-- who had been on stonewall jackson's staff, to get people from this area to go to brazil as as confederados. he made an especially strong appeal to mrs. thornton who lived over here on beach street because her husband was killed at sharpsburg, loevited their home here but she had four young boys and he said they have their chance of full development to get out of here and go to brazil. her local minister, the pastor of the presbyterian church told him to leave his parishioners alone that he would their spiritual advisers.

the reality is they opened up but it was to be an outreach to our kind of people there. >> thank you. >> i just had a quick question. do you think the majority of the people, do you have any information on this, left for political reasons, not wanting to live under yankee rule or was it more economics hoping to reestablish a slave institution in brazil or elsewhere? and also, do you have any information perhaps about the states that they were more likely to have left were deep south states like alabama, mississippi or upper south states, which i would think it would be deep south states but i'm just guessing on that? >> well, let me start with your last question, yes, it was predominantly deep south states where it was -- where the brazilian government advertised

and also the ports lended themselves to transportation to brazil as well. although, there were some virginians. they would have left from norfolk and there was a man in lynchburg whose last name was noonen who was sort of the point person for gathering people interested in traveling to brazil. now, in terms of your other question, that's more difficult economics versus politics. i would say, again, you know, the fact that the brazilian government was offering land grants, you know, you could essentially go and have free land to work, obviously that was a draw to people who had been disenfranchised by the war. but, you know, at the same time,

that was also accompanied by even if you had trepidation about that, it was also accompanied by that post surrender uncertainty. again, it's very difficult to get into that mindset, but what's the future of the south going to be? how long are there going to be union soldiers essentially running towns and cities? is there going to be wide-spread abuse? what's going to happen? so that kind of fear and anxiety coupled with, you know, the economic factors, i think those things -- i think those elements worked in tandem to draw people to brazil. >> my name is dennis dunleavy. can you describe any higher profile confederates that went down south or were these just ordinary folks?

>> well, again, going back to -- i brought up lee and his disdain for people leaving the south, but at the same time, someone of that stature had alternatives after the war. there were things he could do because of his position and his rank and his fame and his standing. so, yeah, it was more of i would say junior officers and below who took this -- i mentioned the colonel william morris settlement. so i would say from that military rank and below were predominantly the people who left. again, going back to the doctor's question about why be

motivated to go? there had to be an economic need and also possibly a political drive as well or a political concern about what the future held. >> of course england and france never did recognize a confederacy. did brazil or did brazil take sides in the war? >> mike: it's interesting. throughout the war, brazil was essentially pro southern. but largely the reason for that -- you would think it might have to do with the issue of -- something to do with the issue of slavery but as near as i could discover, it had mostly to do with the brazilian emperor. the emperor's name was don pedro ii.

essentially, the u.s. ambassador to brazil at the time from the u.s. government from washington, d.c. had personally insulted do not pedro ii at some social occasion. and so that was the main apparently the main reason that there wasn't a closer association between the brazilian government and washington. it had less to do with politics and more with the whim of the emperor. so, again, that's where governmental and culture differences come into play. the ambassador was -- the u.s. ambassador was kind of a pushy person and that didn't go over

well with someone whose title is emperor. yes, sir. >> in connection with the settlement of some exconfederates in other latin american countries, was there in the case of the brazilian exconfederates, any people in the united states, any agents from brazil who may have organized any of these people to migrate to brazil? >> oh, certainly. i think if i understand your question correctly, were there i guess for lack of a better term, confederate point people that

were sent to brazil ahead of time and then organized migration? >> yes. even to the point of organizing people here in the united states to get on board ships and so forth and go down. >> oh, certainly. i mean, that was the function of the aforementioned mr. noonen in lynchburg. he was essentially an oppertive for the brazilian government to help round up people in the central virginia area who might be interested in going to brazil, identify them and then get them organized to travel to norfolk and charter a ship to send them on their way to brazil. so there were people like that in different cities in the south who basically championed the brazilian alternative. and then of course there were southerners -- in some cases usually the male of the family if he wasn't deceased who would

go ahead to kind of scout out the area, check out where the land grants were going to be, make arrangements with the brazilian government. then if they didn't like what they saw, then they might come back and consider staying in the south. more often than not they went. >> i was thinking about that because of this example you gave of the farmer who had been there for some time. it sounded like the area he had settled in wasn't as promising as probably some of these other areas were. >> well, most of the areas -- again, brazil is an enormous country. most of the areas were north, west and a little south of rio de janeiro. and so that essentially is a tropic-like environment. i mentioned the banana trees,

for example, in the description of the tennessee gentlemen. so, you know, the ground, for example, was typically very rich but as you saw the main problem was not having the proper equipment, not having funding and then the language barrier as well. i mean, for the most part the confederados really had to stick -- really had to stick together much in the way that immigrants do when they come to the united states today. if their mastery of english isn't very strong, they tend to develop subcommunities within the large ecommunity to help them sort of pool their resources and get along. develop sub committees within that was the situation with the confederados. they were immigrants just like any other kind of immigrant in a country where you don't speak the language. >> thank you very much.

>> thank you. >> this will be our last question here. >> hi, i'm theresa from charlotte, north carolina. do you know if there were other countries, other than brazil, that some of these exconfederates or even some african-americans who were freed but they may have immigrated on their own to other countries in south america or some other place. >> oh, sure. yeah. you know, my research was specifically on the confederados who immigrated to brazil, but there were some that did, in fact, go to mexico, even though it wasn't as inviting, it was geographically closer and other south american countries as well as britain and france and even africa. there's a film from the 1990s

called "ghost in the darkness" which is about a -- a former confederate soldier who becomes a lion hunt -- like a professional lion hunter in africa. a lot of these veterans just ended up or southerners ended up all over the place. there are all kinds of stories. again the what occurs at the end of military engagements across history, i mean, you just find people going all over the place and the records aren't always very reliable, which is part of the reason i think there hasn't been more research accomplished on the confederados. although i challenge, again, if there are students here and scholars, i challenge you to research in this area. i think it's a very promising area of research, particularly if you're interested in pan

americanism and speaking a little portuguese. >> thank you so much, casey. >> thank you, patrick. >> appreciate it. [ applause ]. you're watching "american history tv" in primetime. every weekend here on c-span 3, experience "american history tv "starting saturday at 8:00 a.m. and our primetime presentation for more information like us on facebook or follow us at c-span.org/history. our prime time presentation kins with more from the seminar on the civil war of 1865. at 8:00 p.m., the battles of sailor's creek. that's all wednesday night starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span3. this sunday on "q&a" andrew ferguson on his writing career,

the gop presidential candidates for 2016 and what voters are looking for in a candidate. >> they want somebody who looks like he's stood up for them. i'm amazed now to the degree to which primary voters on both sides are motivated by resentment and the sense of being put upon. and those people really don't understand us. and here is a guy who does understand us and he is going to stick it to him. that happens on both sides. hillary clinton will give her own version of that kind of thing. and i don't think that that was actually true 30 years ago. i mean, resentment has always been part of politics, obviously. but the degree to which it's almost exclusively the motivating factor in truly committed republicans and democrats. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m.

eastern and pacific on c-span's q&a. american history tv recently visited the longwood university in farmville, virginia, for a seminar on the closing of the civil war in 1865. the program was co-hosted by the university and appomattox historical park. up next -- -- thank you, patrick. our final thank you, patrick. our final speaker is christopher calkins. a lot of you know chris, he's a graduate of long wood university, longwood college when he went there. you were one of the first male graduates of longwood, correct, chris? chris, as you all know, has had a long career with the national park service.

he worked appomattox, fredericksburg, was chief of the interpretation at petersburg for many years. in 2008, he took over the position of mark manager sailor's creek park, which is about 15 minutes from here and really has done an amazing job revitalizing sailor's creek a new museum opened up in the last year or two. as i mentioned in the beginning, he'll be available tomorrow for some tours out there if anybody is interested once our sessions end tomorrow. he's authored 12 books, numerous articles. he's responsible for lee's redetroit route, where they have the pulloffs with the audio tapes you can listen to and has a booklet he did in relationship to that. he is actively involved in battlefield preservation, the association of the preservation of civil war sites, particularly building up petersburg in the past, getting a large amount of

land for petersburg battlefield. receive an award of merit in 2014 for the leadership in history awards by leadership in history awards committee. and again, author of numerous books and articles of sailor creek and appomattox. also a study of the 29th division in world war ii a new picture book that he was one of the coauthors of just recently. his talk tonight is entitled "the appomattox campaign nine april days." please welcome chris. [ applause ] well, this is a deja vu for me. when i went to longwood college back in the mid 1970s, as dr. cole said, one of the first males, we were day students, this stage here was used for all kinds of performances. when i was in the drama department, i worked the stage

here with such groups as jo jo gun and the grass roots were up here and i even remember the country western fellow from roy clark performed on this stage. so it's kind of weird to be back here doing this. back in 1971, i was living in detroit. i was 20 years old and i had a chance to come down to virginia and work for a summer at appomattox courthouse national historical park. i remember the fact that i didn't have a car, i got to live in one of the actual houses in the park. and one thing in particular i remember is a large number of staff at the park where these beautiful young ladies.

i think appomattox county, has the best looking women per capita. one of them is over there josie with the black and white stripes. she's one of them. anyways, i ended up falling for one of them. went back to detroit and found out there was a job opening. i applied for it, got it and the day after christmas, 1971, i moved back. unfortunately the young lady i was interested in was not interested in me. or at least her parents weren't. you got remember when i came down here, i had long hair and was from michigan. anyways, i ended up marrying her -- dating her 15-year-old cousin and that was 43 years ago. we've been married that long. but any ways, when i was at appomattox at the national park there, of course our story began

in petersburg and went to appomattox itself. there wasn't much information about the final campaign, of course, more commonly known as lee's retreat. in fact, the only book that was published at that time that even attempted to give the story of those final days was called to appomattox by burk davis, nine april days. i use that as my talk today. this book is what inspired me to write most of my other books. when i read this book, i had a lot of questions, you know, what does he mean by this? where is he talking about? and i was fortunate enough in that living in this area i could read about what happened here at sailor's creek, or whatever, and go out and study the land and talk to people and the story of how i found sailor's creek will be tomorrow's topic with a lot more personal stories to it by first person accounts.

so any ways, with this in hand and with a lot of questions coming from this, i began researching this campaign and continued to do so until today. but any way, what i thought we would do tonight because tomorrow we're going to talk absent the minutiae of south carolinaor's creek appomattox, the battles there in the talks and everything, so i'm just going to give a tactical, strategic explanation of what this campaign was all about and how they got to appomattox and why it happened there. also when i worked at the park i worked with a gentleman who was in the 29th infinity division in world war ii and he had this young son who he used to bring to the park occasionally for me

to end up baby-sitting. this young fellow would come and sit on a bench next to me and listen to me talking to the visitors. you met him first on this morning or this afternoon, that's tracy shinault. he was a little kid then. and when i was at petersburg, i was his boss until i retired. so, it's kind of interesting to see how local folks got interested in it. well, to begin with in talking about appomattox campaign and go into the detail but basically it's from march 29th, 1865, to april 9th, 1865, nine april days as the book once said. but i found that that the nemesis of this campaign really started as tracy talked about

the siege of petersburg in the beginning. when lee's army was besieging the -- or when the union army was besieging the confederate army outside of richmond to the northeast at cole harbor, grant being unsuccessful in attacking the city, breaking into the city, changed his tactics and moved around down to the james river and crossed over and of course attacked petersburg as tracy so ably told you. it was at that point that lee prophesized it will become a siege, meaning if he gets to petersburg, it will become a siege and then it will be a mere question of time. and in a one-sentence line, i always refer to the siege of -- the 9 1/2 months siege of pettersburg of the wearing down of the lee's army. well, anyways, foreshadowing

what would have happened in the spring of 1865 on february 22nd general lee wrote to secretary of war john c. breckenridge of the confederacy. he said, quote, grant i think is now preparing to draw out his left flank with the intent of enveloping me. he may wait until his other columns are near or preparing to anticipate my withdrawal. i cannot tell yet. i'm endeavor to collect supplies convenient to burkville. any come from the east of farmville know that burkville is just down the road. it was and still is a railroad junction. the same day lee also sent a message to lieutenant general james long street, one of his core commanders, said with the army concentrated at or near

burkville, our communications north and south would be by the railroad that's the railroad that came through farmville recently. we also the opportunity to strike at grant should he pursue us rapidly or sherman before they could unite. i desire you make every preparation to accumulate all the supplies you can. general grant seems to be preparing to move out by his left flank and he is accumulating his army near the depot of supplies and apparently concentrating along that quarter. so with those two messages general lee now prophesies he was going to have to leave petersburg and eventually head

toward north carolina. so again the appomattox campaign overlaps the petersburg campaign which is what tracy talked about at the end of his speech. the nine days from march 29th to april 9, 1865. of course, the petersburg campaign runs from june 15th '64 to april 2nd 1865. at the time of the spring of 1865, general robert e. lee with the commander of the army northern virginia who was born in 1807 was 58 years old. grant, commanding the army of the potomac and army of james in this campaign was born in 1822 and he was 43 years old at that time. as the campaign was winding down at petersburg and as tracy pointed out two strategic

points of contest were railroad, bringing supplies from north carolina and deep south. the roadway is now present day route 1. it was called boyden plank road and confederate supplies brought through it and appomattox and on to lynchburg where it terminated there. the battles of lewis farm. okay. so what we're talking about over here the fighting here to the west of petersburg. lewis farm, boyden plank road in there. all here and south side railroad

running along here. this is their final objective when south side railroad was cut, then had to go. the battle that took place there where the railroad was physically cut was april 2nd at sutherland station april 2nd and that night lee's army would withdraw. but the fighting that led up to it lewis farm on march 29th march 31st, dimwitty courthouse and april 1st the straw that broke the camel's back five forks. just a little side light on five forks, when i began working at petersburg it was private property, even though a well-known battle national park had spent six efforts to try to bring that battlefield into petersburg national battlefield. all were unsuccessful.

one day i got a phone call from carnegie mellon foundation. they wanted to know if there was any civil war battlefield land around petersburg that needed to be bought. just so happened the fellow who owned 2800 acres of five forks battlefield was my accountant. so i went to him and asked him if he was interested. a year later, petersburg national battlefield acquired five forks battlefield. that's where tracy works for the most part now. that is part of that. the most interesting thing about it is i found out two new stamps are coming out in the next couple of weeks one on appomattox and the other one five forks. so i saved the battlefield and now a stamp. beginning of the appomattox campaign petersburg campaign is april 2nd at which time the

evacuation of the confederate lines at richmond and petersburg began to take place on the night of april 2nd. now, when lee's army left the site there were four main routes from petersburg here you had general gordon's corps and long street's corps heading in that direction coming from near chester through chesterfield. you had general mahon's division. coming out of richmond was general ewell's command. this is a wagon train that gets captured. the other line, this one here which stays south of the river goes on to the courthouse. those of you that do drive our

lee's retreat driving tour that has been around for 20 years or so, that is the route you follow there. the reason we chose that of the other three, it's, of course, you can see here along that route they were pursued by union troops. they were fighting along the way in places to see. mahon's decision leaves bermuda hunter line, which is right in here, as it's the part of the confederate line that ran between appomattox river and james river. that's bermuda hunter. long street first and third corps. the third corps had been ap hill but under -- under ap hill but as tracy pointed out on april 2nd hill was killed so his troops were added on to long street. general gordoned second corps, all of those will come from the petersburg area right here. now, there was a small fourth

corps under richard anderson that was comprised of picket's division, which, of course had escaped from this area here from five forks. you can see right there anderson. along with anderson and pickett also was confederate cavalry. so in the federal army general george gordon lee's three army corps, humphrey second corps fifth corps and wright's sixth corps. they will be following here the army mentioned in the confederate white house pictures, he will be following basically what is route 460. now, at the beginning of this campaign, the federal army had

76,000 effectives by the time they get to appomattox they will have 63000 with a loss on this entire campaign of 8,600 men. that's the union army. on the other hand the confederate army ran between 55 and 58,000 affect i was. general lee will surrender about 30,000 of his men at appomattox and casualties will number 48,000, most will be prisoners as we'll talk about tomorrow at sailor's creek. when lee pulled his army from richmond and petersburg they were all to consolidate and move on here amelia courthouse. runs along richmond and danville railroad and goes on through here and crosses the south side railroad right here at burkville. remember that is what lee had

hoped to have supplies waiting for him at burk vim as early as february. when lee gets to amelia courthouse while army reconcentrating expects to find ration trains waiting for him there. through some mix-up they aren't there, so lee decides to spend a day in that area asking his troops to go out and asking local people if they have any surplus food items they could provide for the confederate army. consequently because he spends the day here he loses the one day's lead he has on grant's army which does not pull out of the richmond petersburg area until the next day after those two cities fell.

when he pulls out of amelia, his movement, tracy said his goal was to follow the richmond and danville railroad down to danville and then from there cross over into north carolina and to join up with general joseph johnston's army. that was his immediate goal at that point continue down like this. had his wishes taken place supplies continuous march. by losing that one day's lead the union army now swings around to the south of amelia and cut across railroad at jetersville station. consequently when lee pulls out of amelia he finds the union army in front of him. he has to turn around and begins what becomes a third night march

in a row. in other words, from that point on until he gets to appomattox his army will be marching day and night. so what he does with the union army here he swings around to the north of it during the nighttime and here at amelia springs he hears there are 120,000 rations waiting here in this town over by the south side depo. rations of meat and mill. taking the night march around the union army he will continue here and move into farmville. hopefully he can get there before the union army tails him. he gets to harmville, heads to supplies issued here and cuts south to keysville and reintersect the railroad at keysville and then continue his

march to danville. that's what he's looking for. as he moves though, through amelia springs and making his night march to farmville, he plans to go in this direction. but late on the evening of april 6th union cavalry, pulling hit-and-run tactics -- in other words, whenever they came to a cross road union cavalry attack line of march burn wagon trains, retreat and go to the next cross road that is basically what happens here at sailor's creek. i won't go into any detail on that. that's part of tomorrow's talk. keep in mind one thing we point out in our museum, the battle of sailor's creek, first of all spelled sailors not saylers

like a lot of folks do. that's a post-war spelling. anyway, think of sailor's creek as three separate engagements all going on at the same time one is a mile from another and the other two are three miles from the third. the one the majority of the park owns is hilsman farm. here you can confederate general ewell fighting against general wright's sixth corps, anderson and wes lee merit of sharon's cavalry will attack. this land at marshals crossroads, you can't see here it's too big of a map marshals cross road we just acquired property to add to the park. lockett's farm or also known as

double bridges, general gordon's sixth corps and humphrey's second corps will attack. again, tomorrow we'll go into the detail there. consequently here at sailor's creek, spelled correctly on this map, general lee will lose 7,700 men and eight confederate generals. most of those are prisoners. what that resulted to be is somewhere between a fifth and a quarter of lee's army are no longer part of his army of northern virginia. they are taken prisoners. unlike those who surrender at appomattox they will go to prison camps and remain there until all confederate forces throughout the country will surrender which usually isn't until the end of may. that's what happens to them. also there was a strategic item

right in here that was of high importance to both armies. that is high bridge south side railroad crosses valley of appomattox river part of the new state park. can you walk out there. if you looked off to the side you could see some of the original pillars of the original bridge from the civil war period period. what happens april 6th, a little earlier in the day a cavalry, group of infantry attack high bridge and get to it before the confederate army will use it. they will be unsuccessful in the battle of high ridge. next day at#yae sailor's creek union forces will pursue confederate forces across the bridge. confederates themselves burned the western edge of it. but there's a small wagon bridge underneath which does not get

burned and army's use it to cross over high bridge. what happens now lee's army concentrating in this area here farmville, trains open up with rations. those rations are issued. before he can move south to keysville, union -- cavalry and union infantry move around to the south of farmville near the area of worsham and hampton sydney college and thus they cut off that avenue to lee's army. so whether or not lee's army -- what lee does is he decides that he will cross to the north side of the appomattox river here at farmville. he will burn all the bridges behind him. there's two bridges right north of town, a wagon bridge and smaller railroad bridge. those are burned successfully, a high bridge portion of it is destroyed. by leaving that smaller wagon

bridge under it, still union forces will use that and cross over to the north side of the river. what is happening then strategically is that lee's next point of destination is over here at appomattox station. there are more ration trains, food and supplies are located there. that's his next point is to march through the town of appomattox, which is three miles from appomattox station which appomattox station is currently the town of appomattox. that's where the train -- the next point of contact where supplies could be had. so while lee is heading in this direction on the north side of appomattox river, two union army corps followed him, gordon and

long street. as that line of march is 38 miles from here to here, this line of march from here to here, it's only 30 miles. so basically what has happened is with lee making this movement to the north of the river, he's left a short road open to the union army. in the military there is a maneuver called a pinters movement and that's exactly what's happening here. as lee's army comes through appomattox courthouse and heads towards appomattox station, now the union cavalry followed by union infantry are moving around and getting in front of lee's army between the station and appear mattics courthouse. so on the morning of april 9th after an engagement on the night

of the eighth where union cavalry attacked confederate artillery at appomattox station and captured the trains for lee's army, and the next morning general lee, whose main army is in the village of appomattox here they now have union infantry behind them union infantry in front of them and shortly after union infantry on the side. eventually lee is trapped at a movement at the courthouse. of course, the rest is history. tomorrow, a couple of us will go into further detail of these incidents here. you can see how the military maneuvers of the union and confederate army brought the armies to appomattox. that was not working plan to go.

still planning to go to north carolina. even when he got to appomattox courthouse, had he been able to break through this union surrounding maneuver his next movement was not to lynchburg but campbell courthouse, present day rusk, virginia. at campbell courthouse, he would cut down and try to reach danville again. but that didn't happen. so anyways, after the attack on the night of april 8th after three night marches in a row, lee's army goes into bivaouc april 9th there is the battle of appomattox brought about because of the pincher's movement. when i used to work at appomattox people would say i guess general lee got here to this pretty village and decided to surrender. that is not the case. because of the the battle of

appomattox on april 9th, lee was forced to surrender because he was unable to break through the union cordon. anyways, general lee and general grant would meet at lee's home and surrender. 3:30 afternoon of april 9th the surrender this taken place. i'd like to close with in my years at appomattox courthouse national historical park, i had the opportunity to converse with thousands of visitors and get their perceptions on what the story of that place meant to them. many particularly southerners found it a sad environment, and one which they cared to eradicate in their minds. i could emphasize with them appomattox surrendered a way of life to a long ago generation. yes, i would agree the story of appomattox is indeed a sad

one. we as angel intelligent democratic society could find no other alternative to our disagreements than the field of war would lose for mankind the talents of over a half a million men who might have served future generations to a better capacity than cannon fodder. in a broader sense though, appomattox symbolized to our nation a new beginning on its path of destiny. the question in dispute has been posed to an arbitration of arms and were settled in a small virginia county seat village. on that calm sunday, we went from being both the united states are, to the united states is. the word indivisible was now rae firmed in the makeup of our government. most were willing to stoically

accept the outcome, and worked to rebuild what had been lost. robert e. lee himself instructed his fellow southerners that quote, the war being at an end, and the questions at issue having been decided i believed it to be the duty of everyone to unite in the restoration of the country, and the re-establishment of peace and harmony. all should unite in honest efforts to obliterate the effects of the war and to restore the blessings of peace, unquote. and it's for these feelings alone, the story of appomattox should be as proud an episode as in any of our past for all americans. i hope you will join us in a couple of weeks starting on april 8th in the county of appomattox, where the sign says where our nation reunited and from april 8th through april 12th there will be numerous

programs honoring and commemorating what happened there 150 years ago. thank you. [ applause ] >> questions for chris? it's a big campaign to cover. would anybody like to ask chris any questions? >> i'll be out there -- yes, sir? >> why were there no rations at amelia courthouse after the war, of course, the south lost the confederacy lost i assume there were no investigations. but there were post-war memoirs written. what happened? >> okay. there are numerous hypothesis is what happened. the one that i think is the most

realistic is the fact that, and again, tracy mentioned this very end of the siege of petersburg, general lee's headquarters was to the west -- far west of the city. at the edge hill. at turnbull's house. while lee was there one of his aides, walter taylor, instead of being available to lee, had gone off to richmond to get married that night. and so what happened was apparently in richmond, where the supplies were to be sent from they got a message from lee's headquarters saying, you know, we're preparing to withdraw our troops from the city. you know, send the supplies down the line.