where people had their picnics and easter celebrations and all sorts of other things. so you've got the two that have been tied together for so long it's hard to pull the two apart. >> we take you back live to the university of virginia in shard charlottesville. live coverage on american history t.v. here on c-span3. >> it's a again instruction.

>> the topic of the second panning is the stream of memory of the war which is often termed the lost cause. we have there /* three his torians, john cost can i caroline janey and ed air. i want to start the panel to talk about what the lost cause interpretation of the war meant and what are the principal tenants of the lost cause

explanation for the coming of the war and the conduct of the war. >> i think it's important that we talk about the origin of the term. it harkens back to sir walter scott and the revolution or the rebellion of 1745. it's also important for people to realize while we today tend to think of it as a term it did originate during the war and used shortly after the war.

it was a term that we used widely by former confederates in the generation after the war. it was in fact a magazine out of louisville kentucky. it said, defeated but not

dishonored. >> it seems like a strange name to give something that you're in favor of. you know? it's sort of focusing on the lost part of it seems like an an admission of defeat in a way. historian: lost cause was a foil for it's lost but can't be lost because what is right that defeated but not dishonored. it was's a foil for making the point that you're making that yes, lost in the literal sense but not lost because it was wrong. but it's probably a good segway for karen.

ian >> they had not lost or be been defeated but turning to what the first panel talked about that they were simply overwhelmed by northern manpower and material and the fourth tenant that they were nearly god-like figures and southern women on the home front were devoted to the confederate effort. coski: what's your interpretation of slavery? janey: it's is this these men

and woman had been faithful that slavery had been benevolent and good thing for african-americans and we see a lot of this especially as the 19th century goes on this becomes increasingly part of the story. historian: what's the task they're facing? >> to some degree it's reactive that there's a pre-emptive fear -- the old adage that the winners write the history, that expecting and anticipating that would happen and that the winners would not only write the history but unfavorably to the south and already the context immediately after the war you think about the issues that were then current that were discussed

in the magazines at the time and newspapers at the time. particularly the issue of treatment of prisoners for example and other places and the southerners were guilty of war times and mistreatment. that gave a pretty good idea what the south could expect and how it would be treated in the history of the war so the -- to some degrees this was inevitable. if given the opportunity, they're going to try to exercise what we would call spin control today, spin it in a way that is favorable to the south. >> that's what i'm interested in. what's the scale of the thing they have to spin? professor janey: they have to explain to their children and grandchildren what they fought for. they feel this deep desire and deep need which is understandable to vindicate

themselves. they had to explain their actions. >> and they would explain their actions to the world at the same time. they're very aware from the very beginning of the entire sectional crisis they're playing to an international audience for a very long time. and people at the time of the civil war realize they are making history and so thoroughly documented thank goodness for his historians. the civilization of which they consider themselves a part is sanctioning what they're doing. what's interesting we need to remember at the beginning of the civil war it's not clear at all who has the moral high ground on that. lincoln is kind of ekweuf indicating on would he destroy slavery, no. but the south is saying what we're all about defending rights that we have from an encroaching power and some people in europe are like,

okay. it goes back to john's point about the british story of all this and sir walter scott -- there's a kind of a script you would follow about sacrificing yourself for a noble cause for something higher than self-interest or gain and that's how they spin it. >> they also have to explain the people who led the succession movement and have to find a positive way to talk about an event that cost a quarter of their military age white men killed and destroyed their social system. >> they start doing that before the war's even over. they actually begin trying to explain how it was that we could give everything we have and still lose. >> and overwhelming numbers is a get out of jail free card. we couldn't have won. there is no loss of honor. >> it goes back to the idea of

lost cause. they were doomed to lose. you see that kind of language up that was the insurmountable numbers that if they hadn't been fighting for something so right that they believed in so deeply they would not have been foolished to have launched and fought in the war. >> but they had no choice to accept war. the way we usually teach the war you lay out the objective strength of each side and the man power and the populations and the manufacturing capability and you say, they'd be fools so accept it. when you get to the end of the war and start talking about overwhelming numbers, we never had a chance, then it sort of raises the question of why the heck did they ever accept war if they in knew this was the inevitable outcome and what type of moral culpability. they accepted the war they knew

they were doomed from the start and put everything at risk by accepting war, firing the first shot whichever way you push to portray it. but they put everything at risk. they risked all and lost all. and it's not only foolish but it looks like their moral culpability for all that death and destruction by accepting a fight they couldn't win. >> that's why they don't blame themselves for starting a fire. they praise themselves once it comes to them because of abraham lincoln's arrogance. so you talked about the people who created succession have to blame themselves. but a lot of people who had to fight for the confederacy had to oppose succession and that ironically in the same they lost

in a war that they would have had good reason to think they would lose, the fact they went into it reluctantly shows. >> talk talk about just how the dramatic the shift of ground on the importance of slavery. the what they say retrospectively on slavery and on the question whether this was an impossible. just those two things. professioner janey: we look at the confederate constitution is written to ensure, if we look at the commissioner's book "apostle "apostles of this union" is a fantastic look at what they were saying and elsewhere trying to convince the upper south states

to secede and it's about protecting slavery and race relations and all the horrible things that were going to happen. democrats are using the same language to warn about the republican party prior to the election. but no doubt in the minds of successionists that slavery at the heart of this. they're not embarrassed in the slightest. this is something they're willing to stake everything on, whether congress has the power to control slavery in the territories. if the republican party comes to power and does that, then are they going to extend their reach to where slavery already exists? there is a real pal andable fear. >> it's not just protecting economic self interest but also the fact that chaos will ensue.

you'll have what they would consider a real civil war. you would have had -- >> they'll have haitiste hades. >> it seemed to suggest that the union -- that the north would be fomenting slavery and they had to scale that back in the final. but there is that fear and talking about playing to the international audience the british did not want to see in the haiti in the united states. while there was this forthright acknowledge of slavery there was this international dimension. they knew it wasn't playing well overseas and recognition was not going to come from the british in particular. and of course in the latter days of the war trying to get to send

a diplomat to france and england to hint we are willing to give up slavery for recognition and independence that was the last gasp. but there was a recognition all along and slavery wasn't playing well. if you read through some of the wartime messages you'll get a sub la playings of slavery even during the war. >> and you get an explanation it was the industrial north and south. they're translating it into terms that the people in europe could understand that this is -- they are threatening the very foundations of our economy and not about slavery, it's about this thing you're experiencing too industrialization. that ends up being reinvented by people of political opinions over the generations. professor janey: we tend to think of the lost cause and i

just said one of the tenants is that that it's not about slavery but that not 1865, that's not off the record. people are still talking about it and i have a quote from soldiers of the 6th georgia who are saying, absolutely we went to war to fight for slavery. men are not unclear about what it was that -- what institution they -- >> and they were predicting bloodshed and chaos as a result. >> the racial control part you often hear that only 30% of confederates own slaves which is true so how could you it have been -- everyone had a stake in racial control and that -- it's not just economic but also racial control and the reactions

to the emancipation proclamation including hraoez he was extremely unhappy with it. it's not invitation to sur vial war and the destruction of the war. >> they would say what the north is doing is knocking down the very foundations of civilization. they would say look how england is doing in england. they're keeping people of other races under control and that's what what we were doing. it all fits together in a coherent hole. it's playing defense and offense at the same time. it's very situational. depends on whatever challenge you give to it it heals quickly. >> but it grew organically. they didn't have a conference at the end and decide lost cause. everyone on board with that

name, write that down and then, okay, what are our points. let's go down them one at a time. >> but it's quickly how -- it's interesting. let's insert some human beings into this and talk about who some of the leading architects of this interpretation of the war professor janey: we certainly need to start with the war. >> we've already visited that. >> who actually wrote >> general marshall. but the we all know the language

and we could probably recite it in our sleep, but think about the operative phrases. four years of arduous service marked by fortitude that the soldiers were all brave and did their duty. it's compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources. duty faithfully performed and constantsy and devotion to your country. there were no desserters in this scenario. the soldiers all fought courageously but the women were all behind the war efforts. it was an organic unified

society in defense of the confederacy. in the confederacy in the south were the same. it was all heroic but lost and they lost because of overwhelming numbers and resources. and even though that was not new. you go back into jefferson davis's messages and he's no idea of a quotable man. none of us can recite oh-- oh jefferson's quotes are not recited but they lay the lost cause. during the war speaking about that kind of unity and recognizing this unity one of my favorite documents from the war in which you see the lost causes is address of the congress to the confederate people released in december 18, '63 and '64. things looked dark but they're not hopeless and most

importantly if you look at what's happening in the south today what the cost is of sub gentleman tkpwaeugs, what it means for us. we know what it means because we're seeing it all over the south states. the imperative of continuing to fight and be unified. it deals with all these things, superior resources from the north and so the unity and will to resist invasion and the invincible lee. he's this general and he's invincible. one thing that is different because it is during the war a long passage about the righteousness of slavery. rather than trying to subordinate the role of slavery, this is the greatest institution and the cornerstone. >> in fact what's going to be

lost sub gentleman tkpwaeugs isn't exactly what is happening during the war. what it brings to the destruction of slavery in a slave based social system. >> and turning black people into slaves. >> as well as destruction of property and the real -- the more tangible costs that people were already experiencing which are fuelling the resentment and the hatred that would fool the lost cause. >> to talk about lee a little bit, both his importance to the lost cause interpretation and his role in spreading this, does he have a role in spreading this interpretation? >> he does and he doesn't. leo oh can i back up here and talk about the ladies and little bit. >> by all means talk about the ladies. >> let me talk about the ladies. we have these ideas that are out there about lee already as this

god-like figure and the ideas that john just spoke about and very quickly in may of 1865 after the surrender and after lincoln's assassination we find it in winchester these women who had been nurses during the war they quickly transforming their role and becoming the chief purveyors of confederate memory. what they want to make sure those men who fought honorably and bravely had decent burials. they eupbs sta game this process which quickly spreads throughout the south by the next year of women's associations going out and hiring other people to find those confederate soldiers who were unmarked graves and bring them into confederate national cemeteries cemeteries that are

not unlike arlington or gettingsburg. it this is their way of paying honor who fought and gave everything to this cause. it he not just that these women eupbs sta gate burying the dead but it's the memorial. and the women are leading the stow but they invite former con fed rats former politicians, men like former governor to come back and give speeches that are political in their nature. the fact that women do this and women can say we're not political and they literally say these things, we're not political and acting on behalf of the confederate state, we're simply women mourning our dead but they provide a platform for po politicians to denounce.

they continually and constantly writing letters to lee saying, you can show up and give a speech or send us money and he thanks them in his private way but he never publically shows up at these events to give a public face and give his name and credence to what they're doing. >> that's part of his great contribution. to continue the theatre of disinterested gentlemenly noble a-political in a way behavior in the same way he went into the war reluctantly it nobled his sacrifice and the fact that he ends in a gentlemanly way nobles his sacrifice. >> they can do that. he's the most important confederate during the war and after the war.

but he's not really writing things and giving speeches. he's not out pushing this interpretation of the war that way. others are doing that. >> he's a passive supporter. >> sure. i'm taking the league. >> and the most important symbol. >> and if he's a symbol, he devalues his symbolism. >> like lincoln after his death he became more important to that cause than he did in his five years before the war and death. so much of the lost cause picks up immensely immediately after his death. this is within days organizations formed in order to start building statues to him. it -- >> to say things about him that he -- don't say those things, any individuals i'm not going to press this too long, but are there some people who are more important than others and had a real impact. >> there is a big elephant in the room named skwraoubl early.

>> tell us about him. >> early -- we can all talk about early. early of course is just what we're talking about earlier, no pun intended, of those who became not only architect but spokesman for the lost cause, but who had been a unionist. >> how strong? >> to be one of those 45 votes against is a session the time around. he was one of those even after lincoln's call for troops he voted against succession and took a lot of grief for it. but once committed like so many people starting with davis for that matter, once committed, the

commitment was absolute and of course he also -- ironically or maybe not so ironically but early had written from so many generals did and independent command in 1864 valley campaign which began well and ended disastrously and was removed from command. he suffered at the hands of lee and rebuke that could have hurt the man's pride and ego. but and then spent a couple of days after the war to exile and escaped to canada because he was fearful of the retribution for what his troops did in the burning of his place. when he finally came pack and after lee's death he became more or less the leading spokesman long the virginians who breathe

new life into the southern historical society which had been founded in new orleans in 1869. >> lee is central to him. >> yes. >> he lets you talk about the confederacy twout without talking about slavery. you can emphasize victories and long odds >> he was the best face than anyone could imagine. >> the fact that he had been a national figure before a sessional figure was important as well and that his loyalty was sort of anguished and then the fact that he gives it to the state before the confederacy has a common cleansing effect. >> that's the loyalty that everyone stresses. all you need to know about lee is that he's a virginian. >> i think early serves as a good reminder to us not everyone is on board with the lost cause and that even among those who are on board with the lost

cause, there's tension because as i mentioned these ladies memorial organizations had been leading the show since 1865, 1866 and 1870 when lee dies and early comes back center stage he tries to take the spotlight away from these women and says, thanks for all you've done but i'll take it from here and the ladies saying, no, no and we like what we've been doing and we like the role we have now and we'll take it from here and there's this tense gender conflict that goes back and forth. >> consistent throughout the height. almost every major chapter and evolution of the lost cause and the manifestations of monuments and organizations, there was a split between men and woman. >> is a split between men and woman and among men. long streets comes to mind. >> you mentioned mows buy, they

hated each other. >> let's -- what do you have there? >> i have a great mows buy quote. partly because mows buy is a graduate of this university. professor janey: he didn't graduate. >> he would have but he was in jail. i left that part out. i was trying to be colorado light. -- polite. >> didn't he shoot a professor here? >> longstreet and mows buy were critics of lost cause partly because they decided they should be republicans and that that was seen as the greatest betrayal of a lost cause issue is casting

your lot with the victors. why there was all this hard feelings, it's not calculated to make men love each other and neither is a rehearsal of the wrongs which each side oh skpoe he said, i committed treason and i'm proud of it. and he says, men fight from sentiment. after the war is over they invent some fanciful theory why they imagine why they fought. the fact it's not that they couldn't imagine the counter argument from lost cause it had to be rebuilt over and over again with different kind of constituencies. we don't have many other really leading confederates who take the lead in the lost cause. it's second or third. >> davis becomes a powerful -- >> the general to our --

>> gore do not -- >> we're all talking at the same time which i'm going to stop right now. john gordon. >> yes. >> i thought were you going to tell us about john gordon. [laughter] professor janey: he becomes commander. i think the timing of some of this is important to keep in mind that the grand army of the republics which was the primary union that are in the organization forms in 1866 and the confederate can't for political reasons don't officially organize until 1889. but gordon does become a very powerful figure. we can talk about reconciliation hopefully but he plays this role between promoting reconciliation. he's a senator after that and

that's something that he probably wants to promote. but he's very much a mouth piece for confederate veterans and thinking about what they fought for and making sure one of his big things was making sure that his children and grandchildren understood what the sacrifice had been about, why everything had been committed to this cause. >> and it gets harder and hard tore do. there are lots of quotes in 1890s. it would only take you an hour to put flowers on the graves. so we want to forget the time with the enemy as well. and people really can do -- want to forget and they'd like to move on with their lives and trying to figure out how they

navigate these things. >> they need to remember the thing with the lost cause, over half of northern veterans belonged to this veterans organization. a larger percentage of united states' veterans belong to their veteran organization than con fed rats do to theirs. they were thinking about the civil war a lot as well. a third of or a quarter -- >> how many? >> 82,000. >> do you have a percentage of what that would be? >> surviving, no. >> there would have been around 650 or 700,000 veterans alive at the end of the year. >> let's go -- you've opened the door for to us go to the strong notion that exists both among

interested laypeople who come to the civil war and in the literature and that's they lost the war but won the piece. how does that argument come about. >> let me describe how people would say that. >> on the political realm after reconstruction, the white south is allowed to do whatever it wants with memorialization -- >> on its own terms. >> right to build as many statues in every town it wants to. and more importantly to aadjudicate race relations. the people who argued that the south won the peace are focusing mainly on the fact that the racial order in disfranchisement and that what some of the

republicans had argued for at the moment of reconstruction is set aside. i think that the bottom line is what people mean by that. but there are other elements to it as well. >> i would add to it that there seems to be a popular perception that union soldiers didn't have a cause at all and that cause certainly didn't include fighting against slavery or for epans emancipation emancipation. certainly in my estimation, the lost cause doesn't triumph over other memories of the war. at least during the lifetime of those who lived -- for whom the civil war was a lived experience. we can make that argument by the 19 twenties, thirties as our next generation comes about, but unionists did not forget. they were adamant that not only

had they fought to preserve the union and many of them added to end slavery although it increasely has a different meaning. >> our next panel will talk about that. >> there is only so much history to go around. >> but aren't there cultural indications that the lost cause is gaining ground in significant ways? >> yes. i would be one of those in the tangible -- >> i don't mean now but i mean as we move forward. >> yes. with the confederate memory and the same time jim crow's segregation there is no coeupbs kwepbs there. what i was talking about earlier is this reactive and confederate

soldiers wanted to make sure that the -- that they could somehow prevent the winning side oh & mobilize quickly andgather the documents for someone to come along and write the his 30 of the war and they succeeded beyond their wildest imagination. that the southern history of the war far from the text book that they were beginning to emerge on the immediate post war period succeeding and painting an anti-confederate picture of the history of the civil war, white southerners, con fed rats managed managed to have it their way. one person i'd like to throw in is freeman whom we regard as a

pulitzer prize winning historian. >> twice. >> george washington and lee is a lieutenant. they influence the way we learn history. and we accept it without any kind of ideological axe to grind. but when he was a 21-year-old young historian and he came to the confederate museum and wanted to edit the papers and made the pitch to the ladies of the museum they say it was a lost cause, perhaps it was. but it still lives in the hearts of the southern people. >> his career of arms ended 40 years ago and only live for its justification.

it's subtle but it's there. and he later wrote in 1939 after "gone with the wind" and antidotes in his book i never bought the old story about the connecticut yankee and reading this mitchell's book pu he said in the realm of letters he seems to be winning the war. >> but if you go to the 19 thirties the greatest lost cause -- >> finally we get where i was hoping we'd get. gone with the wind. and the fact that -- >> we're having difficulties with our live signal from the university of virginia. we hope to return to the program soon.

we've lost our signal from shard

lotsville this. all day conference on the end of the civil war. as we work on the technical issue let's show you what's going on the c-span networks. >> here are a few of the book festivals we'll be covering on c-span 2's book t. we're live from the festival of books with discussions on books, science and american history and crime. we'll also conversations with authors and taking your calls throughout the weekend. we'll be in maryland hearing from authors from former attorney general and new york time's reporter. in the middle of may we'll revisit for live coverage of the gaithersburg festival. as well as former senior advisor to president obama david axelrod and then close out with book american in new york city where they showcase their upcoming

books. during the revolution she was considered an emmy by the british who threatened to take her hostage. later she'd become our nation's first first lady at age 57. martha washington on c-span's first ladies. examining the private lives the position of first lady and their influence on the presidency from martha washington to michelle obama. and as a compliment to the series c-span's new book first ladies presidential historians on the lives of 45 iconic

american women providing hraeufly stories creating an illuminating entertaining and inspiring read. available through your favorite bookstore or online book seller. >> we're working on getting our signal back from charlottesville. talking about the end of the civil war as well as the meaning of that war for african-americans. it's an event brought to you by the virginia ses ka centennial. when we get back together we'll have it for you on c-span3. in the meantime we've been traveling around the country bringing you some of the c-span cities tour. let's look at where we are this time. >> we're at the st. augustine lighthouse museum.

this is the location of florida's first lighthouse. so the current tourer has been here since 1864. the purpose of the lighthouse one is to serve as a location reminder to all of the ships in the area

as a museum we maintain that through volunteers and staff. we're a non-profit so we came in and restored the lighthouse and the original keeper's house which is from 1876 and preserved those for future generations so they can see how the lighthouse worked and how it was operated and the keepers that lived here. it was like a military post for them. they and their families lived here and it was a tough job. we have 219 steps to the top of the tower and they had to climb

up every 2 to 3 hours to put oil in and clean things off and wind the clock mechanism so it was a rigorous job and we want we have a team of archeological researchers and they look at shipwrecks in our area. because we're the nation's oldest port so they tpaoeupblgd ship recollections. so it can tell us a lot about the people who were coming from

going from st. augustine. at one time there was a ship recollect every two weeks in st. augustine so there are literally shipwrecks so we look forward to the next piece we'll uncover. >> we're live again in charlottesville charlottesville, virginia. >> we tend to actually focus too much on the cultural stuff and forget that the north wanted reconciliation because it had won everything -- exactly. they even reconstruction which we see as failure was a failure

from the viewpoint of african-americans great. they're nullified it. they're a symbol of the local autonomy. that's the main tangible thing they get and they have. >> i think it's hard for us to -- it's hard for me to recapture the south and northern allies of the south utterly dominated the united states government down until the election of abraham lincoln. it's a stunning degree of control and that never comes back. >> and how little control they had really. >> only democrat until the depression is grover cleveland and woodrow wilson should be

president. there would have been that entire suite with only grover cleveland. >> it's interesting that f.d.r. we would think of today the least southern president we could have is in power oh,he i think that's the big pivot going forward is that another thing we might look at over the long haul is the power of the federal government that comes in ebbs and flows in the conceptionization of it for a long time. the shifts to the cultural and race relation part. a lot of people look back and see how much does this rhyme with the federal government trying to stop the south. >> the one day could wield power was through long term city members.

the clock is moving remorsefully on and i wanted to talk the last nine minutes and 15 seconds how the lost cause resonated through the centennial. let's work our way back this way. >> the thing about the centennial, i think the key point about all of this is that there's not just one thing called the lost cause. it's constantly shifting in its configuration. the tenants have been consistent but the strategies that we have used and the emphasis have shifted. so it's a type of centennial is time the cold war. reconciliation is embraced by the white north because the united states needs to stay so strong and unified and people would point out without a unified united states they would not have won world war two.

that's another reason for the reconciliation as part of the lost cause to come in. i always tell the story about when virginia built its centennial headquarters in richmond there was a mercury space capsule outside. of course there would be because it's about at this moment celebrating what the greatness of the united states is if we'll only stay unified. of course we'll all know what was just around the corner in early 1960's. >> certainly obviously the civil rights movement is going on right at the same time as the centennial and there's the famous brouhaha at this point to put it mildly when the commission is a national commission is set to meet in charleston south carolina and

the african-american representative because of segregation laws and charleston isn't allowed to stay at the hotel. and j.f.k. kind of quibbles and doesn't know what to do and eventually they go to the charleston navy yard and they have their meeting there. but very much the social conditions of the south and lost cause message of the south is at odds in some way with what the national commission which is headed by eulis sus grant iii. >> your mentor asked wouldn't it be ironic if the centennial occurred within the context and debated in the same way and that's exactly what happened. questions about state versus

federal authority reletting to the state of race relations in the south. in my confederate battle the subject of my work dragged out the same way as a reaction against integration and desegregation. the second reconstruction. once that flag gets a new life has the symbol of white southerners who were against it. if he with were to submit this as a hollywood script we have got laughed out of the office. >> knows very well all the embarrassing episodes gone awry.

trying to navigate through these waters. and of course there was a lost cause back to the original question there's lost cause sentiment into the southern -- i can't remember the federation of the southern state, but there were state commissions that essentially the state commission formed a war and others to use the centennial as a showcase for civil rights to show the world that once again we are the righteous side that for states rights in defense of segregation and to use the centennial to show that we are once again on the right side is a political showcase in the hands of some of the more radical southerners.

>> let's fast forward to the last four years. i think early on in the centennial with the charleston ball in december 2010 and then the reenactment of the inauguration of davis and stevens inauguration in february to thousand 11, there were some real lost cause message that's were part of it it. those were -- that was not sanctioned by it and we've seen there is no national commission this time around. probably in response to some of the issues from the centennial. but -- i lost the train of the question. >> i think that in some ways we're having the session in which we're analyzing the lost cause as not just a presence but something with a history and i

think the big things of the centennial have been including everybody in the story and i think that in the past the lost cause had an especially large part in all this have and now in some ways the fact that we're talking about as part of an be a tkeplic topic may suggest it's not just the overwhelming con seven well cultural force to be taken for granted. so, it strikes me that we found the voice that also is not just the opposite of it that recognizes why people would believe in these things and why it mattered why some people supported it and some people didn't. all those suggest that we can see that -- during the civil rights struggle they so wanted to bring unification to resist the federal government and now that moment has come and gone.

the impulse for solidary doesn't seem as great. and people want to be respected and seems to me by putting historical knowledge and historical fact and trying to see things in a way because it includes all the parts of the history included. what do you think? >> agreed. >> take up to 20 seconds. >> it has been remarkable. we need to pat ourselves. virginia has been the leader and been remarkable and has made virginians to be proud to be the leader creating the most significant programs these sessions keep among them. yet, there is detachment.

despite the bloodshed of the civil war and the messiness of it it made us a stronger nation. the contact has changed enough that we can give it some rougher edges and deal more with complexity and i think if anything the confederate side of the story has been left out. the pendulum has swung the other way. the lost cause message is only not dominant but hardly present at all. probably get some questions about that i suspect. but we are not afraid of including more stories as a rule because we now realize that there are more stories despite the lost cause's tenant that the south was unified. we know that that was not the case. the evidence is overing that it wasn't the case. so we're not afraid to deal with the complexionty of the south and the fragmentation of the

south because it's true. >> and on that note we will break until precisely 11:30 when all be back and sitting down and not just back in the building. when the question and answer session will commence, if you have questions you still have your ways to offer them. so we'll take our second break. >> i've coverage here all day long from charlottesville from the university of virginia on a beautiful saturday morning in this area. that we'll take a short break.

when we come back we'll do a question and answer session and then we understand there will be a lunch break and then later on this afternoon a come of more panels one on the union cause and one on african-american history or african-american memory. this event scheduled to go about 4:30 this afternoon and our live coverage will continue right here on c-span3. >> we are in hotel which we now call the centerpiece of downtown augustine, florida. the man who created modern florida during his lifetime he was a railroad magnet and co-founder with john d. rockefeller and his little brother. he joined with henry plant from

connecticut, a man who developed the gulf coast of florida and they created the plant investment company. he came to florida in 1878 in part for his wife's health. she had consumption. today we would call that tuberculosis. the warm moist air in florida is what they are doctor recommended. they went to jacksonville and stayed there and from there made a day excursion. he was not impressed and they went back home to new york and unfortunately she passed away and a lot changed in florida over the next few years. he had the opportunity to bring his new bride here with the rockefellers for his honeymoon in december of 1883. the town was very changed. there were new modern hotels and cleaned up and the economy was coming back. he was much more impressed and then in march of 1885 he bought

his first piece of florida property which is the seven acre sight on which the hotel stands today. he decided when he bought the land in 1885 what st. augustine needed was a grand resort hotel for wealthy people who were beginning to travel up and down particularly the east coast of the united states, wintering in the south summering in the mountains in new england so decided to create the most modern fire-proof, convenient luxury resort in the world. and that is what the hotel response day leon is considered. it's a complexion of five buildings and 270,000 square feet and engineering marvel as the first port in place, concrete structure in the united states and electricity by thomas edison. by 1909 had a power plant that

lit more than 8,000 light bulbs. they would write post cards about how many they had in their hotel room. it had running water. they piped it out of the ground and ran through four fountains to take out the minerals. and from there that ran the hydraulics of the water-driven 3 elevators, otis elevators. again, modern conveniences at the time. we're in the rotunda or lobby. this was the centerpiece of the building when you first walked in. it's very strong and masculine and this is where men guests would come in and check in. this is also where you get the first impression of the hotel. so it's the wow factor is pretty strong in here. the building

has eight greek ladies that are carved and they are supporting the building. through them is run steel pipes all the way up to the dome. this building is unreforced with the exception of a couple of places and this is it and that's what supports the top of the building five stories up. the marble on the floor is italian and wainscoating on the walls and the lower arches honor the explorers. the hotel operated from its opening in 1888 until april of 1967. well you would have had people like william k. vanderbilt. you would have had william rockefeller, for example. probably the most important people if we think about the united states history are the eight presidents or men that would have been presidents that

would have come through here. william mckinley was governor of ohio running for president. grover cleveland stayed five times and just a few days after the building opened in 1888. franklin roosevelt came as a college kid with his mom on vacation. shortly after he become engaged to eleanor. uncle teddy came in october 1905. since it was a winter resort it was not open and they opened the hotel and set everything up for him to spend 24 hours. harding came for 20 years during the 20th century including staying here after he had been elected and before he was inaugurated he created his cabinet literally by interviewing people and having them here. he was here 20 years and played a lot of golf. maybe the most exciting is john f. kennedy came with his family when he was 13 years old. when the kennedys came for first

time to head down on the railroad to palm beach to buy what would be later known as the kennedy compound and the last president was vice president lyndon johnson when he was here to kick off the 400th anniversary and he did that and he was here and had been invited and promised do that. we are in the hotel's grand parlor. this is a very feminine space that was designed as a gathering place inshallitially for women and became a second ballroom to be used. women would come in the side entrances from the courtyard. their luggage would go up to their rooms and be unpacked and come in this area to sit, chat, write letters. it is light and airy and

features 11 crystal chandeliers designed by tiffany and gold leaf throughout. it also is the place that we have most of the artwork that remains from the collection that was exhibited here in the hotel. it has 40 paintings to show here including the third wife. over here and opposite her we have a portrait of henry flagler himself on this side. we use this now as what we call the flagler room. it's our museum room in that it reflects the historic furniture and 20th century furniture as the hotel was updated. probably the most important features in this room we have in the four quadrants, the corners

spaces of the room, canvas murals created by artist. his work extremely popular. they were in hotels in the late 19th and early 20th century and private homes. the almost all of those were destroyed for the sky scrapers in downtown new york. to the best of my knowledge we have the only collection of four that remains anywhere. these cherub theme murals are done on can skpras called dreams of love and the only other mural that i know that exists was commissioned by mrs. thomas edison after she saw the murals in here and they have one of those and it is the den in their house in new jersey. i'm going to walk you into the center of this space. this is a very ceremonial place. this is the area that would have

been closed off for presidents have to private entertainment to be able to meet with dignitaries to, to be able to socialize. tiffany, the glass artist, worked with carrere and hastings and he's credited with some of the interior design including this room. if you are familiar with his father, charles lewis tiffany, the jewelry designer, you'll recognize the color trademark in 1945 that is the centerpiece of our ceiling in this room. we are in the college dining hall which was built as the dining hall. it is also considered one of the 150 greatest rooms in the united states by architectural historians and had celebratory events and activities since the hotel opened in 1888 and also

the place where our students these days get as much as they want to eat three times a day and they refer to it as hogwarts. very popular architecturally. the 79 tiffany stain glassed windows are the largest collection in the world in their original location. you can see the half round calder calderron windows and on the east and west sides of the main dining room, the set of windows there. tiffany did these in his first glass works when he first began the company he had been here to st. augustine and worked with thomas edison and worked with flagler and carrere and hastings and his windows are much more geometric than in his later career when he got into the art nouveau period and lamps.

in 1966 the united states passed the national preservation act and this hotel, the owner at that time laurence lewis jr. probably the way to preserve his legacy, was to recognize it needed to fit in that preservation framework. when it close in the 1967 it was the idea they would preserve the building as part of a women's college. in 1971 that college became coed and at that time bill proctor came in as the president and they were committed to preservation and they're still here. that's the huge reason for the success of this effort. 1971 way a coed situation and they worked on redoing hotel rooms to make them -- to add what we would now call dorm rooms or rezal houseresidential

housing. the building was 100 years old and the murals at that time had the paint was coming off the plaster on the ceilings and on the walls and they collaborated op the restoration with a series of museum designers and archivists and were working on the ceiling at the same time that the vatican was working on the restoration of michelangelo's sys seen chapel's ceiling. they went to virginia to be restored in theshapb dough what's studios. 1893 they were restored as well. the college is recognized nationally as one of the most attractive campuses in the united states. many people come here to tour the campus that have no need for

a college. but we have probably about 100,000 people who come through the building as tourists and at least a million people who go by the building to look at the outside ofit is very iconic. it's story has been touted nationally by the national trust and the council of higher education. we are very proud of that fact and work very hard to maintain this room and the historic space. saint augustine's like it's the it's really evident each day and the way we move through the street and the buildings that we see. certainly, we are standing in the building that is recognized most rectally with him in northeast florida. people recognize that saint augustine would not have become economically well off, would not be physically, aesthetically attractive probably if it was not for henry coming here and