isil'current difficulties we face in the region and the fight against the terror group in iraq and syria. now we have seen the size of the religious minority communities decline dramatically in iraq and syria as a result of isil's onslaught. sister diana, i'll ask you. you felt the pain and the suffering of your own community and you've been witness to what isil has done to ancient religious communities of iraq. you have been displaced twice. can you describe for us the conditions in mosul where you were forced to flee to kurdistan? could you please also detail the conditions in kurdistan? lastly what more can we do to meet the needs of religious minority communities? where can we be most effective? >> thank you. i would answer your question in a story that touches my heart a lot and the heart of the people that we're working with.

when we were forced to leave we didn't orb our children became without any education, without school. so a congregation we care a lot about education as dominican. we start opening kindergartens. so we had 135 children in one of the kindergartens, we handed -- one of the classes we hand them papers to draw on the paper. amazingly, most of the children they draw back home their hometowns. they draw some their beds church homes, that they relate back home. when we asked them why did you do that? they said we miss home, we want to go back home. we want to live normal life. 5-year-olds, stood up and said i don't feel like i am home here. when i was home, i used to go to the kindergarten i used to go to church with my family. i used to play with my toys

with my friends. that was a normal life when we were back in our homes. we used to live normal life we have education, our parents brother, sisters if they are employed would go to work. now it's the opposite. people are jobless. women do not have any work to do. they are living in containers or unfinishes buildings, facing terrible conditions besides the humanitarian aid is not enough for them. it's so different that today even our children what i want to say, our children they feel that they don't have a place to live properly. they don't have home. so our life has changed tremendously. since before we were this is a bridge that we can connect among diversities now we felt we're alone, we're abandoned. that's how we feel. >> thank you very much,

mr. chairman. we know that isil doesn't discriminate. you're either with the terrorists or they will destroy you or subjugate you. >> thank you. mr. brad sherman from california. >> mr. chairman the two most powerful forces in the sear ran, iraq area are shiite alliance in iran, and the extremists sunnis on the other. we've seen our friends saudi arabia and others do is move towards what they'll accept as quote, moderate islam or acceptable islam, and embrace the brotherhood, turkey qatar, and perhaps ear alal nustra. had we did more in the process, saudi arabia would not be taking that action. the good news is that, reports in the last half hour that the

number two commander in isis has been killed. i hope that's true. we'll see. mr. chairman, you commented that isis has all of this iraqi currency. iraq, should of course issue new currency making its own currency invalid. many countries have done this. this is a process that is hated by corrupt poll significances politicians and drug dealers and of course the iraqi government has failed to do so which leads to possible conclusion perhaps corrupt politicians with huge stashes of cash have some power in baghdad. this congress passed the near east south central asia religious freedom act. that required that the state department have a special envoy for religious minorities in that region. we are still waiting for someone to be appointed. do not hold your breath.

the attitude of the administration toward following laws just because they are laws is less than i think it ought to be. speaking of laws passed by congress we authorized $1.6 billion in nada to counter isil think included authorization amened to include provisions for local security forces on the plane including syrian and yazidi forces some far that hasn't happened. and of course, communities that cannot cannot defend themselves are in a difficult circumstance on the plane. one of our witnesses has been unabash in support of the kurdish government, miss isaac. i had in my office yesterday representatives of the yazidi

syrian, and kurdish communities that took a very different view the kurdish government. perhaps a balance between the two is that the kurdish government provided sanctuary but not allowed these groups to form their own national guard battalions and no group on the plane will be safe unless they have their own national guard. mr. chairman, i would like to see us bring to it testify before this committee one of the yazidi women who have successfully fled from isis this would require the state department provide an entry visa and if the person and if the woman or girl was coming from kurdish areas we would need to get an exit visa from that government. >> mr. sherman? if i could interrupt for a minute. we did have a young yazidi woman, a young girl, slated to testify. she had to drop off of the trip

because of health reasons. >> ah. >> but we will achieve your goal here. i'll relinquish the time back to you. >> thank you. >> miss kabawat yazidis are giving the choice, convert die or be given an unfair tax. i put three in one category. something that muslim governments have imposed upon the minority communities for centuries and in prior centuries it has been a tax that was endurable, of course it's outrageous and unfair. is isis imposing a tax that is outrageous, unfair but is a practical thing that the

communities could pay, or is it just an excuse for them to say well, we want to confiscate everything on monday that's your monday tax. on tuesday you don't have anything left so we're going to kill you? is isis offering to allow at least christians the yazidis, of course, would be treated differently under their roles a chance to stay in their homes and pay a tax consistent with what is possible, of course it's outrageous? >> just talking about syria, where the isis has full control, most of the christian, there is not many christians now in the isis-control area. when there, they hide. they did say they're going -- they're asking for -- it

happened a few time but i think there's not many christians in this area, they're already gone. in other things, the christians now they're all in aleppo or others. they've been away. but where they are being now in where there is the moderate muslims control, they're not being asked for any because they treat them as equal citizen. >> i believe my time's expired. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. dana rohrabacher of california. >> thank you very much. let me identify myself with mr. sherman's point about the iraqi currency. we must get to the bottom of who the heck is paying for isis who, what -- what government is responsible for providing them money? whoever that is we need to make

sure we come down like a ton of bricks on that government. and we must make sure that is a high priority for this government to find out who's financing this sinful and this horrendous atrocity against the people of the world. whatever faith you are, whether you're islam or christian or whatever faith you are, this is an abomination to any belief in god. we must stand in unity with people of all faiths in this endesher. i endeavor. i want to thank chairman royce and engel who have the bipartisan nature, many of the challenges that we face and that standing together america, if nothing else, because we come from, you know, we are made up

of every race, religion and ethnic group in the world. we're supposed to be the one that sets the standard for the world, and we can do that by making sure we don't cozy up to people and remain friends with people who are financing this type of atrocity. i'd like to -- look, it's perplexing position because people are being murdered in this part of the world. your friends relatives, really, innocent, human beings are being savaged. should our focus be on trying to defeat and eliminate the evil forces that are at play or should it be to extract people from this danger zone to get them here? i wonder if any of you have any thoughts of than all of you, go right ahead.

>> mr. congressman i think the solution is to stop the conflict. we have a conflict in middle east, i'm talking about syria. we have a conflict. you're asking about who is paying isis they don't -- they took banks they took -- they steal. they -- they do everything they can to -- not to have to be depend enon anybody to get their money. we want to get rid of them we have to end the conflict. there is a conflict in syria, and people are suffering, and today we need to think about those civilians, how to stop their suffering. there are -- isis attacks every day, people are scared. i know many people there escaped, even if they're muslim they escape because isis will threaten their lives. we want to stop isis we need to

stop the conflict in syria. we need to stop the dictator. both are the enemies of the security and the safety and the future for syria. >> congressman rohrabacher, when i take a look at all of the religious minorities that i've met when i was in iraq and i look at their ancient history, you know that they belong there and they want to stay there. and if we try to get rid of the problem by just bringing the religious minorities here -- >> yes. >> -- isis will spread everywhere. it will continue. right now we have a diverse fabric in the middle east and it's really protecting not only the region but the entire world. the fact that there are christians and yazidis and jews in that region today makes the middle east what it is.

we need to look the bigger fight and understand that isis is against the entire world. their short-term plan right now is trying to get rid of the religious minorities of the region and creating their state. >> right. >> but tomorrow it's going it to be attack the entire world. >> i think that your point is well made and i just -- i know that sister diana had trouble even getting here. we should not be having barriers to people, especially coming here to make their case and to warn us. at the same time, i've got a few seconds left let heme say we need to make sure we are standing behind those people like our friends, the kurds, up in erbil who are making this stand. we can't -- we haven't solved that problem yet mr. chairman, where our supplies can go directly to the kurds some of them are now, but many of them we have to go through baghdad in

order to get the supplies there. we should be making sure anyone in that region who is fighting isis gets the full support and direct support from the people of the united states. you are in our thoughts and prayers. we know that you're -- these communities, i visited a community in syria. my wife and i actually went and said it was one of our most important experiences in our life where we said the lord's prayer as jesus spoke. hang tough. we're with you. >> brian higgins of new york. >> thank you mr. chairman. i want to thank the panel here. your testimony is both eloquent and compelling. i just want to focus on the christian community in the middle east. isis has declared war on christians. isis wants genocide now. they want to eradicate

christians from the middle east and africa. christian kids have been beheaded their mothers raped, and their fathers crucified literally. isis believes christians are standing in the way of their world conquest, anything pre-islamic they want to destroy and want to prepare the world for the coming of the islamic heldly fate. christians are losing communities that have lived peacefully for 2000 years. pa 5000,000 christians, christian arabs driven out of syria during the last three years of civil war. kissian christians have been persecuted and killed from lebanon to sudan, now south sudan. civil wars lasted decades. in iraq, mosul is a christian city, the second largest city in

iraq christians have been living there for 1700 years. as you know better than anybody. after the fall of saddam, the numbers in -- of christians in iraq were estimated to be about 45,000. sister today, how many christians are living in moesle? >> very few. only those held hostage there. we don't have the exact number. yet they are maybe a couple hundred or less. >> a hundred or less. most of those who have fled have moved up to kurdistan? >> first of all, they fled to my hometown, and -- >> where? >> it's -- which is close to mosul, about 20 minute distance southwest of mosul. >> west. >> yeah. after a week or so our displacement happened which never thought that would happen with a couple hours that we were

forced to leave which take -- it's about one-hour distance from my hometown to kurdistan. took us 11 hours to go there because some were marching some were driving. because it was a traumatic stage for us. i would say like very few christians have stayed in mosul or that they couldn't leave because they were asleep when that happened. >> is the hope of the christians from mosul who have been forced to flee to one day return? there yes. the message that i was given before i left they said to me i've been working every day with the idps -- that's what they call us, actually there -- they said to me sister just please tell the community, tell the members of the congress that help us to go back home we want

to go back home. >> what has been the position of prime minister abody relative to the christian community of iraq? you don't need to say. i get it. yeah. this is, you know, we were told, after al maliki who was a thug, left, that things would change that the new iraqi government would be inclusive of all minorities in communities. political stability is dependent on the ability to embrace the kurds, the shia, the sunni, but also the christian community of iraq. so that's not happening, clearly. and this is just one of many consequences of the failure to embrace the minority community. this is again the larger problem in the middle east.

it's a highly, highly pluralistic part of the world and unless and until you have minority rights you'll never have stability. a guy like al assad is a bad guy. but what's happening is minority groups have a tendency to gravitate to them for one reason, because if the majority, sunni, become head of the country, all of the minorityies will be slaughtered. so long as there is zero-sum game in the middle east, the sum will always be zero. and i often say in game theory, there's also what's referred tos a variable sum game saying there can be many winners. whatever we do there, however much humanitarian aid we provide there, however much military support we provide in the middle east internally, the leadership that we get behind the united states, the leadership that we

support, have to embrace, they have an obligation to embrace the minority community because we'll be sitting here five years from now, ten years from now, 20 years from now we'll be having the same discussion with no progress whatsoever. again, thank you very much for your testimony. i'll yield back. >> go now to mr. chris smith of new jersey. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. thank you for calling this very very important hearing and our distinguished witnesses for your courage, for so effectively articulating the plight of these suffering minorities in the middle east, particularly christians. thank you for that. and all of those who are suffering at the hands of isis and people who are extremists. you know, i would like to ask a couple of questions. the human rights commission pointed out that the isis violence against christians and other religious minorities quote may constitute genocide. may? i find it extraordinary, you

know, the genocide convention couldn't be clearer. eliminating in whole or in part even the threat rises to the level of being genocide. and of course international community has always been slow to genocide. we didn't do it in -- when it came to sudan 100 years later, we still, only 24 or so countries have recognized the armenian genocide. we seem to gag on the word, and i have tried to get administration witnesses to say what is happening to the christians rises to the level of genocide and that simply is not stated. congresswoman, chairwoman emeritus have chaired a number of hearings on the goen know side. -- genocide attacks against christians and others in iraq.

gone we get this, well we'll look into it we'll get back but say it say it clearly and un unambiguously. i have chaired 14 hearings on the suffering of christians particularly in the middle east, and we're still getting, you know a lack of embrace of the magnitude and the hostility towards people of the christian faith. sometimes past is prologue. the clinton administration opposed the international act. he ended up signing it but now we find under this administration the post of ambassador at large was idle, left vacant for half of his presidency. we have a very good man in that position trying to make up i think for lost time. but it was a revelation of priorities that we did not have a person sitting in that very important position. approximately seven months ago

legislation passed totally bipartisan, to establish a special envoy for religious minorities in the middle east and south central asia. no secret the administration didn't want it. but he did sign it. the president did sign it into law when passed in a bipartisan way. but now for seven months nobody has been selected to take that position. that person should have the ear of the president and could shutting back and forth and assess what's go on on the ground with clarity and to speak out boldly. nobody has that position. i find that appalling. you might want to comment on that as well. finally, let me ask you the faith of the young people has to have been -- i know we saw that wonderful video of the resiliency of the young women. but the faith of the young people has to be shattered. you know they must wonder where are the faithful elsewhere, particularly in the united

states i don't think we've done enough. again, special envoy vacancy speaks volumes to that. but if i could ask you where is the faith of these young people? >> the matter of fact mr. smith is that our faith, it's amazing that we see it's increasing more and more. it it's making us more stronger. we left churches that were like used to be filled with people. now we have only one church and you see like young people, all people see that we still have faith in god, that we are -- we were displaced yet we feel that the hand of god is still with us. so in the midst of, as my colleague said, in the midst of this darkness, this suffering we see a god that is holding us holding us, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to be witnessing to our faith that's

increasing day after day. i think this is one of the gifts of the holy spirit giving us the strength to continue our faith and to be strong, to stay in our country, some left, yes, but they are willing to come back when we go back home, and we have this hope someday we'll go back home. and that will come through your help. >> mr. congressman, the face with the christian community in da plas cuss ismascus is increasing. we're christian 2000 year. my family christian the last 2000 years. today we're more involved in humanitarian work. we know we are to lead by example. this is our christianity, to help others. that's why my family today still in damascus. my immediate family in damascus but their faith is to pray for the poor take care of others

because this is what jesus christ told us take care of the small people. in aleppo, churches are open to like hospitals. when they liberated, the christian work with the muslim in hoounumanitarian issues. yes, we're christians but today, more than ever, we're christians because we know that we need to practice our christianity on the ground and to take care of the small people who are suffering. >> congressman smith, i went to egypt and i met the families 15 of the 21 families that were -- had victims slaughtered in libya. i was astonished by their faith. as a fellow christian i thought, how would i be if i was in the situation today? meeting the fathers, said to me, thank god that today they're in

heaven. thank god, a wife talking to me about how her husband had said, i'm going to libya, and i will be in danger but if i don't make it teach my children teach them the principles of jesus christ. these are the cans of their faith. i've seen it in iraq across the board, how christians and standing strong and helping all helping the yazidis. we had a indicatecase, there was a group of yazidis that found a local church, and that church was providing care for them providing a home for them. this is what they're doing. they're struggling but giving everything that they have. so thank you. >> we go to mr. william keating of massachusetts. >> thank you, mr. chairman for holding this hearing. thank you, as witnesses. i want to let you know we all share your commitment to saving living, saving religious and

cultural heritages and artifacts, and stopping human trafficking. i want to acknowledge, as dr. hanson has, the legislation of chairman royce, ranking member engel mr. smith who i'm proud to join, in working on this area. but i want to focus on one thing. i believe that we can do more of in the u.s. to stop this terrible -- these terrible actions by isil. and that's to look at an issue that time and time again has come to my attention as ranging member on terrorism trade and nonproliferation, and this committee as well as counterterrorism and homeland security and that's the issue where isil is not only destroying cultural and religious heritages, particularly in iraq and syria, but it's doubling down on that

activity, either through tax criminals or themselves, they're trafficking in these looted antiquities and financing their own terrorist operations again. so it becomes cyclical. and i saw firsthand i just came back days ago, visiting eight countries in the middle east and europe how this is occurring and in fact had comments from the leaders in these areas how smuggling in these antiquities is such a force of financing these terrorists. so what i am doing today as well as introducing legislation to prevent trafficking and cultural property act, the name of legislation, it's geared in on one aspect i think we can ease lil move to thwart these activities and that's the fact that even the agencies themselves in customs and board

patrol and in i.c. they're not as coordinated they don't have the tools to gear in on this when these artifacts and trafficking when the trafficking comes through our own border on the u.s. one of the things we have to do i believe wit the legislation does, to work to make sure there's principal leadership there, a designated person to really key in on this. and also importantly to have the training in this activity, because even if that commitment and coordination is there, it's important that these u.s. officials receive sufficient training and identifying cultural property from regions at the greatest risk of looting like iraq, syria, they know the techniques specifically related to this so they can investigate and prosecute this activity to really quell the demand. one of the destinations of the world, the united states of america. so, we're working on that.

i would like your opinion on how from your perspective this could be helpful as well. and i think particularly dr. hanson has some experience in that regard. >> thank you. what you mentioned is incredibly important and it is vital that we remove the financial incentive for terrorist groups like isis to loot cultural sites, religious sites. one of the things we've noticed is that prior to the demolition of religious sites particularly shrines, yazidi shrines and tombs, isis has gone in in advance and looted artifacts out of that area. architectural elements things they can sell. the reason why they're doing looting in those instances and also in the images we saw, is that there's a market for it. and your legislation and what you mentioned is incredibly important in taking action to

reduce that market. right now it's crucial that we get import restrictions on stolen material from syria put into place in the u.s., as a market country our demand for that in the u.s. is some of what fuels isis' actions. >> yeah. i was really intrigued when isis -- it showed the videos of their desecrating these religious institutions and sending those videos to the world and saying they're doing it because of a sense of pureness and they're -- they're narrow if you call it religious beliefs -- should be the only beliefs. yet if these artifacts they're destroying so no one else will be able to culturally go forth, if they're portable they're moving them around and profiting on them and preserving them to fuel their on terrorism which shows where their priorities

respect quickly, kneel thetell me the scope of this. i heard it's in the tens of millions of dollars that getting from this and that's underreported. pretty hard to get a figure on. quickly, last question. >> very difficult to get a dollar amount on it. we know that it's significant as you saw, those are moon scapes now and all of those artifacts that come out of the ground can get financial benefits for them. you have to assume the lowest estimates have to be staggering. i can't give you an exact dollar amount and that's something that we're continuing to research and work on. >> i heard $37 million. i yield back mr. chairman. >> mr. scott perry of pennsylvania. >> thank you mr. chairman. ladies, appreciate you being here. you know the stories are shocking to our conscience americans need to have their

conscience unfortunately continue to be shocked because of what continues to happen. but the stories break our hearts. not much else to say than that. dr. hanson we've seen isis crucify in public squares stone to death women throw gay people off of buildings and proudly tweet, post these horrific acts on youtube, other social media. in fact they've gained followers based on the use of social media. the question is has isis' propaganda campaign affected the disposition of religious minority communities beyond iraq and syria? and what effective action would you recommend the united states to combat isis, the propaganda especially on social media? have you researched that, and what are your recommendations? >> my research doesn't directly encompass social media. one of the things that we have noticed in working with the cultural heritage destruction

and the religious heritage destruction is that the videos are clearly designed to demonstrate power and demonstrate terror. right now we have an nsf grant to study what's happening with damage -- with phenomenon of damage to cultural heritage and why it's occurring and we're working on answering some very basic questions, like when does cultural heritage damage take place? is it before or after the religious minority population is physically threatened and murdered? when it comes to social media, what is happening with the videos is exactly the same thing that's happening with the videos of deaths and destructions. the cultural heritage site rbzing destroyed in a way to demonstrate power and terror. >> we'll wait to hear back from you based on the grant, if you have any recommendations. i'd like to turn to --

correction -- miss kabawat, is that right? we've been told by the administration that the u.s. government is examining all -- i emphasize all -- viable options for detecting minority vulnerable communities and halting the parade of atrocities isis is committing what happen do you view? you lived there on the ground. what is the viable options for the u.s. to protect these communities, if there are any? >> again mr. congressman, i feel on the ground when they hear this kind of comment, the people get little bit disappointed and angry. we can't protect one minority without thinking about what happens happening to the whole country. we're talking about thousand of refugees, of christians but also there is millions of sunnis and they're paying the price from isis. so, the solution will be a

package. we don't want to be isolated from the other syrian who we have been raised and lived with them all our lives. i want a solution not only for the minority i want a solution for whole syria. we need to stop the conflict. so when we say we want to protect us it's offending me because i don't want to be protected when my other neighbors, sunni, has been unattack. so please protect the whole civilian. we have so many moderate muslim, christians, we live together all our lives. so if you want to protect us, as a christian, i'm asking you protect also my neighbors. thank you. >> sister diana do you think that the isis targeting of minority communities in areas has primarily been due to strategic opportunity, because you're there and it's easy,

you're vulnerable, or is there something more deliberate? i mean, would you articulate if it's one or the other or a combination of the two? >> as i mentioned earlier mr. congressman it was quite shock for us because we used to watch the news on tv that isis took over mosul, but we never thought someday in a few hours we'll be out of our homes left with nothing at all. i, myself only with my habit and my purse which i was lucky i had my passport in it. most of my sisters and people left with no documents, nothing. so it start with the plane and it was a gradually. if it was deliberately or not i can't say that but all what i know now we were driven out of our homes within a couple hours, that was. without any warning.

>> my time's expired. thank you. >> we go now to mr. david sis leaney of rhode island. >> thank you for calling this hearing. thank you to our witnesses for your courageous testimony and the description of the horrors and the violence and the sadistic behavior of this terrorist organization, i hope is something that the whole world understands better as a result of your being here today significant personal risks yourself and the work that you're doing. thank you for being here. as my colleague from massachusetts said, i think our whole committee's committed to doing everything that we can to support the preservation of cultural and religious site. but more importantly in my view to do all that we can to protect and save lives. this effort to destroy cultural and religious sites i think is clearly an extension of the terrorist effort to eliminate

entire religious communities in this region, something we have to respond to in the strongest terms. my first question is, i know there are religious minorities, christians yazidis faced terrible persecution and have fled their ancient homelands. but they're aunable unable to cross the border so they're technically refugees, they're internally displaced persons. these are vulnerable population what happens can the united states be doing bettor help these communities that are trapped in very unsafe locations be in a safer place and provide some protection, these internally displaced what i would call refugees even though they're not technically refugees because they haven't left the border of their oner own country, anyone in. >> mr. congressman, when i went to northern iraq and i met the kurdish -- the kurdistan

regional government, i was amazed the work they've done. not because of meetings i went to but because of the ground. i went and saw the girls kidnapped and raped by isis for exampling and i saw the care they were getting. yes, the kurdistan regional government doesn't have a lot of resources but they're still doing everything that they can to make yazidis like the girls that we met christians and all other religious minorities feel like an equal. in fact, a lot of these workers have been unpaid for months at a time to give everything that they have to these religious minorities, shows that they are truly a safe haven. i've never seen a people like the kurdish people because they have gone through their own atrocities so many times, they understand what it's like to be a religious minority fleeing. so i say the solution is to support, number one, the

peshmerga army who is the ones on the front lines and boots on the ground let's help them as they fight this war let's support them in any way. help the kurdistan government providing providing humanitarian assistance with psychological care. when i was in jordan, i remember a little boy and u.n. secretary-general bondan ki-moon flown over and said, do you see that helicopter? i said, yeah. he said i hope to god it bombs jordan. i was shocked. i said why would you say something like that? because it happened to me. it has to happen to everyone else. a lot of the children that are coming in to these territories have seen so much destruction and trauma and they don't how to how to deal with it. in order to protect the world we need to focus on the new generation and how do we do that? by supporting the kurdistan

regional government as they work on not just the medical care but that psychological element as well. and of course the support of the partners like egypt and jordan, also bringing in refugees and taking care of their people. in egypt alone, they're educating 14,000 college students from syria. and thousands of, about 40,000 students in elementary schools are being taken care of. let's support them on the ground. >> i was just in jordan and saw at border and the syrian borden the incredible work of the jordanians, you know supporting over 1.5 million refugees fleeing syria. we have to be sure that we continue to support that. miss kabawat? >> again mr. congressman, i emphasize about the solution of the protected zone. we need it. i've been also in jordan last month. it's so important to start thinking about this. we need to get the civilian in a

safe way, in a safe area that can be protected from the isis and from the bomb of the syrian regimes. we need it. this will give better position for turkey and jordan so they can take care of other things. we thanks to the american for all of the humanitarian aid they're give together syrian people. we appreciate it. we know that you're doing a lot. but they really need to be in a safe zone. so i really asking you and seeking this it's so important. thank you. >> mr. chairman, if i might ask indull against for one final quep i question. the role of the current iraqi government, you know, there are many people who argue that isis is an outgrowth of policies from iraqi and syrian governments that have marginalized sunnis in particular. what do we need to see from the current iraqi government or a future syrian government to demonstrate the tolerance and inclusiveness that will prevent this kind of violence?

should the united states be doing more to condition some of our support for the iraqi government on their commitment to take certain steps to protect minority populations and bill a more inclusive government? i mean that's -- you know the syrian solution is the long-term answer. but in this interim period, can we be doing more to demand more of the current iraqi government? >> mr. congressman, i think it's very important to do such things previous to your question i mean, we are known as idps. we will be like that forever if we don't return home. so if there is efforts from both parts to help us to return home i think that will be the solution. with your help, you know. so that will give us a better life. otherwise there will be no education and it's not about the education and health care because that won't happen when

you're an idp. you don't have an identity or any entity there. our entity is back where we belong. so i think there are efforts from both parts to return home, there where we can start to rebuild, there where we can start all over again. thank you. >> regarding syria and you're talking about long-term, we need to think about a few things. first, we need a transition not to destroy the institutions. and this is -- will happen only if we have a political solution. we need to pressure the regime to come to the negotiation table and make a -- we need a transition and we need to include everybody. and everything will be good if we can end it within a political solutions. this is a long term and this is the best way to protect minorities, to save the

institutions, and have a transitions government include everybody. >> thank you. >> if i could inject here. you're suggesting to get there you need no-fly zone, safe zone over aleppo and the other areas where in aleppo for example the business community, the sunni and christian and alawite business community is trying to hole out there, but they have isis on the front line but then intermittently the barrel bombs and the chemical attacks occur from the assad regime which are dropped on the city that's trying to trying to hold out against isis so you're saying you believe if there was a no-fly zone there and there was a prohibition from

the dropping of the barrel bombs that would help civil society take a foothold there and could you explain that thinking to me? >> sure. i did witness the barrel bomb when i was in aleppo, and it's very, very hard for the civil society to grow went there's a -- an immediate threat to your life. yes, i'm not a military expert but i believe that we need to stop the bombs. this is a first step for the community, for everybody. >> you think also that in doing that, it helps drive a -- >> the civil -- >> an impetus for a settlement? >> exactly. >> because then they can see that the society can't be overrun there? >> and we did there is so many example before from the local council they could run the community, and they can include the christians.

>> i've note tisdices i've seen christian female battalions among the free syrian force there, as well as sunni and you know, i've talked to alawite business community alouite supporting the effort there in aleppo to hold on. >> we need to have a safe place for this community. once we start the barrel bombs then support the oppositions in all the way we can, we get an example in other local -- as a witness, they knew that i'm christian and been working with the civil society and i know in syria what you see in sectarian zone now, it's a reaction because of all that happened. but in the end of the day, in the community we live together, the minute that the toll will stop, the syrian people can

continue to live and live together. >> thank you. i want to thank all of the witnesses for moving and insightful testimony here today. isis is in fact conducting a war against religious minorities against tolerance and as you shared against civilization. an i want to thank our panelists for bringing the voice of persecuted, the voice of the christian yazidis and others here today and the committee has long been focused on the robust -- humanitarian response and legislation that we have on the florida house thank you for supporting that legislation today. and i think your appeals for safe zones longer to returned to

your homes has given us new facts to consider and now i think to consider with an indelible human face. so sister thank you and to all of the panelists, thank you very much for being with us. we stand adjourned.

>> a reminder if you miss any of this hearing you can watch at any time in our video library at cspan.org. we'll be back on capitol hill for a hearing on border security

with officials from the u.s. customs and border protection agency. they'll be testifying before the senate homeland security committee live at 2:00 p.m. eastern right here on c-span3. the death toll stands at six but it's expected to rise from the amtrak train derail. in philadelphia that took place jucht after 9:30. the associated press writing that federal investigators arrived today to determine why that train jumped the tracks. in a wreck that killed six people and injured dozens and plunged screaming passengers into darkness and chaos. mayor nutter said some of the 238 passengers remain unaccounted for. the accident closed the busiest rail car dor between new york and washington, d.c. as federal investigators from the safety board arrived to begin examining the twisted wreckage today. the tracks and signals also. amtrak said the cause of the derailment was unknown. reaction from capitol hill to last night's accident, minority leader nabcy pelosi

said in part, this is a tragedy that hits close to home for many here in d.c. along a familiar route for members of kopg traveling to and from washington. we must have a thorough investigation and assessment of what went wrong and i'm pleased the ntsb deployed teams. the railroad subcommittee bill shuster and jack denman write, we're saddened by the tragic accident last night. both the national transportation safety board and federal railroad administration are on the scene. we don't know many details, we need to know how this happens and ensure the safety of the system and millions of americans who rely on the northeast corridor. >> this sunday night at 8:00 eastern, we'll live into the personal lives of three first ladies emily donaldson and ank

elke van buren. died of an apparent heart attack before he took office. his niece, emily donaldson becomes the hostess but later dismissed as fallout from a scandal. when van buren becomes president, his daughter is the white house hostest. rachel jackson and angelica van buren on first ladies, examining the public and private lives of women who fill the position of first lady and impact on the residencey residency. sundays at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. as a compliment to the series, c-span's new book is now available, first ladies, presidential historians on the lives of 45 iconic american women, providing lively stories

of the fascinating story an illuminating and entertaining and inspiring read. it's available as a hard cover or an ebook through your favorite bookstore or online book sellers. this past monday, bloomberg government hosted a summit focusing on infrastructure investment and notable speakers richard trumka and ed rendell and harvard business school professor, kantener, it is set to expire on may 331st. this is just under two hours. >> good morning, i head the govern affairs business here. i would like to welcome you and

thank you for attend today's america on the move session, part of the kickoff of infrastructure week. please feel free to keep engaged throughout the day using the #egov build. our mission here is about giving washington decision makers the tools they need to do their jobs better. with dozens of bills interest dugsed in this new congress this is a topic our customers need to know a lot about. but just as important, an issue that impacts everybody in this room and fellow citizens across the country. that's why we're proud to have hosted several events in this space in partnership with friends, one of the steering committee members for restructure week throughout the past 18 months. we're proud to be hosting today's event in collaboration with the entire steering committee for infrastructure week. i spent the weekend reflecting i found myself thinking about london because city i lived in

part-time and full-time for most of the part 15 years. the huge and sustained infrastructure investment that i witnessed there first hand is nothing short of amazing, particularly in such a short period of time. in that time i watch things like the heath row express, much better than sitting in the grand central parkway heading to laguardia or jfk. i wauxed the london overground and enormous scale of cross rail which will revolutionize the way people get east to west across the city of london and stunning renovations of every major train station in the country. one city in 15 years when there's political will and sustained investment we can make great progress. of course, we're focused on u.s. infrastructure and we have a great panel set up for you throughout the day. we'll be hearing from ceos and members of labor and business and infrastructure experts and

of course shortly from secretary anthony fox who is joining us for the second time in two weeks to talk about infrastructure and third time in this office. welcome back, mr. secretary. and of course, later we'll be hearing from arguably amtrak's biggest fan, vice president joe biden. before i hand things over to my colleague and moderator for the first panel, i would like to ask our friend and partner jay timen timens. he'll be introducing our first speaker. thanks for joining us and hope to get to meet many of you today. >> thank you, very much josh, appreciate that kind of introduction and for bringing us together this morning to kick off a week where we aim to draw attention to a crisis, to motivate lawmakers to act and

galvanize support for 21st century infrastructure that manufacturers and indeed all americans need. they need this we need this to compete in the global committee and mantle of economic leadership for the future. i want to give a special shoutout and introduce him in just a moment to secretary anthony fox. not only for being with us today but for also to continuing to relent relentlessly fight for the infrainstruct stur challenges i have to tell you this guy never stops and manufacturers are grateful for his leadership. for america to stop resting on a legacy of past investments and making how we move commerce a priority again. governor ed rendell my good friend, eric speegle, the president and ceo, and paul

uros, the president of hntb companies. it's terrific to see so many members as part of this effort and program including the ceo of snitser steel industries and also the chairman of the united states chamber of commerce board of directors. she'll be part of the 10:30 panel this morning. infrastructure week is organized by a core steering committee of leading business, labor and policy groups. traditional and nontraditional allies as well. focused on the broad competitiveness implications of infrastructure investment and the aflcio and brookings institution's metropolitan policy program the american society of civil engineers and building america's future.

>> over the last year, transformed from a handful of events planned by a small group of organizations into a nationwide initiative. this week more than 80 affiliated 140 events from alaska and washington, d.c. and everywhere in between. scores of mayors and state legislators are raising this issue with their constituents and their members of congress. business executives and labor leaders from sectors as broad as manufacturing, finance, and the service sector are bringing their stories to the nation's leadership and we'll hear from the highest elected and federal agency officials throughout the week on federal actions to repair and modernize our aging infrastructure. ladies and gentlemen the timing could not be more appropriate. 20 days. 20 days, that's all that

separates us from a highway shutdown unless congress extends other tran sit programs. another short term extension will be the -- get this the 33rd time in just six years that congress failed when fees phased with the need to take decisive action to rebuild our future and renew our promise. i think we can all agree that this is unacceptable and unworthy of our country, created on infrastructure systems that empower us to achieve the greatest period of prosperity in history. congress will likely come up with temporary patchwork once again, we must insist on more. do we want america to be yesterday's story or do we want it to be tomorrow's?

we need a well funded multiyear surface transportation authorization and we need it now. that's why your voices are absolutely essential to educate lawmakers and to build momentum and to move us forward. beyond just the measures of today but move us forward for solutions for a better tomorrow. whether it's an engineer at a plant in baton rouge or welding on a shop floor in peoria or researcher in a lab in pittsburgh, the more than 12 million men and women who make a living in manufacturing and indeed all americans are counting on this progress. i know secretary fox is counting on that as well and he's strongly committed to upgrading our ports and runways and restoring our roads and railways to build -- rebuild america. secretary fox is impressed both

republicans and democrats with the ten ascy and improving the transportation system and distinct pleasure to welcome him here today ladies and gentlemen, i give you the united states secretary of transportation anthony fox. [ applause ] >> it's great to be here, beginning of infrastructure week to see so many great stake holders here and jay timmons and entire group here for hosting this incredible week. a week that brings together the u.s. chamber of commerce and national association of manufacturers as well as aflcio and non-profits like the build america's future and brookings

and american society of civil engineers. they are all incredible partners to what we do. so i was thinking about what i might say today how i would try to talk about this subject with perhaps a fresh lens. then this morning i was watching espn and i saw that in a basketball game yesterday the clock was running down and lebron james got a shot with less than a second left and nailed it and team won and everybody was excited except the folks in chicago gosh, i wish we had the equivalent of lebron james when it comes to making

the kind of courageous stands when it comes to moving infrastructure forward. alas he plays basketball, not in congress. from the standpoint of the facts we know we know that for instance the american society of civil engineers found that service transportation investment needs to grow by a trillion dollars by 2020. he recently completed a draft study called beyond traffic that found that we're not investing enough to keep the infrastructure together. ceo cited the current levels of transportation funding are still following $11 billion short of

maintaining the system we have it would be one thing if we were a static country but consider the fact over the next 30 years we're going to have 70 million more people competing for the same road space and rail space and transit space and problems are going to get harder and congestion is going to get worse if we don't do something dramatic and do it quickly. we already know for example that instead of investing more, we have six states that announce they are pulling back almost $2 billion of privates states like tennessee, georgia delaware arkansas few others.

i have to tell you as a former mayor, there is an even deeper level of pulling back that you're seeing that's invisible you can't quantify it but let me tell you how it plays out. you have a big multiyear project that will transform your city or your state. it's going to cost multiple billion dollars to do. money has to come in over several years. you've got a plan that you have to get through, an environmental process and you have to spend in some cases tens of millions some cases hundreds of millions of dollars to get through the first phase. let me tell you those big transformative projects are not being done. they are not being planned. so we're not even in a position

today to turn on the light switch and go big as a country. because we've been through 30 full-time extensions so much uncertainly at the federal level that it is crippling our system. i didn't come here to kick off infrastructure week to sound dire or dour, better word. i came to sound committed and focused on the solutions. the president and i have introduced a solution, it's called the grow america act. it is a six-year bill. the size of it is $478 billion and it would transform our nation's infrastructure. it's a bill that would put $317 billion in our highway system over six years 29% increase.

$115 billion in our transit systems, 76% increase. and it would also include rail inner city passenger rail as part of the trust fund. so that we can build america's service system one year, one brick, one piece of steel one train at a time and keep it coming to keep it moving for multiple years. you say well that sounds good but how are you going to pay for it? well, here's how we pay for it. we pay it through progrowth business tax reform. it's a way we could tax untaxed corporate earnings 1 to $2 trillion of those proceedings are sitting over there now. apply 14% tax rate and that generates the amount of money we need to go forward. we have an idea on the table and the way we pay for it and

suggest isn't all together different than some republican ideas you've seen come up in recent years, including the proposal last year put forward and there is an accountive conversation on capitol hill about how to move forward. and yet while we continue to work on this long-term approach we're 20 days away from running out not only running out of the last extension but running out of or ability as a department to use the little bit of money we do have to support our nation's infra infra infrastructure infrastructure. this is worse than last summer in that respect. if this extension goes without being pushed forward in some way, we will not have the ability to spend the dollars we do have to support this nation's infrastructure. it is that serious. so let me just say this at the end of the day, i think while we're all here it's because we

recognize that in some ways this is not a rational argument not a rational debate we're having. we know we have big infrastructure needs and big maintenance needs and know we have a need to go big as a country. it's not the facts in the way it's the resolve. so we come together here and try to rally the country to understand that we have a future in this country that we can build and choose for ourselves and have a default future that will be far worse. if i were to suggest to you the two or three things we ought to focus on it is focusing on growing the amount of investment we're making in the infrastructure. i hear people saying let's get the highway state fund stabilized but just stabilizing the trust fund is not an outcome. it's a math problem.

it doesn't address the maintenance needs we have and doesn't address the needs we have to expand and build new infrastructure. so we need a vision that points towards substantial growth not flat funding, not funding plus inflation, but funding that moves the dial forward. secondly, we need to think about policy changes that give our country national goals again. if we ask the american people to put more in infrastructure, we need to show them something different, better. we need a national freight strategy that's funded that will will help us more commerce better than we do today. we need to have the ability for these large growing mega regions to make some of the transportation decisions that make and implement on their own.

grow america provides for that. we need to stream line our permitting system so that we're getting projects done faster and it can be done without jeopardizing the environment and also better results and better outcomes at a lower cost. these ideas are contained in the grow america act. they are ideas that can move the country going forward. let's not let this discussion just be about getting the highway trust fund stabilized. let's push harder than that. let's not just let it be about the dollars. let's make it also about the policies that support those dollars so that the american people get the kind of system they deserve. i say all the time my job, my whole job is to make sure america's infrastructure is as good as the american people. if we all do that, we're going to make this country great. thank you so much.

[ applause ] >> i would like to welcome the next sample or first panel up to the stage right now. eric speegle, paul urosi and governor ed rendell everyone knows. my takeaway from the secretary's comments i believe were lebron james will soon be running for the 11th district seat in ohio and will need a position on tni meetly at which point he will change the world. jumping off a little bit of the secretary's comments, there's not a lot of people in the room that disagree about what's needed and not a lot that disagree from another headline from the events a couple of days that the current state of play is embarrassing in terms of u.s. infrastructure as it currently stands. on this panel with these three distinguished gentleman to my

left, we'll get into all of that with questions in the last 15 or 20 minutes. i want to put them on the spot early. one of the goals is to talk about the future some optimism in the midst of pessimism when it comes to u.s. infrastructure. if you could quickly, what's one policy technology, thing that you're seeing in your business or in your travels on a regular basis that is most exciting to you when it comes to change from the future? governor, i'll start with you. >> as a republican -- [ inaudible ]

>> why can't we do the right thing? >> i was going to say that the one thing has happened from a policy standpoint that i see as really important is that when you bring transportation down to the local level it gets funded all the time. i don't remember the exact number but 67% of ballot measures that increase funding in the last election were passed in the state level. that has to be raised up to the federal level with the understanding that a national system of transportation is what's really required. i see that people are starting to understand that, that even though they can take care of their local problems, this system is really important. that's exciting to me. >> yeah, i think the most exciting thing is that cities get it. we have a large employee base in

this country and a lot of businesses that serve infrastructure and also have a large manufacturing base, when i go out and visit mayors in cities, they get the feeling they need better mobility whether it's light rail or buses or roads or whatever and they are spending -- finding ways to get the money and also understand the need for a more intelligent infrastructure, smarter buildings and street automason to release congestion and save energy, et cetera. i think that's really exciting. we need more of that action at the state level and more at the federal level. cities get it and to me that's where the action is. >> go down to the states and cities, start with federal. you mentioned what you've seen in red states, out with a joint study showing on the city level, salt lake city louisville as well, the real impact of infrastructure upgrades both on

jobs and in return on investment. the case studies are there, the statistics appear to be there. what's the gap when it comes to federal side of things that you have seen? >> grover nor quist, paralyzed the town. everyone thinks the problem is political partisanship. but the problem is nobody has courage anymore because they are afraid to raise their hand. if we had a secret ballot on raising the gas tax it would pass with 385 votes in the house and 85 votes in the senate. we don't have a secret ballot and it takes pushing that button or raising that hand and going online for a revenue increase, good god, what's wrong? my first year as governor i raised second largest tax increase in pennsylvania's history and got re ee-elected by a 21% margin in a decidedly purple state. if you give something to people in return raising revenue

they'll support you it's proven, the statute you just quoted is actually 74 in the lst election. difference, ballot initiatives are keep to specific projects and raising the sales tax a half penny so we can revitalize the port of charleston passes overwhelmingly because the people understand their economy is going to -- the money goes into that big black hole of government and we demonize government so badly that the public doesn't really get it entirely and no one has the guts to do the right thing almost no one. you told me before when we're 20 days from the cliff, that's when you find yourself in washington and talking to lawmakers. what's the response you get from lawmakers? >> i'll honestly say the

response this time around is better but that doesn't turn into action. it's hard to find some ideas against funding transportation and it's hard to find someone who knows a way to do it other than the way we've been doing it for 50 or more years. we've been debating changing funding for transportation for governor you're involved probably more than five years. and haven't come up with a better way. it's what the government said it's going to take courage. but it's time to use that courage and do it. i just want to say something about your original question, just quickly. part of the real issue with the federal bureau is a lack of knowledge of what it really is. what we're really talking about. i find when i go around a lot. let's talk about devolume lugs,

the last study shows that the average state without increase gas tax 26 cents to make up for the federal program. federal program pays about 52% of all surface transportation, back out to the states, that's 52% of the program. the other thing is how much it cost. pick a number. if you have -- if you drive 20,000 miles and get 20 miles a gallon, it will cost you $150 a year for a 15 cent gas increase. i'm not going to say that's a small amount of money to a large amount of money but when you think about jobs and what it can do for this country, it's less than $3 a week it's not this huge drain on the economy that we hear about all the time. >> the point is on the state and

local level people trust money is being utilized why not send it back? even if it is a 10 or 15 cent increase, aren't we all saying this is more -- >> washington loves devolution. in you devofl the existing pool of money in the states maybe states would do it but we've learned that in social programs and we've learned that across the board. >> just recently, it dntd work 50 years ago, before we had the national highway bill and won't work now. we need a national system of highways, we're a nation. we have to be timed together just a part of being globally competitive and being resilience jent and part of the quality of life. we can't have 50 different transportation systems which you're saying you want to have when you devolve.

>> you work in a lot of different injure jurisdictions, there's a impact on the way the business is operating compared to perhaps other places where you guys are based? >> the infrastructure in the country has been deteriorating and definitely affects investment decisions when a company like us look at making investments. you look at a lot of things, you want to be close to big markets and u.s. say big market. and have skilled labor. you want to take a look at places to drive innovation and have r and d and the u.s. is probably leading country in the world and infrastructure, not just for moving products around the country but for exporting products and that's where we start to find to -- find real flaws in the u.s. economy. when i go talk to people on the hill, i talk about a growth story, with the economic

development research group picked two cities, salt lake, put a light rail system in and hundreds of millions of dollars of growth and hundreds of jobs created based on that and louisville and kentucky in terms of investment in smart building technologies and lots of investment in that area, around that area lots of job growth and lots of economic value created. we use those cases to explain infra infrastructure is a growth story. that's something that -- over time you're going to recoup the money because you'll be a lot more investment and growth and et cetera. the folkcus here is on spending as opposed to growth. >> are there places right now where your company is looking where localities are making investments or trying new things perhaps, that you are either close to or in the process of investing in purely because of how they've set up

themselves infrastructurewise? >> when we do start to think about about, we spend time in the state and city in charlotte, we built a large gas turbine facility. they had an old retired rail spur. we said, look this plant is being built for the u.s. market but as a global export market. we need to have that rail spur reconnected. you've got to spend money. often times we have roads that need rebuilt and revamped. same thing where we build wind facilities, rail spurs built retired or weren't there or road ramps built. before you commit to making an investment it's not just about tax breaks and it's not just about the labor pool it's about can i get infrastructure i need to -- otherwise you can't compete globally. i think there's no doubt as i go

to other companies on the margin, we are losing investment because of our infrastructure. >> governor you've been the chief executive of a state. talk to me about what's it's like as you're competing to get folks into your state and infrastructure as an issue. >> when i was governor i put money for economic development. if a company needed a rail spur to attach to one of the short lines and it would cost $4 million, state would pay the $4 million. the company would move in 220 manufacturing jobs bingo. simon properties want to build a life center in butler county but needed an access road off the turnpike. we built the access road for

$150150$10 million and got jobs. our sagging infrastructure is killing us. take the panama, they don't want to unload in california because it's costly to ship across the u.s. and through the canal up the northeast coast and unload goods in the northeast of the 12 major northeast ports that stretch from miami up to boston of our 12 major ports, only 12 are dredged sufficiently to take those ships. so at least for the time being most ships will dislodge cargo in canada, costing us tens and thousands of long shoremen job and trucker jobs. what do those jobs have in common? high paying middle class jobs.

70,000, $80,000 a year jobs. so are manufacturing jobs in the steel plants and so are jobs on bridges, building trades jobs 50,000, 60,000 all of the politicians talk about middle class jobs but in the end they don't do anything to spur middle class jobs. i wanted to revive the american economy and decree alt middle class jobs and wage growth, put $200 billion a year in addition to what we're spending now into infrastructure or revitalization programs, electric grid, broadband, you name it. repair the american infrastructure for ten years most of the countries of long term infrastructure repair programs and that would create 4 and 5 million well paying middle class jobs for the next decade, we ought to be doing that. >> one thing i would like to add

as we move forward to think about infrastructure there's numbers like backlog of $3.6 trillion. maybe we won't get all of the money, we need to be more strategic to determine how we use the money there's a tendency to peanut butter the money across all locations and all states. where you have an opportunity to get an investment, private investment public investment it's going to create jobs and going to help the city and state whatever, that's where the money ought to be put. that's where i see a lot of companies concerned, they come in with a specific investment can i get the money and states and city will say i don't know if i'm going to have that money over the next -- or whether i can do this. sounds like the governor was sitting aside money to do that. if we're more streak about how we do this it probably means less money and we'll get more bang from the buck.

we think about it more like a business. >> what programs have you seen that kind of lay the groundwork for a strategy like that? is there something out there? >> well one thing that's out there that we're looking at spending a lot of time is looking at the riff loans rail rehabilitation financing and that's a big opportunity for places where you have mobility projects and there's a lot more mobility popping up that's going to be privately funded. all aboard florida is privately owned and funded and that will bring a higher speed -- i didn't say high speed. higher speed rail from miami to orlando. in next phase of that we'll probably be looking for some kind of loan. but there's a lot of opportunity to use loans on many different automason tech noelgss and et cetera a lot of money sitting

in the account that can be used. we need good sensible projects to track that money. what's the actual impact on going cliff to cliff on funding as we've been doing now 30 plus times over the years. can you see it in your business planning? have you seen it in the private sector and your time in office. >> it's difficult to plan any long term project. the money that we get we use to fix it first and it's impossible to do a long-term planning because you need a consistent funding stream. no question about that. there is one other example i would cite for optimism. when they did the water resources bill, they did something -- the reason we don't dredge the ports as quickly as we should, there's something called a harbor maintenance trust fund which is funded by a fee but congress barrowed half

of the fund and the water resources bill reduces that each year until it phases out and i think in 2025 and all of the money is used for dredging and things that are necessary for harbors but it's the lack of long term planning. the one federal program that allowed an interest at the grated approach was the tiger program and stimulus. tiger program was enormously successful allowed multistate projects and allowed for projects of a larger scope and it was -- not traditional, but a new partnership. we did two other projects, csx and norfolk southern we improved rail freight in the eastern half of the country dramatically and tiger and state money and companies put up about 40% of the money. a couple of things, map 21,

which was passed almost three years ago now one of the things that was in here was a freight plan. i don't know where that freight plan is or how much has been done on it but when you think about fix it first, of course we have to have a safe infrastructure but we're really working off the national system that was planned sometime in the '50s and it's a good time to relook at how we're running our freight plan to accommodate what's new in the world, like both vessels and that containerships are door to door as much as they are port to port. they have to be able to get off the port and run door to door that becomes important. i'm with the governor. i really hate to see a vessel going into hall fax or redistribute in smaller boats in the united states. does that make any sense to anybody? we don't have the port

facilities to make it work, both in deep water and enable to get the product off to port in that kind of volume. >> not that we don't love canada. >> right but here. the other thing, there's so many things to be pro about in what we can do with a new transportation bill, there are safety issues that are coming out one after another after another. we're starting with collision avoiding systems and intelligent highways and everything that can be done but even as much as that we can make great environmental strategy we know more about the environment now in drainage and how to deal with it than we did 50 years ago. with robust bill we can start to implement those issues too. so there is going to be a lot of benefits. i want to do one more thing on the middle class jobs my

opportunity to go to college was because my grandfather has construction jobs when they came to this country and that moved them into the middle class, a construction job, manufacturing job cuts through the entire cross section of the american workforce from unskilled labor to advanced degree engineer. everybody gets a job plus it has upward growth. very few jobs we see now in the u.s. have that potential that you can go in as a unskilled labor and learn your craft and walk out as a solid middle class consumer and the way i understand u.s. economy, we need consumers who can consume. is there a noticeable or tangible impact? >> well, these infrastructure projects we have invested 25 billion in the u.s. over the

last decade. you're making these investments, they are typically investments that take two or three years in planning and another three years in execution depending on how big the project is. they are pretty long cycle things, not something you're going to decide on and build in six months. you've got to know what's out there over the next five or six years and these are 30 and 40 and 50 year assets or more. unfortunately our rail system today, a lot built in the 19th century not even 20th. so some of the stuff stays around and needs to be maintained and repairs, same thing with corporate assets, we have over 70 manufacturing plants and couple built in the late 1800s. those we're spending money to update an modernize, another part of infrastructure investment people don't think about. the but the manufacturing infrastructure in this country on average is over 20 years old. we're moving into the digital

economy, looking at digital technology around street automason, highway automation, the digital economy is coming quickly to a lot of infrastructure but also on the manufacturing side. the manufacturing is changing dramatically. we also need to upgrade the plants and average plant in this country is over 20 some years old. the average plant. so we know all of these need to be upgraded to be competitive going forward. we've got a lot of competitive issues long term that we need to address pretty quickly. we're going to start lagging some of the other economies. >> i want to open up for questions soon but first, there's way too much agreement as report that's painful to me. is there something in corporate america wanted when you're in office on the infrastructure side of things that was completely untenable to you on the state level that you thought was short sided that might contain you today, something

corporate america and states and governors and administration seem in lock step on this? what is not in lock step? what do you agree with these two gentlemen on? >> when you have the chamber of commerce and aflcio agreed that we should raise the gas tax, those are two organizations that can't agree that today is monday. this is a field where there seem to be universal agreement except for 435 congressmen and 100 senators. we know this needs to be done. do it. the only problem i ever had with corporations and corporate interests in governmental interests are in most cases exactly the same that's how you produce well paying jobs. the only problem i had with corporations is that tax breaks, whether we call them expenditures or loopholes, we had corporate net income tax and second high efltest in the

country. all sorts of complaints about the chamber, 74% of the corporations in pennsylvania paid nothing under the corporate net income tax because we had the delaware loophole. i said how can you complain about the corporate net income tax when 3 out of 4 you don't pay a dime. how about 35% business tax, income tax on corporations and federal tax? fortunately two years ago 2,000 biggest companies in the united states 2,000 if you come within two points, i'll give you two tickets to the next championship game -- a few paid zero but what do you think the effect i have been rate 2,000 largest corporations? 17% which would put us at the top of the world would put us right smack in the middle of the world. >> the governor will be taking

your card after for those tickets. >> he's young. he may make it. >> love the enthusiasm. we have about 15 or 16 minutes left. let's take some questions you guy are smarter than i am, there's mikes around introduce yourself and then fire away. sfwl jeff corey, the secretary was talking about completing projects faster as something he was concerned about. i was wondering what your thoughts were on project delivery, there's a lot of focus on financing, which is the controversial part but what about delivering projects with innovative methods like design build? i think one thing we touched on is the return on investment that comes from investing in our infrastructure no matter what type of infrastructure, aviation service transportation is the

one on the table right now and when we look at projects, we do a lot of design build in terms of transportation. it comes down to what's the next method for delivery and it's winning more and you'll see it more and more as part of how projects are delivered but doesn't work for every job. i think it's incumbent on states and local government to find that the most cost effective ways to do those design build is one of those. one of the things we started in pennsylvania, package our contracts, instead of letting out a contract for a bridge package 27 bridges in one geographic area because that local lowers the cost, i think it's incumbent upon us to use all new technologies in the way we procure services for

infrastructure. sir? >> you mentioned -- how do you get companies that are not direct beneficiaries of these programs, nonconstruction companies like mcdonald's and companies that are totally dependent on transportation for their model and not terribly engaged in this debate how do we get these folks involved? are we doing that through groups like building america's future. what do you suggest for those of us in the transportation world. we see these same people -- sorry, we see each other a lot. how do we get more faces out this here that also believe america needs to invest in infrastructure but it's their second or third or fourth priority after corporate tax brakds or something like that?

>> actually mcdonalds and probably gets out of there things shipped to them, cost of shipping, the time it takes those are things that tr relevant but you're right, the problem is infrastructure look, we need a federal capital budget because as long as infrastructure is in the regular budget, it will always be third or fourth and sometimes in time of war it will be fifth or sixth. and people like mcdonalds get it because they know the cost of truck gegts a broken axle because of a pothole or meat doesn't come in one day and have to shut down early. they all understand the effect of having inadequate infrastructure but it is somewhat low on the priority system but everyone benefits he said it best of the we want consumers who can consume. everyone benefits when we have a thriving economy. give us -- if the department of

transportation is right and i tracked pennsylvania got a billion dollars from stimulus and track the number of jobs in factory and on construction side, 25,000 jobs for every bill expenditures and we produce 24,672 jobs. if they are right and we were to spend $200 billion a year more for ten years on infrastructure that's almost little over 5 million jobs. and that would affect everybody, healthy america and economy depends on a robust booming infrastructure. it trickles down to everybody. >> sophisticated investors understand the value of modern infrastructure but a lot of the secondary players don't. and one of the reasons we recently did the study on for example salt lake and louisville, kentucky was to put together real case around those

benefits. so for example, the light rail example, a lot of people don't understand how much investment is going to be driven along that kind of line. i've had the conversation up here in maryland around the purple line. and you talk about the amount of investment that would occur around that, kind of dwarfs the cost of the actual rail. if you look at a lot of rail projects, whether it's high speed or light rail, whatever you look at the revenue from tickets, mine us the cost it's going to be very difficult to justify these. but if you look at the actual investment, that cities connected to the rail projects grow at 2.7 times what city is not connected to the rail. in places like europe and china people are fighting to make sure they are connected to these lines. i don't think a lot of companies yet understand the value of things like light rail on something like a purple line comes in how much investment and how many jobs will be

created both condominiums and housing and et cetera and retail locations, you'll see huge investments on the line, probably already startings soon as people put the projects in the planning phase. when i talk to companies, they don't understand the details of that. i think state governments understand a lot. some cities, more than others but i think there is a big communication. maybe most of the people in this room understand that a lot of people don't understand the magnitude of the difference if you have modern infrastructure and world class mobility. i'd add on to that, i would put any transportation projects return on investment if we wanted to decide on that i would not fear most any transportation project. they all return investment. commuter rail, light rail transit, inner cities don't survive without having the ability to bring people in.

even though it may cost a little more, somebody has to fill those tall buildings and the return on investment is significant and even getting of a return or a lot more but still the return is there. i think how do we get others involved. infrastructure week was an attempt to do that. the national association of manufacturers is here. they're not one of the usual suspects like i am and like you are in this battle, but there's a lot of people surrounding infrastructure week and a lot of events who are users of the transportation system and who benefit from them who are starting to have a voice right now. >> along those lines also, if i didn't have a shameless plug, the hashtag, if you want to break out of the insent with us

bubble, that's a way to reach out if you're a social media maven or want to be one so definitely don't forget that. it's kind of the big kickoff day for infrastructure week so that will definitely let people know where you are. yes, sir? >> i'm rick with just economics. you talked about the need for sophisticated investment and better communications. i think perhaps in the public side we're unsophisticated and not communicating well and particularly regarding infrastructure. i think it can be a double-edged sword. we say oh there's a great return on investment, so i pay taxes for, let's say, a new subway system in my city and there's a great new transit stop that would be great for me either to live near or to have a

shop near. so i've paid my taxes and i want to get my money's worth by having my home or my shop next to the station. i go there and the landlord said, well, this is the average rent you pay anywhere else in town but here you're next to the station. you need to pay a premium rent to locate here. so i then pay a second time to use the infrastructure i've already paid for in my taxes by paying a higher rent to the landlord. what's is that infrastructure can bite us in the butt that way, and a lot of the development that we want to locate near the infrastructure ends up moving away because land prices go up. now, the land price goes up because the infrastructure is there, but that value ends up as a wind fall to the people who are lucky enough or shrewd enough to own land next to the station. they tend not to be the poorest people in our country. so we tax the middle class to

enrich the affluent people who own land near the highway or the rail station, and then we wonder why people are not enthusiastic about paying for more infrastructure. maybe that's why. >> i would suggest you move ten blocks away and take the bus to the station. but no seriously, you make a good point. we don't give the right argument to the american people. no one likes to pay taxes, more taxes. the right argument is you're paying a tremendous cost by interaction. the texas transportation institute, not exactly a socialist leaning organization computed that the average driver who drives 12,000 miles a year spends $818 more because we have inadequate infrastructure. money he spends in traffic, eating up gas, money he spends

to his car. there are potholes from sea to shining sea because of the terrible winter we have had. i had a friend who drives a mercedes. he obviously wasn't in public life. but he went into a giant sinkhole and blew out three of his tires. anybody have an idea of what that costs for the tires? put it this way, he can handle the tax increase for at least another decade for the cost of inaction. tell people that the cost of doing nothing is higher than the cost of doing something. >> i think it's a good point that you made. i think you made my point the first point, which is, yes, the value does go up but that's one of the mechanisms you need to count in terms of funding these kind of projects. the value to the middle class consumer is hopefully that rail -- you have access to the rail and/or the congestion for

travel goes down. in places like the city of london where we put in congestion pricing and more transportation in and out of the city they've seen traffic down by 20%, commute time down by 26% over the last three or four years using technology and more mobility. >> and a better environment. >> and a better environment. so that basically increases the quality of life for everybody in the market. so that's the win fall for the average consumer, i think. >> good morning, i'm tonya sanders with washington premier group and i represent one of the largest rail operators in the world. mr. la ray said he knows you very well. the reason i'm standing to actually underscore what this gentleman just said, in addition to taxes, what are the alternatives for moving large

numbers of people in terms of the increase of families and people in the cities as well as suburbs. you're looking at adding 14 or 12 lanes of highway if you're expecting to accommodate that in the future. so rail, in fact whether it's high speed higher speed or actually even moving some of our freight off of the rail system that we have onto a cheaper railway, if you could comment maybe on long-term i guess investment in doing some of these additional things. >> you couldn't be more right. in the northeast corridor it's estimated by 2030 we will have 40% more cars on the road. think about i-95 with 40% more cars on the road. it's a frightening, horrific thought process. in airports, thanksgiving day

travel, it's predicted by the same year, 2030, thanksgiving day travel will occur twice a week because of airport congestion because we're not spending enough money on our airports. just think about. that. >> two things that you mentioned, one is i forget the exact numbers but one light rail train in and out of the city is worth two or three lanes of highway. so at some point we're running out of more lanes so we need to get more mobility. and inner city transportation in this country is extremely weak relative to other developed countries. forget even high speed. just higher speed. there's very few. to your point it fills up airports the highways. there's just running out of space. so at some point we're going to have to bite the bullet and make some of these bigger investments. >> we've got about 20 seconds left, so real quick.

>> mark burrow with the homeland security and homeland defense business council and the title presages what i'm going to ask. one of the things we've not heard at all, we've heard investment, growth politics is the nature of security. whether the security, homeland security is in cyber or transportation or rail or whatever. is that a failure of media, a failure of political public voices? is it a failure of the administration to build a connection between what we're talking about in infrastructure, critical infrastructure and the like, and the nature of security. the interstate highway system was built primarily becausizee ize eisenhower needed to move troops west or south. i don't hear anything about security. is there a reason behind that? >> we have talked a lot about how infrastructure plays an

important role in being resilient from natural and man made disasters that occur. first responders in, e evacuationsvac evacuations, and there's been a lot of talk of security from the standpoint of how can you secure around a city. i haven't heard a lot more outside of that, but if you look at new york really the george washington bridge is the key link and there's no other way except for going a long way around. that's been a problem, i'm told since world war ii. and we haven't fixed that yet. >> a special problem around election time. >> election time. i get it. >> i think we'll end on that. i like that. that was good. i wasn't able to force a fist fight of any kind up here but i do want to thank our panelists.

great panel. obviously a great day just in general going on for us today. don't forget hashtag vgovbuild. but first i want to introduce heidi, one of our senior congressional and political reporters at bloomberg news and she will be interviewing harvard university professor who has a big book coming out or is out that i think everybody is interested in. thank you all very much.