. >> he's always been willing to teach and give his time and efforts and help you grow. >> a warm-hearted generous guy. wicked sense of humor. a lot of laughs on the road with that guy. >> i don't think anybody works as hard does as good a job as wes skrugs and looks as good doing it. >> i love working with people like wes that make it fun every day to come into work. >> i can't tell you how much i appreciate it any given time that he's there and i know he has my back. and i know he has the back of this spire news organization. that he seems to actually genuinely love what he does and

come to work ready to do anything for any of us. [ applause ] >> you know, up to this very moment throughout my entire career i've been able to avoid being the center of attention. i don't even like to get microphone checks t ae ss at events. but to receive this award it means so much to me that i had to face those fears so that i could stand up here and personally thank you. and in the early '90s, are i had the privilege of working with jerry. and i think it is so wonderful that john wallace led the charge to keep his name and memory alive within us all. [ applause ] since i haven't passed out up

here yet -- [ laughter ] -- if i could quickly say, at nbc we have some of the most amazing people. i mean for starters, ken strickland and megan ratty they are my bureau chief and deputy bureau chief. and it doesn't get any better than that. and every week i get to go to nbc and work with all of these incredible, i amazing people like jim green and ryan kernan and joe lobauch. dave foreman tony capra. i can't mention them all. i wish i could. and my boss larry. he's our director of engineering. you're perfect. and i'll have your -- hooked up by next week i promise.

[ laughter ] but my boss larry, he is our director of engineering. and he lets me design and build and install the latest and greatest methods for transporting our signals. and the only time he raises his eyebrow at my purchase request is because of my massive dyslexia. because i'm known to order fiber optics, transmits sters and a blender. i think i really did that. you know, i get those numbers. and also with us tonight is stacy brady. i can't say enough about her. she is our executive vice president and general manager for technical operations -- and her title is a lot longer but i can't say it. but she has guided under the circumstances -- guided us through so many processes within

nbc and the technical operations. she held our hand through the whole transition from analog to this complex digital world that we work in today. once stacy, we were building a sat truck. and i know she remembers this. because she said to me in a side bar conversation. she said, "always ask for the moon wesley". and with stacy she is the type of person, if you show her how to get signals from the moon, she'll figure out how to get you there. and -- i know i got to quit here. but -- but throughout my whole career, every step of the way has been my beautiful wife susan and our boys. [ applause ] you know, it is because of her 100% support that's made my play time at nbc so worthwhile. you know, i hope i've been able

to share with you how much i love broadcasting and how privileged i feel to work with all of you. and for me just being mentioned in the same sentence with jerry is an honor. so jerry, here is to you. and i really thank all of you. [ applause ] >> congrats to wes. and thanks to our judges. by the way i've been told that we're live on c-span too. so say hello to all of your parents and grandparents. the next award. the career achievement is given to a journalist whose years covering capitol hill have not only made impact on his or her colleagues but congress as a

whole. this year it's going to cbs news radio's bob fuss. [ applause ] to present the award is cbs news radio's executive producer charlie kay. >> i'm filling in for pete williams who was originally scheduled to do this. but he is on assignment in boston tonight. can't be here. bob and i have something in common. we both entered college when we were 16 years old. bob went to stanford. and we both fell in love with our college radio stations. and that really changed our lives. bob, by the time he was a senior at stanford was covering the patty patty hurst kidnapping at upi

radio and that led to a permanent job. he became the west coast los angeles bureau chief for upi and later spent many years covering news throughout the country for many years covering news throughout the country for upi and later went to the nbc and mutual radio networks. and in 1998 joined cbs news radio and we had a chance to work together there. 16 absolutely fantastic years. he got there just in time for the impeachment of president clinton and the subsequent trial and senate and extraordinary story that we will probably in our lifetime probably never see a story quite like that. if you have had the pleasure of reading bob's memoir which is called "kidnapped by nuns" which is a true story and available on

amazon among other places you may have heard the story of one of the greatest scams ever pulled in the history of broadcast journalism. bob convinced his bosses in new york that he should cover the very beginning of the new millennium, january 1, 2000, in the very first time zone. and because this time zone is right next to the last time zone, at the end of the day, he could cover both the beginning, and 24 hours the end of that first day of the new millennium. so he convinced us that he should be sent to tonga. he went to tonga, he found a location, a outdoor location

where the king of tonga would be leading the people of tonga in hymns at the stroke of midnight. he reported live on that and then there was not any direct flights from tonga across the international date line to i believe somoa. but there was a gulf charter. so he flew over to celebrate the last time zone to celebrate the coming of the millennium, and it only cost maybe $30,000. but it was worth it. it was very good radio. in the course of his career he managed to have one story after another, just extraordinary events, and the television side

as a star of an episode of "lassie" when he was a little kid. the story was there was a young kid, a disabled kid, who was sad and angry and in the course of the episode he overcame that and he realized what was happening. the dog looked right and he -- if you go on youtube you may be able to find this episode, but he thought it might lead to a career in television as an actor. it didn't quite work out that way and we're all benefitting from it. bob and i first met in 1988. we were both assigned to cover the ducaucus campaign. mr. ducaucus was not an invigorating or inspiring

candidate, but the reporters who were on that trip, we all got to know each other very well. we had a great time and we became lifelong friends. i'm so honored to be here tonight. we have, i think, a little tape of some of the highlights of his career. we can listen to this. >> cbs news capitol hill. >> he documents congressional triumphs torments, and tantrums tantrums. >> they blocked the democrats bill -- >> he has been a professional journalist for the past 40 years. but his first experience in broadcasting came well before that. his voice was first broadcast on cbs 50 years ago. on an episode of the cbs television series "lassie" he played jimmy who was angry at

his lot in life until he was shown the way. he covered everything on his campus including student election. >> students soundly defeated two fee assessments. >> stanford became a flash point for the vietnam debate. >> bob discovered that there was a broader market and he was a stringer for nbc radio. in 1974 he began his professional career. he worked for upi that would take him to new york, dallas and back to his native california. >> the same drought that caused such problems for farmers dried out the woodlands of the west. >> for 15 years he covered every major story in the west. >> the district attorney reported he could be released on his on cognizant.

>> they explore the outer reaches of our solar system. >> he headed east and started to cover the institution that he would follow for the next two decades. >> tom foley was then the speaker. in september of 1998, bob moved from one both to another beginning his 146 years with cbs news. he arrived as president clinton's administration was giving the constitution a thorough workout. >> i did not have sexual relations with that woman ms. lewinsky. cbs news, i'm walter karon cronkite. we go to bob fuss. >> we're live on capitol hill with cbs's bob fuss.

>> in the first of two confirmation hearings -- >> then came the big surprise. >> john boehner cannot believe that bob gust is leaving his home away from home. he has had no comment on this because she on a remote island in thailand getting a massage and never taking a call ever again. >> bob fuss, cbs news, capitol hill. >> that by the way was the only radio newscast walter cronkite ever did in his entire career at cbs. ladies and gentlemen, i'm honored to introduce the winner of the career achievement award bob fuss.

thank you. i am very honored and thank you, charlie, for that wonderful introduction, and for pete williams and alicia for putting together that video tribute. i looked good when i was ten. i want to thank frank thorp and the members of the executive committee for this unexpected and wonderful honor. as you heard before i came to washington, i worked in los angeles, and i covered the academy awards for many years. it used to always go to the oldest person in the room. i'm not sure that's me but i'm thrilled and honored and it has special meaning coming from my colleagues.

i also want to thank all of the people at cbs news for their support and friendship and say that covering congress can be challenging. explaining to our listeners and readers what congress is doing is not always easy but i do believe it is vitally important. our democracy depends on voters knowing what our elected leaders are doing. doing for them and in some cases doing to them. it was a privilege to spend 23 years at the capital doing that work. and it's great to know there is so many terrific reporters doing that still. thank you very much. >> we'll put this back here.

>> all right now for the final award of the evening the award for excellence in washington-based reporting of congressional and political affairs. one of the most pretigous awarding. >> they were special team because of their achievements, because of their personalities, because of who they were. and joan barone was certainly one of them. in her career, she went from researcher during watergate to executive producer of "face the nation" and she was barely 30 years old. that was in 1977 when there was very few women in any kind of

executive positions at the networks. she got the job because she was brilliant at politics and because she worked harder than anyone else. she battled cancer for ten years, and most of us that worked with her never knew what she was going through. our lives were better for having her as our friend. so the joan s.barone award for washington-based reporting really represents the best work in our craft. here is what the judges say about this year's winning entry. it broke up the tragic delay in health care, it showed real people who die thdd before they could see a doctor.

the winning team's coverage sparked nationwide outrage over the treatment of veterans and lead ultimately to the resignation of the secretary of veteran's affairs. one judge noticed that the piece embodyied the people of reporting that is a rarity these days in the 24/7 news cycle. the winner is cnn's drew griffin for his reporting on the crisis and the department of veteran's affairs. plz. drew is on assign ment

tonight this "keeping them honest" report is his. >> veterans are dieing because of delays at v.a. hospitals. this document obtained exclusively by cnn says that at least 19 veterans have died because of delays in simple medical screenings. >> tonight, the most disturbing example yet. >> a plan by top management at this hospital in phoenix, arizona to hide as much as 1600 veterans waiting many months just to get a doctor's appointment. cnn learned at least 40 veterans left waiting for care, many who are on that secret list, are now dead. in the case of a 71-year-old u.s. navy veteran, the wait ended much sooner. >> he started bleeding in his urine so i was like

is dead already. >> they called you and said? >> i said what is this regarding and she said we have a primary for him. >> it took six months to get the administration's attention and now the administration of the secretary of veteran's affairs. >> i think in the end, the president could not trust that they would recognize the problem right under their own nose.

they were ignoring the voices that were trying to tell him the truth. >> thank you so much. >> i want to thank you very much for this award, it means a lot to us. drew is not here tonight because he is working on the latest installment of our v.a. investigation, the first part ran last week. this award is a result of hard work by a lot of terrific journalists including the two main producers on this who are behind me and kurt this is a heck of a first project for your career. we started in july of 2013 and it didn't start with an idea to

get a huge story. instead it was a germ of an idea that we went for and it turned into being one of the biggest stories of all of our careers. what we uncovered was forgotten veterans dieing because a government failed to gift them simple tests that could have saved their lives. in the dozens of stories we did, we learned about dieing veterans all across the country. veterans dieing while they waited on secret lists or no lists at all. veterans who died because mid level managers needed their end of the year bonuses or dieing because managers wanted to tell congress there was no appointment wait times. what was really shocking, but it was not a ratings grabber which is why we want to thank cnn, anderson cooper 360, and jeff zooker for never giving up on this assignment and knowing

that the duty to hold up our end of the garden, a free and afresz aggressive press is very important. as is so important to honor the 21 million american veterans that sacrificed so much to defend that right for us. so thank you so much. have great night. >> thank you. okay let's get on with it. to say that the castro brothers catapulted on to the political scene would be an under statement. after graduates from stanford and harvard law together the 40-year-old identity twin brothers have become a force in

washington and in their home state of texas. joaquin was on the texas legislature before being elected as the u.s. congressman for texas's 20th district in 2012. he his older by one minute served on the city council after which he was chosen to be the 16th secretary for the department of housing and urban development. just last week he was made chief deputy whip, and julian has been named as a possible v.p. pick for hillary clinton if she surprises and decides to run. and eva longoria has sold a tv series based on the two called "pair of aces." while i can't tell you who is

who, i welcome joaquin and julian castro. >> good evening. we're the castro brothers. now you all want to guess who is who? ♪ >> all right. now we know that the travel restriction from cuba has been lifted, so we just want today make sure you meant to invite the right castro brothers. for those of you that don't know, i'm joaquin. >> i'm julian, secretary of housing and economic development

and there really are two of us. if you're seeing double you're not drunk, but if you're seeing four of us it's probably time for you and ruth bader-ginsburg to call it a night. >> the notorious rbg. people ask how to tell us apart all of the time. as similar as we look we're as different as left shark and right shark. for instance i'm more laid back, a little more relaxed. now that is because joe biden gave you a shoulder massage. >> don't knock it until you try it, that man's hands are magic. and joe biden is one of those people who is getting a little better at distinguishing us. in fact he recently gave each one of us a nickname. >> so i'm clean. >> and i'm articulate. >> tonight it is even easier to

tell because my tuxedo is black, and julian's is obviously white and gold. >> some people do struggle to tell us apart. >> remember that time we met hillary clinton? she took one look at us and said i must have hit my head harder than i thought. >> for the record, that was joaquin that said that, i would never make a joke about hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton sends her besz wishes and wanted to mik sure that everyone at this dinner had her own server. >> again that was joaquin i think there was nothing wrong with secretary clinton using her own account. >> she was in the state department, you think you get a lot of e-mail from nigerian

princes. >> that's right if you respond to one of those you could end up dead broke. >> hillary i would never talk about you. >> the real joke is people saying you could be her running mate. >> you don't think i would be a good number two. >> i know what it's like when you don't want to be associated with your brother like jeb bush. >> tell me this mr. hud secretary, if you're in charge of housing how many colleagues are sleeping in their office at night. >> i'm not going to use my unlimited vouchers on folks that refuse to work. >> forget that, what is really important for the future is which one of us speaks more spanish and that is clearly me. are you kidding me?

as the media keeps reminding us neither one of us speak spanish. >> spanish contest starting now. [ speaking spanish ] >> sofia vergara. >> jose cuarvo. >> ted cruz. >> macarena. >> mentos. >> don't cry for me argentina. >> let's get back to ted cruz. there will be an open senate seat in texas when he becomes president. >> yeah, but that campaign didn't have the best launch. his website didn't work.

people were fined if they didn't participate, even republicans said it was a bad idea. >> he is not just on obama care, he is obama care. >> that's why it is about time for texas to turn blue. >> seriously, texas is so red they approved a textbook that lists moses as a founding father. that's not even a joke, it's true. >> you can see how for text lawmaker, moses is someone to look up to. he is a white guy. he only believes in ten laws, and the only reason he has name recognition is because of a bush. >> well, speaking of burning bushes maybe that's why ted cruz thinks the world is on fire. >> the world is on fire? >> ted and his colleagues are not the best at being diplomatic. >> the first draft of tom

coughlin's letter was to dear angry turbine tuesdays. >> and aaron schoch first resigned from his office. do you think that he and david gregory talk about what it's like to leave the set of a television show? >> sounds like these guys have heard that one before. >> we have to stop getting our jokes from fareed zakaria. >> there are a lot of characters in congress. don't worry, you guys might now now be the least productive people town. what is so special about being a cabinet secretary? >> i'm 12th in line for the presidency. >> i thought you were 13th. >> sally is british, but who is counting. >> he has always been a little defensive like that. it's because throughout life i

have always been a little ahead of him. i was born at 2:40 a.m. in the morning and he was born at 2:41. so every yard i would set the alarm on our birthday and say i'm a minute older than you. >> why are you still talking about this? >> as the great political philosopher taylor swift once said, shake it off. >> haters going to hate. >> if that dreaded 3:00 a.m. call comes in, we'll be ready but if it comes in at 2:40 only i will be ready. >> you're used to being the opening act and tonight we're excited to be the opening act. you know i heard that he is in the running to replace jon stewart. >> it's interesting that jon stewart is leaving his long time home at "the daily show" less

than a month after mary wilmore moved in into the next spot. >> speaking of white flight, why are no republicans on the show tonight? i heard they saw three immigrants and decided to filibuster. >> there is a lot of important people here tonight, and stanley hoyer is here also tonight. boss, i would never, never, make a joke. thank you for making my brother chief deputy whip. once i explained to my mother it wasn't a "50 shades of gray"

thing she was very happy. >> if we could be serious for just a moment, we grew up in a family that had a profound respect for public service. so it makes sense that we went to college with dreams of becoming journalists and we spent the spring break of our sophomore year back in san antonio at the local abc affiliate talking about internship opportunities. >> as you can see we ended up a little lower. >> one of the things my brother has spoken about is building an infrastructure of opportunity. a infrastructure that makes it possible for each person in our nation to reach their full potential. >> it is no secret that we believe government has a crucial role to play in building that infrastructure, but we also believe an equally important role is a free, active inquisitive press. you're the ones that hold us accountable when future

investments are not made, and elected officials fall short in office. thank you tonight and for everything you do every day. your live of country shines through in your work. and even rudy giuliani would agree with that. thank you very much. [ applause ] the castro brothers. all right, all right, all right, all right. i'm now extremely excited to introduce our entertainment for this evening. an actor and comedian and is known for his work as the senior foreign looking correspondent on "the daily show." he has dozens of credits to his name and he has created a show

hoping to counter islamic phobia. please help me in welcoming him. thank you, thank you for inviting me here. and for making me follow the dancing mexicans. you were great. thank you to the rtca. i'm honored to be here in a room with so many esteemed radio and tv correspondents. i'm sure some of them will get here soon. it's tough. you have a tough job reporting on congress. although it is not that tough. i'll tell you i walked around dc a lot and i have seen scaffolding that covering

congress better than you guys. sorry, that is a tough joke. to be fair i didn't even write that joke, i don't know thousand got in here, the thing is i don't read the jokes before i sign off on them. so you know i can't be expected to read all of the jokes, okay? there are a lot of jokes. i don't know if it is a staffer that put the joke in here, or secretly snuck into my joke list maybe you're saying asaf why would you not read the jokes? isn't that your job? to which i would respond oh, now you decide to ask tough questions. and yes even though not reading the jokes under mines property ducktivety of the government we claim to care about, still talking about jokes, don't get carried away i'm talking about jokes, not the human trafficking bill, you might draw that

parallel and shame on you for doing that. but it is astounding isn't it? a butcher can't be a butcher if he faints at a sight of blood, a presidential candidate needs to believe in climate change. it's a tough job. i don't immediate to make fun of you. i feel for you people. firstly, everyone these days thinks they're a journalist with twitter, instagram. your job is becoming onbsolete. this could be the last fancy dinner at a marriott that you get invited to. i would steal the silverware. secondly, it has to get really borning to report on the second

most ineffective congress. i'll write your copy for the next three years. a bill fell apart today, democrats say there was not enough funding for homeless fish. boom. you're done. go home. nothing is happening. reporting on congress is like me writing a tell-all book about my sex life in the eighth grade. a lot of grandstanding, spending hours trying to pay lip service to my base. [ applause ] and finally the day ends with me just in my room alone filibustering myself to sleep. congress has a ridiculously low

approve approve a approval rating. americans hate congress but they get reelected 90% of the time. it's one of two things, one a flawed campaign and election system that including jerry -- jer manderring and big money, or two, it's number one. so what happened, the most exciting thing that happened recently is when the prime minister of israel came to speak to congress, right? that was exciting. say what you will about president obama but it took a black president for republicans to finally wish for a jewish one. you know however, i wonder if

netanyahu is aware that there is only one republican jewish congress man. only one. the republicans love israel, but the jews not so much. we'll give them our money but the votes, that's going too far. i'm also excited to be on c-span. yes. thank you. here is the thing, i'm not going to tack the bait. everyone rags on c-span. i'm not going to do it. i won't stoop that low. also no one is watching c-span so who cares? the only people who would watch c-span are in this room right now. i give them credit. what they do is hard. an unfiltered view of the working congress, no one cares.

you might as well put up a gas station security camera, no one cares. c-span needs to be more like cnn and just forget about the news. seriously last week i saw anthony anthony bordain break into "the situation room" about the best philly cheesesteak. the only way we will care about the budget is if the budget mysteriously disappeared. then you create a budget simulator, you get richard quest on a panel and you put me right in the middle of the nonaction. i'm riveted. or, grow to the fox news route. you get the budget to shoot an

unarmed black kid and then rush to the budget's defense. you argue that the budget was written on white paper and that's why this is happening. listen i don't care how this goes tonight because tomorrow it's going to say muslim bombs or muslim kills. it's bad for me either way. [ applause ] i'm just saying scare me, yell at me, show me that being reasonable is traeeasonable. that's what i want. or they can cover it like msnbc but their ratings are so much better. my larger point is thatly not make fun of c-span. i am also honored to be representing the american muslim community tonight.

thank you. to the two muslims allowed in here. there's not a lot of muslims in the media or the government. fareed zakaria. brian williams said he interviewed the prophet mohammed, but i don't know about that. i'm just saying that besides those guys, myself, and the president, and there not a lot of muslims in the public eye. we know he is a muslim. you don't, we do. you think he is black, he is not black, he is a muslim. wait until two years from now. full beard, four wives, lamb cologne, the whole thing. he is not here.

like he would be in the back? i don't know. he can't be here, too many muslims in one room and you don't know what happens. we might start doing the terrorist fist bump, the handshake, and then we have passed law. god knows where that would end. but it would prove to congress that it is possible to pass a law. i don't think obama is a muslim. you know why? he is a terrible haggler will. if he was a muslim he would have haggled that budget, he would have haggled the closing of guantanamo. every congressman would have gotten a suit from his cousin for 50% off. by the way i don't mean to make jokes about the president. before i came up here i was assured by 47 senators that any jokes i make about the president

will be null and void once he leaves office. we could never pass law in this country because of the constitution. and also because they cut off your handing for stealing. they stone you for adultery they cut out your tongue for lying, washington dc would come to a stand still. without no perks no one is going to run for public office. as a muslim american i want you to know that i denounce terrorism, okay? get that off of the table i denounce it. off of the table. i denounce it. we're always denouncing things. when somebody does anything a muslim does anything that's bad, all of the other muslims have to come out and denounce everything that's bad. as a comedian i can denounce carrot top. as a new yorker i denounce

winter. as a indian i denounce the red sox even though they're a different kind of indian. i'm going to stay stuff and then you denounce it. ready? not so into it? don't like that idea? not so into the denouncing. i feel you, it's because you're not used to it, that's all. especially the white people. the white people never have to denounce anything. right? i mean i'll make it easy on you. we can start with khaki pants before we work our way up to the big stuff like crystal meth depleting the world's natural resources. it is stuff, man. you know when muslims or people in the middle east commit violence, it is immediately islam, islam it's bad. a white person can write a

christian manifesto shoot hundreds of people, have a bomb in his car and it is bad parenting. he is unstable. why can't muslims be mentally unstable. i want to be mentally unstable. i would love to be mentally unstable. again, i get it look. having a little understanding of other cultures being giving an ak-47 at 11 and told god is on your side is part of what it means to be american. but there are people in afghanistan and iraq that feel the same way. all i'm saying white people is stop hoarding the crazy. it affects the way even i think about it right? a white person ran out of a building the other day and stole my cab and i thought what a

jerk. if a muslim did it i would think that building is going to blow. if i see a white person with a beard i want to buy his artisinal honey. if i see a muslim with a beard i hope she getting pulled out of a line at jfk. here is a crazy thing. i read a statistic that only 32% of americans know a muslim person. amazing, right? so here i am, people. i want to be your muslim friend. and to that aim, i went one step further and i e-mailed a bunch of high level individuals in media and government and asked them to ask me anything they want to ask a muslim-american. i got some interesting

responses. the first was joe scarborough, but i didn't read it, i don't think anyone does. then don lemon e-mailed me back covering the most important news, he said thank you for your e-mail. i don't know much about islam but i was wondering if the qu'ran tells us if that dress is white and gold or black and blue. hillary clinton responded with emoticons on facebook messenger. former president george w. bush wrote to me and said i'm constructing a diarama about islam.

i got a very touching e-mail from shawn hannity at fox news. he said dear assaf i would like to know more about muslim americans, their beliefs, exact locations. contacts passwords, weaknesses -- i didn't know where that came from. i don't know what he means by weaknesses. there is a lot of islamiphobia. i know there is americans burning burning burning qur'ans. and now they know that building is not a mexican restaurant and that is good.

swri i have fun with the whole thing. when i get on a plane i know i don't have to look both ways suspiciously before i put my luj luggage in the overhead but i do it's fun. i know i don't have to count my steps in an arabic accent but i do, it scares whitey. people that don't want to make the difference between a muslim and a terrorism why should i like a distinction between good, scared white people and racists. why? since i was sending out all of these e-mails to high level people and i'm a muslim, the secret service got in touch with me. i think that is a good thing. that means they're doing their

job and i applaud that. i got an e-mail at 4:00 a.m. that just said "yo man, you up?" i didn't answer. at 4:30 a.m. it said seriously dude, are you up? so i answered, yeah sure, i'm up. and then i get another e-mail back immediately that said yo buddy, how much do i tip her, she won't get out of my room, and what is the exchange rate in columbia. i'm freaking out. 5:30 i get another e-mail that says dude, i'm boning and e-mailing at the same time right now. i shut off my computer at that point. no, it's not fair, it has been rough for the secret service lately. they have been getting a lot of flak and it's not fair. i wrote a letter to the president in support of the job they do. i was going to mail it but i hand wrote it, ran across the

white house lawn and handed it to him in person. you can do that now. he has not gotten back to me. i got an e-mail from representative aaron schock who just resigned and what an office he resigned, right? his entire office was deck raids like the television show "downton abbey." it's true. but to be fair, you're all hypocrites because everyone in washington is doing the same thing aaron schock did, i'm talking about the way we decorated his office, just his office people, don't get nervous. many dc notables are decorating based on famous heavy shows. joe biden was like "hot in cleveland." and lindsey graham just

decorated with 19 pictures of aaron schock. he has great abs, come on. and i got the most interesting e-mail from the vice president, joe biden who wanted to know about the 72 virgins. everyone wants to know about the 72 virgins. this is something that i can answer. it's an interesting point. as some of you may not know 72 virgins are promised in heavy if you die as a martyr. muslim muslim scholars discovered it is not virgins, it's raisins. it was a mistrancelation. and now it's 72 raisins. madge ahmad showing up i am

here for my virgins all of the sex i'm going to have now. ahmad, there was a mis mistranslation problem. there are no virgins, but we have a lovely fruit plate for you. cheese, crackers -- it's not the same. also why would you incentivize terrorists with 72 virgins. it's the worst sex on earth times 72. 72 strippers and a race car and i'm signing up for hamas. i think it is time for muslims to come together and do what african-americans did when they

did the million man march. i think it is time for the million muslim march. imagine that, a million muslims marching down broadway. here is the best part we don't tell anyone we're going to do it. we just do it. the jihad is coming! cover your babies in pork fat. grape yourself in bacon. they can't touch you. question march down and surround fox news just to watch bill o'reilly pee his pants. it has been a pleasure talking

to you. i know you might feel like the congressional dinner is the junior varsity of the white house correspondents dinner and that is because it is. otherwise i would be cal penn, right? but i don't want you to fret. i don't want you to fret because there is hope for you yet. i want you to remember the words of our president from last year when he said isis was the junior varsity of al qaeda and look at how well they're doing thousand. remember congressional correspondents, if isis can do it, so can you. thank you, good night. [ applause ] thank you to cal penn. sorry, that was my old wishful

thinking script i had here. thank you, that was fantastic. [ applause ] before we all leave, i can't leave with expressing my gratitude to a number of people who made this night possible. my amazing team on capitol hill, kelly o'donnell alex moe you guys rock. i want to thank ken strikeland for your support and countless others at the peacock. thank you to our event planner ivan goldberg that makes the trains run on time, and for that i'm deeply grateful. thank you to the marquee m

marriott. i want to thank someone who inspires me to be better every day of my life. my beautiful and amazing wife jillian. you're my rock, the singular person that i'm here today. i love you. [ applause ] it has been an honor to serve as the chair of the committee and i'm deeply humbled to represent all of you. it's time to pass the gavel and i will hand other to the chair for next year's tv dinner, c-spans fred havostick, take it away buddy. >>back to frank for putting this whole thing together. and we're going to wrap it up by saying we'd like to see you all upstairs at the after party, and with that we're adjourned. take care.

[ applause ]

this sunday on "q and a." the last crossing of the lu democracy itaina. >> it is different when the question arices what happened. why was it allowed to enter the iris sea without escort? without the kind of detailed warning that could have been provided to captain william thomas turner and was not. and it lead to very interesting speculation about was the ship essentially set up for attack by

churchill or someone. and it is interesting. you know, i found a smoking memo and i would have found one if there was -- there was nothing from church hill to jacky fisher or to someone else saying let's let the lucitaina go into the iris sea -- nothing like that exist frs. monday night a look at some of the observances marking the 50th anniversary of the march in selma. we'll show you the 50th anniversary commemoration with president obama and john lose. then abc footage of the voting rights rally in montgomery, alabama. after that president lyndon johnson's speech to congress on voting rights. then the 50th anniversary co

service at a.m.e. church. on wednesday in a 5-4 decision, the supreme court said that a lower court must reassess whether or not alabama improperly packed black voters in certain ugh districts diluting their effectiveness in other parts of the state. the case now heads back to a lower court to evaluate each state district. here is the oral argument in that case from last november. it is just over an hour. hearing argument in case number 13895. this is alabama in case 131138

the alabama democratic congress. its black majority districts based on mere racial statistics alone and then used only racial demographic data to meet those targets with astonishing precision. these targets were not based on any consideration of what's required under current conditions in alabama as section 5 actually requires. rachel quotas in the context of districting are a dangerous business. they can be a way of giving minorities faced with racially polarized voting a fair opportunity to elect. but they can also be a way of unnecessarily packing voters by race in ways that further polarize and isolate us by race. >> so you want on the one hand -- they obviously had to move new voters into the majority/minority districts because they were all underpopulated. and they needed to move enough

so that the minorities have an opportunity to elect candidates of their choice. but they can't move too many because that would be packing. correct? >> your honor we understand that states are in a bind in this situation as has been true under title 7 and under the voting rights act under section 2. >> so but they have to do that. they have to hit the sweet spot between those two extremes without taking race predominantly into consideration. >> they don't have to hit a sweet spot. this court has marked out a legitimate path that states can take and must take to comply both with their section 5 obligations and with their equal protection obligations not to use the excessive and unjustified use of racial categories. >> the section 5 obligation, it used to require that there be no regression in majority black districts so if a district went from 69% black to 55% black you

would be in trouble. >> your honor section 5 has also required no retrogregs based on the ability to elect under current conditions. >> right. >> so if there's no racially polarized voting -- >> and they're saying thaws all we did. these districts were underpopulated were respect to other ones so we had to move new people in them. and we had to do it in such a way that there was still the 69% black population that there used to be in order to avoid retrogretion. >> your honor, retrogression never meant preserving racial statistics for their own sake. it meant preserving majority/minority -- >> oh, you can say that it meant. the only way to be sure you're not doing that is maintaining the same percentage. and that's certainly the way the justice department in the bad old days used to interpret it. >> it may be in the first decade or so of the application of

section 5 d.o.j. employed various kinds of practices as you described. as our breefts documents in detail, the department of justice has routinely precleared plans that reduce black populations as long as they don't reduce the ability to elect. and indeed, in alabama in the last round of redistricting if you look at the blue brief of the black caucus at the chart at 8-a, you will see that alabama dramatically reduced black populations in all of its districts in the senate and in virtually all of its districts in the house. and if you look at that chart you'll see numbers like a 12-point reduction, a 19-point reduction, a 10-point reduction 16-point reduction. >> why is that? >> districts down to 56%. >> why is that? why do you no longer need as high a percentage of minority voters to maintain a situation where minority voters can still elect their candidates of choice? >> for the reasons that this court alluded to in shelby county and the reasons that

alabama rightly celebrates in its briefs. black turnout and black registration rates in alabama now routinely equal or even exceed white registration and white turnout rates. >> you realize i assume that you're making the argument that the opponents of black plaintiffs used to make here. they said, you know, by require ing packing of minorities into certain districts you're reducing their influence statewide. so representatives in other districts can ignore what the minority wants. that's the argument the other side used to be making. >> yes, your honor. and when the voting rights act legitimaterily requires the use of race in the face of polarized voting then there's a national political judgment that reflects the tradeoffs, the costs and the benefits as there are to designing these districts.

>> suppose they're party a in 2001, takes minorities out of heavily minority districts and puts them into opportunity districts. for political purposes. it's for partisan jerry mandingering purposes. party b gets into power ten years later. it wants to undo what party a did. and it puts them back in a heavily populated district. is there a violation when party b does that? and we'll stipulate that its motive is simply to help its partisan balance. or partisan imbalance. >> if they do not use racial classifications, if they do not use excessive racial -- >> they put minorities back into heavily packed districts just as they took minorities out ten

years before. >> right. but the line this court's precedents have drawn is precisely the line between partisan motivations and districting -- >> in all of my hype thet kalz it's partisan. in either case is there a violation? >> if it's purely partisan in motive and they don't use race, then there's no problem. >> but they do use race, but it's purely partisan. the hypothetical is case one they find minority voters and put them into minority opportunity districts, unpacking the very heavily minority populated district. then the next party comes in and simply undoes it. and it uses the same calculus race. are you going to tell me -- is it your position? i think it may be your position that in the first case it's permitted, in the second case it isn't. >> no, your honor. our position is that race can't be used excessively and unjustifiably in either case. and the three-judge -- >> was it unjustified in case a when they were trying to have

more minority opportunity districts? >> if they exceeded their obligations under section 2 and section 5, if they went beyond the limited leeway this court has said that states have if they have the strong basis and evidence that's required if they properly interpret the act that's the legitimate path states have. >> do they do this for partisan purposes? >> your honor -- >> i'm asking if party b can then undo it for partisan purposes because i sense that there's a one-way ratchet here. >> i don't think that's correct your honor. and i understand the concern. if for partisan purposes a legislature passed a race-based barrier to voting that would surely be unconstitutional. they can't use race in the way this court's cases in the shaw line of cases indicate are beyond the parameters the states have. they have to have a strong basis in evidence. in this case alabama didn't even ask the relevant legal question. alabama didn't ask what is necessary to preserve the

ability to elect -- what might be necessary to preserve the ability to elect. they just reproduced numbers, statistics. and the way they did it is they just used racial data. >> you began by criticizing alabama for supposedly imposing quotas. but listening to your argument, it sounds to me that you are just as interested in quotas. you're just interested in lower quotas. isn't that right? so if they want to keep it at 70%, that's -- that may be illegitimate in your view. but if they take it down to the minimum that would be required in order to produce the desired result, that's a permissible quota. so why are you using this term "quota" at all? >> we don't have to use the word quota. >> why did you use it? >> i actually meant to use the word racial targets. >> do you think there's a difference between the two? >> well, there's a lot of rhetorical inflammatory power in the word "quota." but your honor the point here

is that there must be at least legitimate basis for racial -- >> justice kennedy's question i thought your answer would be there isn't a one-way ratchet. it's cromartie 2, isn't it? doesn't cromartie 2 say if you're doing this for political reasons, because many, many african-americans vote democrat. so what they're doing is trying to help the democrats. yeah, we're trying to help the democrats. okay. if that's what you're doing and they can't really prove the contrary, the burden's on the one attacking the district, whether they're doing it by removing some african-americans from this one or by putting more into it, it's the same issue. am i right? >> yes, you're right. >> and it's not a one-way ratchet. it's a two-way ratchet. which -- >> and it's valid in both cases. >> that's your problem. >> that's not our case. because our case they don't try to defend on that ground. >> your answer is exactly the answer i was trying to give to justice kennedy, which is

partisan manipulation, this court has said may be fine and constitutional. but the one thing you cannot do is use race as a proxy for politics or political affiliation. you cannot use racial targets that don't have a legitimate justification. they're not tied to current -- >> i thought you agreed with justice breyer. now you're saying you cannot use race as a proxy for political affiliation. but that was his hypothetical. that these people were moved because blacks overwhelmingly vote democrat. >> your honor -- >> you're saying that's bad if that's the reason they move them. i don't think he thinks that's bad. >> i understood justice breyer to be describing a situation in which you're moving people because they're democrats who have voting voting behavior data, you look at data -- >> you're moving them because they're black and you think blacks will overwhelmingly vote democrat. that's why you're moving them. because they're black. because we assume th