n letters and packages to millions of households and businesses throughout the united states. on a personal note, i experienced and i finally remembered the centennial of the civil war. in fact i believe it was my first t-shirt that had something on it. it demonstrated to me how exciting the history of our nation is and how much there is to learn it from. in terms of leno learning my daughter went to gettysberg college. and so the civil war has always been close to my family and myself. in closing let me state that in issuing the new stamps the united states postal service has been proud to participate in a valuable effort to commemorate and reflect anew on a critical area of our nation's history. now, on behalf of the united states postal service i'd like to ask robben and dennis to come up on the stage and help us unveil the stamps. [ applause ]

>> one, two, three. >> up with, two, three. [ applause ] >> ladies and gentlemen, we're going to make a little bit of a stage change here. okay. we're waiting. we're going to make a bit of a stage change and then we'll get to our prak focused on the

surrender meeting between lee and grant in the mclean house on april 9th 1965. just give us a couple moments.

>> attention! shoulder arm! present arms!

>> at >> at 1:30 about 1:30 on the arch of april 9, 1865 ulysses gran and a small entourage of officers arrived here at the mclean house. if you look to your right, they are giving you a sense of that moment 150 years ago. >> after he arrived in the yard,rived

general grant dismounted, and heya would move directly up the steps of william mclean's house and disappeared into the home to discuss with robert e. lee the surrender of the army of northern virginia.

>> robert e. lee arrived here about one half hour prior to grant and was already in the the parlor awaiting his arrival. for the next hour and 15 ill minutes, we will talk about this event, 150 years to the minute after it happened.robert robert e. lee was accompanied that day by charles marshall, marshall one of his aides, ulysses grant acc was accompanied by a large grouparge gr of officers, among them his military secretary ellie s. parker and a dozen other officers gathered with lee in nd a the mclean house to negotiate, a

to record, and to sign the terms of surrender of lee's army.f today, 150 years ago to this ago minute, we are going to revisit is that afternoon in the mclean parlor.re that great meeting. we remember it in its fabric, assisted by some descendants of those who were there that day, but we also look for its larger meaning, for our nation, and for its people. fer at about three minutes -- excuse me, at five minutes after 3:00 today, after lee departs the house, a moment you will witness here at 3:00, at about 3:05 we will signal from this stage the beginning of bells across the land. this is an effort by which dozens if not hundreds of communities across the country will be tolling bells at 3:15 eastern daylight time this afternoon.

the liberty bell will ring at 3:15 this afternoon. the bell in boston's old north church will ring at 3:15.e in chi as will the bell in the state and capital in richmond and every firehouse in chicago and at hundreds of churches and schools th across our nation.os bells but the first of those bells will ring here, from this stage, just a few minutes before 3:15. the bells will ring here and ju across the land for four minutes, one minute for each one m year of the war.in we hope after lee departs this y scene at 3:00 that you'll stay with us as we ring the bell. and now we begin. appomattox courthouse, early 1865, before war came, appomattox court house looked otica. not unlike hundreds of other communities across america.

the tavern served travelers on serve the richmond to lynchburg stage road as it had for decades.ds francis meeks ran a common general store across the lawn from the tavern right behind you. he also served, he did, as the village's postmaster and pharmacist. one thing rendered appomattox different than many villages. t it was the county seat. it's an undeniable curiosity cu that when in 1845, the virginia 45, legislature created appomattox county and designated the county seat at this village then called clover hill. it's an undeniable curiosity that local leaders decided to the build the jail before they built the courthouse. once the courthouse opened in 1846, appomattox commenced a distinct rhythm that persisted for decades.cades. monthly court days brought life monthl to this community once a month as citizens gathered from acrossacro the county to conduct business run f to run for office, to sell or

goods, to sell slaves. to witness court proceedings. it's likely and probable that the only world famous residents at that time probably made appearances at court days here prior to the warme.c several lawyers had offices in town. sheriff wilson went about his business in early 1865 like many american sheriffs did, except nemany that in 1865, he spent much more time rounding out confederate deserters than outlaws. george pierce was the county clerk. lewis isbel lived over here to my right. he was the commonwealth's lewi attorney. he another 150 or so residents ey. lived in and around the village. and beyond were farms small and large. almost all of them cultivated by enslaved people.

slaves were central to appomattox county. the slaves who lived and worked re wer here were worth almost twice as he lan much as the land that they worked upon. their homes, simple frame or log buildings dotted the farms and backyards of the county and village. it's likely that by 1865 many of the men, women and children who lived in these cabins had heard of the emancipation e proclamation. the but the union army and the mpany freedom that would accompany it, had always been miles and miles away from appomattox until april 1865. >> in a small town like this, new neighbors met big excitement. ex they seem to come along only decade once a decade or so. and wilmer mclean, his wife w virginia, son wilmer jr. and in

young daughter lulu arrived here in 1863. the curiosity was surely intensified. while appomattox experienced war only from afar, the mcleans moved here from the midst of it. mcle indeed, a close reading of confederate newspapers in 1861 would've rendered the locals here familiar with the mclean ith name, long before the family arrived. wilmer mclean had married well. and in 1861, in addition to his in add pursuits as a sugar speculator and merchant, he oversaw a sizable plantation along bull si run.zae a crossing of bull run bore mc mclean's name and became e moderately famous during the first major battles of the civil war.mo two, general beauregard made irst

p mclean's house his headquarters s report during the first part of the war and mentioned it in his reports.ñi wilmer mclean was no joel sweeney. my. so far as celebrities went, but he likely arrived in appomattox with a tinge of fame. wilmer mclean had a complex relationship with the war and the confederacy. the war tangibly threatened his home and his family on bull run. mclean's livelihood depended on ded the confederacy. he did a good business renting buildings and supplying the confederate army around manassasnd junction and with various goods and services. he reinvested some of his profits back into the confederacy, buying hundreds of dollars worth of confederate bonds. in early 1862, when the confederates departed northern virginia, so did the mcleans. at least his business. he sent his family and some of his slaves away for security and afte

sake. and after the second battle bloodied the fields of manassas, lea mclean decided to leave it all together. the decision brought him here to appomattox.to a place that had seen none of e war the war and had felt its hardships only through the letters home of the serving i soldiers and the dire news of iers and death by battle and sickness. wilmer mclean, his family, and at least some of their slaves at l moved into the comfortable bricknext t house next to us here. there, mclean would disappear from history until april 9th, 1865 when one of robert e. lee's staff officers encountered him t on the dirt streets of the village at appomattox d courthouse. >> robert e. lee, it's likely in 1865 -- his name has come to us

in simple terms as a man of simpl marvel, status a product of effective simplicity, unaffected dignity and incredible boldness. but there is more to lee than that. he was deeply analytical and sawdeeply the implications of his acts more clearly than even most of his ardent admirers did. clea he became unshakably committed to the success of the confederacy. to sustaining the differences between north and south by forging a new independent nation.to and he did, perhaps, more than anyone else to nearly make that on. happen.e in the middle of 1862, robert e. lee began a year-long stretch of stunning military successes perhaps unmatched in our nation's history.ede in fredericksburg and ri chan chancellorsville.specta every one of them spectacular against significant odds. ctories

the victories brought him fame, but more importantly, they brought the confederacy hope. while lee won victories in ile lee virginia, around him, the ia, ar confederate war effort stumbled.ou often disastrously. by 1863, lee had a preeminent w well place in the public mind. he knew well victories by him and his army stood as the only beacon of hope for the onl confederacy. he knew, too, that the feats inflicted by him might challenge the will of the northern people to continue this war. the psychological impact of his is successes he knew would far outstrip their military value. his every decision, his every act was purposeful. hoping for a decisive blow that would tip the scales in the confederacy's favor. and that victory would never come. but still the confederacy and

lee's army hoped and believed. a soldier from south carolina declared, no one can incite our enthusiasm like he does. it makes one feel better to look at him. unlike many of his opponents, lee spent little time worrying about what union generals might do to him. instead, he spent his energy ke mnts,ha figuring out what he could do to union generals and their armies.ng out w his was a mind that craved the initiative. cra and he was most effective when he possessed it. most and that he largely did until may 1864 when ulysses s. grant arrived in virginia.w >> grant. unlike lee, there would be few profuse descriptions of ulysses s. grant, commander of all union s. armies. one veteran officer described d him as stumpy, unmilitary, slouchy, and western looking. very ordinary, in fact.

very ordinary. a private soldier who saw him in a review said he rode his horse like a bag of meal.a private soldier who saw him in a review said he rode his horse like a bag of meal. another noted in walking he leans forward and toddles. though the bearing he could not have been more different than robert e. lee. b by the time the armies arrived he at appomattox, he might have been only slightly less famous than his opponent. certainly, he had become a tion's central to his nation's aspirations as lee was to the confederacy. charles francis adams jr., a tedles grandson of presidents conceded grant's awkward ways but saw the man within. he's a remarkable man. he handles those around him so quietly and well. and

he has a faculty of disposing of he work.aculty and managing men. president lincoln recognized grant's skills, but especially admired his persistency of purpose.admi he has the grit of a bulldog.re another officer put it in even t more colorful terms. he habitually wears an expression as if he is ally determined to drive his head through a brick wall and was wall an about to do it. general grant attached himself p to the army of the potomac in 1864 and promptly set about taking the initiative from robert e. lee. with a determination that matc matched lee's and with an army larger than the army of northern virginia, grant thundered through virginia, through the

wilderness spotsylvania to thepete cold harbor. in front of richmond and petersburg. on april 1st, 1865, he imposed pr65 disaster on the confederates at five forks. petersburg fell on april 2nd, and richmond the next day. lee and his army fled westward trying to escape.as the parallel pass of the army finally intersected here at appomattox courthouse, not far from the home of the newcomer, wilmer m wilmer mclean. >> the apple tree. grant first proposed that lee surrender near farmville on april 7th.an but lee danced around the issue but trying to buy some time. keeping his options open. until all hope was extinguished. that moment came on the morning of september -- excuse me, sunday, april 9th.

the supplies lee had hoped woulde s feed his army in appomattox station fell into union hands. union troops blocked the road west of the courthouse. before dawn that morning, sensing what the day might bring and knowing that how he portrayed himself in defeat a gre mattered a great deal, lee dressed in a new gray uniform ra and sashy . and buckled on his sword, something he rarely did. buckl at some point, he received the worst news at his headquarters east of the river. wors his army could not breakthrough through the union lines west of the courthouse. on dozens of fields, lee had always had options. th but no more. there's nothing left for me to do, he said, than to go see general grant. and i had rather die a thousand ad deaths.ugh over the next many hours, lee sent three notes through the lines to grant. the last was simple and direct.nes

quote, i ask a suspension of hostilities pending the adjustment of the terms of surrender of this army s.us the about 10:30 in the morning of april 9th, 1865, the guns of the armies fell silent. lee waited for a response under an apple tree along the stage he road near the narrow banks of the appomattox river about a . mile from where we are. not far from the banjo playing sweeneys' home, all the brothers were dead by now. a staff officer hauled up some dnow. fence rails for lee to sit upon as he waited.fence ra for a time, the general fell asleep. as he awaited word from grant.t. just before 1:00 p.m., the union 1 staff officer bearing a flag of staf truce and a note from grant bear arrived at lee's apple tree headquarters. grant's note informed lee, i will push forward to the front for the purpose of meeting you. it is now my pleasure to call

forth patrick schroeder who for der who 20 years has explored the lanes,e the fields, and the home places and of appomattox courthouse as an historian for the national park service. today, he will carry our story today, from the apple tree into mclean's parlor, 150 years ago to this minute.frappl >> thank you, john, thank you for all of you being in jo attendance today to remember this important date in our country's history.fo the union officer carrying uni grant's letter was lieutenant colone colonel orville babcock. he had an orderly with himey fou named william mckee dunn. they found lee resting under that apple tree by the erhe appomattox river . grant's message directed lee to find a suitable place for the meeting to occur.

by this time lee had with him only lieutenant colonel charles marshall, his n aide to camp of his staff and anmed orderly named joshua johns.ylor his other aide to camp, walter taylor had begged off from having to suffer the humiliation of attending the surrender meeting. marshall did not. in fact, lee refused to duck the responsibility himself. attending the meeting in person. the previous correspondence, gr grant offered to save lee the an humiliation by saying he would meet with anyone that lee designated.been lee's father, light horse harry lee had been with washington at yorktown and witnessed what he deemed to be the shameful behavior of lord corn wallace byit he lord sending a subordinate to formally surrender the british army.

lee would not shame the family's name by transferring the g the responsibility to a subordinate. as the small party left the apple tree site and reached the appomattox river, lee's horse traveler stopped to drink. marshall continued into the village behind us. and encountered wilmer mclean, who was outside of his house, perhaps looking to have a guard posted at his home. mclean first showed him a rd. building, most likely in the front corner of his yard. the rain tavern as it was known, but the buildings was was unfurnished. and marshall rejected it. then mclean offered his own home, which stands behind us.eame behind me and in front of you. it was a fine brick home.in fr marshall returned to lee to guide him to the location.

the group arrived at the house at about 1:00 p.m. at they left lieutenant dunn at the gate. he was posted there to watch for the approach of grant.gran joshua johns held the horses of lee and marshall outside the of house, probably in this area where this stand is set up. babcock, marshall and lee entered the house, turned to the left and took seats in the parlor. lee's biographer suggested this ngest may have been the longest half hour of lee's lifeha.0 after riding for more than 20 nt miles, grant arrived with his staff in tow at about 1:30 in the afternoon. t he picked up general sheridan and ord at the top of the ridge in front of you.

on his way to the mclean house. in fact, he asked sheridan where general lee was and sheridan said he is over in that house waiting to surrender to you.o you. and he invited sheridan to come along with him. he said, come on, let's go. when grant enters the parlor, lee rose and met him. the two men shook hands. there, indeed was a contrast between the two men. first of all, lee was 58 years old, grant was 42.16-ye there was a 16-year difference between each -- the two men.the and sometimes, i think too much is made about their dress. general lee put on a new uniform that day. said he expected to be general grant's prisoner, and wanted to make his best appearance.s never general grant was never a fancy dresser.

he had just rode over 20 miles on virginia muddy roads. as you probably experienced today. e grant wasn't riding by himself. he had his staff with him. had an escort.he third west virginia cavalry. none of grant's staff was clean. it wasn't like the mud just l stuck to grant and no one else. they were all mud splattered. general lee had put on a new uniform and he rode only about a mile and a mile and a half to this meeting.gran grant explained that he did not have his baggage with him and he didn't want to make general lee wait. h general lee said he was glad that grant didn't make him wait and he came to the meeting. they found common ground, they began to discuss.

grant brought up he met general lee in the mexican war. general lee recalled that he had met grant.s are as the generals are speaking, general grant's staff files into the room. and after some time of conversation about mexico, lee called grant's attention to the matter at hand and inquired to t the terms. grant replied that the terms would be substantially the same would be substantially as what he had wrote the previous day.evious lee then asked grant to put his terms in writing. and then lee sat down near a large marble top white table. while puffing on a cigar, grant sat at a small wooden table thatn had an oval top on it and began writing in pencil in his manifold order book.ncil observing lee as he wrote, grantld ord said he could not discern lee's true feelings.er and he said the initial joy he had

had felt at receiving lee's f letter wanting to meet with him now, h to surrender had dissipated. and now, he felt sad and depressed. he recalled, i felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe. the wishes of lincoln came out in the terms. grant had met lincoln on april -- march 28th and apri discussed the end of the war. and in effect, lincoln had said, let them up easy. after all, these men would all, become, hopefully, worthy united states citizens again. grant was generous. he was not going to send the confederate soldiers to prison camp.o they would be paroled and would allowed to go home. the officers were allowed to to keep their side arms and thei personal baggage. and their private horses. with the terms written, lee would not have to surrender his sword. he would not suffer that ation.

humiliation. after reading these generous terms, lee said this will have a very happy effect upon my army. then he inquired if the enlisted men of the army could keep their horses, as well. grant stated the terms did not allow this. and lee acknowledged they did not. perce but grant was perceptive and pt caught lee's anxiety on the matter and he acted quickly. he was not going to make lee beging to for this concession. said he said to lee that he did not know that the confederate ma soldiers owned their own horses. but he assumed that many of the men were small farmers and they would need those horses to put in a crop.as he then stated he would not d give change the terms as written but would give instructions to allow the confederate soldiers to take their horses home to work their farms. grant well understood that this

meeting taking place in this parlor was about the future of the country.ace grant -- or lee responded once again, this will have the best have possible effect on my army. lee found the terms agreeable. the task of putting the final draft into ink fell to lieutenant colonel e. lee parker.onel e. a native american of the seneca people. who was said to have the best a penmanship on the general's staff. best parker sat down to write, but he lacked ink. lieutenant colonel charles lieutena marshall, lee's aid to camp alleviated the problem by producing a box wood ink stand for parker. parker wrote beautifully and the final copy, the final letter, which is on loan to the national park here at appomattox from stratford hall is on display in our visitors' centertt.oxd

marshall was tasked with writing lee's acceptance letter of the terms.s acce but marshall lacked paper. grant's staff quickly produced paper for colonel marshall. right there in the mclean parlor, you have the inner dependency between the north and the south. while waiting for the final letters to be completed, lee thou mentioned to grant he had a thousand of grant's men prisoners. mainly captured at the april 6th battle of high bridge near farmville. ap bri and lee dropped another rather an large hint saying he had no foodot for grant's men and, indeed, he had nothing for his own men. no food for his own men. gr grant responded that he could to feed send over 25,000 rations to feed lee's army.

lee gratefully acknowledged that that was ample. well, drafting the letters well continued, grant introduced somehe of the officers in the room with him, including general seth troduced williams.th general lee knew seth williams well. williams had been lee's age -- from 1852 to 1855. another person that general grant introduced was a young captain that had joined his r pe staff less than a month earlier. his name was robert lincoln. he was the son of abraham lincoln. he had recently graduated from am harvard and joined general grant's staff in mid march and here in the mclean parlor. we don't have a record of how general lee reacted to meeting robert lincoln.r

the 8-year-old daughter of wilma mclean left a rag doll on the couch in the parlor where the meeting occurred. p and when everyone came in, they veryone took that doll and placed it on doll a the mantle.nd of the parlor. the and afterwards, the officer th started tossing that rag doll around. and it was kept as a war doll souvenir by captain thomas moore. they called it the silent enir witness. the moore family kept that doll in new york. the men would exhibit it as a war souvenir. in the early 1990s, the ladies of the family saying the men had passed away, they wanted that to come back to the appomattox d the courthouse, and it's now on the second level of our visitor center museum.o once the letters were finished

by parker and marshall, they excha were exchanged. the commanders lee and grant did not sign one document.ngth they simply exchanged those letters. me the meeting concluding lee and grant shook hands, general lee went out on to the front porch, called for johns and traveler. and once lee mounted, grant who unted, had come out of the house with g his staff tipped his hat to lee.e. and lee returned that gesture and began to ride to his army. hi upon approaching his men in the appomattox river valley, generallee info lee informed them that they had been surrendered and then told told them to go home and make as good goo citizens as you have soldiers. when general grant left the mclean house, he heard the eft celebratory firing of muskets t and cannon being discharged. o

he ordered the firings stopped. he said the rebels are our countrymen again. when the meeting concluded, a path was set for the future of the nation. when the meeting concluded, it meant that after four years of ded, slaughter, americans would stop f butchering americans on the battlefield. eace there would be a lasting peace and a more permanent binding for the nation.and lee's letter of acceptance of grant's terms made the emancipation proclamation effective throughout virginia. and i firmly believe and agree with what a west virginia soldier, an infantryman named ni j.b. cunningham present at the battle on the morning of april c 9th, 1865, what he wrote home to

his family in a letter. the letter stated april 9th is the greatest day in american history.y. thank you. >> thank you, patrick. h americans have a deep and abiding personal connection with the american civil war.. those americans who do not have a family connection are often intensely interested in those who do.ns we have seen it throughout the observances here in virginia. like wilmer mclean, descendents carry a bit of celebrity. we welcome this morning a slew fo of notable descendents and this

afternoon, we're happy to feature one of them once again for you. a man who has descended from the only confederate officer who accompanied lee into the parlor t that afternoon. dennis bigelow is the great, that great grandson of charles marshall. a as i said, the only officer to join lee inside the house. on most days, mr. bigelow can be found working as a costume interpreter for james monroe. we've asked dennis if he would take a few minutes this i afternoon and share with you hisfternoo perspective of having a family perspe connection to an historic event of such magnitude and reach. mr. dennis bigelow. h >> you've been sitting for a whil while.

so you don't need a repeat of what you've heard so well in terms of the particulars of what happened in the mclean house and the surrender.render. so i'm not going to read that out of grandfather marshall's book.ha but, i think, you would like to hear this. punctuated by the loss of a third of the army of northern the virginia at sailor's creek on the 6th of april with nor confederate general gordon having been stopped dead by a sea of general sheridan's blue b coats on the morning of the 9th, general lee knew his shrinking army could not remain whole. and could not break out of its encirclement. cou

after four years of arduous service marked by unsurpassed d by courage and fortitude, the army army of northern virginia must yield to overwhelming numbers and resources. in the wee hours of the 9th of of april, general lee's aide lieutenant colonel charles marshall and fellow staff officers of general's longstreet and gordon took their only refreshment of the day. a little corn meal gruel they shared from a heated shaving tin. and grandfather marshall noted later that this was our last meal in the confederacy. our next was taken in the united

states. the agreement of surrender which took place 150 years ago was the culmination of seven letters between general grant and general lee.n exchanges initiated by grant on the 7th and closed by grant on the morning of the 9th. the number 7, which might be seen a seen as the number of completion if not perfection.s grandfather marshall noted here here that on the 9th of april at the little village of appomattox when general lee met general grant, the question of the union of the states passed into history, never to be revived!

but what must never be forgotten here, he felt, was the conduct here of victorious americans in blue toward defeated americans in gray. specifically marshall said of the federals, they love their enemies and did good to those who hated them. this grace, kindness and dness magnanimity over four days of gnanim surrender proceedings from the 9th to the 12th from agreement eedings of terms to stacking of arms, th from the conduct of general grant to the gracious spirit of of

general chamberlain, from the soldiers of the blue toward the gray. from the strong to the broken the and lifting them up. forever molded charles marshall's life after r appomattox, making him a peacemaker. and he readily alluded to matthew 5:9. blessed are the peacemakers for they are the children of god. and so, after that, he became the peacemaker among the diehards of the lost cause.mv' renewing him as a citizen of the united states of america. and he did that until he died in 1902.

but before he died in 1892, a memorial day, he was asked to give a keynote speech before grant's tomb that he may carry on the work of peacemaking, which is our job today. >> thank you, dennis. is prob it is probably at this moment 150 years ago that lieutenant colonel ely parker of grant's staff was transcribing the final terms of surrender of grant's signature.

a copy is in the visitors cluding center.th we met the descendants including the great grand nephewarke of eli parker, a seneca indian who would become he remained legendary for a story told re stor earlier today when lee met parker at the conclusion of the by one account lee paused. he flinched and wondered at the presence of a man in the room who was not white. after he covered himself, lee looked at eli parker, extended his hand and said, i'm glad to see one real american here. eli parker grabbed lee's hand in return. he told the confederate general,

the man in appomattox who probably had more cause to doubtprobab his status as an american being as assured of his status as an american, being assured of his ma status as an american by a man who had to strive hard to be seen as an american. and eli parker turned and shook his hand and said, we are all americans this daynd.ke and like to take this moment to introduce to you just briefly to acknowledge his presence here. al parker, who is the great, great grand nephew of eli parker of the seneca nation.w [ applause ]

>> in the seneca language, i wish to acknowledge all that wi have gathered here today, and i t give a thanksgiving that you have arrived safely and enjoy omattox. your day here at appomattox. wonderful time, tremendous commemoration.h. it's a great privilege and honor for me to represent the parker family and to take part in this commemorative event. thank you very much. thank you. >> i have to say that all of us who work for the national park service, many of us have done many events over the 150th. and i have to say, we're in awe at the number of people here. we thank you for much for being here. it's time as this meeting in the house wound down between 2:30 and 3:00 to take through maybe a

i larger lens. now, we are honored today to welcome dr. ed aires. president of university of richmond. some of you met ed before. if you're in the sweltering heat at manassas on july 21st, 2011, anassas if you can remember back that st far, he gave the keynote address20 at manassas on that day. it seems a very, very long time ago. just outstanding events in richmond, last weekend commemorating the fall of in richmond. dr. ed aires is one of america's preeminent civil war historians, and i don't say that lightly. he's one committed not just to impeccable scholarship, but to reaching people beyond academia.ple he roots out stories, untold

stories, he amplifies voices unheard..d he c and he constantly challenges us to see events in new ways. always with a sense of historical justice for those who are there. perhaps more than any historian working in the field, he helps st us accord meaning to events thating were almost always far more complex and far reaching than we imagined them to be. he's retiring from his position at the university of richmond this summer.ummer. while it's a great loss for the lo university to be sure, a sure prospect of dr. aires devoting ospect o his immense energies, once again, to history is good news for the rest of us.gies it's my pleasure to introduce to you dr. ed aires.you dr >> thank you. there are, indeed, very many of you. veni and it's convenient that all of you come labeled.ent i can see where everybody's from see by the baseball caps.s and so i see everything from boston to mississippi here a fewand

rows apart. it seems very fitting.here a and i'm going to take just a few an moments for all of us to think ments about what it has meant to this country to have a national park have service step up throughout the sesquescentennial. for year after year, day after day, to make these sites where our history unfolded available to us, comprehensible to us, welcoming to us, it's sc av true, i was at manassas, and it ai was approximately 800 degrees is my memory. also had the good fortune of he being at ft. sumter on the ft. evening before the firing. i happened to be at gettysburg where it was also hot. wher and as john mentioned, last e lso weekend in richmond, we had d thousands of people come to to commemorate what it was like when the confederates fled that

city and the united states troops and abraham lincoln came into it. it was one of the more powerful moments of my life to see americans coming together and remember all of our history. the drums building in the background here. it's been a long war. i think people in the national take park service and i'm actually going to say i tional p would like to take this moment to thank the folks on the national park service for the remarkable work. worwas >> all right. >> i thought it was very characteristic i turned around to look john in the eye and teri thank him for working again. patrick, you'll have to convey convey the standing ovation.

some people volunteering to this stand, others already standing to do this. so i have to admit, i feel a great sense of responsibility at this moment. what could i possibly say? very the meaning of these events that we just remembered seem very firmly embedded in our national story. there's a reason all of you came here today.oru came h you came here to see the story that you know. kno and in our national understanding, appomattox is america at its best. the gentlemanly drama on this this landscape showed americans to be to principled, generous and nd fundamentally decent. the shaking of hands, the refusal of the sword, the unpretentious setting, the role th of eli parker, the humility of al general grant and general lee. all of those things tell us that the blood letting of the previous four years in which the

equivalent of 8 million people today died and then an anomaly.nanom the paired stories of confederate soldiers permitted hem to keep their horses and guns and of them then melting away suddenly civilians, back to my their homes has reassured america generations of americans that americans are different from other nations. we are fundamentally unwarlike, we tell ourselves. fundamentally unified.fied. this is a story in our textbooks. this is a story we teach our children. this is the story of our best sellers. and we like it because it shows us our best selves. it elevates soldiers into men ofike discipline, principle, restraint and courage. it allows everyone to be a hero. even an icon. now, general grant himself did much to create this version of the story.on o

here's what he wrote in his great memoirs 20 years later dying in upstate new york, ate desperate to tell the story of the civil war as he lived in. he recalled of this day that he ordered no firing or salutes or other what he called unnecessary humiliation of confederates. they were, quote, now our leonfede prisoners, and we did not want ra to exalt over their downfall. indeed, as you've heard from u've patrick, grant's own feelings, quote, which had been quite jubilant at the receipt of lee's letter were sad and depressed. i felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who fought so long and value valiantly. and suffered so much for a cause. and then there's a comma not a .

dash, not a period and he completes that same sentence. though that cause was, i li believe, one of the worst for ev of which a people ever fought and one for which there was the least excuse. f so in one sentence grant is saying that he felt sad and depressed. and he admired a foe who fought long and valiantly and suffered so much. but the cause was the worst for which a people ever fought.so that's the feelings that all americans have to wrestle with from that day on. that's a remarkable sentence.sen and it's self-contradictory.he it is non sequitur that defined our understanding of this ever since. the cause could not have been worse, and there was no excuse for that fight, and yet, the man who led the fight had fought an tlo long and valiantly.ng a now, the cause, of course, that hat grant identified was the dismantling of the united states.wae the world's most hopeful

democracy to create a new nation that would be explicitly based on slavery. it was that severing of the cause and of the fight that established the bargain that the white north and the white south would hold on to for generations. despite the terrible cause, grant continued, quote, i do noterity question the sincerity of the us. great mass of those who were opposed to us. sincerity. indeed, who could've doubted the sincerity of the confederacy who w had bled itself to death in pursuit of that cause. the confederacy was profoundly sincere.aspronging the soldiers were sincere in their longing to leave the tes. united states. sincere in their hatred in what they saw as an invading army. sincere in their hatred of the in abolitionist and the black and t

republicans that they blame for heican starting the war.s sincere in their belief they had the best army and the best generals. rmy and they were never shaken in those beliefs all the way up to appomattox and beyond for e so generations. so general grant was right not to doubt their sincerity. gave now, general grant's portrayal of appomattox gave the white south what it most wanted and thought it had certainly earned. respect. the soldiers were not fooled into fighting, they said. we were not traitors, they said, but were sincere believers that we upheld the same ideals that other americans upheld. our own freedom, our own independence, our own rights. they used exactly the same words as the northern counterparts and meant the same thing. as a result, the fighting in the confederates' eyes could be and

was divorced from the worst cause for which a people ever fought. they would say that 3/4 of them were not slave holders, but that all were citizens and soldiers. and, indeed, the root cause that lincoln said that all knew somehow the cause of the war was buried deeply duringat most of the time during the war. the confederates never charged into battle shouting about attle slavery. their generals never exhorted them to fight over slavery. the fact that the nation they thei fought to create was based on slavery was not the rallying cry, but it was the reality alit underneath. while grant and lee and their comrades met right behind us, slavery was dying elsewhere.

it had been mortally wounded re it across the south during the war itself, dissolving my everywhere it could dissolve. everywhere the united states army went. everywhere the slave holders fled. now, it was dying in the legislative halls in washington where the 13th amendment passed the u.s. senate the day before t wang grant and lee met here. if grant's worst cause was not slavery but rather the destruction of the united states, that, too, had been decided by the time people met here. the confederacy's purpose had d m already disappeared with richmond fallen, jefferson davis t fleeing into the southern night, with sherman marching near the southern spring, with the confederate army scattered and powerless. and despite later fantasies of guerrilla fighting, that coulds. fanta not be a desperate and si undisciplined tactic that lee would support.he kne he knew the war was over here.

the confederacy was over here. oy w all the other confederate generals followed his example. slave though the war, slavery and the confederacy ended in the spring of 1865, no one could claim to know what would come next. everything was up in the air when the events that we are commemorating today unfolded. the historian elizabeth varen has helped us to understand what happened here. quote, for grant, the union ñjkyk=i victory was one of right over wrong.or he believed that his magnanimity, no less than his victory, vindicated free societymagnct and the union's way of war. his generosity of spirit, he intended to say, this is what the north is actually like.ge to this is the spirit of generosity that we bring. she continues. grant's eyes were on the future,

a future in which southerners chastened and repentant. was one of might over right. and if you listen to the orders that you just heard, it is that we have succumbed to superior numbers and resources.e it does not say that we have ccumbe succumbed to a better purpose.d in his view, southerners had nothing to repent of and had rep survived the war with their the w honor and principles intact.ar he was intent on restoration, on turning the clock back as much as possible to the days when back virginia led the nation and before sexual extremism alienated the north from the south.h. each man believed he was on the

high moral ground. but they were believing that they they were believing that they were on different high, moral ground. for supporters of lincoln and the republicans, including abolitionists black and white, grant's generosity of spirit proved their moral as well as their material superiority. supe they were giving the south a chance to acknowledge that it was wrong as well as defeated. for supporters of the confederacy and for the many any northern enemies of lincoln and incol his party, on the other hand, lee's dignity proved that the the south could be restored to its place in the nation and that ation whatever slavery became would change the racial order as little as possible.l order throughout the war, lincoln's enemies in the north had called hat's w for the union as it was. and when lee was surrendering ng here, he believed that's what he was helping to restore. the union as it was. both republicans and the democrats, the north and the south claimed victory in the the n

ceremony, claimed vindication for their cause, even though they claimed different things. t now, it was no accident that lee and grant grew farther and farther apart as the months and a years passed after this day.ment the powerful moment we comm commemorate today, which seemed e of p to stand outside of the war and outside of politics became ever more entangled in the messy ed politics that followed. and, in fact, appomattox became ever more elevated in our ever national imagination but not because it resolved what would follow, but because everyone llow, could see in it what they wanted.d they could see here their highest aspirations. the white south envisioned ed nothing like the reconstruction that would follow. surrender here meant, we fought, we lost, we're back in the united states. they did not imagine that the

united states army would press on with reconstruction. that they could not imagine that more would be asked or demanded of be them. they saw appomattox as the end, as a resolution, not as the r beginning of a more profound revolution in american life. they could not have imagined was that the same army that was help gathered here would, in two years, help oversee the men who were held in slavery for 250 t years up to this day would then ting men become voting men in the south and america. they could not imagine that the enslaved people all around them here in virginia would be insisted upon as being full citizens in the 13th and 14th they amendments.th that is not what they thought an they were surrendering. and they did not believe that th they were undergoing a revolution in which the north ey would call the shots and am

american politics and public life for generation after pub generation to follow.3#fçion now, many people in the north, by contrast, saw appomattox as a secession of armed hostilities but not a culmination of all the war had been. enemies of slavery knew that merely ending the legality of hance slavery did not end its spirit. live that the freed people would have to be given a chance to make law lives for themselves with law, y to g with education, with an opportunity to gain property, with a right to the ballot box. enemi and enemies of the south ined t determined that it would not be permitted.ngres an honored place in the white house, in congress, and the supreme court that it had the enjoyed since the founding of uth h the nation. the american south had controlled much of american story history up until the civil war. white north says, no longer. we won the war, we will now run the nation. so grant's generosity of spirit

was the generosity not only of ahe general but of a man who thoughtfut he stood for the future.he a future in which the south had sacrificed its place of authority in the united states. now, lee and grant privately private expressed their profound profou disappointment in each other ars. over the next few years. that was one reason that grant became more devoted to black p rights as president in 1868 thanhis he had been on this day in 1865.he t he thought that the white south ho w had not fulfilled the spirit of the surrender he struck here. when he saw the black coats being written within months of this time. the riots in memphis and new orleans, saw the ku klux klan rise up, he said, that is not the spirit of appomattox, that'snge. the spirit of revenge. that's a spirit of retaliation. it's a spirit to the contrary of what we agreed upon.urned lee, for his part, burned with had resentment that even though he

had surrendered in good faith bringing the war and its purposes to an end, grant and the north continued to press for more and more in the five years ed after appomattox. lee was appalled when grant was elected president of the united unite states.d he wrote a cousin, our boasted ernment self government is fast becoming the jeer and laughing stock of the the world. ve that's not very long after these days, but those are years that were filled with a profound reimagining of what this country might mean. what would it mean not only if slavery were gone, and not only if the north and south were unified and what it would mean violatio if they had the chance to be full americans.have so from lee's perspective, hings to reconstruction was a violation of the bargain struck here. a bargain that would have restored things to as close as place the way they would have been in not

1861 as possible. that's one reason that the memory of this place has not mmedi been stable.at people did not immediately flock to this as a kind of shrine that it is today.t african-americans celebrated africa this place first because of the th role of the united states colored troops here. the white southerners were much more ambivalent.this this was not a place that white southerners flocked to. one that's one reason that appomattox did not become a tional p national park site until 1950. so it takes a long time for people to decide that what this place means -- and it may not be an accident that it's the wake of world war ii. this it takes them that long to e decide, yes, this is the place reme that we want to remember the is. best that america is.ere this is a place where we want to to remember where america became merica reunited. so the debates have never deba stopped. you may not be surprised to know that historians still argue about these things and that's because people see in these

events both testimony to american shared greatness and testimony to promises unfulfilled. both of those things are real. t let me be clear, it mattered ormous enormously that the death and the suffering and the chaos lyuf ended here as it ended here. it did matter that the union matte army was gracious.r was it did matter that the confederates went home peacefully. most civil wars as we can see onrs end our television sets every day do not end this way. most civil wars end with rampantafter bloodshed. and while american politics were forever changed after this, outright war did not resume though many people worried that d it would. we should be grateful for the accomplishments that happened here. on the other hand, it did matter that fundamental issues of freedom, of rights and of power

could not be settled here. generations of struggle followed and still follow to fulfill fulfi those rights for all americans.american i think that's why we all come here, is that it comes here to remind us of how much sacrifice fice there was, to create a kroo foundation on which we can build. why t that's why today is important.od it's not merely a celebration, but a commemoration, a remembering of just what was at tates stake here. and what was at stake here was nothing less than the future of the united states and all the people who live in it. appomattox was not an ending, but but a beginning of a long journey on which we eastern still traveling and on which the best days of the united states lie not behind us, but before us. thank you very much. [ applause ]

>> thank you, dr. ayers.ock the clock ticks toward 3:00 p.m. as the meeting between lee and grant neared its conclusion, the armies waited under flags of truce sprawled for miles around you. it's likely that after 10:30 shot that morning not a shot echoed across this landscape. even before official word of the surrender came out confederates realized what the silence me out portended. they had risked everything in nd their quest for independence andyond now any chance for recompense beyond pride was gone. a south carolinian wrote, the emotion can only be imagined. i cannot describe it. look we looked into each other's faces where blank and fathomless despair was written.neithe nor said one word.r our hearts were too full for language. we could only murmur stupidly rmur and meaninglessly the word an

"surrendered." it sounded like the nail of damnation. an artilleryman remembered men sobbing like children recovering from convulsions of grief after a severe whipping, he said. another said simply, it was the saddest day of my life. a not surprisingly, more than a rs few union soldiers called it thef happiest day of their life and virtually all struggled to find str words to describe the moment. a chaplain from a pennsylvania regiment said, wrote, oh, it wasit was grand to be there. th the patient endurance and the vi victories and defeats and mismanagements and all of the very gloom and sunshine of the four years' history of the army and the potomac crowded upon my mind and now it had its reward. its work is done and well done. one soldier offered a simple a synopsis to his wife at home. my dear, i can say now that the sa war is over, and i am still living.as war

the march of death.s as war neared its end and grief rief competed for men continued to die.e. at precisely the same time that lee and grant were meeting in ners the mclean house that afternoon, bells tolled in engine number 20 in philadelphia while mourners gathered at the home of a am soldier and firefighter william his hoover for his funeral. hoover had been a member of the penn 99th pennsylvania of the army ofsy the potomac and captured in battle. from the philadelphia inquirer, ed the deceased died from exposure while a prisoner in salisbury, north carolina. he was a member of the independents hose and steam fire engine company no. 20. his funeral was largely

attended. memb the members of the independent pany engine company in a body with their ambulance followed the remains to their last resting place. the old bell and the engine house told the sad news of the death of one of its members. rich the fall of richmond and the eminent surrender of lee's army, while soldiers still toiled and died, engendered an uncomfortable mix of joy and he sadness among northerners.ing, from the "milwaukee sentinel," fallin our foes are falling, but our g. friends are falling. it is a shame not to rejoice, but it is a sin not to weep. it is unjust not to greet the living who live to see their victories, but it is cruel not to mourn the dead who died in victor the site of what they died for.

whether we have their names or not, we shall have their deeds. fi the deeds of these dead on this field. all around the rebellious regions for all time to come, there will be -- there will this - girdle of graves of the republic sacrificial sons.s. they will remain without marble t mausoleums and elaborate epitaph, but they will be sacred, and in futurny rev draw as many reverent feet as mecca or the pyramids of egypt. at the mantle clocks around ward 3 appomattox courthouse ticked :0 toward 3:00 p.m. that sunday afternoon, the meeting between y lee and grant and mclean's

parlor came to an end. othe the two generals rose and they shook hands. lee bowed to the other officers a present and he and charles marshall walked out the front door. a when lee crossed a threshold he back on to the porch and into mclean's yard he walked into a adness landscape awash with both jubilation and sadness. their for union soldiers, jubilation, joy for the redemption of their four years of effort and their nion j sacrifice.promis joy for the union, joy for the promise of home and safety.fety. for slaves, jubilation at the prospect of freedom, though the road ahead seemed uncertain indeed. for confederates, despair at a de cause lost.pomatt an immense gamble oxunrewarded, the reality that they would ears leave appomattox with no more than pride after four years of toil and sacrifice. they would return to communitieswns and towns often ravaged by war to the to the empty beds and chairs of

lost brothers, sons and fathers. ma few places have ever embodied sony many emotions at odds as did appomattox 150 years ago this moment, but when robert e. lee surr crossed that threshold onto enhe mclean's porch with a copy of the surrender terms written by eli parker in his pocket he did more than confront a place of deep emotion. a he entered a new world, one in which the southern confederacy was no longer a possibility.al the end of slavery was real and an empowered united states confronted the immense challenges of reconstruction, concil reconciliation and justice.iatice. though few could see it that

day, lee's ride from the mclean front yard through appomattox through the throes of his feated defeated army was not an end, begin but a beginning, the first act ni in a long, national journey that continues still.♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪

god bless you, general lee.

[ no audio ] we will conclude our program here today with the ringing of this bell. on the morning of april 10th, 1865, the day after appomattox, eati caroline richards was eating her

breakfast in new york.ringin suddenly she recorded, our rk church bell commenced to ring and then the methodist bell and ve now all the bells in town are ringing. mr. noah clark ran by all excitement and i don't believe he knows who he is or where he aptai is.passin i saw captain aldridge passing, so i rushed to the window and he waved his hat. i raised the window and i asked them what was the matter and he almost shook my hand off, the war is over.lee's we have lee's surrender with his own name signed. five days later caroline chards richards looked out the same window and saw a group of men men gathered around someone reading i the morning paper. i feared from their silent, motionless interest that d something dreadful had happened. that afternoon, just days after the bells of canondegua had rung appom in the aftermath of appomattox, the bells rang again to mark the

death of america's president. bells have always been a powerful form of public expression. they mark our celebrations and our joys, our triumphs and our tragedies. today in america, bells will toll again. at 3:15, the liberty bell will be struck and bells across minnesota and in downtown chicago and in richmond, at the state capital, in delaware, california, kentucky, in georgia and many more, at ebenezer baptist church in atlanta bells in will ring. and in churches across our land in schools and courthouses and street corners and in national he parks. they will ring for four minutes,gr one minute for each year of the war, a grand, collective gesturemembra in remembrance of the war's end.nc it is up to us here at rought

appomattox to begin bells across the land. fami we will ring this bell brought to us by the family of mrs. mccoy who will ring it first today. her ancestors, her great-grandmother were once and slaves -- her great-great grandmother were once slaves and they acquired this bell after ill ring the civil war. we will ring this bell and from here t here the bells will reverberate ross our across our land. for the first year of the war ending ending in spring of 1862, the year of manassas and shiloh and e the realization that this war fort would be long and hard, i call forth mrs. aura mccoy whose family provided this bell and john griffiths, the great-great grandson of general ulysses s.thgreat- grant. gr [ bell ringing ]an

[ bell ringing ] [ bell ringing ] the second year of the war

1863, the year of antetum and fredericksburg and the emancipation proclamation i call of th forth ted campbell of the sonse of union veterans, the commanderbigelo and dennis bigelow, the great great grandson of lieutenant colonel charles marshall who was here at appomattox. [ bell ringing ] [ bell ringing ]

[ bell ringing ] >> the third year of the war ending in the spring of 1864, of the year of gettysburg, vicksburg and the overland campaign. forw i call forward cadet warren jackson of the virginia military mi institute who saw so many serve here, and alvin parker, the great-great grand nephew of lieutenant colonel eli sh. parker. [ bell ringing ]

[ bell ringing ] [ bell ringing ] [ bell ringing ]the

>> the fourth year of the war ending in the spring of 1865, of sherman's march, the toils of petersburg, richmond fallen, the war's end, relief, grief and rejoicing. i call forth sergeant clark b. hall, great-great grandson of charles h. hall of the 13th mississippi infantry. a u.s. marine corps veteran of sley, vietnam, and 1st lieutenant samuel mosley, a korean war veteran and winner of a silver star and a purple heart. [ bell ringing ]

[ bell ringing ] [ bell ringing ] pr >> and now at precisely 3:15 on

the afternoon of april 9, 2015, 5, bells will ring across america. [ applause ]

as the department of labor calls for new consumer protections for workers saving for their tournament, national economic council director will deliver a keynote address on the potential new rules at an event. he'll be followed by a discussion about the future policies. see the full event live beginning at 10:00 eastern own c-span. and later vice president joe biden will talk about the ukraine russia conflict and its implications for european security. those remarks will be live from the brookings institution at 12:15 eastern. david mccullough on the wright brothers their quest for flight. >> i was 2 mystery of who it was that hit wilbur in the teeth with a hockey stick knocked out all his upper teeth when he was

18 and sent him into a spell of depression and self-imposed seclusion in his house for three years. was not able to go to college which he had planned to do. he wanted to go to yale. instead he stayed at home seldom went out at all reading, and providing himself with a liberal arts education of a kind most people would dream of having all on his own, with the help of his father and the local public library. but it was -- it swerved his -- the path of his life in a way that no one had ever had any way of anticipating. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q and a. now we'll hear from the two living historians who portrayed generals grant and lee at the

appomattox courthouse national historic site events commemorating the surrender 150 years ago. this is 30 minutes. >> you're watching american history tv on c-span3. a live look from the appomattox courthouse national historic park in virginia. the site where 150 years ago this past thursday confederate he general robert e. lee surrendered his army to ulysses grant ending the civil war. w we'll be live from the park for tackin the nextg three hours as the comem ration continues today with reenactments of the gun stangs that took place on this day when more than 22,000 of general lee's infantry troops turned over their weapons and battle flags. we're going to bring you the sights and sounds. you're hear remarks from

historian david blight. we'll give you a chance to call in and talk with professor blight. but first we're joined by the by tw two men who played a starring role in thursday's ceremony, the surrender ceremony that you just saw here on american history tv. ulysses grant and robert lee. general lee by thomas jessee. you can all 202-748-8900. mountain and pacific, 202-748-8901. send us a tweet and join us on n histor facebook. so this moment we just saw, our thinki viewers saw onng american history tv, gentlemen, what were you thinking as that -- as general lee rode away? >> sadness. i felt empathy for the h confederate soldier.

i knew how much they were suffering with the surrender after they had fought so hard for four long years. i felt it was almost anti-climatic. one of the things i noted was ndidat the silence. there were no guns, no con noannon ating, no sounds. the silence wu a sound we had not heard for four years. and it approachede wa the eerie. >> as we watched that sight moments ago, you seemed to pause for a moment before mounting. what was going through your mind? >> at that particular moment i was concerned for my horse. we were putting the bridle on anfor mo e removed the forelock from ldiers underneath the bridle. but what was going on in my mind foremost is how i was going to

tell my soldiers that they were surrender ared and be able to dofor fo it, to actually say the words. and to let those men that had followed me for four years ak fiesed everything, marched in the rain and the mud from petersburg and finally tell them you're surrendered and it's over.ur ameri that's what was going through my mind. >> a reminder to our american history tv viewers, we'll be here for the next 20 25 minutes talking to ulysses grant played by curt fields and robert e. lee played by thomas jessee. let's go to donald in jacksonville. you're on the air. go ahead. okay. i don't hear that.e days let's continue on. we'll get to calls in just a moment. general lee, in the days before

the surrender on april 9th i ment y had read in your memoirs that , you you had a severe head ache. but the moment you received the news you became instantly well? >> the headache immediately disappeared. never to return again.the no i expect it was because of the great relief for the note that itime he had just been given from generalnd i lee was the first time he had used the word surrender. and i knew the end was near. and the relief was tremendous. and then the stress of pounding through the virginia countryside to try to get to general lee to stop the wkilling. >> what was the final final straw really in your decision-making, general lee, for calling for a meeting with general grant? >> i sent general gordon forward to the west to see if we had a clear road or to see if we couldge break through.g

and general gordon and general see i long street andf myself decided we're going to give it one more time and see if there's any way out. when general m gordon sent me the message back that he had fought the soldiers to a frazzle and the way was blocked by infantry, then i knew right then that was i time to meet general grant. >> i think we have donald still on the line from jacksonville. are you there? >> caller: i'm still here. >> go ahead. >> caller: can you hear me? >> we can. go ahead. we're fine, thank you. t >> caller: what aim trying to find out is, after all these years the confederacy is still flying the flag f around the country, which is disrespectful to blacks and people that are fought and died to represent the union. why is the confederate flag off stillen -- and it's very it

offensive. if a so today we're talking about ng aro 2015 and i got a couple of granddaughters come in this t world. i don't want the confederate flag flying around. it's offensive and i think something should be done. can you comment on that. >> appreciate it donald. gentlemen, any thoughts on the flag? >> i have no comment on that rnl i have no comment on that either. >> part of the ceremony here was the banners and the flags. >> those flags represented my army, my soldiers represented our sacrifice. wit what i should point out is the and flags were treated with reverence by the army of the potomac and general grant.: that's good enough for me. >> travis in florence, alabama, hello hello. florence, alabama, are you there? >> caller: yes i'm here.

can you hear me? >> yes, we can. go ahead with your comment. >> caller: i'm travis bails fromstio florence, alabama. had i had several relatives in the army in northern virginia.have and my question is had lee been able to link up with johnson in north carolina, could. war have been turned in the southeast favor? >> no. >> why not?t out. >> the south was fought out. the men had done more longer n out. with less than any army in erally history but they were fought e out. they were worn out., he c had general lee been able to escape my forces he couldn't have lasted any longer than days. his men were starved, out of ted ammunition, barefoot, many of spiri them. they were defeated in everything

except spirit. but had general lee been able to break loose from my forces it would not have prolonged the war and certainly would not have changed the outcome of the war. >> general lee. i. >> i had a men duty to try. i had a duty to my government bsolut and myel men. but in retrospect, general grant is absolutely right. by the time i would reach general john sob, there's no very m telling how many men i would have left. i wasild anng losing men every mile because they were exhausted and manag they were starving. they just they couldn't go any further. if i had managed to escape general grant here i'm convinced he would have caught up with me before i made excite terms the ovalley. >> how many days in advance did you begin to device the terms of surrender? >> at our last meeting