and it's unfortunate but we are here. and so we have issues to address. and i was here when we passed the health care law. all we passed was the senate version o f a bill. obamacare that passed the health care law was a senate bill. that we passed on the floor without any additional debate or oversight for a year and a half later. so the -- i want to go to miss hub hubbard. here's the example. i have sons that i love very much. so they go and get a drink at one of the convenience stores. they have personally title edd --. i'm not sure what's in this

thing. i think it's sprite coke poweraid, you know that they mix themselves. you can't label for that, can you? >> no, sir, that's one of the complexities of the bill and of that self service. it also would entail we list the calorie counts. i would bet your sons also put ice in their cups. what we provide them, based on the rules isn't going to be accurate. if i were to get the combination right. human kinds of items in your locations would have multiple concerns about getting the calorie count. if you didn't and were held accountable by, i guess federal law enforcement. i guess we're going to have federal law enforcement police coming into retail stores,

checking the menu labeling and ensuring adequate calories are posted in multiple combinations? >> virtually everything we serve would have some sort of the ability to -- all of the drinks, obviously, have wide variety of calorie counts. on the prepared items even, if i have a clerk feeling generous that day or they slap an extra slice of cheese on there, they don't cut the pizza in exact eighths, then you point out the obvious concern, this is a felony now. and how do i protect -- >> a felony? >> yes, sir. >> mr. quinn, also a delegate, i guess is what you call in virginia part of this debate early in the the health care law

was the same debate we have in energy and commerce. there was a concern if we don't -- this is now a national bill then will could be maybe local community movements or county movements that would then disrupt national chains. to exempt some of the chains save of us ourselves or save us from the different parts of the country who may do individual referendums and have multiple -- can you speak to that from both positions you have as a representative, not representing the state, but can you address that? >> yes, sir we have seen states across the country adopting menu labeling laws. and this becomes very difficult for single store operators or even a medium sized grocery chain like we are to be able to comply with this patchwork of regulations.

none of those have been in our area. but they've been in plenty of our friends' areas. and so now you're saying that the fda will come in and be able to enforce it across the the entire country. then you have the federal rule to super cede the state laws, but all they have to do is mimic the exact same regulation at the local level, and then all of the sudden, it doesn't supercede, it's exactly the same. you can have fda saying this isn't going to work. you're in big trouble. you could also have someone from a town or a city or a county coming in and say in the exact same thing if they have set up a lot that does not supercede the federal law itself. and so you're going to be right back in the same boat only fda will have promulgated regulations. it's not a regulatory process by a local county government.

you're just dealing with on the fly interpretation by someone else. to me that's a really slippery slope to start down. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm listening to him describe mixing the sodas at the fountain, and i have to tell you, i hate that. i'm a purist. some of the machines you press coke and it gives you five different cokes and i'm always afraid i'm going to get the cherry coke. i don't like to do that. but anyway, i guess i'm going to be asking questions about pizza now. i'm interested in how they treat serving sizes. the fda final rule of house pizza slizs to provide calorie counts per pizza or per standard slice with a listing of the

number of slices per pizza. but hr-217 allows something similar. it would allow establishments to list the number of servings and number of calories per serving, or to list the number of calories per the common unit division of the standard menu item, such as a multiserving item. the question is, do you think the fda final rule is offering two different approaches to accomplishing the same policy goal, or are there differences between them, and if there are differences, could you explain their implications? >> so, actually hr-217 has one other option, and that's to list the nutrition information by the serving size or the common subdivision unit without having to list the number of servings. which would be different than fda has. you can reduce the number of

calories in a pizza overnight by slicing it into ten slices instead of eight slices. you could take a plate of chicken wings and put half the chicken wings on one side of the platter and the other half on the other and say it's two servings and then change the calories from a thousand calories per appetizer to 500. so the law as written and without that information it's very difficult for consumers to be even with the servings lists it's very difficult. so say an appetizer is listing as four servings and the chicken wings is listed as two servings you can't compare them. it's much easier to this list the calories for the whole appetizer, the whole pastry the whole dessert and people can compare options and decide which one they want for themselves.

this is giving people their own -- >> all right thank you. we've heard from pizza places and convenience stores about the difficulties they face with coming up with calorie counts for the myriad of pizzas they offer. i have to imagine that restaurants also face similar difficulties giving the items and combinations they serve on their menus. could you tell us if things are just much simpler for the the restaurant industry, or whether you're finding ways to address similarly complicated issues? >> yeah, i think that we're all very similar. i spent 15 years working at 7-eleven. my ceo previously was the ceo for papa johns. i think we have a good understanding that all of us

face. we have a very complex business. we have thousands of different combinations that we can offer to consumers. sandwiches, coffee, ice cream when you fak ctor in baskin robbins. we have tests. we have limited time offers. it is very complex. i empathize with everybody here, but we have spent the last year figuring out how to label the products to make nutritional information available to our consumers, and i feel all of us can do the same thing. and may i add, i'm sorry that the honorable congressman from illinois left. but to say that people are not interested is a mistake. every month 4,000 individuals visit blockto get information every month. millennials in particular care about this information. >> i think you're right. i'm a little bit like him in

that i don't pay much attention to it. but i think maybe that's because we're older. i think younger people pay a lot of attention. and maybe we should pay more attention frankly. so thanks a lot. >> now recognize the vice chair of the sub committee, mr. guthrie, five minutes for questions. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you all for being here and speaking to us today. on dunkin donuts. i know y'all are located out of new york city. so new york city started this in what 2007, i believe. so you've been working on menu labeling seven or almost eight years? >> we've been working on it hard and fast for the past year. but certainly we've had more ensight into this. >> was it difficult complying with new york city's laws? >> i remember sitting around a table just like here today saying we can't do it. we can't do it and we did it.

>> but you said you've been ordering them the last year. i mean, new york city had it since 2000. >> we were able to get that into place. i believe that was 2008 we were able to get that into place. we had a deadline we had to meet and we met it. >> are the new york city standards similar to the federal standards? >> we have been assuming they were very similar to fda. as we talk to them, that's been our feeling about it, that it's similar. similar. >> okay. one other question. when you look back -- they had a menu label up. a soda anywhere from 1,000 to 80. so i guess it depends on the size you get or whatever. that was enough information to me to say i know which one i'm going to get. i want to closer to the zero than the other way.

so what's reasonable to make more people healthy? i just went to our schools. we have a lady in davis county, kentucky, making sure that kids only get three pickles if they get a cheeseburger. if they get four pickles, they violate federal law. and that sounds silly to say that, but it's absolutely true. and so what we're trying to say, i mean, that's absolutely fair. i'll take people and show it to you. so how do we get information in people's hands that i think the vast number of american people want. i think that they want the information. but in a way, they can sit back and say washington is doing things republican.asonable. so we talk about displaying 34 million pieces of information if you take i don't know how many different ingredients you have. it just gets almost -- doctor, you said something to the point that labeling soft drinks is

very inexpensive. but if you have to print 34 million combinations or print it all through your stores, you know i think what's simple, my kids live on their phone. so why not have it displayed in an electronic way that people have access to and they can always have it? that seems to make sense to get the information to the people and take care of all the different problems. would that make sense down the line? >> yes, sir, and we have already looked into both having that on the website and we have a mobile app as you just pointed out.

single one of those pieces. >> it says we agree. we want everybody to have information. how can we do this in a way that people don't look back. i can take you to davis county kentucky, and show you the lunchroom lady making sure they get three pickles. instead of four. . they can't reach in and get it out of the jar and on the plate. that violates federal regulations. and so those are what we're trying to get to. and just dealing with -- i know y'all want to offer this in a way that works and does it look absurd when reporters go with you to a school and say are you

kidding me? is somebody in washington, d.c. worried about when their kid gets three or four pickles? is that what the federal government is doing? that's absolutely true. that's why you're here. i didn't stage these here to tell you that. >> you can have information overload. our tags have a score. you have front of package labeling. you have the larger back of package labeling. you're talking about a lot of labels on one single food. and frankly, you could put a label across the frunt like a tobacco product that says this product will make you obese. i promise you people will still buy that product if they want it. so i think you're arguing apples and oranges here. in the end, they're going to eat what they want to eat. they're going to get what they're set for that day. >> and i almost never pick up something with that label and don't pick up the calories. let's do it in ranl way. >> chair thanks gentleman.

>> thank you mr. chairman. i guess these rules -- this rule is not ready for prime time. we have considerable discussion about what it's going to do, how it would be implemented. i understand that. and although the rules have come out. -- it's my understanding that there's not been a whole lot of nins going on. some of you addressed this. some of us sent a letter asking for a delay. i'm grateful for this hearing and this bill so we can look at what options we may have to make this actually reasonable and work, as i think like everyone has testified we want good information for the consumers. i think that's good. but i am curious you know.

do you think a little bit more time is needed or should we get do it and do up and down votes on this type of legislation? >> you know, i think that there's a lot of common ground with all of us. i think we could focus on that. first of all, we agree an addition na l year is fine. we are ready to go now. but we're willing to say that if others need more time, that's fine. i think the other thing we look at is we all want the final guidance from the fda. promotional and advertising materials are not covered by this, as law intended. we want to know when we reformulate a product how long we have to get that information to the public. so i think that we can all agree that there's a good deal of common ground here.

>> i think of us expected food accomplishments would be able to implement menu labeling from the final rule. but it has turned out that they have lots of questions that needs answering that go just beyond mere interpretation. and so guidance is necessary and that guidance is going to take a little bit longer because there will be an opportunity for public comment. clearly hearing people testifying today many of them don't have a full understanding of what's required. 34,000 combinations of peaizza is not required by law. some of the other things about having ten different signs in the convenience store is not required by law. there's clearly misunderstanding about what the law requires, and the guidance will help to clarify that. i think also as some of them become more familiar with the the regulations they'll realize this is not as burdensome as they think it is. just like the restaurants did ten years agso when i started

working on menu labeling. i heard the same complaints for the restaurant industry. once they started to do it, they realized it's not as complicated as it seemed. the customers really like it use it and it's helping them to make lower calorie choices when they want to. >> i appreciate that. >> mr. chairman, i ask that the letter that a lot of senators and representatives put in on the record. >> and i have a letter from wegman's put in the record. >> just a last question. i guess maybe other states have gone their own way on this and already as we've heard, implemented labeling requirements for convenience stores, grocery stores everything. so how are you -- have you dealt with that so far and is there

an opportunity to make it easier for you guys to compete in different venues? >> sure, we originally and always have agreed that a federal preemptive law is a good idea. we have been dealing with the patchwork of different municipalities and changes. but my argument isn't about how difficult it is to get the 34 million ways up. i do that online. any pizza you can concoct in your head, i can give you the calories for that slice. i want to do that more my consumers. what i don't want to do is retrofit onto a menu board just to fit in the box of the law, to say, well, put ranges. you know you don't have to put all 34 million. the law doesn't make you do that. that's true. but i want to do that. i want to do that because it's the right thing to do. i don't want to put ranges that consumers will not understand and make my small business

franchisees pay for that. >> very good. with that i yield back. >> chair thanks the the gentleman. now recognize the gentleman from pennsylvania mr. murphy. >> thank you mr. chairman. it's an important panel. we're dealing with obesity in america. none of us want to have the the epidemic of obesity and the problem it brings along with us. there's a lot more that goes with us. there's a couple of schools i've been monitoring over the years. one is a very famous study with nape naperville schools outside of chicago. they required fiscal activity, intensive, not just battle ball throw the ball get it so you're not doing anything. but real cardiovascular activity. and their reading scores and

mathematical scores went up dramatically. but it does raise other issues. so calories itself i'm concerned is a passive and small number. and if you look at studies out there that cause obesity, genetics, family history, anyone of the person, pregnancy sleep levels emotional wellness, medications they're on. other health conditions such as thyroid, adrenal gland functioning, smoking. anybody propose we put all those things on the message boards, too? because those are going to be much more predictive. if what you do is sit in front of your tv and eat our food and that's all you do, you will get fat. i don't care what restaurant it is. i get concern that had we're taking out -- pardon the pun, such a small slice of information here, that we're not getting americans the information, get off your butt and move. that's what it ought to be. i like it when some restaurants

say that some boxes of cereal say that. good for them. that's a powerful message for kids. i look at how the messages go through and we're going to have things not get the the whole thing out. for example, i understand the daily chef specials will be exempt from this. is that true? is it more -- and why it is more difficult to provide nutritional information in a grocery or convenience store than a restaurant? can someone tell me that? >> yes, sir, i think our concerns are and i think mrs. wootin said it wouldn't be hard well, i may need new lawyers because mine advise me i do. and when i read the regulations it's any place adjacent. so any place i offer food that would include the fountain drink on this side of the building, again, adjacent to that product. thest the number of menu boards

and postings i would have to have and the enormous combination. i truly believe it would be information overload for consumers. >> you compete for customers against traditional restaurants, too? >> my particular stores do not. we offer limited food offerings. but we operate rural -- >> prepared food? >> prepared food yes, sir. >> they actually have many fewer items than most convenience stores than at a lot of sit-down chain restaurants. so they'll have fewer items to analyze. and they don't have to send the items to a lab, which is the kogs cost estimates that you've seen. you can run them through menu analysis software or get them from a cook book. >> and those of you with online or kiosk ordering, part of this, are we going to have the technology to provide that information with the kiosk when you say i want special number one? is that what we're going to be doing? zbr the calorie information disclosure is tied through the

method through which the food service establishments provide information. so if you're a restaurant that has a printed many enyou eded menu, the calories would be there. if you have foods on display, like your donuts on display, the calories would be next to each donut. so the way the information is provided will depend on the way the food service establishment decides to give information to their customers about what's available and the price. >> but there's individual reactions, too. it's different you say if you smoke, you have a high percentage risk you're going to get an illness from that. not everybody who smokes get cancer. it's a high percentage. not everybody who gets cancer smokes. do we reach o point where we give people a false sense of security? i'm more concerned about kids that are not moving. because it's that formula. if you take in the same amount of calories as you burn, you don't gain weight. if you take in more than you

burn, you gain weight. et cetera. i think we have a long way to go on this in terms of other thing with health promotion. i see my time is up. >> chair thanks the gentleman. members are advised. we are now voting on the floor. so we'll keep watching the vote total and i'll get us over there in time. ranking member submit another letter for uc request to be submitted to the record, signed by congressman welsh kilmer, and schrader, to secretary burwell, without objection, it will be entered in the record. and chair recognizes the gentle lady from illinois for question. >> thank you mr. chairman. there's a little bit of deja vu for me. my career, it seems -- no offense, starteded in the grocery store 45 years ago when a small group of housewives wanted to know how old our food was because everything was code

dated. and we did -- we found things in the grocery stores dates weeks, years beyond the dates. now everybody looks at the dates. i like to watch people check the the milk dates which they do. maybe he should. maybe we all should. and i would to suggest in terms of pizza. if there were a board that said on a slice of pizza this is how much sausage adds to the slice, this is how much pepperoni adds to the slice? i can figure out if i get a sausage or pepperoni pizza or if there's a difference at all. this is not hard.

and i'm sorry it's not hard to list the additions na you have on a pizza so i can check and see which is the better choice if the i'm watching calories. there may be a genter difference here, too. i don't know a woman who doesn't look at the calories on food that we're buying. and we all should. in terms of grocery stores, many serve as catering also. why on catering menu would would it be harder to list the calories? i would make decisions. i do get catering things for the grocery store. i would like to know that. is what is the difference between -- if there is one, a ham sandwich a turkey sandwich and that kind of thing when i'm having a party, the cost of obesity is -- just for the health care cost, is projected

to be $344 billion by 2k0 18. so even if you don't care about die beetsz and all the other related things to oo beesty, we ought the to be caring about the cost of, you know what it costs us, what it costs our health care systems to treat obesity. enthat, i think, would be one of the most important pieces of information. so i don't quite understand the problem here. i did want to ask -- yeah. why is this not a simple idea? and the fda actually suggested it. >> well, to do as you suggest, to put the the information that you just described on a menu board, it would be very very hard to read and it would be a little bit like a tree falling in the forest and nobody hearing it. >> wait, excuse me. i'm sorry. you've got price and you've got

calories, you know, these arguments are just silly to me. >> well, there's nobody in the the store virtually almost nobody in the store to look at the the suggestions that you're making. but i do want to do exactly as you sunlight and as you started out in the grocery store i want to give you that precise information online. >> no, no no. it wasn't saying that about the grocery store. now if you go to the grocery store, lucky us, you see that date, expiration date, use by date on the product. and believe me people want it. >> and we have it. we've been disclosing it voluntarily for 14 years. >> online. >> i care about young people, too. but i'm telling you, of course juvenile diabetes and juvenile diabetes is a problem.

but it's certainly more than just young people. i wonder if you want to comment dr. wootin. there are a lot of people going into pizza restaurants. those people who do go in have the right to nutrition information, just like those ordering online. if they don't think it matters and they don't need a menu board and list out all the opgoptions there. if they have a menu board and think people need to know what's on the menu and list the prices, then they need to post the calories. obesity is really one of the most pressing public health problems. >> when i order pizza, there's also a menu usually attached to it so i can do it by phone or online again. why not on that menu just list that? >> that's what we're proposing in our legislation. we're proposing we bring the the calorie information right on the online menu. >> no, no, no. when i get the pizza there's usually a paper menu attached to

it. why couldn't it be on that? a carry-out menu? >> we consider those to be promotional materials. they're ads with fliers that say order this special. which is one of the other problems with legislation for us and many other restaurants. >> chair thanks the gentle lady. we have eight minutes left in the vote. >> thank you chairman. and i must admit, i too do look at the calorie counts, and my democrat colleague and i, loretta sanchez i think probably share that in common is what we're trying to do and why we've been working with everyone to accomplish the goal of providing this information in a common sense way. that's the purpose of the legislation, to accomplish the goal of the kol ree counts in a common sense way. i appreciate everyone being here today. wanted to start with miss hub bard. i understand you own almost 300

stores. is that correct? >> yes, man'am. >> did you purchase them at once? >> no we been in business for 15 years. we've built some in 1970. we acquired many stores and our krurks model has changed. >> are they exactly the same on the inside? >> none of them. >> do do you sell the exact same stuff? >> no because we are operating in four states and different markets, and the consumer's demand and competition would merit different servings at different stores. >> so it possible you may need to buy design and install a different menu board at each location? >> essentially every single location yes, ma'am. >> how much do you think this will cost you? >> trying to put, you know, trying to figure out compliance and how much different menus we have, we think it will easily hit a million dollars. >> thank you. next i wanted to go to miss little from domino's.

a bipartisan group of house and senator members sent a letter to the the fda requesting a one-year delay on the enforcement of the reallation. -- regulation. do you support a delay on the enforcement of the regulation? >> we support and appreciate that. however, we do not think thest the solution. we really believe we need a legislative fix. >> do you think even with a delay you and your franchisees could be able to comply with the regulation? >> we could put ranges of calories own menu boards that would not make sense to consumers and that would cost the maul franchisees a lot of money. we could do that yes. . >> do you think that others in the community feel the same way? >> i think the smaller the company, the more difficult it becomes because of the cost of compliance. >> as the rule is currently written, could you or one of your store managers potentially

be criminally charged for failing to comply? >> the way the law is currently written, there are criminal penalties because you have to certify that the the information is correct both at the corporate level, and at every store. there are 75,000 pizza stores in the united states. so that's a lot of paperwork, one. and there's a lot of teenagers who make handmade products and even though we have very precise recipes. they can be off if they're heavy handed with the the cheese or if they don't put as many pepperonis on, it's not the same calories exactly. i don't think that warrants sending a kid to jail. >> thank you. next i wanted to ask, who is responsible for having the correct calorie count atmanager or someone in the corporate office? >> if it's something coming out from the central menu something

most restaurants will carry that's something we at the corp. at office will do. there are thicks like manager specials. those would be exempt, is our understanding. >> if the fda or local law enforcement officer were to come in and find that for example, a donut had been oversprinkled and did not comply with the posted calorie count and was outside the allowable standard who would be at fault? the reasonable basis standard you shoulded eded eded -- under the fda protects all of us. they understand when making food there will be errors. my understanding is this is about any penalties are there to try to go of anybody who would dlibly mislead the public. >> is it possible one of your employees could be potentially charged with a criminal charge. >> no that's not our understanding. that's incorrect. >> who do you think would

receive the citation or criminal charge? >> our understanding -- we're still waiting for more guidance on that. but what we understand is that information would be given to us and give us time to correct that. >> and then i wanted to ask miss little, i would say the two of you are quite different and different from others on the panel, do you think this regulation tries to treat entities kwi different in a coo cookie cutter fashion that are quite different? >> yes. >> yes. >> okay, thank you. >> chair recognizes gentleman mr. griffith five minutes for questions. >> thank you great to see you delegate. i appreciate you coming to capitol hill to bring wisdom

from south virginia up here. is there anything you wanted to talk about that you haven't had an opportunity to talk about? >> thank you i would say this has been a very frustrating process. >> you're not talking about the hearing? >> no, the hearing has been smooth as silk. but the process throughout this whole flushing out of this has been difficult because we meet with fda on a regular basis on a wide variety of topics. this has been one particular topic in which they have been absolutely unwilling to meet or communicate. so here we are discussing a delay versus some clarity and reasonable flexibility. it has been a very frustrating process. we do appreciate the opportunity to be here today to air our side of this story. >> well, thank you very much for being here. i'll ask both you and miss little. the concerns about -- we've heard both today the concerns about somebody being charged with a felony.

i guess miss hubbard as well. now sbebt is a good thing. but as a law maimer for a number of years, oo long time in the virginia legislature. if you don't make it clear, somebody will misinterpret the intent, and while the intent may not be to charge your worker with a felony because they get a little excited with the cheese on the pizza or something where they don't follow the exact recipe, you said the way it's currently written they could be charged. is it a problem of the difference between the wording of the statute and the intent or do you disagree completely? >> well, i'm not a lawyer but it's my understanding this falls under the food and drug cosmetic act. and under this there's sort of a presumption of guilt ahead of time. there are criminal penalties that could be put on folks, and i -- >> so you might like to see words like intentionally and

representatively or a pattern of -- >> correct. and i agree with mr. quinn. it has been a frustrating experience waiting for rules from fda and i frankly don't trust that the ultimate outcome of the rules will be correct. so i really believe that we need this fix. >> well, i appreciate that. i would probably have more questions for you. the votes are on the floor. i know the the chairman has been very patient to let me have this time. >> i yield back. >> chair mid-atlantics the gentleman. the time has expired on the floor. we have additional questions. i'm sure members will is. we'll submit those to you in writing if you would please respond. this has been very interesting and informative hearing. i remind members they have ten business days to submit questions for the record. members should submit questions

by the close of business on thursday june 18th. so thank you for your patience, your testimony and it's time for lunch. with that excellent hearing, without objection, the sub committee is adjourned. you can watch this h hearing again any time on our website c-span.org. more on this issue of menu labeling guidelines from the

hill news. to address what critics say is a costly legislation. legislation was introduced in april to exempt most nonrestaurant businesses from having to comply with the rule set to take effect on december 1. the new labeling requirements would only apply to companies that make more than 50% of their revenue from selling prepared foods. the lawmaker same says it aims to provide clarity and flexibility for small businesses. and our road to the white house coverage continues today at 12:30 p.m. as rick perry announces his presidential bid making this his second run for the gop nomination. it will followed by your phone calls. live coverage begins at 12:30 p.m. lincoln time. yesterday the former u.s.

senator and governor of rhode island announced his presidential candidacy. he was gov from from 2011 until 2015 running as an independent before becoming a democrat in 2012. before that he served as a republican in the u.s. smat before losing the seat to senator sheldon white house in the 2006 election. he made his announcement at george mason university in arlington, virginia. good evening and thank you for coming. i'm the dean of school for policy and government and international affairs here at george mason university. this is the beginning of a speaker series that we have. politics, people and issues. tomorrow morning former senator jim webb will be here. at 10:30. i don't know if he'll make any significant announcement s, but he will be talking about important policy issues.

so i would like to turn this over to bob gutman, the director of our center for politics and foreign relations, and he will introduce our distinguished speaker for this evening. thank you. bob? >> i want to thank everybody for coming. we have a new center on politics and foreign relations. and we have invited all the presidential possibilities, not candidates, and we'll have a series of events through the next year. and so we'll be covering this. m so anybody interested. contact us at gmu.edu. tonight we're going to launch a series. invited former governor of rooi and former senator from rooi to be our inaugural speaker. we invited him to speak on foreign policy issues, and by

the number of people here he might say something else. i'm not quite sure. there may be some kind of announcement other than foreign policy. of all the times i've covered american pollices this is the first person who is a farrier running for president of the united states. if you don't know what a farrier is governor chaffey will tell you. welcome governor chafee. >> thank you bob and mark very much. a farrier puts shoes on horses. after college i worked on the horse racetrack for seven years. great experience in my life. very valuable experience in my life. and it is a great pleasure to be here. and thank you for inviting me. mixing foreign policy and politics is an invitation i could not pass up. it's a pleasure to be here for the george mason university. which is named for one of the many great contributors to the best form of government on

earth. as prescribed by our constitution, which george mason helped to write. we will be electing a new president in 2016. i enjoy challenges, and certainly we have many facing america. today i'm formally entering the race for the democratic nomination for president. thank you. [ applause ] if we, as leaders, show good judgment and make good decisions, we can fix much of what is ailing us. we must deliberately and carefully extricate ourselves from expensive wars. just think of how better this money could be spent, for instance our transportation network is deteriorateing and becoming dangerous. we should be increasing our investment and priority in public schools and colleges. this is especially important in some of our cities.

where there's a gnawing sense of hopelessness, racial injustice and economic disparity. we can and should do better for native americans new americans and disadvantaged americans. let's keep pushing to get health care coverage to more of the uninsured. we can address climate change and extreme weather while protecting american jobs. i believe that these priorities, education, infrastructure health care, environmental stewardship, and a strong middle class are americans' priorities. i'm also running for president because we need to be very smart in these volatile times oversees. i would like to talk about how we found ourselves in the destructive and expensive is cay yosz in the middle east and

north africa. and then offer my views on seeking a peaceful resolution. there were 230 senators who voted against the iraq war in october of 2002. 18 of us are still alive. and i'm sure every one of us that has hair own reasons for voting know. i would like to share my primary three. the first reason is that the long, painful chapter of the vietnam era was finally ending. this is my generation. and the very last thing i wanted was any return to the horrific bundling of events into which we put our brave fighting men and women. in fact, we had a prshs moment in time where a lasting peace was within our grasp. too many senators forgot too quickly about the tragedy of

vietnam. the second reason that i've learned, the second reason i voted against the a iraq war resolution was that i learned in the first nine months of the bush/cheney administration, prior to september 11th not to trust them. as a candidate governor bush said many things for the candidate only. for example, i'm a uniter, not a divider. he said very clearly that his foreign policy would be humble, not arrogant. and he promiseded to regulate carbon dioxide. these promises were all broken in the early days of his administration. and sadly the lies never stopped. this was an administration not to be trusted. my third reason for voting bense ginge

ging against the war was similar. many of the the leaders were writing about regime change in iraq and american unilateralism for years. they wrote about it in the 1992 defense planning guide. in the 1996 report to prime minister netanyahu. in the 1997 project for a new american century and the 1998 letter to president clinton. a little or a vote during the war in 2002, i read an article in "the guardian" by brian whitakerment whitaker. listen to this -- "in a televised speech last week president hosni mubarak of egypt predicted devastating consequences for the middle east if iraq is attacked. we fear a state of disorder and chaos may prevail in the region," he said. "mr. mubarak is an old-fashioned arab leader in the brave new

post september 11th world he doesn't quite get it. what on earth did he expect the pentagon hawks to do when they heard his words of warning? throw up the hands in dismay? gee, thanks, hosni, we never thought of that. better call the whole thing off right away. they are probably still splitting their sides with laughter in the pentagon. mr. mubarak and the hawks do agree on one thing -- war with iraq could spell disaster for several regimes in middle east. mr. mubarak believes that would be bad. the hawks, though believe that would be good. for the hawks disorder and chaos sweeping through the region would not be an unfortunate side effect of the war with iraq but a sign that everything is going according to plan." it's bad enough that the so-called neo-con says, most of whom had never experienced the

horror of war were so gung-ho, but worse yet of they didn't have the guts to argue the point straight up to the american people. they knew there were no weapons of mass destruction but wanted their war badly enough to purposely deceive us. as aftering "the guardian" article, i ask for a briefing from the cia. i had to vote in a couple of week, i said show me everything you have on weapons of mass destruction. so i went down to the cia in langley. after an hour-long presentation the answer of not much. flawed intelligence is completely inaccurate. there was no intelligence, believe me. i saw everything they. it's heartbreaking that more of my colleagues failed to do their

homework. and those who sold us on the false premise of weapons of mass destruction are still key advisers to presidential campaigns today. so now without a doubt we have repair work to do in the middle east and north africa. we have to change our thinking. we have to find a way to wage peace. let's have a rewrite of the neo-cons' project for american century. it is essentially the opposite of everything proposed in the original. we will be honest and tell the truth. we will be a good international partner and respect international agreements. the 70th anniversary of the united nations is june 26th in a few weeks. and the preamble to the u.n. charter says to unite our strength, to maintain peace and

security. we can do that -- unite our strength to maintain peace and security. let's reinvigorate the united nations and make the next 70 years even better. as part of our effort to wage peace in this new american century, let's be bold. some of our bravest and most patriotic americans are professional diplomats stationed all over the world. it isn't an easy career. they deserve the best in support and respect. as president, i would institute a ban on ambassadorship for sale. that means no more posts going big political donors. i want the best trained people doing this important work. it's critical that the integrity of the office of secretary of state never be questioned. i want america to be a leader and an inspiration for civilized

behavior in this new century. we will abietd by the eneve -- abide by the geneva conventions which means we will not torture prisoners. our sacred constitution requires a warrant before unreasonable searches which includes our phone records. let's enforce that and while we're at it, allow edward snowden to come home. extra judicial assassinations by drone sfriex aretrikes are not working. many blame them for upheaval. and pakistan is too far aggressive a player to antagonize with these nefarious activities. they are not worth the collateral damage and toxic hatred they spread. let's stop them. for me, waging peace includes negotiating fair trade agreements that set standards for labor practices, environmental protections preventing currency

manipulation and protection of intellectual property among others. the transpacific partnership has the potential to set fair guidelines for the robust commerce taking place in the pacific rim. since the breakup of the soviet union, many of the soviet republics, especially ukraine, have been caught in a tug-of-war between europe and russia. i believe stronger efforts should be made to encourage russian integration into the family of advanced industrial nations with the objective of reducing tensions with -- between russia and its neighbors. to wage peace i would repair relationships with venezuela and ecuador. asrapprochement, let's unites with all our experience to rethink the war on drugs.

obviously irrad indication, substitution, and interdiction aren't working. let's have an active open-minded approach to drug trafficking that can corrupt everything from the banks to the law enforcement in our hemisphere. appropriately, the united nations is planning a special general assembly meeting next year on the subject. in this new american century, let's join the many countries who have banned capital punishment. congratulations to nebraska for your leadership. earlier i said let's be bold. let's join the rest of the world and go metric. i happen to live in canada, and they completed the process. believe me it's easy. doesn't take long before 34 degrees is hot.

even myanmar, liberia and the united states aren't metric and it will help our economy. in this new american century, it's very important to have a ready and strong military. the eagle on our great seal hold both arrows and an olive branch. let's lead responsibly with a commitment to our unwavering defense and our peaceful purposes. nobel peace prize laureate dr. martin luther king jr. said it best -- "i refuse to accept the cynical notion that nation after nation must spiral down a militaristic stairway into the hell of thermonuclear destruction destruction." he asked, "where do we go from here? chaos or community?"

our challenges are many and formidable. let's wage peace in this new american century. thank you for inviting me. [ applause ] >> i have a question -- >> one second. we actually have microphones. right in the middle. >> hello. so you said earlier that you wanted to establish more ftas as a way of -- you know, we establish good trade agreements and potential intellectual property rights. so my question is obviously, we can work out agreements with

other country. but with the u.s., agriculture the u.s. heavily subsidizes agricultural products and in turn dump it on other economies to where the farmers in these other economies are trying to compete really really hard to solve their products when there are other people in their countries that can easily go by the u.s. -- buy the u.s. products because they're so much cheaper. in the trade agreements would this involve the u.s. not dumping its subsidized agricultural products or any other products on the kungscountries that we have agreements with? >> good question. what's your name? >> olivia. >> olivia great question. i think that's the whole point, to create a level playing field n negotiating free trade agreements. that's exactly the point. of course, many subsidies will take congressional action that is -- when i was in the united states senate, something we dealt with many, many times. very controversial some subsidies, for agricultural products in particular.

good question. >> hello. sorry. >> i'm ready. >> okay. if you do become president what will your first priority be during your term? >> as i said in my statement here of course domestic issues are critical what's happening in inner cities and with our middle class and disparity of wealth. what's happening with climate change, it's all very important. of course, right there at the top is what's happening overseas also in some wars that are expensive, very destructive. as i said, i think we entered into very unnecessarily under fall premises. we've got to fix that which then provides some of the opportunity and revenue to sbout more beneficial ways in my view. >> thank you. >> good question. yes, sir?

>> governor, you are a strong supporter for lgbt rights. as u.s. senator you signed into law the -- transgender people in the military, as president would you end that? >> yes, i've had a great record of supporting lgbt issues. to me, it wasn't only a civil rights issue bawl an economic issue. and you certainly want a tolerant society if you want to attract the best people to stimulate the economy. as governor, i pushed for marriage equality gay marriage in my state. it was very very controversial. we finally got through. i always argue not only was it fair, the civil rights issue and doing the right thing but it was going to help our economy. same is relevant to the military, we want the best.

and to your question about transgendered, absolutely, we want the best fighting men and women in our military. >> you would lift the ban? >> yes. >> first, governor after announcing your candidacy for the democratic nomination, i'm sure you thought about the progressive wing and the growing problems of income inequality. first, what do you think it mean to be a progressive? two, do you consider yourself a progressive? second, what would you do to solve the growing problem of inequality in the united states? >> that's a -- one of the key quizzes of our time now what's happening with the struggling americans trying to get by and the college tuitions and debt they come out of college with, the income inequality. many, many americans are doing fabulously. i think the key was when i came into the senate we had previous administrations going back to george h.w. bush and president clinton that fought to get to

surpluses. president bush came in with richard cheney. all of a sudden there were monstrous tax cuts. $1.6 trillion tax cuts which favored the wealthy. it made no sense to me. and i voted against every single one with the bush/cheney tax cuts when they came in. we finally got the surpluses. the last thing to do -- and the wealthy are doing fine -- is get back into deficits and widen the disparity of wealth. so it's -- a lot of it is in tax policy. i address this income inequality. there's a lot of other ways, raising the minimum wage which i voted for time and time again, every time i was in the senate. as governor we raised it three times. in my administration, so there are different ways. certainly tax policy is one of the very important ways to address disparity of wealth and good education. making sure we keep our tuitions down so people can afford to go not only to the local george masons of the world but community colleges and all the

public institutions with low tuitions. that's what made america great. going to the local public institution of higher education and not come without enormous debt. thank you. good question. let me go to a different part of the room if i could. >> yes, sir. your comments on military intervention i found quite interesting. what are your thoughts about using the nearly prevent genocide and crimes against humanity? for example, president obama's decision to bomb isil when they were attempting to exterminate the yazidis on mt. sinjar -- >> every place is different. n how and how you intervene is going to depend on the roekzlocation. in the senate, they had many liberians in rhode island. we have one of the largest liberian populations -- west africa in rhode island. it's very interesting what's

happening in liberia. the civil war. and to -- threw a little intervention mostly by the understanding i'd say coming into liberia, they were able to stop the long, brutal horrendous war in liberia. it depends on the location, how we're going intervene. right now after loss of credibility, no weapons of mass destruction in iraq, i think it's difficult for the united states to intervene because of that tremendous loss of credibility that we have in the region. sir? >> over the past couple of months, american allies in the middle east such as saudi arabia and israel have expressed hesitation, apprehension even hostility toward american policies in the region. with this idea of waging peace, what role do you see american allies not just in the middle east but in europe, asia globally, what role do you see

them playing? >> that's another key question that we face right now. that's the big international question. how do we fix this. the neo-cons that gave us the chaos that everything's going according to plan. and my fear, as i said that the same people that advocated for this are now advising other presidential campaigns including the main democratic candidate. so to your question, it's going to take international cooperation whether it's as you mentioned, saudi arabia, israel iran, russia, everybody in the region pakistan. the united states, europeans but that's my proposal. we reinvigorate the united nations and see what comes out of those discussions. >> governor -- >> certainly have chaos in the region now and across north

africa, libya, it's happening in libya in boko hardam, anything to. >> the way our nation is approaching the war on drugs isn't working. what do you believe is the best course of action to approaching? >> well, i don't -- to be honest, i want to listen to those people in the neighborhood neighborhood, and as i said the sungs going to have next year a special general assembly on the issue. i think that's exactly what should be happening. let's get in and combine our collective thoughts and what has worked what hasn't. certainly eradication many of the countries abandoning that this spring. they don't want it anymore. interdiction. some of the countries like ecuador has kicked us out of our post on the seashore of ecuador. it's a substitution the common sense of if you can make more money doing one thing, it's going to be hard to substitute

for something you're not growing. those have been the key of our approach to the drug trafficking. so i think getting us together uruguay is doing revolutionary thing with their laws regarding this trafficking. but without a doubt, what i said, the corruption that gets into the courts, into the bank the law enforcement undermines everything that we want to happen. everything good that we could want to happen in the region. >> governor? >> hi. i just had a question. how would you help the working poor those who are truly suffering in the united states, the homeless persons with mental illness? also how would you decrease the huge amount of people who are imprisoned and being every year more and more and more being imprisoned in the united states?

>> as i said, when i talk about helping in different ways, i said in my speech helping disadvantaged americans, that the population you're talking about. i'd like to find a way to pay for. it how are we going to pay for beneficial social problems? how are we going to pay for good educational programs? how are we going to pay for that safety net. so what i'm proposing sheer how to pay for it. let's get out of these wars and redirect those funds and revenues back to growing the middle class and giving the disadvantaged americans new americans, native americans on the reservations, a better life. we can do it. >> governor? hello, governor. i'm glad you just brought that up. earlier on in your statement you mentioned that you wanted to reform the relationship with native americans as well as new americans. what specific ideas do you have for this relationship and how

does it apply to your platform? >> well, for new americans a path to citizenship is the first thing we want to accomplish. for the 11 million or so that are out there living in the shadows. get a path to citizenship. and i was one of the original co-sponsors of the bill back when i was in the senate offered by john mccain from a border state of arizona and ted kennedy, the mccain/kennedy bill. path to citizenship. and there were only nine of us originally sponsored. i was one of the nine bipartisan group. that's the first thing, for the native americans on the reservation, deep, deep social issues that we have to address. and it always takes resources. and a caring and a commitment. and i believe we as americans should do that. >> hello, governor. many nations and experts across the globe have set the standard of global warming to be below two degrees sent grade. what policies would you enact or propose to make sure the united states does its fair share in

meeting the standard? >> the first way to address climate change is in our power plants. that's the -- the biggest way we can address climate change and the carbon dioxide coming out of our electricity-generating power plants. when i was in the senate tom carper from delaware and his a bill to do that the carper/chafee bill. and as i mentioned, president bush promised to designate carbon dioxide as the fourth pollutant. he promised in a campaign speech. and i'll tell a quick story. he made the former governor of new jersey, governor whitman, his epa administrator and governor whitman administrator whitman, started to go around the country on sunday talk shows and the like talking about how we were going to regulates carbon dioxide. and i was at a republican -- back when i was a republican a republican breakfast with the senators, and vice president

cheney attended. this was very early days, but a month into the administration. governor whitman had been going around, and the senators were all over, the republican senators were all over the vice president. vice president cheney. what is kristi talking about carbon dioxide? he said, look, i'm going come out with my new energy policy and we're not going to regulate carbon dioxide. i just about fell off my chair. all the other senators stood up and started cheering -- yeah, yeah. cheering. and -- wait a second. didn't you promise? the campaign, governor whitman, didn't she take you on your word? when i talk about not trusting wms, weapons of mass destruction, that's a big reason i don't. you don't go before the people and say something when you're campaigning and then change it just weeks into your administration. so to answer your question how do we address climate change? the biggest way is through putting cash dock as a pollutant on the electricity generating power plants around the country.

that's a major cause right now. >> as you work to moving from chaos to community, do you have any plans to promote racial integration in america? and in particular, to tackle the problems of housing discrimination and residential segregation that's been going on for about 100 years now? >> yes. to think that i quoted dr. martin luther king in 1964 all the work the nonviolent marches did, all the benefits that came out of that and we're still struggling with this issue. we have to refocus. what's happened in baltimore, what's happened in ferguson, what's happened in north charleston. helps us to refocus on the issue. in my view, the short-term fixes don't work. the zero tolerance types of things, they don't work. we see that. it's going to be a long term approach. and my view is education

investment in education in these inner cities. a lot of it has to do with korean technical schools now, different opportunities. let's mix in the opportunities that are now called career and technical schools. big effort. getting youngsters to stay through and something they like enjoy, and give them those options, and creating technical schools can't do that. good new initiative. a rethinking of how we can keep the youngsters from getting into the gangs and hopelessness and disenfranchisement. and the brutality by police that occurs by a few of them as they struggle with the gang issues. >> governor? >> yes? >> hi. recently there was a controversy over hillary clinton's e-mail scandal scandal, her server. what are your thoughts on the transparencyies? >> i think our diplomatic core

right now because of what happened with the lies and provocations on weapons of mass destruction and how other countries naturally why should they trust us? we weren't honest with them. we got into this war on fall pretends. so our state department has to justice be above all controversy. and it's regrettable to me what's happening now with emails, with the foundation, that affects decisionmaking coming out of state. we just can't have that. we have to repair our credibility. it starts with the diplomatic corps. >> hello -- >> just get back the respect and admiration of the international community. we still have a lot of it. we squandered a lot also. >> hi. earlier you mentioned that stronger efforts should be made to help normalize relationships between russia and its eastern european neighbors. what specifically would examples be things that could be done?

would that be reconsidering russia's reaction to the swift international banking system or lifting sanctions against russia? what are some of your thoughts on these issues? >> good questions. give me specifics right? well, after i left the senate and worked at the brown watson institute for international studies. while there i served on a board that advised ukraine on good government issues, so i've been there maybe a dozen times in kiev, the west, and donetsk in the east where all the fighting is now. every time i went there, i had this feeling about this tug-of-war. and it said -- to me, it didn't make sense. the cold war's over. the berlin wall has come down. like let's integrate russia. so these other countries aren't in this tug-of-war going on. and how do they do that? first don't make mistakes. i think we made mistakes with russia. at one time, as i said, before september 11th, we had the

possibility of a very, very peaceful world. and maybe i could take a second if i could. it helps answer this question -- when i was in the senate, the prime minister of italy came to address us in a joint session. so congressmen and senatorss gotgot -- senators got there. this is long, but i think it helps address your question. in 2001, before september 11, the early days of my second government, i was called to chair the g-8 summit in enzo a. after the conclusion of the summit's official program, the final dinner became a dinner among friends. at one point -- prime minister saying that. i'm sitting in my chair in the house of representatives listening to him. he said at one point that evening, i sat back slightly from the table almost an external observer in order to enjoy the cordial discussion among the leaders of the largest

industrial countries of the world. president bush of chatting amiably with the prime minister of japan, pearl harbor and her hurt were but a distant memory. prime minister blair was joking with chancellor schroeder and the president of the russian federation federation, vladimir putin, was also talking with president bush. the tragedy of the second world war and cold war which it lasted for so many years was forgotten. i felt great pleasure inside. i thought the world had in fact changed. and how different and peaceful of the world we were handing to our children. an age. lasting peace beckoned. i'm sitting, listening to him say that like, that's exactly how i felt. bush and schroeder and putin and kazumi and blair -- my gosh, he includes putin.

we had a chance, we made mistakes. we hit the restart button, hit the wrong label on the restart button, a big mistake in my view. d.a.p. diplomatic -- remember that incident? we have more repair work. get back, try and get back to what the prime minister of italy talked about. we can do. we had it in our hand at one time. an age of lasting peace for our children. what could be better than that? yes, sir? >> governor earlier during your speech you mentioned that switching to the metric system would be beneficial for our economy. i mean, such a switch would require change of road signs nationwide as well as speedometers. how would you explain that to an average american as well as how would it be beneficial for the economy? >> i think there's a couple of things here. one, it's a symbolic integration of ourselves into the

international community after the mistakes of the last 10 14 years. the mistakes that we have made internationally. so it's symbolic that we're going to do something different here in the united states. then of course for the economy. sflift all working in metric because they have to deal internationally. it's very hard. for many exporters and businesses to have to deal with two ways of measuring. and so economically we'll help pay for the signs. of course that question's a natural. of all the things we have to do in this country, how can you talk about changing sign and the costs that come with it? the economic benefit will help pay for that and why would canada do it? i was there in canada when they did it. why would they do it if there was an economic benefit? 34's hot.

yes, sir? >> governor, to elaborate on that switching to the metric system as he was saying that's hundreds of millions possibly fairly billions of dollars on the expense of the american economy. our current scientists are already using the metric system because they're scientists and have to use that just for world assimilation in terms of the scientific community. is it necessarily worth it to put a fairly strenuous economic burden on the economy just to switch over to the metric system? would that be worth it? >> similar question. i'm not saying we have to do it tomorrow but i think it should be something we aspire to in this new american century that i'm talking about where we reach out to the rest of the world,

we're not garntarrogant and unilateral as some propose we be. it's always america's way or the highway. and it's a symbolic -- don't just think canada wouldn't have done it if the cost was that high. it's not that hard. i hear you, there's a cost involved. i would argue that the economic benefits would outweigh it. and the symbolic benefits. >> mr. governor, you stated in the last couple of minutes that you feel we should bolster the diplomatic corps and also reinvigorate the u.n. how would you suggest that we address doing this given the recent american academy of diplomacy report on the diplomacy risk and systemic blurring of the foreign and civil service as a result of the qddr? and also the senate's objectstinance

in the civil right commission -- >> you got into some good specifics there. we'll say, i think it was former secretary gates who said our foreign policy is too militarized. and that's kind of what i'm seeing also. we need to rethink our department of state and how we act around the world and -- and become good listeners. it is so important. these people are so skilled. i sevened ed-- when i served on the committee, i was lucky to travel around the country. the people coming up in the service are knowledgeable, what's happening on the ground in these countries. and they're extremely valuable. too, what i proposed are efforts to wage peace. i want to empower them. think if you worked your whole career and somebody that happened to give a bunch of millions above you and becomes the ambassador of the country that you've been leading. i don't think that's rights.

>> hi, governor. you spoke on the law and foreign policy. right now china is one of the key players in the global economy, and u.s./china relations are more important than ever. what's your view china and its economic growth, its human rights record, and what do you envision for the future of u.s./china relations? >> they're kind of like the america of the industrial revolution. you're growing so fast and so we just have to understand that. the speed of what's happening in that country. i think understanding what's happening in their country, constant dialogue, i think we're doing a lot of the right things. i know what's happening with the south china sea and islands there. we keep work inging, currency dialogue. having mutually beneficial programs is the key. >> we have time for a couple

more questions. >> way in the back? >> my question is do you think america has a responsibility to help developing nations? for example, nepal, which just had a devastating earthquake, to develop their nation and help the economy grow? if so, if you were elected how would you show that you were doing something in order to help the developing nations? >> of course we have a role to play in the technology that we have in this country. we have that responsibility. but ultimately, i'm a big advocate of internationalism and reinvigorating the united nations. that's an area they excel with unicef and the programs in

helping in earthquakes expect tsunami and different disasters around the world. by virtue of our strength economically we have a role it play. we have over the years. >> we have over 11 million undocumented immigrants in america who struggle every day to find work, who face social discrimination. they're here justifying the american dream. what policy issues would you try to pass, or immigration reform would you try to see through so that these americans can find popular life here in america? >> i mentioned earlier mccain-kennedy. it's old but i was looking at it the other day. it's still relevant. it had all the parameters that help it get passed. i don't know why we couldn't get it passed back then. it's a -- not only a path to

citizenship but border security. i think there was some funding to help learn english. it had all the piece that's are good and to thwart some of the criticisms of helping our people living in the shadow get back into paying taxes and the normal life that we want everybody to have here. that's a -- >> one final question. the president of the united states and democratic nomination, what should the democrats -- what differentiates you from martin o'malley, bernie sanders, and hillary clinton? >> i'd like to say it's really three things. it's your record which i have a 30-year record at the local level. i was councilman, mayor, then i was governor, at the federal level, senator. i open my record to scrutiny. then it's your character. i open my trustworthiness over that 30 years into fulfilling

what i say on the campaign trail, to what i do when i'm elected. thirdly, your vision hopefully i've outlined a little of my vision, wherever america fits in the world and what -- how we can then use that better to help us here domestically. your record, that's what it should be judged on. how have you performed? and your character. have you been ethical and what's your vision? i think those are the three keys. that's what it should be. i'm happy to join the choices out there. [ applause ] >> thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you. good questions.

>> thank you. >> good luck on the trail. >> thank you very much.