there was a narrow staircase on the right. he knew the best room was the front parlor, occupied by george and hilda francis, so he reached for the door here. it was locked. he went down to the second door here. this door was locked. hilda francis was inside frantically getting dressed. she had seen the president being brought to the house through the front windows, so she was already dressed for bed, so she wanted to put on clothes. she did not unlock this story either. all that was left was this little room at the back of the hallway which was occupied by a civil war soldier. but he was out for the evening. he led them to the back room here. you can see how narrow the hallway is. there is barely enough room for soldiers to stand on each side of lincoln and carry him down the hallway. they took him into this room and laid him on a spindle bed in the corner.

>> american history tv is featuring c-span's original series. at 8 p.m. eastern on sunday night throughout the rest of the year. in a moment, we look at abigail adams. c-span produce a series in cooperation of the white house historical association. video tours of historic site and questions from the c-span audience. we tell the story of america's 45 first ladies. now, abigail adams. this is about 90 minutes. ♪

>> abigail would grow to be the equal of john adam as confidant and dearest friend. she has really revealed herself as an 18th-century woman, but her concerns sound very modern to us today. >> john and abigail had become so prominent in the mind of americans because this collection of papers in the publications that have open them up to the world. >> it's a story of sacrifice commitment to country, and abigail rose to the occasion. >> abigail was adamantly opposed to slavery. >> she was -- she wore her husband, we can't rule without including what women want and what women have to contribute. >> the backdrop is one of political defeat and personal tragedy. >> she is worried about her husband and defend him against

slander. she is concerned about her children, their upbringing, their education. >> she could hold her own with anybody in her own time and since. she was in every way her husband's equal. >> born in 1740 car -- abigail married john adams at age 14. they had five children together including a future president. ahead of her time in many ways and writer perhaps unparalleled to any first lady, abigail -- all history every age exhibits interest of virtue to the female sex. it equals the most aerobic of all. welcome to first lady's influence and image. for the next 90 minutes, we will be learning more about abigail adams. the second first lady of the united states. we have to guess who is spent much of their professional

careers learning about the adams in bringing their writings to the public. let me introduce them to you. edith is the author of numerous books. and jim taylor is the editor-in-chief of the adams papers at the massachusetts historical society. abigail adams just by virtue of the fact of eating the wife of the second president and mother of another president heard her place in history. you saying your book that she is a historical figure in her own right. how so? >> primarily because she left those letters and we have a record of her life. but the letters are not ordinary, they are extraordinary. they are wonderfully written and there are many of them. so abigail was a letter writer. and a time when women can publish for publication.

her letters became her outlet and they are the best record we have of women's role in the american revolution. and for the era of very early national government of the united states. susan: last week, we learned that martha washington burned all of her letters. of correspondence with her husband. only two of them remain. we have the opposite here. thousands of them. explain the scope of the trove of materials that you have to work with as scholars to the writings of the adams family. c. james : the adams family gave to the massachusetts historical society of collection. we have never counted them individually, but probably 70,000 plus documents. probably about 300,000 pages. for abigail and john, there are about 1170 letters they

exchanged over the years. susan: how frequently did they write to one another? c. james: depended. when they were together, we do not have any letters after 1801. after john leaves the white house, they're together almost all the time. but for periods when there is fairly regular mail delivery between massachusetts and philadelphia or later, washington, dc, they wrote at least once a week and sometimes twice a week. susan: this program is an interactive one, which makes it more enjoyable. in about 50 minutes, we will be taking your telephone calls. we will put the numbers on the screen. there are two other ways you can be involved. if you go to twitter, we will include some of your tweets. use the #first ladies. you can also go to facebook and we posted a spot where you can send questions.

i'm going to start with a facebook comment. from sofia. "she looks like a tough cookie." by looking at the words of abigail adams, was she a tough cookie? edith: oh, my goodness. yes and no. in fact, one of the things that is important to understand is that she started out as a naive young woman whose expectations were to have a normal life like her mother did. the revolution disrupted that. her whole life shifted and --. this is one of the reasons she has become so great a model for us as women. she used the opportunities of this disruption in her life to grow as a person. she begins as a naive young woman and she does become a very sophisticated worldly opinionated woman.

c. james: i think this is one of the things that makes her most attractive. a good character in a novel develops over time. she's like a good character in a novel, she develops. susan: what were her roots? where was she born? what was her upbringing such that she became a woman of letters? edith: she was the daughter of a minister, reverend william smith. her mother was descended from nobility in new england. the clergy and political world of new england, of massachusetts bay colony. her mother's family were nortons and quincy's. she grew up in a household that was quite middle-class for that time and had two sisters and one brother. she was by all reports, sickly

as a child and therefore did not go to any kind of public schooling. of which there were a few. but was educated at home by her mother. she read at random in her father's library. susan: in the course of reading her writing, when did she become political? and can you describe her politics? c. james: i am trying to think. very early on when john is at the continental congress, she craves the news. she wants the newspapers. she wants pamphlets when they are published. one of the things -- she is consuming the news at that time. all of the news was printed. she begins -- by the mid 1770s she is on board. susan: in what capacity, what

was her political thinking? c. james: she was an ardent revolutionary, she was very supportive. the fact that john was participating, they were partners. in everything that he did. at some point, he writes to her thanking her for being a partner. later on, i think she is more conservative than john in some ways when it came to national politics. susan: we will be looking at some of her letters throughout the program. a very famous one was remember the ladies. that is a letter that is of particular interest to you. you write that the scope of it is much more broad. why is that letter significant in understanding abigail adams?

edith: the letter does many things. my sense of abigail is that she wrote at night and she would enter a kind of revelry in which she followed her thought pattern wherever she went. she changes topics in her letters. many times. it starts out with a political statement about why the southerners favored slavery and are still doing a rebellion against the tyranny. and she questions that. and then she goes on and in the middle of a paragraph, remember the ladies. and then goes on further to suggest that if john did not like this idea, it was a remarkable thing because he was actually in a position to do something. to make a change.

because he was on the committee that was drafting a declaration of independence. he actually could have made a move for women's rights at that time. it is remarkable that she did suggest that. susan: give us a sense of the role women have in society. at that time. they could not publish under their own name, they certainly couldn't vote. how could women be influential? c. james: it is much more subtle. in the same way -- many times, a decision is made, people think that the husband makes the decision. well, there is a kitchen table discussion that goes on before that. probably in the adams household, there were a lot of kitchen table discussions between john and abigail. abigail may not have been the

most obvious in making the decisions. i think that she influenced john a lot. we know much later after the revolution that she is very influential. in helping him formulate ideas. susan: i want to tell you a little bit about what the country looks like in 1800. we have some statistics we will put on screen to give you some of the scope. for example, by that point, in the census in 1800 which was done by john marshall went on to the supreme court. and secretary of state james madison. the population was 5.3 million across 16 states. they are around 990,000 blacks. about 19% of the population. only 12% of them free. 5.3 million was a 35% growth in the country. justin 10 years since the 1790 census. the average life expectancy was 39 years.

the largest cities were new york, philadelphia, baltimore. what are some of the things we should take away from those statistics? that's caps on of america. -- that snapshot of america. c. james: there is an expansion going on. this is one of the things that is very difficult for the adams because politics are changing and changing politics means they are new englanders. their federalist. as time goes by, as the population moved south and west, makes it more difficult for politics they believe in. susan: and then, we will invite your telephone calls. i am told you want to read a passage. from one of her letters. edith: i would like to remark on the 39-year life span. that is not exactly accurate to the extent that children died much more rapidly. so that if a child survived to

12, the life span was much longer. many people lived into their 70's, as the adams did. susan: the five children, how many of them survived to adulthood? edith: four. susan: you wanted to read from the letter we talked about earlier? edith: in this particular letter, she was ruminating about conditions in her life and what was going on in her world. she says, i would like to hear that you have declared independence. she knew john was on the committee. by the way, i desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors.

which is a bold and remarkable statement for a woman to have made in that era. susan: based on the relationship we have seen detailed in the letters, would it have been a surprising thing for her to say? c. james: no, i don't think so at all. we're back to the kitchen table. i am sure that before he rode off to philadelphia, she filled his ear with a lot of ideas along the way. john knows that there are several groups of people servants, slaves, also moved during this time to think about their rights and their independence. susan: what was her viewpoint on slavery? c. james: she was opposed to slavery. she had a servant, a black servant, who had been a slave of her fathers. i think the woman -- what was the story? cb -- phoebe.

did she have the right to be free after -- i cannot remember. edith: abigail cared for her for the rest of her life. after her parents died. she lived in their house. when they went to europe. susan: the adams business was a farm. how did they manage to work the farm? what kind of labor did they use? edith: tenant farming. they did have hired labor. it became very problematic for abigail. the whole situation of having labor on the land. i want to go back to the letter. you mentioned john's response to her, and what she does in this letter in addition to saying why is it that southerners can

support our revolution when they keep people in slavery? then she goes on and says remember the ladies -- and then she says, if you do not pay attention to this, rebellion. and then it goes on further to say that you should treat us the same way that god treats people. she invokes the hierarchy. in this one letter, she brings up so many ideas. i would suggest that her threat to ferment a revolution is indicative of one of the ways the adams related to each other. eight east each other. his response to her was a tease -- they teased each other. his response to her was a tease also. one of the ways in which they related, it seems to me. in terms that the escalating an argument, it brings it down to normal. one of the ways in which they related to things to me. susan: how did they meet each other?

c. james: they met at her father's house. he went as a dinner guest with a lifelong friend. he then married the elder sister. abigail was not yet 15. at that time john was not enthusiastic about her at first. apparently, things changed over the years. he was 9 years older than her. he was 23 or 24. edith: he had a girlfriend at the time. c. james: there was an amazing story that he was about to propose to this woman and one of his friends burst in and broke

the mood and she went off and married somebody else. it came within a whisker of him proposing to someone else. susan: he was a lawyer. would that have been a profession that her family would have appreciated? edith: the family lore suggested that it was not. when charles francis adams wrote about it, that her family disapproved of her marrying a lawyer. but she was also very young. i think they were being protective. susan: was john political at that point? did she know she was going to be choosing a life of project that's politics -- a life of politics? edith: no one knew about the revolution. all of this is happening when there is no revolution. there is no revolution on the horizon. he was interested in politics. i think he was running profit by this time. -- running for office. c. james: his trajectory was to be a lawyer in massachusetts. he was following that line. susan: it is important to know

because these two were married for 54 years. they were great partners. even though it was not a love match in the beginning, it grew to become one. we have one letter as an example. this is the adorable letter. you will see that next. >> what is so appealing about the family series is the intimacy that the letters reveal. the earliest extant letter we have dates to october 1762. we call it the miss adorable letter. because that is how john adams opens the letter. it was john writing to abigail. he says by the same order that the bearer sat upon you tonight, i hereby order you to give him as many kisses and as many hours of your company after 9:00 at she shall please to demand.

and charge them to my account. and he continues. i presume i have good right to draw upon you for the kisses as i had given two or three millions at least. when one has been received, and of consequence, the account between us is immensely in favor of yours. very teasing affectionate tones. there's just some wonderful moments in their courtship correspondence. >> fun to bring these founding fathers, people that we see in these two-dimensional poses, come to life and have real personalities. if people were clearly having fun and enjoyed one another. c. james: i think this is one of the most appealing things about john and abigail. they have a life that you can follow because of the documents. you see them in good times and in bad.

you see death in the family, you see triumph. it is like "downton abbey." but it's not exactly. it is a wonderful story. it is because we have so many of these documents. there is texture there you don't have with the other founders. susan: based on how you describe her admonitions to john about remembering the ladies, brenda elliott on twitter wants to know-- would you say abigail adams was the mother of women's rights. edith: one of the things that we know is that women were aware of their subordinate role in the 18th century. because we have those letters, where she writes about this, we know that she was not exemplary. other women in her time were totally agreeing with her. and a colleague.

i think that one of the things we have learned in the women's movement in the late 20th early 21st century is that we can trace the movement for women's rights back further and further in history. abigail happens to be an outstanding example because she left us letters that say these things. she was also very eloquent. not everyone could write like that. she was a wonderful writer. susan: first telephone call. comes from jan in new york city. >> good evening. she certainly was one of the first great american female writers, she was also a poor mother. despite john quincy, another son committed suicide. and another son drank himself to death. susan: what she a good mother? edith: yes, a very good mother.

we live in a post-freudian world in which when something goes wrong inside of a family, the mother gets the blame. first of all, the children were living through a revolution. secondly, their father was not at home for 25 years. she was doing it all by herself. she was coping in a situation which was extraordinary. i think that applying 21st century standards to mothering and even the psychology that has developed in the early 20th century does not fly for the 18th century. susan: mary is up next from california. >> thank you for taking my call. i am interesting in finding out the relationship between abigail and thomas jefferson. did they correspond during

john's year of not speaking to each other? i've also heard that abigail had an intimate relationship with him as far as correspondence went. and i'm wondering how true that is. c. james: they were very good friends at one time. the highest point of the relationship was when abigail was in france and then in england and thomas jefferson was a diplomat abroad at that time. they were very close. as a matter of fact, for a while, while jefferson was in paris and she was in london, they bought goods for one another. they kept accounts for one another. at one point, one of jefferson's younger daughters came from virginia to france, but stopped in london and abigail took care of her during that time. during the national period

particularly after the election of 1800, the relationship really fell apart. it was over politics. during that time, abigail was very disappointed with jefferson. susan: next up is matt in wisconsin. >> i was wondering what some of the intellectual influences on her writing was. at the that she might have read and how they might have influenced her. susan: thank you. did she have influences? edith: she was a great reader. this is the beginning point of learning to write well, to read good literature. she read the bible.

c. james: when we do the research on her letters, if she is quoting somebody or citing somebody, we want to identify who is. sometimes she does not use quotation marks. educated people in 18th century a lot of things automatically. i would say the things she quoted most often were things that she referenced with shakespeare, the bible, the classics. susan: this next call is from quincy, massachusetts. >> hello. congratulations on having this wonderful series on the first ladies. i live in quincy, massachusetts, and we are very lucky see and experience and breathe the adams life up close every day. my comment would be about abigail's sentiment about remembering the ladies. i think she pretty much -- women

can change destinies, of nations and the world if they set their mind to it. it is very important because women are the primary factors in bringing up the children. especially since she did it on the brink of the united states as we know it today. adams was instrumental in the constitution and the forming of this nation. quincy is actually called the birthplace of the american dream. she may not be formally recognized, but she definitely

had a very important role in shaping women's place in this country and in history. susan: thank you. observation, rather than a question. the caller was from quincy. we will taking you next to the quincy home as they prepare to tell you the story of the revolutionary times. in which the adams lived. let's watch. >> the story of abigail adams is a story of sacrifice and commitment to country. abigail rose to the occasion. for the first 10 years, they lived in this home, from 1764-1774. it is where they raise their four children. this is the birthplace of their second child, john quincy adams, who went on to become president of the united states. the primary link between she and

john adams would be letter writing. it was from this house that he was provided a window into what was happening back here in the colony of massachusetts. during the revolutionary war. she would report to john about the militia in boston. during the battle of bunker hill, she took her son and she would watch the battle of bunker hill with her son and report about the fires and smoke. she was the eyes of the revolution to john adams and the second continental congress in philadelphia. we are in the hub of the household. this room in particular could be really considered the classroom for abigail and her four children.

during the war, one must remember schools were closed down. the children did not benefit from formal education. it was up to abigail to teach lessons. not only arithmetic and french but also morality, literature, and what is going on in the revolution. she was their primary educator in the home. this is the room where many lessons would have taken place. she reported to john adams. at one point she began to take up the works of law and agent history, and she was having john quincy read at least two agents today. i don't know if anyone who has read this history, but for a seven-year-old boy to read this, he had a very good instructor in abigail. there were many refugees leaving from austin into the country had they needed a place to live. abigail adams wanted to open a home next door for these refugees. she rented out the house to a farmer. they would provide assistance on the farm here.

she reported to john that was met with ill-treatment. she asked mr. hayes to share his house but he refused. by the time abigail received a response, she had solved the problem herself and reported to john later. she had taken care of it and made mr. hayes leave. there are troops that are marching in her yard practicing their maneuvers and prepping for war. she reports to john that young john quincy is behind the house watching proudly. at one point there were militia living in the upstairs attic and also the second or. she welcomed the militia men to her home and supported the revolutionary war with her actions. susan: the adams life and trajectory puts them into the biggest events of our country.

we have a timeline on some of the key points. you can see 1744 when she was born and mary john adams 20 years later. after that, the stamp act. then the boston massacre. if you are watching that timeline and wanted to ask about how endangered the adams family were living in the midst of this separation. and being sympathizers against the government. edith: for the first decade of their marriage, abigail and john lived together. it was during this decade that the events happened, that the events escalated towards war. this was the kind of simultaneous parallel occurrence at the personal level and then

the more global political level. during this time, there was not danger. there was danger once lexington and concorde had happened. once there was fighting in the massachusetts bay area. it was dangerous. more than that, they didn't know if there would be danger. they never knew where the next troop deployment was going to happen. she was ready at any minute to live away from the house, to move inland. and bring them to safety. susan: how much time was she alone while john adams was working on the foundations of the government? edith: from 1774 until 1780 or they were a part most of the time. he came a couple of times for a couple of months, but during that time she was alone on the farm by herself bringing up the children. susan: and she was writing these letters. how concerned with the about his family back in massachusetts?

c. james: i think he is very concerned. there is one heart wrenching time when she is pregnant and writing right up until the time that she begins labor, and because of the time and distance -- which is so hard for us to understand now, with our instant communication -- he is writing hoping that she will have a daughter and that everything will be fine. in the meantime, the infant is born dead. she had a premonition that this was going to happen. while he is writing happily, joyfully, she has buried this child. he knows that she is capable of doing almost anything that a woman or man could do during that time, but there is a certain helplessness on his part.

he is so consumed by what he is doing over there, but then he will reflect and send, kiss tommy and johnny. a lot of it is very emotional. susan: when war broke out, i read that she was so supportive that she would do things like how the effort by melting down a cuter -- pewter housewares so that they could be made into bullets. was that common? edith: sure, people were doing that altogether. i'm going to pass on that. susan: let's take a couple more calls as we learn more about the revolutionary years of the adams family. next is a call from denise in michigan. >> hello. i would like to know if the miniseries from hbo was reflected in any way of how things really where, in the sense of family. i know they did not go too deep into that.

i would also like to know, when you talk about five kids, was that the baby who died? was it correct about the sun -- the son drinking? to death. susan: first, the hbo mini series. which brought the adams family to the forefront for a lot of contemporary americans here it --. c. james: it was good history. part of it was drama also, so you have to understand in order to make it appealing, a little license was taken. generally, it was pretty good history. susan: there was this tweet -- the caller asked about the five children and didn't include the child who died? edith: the child who died was the third child, born before charles. there was abigail jr., then john

quincy, then a third child named susana who lived only one year and there is very little reference to this child in their correspondence. we know very little about it. abigail was pregnant at the time of the death of susana. her third child charles was born. at the end of her life, when her daughter-in-law lost a child, in st. petersburg, abigail wrote to her, and for the first time i have seen, she made reference to having lost a baby daughter. it was a closed topic. susan: the caller also wanted to know about the son who was an alcoholic and died. edith: charles -- people did not know about alcoholism in those days. it was considered sinful. it was not considered a disease.

charles is throughout the correspondence treated as a person who was sensitive. from the earliest years, he was sensitive. he went to europe with his father in 1779, and he had to come back because he was home sick. thereafter, every reference about him, is that he was a sweet child, a pleasant child. but also fragile, and he may have got into trouble when he was in hartford. -- hartford. his life was a regular. c. james: you know from the letters between abigail and her sisters and that they kept an eye on him, that there was a problem. it is never fully discussed. i think one of the things that was difficult for abigail is that her brother was an alcoholic also. and left his family. susan: this viewer on family says, abigail adams sounds most like eleanor roosevelt. if she had been born at a later

age, which she had been like eleanor roosevelt? edith: that's very hard. yes, she certainly wasn't, she had all of the attributes of a very dynamic woman who was opinionated and would have had her own goals to pursue. she would have been very influential. she was very influential in the presidency. we know. susan: a lot of historians -- there have been a four surveys of historians over the past decades abigail adams always comes in the number two or number three position as most influential. why? c. james: who would be number one? edith: eleanor roosevelt, i think. why does she end up in the number two spot? c. james: there is a distance in time. people have other images. people are still alive that new eleanor roosevelt.

she is modern. if you did a survey now, jacqueline kennedy would probably rate much higher because people know and like her at that time. abigail, the only be we have from her are the letters. susan: and she's still in the number two spot. not bad. she seemed to route this to hundred years being the second most influential first ladies based on the letters you have been spending your career on. c. james: i think also, if you see her influence on her husband, i do not know there have been many first ladies that have had that kind of influence. susan: what is a specific example of an important policy that you see she worked on him? c. james: i do not know of a particular policy. it is that he consults her all the time. she talks -- her letters at a certain point are divided into two things, this is what is happening with

the children, this is what is happening on the farm, here are my thoughts about politics. she shared all the time. by the time he got to be president, and he was not popular with his party, she was his major adviser. susan: we're talking about letters. here is another in a video piece of a letter, add if to -- abigail to john, focus on virginia. [video clip] >> the remember the ladies letter is a letter everybody knows. this letter and associates it with abigail adams. what is lesser-known and what is fascinating is that the remember the ladies comment comes quite far down in the letter. the first section of her letter to john is questioning and voicing her concerns about virginia's role in the revolutionary war. she writes, what sort of defense

virginia can make against our common enemy, whether it is so situated as to make an able defense, are not the gentry lords and the common people vassals? are they not like the uncivilized natives? she continues, and one of her probably most pointed comments on slavery -- i am sometimes been ready to think that the passion for liberty cannot be equally strong in the breast of those who have been accustomed to deprive their fellow creatures of theirs. of this i am certain, that it is not founded upon that generous and christian principle of doing to others as we would that others should do unto us. susan: how influential was this opinion about enslaved people on john adams's thinking?

c. james: i think john adams had to be more practical. he is in congress. he is dealing with these people. he cannot alienate them. he couldn't eat -- maybe he could because he was outspoken. but he had to help hold this together. it is easy to be a critic when you're not there. i think throughout the first 60 years of the country, people had to tread softly in order to keep the union together. susan: we are going to fast forward. the country is formed. the washingtons are elected president and serving in new york, then philadelphia. john adams is vice-president. how does he and abigail decide their household? did she move to new york, or philadelphia? how did they arrange all that? edith: john was vice-president

for eight years. he moved to new york for one year, because the capital was in new york for the first year. she loved it. she had a beautiful house on the hudson river overlooking the city of manhattan and overlooking new jersey's sore. -- shore. she loved it. she was also happy because her daughter lived nearly -- nearby. then she moved to philadelphia and she spent the entire year ill. it was not the climate for her. her health was always precarious. she decided after that year in philadelphia, they decided together that she would stay at home. there was no precedent for the first lady and the second lady to be living with the men. it was by choice that martha did it. abigail had the liberty to choose to go home. she did for the next six years. susan: on her illness, we learned last week that the city of philadelphia was

decimated at the start of the second washington term with yellow fever. 12% of the population died. did she have an illness related to that? did she have an illness related to that? edith: no. it is very hard to tell. she describes symptoms, but it is hard to put a name on it. she did have rheumatism. beyond that, the symptoms she describes are very hard to diagnose. susan: there was no role model for being the second lady at the time. but on twitter -- c. james: i am not sure about that. susan: was she a national figure? c. james: no, not at all. she was known because she had been the wife of the minister to great britain -- of the problems

they had is that people thought they were monarchical, they had been tainted by their time in europe. i think this is one other interesting things about abigail, she grew up minister's daughter, and then she sat at -- at one point she is at versailles, so she is a much more sophisticated person. much more so than martha washington. martha washington was american elite, abigail was international. susan: what is the relationship between martha washington and abigail adams? edith: it was wonderful. abigail loved martha. she met her when she was the mother of the vice- president. whenever they had a social event, there were very close. whenever she wrote about martha, which was not much, but when she

did write about martha, it was in the most glowing terms. c. james: one of the things she did was just after she knew that john was going to be elected, she wrote to martha washington asking her about how to be the first lady, how she would carry the role. edith: martha wrote back and said you know inside yourself how to behave. susan: we know that is a tradition that continues today for new incoming first ladies, reach out to the people that served before, to understand the enormity of the task. here is a call. it is from ron in washington. >> good evening. thank you for the program. i read one of your guests books and some earlier works on john adams. i still think the most

comprehensive biography, technically of john adams, but really of them both, was one done more than half a century ago, two volumes by paige smith. i think that stands out. edith: i think no one writes about john adams today without consulting page smith. the foundation for writing about. it is remarkable to me, because the adams papers had just been open to the public at the time when he started writing his look. he had this so thoroughly researched. c. james: that was the first thing i wrote about graduate school. susan: the caller was nice to mention your books. i want to show some of them. we're hoping people be intrigued enough to read more. "abigail adams: a writing life." another, "my dearest friend: the letters of abigail and john adams." can you dive right in and get a

sense of the person? c. james: yes, you might need a little bit of historical context, the letters are personal. in some ways, they are timeless. the talk about problems that people have today, concerns that people have today. not the political context, but the intimacy. edith: abigail's letters have it in print and she has been read since 1840 when her grandson's first published an edition of her letters. which went through four editions in the 1840's. she was a best seller through the 19th century, people knew her.

she has always been famous. susan: i won't be able to find the tweet as quickly as i need to, but nobody asked -- somebody asked a question, did the adams to think about their letters being published? c. james: as early as 1776, don -- john is telling her to keep the letters. at a certain point, there is a consciousness in some, particularly his letters. they know at a certain point and i'm not sure when the cross the threshold, that they are important. that is one of the reasons the family saves the letters. early on, it is the motion with -- emotion with the miss adorable letters and so on. but later on, their letters extend from 1762 -- the miss adorable . the most important years. susan: they understand they were players.

c. james: i think so. susan: this is the tweet. i don't know that that is true. i think what we said was that abigail and life is friendship helped facilitate the relationship between washington and adams when they were trying to understand what a president and vice-president might do. can you see any evidence for that? c. james: i don't know, i think john and george washington got along pretty well all the time. john adams was extraordinarily supportive of washington and was personally injured when some of the press turned on washington could not believe it. martha and george were a hard act to follow. they knew they would be difficult. susan: we will move into the

years of their one-term presidency. before that video, there's a time in one of your books, you call it a splendid missouri -- misery being in the white house. explain what that phrase meant. edith: it was splendid in that they were at the pinnacle of his political career and her career. they had risen to the top. and it was nothing but trouble agonizing trouble from the very beginning. at very first, john was very enthusiastic about becoming president. abigail said, i'm going to stay here in quincy. she was taking care of john's mother. and she said, i will not be there until october. he said, that's fine, you do not come until october. once he was in the presidency,

he discovered it was the loneliest place in the world. he started writing letters, drop everything that you're doing come here, i need you immediately. she did. c. james: one of the interesting things, one of the reasons she was hesitant was she said, i like to be outspoken. she knew that in that context, she could not. when she was in quincy, she could. susan: when she was in quincy, there was a house they built another called peace field. let's take a look at it. >> in 1787, abigail realized they outgrew their cottage. she began to negotiate through her cousin to purchase a house we're standing in front of right now. john adams enjoyed a lot of peace and tranquility at this home, as did abigail. he called it peacefield. there were two rooms on the first floor, to go on the second, and smaller bedrooms on the third floor. and a small kitchen in the back. there were about seven and a half rooms on this home. this was their home base. before becoming first lady

abigail was spent nine years in this house. the first year, she was setting up the house after returning from europe. she had remembered this house as one of the grand houses in quincy. her perception had changed after living in europe. she began making plans to enlarge the house. she wanted to improve on the size and height of the ceilings and the space. she would write to her daughter, warning her not to wear any of her large feathered hats because the ceilings were too low. she began working with an architect to enlarge the home. in effect, doubling the size. they added a long hall and along entertainment room where she would receive her guests. with sensitivity to the architecture on the outside and

the flow of the home, she had the builder did down so they -- dig down so they could lower the floors and get the high ceilings that she desired without disrupting the architecture. you step down two steps and you're in a whole different world. a typical day for abigail would be to rise at 5:00 in the morning. she had many chores to do much for time was spent in the farm taking care of the orchard taking care of the house. she also loved those early morning hours to spend by herself, preparing herself for the day. most of importantly, having a chance to indulge in one of her novels. although this was a presidential home, it is the home of a family. abigail, instead of having servants do all the work, even as a first lady, she would also be contributing to the kitchen and running of the household. this is something she continued throughout her life no matter what her position was. she was very involved. she had children and grandchildren visiting. it was an active and lively household.

she spent a great deal of time writing. again, their misfortune was our fortune. in one letter when he is asking her to come to philadelphia, abigail would write of the room that she was in and the view that she saw. the beauty that unfolds outside the window tempts me to forget the past. this is an indication that while abigail was back here, she was on a new beginning as the first lady of the united states, as the wife of the president, and still a mother. she would describe life here so romantically that john adams would reply in one of his letters, oh my sweet little farm, what i would do to enjoy thee without interruption. susan: of the four years of his presidency, how much time did she spend at peacefield vs. the capitol? edith: she became ill in 1798 and went home and had to stay there for an extended time. john actually followed her and

stayed there, too long according to his cabinet. who finally urged him to come back to philadelphia, and the capital. she tried to stay there for as much time as she could. again, her health caused her to be at home. she was quite ill. for close to a year. she was possibly close to death during that time. susan: how did he serve as chief executive from afar? c. james: this also happened during the vice presidency. when congress was needed, the -- meeting, the vice president would go back to where he lived. especially during the summer they would usually lead in the spring and come back in the fall. it was a seasonal thing. although he did overdo it a little bit during this time. it was not unusual for the president to be away. susan: these were very trying and tempestuous years for a brand new nation. can you give us a sense of the history, what was happening during the adams administration, key policy issues? c. james: the major problems

were international. we had problems with the french, the british, in particular with the french. american political parties were divided pro-french, pro-british. one of the things john was troubled with was keeping the country out of four. he was successful. i think that is probably the thing that he should be most recognized for during that time. edith: i also find it ironic that he is one president who kept us out of war, avoided war, because the united states would have collapsed. c. james: and people would have gone to war at the drop of a hat. edith: yes. he prevented that. it also subverted his career.