and then once you have that thinning done, then you can continue to run that fire through there. either prescribed fire or with our natural fire. but often we need to do that meg cal treatment first it reduce the stand down to a level of biomass that we can then handle when we do have a fire. >> and probably a more historical level, at least within the ponderosa pine in the west. >> yes. >> thank you, madame chair. >> thank you. chief tidwell, as a doctor, i appreciate the adage that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. i'm concerned with the ever increasing need to fire borrow money from fire prevention activities and the declining health of our national forests. the administration seems intent wanting more without engaging in land management reform. the administration is set on maintaining failed status quo policies and culture of litigation. and as i said last month, forest service has i believe lost its direction and purpose. the forest service has become a bureaucracy emphasizing internal processes over real results and improvements on the ground. so in my view, if we're going to increase fire prevention activities, then congress needs to direct and mandate results and outcomes. so does either the administration proposal of s-235 contain language guaranteeing that it goes towards activities and provide language providing legislative reforms aimed at streamlining active management and reducing litigation? >> no, it only eliminates the

they'd to transfer and eliminates the stoppage of work in the fall. >> so i look at this and say we must prevent the practice of fire borrowing and prioritize funding for treatment activities to reduce future wildlife suppression costs about than's i didn't co-sponsored s-508 of 2015. i think we also have to streamline the way forest management activities are approved, make meaningful policy reforms. it also includes innovative ideas like arbitration. we need to solve the challenges

facing us. is the tore forest service willing to find ways to find solutions? >> we're of course very interested in working with the committee. as we've discussed in the past, this concept of arbitration, it's something that i'm interested in trying. i'd like to see us take on a pilot approach on to that. and part of that is that i need to see that it's a better solution. it sounds good in concept, but i really think we need to move into that, do some pilot approaches. and just to see where that can take us. but i think it's one of the things we want to continue to work with you on.

>> so often those who oppose active management, hazardous fuel projects, thinning activity, they will destroy wildlife habitat. your testimony paints a different picture. in your view, what are the primary road blocks to improving watershed health and wildlife habitat? >> in our experience, it's been partially the process associated with nepa. we can find opportunities to accelerate nepa, we see that as an opportunity to move more rapidly forward. i think secondly, too, there is -- and we're seeing this begin to change when it comes to the attitude of the forest service that to be in the project management business, to manage those forests, and to refocus their efforts on the reason why many of those forest reserves were created, essentially to protect the water supply. >> and thinking about your professional career, one of your responsibilities was to protect and improve watersheds. you described national

environmental policy act as a weapon in hands of a few. in your testimony, you talk about the amount of time it's taking to complete the santa ana watershed environmental impact statement, i think you said over three years to undertake an action that is prudent and a misapplication of the intent of the law. how often to you see nepa being used as a weapon or barrier to actually improving watershed health? >> i think it's common. it's a long process and the whole deal is to avoid litigation from people that are obstructionists in my view. >> so if we do nothing, what are the consequences of what is happening with fires? >> well, do nothing is catastrophic fires, continuing catastrophic fires and having unhealthy forests and all the other things we've talked about today. >> thank you. >> thank you, madame chair and thank you all for testifying. i wanted to note for the record

that hawaii has a fire problem, also. and it is estimated that 0.5% of land in hawaii burns each year, a percentage that is equal to or higher than what is experienced in western states. given that hawaii's native ecosystems are not fire adapted, we are losing an alarming amount of native floor to wildfires. the nonnative glasses cover some 24% of hawaii's land creating landscapes that are flammable and highly susceptible to wildfire. so clearly this issue touches every single state. chief tidwell, you talked about healthy forest restoration act. it sounded as though you have thought about making some -- or

asking for some amendments to this law that would enable the forest service to as you put it take a total landscape approach, not just looking at thousands of acres, but to be able to look at tens of thousands of acres. so do you have some suggested language that would provide more flexibility for the forest service to deal with this problem? >> with the passage of the farm bill, and thank you again, it did expand the use of the healthy forest restoration act. so if you combine that authority and the original, if does really expand on the ability to use in a information efficient nepa process on much larger landscapes. one thing that may be helpful is if we just had one authority instead of the two so that it would be a little easier for folks, our communities to understand. the reason we're able to get more and more work done each year is the level of support we have through these collaborative efforts. and it's been mentioned by the panelists here, we need to be looking at not just the hazardous fuel issue, but also the total restoration projects, work that needs to be done to restore the overall watershed,

reduce the hazardous fuels and create this resilient system. so it's essential that we always recognize that needs to be able to have the engagement with our communities, but being able to really reduce the number of alternatives that we need to address definitely speeds up the process and it keeps everybody at the table and allows us to get the work done sooner. >> so are you saying that with the combination of the farm bill provisions and the healthy forest restoration act, that you

have enough authority but it would be clearer if we could put it all in one -- >> one way just to simplify it and make it easier for the public to understand and that now we can use it on a larger landscape. so it's one thing that we're thinking about if that's something that would really help us, but we've had some discussion on it. >> you talked about the need for collaborating with communities across the board. so do you have a state by state program or plan that would enable communities and fire departments and state and counties to work collaboratively with the forest service to prevent the wildfires? do you have something for hawaii? >> in the past, we've done it more community by community, with communities that developed a community wildfire protection plan.

and now with the cohesive strategy that we just put out, it allows us to take more of a es not only to we need to have fire adaptive communities, but we also need have fire adapted human communities. so we're taking the action so that we're working together to reduce this threat. and these two efforts then along with the immediate to keep the suppression resources we have is really going to be i think very helpful for us to be able to move forward and address this problem that goes way beyond just the federal land. >> i'm sorry, i'm running out of time. but you said you work community by community. are you working with any particular communities in hawaii? you -- >> i'll have to get back to you. the point you raised about the invasives dealing with in hawaii, that's what we're doing

in so many state. so i appreciate you bringing that forward that your state also deals with that issue. we'll get back to you with the list of the communities. >> thank you, madame chair. thank you to the witnesses for being here. it's a timely hearing we're having. on saturday, senator bennett and i are hosting a summit. over two dozen wildfire experts, community experts, mitigation experts will be joining us. so i'll ask you about that. but i wanted to follow up on some of the testimony that you've made in your testimony, you talked about progress in retrofitting the hc-138 share craft that the service acquired from the u.s. coast guard. how many of these will be ready to perform suppression missions this summer? >> we'll have one of those

aircraft in the latter part of the fire season that we're going to be putting a mass tank in to be able to start it use that this year. and then by the end of the year, we expect to see the second one. and then by it will be 2019 before we'll have probably all seven of them with the tanks built into the planes. >> and the time line for completing the work required to bring them into service 2019? >> yes, we'll have all seven in operation by them. >> what is the status of the forest ground water rule? >> we've withdrawn our initial proposed rule to allow us more time to continue to work with the states and the stakeholders to it really address this issue.

our concern about making sure that we're not impacting, you know, ground water. we're also -- i'm working with our regional foresters to ensure that as we have to address these issues especially on large mines and oil and gas leases, that the lack of having a systemic consistent process doesn't become the barrier. sfwl continuing to talk about the litigation and paralysis that sometimes presents in terms of making sure we're managing our forests the appropriate way to avoid and prevent the atz cats catastrophic wildfire from happening in the first place. if there was one particular avenue of legislation that you could draft yourself to avoid some of the litigation that's stopping or upholding some of the forest management activities so needed, what would it be?

>> i would start looking at ways to collaborate. that is the one thing that's making the difference. the support we have to be able to do these projects. so any way we can continue to encourage that i also think this concept of arbitration is something that i'm interested in explore ing exploring and a pilot fashion to see if that might be a better way. the other thing is also we when you talk about our using the farm bill authorities to be able to reduce the amount of analysis we have to do instead of looking at sometimes five and sixal alternatives, we look at two, that also allows us to be able to ensure we're addressing the issues around those alternatives versus having to look at a much broader piece of work.

i think that will also help us to be more efficient and more effective, but those are the things that i've been thinking. gl thank you and talking about sort of the theme and the staser declaration, are you aware of some of the challenges we have after a fire when it comes to the fema declarations themselves? does the forest service weigh in on any propoezsal to perhaps change our disaster declarations? >> we work closely with the state ss during the fire to be able to make sure they're getting send those in as quickly as they can. and to be able to provide our -- >> i guess what i'm talking about, after the fire has been you know long after the fire is out, we have the ongoing flooding issue, landslide issues, soil conditions and fema can sometimes leave the scene although it creates secondary emergencies and then have to receive their own designation. has the forest service weighed in on changing the process so we can avoid some of the regulatory

hurdles that are occurring after the fire? ness from. >> we have not engaged, but we have recognized the problem. it's another area we need to work together to be able the to find a way to be able to recognize that yeah, there's the fire. and then there's the recovery afterwards and often, that's more detrimental, more impacting than the fire itself as you've seen in your state. i think the it's an opportunity where i think we can look at taking a different approach so that we can do a better job to work with our communities to be able to have a timely response that goes way beyond what we're doing with our emergency rehab work. >> i was on the western slope talking to an individual that manages a railroad. he has his own fire fighting fleet because of if there's a

fire started by the railroad that creates liability and substantial damage to his community. as a result of some conflict between forest service regulation, he is sometimes limited in where he can send that fleet out to put a fire out before it becomes a major fire and some challenges with the helicopter they have contracted to go in. i would love to work with you to try to find out a way we can partner with the forest service and this fire fighting fleet. both the forest service and this individual have the aim goal in mind. that's to prevent a forest fire from happen ng the first place and making sure we can get the regulations into place where we're able to get the fire out without finger pointing. >> we'd be glad to work with you and the individual on that, that's the sort of thing especially with the working with state forester, we have the authorities to be able to do that. it may just be making sure we've got everything in place and then also, we always share have the concern and safety to make sure

that whoever is responding to a fire has the equipment knowledge and skilling to do it safely. >> thank you. >> thank you, madam chairman. chief, you and i spoke briefly before the hearing about correspondence your office has received before the state land board. having lived in idaho, your well familiar and they oversee the state forest holdings and other holds and their concern as you and i have discussed and as you have discussed with many members of congress, they're really focused on some optimism hopefully around the provisions in the farm bill that are going to give us the opportunity to do some of these treatment projects that we've wanted to do. i think i don't need to tell you, but there's a lot of frustration out there that it isn't moving as fast as we'd like and maybe people had expectations raised beyond what is reality when you're dealing with the federal government unfortunately.

but i would urge you to continue. i think this is, it's still untested. we're making some progress on it, but i sure urge that we continue and put one foot in front of the other and try to mature this process as rapidly as we can. >> senator, i agree and i'm glad to provide the land board in idaho and to you and your staff. just the list of the projects we have planned in idaho using the farm bill authorities and then later this summer we'll finish the requirement acts so we can move forward with the good neighbor authority. we have taken additional time to work with the state foresters. because of taking that time and doing some scenarios with them, we call them sand table exercises, where you'd actually go through a process to see how

would this actually play out to be able to work together to implement a project and because of that, we've made significant changes to that template that the feedback i'm getting from the state foresters that they feel that's going to be a much better tool, so taking more time is is really going to help us in the long run. >> i've spoken with mr. schultz who heads our state land board and he's very anxious to see this move forward and he's in agreement that this has some real potential. if it's moved expeditiously and appropriately, so i appreciate your efforts in that regard. >> i was surprised to hear you say that you were short on the ground of overhead photographry in a fire. when i was governor, we had a summer there was a lot of fire and every morning before it got light, i had in hand, a map of what the fire had done from satellite imagery and some other

overhead imagery of what the fire had done the day before. i'm surprised to hear that isn't imagery in san diego like we do in idaho. what can you tell me about that? >> the process you are referring to is the irops program where the forest service airplane flies an infrared plane over all the fires burning in basically the western united states and then the fire teams have that information before 6:00 in the morning. and i do know where their fire is then. the issue is that fires change during the day. we now know where the fire was last night and we know where the fire was the night before. we don't have real time information. now, the forest service research does have an airplane with a fire mapper program that can fly at above the altitude of the air tankers and all the helicopters and now can continue usely map that fire and send real time

data down. but it is a research process. >> you are looking for hour into hour as opposed to what happened the day before? >> certainly, or at least more than once every 24 hours. >> that clearly makes sense n. today's world with the technology we have it would seem to me that that would not be that difficult to do. predictability obviously is important, and with weather changing, what have you, sometimes it is relatively predictable and sometime not. thank you very much, i appreciate that. >> thank you madam chair. >> thank you senator risch. senator hoeven? >> thank you madam chairman. chief, good to see you again. thanks for your recent visits to north dakota. i'd like to follow up on that. first question goes to the environmental assessment and the allot men plan for the grazers. in both cases they wanted changes made, you know proactively. can you give me a status report on how you are coming with that. >> senator, follow up with that

meeting, our folks, our -- we're going to continue to work with the grazing association members to be able to address their concerns. and i think -- i want to thank you for hosting that meeting because i think it helped to clarify a few issues to help us be able to move forward and address their concerns. >> so you feel you will be able to working with your state director, be able to make adjustments that should work for the grazing associations and the ranchers? >> i was optimistic after listening, you know from the work there done by the university that i think would provide a slightly different approach that -- one that i think will work for both the ranchers and also address our need. that was the thing i left with that meeting, is that a little different approach that was being proposed there that could help i think really once and for all kind of settle this one issue that we've had there. >> i appreciate that. the other thing i'd like to

emphasize is working with india shoe range scientists particularly dr. sodavic, i think not only are they knowledgeable and focus on the science but they also have a lot of credibility with the ranchers in the area. i would emphasize that you work with ndsu and their range scientists. and particularly on the 3 1/2 inch visual obstruction reading. i think they can really get to a solution that ranchers feel is common sense and workable. . and that's the issue that the university and the doctor -- he has come up with a different approach to really determine which areas actually have the capability to produce that stubble height. and i think from the discussions we have had there at your meeting and a little bit of follow up discussion, i left there being more optimistic than i've been for a while. hey, this is a better approach that the university is coming up with for us to be able to answer

that question about which areas are capable or not. and it seems like that's really been the issue. the ranchers can you know manage their livestock to be able to produce the stubble height we need. we just need to be able to understand which areas are actually capable and which ones are not. and i think once we can come to greet on that i'm optimistic that we can put this issue behind us and move forward. >> the -- in order to continue the dakota providerry grasslands demonstration project, do you know does that require legislation or is that something you can do without legislation? >> we can continue to work under that demonstration project. at this point we don't need any additional legislation. >> okay. that's important that we continue it. and then let me switch to the fire piece. i know you are getting a lot of question on fires, but it looks like we're dryer this year -- we certainly are dryer this year starting out than we have in the

last several particularly in the west. address for a minute your approach to the grasslands in terms of steps you are taking to be prepared for fires this season. obviously, you are very focus on the forests, but the grasslands have fire issues as well. >> well, the grasslands are part of the national forests. so when i talk about the national forest, i'm always including the grasslands. what we are doing there in the state is what we are doing across the country is to be working with our cooperators, with the volunteer fire departments so that we're ready to go when the fire season -- which in your case has already started. if i recall, the day i was up there, just a couple days before we had already had selffires in your state that people were explaining to me they just never see this level of fire behavior occurring so recall in the year. so those are the things that make sure that we have the resources we need that people are ready, and if there is anything that we need to address that we can take care of it

ahead of time. in your state, and like many states it's those volunteer fire departments that are a big part our initial attack resources. and they are responsible for being able to get there quickly and being able to suppress so many of the fires. and so it's like in your state and the rest of the country, it takes all of us working to the. the federal government, the state, counties and local fire to be able to deal with this. >> and then address the controlled burn issue for minute, too. obviously, particularly sensitive this year because it's dry. and you know we really want you working with the people on the ground, not just the land owners but obviously volunteer fire departments and everyone else. so touch on controlled burn for just a minute. are you staying away from it this year because it's dryer? what's your plan? >> well definitely -- and when we have those conditions that we have up there, we often are not going to get it in prescription to begin with. but we are only going to be

prescribed durns burns where we have kind the agreement and the support from the grazing associations where in part of your state that is a little bit wetter that association is very supportive of more fire. other parts that are dryer we don't have that -- at least that agreement at the point. so we are not going to be using a lot of prescribed fire in those areas until we have the right conditions and the level of agreement so that everyone is together on what's the value of this. and make sure that we are factoring in the risk to avoid the situation we had a couple years ago. >> thanks again chief. appreciate it. thank you senator hoeven. we have been discussing about how we get the accurate imaging of the fire during the funny river fire that we had last year on the peninsula, the state was able to use drones to determine

where that hot spot was and found it very effective because it was one of those situations where the smoke was so thick you didn't know what was happening and there was no real way to pinpoint it at that time. so the technologies that are out there i think can clearly help to make a difference as we try to battle these fires. and mr. eisele, you mentioned just the significance of having an app where people know who is where and from a safety perspective making sure that those who are fighting our fires have some tools that perhaps we reason is had in the past. we haven't really had much discussion this morning about the wildland urban interface and the fact that 50

horrible fires and you would see just nothing but charred blackness, and then there would be this island of green where they had created defensible space. and just the education that goes on with the fire wise program -- i think we recognize that we can reduce the cost of suppression if -- if the homeowners as well take an active role in management.

chief, can you speak to what we are doing to encourage that end of it? again, it's preventive but are we using sufficient resources to allow for an understanding and a training and education for folks that -- so that they too are making a difference? >> madam chair, we are making i think even more and more progress each year and especially with our cohesive strategy that we put together working very closely with the states the counties boroughs and cities to come up with an understanding of really what it's going to take and then the tools to be able to create that level of awareness especially with the private land owners. and then to be able to set up demonstration projects around the country to be able to show the difference that we're making. and we're also prioritizing some of our fuels money so that it's

going to those areas where the state, the private land owner is doing the work on their land. and so that we can make a more effective treatment area. and so those are the things that we are continuing to do. and i think that there is nothing -- i think that encourages more people to maybe do the right thing with their private land than to have those demonstration projects where they can see the difference that it makes. and what it really takes. some folks think they have to completely clear all of their land of all trees and brush. and we don't need to do anything to that level. so that's demonstration projects are really helping the private land owners to be able to see okay this is really what i need to do. so working very closely with our state foresters, through our state fire assistant programs that help provide, you know some funding to be able to do this work, not only on the national forests but also on the private land together. and so through this cohesive

strategy that i do believe that it's going the really help us to move forward in bigger way than we have in the past, i've never seen this level of support and understanding, you know, from our partners from the states and the counties, the boroughs and the cities than i have based on this cohesive strategy. >> well, if you are looking for demonstration projects, i would just suggest you put people in an airplane and fly over some of the areas where you see the blue tarps that mark where you still have surviving structures again amidst some pretty tough devastation here. one quick question, and i was going to include it as part of the record, but i will ask it rye now. i was up in eclovitt for the arctic minute terrell meeting with secretary kerry.

one of the frameworks that was discussed there at the arctic council was focus on an effort to reduce black carbon emissions in the arctic. the council's action is probably more focused on man made black carbon, but the reality is that the largest contributor to black carbon is really the wildfire. and i guess i would just ask if the forest service is going to have any role at all in this black carbon initiative with the council? if you don't know, you can get back to me or just submit for the record, but i do want to put that on your radar screen because it is something that i think we reason is really talked about. we are talking about the man made. but i think again the issue of wildfire is where we see the

vast majority of that black carbon. >> madam chair, i'll follow up. but i did know we have a couple of our research scientists that are working with that group. and the point that you bring up about the carbon that's released from these fires we can make a difference if we can reduce the level of severity and the catastrophic size of some of these fires as far as the total release versus doing it through more of a prescribed fire in a much lower severity. so those are the things that as we really look at this problem we need to be factoring in all of the benefits that come in from having an approach that can restore these forests and at the same time take suppression where we need to take suppression to protect our communities. >> one last question very quickly. in the fire potential outlook alaska's highest risk of significant wildfire potential

is in the may time period. and it's my understanding that we are seeing fire season earlier and earlier. i mentioned to you my just own personal view flying into the interior this weekend. are we -- do we track that so that we can actually identify that the fire season has started in places like alaska even earlier than traditionally seen? >> yes track the changing conditions to make sure that if we need to bring on resources earlier than what we normally would do, that we bring those -- we have those resources available. >> that was specifically what i was going to ask because you basically budget for this. you've got your assets that are on stand by. but if in fact, we're seeing

our fires start earlier, do we have them co-located in areas that we can be responsive? or do we wait until the calendar says fire season begins in alaska? >> we do not wait. >> okay. that's what i need to know. >> we preposition our resources where they are needed. >> okay. senator cantwell? >> thank you madam chair. chief tidwell i wanted to go back to the question i asked before. i didn't think we got a chance to get to that. and that was the amount of funding that is available versus the amount of need that we have on the wildland, interurban -- -- the urban interface. sorry. where do you think we need to go in getting resources? and what do you think the advent of a biomass program might be able to do to help? >> well, first with the increase in funding that we received this year for hazardous

fuels, and where the majority of our work is in the wildland urban interface that is going to be able to allow us to expand that program and be able to treat more acres. for instance, we are having 2.5 million acres is our target for this year. and out of that 2.1 of that is going to actually occur in these highest priority areas. the second part of it is with finding more use for the biomass and whether it's through an integrated wood product that can expand markets or to be able to use it for energy conversion and substitute that for other energy sources -- i think those are the things we have to continue to work on. i think where we've been able to use the b cap authorities that subsidize the transportation of biomass, it's allowed for new facilities to be -- to come on line to be able to provide some additional support for those new

businesses, you know, and so those are the things we just need to continue to be able to work on. and then the program that we have to help folks be able to receive grants to do the economic analysis to put a business case together so that they are in a much better place before they make the decision to make that investment. and then the last point that's been brought up a couple of times is the certainty. it's essential that we provide some level of certainty for the -- especially these new operations so that that's the one thing they dope have to worry about, there is going to be x amount of biomass that's guaranteed to be available, you know, for like at least a ten- ten-year period. >> why do i think of the set-aside issue when you say that? the notion that you know the forest service needs to adhere to the set aside for small

businesses? >> it's one of the thing with our stewardship contracting it's one of the issues that once -- thank you again for making that permanent for us. but we are working with the small business administration to be able to go through rule making to address that issue. >> okay. well, i definitely want to see us make progress. fur saying that part of this is getting, you know, a flow of the biomass to create these businesses -- but how much -- so of the -- you said 300 million, what do you think that represents as far as addressing need? do you think a number that is double triple that that you could easily do if you had the resources. >> well i would respond with what we requested in our budget for fy-16, to maintain the increase in hazardous fuels that we received last year, to be able to expand the collaborative force landscape restoration work, to be able to get more funding for our basic forest

restoration work and then also some additional funds informing work with the states to be able to expand the work that they are doing, those are the things that we asked for in our budget along with recognizing that our ten-year average for fire suppression went up $115 million again just this last year. so when you total those numbers together, our budget request, plus what we're asking -- needing for fire suppression on the ten-year average i think it actually comes out to a little over $300 million. >> so when you say what you've said today in the cull minuting aof your question and questions, it sounds to me more -- i'm not saying status quo, but it's sounding more we're on the right trajectory. and then when i see this research report from your organization it says something different. so where are you on that research report. >> because it is within the forest service. >> yeah, i just was reading that, at the start of the

hearing. you know the research -- you know, they are just i think identifies really what we are focused on. and the shifts that we've made over the last few years to recognize the need for us to manage fire not only the natural fire in the back country, but we'll have our fires where we are taking very active suppression on part of that fire and then at the same time allowing another portion of that fire to be able to burn, to be able to reduce fuels a. good example of this was the rim fire a couple of years ago in california. aggressive suppression to keep the fire out of the communities, but at the same time we allowed that fire to burn up into yosemite national park where the park can be doing some prescribed burning. so those are the things that we need to continue to do. when i looked at that research paper, for me, it describes really what we're at. but we do need to expand. we're going to need to be able to use more natural fire to

manage more natural fire. we are going to be able -- we need to increase our prescribed fire. and we also need to increase our mechanical treatments especially in those places that we need to do that work before we can you know, put fire into the landscape. the other opportunity -- challenge we have -- and it's pointed out in this paper -- is for our communities to really understand what needs to occur. when we're managing fire in the back country there is still a lot of concern -- and at times i think some of our communities, they are scared worried about where that fire is going to go versus if they know know that if they see the planes flying and the resources and stuff. so we need to do a better job to work with our communities so that they understand the actions we are going to take and that they recognize the work that we've done to reduce the threat to their communities. but to build more support for it. the other thing -- and it hasn't been mentioned yet at the hearing, we're going to have to

work together with the states to be able to address smoke management. there are times when we're going to have to i think, put up with a little more smoke from a managed fire, a low severity fire, to reduce those catastrophic situations. it's something i think we are going to have to work together to be able to provide that flexibility so that there is less impact not only to our communities, but i think about the loss of tourism the loss of economic activity when we have these large fires -- and you saw it in your own state with the carlton, that those communities -- there was nobody going up there to go fishing or float the rivers, et cetera, when that fire was going on. and so that's another reason why we need to you know, increase our pace and scale with this work. and i think an incremental approach like what we're taking with our fy-16 budget is the right way so we can continue to ramp this up.

and then i -- i know i'm way over time but i just have to mention like the salt river. the partnerships that are coming together from, you know, communities, or water companies that recognize that it's a good investment to be able to change the conditions so that they don't have to deal with the aftermath of a more catastrophic fire. and we are seeing that spring up across the country, where people are willing -- communities water companies, water boards are willing to make that investment to be able to change the conditions on our landscape. >> thank you. doctor i see you listening intently to every word that the chief was saying. did you have any comments about that? ? >> no i'm partly admiring his mastery of the venue and his material. i think the only comment i would add to some of the observations you made is on the wild land

urban interface issue we've tended to define that as a wildland problem that affects communities. but you could pick up the other end of that stick. isn't this an urban fire problem with funny landscaping? and if you think of it that way then we know how to keep houses from burning. we've solved that problem before. so in some ways it is a definitional issue. if we start thinking about these as little fragments of cities then we start applying the same solutions we've had and we can solve it technically. >> even in these extreme situations lying carlton? because it was such a blow up, you know because of weather and win and everything? >> yeah i think you can. we know how to harden those communities. we know how to solve some of that. under truly extreme conditions you are going to have some damage. you are not going to stop everything. but think of it as a kind of hurricane event. we know how to prepare and take

action. so in some ways i think we are misdefining it and i'm struck how often with aerial photos of these communities that have been burned the houses are reduced to the concrete slab but you still see so many trees around it surviving. and you are struck by this is a house, an urban fire problem with funny landscaping, not just a wildland fire problem. so we need to do both. but i would put more resources thinking about the other half of that equation. >> so your definitely describing poteros because these houses in a matter of minutes burned down to the foundation. but why were you saying there are trees because -- >> i'm not familiar enough with the coralton complex. i know there was a lot of disbursed stuff. but i'm thinking we had comments from colorado early the black forest fire waldo canyon, some of these others looking at the overviews of these. and repeatedly, that's what you see in forest situations, communities.

the fire is going house to house. it's going along the ground, and you are wondering, why are some of these communities burning? that's a house problem. that's an urban fire problem or an exurban fire problem not just a wildland fire problem. >> thank you. >> thank you madam chair. >> cantwell -- chief i'm not going to go back to fair bengs banks and tell them they've got to suffer through more smoke, as you know we have just some extraordinary summers where there is no soccer that's being played. there is a health alert every morning. and some mornings it's so dense you literally need to have your headlights on during the summertime. and it is an issue that we deal with. fairbanks has some of the poorest air quality during the winter because of inversion issues. but during the summer it's

because of the wildland fires that are all around. so it is -- it's something that we struggle with, most certainly. i -- i listened to some of what you said in terms of the average that we spent last year. i think you said about $150 million more than it spend on average over the last ten years. i've seen something that says almost $200 million more than it spent on average. but what we've seen is that there have been less than half the number of fires, less than half the number of acres burned, and less than half the number of houses burned. so, depend, it just -- it speaks to the issue that we have here where we are experiencing skyrocketing suppression costs. and i think we get to a point where we can continue to throw everything that we have at every fire, whether it is effective or

not. you just can't be kind of a blank check approach to fighting the fires. it's not sustainable. economically or perhaps ecologically. so it's something that we must look at. i think we need to strategically address the fuel accumulation problem in our forest and integrate our fuels management objectives into the wildfire management operations. i don't think that we can have fire management divorced from land management. and i think we heard that from several of our witnesses here today. clear, we have -- we have got a great deal that we have to do. it's -- it sounds weak to say it, but i hope for our sake from a budget perfective that it is -- it's not going to be a bad fire season. i hope that for the sake of

those who have properties or perhaps concerns about their own safety that it is not a bad fire season. i certainly hope for the men and women who in the face of pretty serious danger are willing to go out there and battle these forest fires. i hope for them it is not a bad fire season. but that's not -- that's not a good policy to hope that we get lucky, that we dope have a bad fire season. i think we are seeing things set up for a tough year this year with the drought in the west low snowpack everywhere it seems, except here in the east. so we have some real issues to deal with. but i think, again, you've got -- you've got a real commitment to figure out how we can deal with this fire borrowing because we can't get to the fuels treatments, we

can't get to the important aspects of what we can do on the preventive side if we don't have dollars in the budget if they have been spent on these sky high suppression costs. so we've got some work to do. and i think you've got the commitment from many around this diyas to work with you to fine some solutions. to those of you who traveled far to be here with us this morning, well, you may not have gotten the bulk of the questions, know that your testimony and your input is greatly appreciated as we look to resolve these issues that have considerable impact, particularly to those of us in the west. and with that, we stand adjourned. and thank you.

the senate will convene this weekend for a care rare sunday session following a week long memorial day recess. they will gavel in at 4:00 p.m. for legislative business eight hours before the patriot act provisions are set to expire. they are resume debate on the house-passed u.s.a. freedom act that would expand patriot act surveillance provisions but also make changes to the nsa's bulk data collection prab program now requiring the nsa to get a warrant and ask the phone companies for their records. roll call votes on that bill could happen any time after 6:p.m. follow live coverage of that this weekend on our companion

network, s span 2. the u.s. institute of peace hosted a discussion tuesday on women's leadership in africa specifically focusing on peace building and development efforts. panelists include the ambassadors from mozambique and rwanda. this is an hour and a half. good afternoon, everybody. we are complete. so i'm delighted to welcome everybody this afternoon. my name is nancy lindborg. i'm the president of the united states ins tootd of peace. for those who are here for the first time we were founded about 30 years ago as an independent federally funded bipart san institute that is really dedicated to a world without violent conflict. it's in that spirit that i'm delighted to welcome you all here today. and as we mark today's africa day's event which is i think

commemorating a very critical moment in moving towards a peaceful africa with the 1963 founding of the african union. we have a wonderful set of guests with us today. so i'd like to extend a special warm welcome to our co-host this afternoon, ambassador muhammad tafiq of the republic of egypt. thank you for joining us this afternoon. and especially warm welcome to ambassador mathilde mukantabana of rwanda, and ambassador si sumbana from mozambique. i know there are other ambassadors coming in and out. feel welcomed. automaticary happy to have you with us. i'm happy to see ambassador princeton lyman with whom i've worked throughout the years. we'll also have him here. ambassador lyman was the u.s.

special envoy for sudan and south sudan. so two years ago on the 50ths anniversary of the african union, the 53 nations set out a plan for the next half century, and i think incredible set of vision and foresight. and they came together for the agenda 2063 which was a road map that put together a vision of the continent as a processous and peaceful africa -- prosperous and peaceful africa: i think all of us are well aware, you cannot accomplish that kind of vision without the full inclusion and participation of women. and so quite appropriately, the africa union declared 2015 as the year of women's empowerment and development. which is obviously the right way to kick off the agenda 2063.

and it is a time in which the african union is calling on all africans to seize the opportunity to focus on practical solutions and measurable results for women on the continent. so in this spirit, we're just delighted to host today's panel featuring our ambassadors from rwanda and mozambique who will highlight women's roles in peace building and development along with our friend from -- i guess you'll do your own introduction. so i won't do that now. but we have an incredible panel who will really focus on all the ways that women are critical at agents of change. and understanding that the agenda 2063 is a very important framework to move us forward on this. and 2015 lays the foundations. and from the u.s. it.

p. perspective, women are absolutely critical for laying the foundation for peace building, and for enabling the vision of the agenda to really come to fruition. and so it's with great pleasure that i welcome you all here today. and with even greater pleasure that i turn it over to ambassador mukantabana. and we are also joined here by susan markham from u.s. idea, a former colleague of mine who runs their gender work there. delighted to have you as well. ambassador? >> thank you so much. >> thank you very much. >> ambassadors, members of the diplomatic corps, friends of africa and distinguished guests happy africa day celebration!

on behalf of the african ambassador's group accredited to the united states of america in washington, d.c., i seized this opportunity to express our deepest gratitude to the united states institute of peace for hosting this event on the sidelines of africa day 2015 celebrations. most especially i want to thank the president of the u.s. institute of peace honorable fans lee lindborg and their team for this wonderful event organized in conjunction with our co-chairs of africa day 2015 organizing committee for his excellencesy rashad bohar ambassador of the kingdom of morocco. and the ambassador of the arab republic of egypt and their team who have worked tirelessly to ensure a successful celebration to africa day 2015.

our topic today, women of africa shaping peace, building, and development supports the overarching theme of the africa union theme of women empowerment and development towards africa agenda 2063. ladies and gentlemen, as we celebrate the africa today we are called to reassess its journey, acknowledge the progress that we as africans, particularly women have made while reflecting upon the common challenges we still face in the global environment. while african women have made significant gains over the continent they are still widely marginalized within the corridors of power and when applying for jobs continue to face social exclusion from education to their inability to own land or inherit property.

the agenda 2063 calls on african stakeholders to work together to build a prosperity and united africa based upon our shared values and common diss destiny. we vowed to put all our people starting with women and girls, into the center of africa development. in addition, to empowering its people africa seeks to harness its advantages such as history, culture, and natural resources in order to reposition itself in the world. in order to become a prosperous africa, a strong influential global player and worldly power we need to strengthen our institutions, promote good governance democracy, human rights, justice and rule of all for all the daughters and sons of africa. today, we are standing on the

shoulders of the african giants whose timeless legacy we are called to preserve and expand. the legacy of self determination which came for african women was credited by our forefathers. our generation and future generations should take heed of their message for united democratic, and prosperous africa. recollectiononing with history we are challenged with speeding up our pace in the global and economic community in building an africa that cherishes the girls and women of our continent. i'm honored today to represent the country that has taken to another height the spirit of self determination for all its people. wonder when families, particularly women have more

chances of thriving make me feel compelled to share some. measurements that have supported the acceleration of women progressing in rwanda. a strong political way to empower women and girls guided by the principle of gender rights is inalienable rights human rights. as a country we adopted the comprehensive social economic and political inclusion and empowerment of woman, at all levels of government and civil society. the question of a prominent minister agender and family promotion couple with a systemic mind-set about gender rights took us where we are, where we can claim that we have 64% of women in our parliament. in health conclude we adopted universal health coverage and intentionally invested in proving general and maternal health. if there is one success factor

this we can build on is african countries, it is has been inclusiveness. inclusiveness in all fabrics of the world and our society. women participation in all spheres of government has enabled society to heal faster, develop quicker and grant sustainable development. ladies and gentlemen, it's -- we can't argue that while africa women have been regarded as the backbone of african societies by and large gender politics is still a dream across the continent. history has taught us that women empower men and economic development are closely related. on one hand, we know that development can play a measurable role in reducing inequality between men and women. on the other hand empowering women also translates into development. we must however acknowledge until relationships of women in

powerment and development are too weak to be self sustaining. and that continues policy commitment to equality foris an idea to bring about equality between men and women. women and girls prepare a great majority of african demography it's clear that africa can only reach full potential by including them in the development agenda. empowerment, countries must put in place policies that guarantee women's rights. though we must maintain our core culture, we are also able to be willing to remove the structural barriers imposed by old traditional and oppressive practices against women. for africa, gender is the annual agenda. our discussions today we focus

on total of women in peace building, in development. we recognize that women and girls are the first victims of conflict and violence. and any political economic and social fragility is mostly against women. must empower and support women in their quest to curtail these predictments. i thank my sister, who is here from mozambique and the fellow distinguished panelists who will lead us in this important discussion. heading from different decrees, professions, works of life, races we can hold hands and commit to further african union's founding father's legacy by fighting for women's emancipation. let us continue to fight this discrimination against women and girls, make peace a global priority. and let all our dedicated ideas get promoted democracy, liberty

and justice. had we understood the wisdom contained in these words that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere we appreciate that whatever effects women directly indirectly effects all humanity. and we needed to uplift all the people of our humanity. africa 2063 is intending to have a full equality for all women and for girls and for the whole humanity. so we hope that at least 50% of our elected public officials are coming from women. the economic and political glass sit ceiling that restricted women's progress is gag to start being

sharerred. as i close i have a quote from a woman talking about what empowermentment for a colleague. it is empowerment is like an engine, you start it and it converts fuel into motion. what i would ask the audience and for all of us is to empower the african women and girls to be the premiere fuel for our continued sustainable development. i thank you very much for our attention. [ applause ] so now i'll pass the microphone to susan. >> thank you so much ambassador. and also i would like to thank nancy and the u.s. institute for peace, and the republic of egypt for having us here today. i'm glad to be here to celebrate

africa day in this way. this year marks the mid-point of what the african union has called african women's decade. the african union as also declared as we have discussed 2015 to be the year of women's empowerment and development towards africa agenda 2063. africa shares the u.s. commitment to gender equality and the empowerment of women and girls within the post 2015 development agenda and the national action plan for women peace, and security. the u.s. strongly supports the great strides and commitment many african countries and the african union have made to increase women and girls' empower men through steps to promote good governance and rule of law, accelerate economic growth enhance food security, advance respect for human rights, promote peace and security, and improve access to services such as health care and education. but african women and girls still face significant

challenges, including high rates of gender-based violence, a dearth of educational opportunities, difficulty accessing credit capital, and formal employment lack of influence in the decision-making process, h.i.v. aids and high rates of maternal mortality customary laws which may disadvantage them and many cultural norms which may perpetuate discrimination against women. the united states acknowledges these, but also the critical role women will have and will continue to play in accelerating africa's development and advancing prosperity and security across the continent. to promote and protect women's rights, we within the u.s. government, use our diplomacy and assistance programs to increase political, economic, civic, and educational opportunities for women. we also remain committed to preventing and responding to gender based violence, addressing the unique economic barriers faced by women, and

elevating women's meaningful participation at all levels of decision making, especially during peace and political transition processes and post conflict reconstruction. we know that including women and their perspectives in peacekeeping and conflict prevention efforts, efforts to end wars and bring about just and sustainable peace, efforts to protect civilian populations and hold accountable those that commit war kprims and crimes against humanity -- these are absolutely essential to international peace and stability. and to u.s., international and national security. women's political participation can help lay a foundation for their participation as negotiators, mediators witnesses, and signatories in peace processes. at the same time women's meaningful participation in peace building can help set a standard for their leadership in efforts to rebuild and recover. the u.s. government has taken dlibtd steps to support women's leadership and participation in

peace negotiations community governance initiatives, security sector reform and transitional justice and accountability processes. for example, the u.s. government has developed deliberate multitrack approaches to strengthen the active participation of women in conflict resolution and peace building in sudan and south sudan n. nigeria, the u.s. government has promoted women in leadership and peace making through a series of conferences and workshops. training exercises encouraging tolerance across ethnic and religious lines through engage men with influential traditional women leaders. there have also been interfaith media looi dialogues discussing how stakeholders can prevent violence in the run up to the 2015 elections: last year at the u.s. africa leaders is up summit president obama encouraged nations to develop national action plans on women, peace, and security, and he pledged

u.s. support for up to three african nations to develop or sbemt nap or similar strategy strategies. today the united states reit rates this challenge to the governments of africa and we are working with several governments across the continent to answer the president's all to action. usaid supports initiatives and investments regarding gender and resilience in the ebola crisis. in addition, the agency will place an acute focus to programming emerging theme attic enter sections of women, peace, and security in global climate change and countering violent extremism most notedbly. the issues of women, peace, and security not only stand on their own as important issues but they affect all of usaid's efforts to end extreme poverty and support resilient democratic

societies. as i said, countries are more peaceful and prosperous and sustainable when women are accorded full and equal rights and tune. the united states supports efforts to increase the number of women in elected and appointed office and to strengthen the capacity and influence of women leaders. worldwide, and especially in africa women play a critical role in agricultural growth but they also face persistent obstacles and economic restraints. so we will continue to focus on these efforts across u.s. aid programming. jn der based violence is a global epidemic. it crosses every social and economic class, ethnicity, class, religion, and education level, and it transcends international borders, but usaid is working in several countries, where we're investing in gender based rye lens prevention and response programming. we are also working to end child

early and forced marriage. we are working in ethiopia specifically to do a combination program where we are working a community outreach. we are trying to address the barriers that the cost of education has and also help families understand the issue and the importance of keeping adolescent girls in school. through the economic growth programs we are doing in subsaharan africa it is a policy priority for the united states and so we will continue to work because we know women are the backbone of communities and the continent's greatest potential to unlocking economic growth. building on similar efforts, targeting women and outat prior global entrepreneurship sum it is, this year's summit will convene 150 up-and-coming women in youth entrepreneurs from around the world for an official presummit event in nairobi. this event will connect emerging youth, women entrepreneurs and global change makers, thought leaders, policy leaders, investors, and industry experts. africa is a very diverse and

large continent. and so the work that the u.s. government does tries to span all the different countries, cultures, and different sectors in which we need to have work. i look forward to this robust panel today discussing both women, peace and security as a specific issue but how the process of engaging women in women, peace and security issues affects other secretariors as outlined below with global climate change early marriage, education, and economic growth. so i'm turning it over to ambassador princeton lyman for this panel. and i look forward to it. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, susan. thank you very much. and for those remarks thank you to the organizers and sponsors of africa day and this panel in particular. we are really very, very pleased to have an exceptional group.

because the groundwork has been set by nancy's and ambassador mukantabana's comments and susan's comments we're going to delve even more deeply in this panel into both the specifics of where women have been involved in & made a difference or where the obstacles have arisen to them doing so. i'm not going to be able to do justice to this panel because if i did, in introducing them, it would take the whole time we have. will you bem introduce them briefly to you. first, next to me is ambassador amelia matos sumbana, the ambassador of mozambique to the united states since 2009. prior to that, she was a member of mozambique's national parliament from 1994 to 2009. she has a long experience in government. she has worked in agriculture.

she has worked in health. she has worked in international cooperation. and she was a member -- is a member of the from liamo central committee on international relations. she has a master's degree in population development from eduardo mulano university in paputo. next to here is kamissa camara. from the national endowment for democratic. she is the senior program officer there for west and central africa. she oversees a multimillion dollar portfolio of grants to civil society organizations. i know kamissa well. she works tirelessly. she travels extensively. she is in touch with these organizations on a very personal basis. she also is the founder and o'co-chair of a health strategy forum which brings together stakeholders around the issues

in that area. prior to coming to nad, kamissa was with the international foundation for electoral systems. she trained people in electoral management in countries throughout africa. she holds a master's degree in international economics and development from the university of peer amon dez france. and has a b.a. from another university. my french is terrible. she has written extensively and published a great deal. ambassador next to her as we've heard is ambassador mathilde mukantabana, the ambassador from rwanda whose remarks we heard. she was prior to that professor of history at consume river college in my home state of california where she received an

award for best teacher there. she has been a passionate community organizer for many, many years. she has formed many organizations to bring together the communities of rwanda and others together, including the friends of rwanda association. her awards include the 2012 peace and justice award from the center for american peace and conflict resolution, the global peace award from global majority. and as i mentioned an award for outstanding teacher. and finally on the corner there is jacqueline o'neill. director from the institute of inclusive security. if you don't know that organization, you should know that organization. it's an exceptional organization on working -- used to be called women waging peace. jacqueline is responsible for overall pos policy advocacies and programs. she oversees all the regional initiatives as well as the support from the institute for

governments and civil society. she advises and trains the military police, civilians serving nato u.n. and she's from canada, policy adviser to canada to secretary of state. and along with former lieutenant general, she helps found an initiative to address the issue of child soldiers. prior to coming to the institute of inclusive security she was at the u.n. mission in sudan. and also at kartoum's university. this is an exceptional panel. and i'm going to turn to you, madame ambassador. we're going to try to make this as much conversational as we can. but each of you have asked to make a few remarks to start us off. thank you, please. >> thank you very much. good afternoon to everyone.

your excellencesies ambassadors dear colleagues. let me, first of all, thank you for being here to celebrate with us as africa holiday. especially women, africans day. thank you for being here. let me also thank the united states institute for peace for having us here to share our experiences and to both with how host the united states people to share with you some of our experiences, as africans. i'm very delighted to be here and very grateful for having been invited to be here. as you know, this is the year of african women.

i come from mozambique. mozambique is located in southern africa. going direct to the issue, let me say that mozambique constitution defends gender balance and equality of opportunity for all without any kind of discrimination. gender equality and promotion of women are just its stake members to consider the location of at least 30% of the decision-making positions. in mozambique, my country, which attained its independence through an armed struggle against colonialism, women were always present and act initiative the national policy and agenda for their emancipation. after 40 years, which we're going to celebrate next june,

i'm proud to be able to say that mozambique and parliament where i once set for 15 years is a very good example of women empowerment. with almost -- it has almost 39% of women in parliament out of 250 members. the parliament speaker is a female as well as mozambiquan general attorney. this just to give some example. in the executive, we have reached the percentage of 23% of female ministers and deputy ministers. we have a long way to go yet because we'd like to reach at least 50%. but we are struggling to go there. women play a decisive role in the country's development. they are growing from small to medium. some of them and sometimes

risking their own life and comfort to provide better conditions for their families sustained internal market change. i believe that any kind of economic investments should be gender sensitive and include women in the gatherings associations cooperatives, or individually because they have proven to have management skills and commitment reimburse puts at their disposal by credit institutions. of course, we have challenges. mainly related to access to education for women and girls who are frequently the most illiterate. in the rural areas we are fighting against early marriages. we have heard from susan that usaid is working on that.

and many mozambique, we are partnering with usaid and other organizations to fight about this outrage. this is a phenomenon, embedded in local tradition. and customer relations, empowering girls and women to decide about their own life. women rights as human rights cannot continue being ignored. they must be addressed. women deserve to be part of the education systems and technology revolution. to be able to render their contribution to a peaceful, stable and sustainable world. the agenda 2063 is a road map for africa. and women can play a parliament role in preventing the diplomacy that's guaranteeing peace building.

i believe that this road map will enhance women's participation. and gender is one of the eight priorities of the au commission. it has been mainstreamed across other priorities. very often, after any conflict, women gather around organizations to rebuild not only socials issues destroyed by the war and care for external displaced people and they care through their participation in health, education and other economic activities, mainly agriculture. let me stop here and i'll be able and very glad to receive any questions coming from the audience. i thank you. >> thank you. [ applause ]

>> good afternoon, everyone. the very first reason there is even a focus on women's participation in peace building and development is because women are the most heavily affected by conflict and poverty. and there are, there is an overwhelming number of practical case studies supporting this. and there are plenty of analysis and research that have been done on the subject. in africa, most specifically, it's really in post conflict situations that we've seen women's political leadership gain momentum. in liberia, for example. liberia -- post-war liberia elected africa's first female president. south africa has one of the most gender sensitive constitutions of the world. in another example, maybe kenya, after the election violence of 2007, in 2008 women were able

to make sure that in the constitutions there were provisions safeguarding their rights. so in all of these post conflict/reconstruction environments, women's movements and women's civil society organizations have grabbed the opportunities that these conflicts presented. and they have used them to their advantage. now, also, that's one reason for that is because during conflicts, women assume more nontraditional roles outside of the household as gender norms change and the war basically -- destructs traditional or social structures. now one of the main questions i would like to ask is do we need -- how do we make sure that women's movements gain momentum in times of peace? or maybe another way to ask the question is, do we need a conflict in order for women's leadership to gain momentum?

so in my opinion, the structural barriers that affect women, not only on the african continent but elsewhere mostly tradition, religion, are barriers that can only be addressed through a change in mentality and can only be addressed on the very-long-term period. it takes a long time for that hoe happen. it doesn't happen through quota systems. it doesn't happen through different laws. also, the -- these can help offset the barriers on a very short-term. but really, it happens through a change in mentality. i don't have, i would say, any specific strategy on how to tackle these barriers. so don't ask me. but, there are groups of women out there. and some of them, have supported over the years that have taken very original approaches in leadership and peace building.

and one of the main examples that come to mind is in mali, for example, i don't know if you're familiar with west africa, but mali in 2012 had a military coup. jihadists came and took over the northern half of the country. and during that period of time, women didn't have -- well they were not even allowed to even show their hands or feet. but after the jihadists left, there was still six sigma and there was a need to reconstruct the social structure. and basically, what women did is that they came together illegally and the younger women who had exposure to facebook, twitter, to brazilian tv soap operas were the ones who were training their mothers on how to speak up or how to discuss with men and how to make sure t