>> on the need to work and desire to work? i guess so -- you ask me a question -- i want to comment -- like for me the issue is -- one of the issues is i feel like for some people they're going to be able to have this sort of option of maybe doing something meaningful that this has been started or that they've been drawn into, social entrepreneur started this organization, but i feel like there are other people for whom it is going to be hard, it would be hard to do that. maybe i'll give a personal story that may help i feel like i am babbling. maybe a personal story will help. i think about my mother. my mother had to take care of my grandmother, my grandmother got sick, my mother had to take care of her to the end of her life

right at the time of the great depression. then when she wanted to go to work she was in her early 60s, nobody was hiring. she had to take early retirement, claim social security benefits early. i feel like for her then she found meaningful activities in which she can be engaged through her church but then the reality is so that's fine, social security is fine, as long as everything goes well. and the reality of it is when the car breaks down, then the kids have to pay. she doesn't have enough to buy a new car, to make major repairs. any time there's something that requires a huge chunk of savings, she is not so well off. she's okay because she has kids that are employed that help her out. but i feel like it is not the picture most retireds had. when i have retirement, thinking i am on the beach, not a beach person but doing things and financially independent and not having to call us when there's

an emergency. i worry about the people that are set up in that kind of space where they might have enough to get by, but don't have a good chunk of savings where there's a crisis they can handle it on their own. those are the kind of people i worry about. >> the boomers were the first generation suddenly told midstream it is up to you to put this together. and savings rate is not that great for that group and at the same time people are living longer. perhaps some of you want to talk about that. >> chip and i probably have the numbers on hand. so i'll start. we look at what people have now at different age groups. this is my team at the news school, then project out what their income will look like. about six other groups at universities and centers do it, too, so our numbers conform with most of theirs.

so when we look at what people have, people at 50 and over on average have a little over $100,000, but there's a huge variation, and most people have nothing in their retirement accounts an ira or 401(k). near retirees look at what they have, and most middle class people, this is stunning are downwardly mobile and be poor or near poor. that's about $17 per day. the only way i can get my students and journalists and myself to understand what that means. so this is the first time that a generation since social security was started, they're going to do worse than their parents and grandparents in terms of income security. at the same time, many of them not all, that's the whole idea but many of them live longer, 15% have a chance to make it past 90. so bad things happen when you

get old. you're just at risk of bad things happening when you get old. so we are looking at what that might mean for state and local budgets because they're the first entities online to provide food and housing. we are looking at what this might mean for aggregate demand in a community when incomes of the biggest growing group falls. so and what it might mean for quality of communities. so i am seeing that most people really do care about doing meaningful activities when they retire. all of our friends have the choice to change jobs and change activities so they can control the pace and content of their day. but either you're looking for one of the bad jobs in america, with the world's leader in the creation of jobs that pay under $20,000 per year, they're

looking for that or they're looking for kinship networks to get income and welfare, and kinship networks don't work as it turns out, low income seniors often don't have the adult children that have an extra bedroom or anything more in their savings account. so people that have children that can help them out are usually people that are better off. so we are in a crisis chip. we don't have the social structure, we don't have long-term care insurance we don't have caring labor intact, and people are committing to retire lost more money than their parents and grandparents. >> when you use the word crisis as you use it, i don't disagree. the crisis is more to institutions than the people. i do think we will see the institution will change, but let's start with an institution that's been around for about 30 years, the 401(k) plan.

if you look at what really happened in the past 40 years, 1980, when they started, you had the boomers grew up in a period of time where we were slowly moving to a system where they were funding all of the risks all of the things we are talking about are risks that present in old age around retirement issues right, when you're not working. let's be specific. what do we mean by retirement. means you're not able to sell your human capital in the marketplace any more that's what retirement means either because you choose not to because you can afford not to or you can't. and that's what you're alluding to. and so the boomers i think my impression of what happened was we kind of over time over the 30 years offered the 401(k) system

or made changes to make the 401(k) system the third leg of the retirement. you had personal savings social security, and 401(k). replacing the more traditional style pensions. that caught boomers by surprise. i think a lot of them thought -- i think it was like a little nice benefit at work. i didn't know this was going to be what i live off of in retirement. and that came too late. so talking about why you can be optimistic about institutional reform, if you are a 25-year-old entering the work force due to legislation passed in 2006 you're automatically enrolled in a 401(k) plan. you are automatically put in a fund in a lot of cases automatically put in a fund that's going to take a fair amount of investment risk when you're young move down over time so it is more conservative when you're older.

hopefully you'll earn real money, rather than keeping up with inflation or even worse falling behind. your employer has the option of actually increasing your contribution rate over time. my point in bringing this up is we have seen institutional reform, an important part of the marketplace. if you're a 25-year-old and in a well designed plan, not saying all of them are well designed but if you're in a well designed plan, you have a good chance of having that leg of the stool being there when you're ready to retire. now, things we need to work on. doesn't cover people that don't have a job obviously. doesn't cover people who have part-time jobs in a lot of cases. so there's still room for more reform and improvement in the overall system but we have seen instances where there is that institutional reform. the last thing i'll say

beforehanding the mike back, last thing i'll say, again coming back to the point everything that we are talking about, we are focusing on the boomers, people in retirement. it is putting incredible stress on the entire system andpeople in retirement. it is putting incredible stress on the entire system and millenials, too. it is across the whole demographic. if we don't think of it in that way, we are going to make mistakes in how we reform the institutions, and the biggest mistake we could make is you know, asking the millenials to take on too much of the responsibility of what the institutional reforms, who we are asking to pay for institutional reforms. what we don't want to have is develop intergenerational resentment and sense of unfairness there that will lead to bad things. it is not just a boomer problem, it is a societal problem. >> and millenials are under their own pressure with student

loans, working for companies that don't offer 401(k)s or don't make enough to contribute. >> a lot of starter jobs are filled by boomers. >> i can find one other thing i would say as we rethink the system you suggested that we have to rethink solutions i am worried that the defined contribution that the new system of employer provided pensions that's not just an issue where baby boomers got caught off guard. the reason i say this, i have been doing research with a colleague at the university of michigan policy school we have looked at defined contributions plan, how they allow people to access funds prior to retirement how people behave. during the great recession, did people win face with financial pressure associated with economic downturn, did they tap

into those monies. we see not a majority it depends when you measure it. get upwards of 50% tapping in in some way. so i know we have -- i feel the train left the station but if that's what we are going to have, we have to think of helping people think about are you sure you want to tap into that during a recession because that means it is not going to be there. it is not sort of the baby boomers were caught off guard because they didn't realize that these plans would matter, i feel like even for those of us who our employer provided plans have always been in this forum we have things to think of too. there's temptation when there's a downturn to use those monies, immediate consumption seems more important, like not being able to pay rent or utility bills, even routine bill payments and how that's associated withdrawing down on retirement savings. i think this matters more for low wage workers. >> no it doesn't.

that's what's surprising, it is middle class workers and upper middle class workers who are tapping into 401(k) plans, with loans, withdrawals, rollovers cash outs. the low income workers don't have anything. the 401(k) has really preyed on going to use a word because we are in front of people we are going to -- i want you to sharply focus on how different i am from chip the 401(k) system is in many cases a predatory system. fees are quite high. people don't know what it is. protections of the money when it goes into ira is not protected like a fiduciary, so we are getting tax deferral money for retirement, and it is being used, not blackrock but other financial institutions, because you're still in the institutional space where you do really good things, but the 401(k) is inherently a fatal

flawed design system it is voluntary, it is commercially run. all of the money in it has to be fully liquid even though it is supposed to be for long term savings, but you can only match it to short term liquid accounts, and it can be withdrawn in a lump sum. we are the only country with tax deferred retirement money that we allow withdrawals before retirement. because other countries said we are giving you a tax break here it is for retirement. you can't use it before retirement. hardships are supposed to be something that happened once in a lifetime. to people with 401(k)s, it happens every couple years. it is liquid savings and they're flawed. the 30 year experiment with the 401(k) system failed. we need a mandatory system on top of social security managed by good folks like at blackrock and other institutional investors.

i wish all 25-year-olds were in a retirement account but they're not. as carol said, most companies don't have a retirement plan and it is falling. it is over 50% and it is falling, over not just recession, since 2000. small employers, medium size employers, even some big employers for big portions of their employees are not providing any retirement plan. so stop the $140 billion incentive to try to get people in it, stop predatory fees. protect all retirement money that's in iras. that's the kind of radical reform. and expand social security not reduce it. >> i will say there has been movement to go to index funds there is more awareness of this.

>> a lot of her comments are spot on. i knew she was going there. i qualified my statements, not all of them are well designed plans. i knew she was going there. look, the joke i typically use is you look at, you know, the affordable care act, what is 401(k) named, some section of the irs code. we never intended this to be the plan it is today. if we would have -- so my point talking about the regulatory reforms, we made the biggest improvement we made since its inception about eight years ago, and i think those reforms have shown promise, but teresa's point, it is not a retirement plan, right? because what does a real

retirement plan it do. it takes away uncertainty about when you're going to die. it says i am going to get a paycheck for life. how many people in this room know when they're going to die? nobody. none of us know. if you know, raise your hand. but nobody really knows when you're going to die. what we should do as a room, we should say let's put our money together, we are all going to pay out. unfortunately the people that die are going to subsidize. that i hope for whom that happens to that's not your last thought, right? i actually don't think it is many people's last thought, my money is going to that person. but that you know and people that live longer get to receive the money from people who died earlier than expected. that's the only way we've ever been able to figure out how to diversify uncertainty around how long you'll live.

that makes such a difference in the efficiency of how long your money can go. so if you're going out and self insure retirement risk you go to a financial adviser that says if you're 65 you're expected to live to 85 average mortality. on average you're expected to live, we should prepare beyond average. this is the case where not everybody is above average. so you basically are saving more money and spending less money goes less further than it could be. it is how social security works, how old defined plans work in that system your money went about a third farther. when you talk about a savings crisis, i feel bad. i know people are saying what do you want me to do i am saving as much as i can, i can't save that much more. if we could figure out how to make that money go farther in

retirement, that would be relief on the pressure of saving more. that's what those plans did. the biggest problems with these plans, putting aside, there are some badly designed plans that have bad fees, fees are too expensive on them. and i want to be clear about that. we are big believers in transparency in fees that you can solve this problem with index funds. but having said that, your money goes about a third further in retirement through use of that many mortality pool. it is impossible to get that in a 401(k) system. that's the thing that would go far. things like teresa has done around our bond i hope she will describe in a minute would be a great way to be an investment

vehicle. that mortality pools could invest in rethinking that mortality pool. today, the only way to get access to that is a db plan, and through insurance companies. insurance companies have their own issues addressing the dc market. that could make a difference solving this problem. >> soy think we should -- let's move a little bit to there is this savings crisis a lot of people don't have the money. so people are really working longer. they're trying to work longer trying to hang in there, and there's huge variety. does anyone want to talk to the issue of job market, how people are perceived when they're older, yet some of the choices people are creating for themselves. >> it is your turn.

>> yes. so we focus at encore on a narrow slice the slice we are looking at is not just people working longer but people who are working longer and finding ways to have some social impact, along with their longer working lives. so we are not looking at the whole market from where i sit. but from where i sit, i am looking at an example of working longer in the second row. one of the people i profiled is here, feel compelled to tell his story. fred wineberg retired as a new york city parole officer at the age of 55 has been working for 30 more years since in a variety of ways. he is now in his early 80s. he let's me say that because he trusts me and he's still looking for a new job as we speak. so early in his career he got a degree in social work at nyu and he went and worked, had a

long, distinguished career in law enforcement. when he retired, he did a bunch of things that are pretty common for people that want to continue to work, are healthy enough to continue to work, and who know they have to support themselves another 30 years. yes, he had a pension, he is one of the lucky ones but he needed extra money. and he faced some of the many things people face later in life. he is a caregiver, another issue that comes up for people. i feel like fred personifies what we are talking about. he hooked up with an organization called reserve, which places people over 55 with stipend roles in nonprofits, government agencies, and works with a lot of people who may not need to make what they used to make but still need to make money, want to contribute, want that purpose. he ended up doing work as we say, the kind of work that human beings are needed to do and he went back to his social work roots and spent a lot of time at

hospitals for special surgery, working in a group as a health care navigator, one of the new jobs on the rise. health care is one of the only growing fields we see. i feel like fred's trajectory is similar to what we are talking about. you're right, fred is not able to take a break. this is continuing. but it provides meaning as well as a financial safety net. the other thing that he did that i've seen people do in a lot of different ways he went back to improve his skills. he went to the police academy in his 50s, i believe and became a detective in brooklyn for a period after he retired. so we are doing a lot of work. started with community colleges four year institutions to figure out what are the kinds of skills enhancements people need if they need to invest in themselves and invest in the market. if you're going to have to continue to work, you're going

to need probably a different set of skills than took you to the first place in life. we say institutions have to change. another set of institutions that really need to change are learning institutions. how are they going to help this generation of people who may not be able to go back and afford a four-year degree a masters degree, it is certificate programs, short term training, and it is skilling you up for jobs today which weren't the jobs that existed 30 years ago when you first went into the job market. >> add into this one of the things from people i interviewed in the last year or two is first of all, a degree of variety among those people. they're all in their 60s and older, have had to face taking care of themselves in a particularly new way. they can't retire or they have to down size significantly. it is one or the other. they either have to keep working

or down size significantly. one of the things i am struck by, one is an executive flipping burgers at a golf course in his late 70s now, was out of work a couple years in the recession pulled himself back in, loves his job. likes the activity of it. another woman younger, 62, lost a couple of jobs, early job loss divorced had to down size significantly. she's living in a friend's basement in cape cod and working at a gym for $13 an hour. but she has a different view on her life, feels it is less stressful than the former corporate life and she's living a more relaxed life on cape cod. so i think one of the things i have seen is a degree of resilience required in older age that maybe was always needed but i am writing about it, and curious if anyone wants to comment on the psychology of

that even how that effects savings. >> i am trying to -- we look at thousands of people in our data set, and so what i am finding is that people want to live, and there's what we call scloj cal, if you live in a friend's basement, making $13 an hour, can't do anything about it a natural psychological thing to do is tell a reporter things are fine, i am more relaxed. right? but what we do find in this big data set you can relate to this if people lost a job involuntarily at any age, but especially older their rates of depression go up, and it seems to effect their rates of morbidity, how many activities of daily living you need, and eventually effects mortality. how you are treated in the labor

market effects mental and physical health. we are also finding, this startled me carol, i think we talked about this before that the jobs older people have now are actually getting worse on three dimensions. i feel i don't have control over my time at work and that it is a question of being monitored. there's a lot more supervision, jobs at the lower hierarchy. that we know from the whitehall studies. if you're at the lower you'll have more inflammation and risk of stroke. there's more bending and stooping 55 to 70 than ever before. we think that's linked to older people taking warehousing jobs. anybody saw the harpers article about workers working at amazon, that's a phenomenon showing up in the data.

i love the resilience of the human brain to say whatever i'm doing is just great but the real effects in terms of mental health and inflammation, stroke risk, seems to be very correlated with this. >> i want to raise an issue. struggle to raise it, and if it takes us off track, we can talk about it. one of the things you talked about, the woman living in someone else's basement. do something on racial differences and patterns in wealth. one of the things i think about also in relation to research and to my mother difference in home ownership rates. part of our glorified story of retirement in the u.s. used to be that when people reached retirement, they had a home they paid off. your story made me concerned. i am starting to think also for

some semblance of the population, they're reaching old age and don't have that bill they no longer have to take care of. they still have this rent check. i worry about your friend, right now she's fine. ten years ago when she has health illness and can't work, we have that to contend with that we didn't think of in the past. we think they won't have any rent check no mortgage payment they have somewhere to live at least. and that's an issue we have to deal with as society as well. >> important issue. >> the other thing, too, i think we will get better at understanding this, the presumption that you can just continue to work, and we saw the exception here cudos i want to talk to you afterwards, find out some of your secrets, but we know that there's a great

economist, when he speaks comments on decline of people as they get older starts in your 50s, accelerates through 60s and 70s. i tell him never put -- when you speak at our event, never put this out because half the room starts to immediately say oh, my god, he's right. i can't remember i am failing the test he is asking us to take. so but, you know, the take away from that is you know, we need to think about why did the notion of retirement come about to begin with? it came about in the late 1800s early 1900s because companies that were as industrialization took effect, you had people operating big machines like locomotives, they realize if you didn't give people opportunity to leave, they wouldn't. so you had people with declined

abilities, driving locomotives through rail yards to no good. so that was kind of how the early retirement systems came about in the u.s. so i think we need to get a good handle on okay to the extent there is a crisis, where is the most effective way to having the institutional reforms. i think one of them is we need to understand there are some people that will need assistance flat out. but there always have been people in need of assistance, there may be more of them. there are also people that can work longer if we can create the right labor conditions for that but we need to make sure they're making the right financial decisions before -- while they still can is the best way of saying it, and again create the labor market situation so they can do that. what we don't want is people making important financial decisions as society when they're in their 80s. that's based on research we know

today not going to lead to good results. >> given that we are all handling our finances and also our health much more individually, how important at this point are close family ties the difference of people that have that and don't have it. it is a little off this panel, but it is important when you get to that age to have people helping you with this. >> for me, i try to take it back, who is insuring your risk. you can hire a company to do it buy insurance buy long-term care insurance if you were in situation to do that, teresa could give us stats on people who can't. but you know you can do that. another form of insurance is like your family and comes with people that have enough money i'll give you, you'll get what's left over. if i spend it all, i am coming back on you. it is like this odd kind of

little tiny insurance pool of family members. >> let's be clear, it is daughters and daughters in laws. adult daughters and daughters in law. and it is the general gender division of labor. people taken care of by daughters and daughters in law do do a little better, even though they're worse off to begin with, hard to disentangle but it is pretty bad for the woman who is trying to -- she's working because most women do work and actually do the caretaking. even worse when we are taking care of little kids. so it does palpabley hurt adult women's labor force conditions and we are doing projections hurting her own retirement. so actually not having good care

systems, having inadequate income is hurting that next generation of working women and their families and their own retirement for the next generation. i am going to think of something optimistic to say before i leave! i just haven't figured it out yet! >> we want to take some questions. before we do that i kept hearing this phrase of 65 is the new 50. and i wanted to ask everyone here what they thought about that and their view, was that good was that bad, what it made them think of. if you want to comment on that. >> okay. in my circles we say 65 is basically the new 65. i think by trying to attach these earlier years, one thing you're doing is you are kind of discounting the role that

experience can play in life. when i sit, trying to realize, you just said that we need to kind of put new value on the human talent that exists in the aging population. that's the only way we will end age discrimination. owning your age as you age is a very important piece for ending age discrimination. so i think we need to out ourselves. that's why i was happy fred let me say that we are not comfortable with this. we all have to be really comfortable with that. >> so i think individually we are better off today than we were when probably you chose the 50 benchmark, we are on average more healthy have more human capital, willing to look for opportunities to use it. institutionally, our institutions are in need of help. you have that capability that potential, but you're not able to use it, and you're in a situation because of some of the

changes that we made in the retirement system itself, you may be worse off than a few years ago. there are good parts of it that you have the opportunity to perhaps spend longer and live better as you live longer, but you're doing that in maybe a context that needs some repair. but again, i think these kinds of events, these kinds of discussions are where the change starts to happen. >> so did you need something like i am teresa and i am 57. i am teresa and i am 57. when i hear that phrase, 65 is the new 50 i think 65 is the new 17 those are the jobs they're taking. they're working alongside the 17-year-olds. but i really like what you said, that 65 can be the new 50 or new

17 because there's a lot of worker training that people want access to not even just in centers, but also at their employment. so one of the unfinished business of the age discrimination act is that there's no discrimination by employers on how much training they give their current workers. even though i can say to you i am teresa and i am 57, if you're at work, don't do that. the strategy would be i would tell everybody, especially if you're a woman, do everything you can to sort of act younger so that you get training. but you might be right. maybe i'm not an activist or revolutionary at heart. or join a union. >> if you are in a position to hire, something you can do as an activist on this issue. >> and you need capital to be able to hire. and that's 7% of the population. >> i hope that will change

quickly. i think companies are increasingly aware. we are working with a global coalition on aging they're developing a set of principles, and they have surprisingly large number of well known companies subscribing to the principles about exactly the issues you're talking about. >> i totally agree and there's some hope. >> optimism. >> exactly right, that the biggest training that happens is on the job and that's where it needs to happen. >> i am optimistic and pessimist it can. 65 is the new 50 is positive for some and negative for others. for some it is possible to have a second act and support themselves, and think of people more in the situation i am in, it means that i am supporting somebody else for a long time. which it is my mother, my brothers and i love my mother and are excited but we look at

our peers we went to school with, went to the same private schools and college how much wealth do we have in our position in the life course compared to what they have. they have parents that still give them money even when they have kids and stuff like that, and we are making payments in the opposite direction. for some people, 65 is the new 50 is not as positive an experience as it is for others. >> 35 could be the new 50 too. >> maybe institutions, we have to think about the variation and experience. >> and we are not collectively defined by age any more either. it is where you sit, what your station is. >> that's right it is very different. >> there's commonalities that aren't age defined that aren't coming up so often in this conversation. >> that's true. >> i would love to open this up to questions. it has been a great panel. want to give you time to say some questions.

and you can ask anyone on the panel. >> hi i am going to out myself, i am michelle, i am 66. >> hey michelle. >> i am very clear. i am so glad to see this panel because i don't see a lot of talk about this honestly, meaningful talk. i'm very clear that despite what is called the recovery, mainstream america is struggling to put food on the table. most people are. i have a different mindset. but one thing i believe in is this ability to brainstorm and think of things you love to do that you're good at and create income streams and i'm surprised there isn't more discussion about that.

could be something as simple as walking dogs. when my business was slow a few years ago, i put up a card made a card on vista print for no money called the pet nanny. i went around, i walked dogs. why? i make no money but made me feel like i was doing something. i don't see enough of it. i think the problem is the mindset is that everybody feels like the ground was pulled out from under them. everything we thought it was going to be no longer exists. and it is a real curve ball, people can't recover from it. people need to hear messages about the fact that they can create meaningful alternatives maybe it is not what they thought, but revenue streams and such. >> so coming back, i just mentioned global coalition on aging, i was having a discussion with some representatives there, and i was surprised at this. they indicated that the fastest

growing entrepreneurial segment were people in your age group, that we all read about the internet, 20-year-olds making a lot of money or entrepreneurial, but the fastest growing entrepreneurial segment is -- >> and in that population, much of it is what's called micro business. very, very small operations like your dog walking operation. >> another question here. i am mickey white, i am planning to stop working this year. i think we really have to sort out. there are people working in jobs where experience is valued, legal profession is one of them. i don't know whether you guys

are like this -- i think people that lost their jobs, it is not fair to call that a retirement problem. that's a problem with our economy. that's conceivably related to the enormous inequality to our strange tax code. changing the retirement age for social security is fine for middle class folks who haven't done more than pick up a pencil or use the computer. i think it is probably wrong for people who have hard physical jobs. i thought the idea about using comparative mortality for 401(k) was a wonderful idea haven't been fortunate enough to hear it before. i would be curious as to whether the government would insure investments like marissa plans as opposed to backed by government insurance.

i think we need to sort out how we treat various issues. we need jobs for people who otherwise would have been employed in manufacturing when we have a short pool of manufacturing, maybe all of the problems we hear about asian manufacture of batteries and air bags will bring us back some manufacturing to this country but that's a long track. i would appreciate sorting out problems a little better than calling it all retirement. >> good point. >> we are seeing the effects of a lot of the issues you talked about and sometimes we are calling it retirement, sometimes we are calling it. >> layoffs. >> sometimes calling it technology, sometimes calling it globalization. it is really all inter linked.

what you were just talking about, about dealing with your mother, again, that's part of the same thing, what's happening to the boomers is effecting younger people. >> of course. >> and will effect even younger people. so it is all linked. i can tell you, i know you have a ton of experience on this policy makers spend a lot of time dealing with these issues and they're very concerned about it they also have a certain amount of political capital to be frank political capital they can spend. so just we made proposals around putting kind of letting people pool their mortality uncertainty in 401(k) plans seven eight years ago. rhode island treasury gave

guidance on that three weeks ago, so it has been seven years. one reason why they were -- they knew exactly what to do they are really bright people. one reason they felt like they couldn't do it in that behind closed doors, saying you know, we spent most of the capital on health care reform. we felt like we needed to do that. so those are -- just talking about people are talking about it aware of it, trying to address that but i am sure you fought good fights on -- >> i have good news, i just realize, the federal government is not doing anything but in 17 states and one city this city, new york city, stringer is setting up a plan to have everybody in the state and the city join a retirement plan. that would be basically a public

option. that would be an option to the commercial systems that it would be low fees and pooled mortality groups. california passed a law two years ago, state of connecticut scott stringer, controller of new york city and the mayor is in favor of it. this is the way social policy happens in the united states. you have a handful of states important states that have something that looks like unemployment insurance worker's compensation or social security and then it gets lifted up to the federal level. so i am optimistic about employers doing more training to older workers and i am optimistic about there being a government solution to the pooled mortality issue. i am not optimistic about one issue you brought up, before we start talking about people over 65 getting work we have to make sure the 25 to 65-year-olds are fully employed and we now have 50 million people underemployed or out of work, even though we are in a so-called recovery.

that's priority one. employer of last resort, if the private sector won't create good meaningful jobs, the government1 yh could. that debate -- >> that's more of a capital issue. >> the other thing we haven't talked about tonight which has been extremely impactful to balance sheets is what's happening to interest rates. we built an index and it tells people 55 to 75 what's the fair cost of your retirement liability. that index is up this year about 18%. >> 18%. >> if your assets didn't go for a 55-year-old, let me be clear. if your assets didn't grow by 18%, you actually fell behind in what the assets are able to

produce in retirement. >> wow. >> that's a lot. >> so the low interest rate environment that we have now and again, you know, i think demographically, you know, you are starting to see more studies that say is this going to be a long term effect where rates are -- >> we are trying to create jobs with low interest rates but not doing a good job and it is causing more retirement insecurity. why not go to wba. >> question back there. >> i am 59 years. i am only 17 years old. i have been following this conversation with great interest. you guys are hitting on some very big subjects deep subjects. and one of the points that was raised was about income streams

you know, finding ways of being entrepreneurial. that's a bigger issue i am curious as to what your data and search has lead to which is the issue of risk. one of those people, fortunate to create income streams, live a great life but only came with risk. risk applies not only to the search for meaningful work but to your point, sir, which is the risk related to aggressive quote, unquote investing required to produce returns in the high teens, right? that is not what we were trained to do or what our education and quote, unquote wisdom led us to believe. there's this issue of risk. i am curious what you think. >> job market risk, financial risk. the investment risk that you

made the wrong decisions longevity risk and health care cost risk. we all face it but we are all going to have very different experiences with them. you know what do you with risk you provide insurance. we are trying to solve that with just having everybody accumulate a lot of assets but what we really need is self insurance, we need pooled assets. >> and i think as an industry, financial service industry or more broadly in the academic community we have spent the last 50 years since development of modern portfolio theory we have mostly been concerned about managing investment risk and that comes with building a diversified portfolio, understanding how much risk is appropriate for your age and your situation and your goals. we're not that good at talking about the risk teresa just laid out. you can address them. i know we at blackrock are

working on these issues feel like we have good offerings for our clients, but it comes with, you know, the conversations, intuitive conversation i talked about a well diversified portfolio, i might as well be speaking foreign language 50 years ago. everybody knows what that means today. and what we need to do is quickly get to a place where we all understand what we are talking about when we are managing retirement risk, the risks that teresa talked about. i am confident we will get there, but one of my recurring strengths through the evening but we're just not there yet. >> the only other risk that plays into this and does effect longevity is minimizing health risk. and health insurance companies are finally incentivizing healthful behaviors and employers are also incentivizing healthful behaviors. has anyone seen the ad on the subway about reimbursements you can get, a small insurance

company that advertises get money back for joining the gym. and this is starting to become a really more common image that we are seeing and that's just another way that risk plays in that effects us all as we live longer. >> one more question. >> i just wanted to comment on something that teresa said that had very strong meaning for me. the cycle of this and getting depressed. retirement is not a word in my vocabulary. i hear somebody say retirement i close my ears to it. the second aspect fear. i think i recently one of my many communications with morrissey, i mentioned that i am working because i need to. and i am afraid what's going to happen if i don't work. i don't want to sit in starbucks

and watch people go to work. i have this strong need to feel like i'm part of the mainstream. i'm afraid. i really am afraid. we are talking about age. i am going to be 82 in a couple weeks. i don't think about my age. who is hiring people. but i go at it i say i don't think about my age. it is what i can do, what i can bring to the job. >> yes. >> that's what's important to me. but when mentioned the psychological implications, it lit a light in my head. it's so true. i can't speak for others. i can only speak for myself. >> yeah. >> a lot of people that i know my peers who have retired i say what are you doing with yourself? well, they're doing this and that. i get this superior attitude that i'm working, well, i'm still working. i'm part of the crowd. >> yeah, i get it. i get it. thanks. >> i get so insulted when people in my firm say what are you

going to do? >> i can't imagine. >> like there is nothing else in the world to do. but write a brief, right? i think that's gender specific. i think that people of my gender understand that the world has lots of wonderful things to do, especially if we're lucky enough to live in new york city. and i don't think you should worry about it. >> wow. what an ending. that's a great ending. >> wow. >> thank you so much. >> thank you for this terrific panel. and this terrific audience. it's been wonderful. >> thank you. >> thank you. [ applause ] ♪

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the clinton foundation recently held its fourth annual health matters conference this california. the opening panel on health innovation featured a group of entrepreneurs in the health care industry, including a venture capitalist who started his own health insurance company and a stanford university drop-out who started a blood testing company. and who "forbes" magazine calls the youngest self-made woman billionaire. this is just over an hour. >> we have here a very fascinating opening panel. i want to bring them out and talk about not only the disruptions and the positive way they have a made in health care, but why they do it and how they measure success in terms of people. so let me first introduce our panelists.

i'd like to bring out elizabeth holmes. the founder of theranos. she dropped out of stanford to start this company. it's a blood company that is now employing more than 500 people and is valued by investors at about $9 billion. not bad work. and you will see, she is quite young. and i first met her at henry kissinger's 90th birthday party with george shultz who is 92. so i thought anyone with that sort of age span has got a bright future. and since i'm closer to 92 than her age, it looked like a really wise move. 6 so let's bring elizabeth holmes out, give her a hand. [ applause ]

josh kushner is the co-founder of oscar health. who wants to do something really interesting, which is to reinvent health insurance. and how people interact with their physicals and the overall health system. i can't wait to hear about it. i had a highly unusual conversation with the chairman of one of the largest european insurance companies who happened to be dutch a couple years ago. and i asked him if he wrote health insurance. and he said yes i do, but we don't make any money on it. we don't have any government health insurance here. insurance companies write it and the government subsidized people by income based on their need. but he said we shouldn't make any money on this. we should make all our money owl of traditional insurance lines. i thought i wonder if there is a solitary soul in america who

would say that. interesting. this guy has some interesting ideas. so let's bring out josh kushner. [ applause ] >> joe kiani is the founder and chairman of mossimo corporation. it was sort of a garage startup that now employees more than 3,000 people worldwide. and it's production and distribution of a market-leading measures through motion and low profusion pulse oximetry technology. it's another one of those non-invasive medical breakthroughs. but i know joe kiani through his commitment to build a coalition to eliminate preventible patient deaths entirely by the year 2020. and he just had his annual conference not very far from here in