some of them are undocumented hispanic hispanic workers. it's greatly impacted african-americans in this business. how has that factored into your report and how will it impact the overall employment of african-americans once america embraces making the undocumented workers citizens? >> that's a good question. there's a lot of directions i could go on that one. first, i would say that that's an issue that has been raised for some time whether or not increased immigration has resulted in displacement of african-american workers. i think the point that you make is salient because you're talking about your community in your city. i think nationally we don't tend to see that as much. in certain communities and certain areas, where there's more localized labor market, i think there are those tensions. on the other side of that the existence of large number of

undocumented workers serves to suppress wages overall. fp there are people who can be hired and are potentially exploitable because there's the employers can hold it over their head the fact they could deport them or report them. that suppressed wages for everyone. there's sort of two sides to the issue. when we dwet to the level of unemployment that's closer to full employment andy gave the examples of looking for workers. there's a demand for workers then more people will be em ploiped. the challenge we face now while we see this sort of displacement at the local level is there's still a lot of slack in the labor market.

>> tell us who you are. give us your name. >> in your comments you said you work better in the physical element. we have three major disruptions in our economy. the deep recession which i call great recession and the second vegs of 2008. there's a singularity between

all three of those. that is we had major tax reductions both in capital gains and the highest rate employment went down also. what i'm trying to say is the economy starts out good and we lowered the tax rates and things like that, they have good response to it. then we leave those in because they're in a recession. we leave those in until the economy eats up too much. would be amphetamine r for you, nor the fed and your job if we reduce the stimuli and the income tax first before you had to raise interest rates. >> thank you. >> well, it's difficult to make fine tuning changes in the tax

code which is a bit complicated thing. in addition, it needs to be symmetrical. perhaps more effective but i agree that fiscal policy needs to have as many objectives and goals. one of them should be to try to mitigate both recessions and overshooting. >> can give you the last word because you were so disciplined in your presentation. tell us how you see the politics of better fiscal policies so that we don't all leave here

incredibly depressed? >> sure. good question. my book is called the reconnection agenda. i devote the last chapter to thinking about how would we get to a politics where anyone would want to do the thing i just wrote about for 150 pages which seems like a worthy thing to undertake. i take a lot of solace and encouragement from the fact these issues around the disconnect means overall growth and broadly shared prosperity is a very much a bipartisan concern right now. there's actually an article i just read today or yesterday in the times documenting how, it was mitt romney a few weeks ago with concerns about income and equality. they are all talking about this now. you can go do a cynical place and argue it's just politics. i'm sure there's something to it. i actually think there's an underlying demand for a

reconnection agenda and our job, which i know we try to do at the center day in and day out. i think we're all trying to do and you as well is to separate the wheat from the shaft. what's an agenda that the work and what's one that's just an ineffective agenda that takes on the words income inequality and poverty poverty. i think going forward with the general election coming there's going to be a lot of argue menation and discussion about this. it's up to us to talk about an agenda and articulate with the kind of results we're hearing today what will really work and what won't. >> very good. join me in thanking all the panelists. [ applause ]

$170 billion spending plan that includes disability compensation compensation. live coverage starts in about 90 minutes here on c-span3. u.s. ambassador to yemen talks about ongoing conflict in that nation and what the administration's commitments, partnerships and plans are for counter terrorism efforts are in yemen and the region. he testified last week for the house of foreign affairs committee.

>> the subcommittee will come to order. after recognizing myself and ranking member deutch for five minutes soon as he shows up each for opening statements, i will then recognize other members seeking recognition for one minute. we will then hear from our witness, and without objection mr. ambassador your prepared statements will be made a part of the record. members may have five days in which to insert statements and questions for the record subject to the length limitation and the rules. i'd like to note for the record that the subcommittee invited the department of defense to send an official to testify before us this afternoon but d.o.d. stated that they were unable to participate at this hearing and declined to come. but we got better of the deal

because we have you, mr. ambassador. the chair now recognizes herself for five minutes. on september 10th of last year president obama announced to the american public his plan to degrade and destroy the terrorist group isil. while making his case for america's role in the fight against isil, the president highlighted our strategy in yemen and held it up as a model of success to be emulated in the fight against isil. yet about a week later the iran-backed houthis seized control of the capital and the government. despite this the administration continued to hail our counterterror operations in yemen as a model for success even though we effectively had no partner on the ground since president hadi was forced to flee. but perhaps even more astonishingly in what can only be described as alarmingly tone deaf and short-sighted, when press secretary earnest was asked at a press briefing if this model was still successful after the yemeni central

government collapsed and the u.s. withdrew all of our personnel including our special forces, he said yes, despite all indications pointing to the contrary. so where do we stand now? that's the important question. president hadi was forced to flee. saudi arabia has led a coalition of over ten arab nations in "operation decisive storm" which so far has consisted of air strikes only but very well could include ground forces in the near future. iran feels emboldened in yemen because of the leverage it has gained over the administration include the nuclear negotiations. but i commend the gulf countries, the gcc countries, for taking a strong stance against iran and stepping up to the plate in yemen. despite their action, the houthi actually control more territory now than they did before the saudi response. our embassy is closed. our personnel have been

evacuated. and there's no hadi government to speak of. and al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, aqap, has taken advantage of the fighting and has capitalized on the deteriorating situation in yemen, and we have very little visibility into the movements or their actions. i'm concerned that the aqap, the al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, has gained ground in eastern yemen and has been left virtually unchecked to recruit and train. let's not forget it was aqap that was responsible for the paris attacks earlier this year or that it was al qaeda in the arabian peninsula that was responsible for overtaking a prison last month and releasing several hundreds of prisoners clg a senior operative of al

qaeda. aqap's leader is a follower of bin laden and like bin laden also seeks to strike western targets including right here in our homeland the united states. iran has reportedly dispatched a naval destroyer near yemen in a game of chicken over one of the most important shipping routes in the gulf of aden. this area is a gateway between europe and the middle east, and iran must not be allowed to escalate any tensions nor attempt to disrupt the shipping lanes. yet we continue to see the administration make the same mistakes it made in syria. and just like in syria today yemen is in utter chaos in large part due to iran's antagonism and meddling. but we must learn a lesson from

syria and engage in the yemeni crisis head on with a comprehensive strategy before it spirals further out of control. there will be no political solution in yemen based on the gcc initiative or restarting the national dialogue conference that collapsed in early 2014 without addressing the underlying issues. the houthi were reluctant participants in the national dialogue in yemen, but it was clear that they had no interest in ceding power over to a centralized government. as a result they withdrew from the national dialogue, it collapsed, and the houthi took control over sanaa and now other areas. so why would the administration think that the circumstances have changed that would allow for a reconciliation to occur? it is naive and dangerous to think a political situation is achievable as long as the houthi are unwilling to cede their power and as long as iran continues its support for these fighters just like it is naive and dangerous to believe that a political solution in syria is

achievable as long as assad remains in power. even more absurd is the fact that iran just this morning has allegedly proposed a peace plan for yemen. this is the same iran that continues to use its terrorism tentacles throughout the region to undermine u.s. interests and by supplying arms and fighters aim to further destabilize its neighboring countries. so today we hope to hear from the administration that we have a comprehensive plan on how to get to a political solution rather than just supporting a reconciliation process while also addressing the current gap in our intelligence and counterterror capabilities in yemen as well as the deteriorating humanitarian situation. because if we act in yemen in the same way that we have acted in syria, then we are likely going to see the same crisis follow in yemen.

a war with no end in sight. the rise of dangerous terror groups. a dire humanitarian crisis and iran's increased power grab in the region. and with that i will go to mr. connolly for perhaps one minute because when mr. deutch comes he will give his five minutes. mr. connolly is recognized. >> thank you, madam chairman. thank you for having the hearing. in listening to the recitation just now of what happened in yemen and what happened in syria, one would i guess infer or one is meant to infer that it's all the problem and result of policies pursued or not pursued by president obama and his administration. nothing could be further from the truth. the inherent instability in

yemen is not new, and it certainly is not unique to the administration currently in power. yemen is inherently unstable. it has multiple militia forces and jihadist forces at work. towns have been taken and retaken and transferred. terrorism and brutality have occurred. and we may very well -- there are movements to bifurcate the country as it once was. the instability in the region is not the fault or responsibility of any administration. our question really has to be how do we respond when there are no good options? how do we reduce harm? how do we limit our exposure in how do we try, however indirectly, to affect outcomes positively? i don't think throwing pot shots at this administration as if it were omnipotent on the world scene, especially in this region, is very helpful. thank you, madam chairman. >> thank you, mr. connolly. mr. chabot of ohio. >> thank you, madam chair, for holding this hearing.

i want to say at the outset that i've got an honor flight coming in shortly and i have somebody from bangladesh back here, the speaker of the house, that i have to meet with. so i'm not going to be able to stay for the testimony but i will have staff here and i will certainly read the testimony. i was chair of this committee a while back. during that time i went to yemen and i think -- mr. connolly's right. there have been problems there for years. but i would argue that they certainly have gotten worse under this administration and, you know, it was this administration that claimed that yemen was a success story, and clearly it has been anything but that. when we were on our way over there, there was a terrorist attack on a graduation at the

military barracks, and over 100 new soldiers were murdered by terrorists. it's been going on for a while. but the problems in yemen are just incredible. i think the thing that's particularly disturbing is the iranian involvement there and around the region. it's four or five capitals now in the region that are controlled by the iranians. so it's a very dangerous situation. i look forward to the testimony. even though i won't be here, i'll certainly review that testimony. and thank you for being here, mr. ambassador. >> thank you, mr. chabot, and good luck with that honor flight. it's always very emotional. and we will recognize mr. deutch after the one minutes with his consent. we will go to mr. higgins of new york. >> thank you, madam chair, for holding this important hearing. you know, another trouble spot in a region that has pervasive trouble. there are no good options here for the united states. but obviously, we have a great interest in trying to influence stabilization in that influence. so i'm very curious to hear the thoughts of our distinguished panelist today.

additionally it was announced the u.n. security council approved an arms embargo against the houthi. that resolution which prohibits the sale of weapons to three named houthi leaders, its former president and its son. i'm just kind of curious as to what if any impact that resolution will have relative to the dynamic that's going on in yemen right now. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you, sir. excellent question. mr. wilson of south carolina. >> thank you, madam chair. and thank you for your leadership on this issue. ambassador, i just can't imagine a more extraordinary time for you to be serving as the deputy assistant secretary for the bureau of near eastern affairs. and hey, i want you to succeed. but i am obviously very concerned about the yemeni evacuation, what this means for the security of the united states and our allies. i'm obviously concerned about libya, its dissolution, the murders in benghazi, with the rise of isil the failure to have a status of forces agreement

with iraq, which leads to the destabilization of iraq. the regime in iran, which has an ideology of death to america, death to israel. that's their plan. and as they're moving ahead with the nuclear capability, also building missiles, to include an icbm, which could only be interpreted as a threat to the american people and american families. and then finally, of course, i'm very concerned about chaos and civil war in syria. the purported red line of the president which simply did not have any life and credibility. but i still want you to succeed. so i look forward to working with chairwoman ileana ros-lehtinen for your success. thank you. >> thank you, mr. wilson. mr. cicilline of rhode island. >> i think it's fair to say the deterioration of the situation in yemen took many people in washington by surprise. for many years it was held up as an example of counterterrorism cooperation.

and it looked as if a political agreement might be achieved in the aftermath of the arab spring. the united states poured approximately $9.50 million in foreign aid to yemen since the transition in 2011 to support counterterrorism, political reconciliation, the economy, and humanitarian aid. now we face a vastly different landscape and have to revise our assumptions and expectations. furthermore, we risk being drawn deeply into another iranian-backed armed conflict in the middle east. i'd particularly like to hear from the witness, hear from you, mr. ambassador, how we might have better detected the oncoming houthi rebellion and what if anything could have been done to prevent it. what the u.s. role is and should be in the conflict between the parties in yemen and how we're cooperating with regional partners and what the prospects are for a solution to this conflict. i'm also very concerned about the plight of civilians.

one of the poorest countries in the world. fighting has fractured an already suffering economy. i'd like to hear from you what we're doing to alleviate the humanitarian situation. i look forward to your testimony. i yield back. >> excellent questions. thank you. dr. yoho does not need to address the panel now. so we'll go to miss meng of new york. >> thank you, chair and ranking member, for assembling this hearing and our distinguished ambassador for joining us here today. on january 21st a fragile power sharing deal between democratically elected president hadi and the houthi rebel group in yemen fell apart, and the houthi began seizing control of large portions of yemen. these actions were troubling because of the houthi' illegal usurpation of power and their immediate dissolving of the yemeni parliament. the houthi have very close ties to iran, which is supporting their aggression and seeking to

expand its own sphere of influence in the middle east. on march 26th saudi arabia and more than ten arab partners began air strikes to weaken the houthi stronghold and reinstate president hadi to the presidency. while i'm supportive of arab solidarity and intervention here, i'm deeply concerned about the possibility of a large humanitarian crisis in yemen and look forward to delving into these issues this afternoon. i yield back. >> thank you, miss meng. miss frankel of florida. >> thank you, madam chair. mr. ambassador, thank you for being here. well, we've heard some of our colleagues here describe iran's support for the houthi forces as another iranian takeover in the region. and so i'm interested in your assessment of that. and so i'm interested in your assessment of that. given that the houthi have ruled northern yemen for a millennium and have been seeking greater recourse now for a decade with strong ties to the former

regime. i hope you can put iran's involvement in yemen in this broader context, or if you would. and just would add to the question to what extent is iran actually controlling events in yemen. is it more than funding, supplies, weapons, or are there iranian forces actually directing action in the country as we've seen in syria and iraq? i yield back. >> thank you, miss frankel. and we were all the warm-up group for our lead guy, mr. ted deutch of florida. >> thank you, madam chairman, for calling today's hearing and allowing us to address the recent troubling events in yemen. deputy assistant secretary feierstein, welcome back.

i understand you just returned from the gulf. we look forward to hearing the administration's assessment of the conflict, its impact on broader regional geopolitics and what role we should play going forward. following the deposition of yemen's long-time autocratic ruler saleh in 2011 the u.s. supported an inclusive transition process. we had national dialogue aimed at rebuilding the country's political and governmental institutions and bridging gaps between groups that have had a long history of conflict. yemen's first newly elected leader, president hadi, made clear his intentions to cooperate closely with the united states. hadi's government remained a partner in counterterrorism cooperation and operations. yemen, the poorest country on the peninsula, needed support from the international community. the united states has long viewed yemen as a safe haven for al qaeda terrorists, and there's alarming potential for recruitment by terrorist groups given the dire economic conditions that they faced. in fact, u.s. department of homeland security considers al qaeda in the arabian peninsula the affiliate most likely -- the al qaeda affiliate most likely to attempt transnational attacks against the united states. while the national dialogue was initially viewed as successful, the process concluded in 2014 with several key reforms still not completed, including the

drafting of a new constitution. the hadi government had continued to face deep opposition from yemen's northern tribes, mainly the shiite iranian backed tuthi rebels in the past year. the houthi in coordination with tribes and military units still loyal to saleh began increasing their territorial control, eventually moving in to sanaa. saleh had long been thought to use his existing relationship to undermine the hadi government. the houthi are well trained, well funded, and experienced fighters, having fought the yemeni government and saudi arabia in 2009. now, much has been written by experts and analysts about how deep iran's connection to the houthi go. some argue it's overblown and that while the houthi welcome iranian support they are not an iranian proxy in the same way as hezbollah. others suggest the united states has not in the past recognized how deep the level of support provided by iran is or what iran's real motives are in supporting the houthi. perhaps the fullest extent of iran's involvement remains

unknown. but as secretary kerry said last week, there are obviously supplies that have been coming from iran, he said. there are a number of flights every single week that have been flying in. we trace those flights and we know this, we are well aware of the support that iran has been giving to yemen and iran needs to recognize that the united states is not going to stand by while the region is destabilized or while people engage in overt warfare across lines, international boundaries of other countries. the most troubling question i think to examine today is whether the conflict in yemen has now become a symptom of the larger power struggle in the gulf. the saudi-led military intervention is now in its third week. the u.s. has been providing resources and support to our regional partners engaged on the ground. madam chairman, i would point out that this is yet another

example of why we must act in the closest of cooperation with our gulf friends to counter all of iran's destabilizing activities in the region. and i was pleased to see reports this morning indicating the united states has stepped up our support inspecting ships bound for yemen in search of arms. similarly today's 14-0 vote by the security counsel toll impose an arms embargo on the houthi is a welcome step and a need show of unity from the international community. iran is in turn responding, sending a flotilla to the gulf of aden. and last week on social media iran's supreme leader personally attacked saudi arabia and its defense minister tweeting that inexperienced youths have taken over the affairs of the state and are replacing dignity with barbarity. we're asked by our constituents why the u.s. should be involved in the middle east. they tell us years ever conflict won't be solid by u.s. intervention. but yes, ma'am zen a clear example of what is our international interest. we cannot allow groups like al qaeda in the arabian peninsula which tried to tact united states in 2009, 2011, and 2012 to take advantage of chaos in yemen. we need a yemeni government that is going to be a partner in our

counterterrorism and regional security efforts. and finally, the people of yemen have suffered -- have long suffered under dire economic conditions. the population has more than quadrupled in the past 30 years. conflict is only making the humanitarian situation worse. saudi arabia is delivering medical and humanitarian supplies but it is necessary for the international community to continue to support the people of yemen. we have seen all too well how quickly humanitarian crises can slip from the front pages of our papers. ambassador feierstein, thank you again for being here. given that u.s. personnel has been evacuated we look to you to tell us where u.s. policy toward yemen currently stands. will we continue to see increased level of involvement in the saudi-led intervention? how can the two u.n. security council resolutions pertaining to saleh be enforced? and can there ultimately be a military solution to yemen's internal crisis? we look forward to your responses. appreciate your being here. and i yield back, madam. >> thank you very much, mr.

deutch. excellent statement. and we're so pleased to welcome ambassador gerald feierstein, who is the principal deputy assistant secretary of the bureau of near eastern affairs. previously he served as our ambassador to yes, madame from 2010 to 2013. so he knows this area very well. he has served in several different postings throughout the middle east including as deputy chief of missions in islamabad and deputy consul general in jerusalem. thank you for your service, mr. ambassador. we look forward to your testimony. and may i point out your lovely fiance sitting behind you. welcome. does she know the hours you that put in every day at your job? she might want to reconsider. mr. ambassador, your honor. >> thank you so much, madam chairman. madam chairman, ranking member deutch, members of the subcommittee, i greatly appreciate this opportunity to come before you today to review recent developments in yemen and the efforts that the united

states is undertaking to support the government of yemen under president abdul rabbeh mansour hadi and the saudi-led coalition decisive storm that is aimed at restoring the legitimate government and restarting the negotiations to find peaceful political solutions to yemen's internal conflict. during the week of april 4th to 11th i traveled with deputy secretary of state anthony blinken to saudi arabia at the united arab emirates and oman. as part of our consultations we met with president hadi and members of his team, the saudi ministers of foreign affairs, defense and interior. the emirati minister of foreign affairs as well as other senior emirati officials in the ministries of foreign officials and defense and the omani minister of state for foreign affairs and his deputy. in all of these engagements we found a broad degree of consistency and their determination to bring "operation decisive storm" to a rapid and successful conclusion, to establish that no party to the internal conflict in yemen will be able to achieve its

objectives through violence and coercion and to set the framework for a return to negotiations leading to a clear verifiable commitment on the part of all parties to the conflict to implement agreements and complete the political transition on the basis of the gcc initiative, the conclusions of the national dialogue conference and applicable u.n. security council resolutions. there was also a broad agreement among the yemeni leadership and yemen's neighbors that yemen should not be allowed to become a locus for foreign intervention that destabilizes yemen or threatens the security and stability of yemen's neighbors in the region at large. madam chairman, as you know, the conflict in yemen is enormously complicated and has roots that have largely parochial and locally focused. yemen, the poorest country in the arab world, with a long history of weak central governance, has for many years struggled to meet the needs of its diverse constituencies and address their grievances. those failures of governance led to the fall of the previous regime in 2011.

reflecting significant engagement by the united states and the international community, the gcc initiative was put in place to help yemen transition to a new, more inclusive government that would be responsive to the needs and aspirations of all of yemen's communities. the tragedy of the current situation is the political process that the yemenis established in 2011 was achieving success and we and they had reason to believe that it would lead to a more open, democratic, and prosperous nation that was the goal of the yemeni people. regrettably that transition has been sidetracked by the houthi movement, aided and abetted by ali abdullah saleh and his allies, who decided they would seek to achieve by force what they had been unable to accomplish at the negotiating table. we hope it's only a temporary delay. we remain deeply concerned about iranian support for the houthis' military ambitions, but to best of our understanding the houthi are not controlled directly by iran. however, we have seen in recent years growth and expansion in iranian engagement with the houthi. we believe that iran sees opportunities with the houthi to expand its influence in yemen and threaten saudi and gulf arab interests. iran provides financial support,

weapons, training and intelligence to the houthi. in the weeks and months since the houthi entered sanaa and forced the legitimate government first to resign and ultimately flee from the capital we have seen a significant expansion of iranian involvement in yemen's domestic affairs. we're also particularly concerned about the ongoing destabilizing role played by former president saleh, who since his removal from power in 2011 has actively plotted to undermine president hadi and the political process. despite sanctions and condemnation of his actions saleh continues to be one of the primary sources of the chaos in yemen. we have been working with our gulf partners in the international community to isolate him and prevent a continuation of his efforts to undermine the peaceful transition. success in that effort will go a long way to helping yemen return to a credible political transition process. finally the destabilizing actions of the houthi and their allies have created conditions that are beneficial to aqap. the deterioration of the political situation in yemen has provided new openings for aqap

to regain the ground that it's lost in recent years owing to the efforts of the u.s. and yemeni governments to combat it. only through a negotiated resolution of the ongoing political conflict can we resume cooperation with the government of yemen to deter, defeat, and ultimately to eliminate the aqap threat to yemen, the united states, and our friends and partners around the world. thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you this afternoon. i look forward to answering any questions you may have about the situation in yemen and our policy responses. >> thank you so much, mr. ambassador. and you're certainly an expert in this area. and i note it's important not to

minimize iran's role in yemen nor the sectarian nature of this conflict, as i believe the administration seems determined to do. the administration has so far provided only limited logistical support to the saudi-led coalition. we waited to give them the intelligence that they needed, for example, to know exactly where to hit. and the administration is hoping

for a political solution without also having our own comprehensive strategy in the region. so we are essentially outsourcing our yemeni policy to the jcc and iran -- gcc and iran, the gulf countries. are we in conversations with iran about the situation in yemen or with houthi rebels, and what is our plan if the houthi refuse to accept a political resolution? >> madam chairman, we believe the iranians are well aware of our views and our positions on the situation in yemen. we have been very clear in articulating that. as far as the houthi are concerned, we have expressed an interest in establishing a dialogue with them, going all the way back to frankly the time that i was still in sanaa. the houthi up until now have

declined the opportunity to engage with us directly. nevertheless, we have been able to communicate with them, to pass messages to them through various intermediaries, and again i believe that the houthi are fully aware of our views and the positions we've taken on their issues going all the way back to the early years of the 21st century. >> thank you, sir. you testified that current conditions in yemen are beneficial to al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and that isil is an emerging presence in yemen. how large of a presence does isil have in yemen? what kind of pressure are we applying against them? and now that our embassy is closed all of our personnel have been evacuated, our intelligence capabilities have been severely restricted, what kind of intelligence can we collect without a presence in country, and what insight do we have into the various factions?

>> it's a very good question. in terms of isil it's extremely difficult for us to have a clear picture of the extent to which they are a factor there. as you know, they claim credit for several attacks on mosques earlier this year. this was the first time isil as an entity emerged in yemen. we would still consider aqap to be by far the larger and more significant threat. we have heard some yemenis and others speculate that what we're seeing is the return perhaps of some yemeni fighters who were in syria or iraq who've come back to yemen and are now operating as isil, but i think that that is something we couldn't confirm at this point. in terms of the complications in our ability to have a clear picture, there's no doubt that the fact that we're not present in yemen at this moment and that we aren't able to maintain the

level of communication and dialogue and the daily interactions we were able to have with yemeni counterparts while we were there and while president hadi's government was in place certainly is an obstacle to our ability to continue to conduct operations. >> thank you, sir. now, state and d.o.d. have provided a variety of capabilities to yemeni security forces including some sensitive equipment such as nightvision goggles. with the closure of our embassy and with the relocation of special operation forces from yemen it's much more difficult to monitor the use of such equipment. what do we know in the u.s. government about the current

status of the equipment that was previously provided to yemen? have they fallen into the hands of houthi, al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, or isil? >> we haven't seen any direct evidence that those items of equipment we've provided in the past have been taken by the houthi or by other elements. there's been some speculation in the press, but we couldn't confirm that. and we don't have any independent information. >> thank you. and we've seen reports that coalition forces have amassed along the saudi-yemeni border and that some saudi forces are already on the ground in yemen. do you expect to see gcc coalition ground forces in yemen? and what would egypt's role be in such an effort? what role would the united

states play in such a scenario? >> based on the discussions that we had with our counterparts in riyadh and in abu dhabi last week, i think that at this point in time what we understand is that they don't have any current plans to actually have a ground presence inside of yemen. they are, as you said, moving forces to the border. we believe that's largely for defensive purposes. and they are clear that this is something they would consider if they see the requirement. but right now we haven't seen anything. as for the egyptian role, those discussions are on and there have not been any commitments that we're aware of on the part of egypt to participate in any kind of ground activity. >> thank you. and lastly, you testified that the humanitarian situation was

already dire in yemen before this crisis and that malnutrition, bad sanitation, no access to water, internal displacements, they're all rising internal concerns. what is the u.s. doing to work with saudi and the rest of the gulf council nations to prioritize the transportation of water, essential food and fuel, humanitarian supplies like medicine into the country via air and sea ports? >> one of the fundamental items in deputy secretary blinken's agenda with our partners in riyadh and in abu dhabi was precisely to encourage them, to urge them to ensure that humanitarian access to yemen was possible. i think that the latest information that we have is that the picture has improved

somewhat. it remains very serious. nearly half of the population in yemen right now based on the estimates that we've seen is food deprived. so this is a very serious situation. we're doing a better job, i think, in getting some of the humanitarian supplies, not only food but also medicines and other essential humanitarian goods, to yemen. the internal distribution is extremely difficult because of the various military activities that are going on around the country so the movement has become complicated. and probably the most significant concern that we have right now is the availability of fuel which is essential not only for the movement of goods and

people but also is essential in order to provide water and also bread because the bakery is run on propane gas. without propane, they can't bake their bread. so this is having ripple effects throughout the economy and making the humanitarian situation that much more serious. >> thank you again for your service, sir. mr. deutsch of florida, the ranking member is recognized. >> thank you, madam chairman. mr. ambassador, you mentioned you just got back from the region and you don't think -- you don't think the saudis see this campaign as an open-ended one. do they think there's a military solution? you had said that they don't have plans to launch a ground war. do you envision the situation in which saudi or coalition ground troops would go in? >> under the current set of

circumstances, no. they are looking at various scenarios. but they've been very clear with us that that's not where they want to go. and the history in yemen is not favorable for foreign ground forces. and i think that the saudis are well aware of that. i do believe and based on the conversations that we have, the saudis do not believe that there's a military solution to this conflict. they understand as we do that ultimately the only solution is to bring the parties back to the negotiating table and their intent is to try to demonstrate through their current military activities that a military solution on the part of the houthi or ali abdullah saleh is not achievable and therefore they need to return to negotiations. >> there was -- there were two -- so far anyway, two stories with respect to iran in yemen

that have arisen today. one reports that iran may be trying to send surface-to-air missiles to the houthi and that the united states is stepping up our inspections of ships bound for yemen. first on that one, can we expect to see greater u.s. involvement as the conflict drags on? >> i think that at this particular moment our intent is trying to support the saudi coalition and our partners. and so what we're doing is aimed at empowering, facilitating and enhancing their capacity to take on this mission. and in the situation of the shipping, we will be taking very careful look at and examining very closely efforts to violate the embargo. of course, we had the arms embargo passed today by the u.n.

security council. but we also have longstanding arms embargo on iran and any effort on the part of the iranians to export weapons would be a violation of other u.n. security council resolutions. and we would be looking at ways to ensure that embargo is enforced. >> and iran allegedly released some draft of the peace plan today. can you comment on that? >> well, i think the comment that we have on that is it's ironic that the iranians have put forward a peace plan that encompasses the four points that we were actually trying to implement when the houthi with iranian encouragement blocked the negotiations and created the humanitarian crisis that we're confronting today. and so i think from our perspective, if the iranians are serious about their peace plan, in the first instance they

should stop sending weapons to the houthi and they should also give their advice to the houthi that they should be returning to the peace talks and the negotiating table. >> that would be sound advice. mr. ambassador, has this become a -- or does it risk becoming a proxy war for regional influence between the saudis and the iranians? >> i think from our perspective, i would say that yemen is a unique situation for the saudis. that this is on their border. it represents a threat in a way that no other situation would represent. and while, of course, there is concern in the gulf and we heard from our partners in the gulf about the situation in syria and iraq and also the concerns about

developments in lebanon and elsewhere in the region, i think our sense is that the perception of the situation in yemen is different and more threatening. yemen is different and more threatening. >> and again, my last question is, what do we make of the iranian flutella that moved in? >> we're tracking it. the iranians claimed they're only there as part of the larger international effort to prevent privacy in the red sea. we'll be keeping a careful eye on it. we also have a significant forces in the area and will be tracking. >> thank you. >> i just want the help. they misunderstood. thank you. >> thank you secretary. i appreciate that you and i have

something in common in that i have two sons who served in iraq. one is a physician, another is field artillery. i know that you've had a son serve there. then with your background, what a distinguished background. as i stated from the beginning, i'm just so hopeful for your success. because i believe, sadly, that as safe havens are created throughout that region, and into central asia and north africa that the american people are at risk. so we want you to succeed. with that in mind your referenced it a minute ago, and that is what impact you believe the administration's nuclear negotiations with the regime in tehran have had with the support of the iranian government to be provided to the houthis. >> thank you very much congressman wilson, for your kind words. in terms of the relationship or

any correlation between the nuclear talks and the situation in yemen or more broadly, in the region, i think that our perspective is that what we have achieved by establishing the framework for an agreement that, of course, we hope is completed by the end of june that this is something that will contribute to regional security and stability. and that, certainly, one of the things that we discussed with our friends in the region and i think that president obama when he meets with the gcc leaders in summit in a few weeks, will also make clear that despite the negotiations on the nuclear account, and despite what we hope is an agreement to block

any further iranian effort to acquire a nuclear weapon nevertheless, the other concerns that we have about iranian activities including in areas like yemen, have not changed. in that we will continue to pursue aggressively a program of confronting and challenging any iranian efforts to destabilize the region. >> and i see, actually a direct relationship of the negotiations and what's going on in yemen. that is untruthfulness. the iranian regime has indicated that they have no presence no support, no interest whatsoever. then as correctly pointed out, an armada of ships appear off the coast. with proven untruthfulness, i just can't imagine that we would be placing faith in regard to their denial of developing a

nuclear capability, while they're building a missile system. so do you see the relationship of untruthfulness? >> well, i think that certainly iranian behavior merits very close observation, and i done think that it's the intent of the administration to place any faith whatsoever in what the iranians say. the important thing is to establish a very tight system of verification that would enable us to see if, in fact, the iranians are cheating or otherwise violating the terms of any agreement that we might reach. so i don't think there's any trust or faith involved in this. >> well i appreciate your concern there. what impact do you believe that depletion of yemen's oil reserves as early as 2017 will have on the houthi relationship

with other nations in the region? >> well, i think more prod lybroadly, of course, and one of the issues we as the united states were working on, as well as with our national partners, was the effort to try to provide yemen with a foundation for economic development. we recognized that it's the failure of the government to provide for its people. the failure to provide any kind of economic horizon or any optimism for the future as feeding into these issues. not only with the houthis but with aqap and other violent extremist organizations. so one of the things, as we go forward, not only to try to resolve some of the outstanding political issues, but also to work on these economic issues and to provide for our future, having spent three years in yemen, i can say that i was

always optimistic, that given an opportunity, yemen could actually develop and provide for its people economically. unfortunately, the political situation, security situations have undermined their ability and our ability to really build that kind of a future. >> well i appreciate your service there. i know it must be very distressing to you to see the current condition, but your service means a lot to the american people. thank you. i yield back. >> thank you, mr. wilson. >> thank you to your family for the valuable contribution of keeping our homeland safe. thank you. mr. cicilline. >> thank you, madame chairman. thank you, mr. ambassador. first, as much as you can share in an open setting, would you speak to how the current conflict has impacted our counterterrorism efforts within yemen? you mentioned in your opening

marks that ss that aqap is taking advantage of this opportunity. my question is do we have in place alternative counterterrorism plan that will continue to disrupt aqap and isis operations? what's the relationship of these three groups on the ground? are they coordinating? during this period of unrest, how are we protesting american security interests? >> it's a challenge. certainly in the efforts that we've been making over the past several years, with the support of president hadi and his government a lot of our cooperation, or a lot of our effort was dependent on the cooperation that we were receiving from the yemenis. that really enabled and expanded our ability to act effectively against a violent extremist

organization. that, of course, both because we're not physically present in yemen right now, and because of the overall collapse of the government of yemen, that kind of cooperation is no longer viable. at least for the moment. what we're trying to do, of course, is that to the extent possible, we will continue to use our own independent means to gather intelligence and try to understand what's happening in yemen. but it is not as effective or efficient as it would otherwise there. so our effort has really you know, as part of a return to a political negotiation, and hopefully the restoration of a legitimate government in sanaa, to be able to resume the cop ration we -- cooperation we had earlier on. in terms of the interactions of

the various extremist organizations, very difficult to see. we really don't have much of an understanding of isil or what their relationships are. who they are. it's possible, of course, that there's simply people using that name because they believe it adds a certain amount of voracity to what they're trying to do. in the absence, again, of any kind of presence on the ground ability to really collect intelligence, it's difficult to say. >> mr. ambassador in light of the current situation in yemen are there any changes that need to be made to the administration's fy 16 request for yemen, to reflect these realities or to reflect an adjustment in the policy goals for yemen? >> it's something that we're looking at. i think that we will adjust. obviously, our hope would be that if we can get the situation

stabilized and get the political process going again, that we would be able to return and we would be able to continue implementing the kinds of programs that we were trying to achieve, that are aimed at economic growth and development, as well as supporting democratic governance and the opportunity to try to build solid political foundations for this society. at this particular moment we can't do that, but it's hard to predict where we might be in six months or nine months from now. >> thank you. mr. amambassador the united nations reports that yemen relies on import for 90% of its staple food. we can surmise as a result of the conflict there will be a disruption in that. obviously, the world food program reports that 10 million people, 42.5% of the population, were already unable to meet their basic food needs. so would you speak a little bit

about what we're doing, what the kingdom of saudi arabia is doing, to ensure that food is getting to the right places, that the transportation is being permitted, that medicine is getting in? also, are we tracking it? are we -- do we have oversight to be sure it's actually getting to the people who need it? because this has all the makings of a catastrophic humanitarian crisis. >> yes, sir. again, i think, one, of course the united states is and has been traditionally the largest donor to world food program, unicef, other international organizations that are providing humanitarian relief to the yemeni people. will continue to do that. there has not been any interruption in our support for humanitarian assistance. secretary secretary blinken had at the top of his agenda, urging our

partners in the gulf to ensure they made accommodations to allow for humanitarian relief supplyies to reach yemen. our understanding from what we're seeing over the last several days is, in fact, the flow of humanitarian goods into yemen has improved. two ships carrying wheat have arrived at yemeni ports. icrc and unicef have been able to get relief supplies in by both ship and plane over the last several days. so we are seeing improvements on that side. but the internal dis bugstribution, as you pointed out remains problematic. understand, for example, truck drivers are very concerned, unwilling to move because of the

fighting in the country. there are fuel shortages that complicate that. so internally, we're still seeing difficulties getting the necessary supplies to the right places. it is something that we're discussing with our partners in the humanitarian community, and we'll see if we can't improve it. >> thank you. i yield back madame chairman. >> thank you so much, mr. cicilline. mr. yoho. >> is it feierstein or feierstein? >> i say feierstein, but my parents say feierstein. >> good, i'm satisfying both of you. prior to the fall of the houthi government, did we know it was coming, or was this out of the blue? >> the situation with the houthis has been complicated for a long period of time. we've been in a situation when

we had the initial uprising, the political uprising in 2011 and '12, the houthis were part of the opposition to the saleh regime. there was a desire on the part of all of the political groups in yemen to see if they couldn't bring them into the political process. i think there was a broad understanding that the houthis had legitimate concerns and legitimate grievances about the way they've been treated over the years. there was a hope that they could be accommodated through the negotiations and through the implementation of the gcc initiative, in a way to make sure a part of the larger political fabric. and that was really the main effort for a long period of time. unfortunately, low-level conflict continued throughout that period. between the houthis and some of the other elements. some of the conservative sunni

elements of the society. that flared up last summer in an area north, in the northern part of the country near the traditional houthi area. >> let me interject in here. what you're saying i think is what i'm hearing is the houthis didn't feel like they were involved sufficiently in the hadi government? they didn't have enough input is that -- >> they weren't technically part of the hadi government. they didn't have seats to the hadi government. they were part of the larger political process. they were participants in the national conference. >> will the vice president's appointment will enough as far as what they're looking for as far as representation? and does the appointment of mr. baja as vice president does it

weaken president hadi's effectiveness if he were to go back into power? >> the appointment of baja as prime minister last september was one of the elements that resolved the first confrontation with the houthis last september when they signed an agreement. and they approved the appointment of baja as the prime minister. yesterday or the day before yesterday, when he was named as the vice president they objected. not because they have any concern about him. he is, i think somebody who is universally respected inside of yemen. but because they objected to the process that led to his appointment. but we do think that he is someone who is acceptable to all of the elements of society. we don't think that it would undermine the legitimacy of

president hadi's government. in fact it accomplishes something that president hadi had been encouraged to do for a long period of time. >> do you see him with the resolution of this conflict, do you see president hadi coming back and running that country? >> i think both the united states and more broadly the international community see that the legitimacy -- >> he's a legitimate president? >> what exactly the format might be that would bring him back to sanaa is negotiateble. if there was another format acceptable to the yemenis, it would be acceptable to us. >> the iranian influence with the houthis has been there a long time. have you seen their interference in this conflict more prevalence than it has been in the past? >> yes. >> you've seen a step up? >> yes. >> do you have any feeling that there is an increase of that activity due to the iranian

nuclear negotiations that we're going through? have they been emboldened more? >> we believe that there are a number of factors that are feeding into iran's sense that it is -- that it has the upper hand. because of its engagement elsewhere in the region. because of the weakness or the disarray within the sunni community. the iranians may be emboldened. i think our sense is that the iranian nuclear negotiations would not be a factor. >> i find it interesting that the iranians have stepped up their involvement and have taken over four capitals. we see an influence of them in venezuela. all this time, they've been under sanctions and supposedly struggling internally but we see more influence. in fact, they purchased that missile defense system from russia for $800 million. it doesn't look like a country

that's in financial constraints or something difficulthaving difficulties making this presence. i think for them to step forward and show this leadership in that region, it's not the leader shut up i-- leadership i want to see. i think the relationship with saudi arabia would be stronger. what are your thoughts on that? >> certainly i think that what we'd like to do is see, you know. we have the nuclear agreement now. i think our view is that potentially, that could contribute to regional security and stability. certainly, the support that we're providing to saudi arabia and the saudi coalition and operation decisive storm is an important element and opportunity for us to demonstrate to our friends in the region that, despite the nuclear negotiations and the framework agreement, our commitment to their security and stability is not affected. and that we will continue to

confront and challenge iranian activity where we see it playing a negative tiffrole in the region. >> ambassador feierstein, i appreciate your time. i yield back. >> thank you. >> i thought when the rising of civilian casualties increased we need a perspective. >> it varies. i do believe that broadly on the arab street i think that there's a great deal of support for what the coalition is trying to accomplish. in a sense that it's appropriate for the saudis to take a leadership position in confronting iranian malign intent. within yemen of course the situation is a little bit

different. the concerns about some of the civilian casualties as obviously and understandably are much higher, we as one of the elements of our support, and one of the things we're trying to accomplish in providing support to the international coalition is precisely to help them avoid those kinds of civilian casualties and to ensure that when they are going after a particular target that they're doing everything possible to make sure that there's no collateral damage. >> my last question. it appears turkey and pakistan backed off their initial support for this operation. can you speak about that, and do you foresee this newfound arab coalition working effectively together beyond yemen?

>> i think for turkey and for pakistan, the issue is more complicated. i can speak a little bit more familiarly with the situation in pakistan than in turkey. in pakistan, you have, of course, a long border with iran. an important relationship between pakistan and iran. as well as an important and long-standing relationship with saudi arabia. so for the pakistanis, this was probably a situation where they didn't see frankly, that there was a good way forward for them to participate. they've been very clear in saying that they would be absolutely committed to supporting saudi arabia if there were any kind of threat to saudi arabia specifically. but in the case of yemen little bit more complicated for them.

and probably something that politically, inside of pakistan, would have been extremely difficult. >> thank you very much, ms. meng. mr. desantis my wonderful colleague from florida. >> thank you, madame chairman. i think this is an important topic, and i'll get to this. we just got the news over the wire that the president is planning on removing cuba from the list of state sponsors of terrorism. now, this is something that is, although outraygeous for us, is something we expected. it was baked in the cake. it's something really troubling. cuba hasn't done anything. they haven't done anything on behalf of their people. they're arresting more people since we had this change. they have harbored somebody on the fbi's list of most wanted terrorists. nothing is being done. this is just a pure,

unadulterated concession, with absolutely no basis or grounding in facts. i was happy to lead a special order on the floor last night with some of the post 9/11 veterans who were in congress. the two countries we seem to have better relationships now, iran and cuba. the question is, what have we received in return for that? mostly, it's us giving concessions to these countries. i think a foreign policy based on the idea that we're going to be dancing with dictators is not a foreign policy that is going to succeed. i think it's really alienating us from a lot of our allies and, tragically i think is leaving people who are fighting for freedom in places like cuba, completely in the lurch. this is not going to be the last we talk about this, i know. but it's really, really

disappointing. sorry about that, ambassador. i know that's not your cup of tea, but it's something we work on on this committee. i know that the chairwoman especially has done it for a long time. did the state department approve president obama's remarks in september when he announced the campaign against isis, and he cited yemen as a success? >> i'm not entirely sure. >> is it -- i know there was a lot of discussion back when bush was president about approving the wmd passages. is it standard that that goes through state when the president makes a major speech about foreign policy, or is it just kind of state's got to respond to what the white house said? i'm not even clear how the process normally works. >> i think, as a matter of principle, it's up to the president to decide how he wants to prepare his speeches. >> once the statement was made

and yemen was cited as an example of success, were there concerns in the state department that were raised about that given the actual reality on the ground in yemen at the time? >> >>. >> i would say that the record of our activities in yemen from 2011/2011 until quite recently, in terms of the effectiveness of our unilateral actions against aqap, as well as the cooperation and the ability of the united states to partner effectively with counterparts inside of yemen was positive. as a result of what we were able

to accomplish together we saw a number of positive developments. in terms of taking some of the leadership elements out of aqap, off the table, and also forcing aqap to change its strategy when the political crisis came in yemen in 2011, aqap was able to take advantage of that and increase its territorial control. to the extent they were declaring areas of the country to be an islamic caliphate, not unlike what we see with isil in iraq and syria these days. because of our cooperation, primarily our cooperation with yemeni security forces we were able to defeat that at a significant loss of life for aqap. as a result of that, they

changed their tactics. they went pack to being a more traditionalter rust terrorist organization. they were able to attack locations inside of sanaa and elsewhere. but the fact of the matter is we were achieving progress in our ability to pressure them and to keep them on the defensive, as opposed to giving them lots of time. remember in 2009, in 2010, we saw aqap mount a fairly serious effort, the underwear bomber and then also the cassette tape effort, to attack the united states. after 2010 they were not able to do that. despite the fact that their intent was still as clear and as strong as it was before. and so while aqap was by no means defeated and continued to

be a major threat to security here in the united states, as well as in yemen and elsewhere around the world nevertheless, i think that it was legitimate to say that we had achieved some success in the fight against aqap. unfortunately, what we're seeing now, because of the change in the situation again inside of yemen, is that we're losing some of the gains that we were able to make during that period of 2012 to 2014. and that's why it's so important that we have the ability to get the political negotiations started again so that we can reestablish legitimate government inside of sana thata that will cooperate with us in the fight against violent extremist organizations. >> great. my time is exexpired. i appreciate that, and i yield

back. >> thank you, mr. desantis. i look forward to watching the video of your remarks along with the other vets last night. congratulations. i wanted to ask an additional question so the members can as well. because of its geographic location yemen is so close just a little short boat ride away from africa, for example. very unstable. we've got -- do you worry about the -- where the movement takes place, that the houthi rebels isil, whatever faction of terrorist organization, could very well move their troops a little boat ride away and be in yet, another area where they can control that land and destabilize an already troubled region? >> we certainly worried a lot

about linkages between, particularly, the aqap in yemen and shabab in somalia. we knew, for example, that shabab was sending some of their people across to yemen to receive training. so as you say quite correctly, the distances are very short. we're talking about from yemen maybe 20 miles by sea. it's very close by. it is something that would be of concern to us. again, as part of our efforts against both aqap and shabab it was something that we were trying to monitor and defeat aggressively. >> well, i do worry about it because -- and we have a lot of american personnel embassies,

consulates. we have a presence throughout that region. so that is a worrisome future development, perhaps. thank you, mr. ambassador. mr. deutch. >> with the coalition focused as it is on the houthis, if and since we've lost at least for now our counterterrorism partner in the yemeni government and military, is there -- what pressure is there to the extent there's any on al qaeda and isis as well? >> we, of course, to the extent that we can it's more limited now, but to the extent that we can, we will continue to engage aqap unilaterally in order to try to disrupt or defeat any threats against us. when secretary blinken was in the region, it was also an issue

that we raised with the saudis in particular. and urged them also, as part of their effort to go after aqap targets, as well as other targets, so that we can continue the pressure. >> and can you tell us how that was received? >> they agree of course because aqap is a direct threat to their security, too. >> and have we seen that happen? >> i can't say for certain whether, a, we've given them any aqap targets to go after or whether they've been effective at servicing those. >> i appreciate it. >> thank you so much. dr. yoho. >> thank you, madame chair. just a follow up question. with the administration coming out and saying that it's a success over there, back in september, and touting that as of march 24th or 25th i have

here in an article how can we be that far off? i know you explained the counterterrorism portion. yet, to have a country taken over while we're sitting there, working with them, and this happens? i feel it just happened overnight, the way our embassy got run out of town. says, you have to leave. your marines cannot take their weapons with them. i don't understand how that happens or how we can be that disconnected. what are your thoughts on that? is it just denial, or is it -- i don't know what it is. i'm confused. before you answer it says it's counterintuitive claim puzzles national security experts and enrages -- it says republicans -- but i'm sure a lot of people. i'm just baffled. >> you know it was very frustrating. we, again, i think that if you go back to where we were a year ago, the successful conclusion of the national dialogue

conference, which was really the last major hurdle in completion of the gcc initiative, houthis participate in that, the constitutional drafting exercise which was completed successfully, and so we were in the process of moving through all of the requirements of the gcc initiative that would allow us to complete successfully the political transition. i think there were a combination of things. one, that there was a view on the part of the houthis that they were not getting everything that they wanted. they were provoked in our view by saleh, who never stopped plotting from the first day he signed the agreement on the gcc initiative. he never tried to stop blocking the political transition.

there was, to be frank, a weakness in the government. an inability on the part of the government to really build the kind of alliances and coalition that would allow them to sustain popular support and bring this to a successful conclusion. i think that all through this period there was a sense that we were moving forward and that we believe that we could succeed in implementing this peaceful transition. yet, we always knew that on the margins, there were threats and there were risks. unfortunately, we got to a point where the houthis and saleh we personal view is they recognized they reached the last possible moment they could obstruct the peaceful political transition.

it was bad for them because they wouldn't get everything they wanted. so they saw the time was running out for them and they decided to act. unfortunately, the government was unable to stop them. >> i appreciate it. it concerns me extremely, a lot that we're calling this a success, and we missed the mark way past the mark. if we're missing this what else are we missing in our foreign policies? can i ask one other thing? we have invested $900 million since 2011 roughly. it doesn't seem like we've gotten the bang for our buck in our foreign policy. in your opinion, how would you direct foreign policy in a country like yemen to where we get the results we want? >> it's a good question. what i would say is that in a place like yemen, we have to recognize what the limitations are in those societies.

and accept the fact that if we're going to make a difference, it's going to be a very long-term investment on our part. it's unfortunate that yemen has taken a turn that it's taken. i don't think the situation is irretrievable. i think with some effort on our part and the part of the rest of the international community, we can get it back on track. then i would hope that we would then stay with it and help the yemeni people achieve a good outcome. they're good people. they're people who probably deserve a lot better than they've gotten. it would be good to be part of a success. >> i appreciate your time. madame chair, thank you for the indulgence. >> mr. ambassador, yemen is a

quickly moving terrain. we would appreciate you keeping our subcommittee abreast of any developments. we don't have to have a formal hearing. we can have a meeting in one of the meeting rooms. thank you for being accessible. lots of moving parts and we'd like to be abreast of every development. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. your testimony was exexcellent. with that the subcommittee is adjourned.

and taking you live now to a senate appropriations subcommittee hearing for testimony by veterans affairs secretary, robert mcdonald on the v.a.'s budget request for 2016. it's a nearly $170 billion plan that includes expanding health care and benefits. transforming the v.a. into a more veteran centric department and programs to end homelessness among veterans. mark kirk of illinois's, the chair of the subcommittee. you're watching c-span3.

>> he was a vietnam veteran in the marines and presented himself to the v.a. with chest pains. went to see dr. deetiter, the head of cardiology. he didn't want him to be in his win loss record. referred him to the floor. there, tom expired of a heart attack. wanted to make sure that that kind of a thing never happens to our veterans that we have. competent, strong administration of people. ms. secretary, i have raised

this issue with you multiple times. behind that is the story of lisa a cardiologist as we witnessed this whole thing and thought it was an outright malpractice happening in this case. i know you have a ten minute opening, mr. secretary. >> thank you chairman kirk. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i've got a pretty brief opening statement, and then we'll get after it. i want to thank chairman kirk for his leadership on this subcommittee. i want to welcome secretary mcdonald. thank you for your work as you appear before this subcommittee, and your commitment to this nation's veterans. mr. secretary, thank you for coming to montana. it was a great trip. very importativenformative. i hope we can work together to address the concerns raised

during the trip. i have been impressed by your leadership, mr. secretary. your cantor, willingness to confront toughish ishsueissues. the v.a. is under siege every day. you experience that every day. we have seen several scandals that has shaken the confidence of the v.a. it's created mistrust with veterans and some of the public. restoring that trust is one of your chief tasks and i know you know that. a lot of the responsibility also falls on our shoulders. it is critical that we provide you with the tools you need to get the job done. i firmly believe that we need to hold accountable those who have abused the authority for personal gain. also, i believe that we need to appropriately recognize and applaud the dedication of the vast majority of v.a. employees who come to work every single day with the singular goal of helping every veteran whose lives they tough. dedicating all our time to pummelling, no pun intended, the

v.a. for past failures is not a recipe for success or reform. our veterans deserve more than that. at the end of the day, we're in this together. fully supported by congress, american veterans are entitled to a health care system and benefits program that is better than any private sector or government benefits, and for good reason. the v.a. model of providing direct health care and benefits to the nation's veterans is something our veterans have come to rely on. it's something that congress has enshrined in law. so we each have a responsibility here to sustain this model of service. the v.a. must reform and improve its delivery of services to veteran, and congress needs to step up and fulfill the responsibility to fully fund the v.a.'s model of service that veterans have come to expect and demand. i want to thank you again mr. secretary, doctor, for being before the subcommittee. thank you.

>> chairman kirk, ranking member tester and members of the subcommittee thanks for the opportunity to discuss v.a.'s 2016 is and 2017 advanced appropriations budget. we appreciate your steadfast support for veterans and the assistance of veteran support organizations. as v.a. moves from a series crisis, we have a critical opportunity. we intend to take full advantage of it to make v.a. a model agency in customer experience, comparable to the best private sector businesses. currently, 11 of 22 million veterans are registered, enrolled or use at least one v.a. benefit or service. the cost of fulfilling our obligations grows over time because veterans' demands for services and benefits continue to increase. in 2014, 40 years after the war ended, 22% of vietnam veterans were receiving service connected disability benefits.

we expect the percentage to increase. from 1960 to the year 2000, the percentage of veterans receiving v.a. compensation was about 8.5%. in the last 14 years that's more than doubled to 19%. in 2009, vba completed about 980,000 claims. in fiscal year 2017, we project we'll complete over 1.4 million claims. 47% increase. there's been a huge growth in the number of medical issues in claims. 2.7 million in 2009. a projected 5.9 million in 2017. that's a 115% increase over eight years. from 1950 to 1995 the average degree of disability amongst veterans was 30%. since 2000, the average degree of disability has risen to 47.7%. while the total number of veterans is declining, the number of those seeking care and benefits is increasing due to

more than a decade of war, age related claims unlimited claims appeal process, increased claims issues, far greater survival rates of the wounded and more sophisticated medical treatments. it's important to understand why. the most important consideration is an aging veteran population. 40 years ago 2.2 million veterans were 65 years old or older. that's 7.5% of the population. in 2017 we expect 9.8 million will be 65 years or older. that's 46%. we now serve an older erer population with greater care, chronic conditions and less able to afford private sector care. as veterans see positive changes at v.a., and as the military downsizes, those choosing v.a. will continue to rise. we are listening hard to what veterans, congress, employees

and vsos tell us. driving us to historic department-wide transformation, changing v.a.'s culture making veterans the center of everything we do. we call it my v.a. my v.a. focuses on five objectives to ref revolutionize culture. first, improving the veteran experience so every veteran has a seamless integrated and responsive customer service experience every single time. second, improving employee experience by eliminating barriers to customer service and focusing on our people and our culture to better serve veterans. third, improving our internal support services. fourth, establishing a culture of continuous improvement to identify and correct problems and replicate solutions at all facilities. last, fifth, enhancing strategic

partnerships. we can't do this by ourselves. strategic partnerships are critical. we organize the department geographically as the first step of achieving this goal. in the past, v.a. had nine disjointed geographic organization structures. our new organization framework has one national structure with five districts, aligning v.a.'s organizational boundaries. veterans will see one v.a. rather than multiple, disconnected organizations. last, my v.a. is about ensuring sound stewardship of taxpayer dollars. we'll integrate management systems to ensure consistency. we need congressional help. v.a. can't be a sound steward of resources with the current portfolio. it's time to close underutilized facileityies facilities. 900 v.a. facilities are over 90

years old. more than 1,300 are over 70 years old. v.a. has 336 buildings vacant or less than 50% occupied. that's 10.5 million square feet of empty space, costing about $24 million annually. we could use these funds to hire roughly 200 registered nurses for a year. pay for 144,000 primary care visits of veterans. or support 41,900 days of nursing care for veterans. help us do the right thing. my v.a. reforms will take time but in the long term they'll allow us to better care for veterans. our 2016 v.a. budget request allows us to transform under my v.a. it requests $168.8 billion. $73.5 billion in discretionary

funds. $5.2 billion above the 2015 enacted level. to continue serving a growing number of veterans seeking care and benefits. the research is required in the 2016 budget request are in addition to those congress provided in the veterans choice act. we don't know how many veterans will ultimately use the act for non-v.a. care. what we call community care. or how much it will cost. our estimates range from $4 billion on the low end to 13 billion on the high end. we do know that our recent decision to change the definition of the 40 mile provision of the act from straight line to road distance will approximately double the number of veterans eligible for the care under the act. as gibson testified last week, we propose funding the cost of the new denver hospital by requesting funds from the act. the denver project has a long

history. while poor v.a. project and contract management contributed to problems, decisions made years ago brought us to this point. in my opinion, the significant increase in the cost of the denver project results from four factors. first, not locking down design early in the process. second, some design aspects that add a cost. third, increases the construction costs in the denver market, while we had not effectively negotiated a firm target price. fourth premiums paid to contractors for perceived risk due to problems with the project. we've learned from these past mick mistakes and are taking meaningful, corrective actions to improve performance. among the actions are requiring construction projects to achieve at least 35% design prior to publishing costs and schedule information or requesting funds. second implementing a deliberate requirements process.

any significant changes in project scope or cost will be approved by me prior to submission to congress. third, institutionalizing a project review board similar to the core of engineers district offices use. fourth conducting preconstruction reviews of major projects. fifth, integrating medical equipment planners into the construction project teams from concept through activation. those measures will help us in the future but they won't finish denver. after analysis by the core of engineers, we inform the committee that the total estimated cost of the facility will be $1.73 billion. authorization increase of $930 million, and additional funding of 830$830 million. we believe requesting funds is the best choice. now, we must work with this committee and others to secure the funding. last if the president's budget

request is cut by the $1.4 billion proposed by your colleagues in the house, those reductions would have these effects. it would cut veterans medical care by $690 million. the equivalent of over 70,000 fewer veterans receiving v.a. medical care compared to the president's request. it would eliminate the funding for four major construction projects. this cut would reduce v.a.'s ability to provide additional outpatient services and will impact the following projects. the planned rehab therapy building in st. louis, missouri. the initial phase of the alameda, california, outpatient clinic. construction of the french camp california community-based outpatient clinic. the replacement 155 bed community living center in perry point, maryland. it would also eliminate funding for cemetery expansion projects in st. louis, portland

riverside, and pensacola and a new column in alameda reducing our ability to provide burial honors for as many as 18000 veterans. it is unacceptable to me and i know it's unacceptable to members of congress. chairman ranking member, members of the committee thanks again for your support for veterans and for working on these budget requests. we look forward to your questions. thank you, chairman. >> on denver, i'd ask unanimous consent if i can put in a statement that cory gardener gave us on this issue. so at $1.173 billion the denver hospital would take up so much money, it would fund missile

defense for 7.9 years. in the case of -- it would also take up four years of mill con for special operations. that's a big hit. i would add to your list of things that were done wrong in denver, is that you didn't have the army core of engineers overseeing the construction of the facility. i want to make sure by june 1st you have already done that. >> mr. chairman, we've already done it as of today. i mean the core of engineers is active on the ground. we're working with them in concert. we continue to want to use the core of engineers and ss in other major projects. may i make a statement, mr. chairman chairman? this is not really a hospital. it's a medical complex. this is what the complex looks like. as you can see it's many buildings. it's not one building. it's very close to the university of colorado medical school, who is a partner of

ours. so this is a major undertaking of many buildings not just one hospital. just wanted to be clear on that, sir. >> i would say that your proposal has been to take $1 billion from the care act to sink into this thing. that would eliminate about 20% of the care act money. the promise we've already made to american veterans, we don't want to go back on that promise because of the mismanagement of the denver facility. we need to have the people involved with this fired and no longer a part of the payroll. >> the gentleman in charge of construction at v.a. is no longer with us. we conducted an administrative investigation -- >> no longer with us meant he quietly retired. he's collecting from the taxpayer? >> he retired the day after the interview he had. to the best of my knowledge both in the private sector and

the public sector it is impossible to claw back a retirement unless malland the investigation is ongoing. >> we had evidence of a whistleblower who sent an e-mail very early on and said this project is likely to go $500 million over budget. that whistleblower was fired by the v.a. because of that e-mail. want to make sure this process of nailing whistleblower is wiped out in the v.a. how would we have that happen? >> i'm not familiar with the situation you're describing. i would love to be able to get more information on that and follow up. we have been working with the office of special council to make sure all of the whistleblowers who have been retaliated against -- >> let me get it for the record. the person you're talking about was glenn hegstrum.

saying we would go $500 million over budget was delano grosby. that person was let go and turned out to be exactly correct on all of our warnings to v.a. >> we have said it's unacceptable to retaliate against anyone who is criticizing our operation. in fact, we believe, we want employees to help us improve our operation. we've worked with the special council to get certified in our activities around whistle blowers. we have reinstituted several whistle blowers to new jobs. we celebrated with a national award. it's unacceptable.

>> i want to make sure we don't wipe out the cares money for the overrun in denver that we standby our veterans there there. we just don't know how much of the care money would be used. i understand if we wrap up the denver situation that caused $3 million a month to maintain that. do you understand that to be true? >> we don't have that, but we'll check on it. >> let many go to mr. tester. >> thank you, mr. chairman. everyone knows how important this committee is to our veterans in this country and how we need to do a job together. below the request.

and they achieved this largely by freezing the major construction level of fy '15 levels. there have been a lot of folks that have criticized the v.a. for not being frank about what you need for money. a lot of criticism was warranted led to funding shortfalls and subsequently had to be addressed through emergency legislation such as choice act. and now, a lot of the folks who demanded from you are the same folks that refused to give you the resources you need to achieve the results our veterans need when they come to see you. >> as i said in the committee meeting budget, we put in this

budget knowing it was going to be tight versus the demand we faced. we can't predict whether veterans are going to go for community care with a choice act or whether they're going to go with v.a. care. because of the way the budget is formed i don't have the flexibility to move money where the veteran goes. are you getting more demand on your facilities? >> the spending cut means that less veterans are going to get care it's been cut, by the equivalent of 70,000 veterans receiving v.a. medical care.

>> yes we won't have the money to care for them. >> we have given increased funding and mechanism to address workforce shortage in the v.a. we could be losing ground. not only attracting new physicians and medical personnel. the v.a. needs the authority to let them do their jobs and then crushing the ability to address the workforce needs we have in montana.

who are doing their job, working with the veterans. even if it means less pay and longer hours. to what extent has this impacted your ability to recruit to the v.a.? >> well, senator tester, as you know, i've been to over a dozen medical schools and talked to candidates to become nurses and doctors at the v.a. and the has affected the perception on the v.a. we have increased the salary bands of our doctors. we are looking at competitive pay of providers within our system. we have hired more doctors. we currently have hired over 800 more doctors, over 2,000 more nurses.

and we have opened new facilities. we opened about 17 new facilities a year. but the demand as you've suggested has increased. we've gone from roughly 4 million outpatient patients to over -- nearly 6 million. and that demand's going to increase as we continue to improve the system and improve our customer service. and we've not even seen the full effect of the iraq and afghani wars and yet the veterans who fought those wars. we have to build a capability today to be ready for five years, ten years, 20 years from now. and that's what our plan does. >> i'll talk more about those capabilities next round. >> let me add on to that. i understand that glenn hegstrum, responsible for the debacle in denver got a $60,000 bonus according to senator gardner. >> and if we're giving big bonuses like that, how can we ever take care of veterans? >> i believe that bonus was for

2013 or before. and not for recently. we've got the administrative investigation going on. and as we get to the bottom of this, we will figure out what the appropriate action is. >> mr. boseman. >> thank you mr. chairman. and i agree with the senator from montana. the vast majority of the v.a. personnel are doing a great job working very, very hard. i think the thing that shows that is how few have actually accessed the program that we were trying to stand up so they'll have to travel. you know, many of them are traveling even though they can stay home. but it's hard. i'm going to bring up an issue that was before your time. yet, it is hard in the sense that, you know people are

losing faith congress is losing faith. we have an issue in little rock. congressman hill has been looking into this very vigorous vigorously. where we have a situation in february of 2012, the v.a. received an $8 million grant to build a 1.8 megawatt panel system at the veterans hospital in august of 2012, the v.a. approved a parking deck project, which is located in the same place as the solar panels. in january of 2013, construction on the solar panels began on the same location as the planned parking garage. v.a. officials were aware of the conflict at the time. in august of 2013, the solar panel constructions completed in april 2015. then, you know, the v.a. dismantles them to build the parking lot and it's still not clear as to how much it's going to cost to put them back. and whether or not they were ever able to function in the

grid to begin with. so, i guess, what i'd like is, you know, we've got these things going on. what are the safeguards that we've got? how are you dealing with this kind of stuff? >> well, i've mention smofd the changes we've made to the process of construction in my comments. i've also mentioned we've changed the leader. we have a new leader named greg gibbons. he's got experience across many sectors of government and has done this before. i also happen to be an engineer. my certification was an engineer in training. i studied in engineering at west point, from the state of pennsylvania. and our deputy secretary's a former cfo of a bank very bright, intelligent guy. we're digging into this in the best -- in the strongest possible way and i would just simply say that's not going to happen. i mean, that happened in 2012. i appreciate you bringing it up. but that's not going to happen

in the future. it's just not going to happen. what we're doing is we're having design committees we're having outside people review our processes, we're using the corps of engineers the best practices available in industry today in order to make our system better. one thing we have to be careful of, that process started then. and i don't know how forthcoming v.a. was in admitting the process was there. and even now when you ask how much is it going to cost to reinstall, we get terms like, i think, procurement sensitive or something like that. that's not appropriate. >> i agree. we are trying to be more transparent than ever before. and i would hope that since i've become secretary, you've seen an increase in my presence and the transpar