captioning performed by vitac are given loans on cars should there be a requirement those loaners themselves before being loaned have no outstanding recalls? >> so thank you for raising that question, it comes up often of what people should do and we're telling people if there's concern about their takata inflator they should talk to their dealer or manufacturer about a loaner or rental car. >> recently congresswoman capps and myself introduced a bill that would prohibit a rental car

that receives a notification about any defect or non-compliance with federal motor vehicle safety standards to rent or sell the vehicle unless the defect is remedied. dr. rosekind, nhtsa has in the past supported similar legislation that prohibits rental companies from renting vehicles subject to a recall unless the defect is remedied. as the new nhtsa administrator do you continue to support this type of legislation? >> and the administration and secretary fox have done that as well through grow america which specifically has used car and rental car defect issues covered just that way. >> all right. you're very clear in your responses and i thank you for the manner in which you responded. thank you very much, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> chair thanks the gentleman. the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from florida, five minutes. >> thank you dr. rosekind for testifying today. it is my opinion that the takata

spi inflator rupture may have been, it's my understanding anyway that it may have been caused by high humidity. what is the minimum exposure period before an inflator is considered by takata to be at risk in a high humidity area, and if you have an opinion as to whether it was caused by hue humidity, i'd like to hear it as well. >> i'm going to put my ntsb hat on and say i'd be cautious saying probable cause at this point because there is no root cause but to your question there's no, there's absolutely data that shows humidity because of the moisture can have an effect on the inflator and we could get into the chemistry but your main question is what we've seen in the data, somewhere between 7.5 to about 12.3 years is where we're seeing that inflator can rupture. >> thank you. all right, next question is, i understand nhtsa is helping prioritize the most urgently

needed replacements to various parts of the country that need it most. in theory this approach would help manage a finite supply and ensure that the consumers who are most in danger are protected more quickly, but this phased approach does not appear to match with nhtsa's rollout may 19th which grabbed headlines by covering 34 million vehicles. my constituents are in a high humidity area, i represent florida, but it is unclear whether they can now obtain replacement parts and if not, at which point can they obtain replacement parts in the future, i'd like for to you answer that question. are replacement parts available now in florida but maybe not available in new jersey and other parts of the country. and again, are there enough replacement parts available, period? >> so first i would say safercar will let them know if they're checking that. they see a recall for the vehicle they need to call their

dealer. they will tell them if the part is available. for the second part no question that one of the issues that we have with our coordinated remedy program is to make sure sufficient supply of inflators are available across the country. >> thank you very much, and representative clark covered the additional questions so i appreciate it very much and i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentlelady from indiana, ms. brooks, five minutes for your questions, please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have to say when you've testified, dr. rosekind, that nhtsa was working hard or you testified that doing testings in your own facility of your own so you can verify the work takata is doing. can you give us a status update on the validation activities and is there a new nhtsa testing facility for these airbag inflators, can you just share with us what is happening with that progress?

>> thank you for asking about that, because previously what nhtsa did was to arrange to have data available to us but this provides us another resource to actually verify the testing, and any testing, so whether it's takata's or the independent coalition, we'll be able to look at all of that. we have a facility in ohio that allows us to do some testing but because of the inflator rupture, we talk about ballistics testing you got to blow them up and have them rupture. battel is helping us do that and we have a plan outlined so as of may 19th that plan is under way. how many have been tested by this point, i can't say, but we have our own independent testing being done by an outside laboratory to help us do that. >> so you are now using, because it required a different kind of testing than you had capabilities for, now using an outside tester? >> correct. >> and do you have any idea how

long the testing's been going on and how is it going? >> i'll get you specifics. i know the contract with battel was signed a while ago and the most important thing was to get a plan which as i tried to emphasize is not just, you know, we've tried to not just look at the root cause which is with everybody else. we're trying to focus on the remedy. i can get you information when the contract was signed, what the plan is and that should tell you what the calendar expectations are as well. >> thank you. so you have mentioned several times in your testimony today that we may never know the root cause and the root cause is a problem so problems associated with the beta inflators persisted for years and it feels as if we're not making any progress in determining. road cause. given that, how will we know, how will we satisfy you have enough data to determine the adequacy of the proposed remedy if it we don't know the root cause? >> often around nhtsa, even though they wonder why i keep bringing this up, while i was at the ntsb we investigated the 787 dreamliner boeing lithium ion battery fire. some people question whether the root cause was discovered. it required boeing coming up

with a solution without knowing the root cause, identifying the failure points, engineering a solution to that, testing it and now they're flying again very quickly. so we have that possibility, including the fact there are all kinds of airbags including takata airbags out there, that are not rupturing. between those two things there is an opportunity, without root cause to still get a solution. >> so essentially taking your experience from ntsb and how that would be the proposal that you'll use going forward with takata? >> yes, and let me just add, because i haven't had a chance to say this, you've just raised one of the core questions we've been asking since i've been there in january, how long do you wait. >> um-hum. >> i've been at the ntsb, we couldn't wait a year to come up with an answer or not come up with an answer so that is part of why we have pushed to basically take the driver's seat to get a focus on the remedy and the supply and all the other factors that will make a difference to get that safe airbag in everybody's vehicle. >> thank you. and thank you for your work on this.

you're right, we can't wait and so encourage your persistence in fighting for this, thank you. >> the chair thanks the gentle lady. the chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois. >> thank you mr. chairman and sir, thank you for being here and answering our questions. most of them have been asked. i just have a couple of ones, so i probably won't take all of my five minutes but you talk about the coordinated remedy program. what's going to be involved and when will you have a plan for acting as the central coordinator for the coordinated remedy program? >> so thanks, because that gives me a chance to really focus on the end game here. i keep talking about nhtsa sitting in the driver's seat. up until this point it was unclear how this was going to happen. now we have a plan to meet with the manufacturers and meeting with suppliers, we'll have joint meetings and our intent once that plan is together to have a meeting so there's transparency to the entire plan and schedule. we hope that hearing to occur in the early fall.

>> okay, all right and nhtsa with recall logistics recall expertise will lead this coordination or something you need to contract out? >> actually right now there's an internal team at nhtsa overseeing this so i have people from the defects/engineering group, a group that's dealing with the legal enforcement issues and communications, so those three groups have come together to basically provide oversight for the process. >> and do you believe that they have enough expertise to carry out this process, enough recall logistics expertise? >> at this point, yes, and i think during our development of a future plan, if we find other resources are needed, i'll be the first one to let everybody know to make sure that we get this done right. >> so if you don't have it, you'd be willing to look at outside whatever you need to get this done right. >> yes. >> you've answered pretty much all the questions i have, with that i yield back the three minutes remaining. >> the chair thanks the gentleman. you yield your remaining time to me?

>> yes, i'll yield it to you. >> and i thank the gentleman for that. mr. rosekind, you're probably aware last night at the rules committee we did the rule for the transportation appropriations bill, it will be on the floor either this week or next week. recognizing we were having this hearing today, i asked the subcommittee of the transportation subcommittee in appropriations if they would share with me the spending plan submitted to their subcommittee by nhtsa, every agency and department is required to submit a spending plan to the appropriations committee or appropriations subcommittee as they do their work and build the appropriations bills that we will then vote on. so i got to say what i was given is pretty sparse, so i am going

to give you the benefit of the doubt and if you would like to provide me with the spending plan that you provided to the appropriations subcommittee, i would be happy to review it, and review it with you, if you would like, chairman upton said, made reference to the fact that we need to make sure the appropriations are in line, it's been talked about, so again, i'll make this available to you, if it is as written, then that's fine. if you think there is a different spending plan that i should be looking at, i'll be happy to do that and again, i'll be happy to follow up with you and i do want to stress you've always been very good about keeping me as the chairman of the subcommittee informed about what you're doing and for that, i'm very grateful. i'm filibustering just a little bit because mr. engel is allegedly on his way here. let me just ask -- >> can i -- >> yes, oh, please. >> i want to thank you for that opportunity, because when we, the president's budget has much detail about new --

>> mr. rosekind, i have to interrupt you. the president's budget never gets a single vote. republican senate or house senate, republican or democrat, no one would even offer the president's budget up for a vote this year. so that is -- you know the president, and this is not unique to the obama administration, president bush's budget when i was here in the majority earlier, frequently those would not pass on the floor of the house or the senate. so sure, the president sends up a wish list that balances never and yes, it's got everything funded to a level that would be great if we lived in a world of unlimited resources, but you are the administrator. i've run a business. you understand that as the administrator sometimes you have to prioritize spending and that's what we really are looking for you to do, that's what we want to you do, just the same as the director of nih, just the same as dr. frieden at the cdc, we want to you prioritize and spend appropriately. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

this looks pretty thin to me, i welcome the chance to go through the spending plan with you and finally last year on a bipartisan basis, this committee requested that the government accountability office review nhtsa's internal structure procedures to assess the agency's ability to keep pace at the committee's hearing in december, deputy administrator friedman committed to cooperating with the government accountability officer's review. will you reaffirm this commitment to cooperate with gao in this review? >> absolutely. we already are. >> i appreciate it that very much. do you have any -- okay, at this point, we're going to have to forego questions by mr. engel and i apologize, we'll get his questions to you in writing and any member of the committee may have further questions but seeing there are no further members wishing to ask questions for this panel, i do want to thank administrator rosekind for being here today. this will conclude our first panel. we will take a brief recess to set up the second panel, thank

you, sir. >> you just heard from the committee back to order. thanks everyone for their patience and for taking time to be here today. we'll move into the second panel for today's hearing. we're going to follow the same format as the first. each witness will be given five minutes to summarize their opening statement, followed by questions from the members.

for our second panel we want to welcome the following witnesses. mr. kevin kennedy, executive vice president of north america takata. mr. david kelly, project director, independent testing coalition. mr. mitch bamwol, president and ceo of the automobile alliance manufacturers. and mr. john bozella, chief executive officer of global automakers. >> distinguished members of the subcommittee, i am honored to it be here on behalf of takata and our employees throughout the united states. for takata, safety is the core of who we are and what we do. we're proud that takata airbags

have saved thousands of lives and prevented serious injuries. hundreds of thousands of accidents. it is unacceptable to us for even one of our products to fail to perform as intended. we deeply regret each instance in which someone has been injured or killed. we are committed to doing everything in our power to address the safety concerns raised by airbag ruptures. our chairman has made that commitment personally to administrator rosekind. so let me tell you what we're doing. after months of testing and extensive analysis, we have agreed with nhtsa to take broad actions in conjunction with automakers to respond to your concerns and those of the public. we have recommended dramatically expanded recalls, including national recalls, that go well beyond what is suggested by the science and testing. most of the ruptures on the road and all of the fatalities in the u.s. have involved older takata

driver airbag inflators with bat wing shaped propellants that were originally subjected to previous recalls. most of those have incurred in the regions of the country with high heat and absolute humidity. nevertheless, we are proposing expanded national recalls to replace all of these bat wing driver inflators, from the start of production through the end of production in any vehicle registered anywhere in the united states. the recommended recalls will proceed in stages. the final stage will include the replacement of all bat wing driver inflators previously installed as remedy parts. takata will cease producing the bat wing driver inflators. all together. there have been far fewer field ruptures involving passenger airbags. nevertheless, our agreement with nhtsa also contemplates significantly expanded recalls

for passenger airbag inflators, including a nationwide recall for one type of inflator. the recalls to the other passenger inflators will cover specific vehicle models ever registered in the high absolute humidity states but with the potential for the recalls to expand to other states if ordered by nhtsa. we will continue to test inflators beyond the scope of the recalls to determine whether further action is appropriate. for both driver and passenger airbags, all analyses to date indicates that the potentials for rupturing is limited to an extremely small fraction of older inflators. that is not meant to minimize the issue. one rupture is too many. it does explain, however, why takata's finally state that a defect may arise in some of the deflators. not all of the inflators covered by the proposed recalls are

defective. based on 50,000 tests to date and research involving leading experts from around the world, our best current judgment is that the potential for rupture is related to long-term exposure over many years to persistent conditions of high heat and high absolute humidity as well as other potential factors including possible manufacturing and vehicle specific issues. nonetheless, we have proposed a broader remedy program. nhtsa will play a central role in overseeing this remedy program. takata will prepare a plan for nhtsa outlining steps to help determine the safety and expected service life of the remedy parts. we will also work with nhtsa and our customers to get the word out to consumers to help maximize recall completion rates. in addition to increasing our own testing, we are actively supporting the testing work of the automakers and nhtsa. we also continue to support the work of the independent quality assurance panel led by former

secretary of transportation sam skinner. and we are continually ramping up our production of replacement kits. in december we were producing approximately 350,000 kits per month. we are now producing more than 700,000, and by september we expect our monthly production to reach 1 million units. half of the replacement kits we shipped last month contained inflators made by other suppliers, and by the end of the year we expect that to reach 70%. we have confidence in the inflators we are making today, the integrity of our engineering and manufacturing, and we believe that properly made and installed, these inflators will work as designed to save lives. we will continue to do everything we can to ensure uncompromised safety and the success of the recall efforts and we will keep congress, nhtsa and the public updated on our progress. thank you, mr. chairman. >> chair thanks the gentleman.

mr. kelly, recognized for your statement. >> chairman, ranking member, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to appear for you to discuss the activities of the independent testing coalition. the itc is comprised of ten automakers that have takata airbags in their passenger vehicles and is committed to an independent and comprehensive investigation of the technical issues associated with takata airbag inflators and look forward to the results of this process, as we focus on the safety, security and peace of mind of all motorists. our primary goal is to find the root cause of this problem. as we have started to look at this issue of energetic disassembling, it is apparent there is no silver bullet or easy solution to be found. public needs to understand experts have been studying this problem for years. if this was anything but the complex project that it is, a

root cause would have been identified by now. unfortunately, that is not the case and a final determination is not imminent. we have devised a detailed testing plan that, when completed, will examine every identified aspect of this problem. we will conduct tens of thousands of chemical tests alone, supplemented by a similar number of non-destructive tests and many thousands advanced computer simulation runs. in addition there will be a significant amount of data generated from our tests that then must be analyzed. this issue is too important for any stone to be left unturned. i do want to stress that we intend to conduct our investigation in an independent manner. we will work with takata. we will work with nhtsa. we will work with all the affected parties, but we will conduct this investigation in an

independent manner. we very much appreciate any input and suggestion from all the parties, but we will do our own analysis of others' data and testing procedures. when we finish our investigation we do intend to make our findings public. >> chair thanks the gentleman. chair recognizes the gentleman for five minutes. >> chairman, members of the subcommittee, thanks for this opportunity. on behalf of the 12 leading global oems, i appreciate this opportunity to testify. i'd like to make four summary points. first, the hearing today timely and welcomed and we are fully committed to doing our part to successfully complete this recall while continuing to build on the very significant safety advances of recent years. the magnitude of the takata airbag recall is unprecedented and global. there are no easy answers or quick fixes. that's why we support administer

other rosekind's decision to use nhtsa authority to organize and prioritize effective manufacturers. remedy programs. we all want a clear, unified approach. we share this committee's frustration. it is very difficult for us to be able to tell our customers, your constituents, how long this will be resolved. it is highly complex and there are legal impediments. the key challenge in most recalls is more basic and that is getting consumers to take advantage of the free fix especially in older vehicles. the average consumer participation rate for light vehicle recalls after about a year-and-a-half a 83% for newer vehicles but falls to 44% for vehicles five to ten years old, and falls further to 15% when vehicles are older than ten years. because of these concerns, our members have cast the alliance to conduct the most intensive public opinion research ever on

recalls to learn what motivates some consumers to respond and why others don't. what motivates consumers to go into the dealership and get it done, what messages work and what messengers are most effective. work is under way now and we will share the results with nhtsa and you to help forge a multi-pronged effort to strengthen consumer participation. third, recall policy is vitally important and we are committed to strengthening the process for resolving defects. that said, it is just one piece of the safety equation and as the share of fatalities on the road are relatively fractional one, most fatalities, 90%-plus, result from human error, principally impaired driving and failure to use seatbelts. while we've seen profound gains in safety over the last decades, technology offers the promise of even greater advances as we build on crash worthiness and introduce the idea of crash avoidance functionality.

all of the new jargon we hear and ultimately self-driving vehicles are part of a continuum that thankfully will save thousands of lives by helping to compensate for driver error. this isn't speculation. this is our emerging reality. fourth and finally, let me state the obvious. oems are passionately committed to improving safety and are very proud of the results we have achieved, both because it is the right thing to do and because it is good business. safety innovation is critical to the competitive landscape. auto companies are investing $100 billion every year in research and development to comply and compete in the globally dynamic marketplace. that investment is paying off and our polling shows that your consumers, your customers, your constituents do see the progress. relative to ten years ago your constituents say cars are safer by 86%. they get better fuel economy by

89%. progress is being recognized and that's terrific. thanks for this opportunity to share our thinking. we stand ready to work with you and your staffs to make our roads as safe as possible. >> chair thanks the gentleman. >> chairman burgess, ranking member, members of the committee, i really appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today. global automakers represents international automotive manufacturers that designed, build and sell cars and light trucks in the united states. our members sold 43% of new vehicles purchased in the u.s. last year, and produced 40% of all vehicles built here. individually and jointly, our member companies are committed to working toward a future in which there are zero highway fatalities. the safety of americans traveling on our roadways remains a priority. mr. chairman, this hearing presents an opportunity to further this important

discussion on improving auto safety. the takata recall is an unprecedented situation. the number of manufacturers and the number and age of affected vehicles involved, along with the sophistication and complexity of the technology makes this unique. as such, affected automakers are taking extraordinary measures to locate and communicate recall information to vehicle owners so that they know to take their vehicles in for repair. our members have gone far beyond what the law requires. they are distributing multiple rounds of recall notices. they are sending express mail to ensure that the notifications are not discarded. they are using multiple platforms such as advertising, social media and electronic communications. they are working closely with their dealer networks to ensure that dealers have the capacity to service vehicles with open recalls. additionally, they created the itc to conduct independent testing of recalled parts as led by david kelly. of course, recall campaigns are only one component of creating a safer driving environment.

the takata recall highlights the complex nature of the industry and the challenges we face today. all stakeholders must work together in the effort to improve vehicle and highway safety. critical areas of focus include proper oversight of existing safety systems, the development and introduction of new technologies and driver and passenger behavior. this committee through its authorship of the tread act has given nhtsa the ability to require reporting and tracking of safety related data that better allows us to identify problems in an existing fleet of vehicles and to address and solve them. in part the number of recalls that have occurred in recent years is evidence that the requirements of the tread act, nhtsa's ongoing vigilance and the commitment of the manufacturers are advancing the goal of improved vehicle safety. automakers are now deploying advanced technologies which will accelerate the move from crash survival to crash avoidance, including forward collision warning and braking, and soon vehicle to vehicle and vehicle to infrastructure

communications. according to the d.o.t., vehicle to vehicle communications, when fully deployed, could address 80% of crashes involving unimpaired drivers. a holistic approach to vehicle and highway safety must include human behavior which plays a role in a voluntary recall system. for newer vehicles the recall completion rate is upwards of 80%. the completion rate falls dramatically as vehicles age. this is a key challenge in resolving the takata recall and raises an important question -- are there limits to the success of a voluntary system. global automakers and our members are exploring ways the industry can achieve better outcomes, we are working with nhtsa officials and are happy to talk with you about new methods for getting useful, effective and actionable recall information to our customers, such as including recall notifications in annual vehicle registration processes. mr. chairman, it is important to keep in mind that highway safety is improving.

this past december, nhtsa announced that traffic fatalities decreased by 3.1% over the previous year, and by nearly 25% since 2004. however, there is clearly more work to be done. regarding the takata recall, the most important thing we can do right now is to make sure people are aware of the status of their vehicle. every vehicle owner should go to safercar.gov and enter their vin number to determine if action needs to be taken. personally i did this myself for my vehicle and my children's vehicle. and it gave me the peace of mind to knowing where we're at. global automakers and our members will continue to work toward our mutual goal of 100% recall completion and zero traffic fatalities. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. >> chair thanks the entire panel

for their testimony today. we'll move into the question portion of the hearing. i'll recognize myself for five minutes for questions. i've got a couple of questions that relate to the propellant in the inflator. mr. kennedy, primarily going to ask you, but mr. kelly, if you have information, because of your independent testing role, please feel free to add. is -- mr. kennedy, is takata the only airbag manufacturer that uses sodium nitrate into its airbags? >> it is ammonia nitrate, sir. i believe we are the only one that uses it as a main propellants. there are other manufacturers that use it as a supplemental propellant. >> is there any other airbag other than those manufactured by takata that has been -- experienced this energetic disruption, i think you called

it, mr. kelly? >> i can't really speak to recalls for the other suppliers, chairman burgess. i really don't know the answer to that. >> it's just that we've had -- this is the second hearing that i've been involved in on this issue, and ammonium nitrate keeps coming up. it is a pretty powerful compound and it just begs the question, is there a linear relationship between the ammonium nitrate used as an inflator and these accidents that are happening. >> well, the studies that we've done and the research that we have from some of the leading experts in the world seem to indicate that ammonium nitrate is certainly a factor in the inflator ruptures. there are many, many other factors. i think you heard dr. rosekind talk about some of them. you heard mr. kelly talk about some of them. it takes a long time, as dr. rosekind said, 7 to 12 years. it takes high absolute humidity, it takes high heat.

what's difficult about the situation is, you can put two inflators in that situation, one of them is fine and one of them is not. so that is really what the struggle has been with getting to the root cause. but ammonium nitrate appears to be one of the factors that contributes. >> it's high humidity is an issue. my understanding is some of these are manufactured with a desiccant. to absorb humidity. >> yes. >> and then it would go with the time frame that presumably that will get completely used up over some period of time. is that correct? >> i don't know that it would get completely used up, sir. it depends on the amount of moisture that is in a particular inflater and the amount of desiccant. we have not seen this issue with

those inflaters in the field. so we know that's a factor that contributes to the life of the inflator. >> does takata involved in the make or model of ammonium nitrate without a desiccant? >> yes, all are ammonium nitrate without desiccant. >> are you still manufacturing ammonium nitrate without a desiccant? >> we are working to transition out of them as quickly as possible. >> i'm sorry. you go out and buy a brand-new car off the show room floor and it could have one of these instruments in it? >> it could have an ammonium nitrate based inflater that does not have a desiccant, yes. >> is there any reason to warn the consumer they are buying something that may be problematic?

>> the recalls that are in process at this point are for certain time frames, certain vehicles, certain technologies. those would not be involved in a brand-new vehicle at this point. we're going beyond the consent order and testing outside the boundaries of what's involved in the recall to really understand what the total scope is. >> i'm sorry you're not providing me much reassurance with that answer. >> let me ask you this you said by september you'll be up to a million units. >> then we'll continue to go up after that as well. >> but under just simple math, it's 34 million vehicles, i mean, it's almost three years as a time frame. >> well, the exact numbers are in the dirs, but the additional due to these dirs, is about 16, 17. i don't mean to minimize it, it is obviously a huge number

whichever way you look at it. but previously there had been 18 million of that 34 that have already been under recall. we've supplied over 4 million kits already since january of last year. now we're going to a million a month. >> let me ask you this. i don't mean to interrupt but my time is up. are any of the replacement modules that you're re-installing in vehicles that are brought in to have their airbag system changed out, are any of those ammonium nitrate propellants without a desiccant. >> some of them are. we have about 50% with outside inflaters that are nonammonium nitrate. on the driver's side, as i mentioned in my opening remarks we're completely transitioning out of the bat wings and we'll be using a desiccant inflater or

an outside inflater. >> i want to follow up on the chairman's question. you've talked about what are the possible reasons, including ammonium nitrate perhaps being part of the cause. you're saying, if i understand you correctly, that you are providing replacement bags that have ammonium nitrate without a desiccant. >> yes, ma'am. >> i don't understand that. what is under recall right now. >> certain models, certain designs on certain vehicles.

>> but why? why if ammonium nitrate may be a problem, would you and why would o i buy -- why would you buy a car that has a potentially dangerous airbag? i'm not understanding. >> we are working to move away from those as quickly as we can. in a vehicle it is not as easy as just changing the color of the car or changing a bolt. >> no. i'm not talking about replacements now. >> yes. yes. >> so the replacement could be as dangerous as the current. why would you even replace them? >> as i said, without really understanding the root cause and continuing to test outsides the bounds, we're trying to determine what are exactly the factors that lead to this and should we do something different than what we're doing now. as you heard dr. rosekind say, it takes 7 1/2 to 12 years. putting in a brand-new part is a huge improvement in safety. as we continue to test, if it shows that we need to take

additional actions, we will take additional actions. >> does the recall affect cars that are over ten years old? >> yes. some of them i think -- well, the original recalls did. these new ones announced, i'd have to look and see because of that overlap. but some of them go back to as early as i think 2000, 2001. were the first ones involved. >> my understanding is that you are doing that with older cars but you're not required to do so. so i wanted to ask you if takata has taken a position on the vehicle safety improvement act, hr-1181. >> no, we have not publicly. i'm aware of the bill. i'm not aware of all of the particulars in the bill. but we certainly support any effort that would help improve the return rate on recalls.

>> so let me give you some of the items in the bill and see if you would support that. hr-1181 would increase the quantity and quality of information shared by auto manufacturers with nhtsa, the public and congress. specifically, requires manufacturers to include in their quarterly submissions to nhtsa additional information on fatal incidents possibly caused by a defect, and assess why the incident may have occurred and removes the limitation on the number of model years that should be reported. is this something that sounds supportable to you? >> well, it's a little disingenuous for me because it is not a requirement for our company to comment on. but it would seem like that would be a good idea in order to increase the visibility on some of these issues that have been going on in the field. >> do you think it would be a good idea to not limit to ten years the number of mandatory --

of recalls asking that cars older than ten years be part of the required recall? >> quite frankly, i didn't know there was a limit of ten years. as i said, some of these vehicles are 15 years old. >> would you think that it is a good idea for nhtsa to have new imminent hazard authority to expedite recalls related to dangerous defects? >> that's again a difficult one for a supplier i think to answer. but i think anything that improves the safety on the road is certainly a step in the right direction. >> do you think there's any reason to support regional recalls as opposed to national recalls? >> well, obviously our started is off as a regional recall. and the reason that it was -- couple reasons it was doing that, number one was because that's what the science and data showed were the issues were.

there are going to be some cases where i think that is probably correct. and it also -- >> people do drive their cars to other places. >> yes, that is true. but the other thing i was going to say, it also helps with getting part into the priority areas as quickly as possible. that's part of the four dirs that we came to agreement with nhtsa on in the last couple of weeks. >> mr. kennedy, can i work with you, as well obviously primarily with the members, but talk to you about the legislation? >> absolutely. >> thank you. i yield back. >> you're welcome. >> chair thanks the gentle lady. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. kennedy, i'm going to stay right with you. do you drive a car that has a takata airbag. >> yes, i do. >> you do. >> yes, i do. >> what about your family? >> yes, every one of them. >> are you concerned -- >> no, i'm not. >> -- about the safety of those. okay, i was listening to your statement and i think i must have missed something here because you talked about manufacturing -- stopping the

manufacture of the bat wing air baghdad but you never mentioned the ammonium nitrate. you kind of left the propellant out of the mix. >> correct. >> and then addressed it with mr. burgess a little bit. i want to ask you if you agree with this statement. this is from an explosives expert at missouri university of science and technology. he said the following about ammonium nitrate. "it shouldn't be used in airbags but it is cheap. unbelievably cheap." do you agree with that statement? >> that it's unbelievably cheap or that it shouldn't be used or are you -- >> both. >> i wouldn't say that it's unbelievably cheap. i would say it is competitive with some of the other propellant formulations that are out there. we use a different formation in

some other inflators. it is a blanket statement that says it should not be used. no, i don't agree with that because obviously we use it. we've had some issues with some of our ammonium nitrate inflators but many of them have performed very well. >> are you an explosives expert? >> no, ma'am, i am not. >> you are not. >> i am an engineer. but i'm not a chemist, i'm not an explosives expert. >> all right. then let's go to what you were saying, you are still using this. so isn't it true that ammonium nitrate is a dangerous substance to be used in airbag inflators? >> no, i don't believe it is a dangerous substance to be used in airbag inflators. >> okay. you do not believe -- >> we use phase stabilized ammonium nitrate. most of the issues that you hear about ammonium nitrate are it losing its phase stabilization. >> all right. then isn't it true that ammonium nitrate is cheaper than other

compounds such as tetrasol. >> probably, maybe tetrasol. but at the time that we started to use ammonium nitrate, the competing material out there was guanidine nitrate. those two are very similar in cost. there is not a huge difference between those. >> you're an engineer. isn't it true that your own engineers at takata warned you about using ammonium nitrate. >> i am from some of the newspaper articles i've read. i assume you are referring to mr. lilly's comments. is that correct? >> mr. britain and mr. lilly. >> what i can tell you is this. every development program, any product any supplier ever makes there is always a spirited debate about what are the right components, what's the right design, and there are tradeoffs on all of those things.

the previous materials that we used for propellant was sodium azide. that was extremely toxic. it also had the unwanted effect that when it was deployed it did not burn very cleanly and there was a lot of effluents that were put into the vehicle and people with respiratory issues were bothered by those. every propellant, every design, there is always an argument. you can always find people on one side or the other. >> i want to move on. given that you're recalling cars that may have already been repaired, have there been any field incidents reported in inflators that were installed as parts, any of the remedy situations. have you had any occurrences with those? >> not that i'm aware of, ma'am. >> so all of the replacement parts have performed 100%

satisfactorily in the cars in which they have been installed. >> what i said was i am not aware of any of the replacement parts -- >> would you double check that and get back to us and let us know. >> yes, ma'am. >> what does takata believe we know from testing today that we didn't know a year ago? >> we know a lot. not just from our testing. i know i heard some of the gentlemen refer to another report which was released. we brought the doctor from that institute into our facility in february. we brought a team in nhtsa in. >> what kind of changes are you making with that information then if you're still using the propellant that's a problem. >> as i said, we do have later designs that use desiccant. we also have production on one using guanidine nitrate. we started production a year or two ago and we're continuing to ramp those up.

i think overall you'll see production of ammonium nitrate go down rapidly. >> i yield back. >> gentle lady yields back. the chair recognize the gentleman from massachusetts. >> thank you to the witnesses for being here. i apologize, i had to step out. glad to come back. mr. kennedy, you indicated that you expect that the use of ammonium nitrate would decrease in the future. why is that? >> well, it's certainly got a bad reputation through all of this. as i said, it is one of the contributing factors. that everyone believes is involved in this issue. >> can you, sir, signify or guarantee that as long as ammonium nitrate is used in those products, those products are safe? >> well, we believe properly manufactured and designed ammonium nitrate can be done properly.

>> so the -- you indicate in your written testimony a little while ago that in certain circumstances these conditions can result in an alteration in that in certain circumstances these conditions can result in an alteration in the propellant wavers and inflators that could potentially lead to overaggressive combustion. >> correct. >> so your statement though is that if it is properly manufactured, and under the right circumstances, those conditions would not exist. >> well, we have seen those in very rare cases. and that goes back to the root cause discussion we were having a little bit earlier. we do not have the definitive root cause. we know a lot. we know a lot more than we did in december based on all the testing that we've done and all the testing that our outside experts have done. >> so the testing that you've done as indicated, if i understand you correctly -- please correct me if i don't -- is that the ammonium nitrate or substances used in the

production of these wafers and then in certain conditions of heat and humidity could lead to malfunction and crash? >> could lead to. >> could lead to. but your plans are to phase out the use of the ammonium nitrate in your products. >> well, we have been phasing that down and phasing later propellants. but a lot of them, even some of the ammonium nitrate ones, were with desiccant. now we're moving to what's called a guanidine nitrate. >> you said that's a similar cost? >> yes. >> so why not adopt that earlier? >> we made investments in order to process ammonium nitrate. we were having good success with ammonium nitrate. it was competitive. as i said, it had a number of these other advantages to it that our customers enjoyed. so it was not something that until some of these recent issues really thought and gave us a reason to rethink it. >> some fairly significant disadvantages of late though.

yes? >> i'm sorry? >> some fairly significant disadvantages of late though, i would imagine. >> yes, sir. >> so, and then, sir, i think you tried to touch on this but forgive me if i'm still a little bit confused. in an article in the "new york times" yesterday indicated that the headline i believe says takata says it will no longer make side inflator linked to airbag defect. >> i'm sorry. what did it say? >> takata says it will no longer make side inflator linked to airbag defect. basically says you will not be using ammonium nitrate. there's another piece in another newspaper i saw today saying that ammonium nitrate still would be manufactured. and a piece in reuters that i think said that it wasn't going to be, then the piece was withdrawn. so can you try to clarify for me, is ammonium nitrate still being used in the products and should people -- what should people do? can they have confidence in the airbag product that's going into their cars? >> i'm glad you asked that question. there was a lot of confusion

yesterday once our written testimony was released. >> both cited your written testimony, one said that you are, one said that you're not. >> yes. >> i appreciate the clarification. >> it's a long story. we've had people working on that since it came out. as i think i mentioned earlier, we are continuing to use ammonium nitrate in our propellants. phase stabilize ammonium nitrate. both with and without desiccant. there's not many without desiccant that are still out there. >> okay. >> we did say we were going to quit making these bat winged shaped inflators. we've seen it's more prevalent in the bat wing propellant wafers. >> okay. given that i only have 30 seconds left, i'll stop going forward. mr. chairman, i'll yield back. thank you. thank you to the witness. >> you're welcome. >> gentleman yields back. chair thanks the gentleman. recognizes the gentleman from

new jersey, mr. lance, five minutes for your questions, please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good afternoon to you all, gentlemen. i was at the hearing in december. i was the vice chair then, as i am now. mr. terry was in the chair in december. i quote from the transcript, mr. kennedy, directly from the transcript of the december hearing on this matter. i had asked your colleague about this whole matter. i had stated, quote, takata's current view based upon reliable information does not support a nationwide determination of the safety defect in all vehicles equipped with the subject driver side inflators. this is not the view of the agency at the federal government. obviously nhtsa. that protects the american people. and so you are dramatically and diametrically in opposition to the view of nhtsa. is that accurate? and then your colleague discussed this with his

colleagues. there was a translation problem but he then answered the question, and he said, quote, this is direct quote from the transcript, yes, correct, that is our statement. then i went on to say, in conclusion, and we will be asking this of nhtsa later in the hearing, on november 26 nhtsa demanded a national recall. of course that was not the view of takata at that time. what has changed, mr. kennedy, between then and now? >> much has changed. much. >> there has been one additional death. >> there was the one additional death -- >> that certainly has changed. >> in texas. that was as i think was also mentioned was a vehicle that had been recalled four years ago, unfortunately. >> but not to the owner. this was a subsequent owner. that's an important factor for the american people to know. >> it is a very important factor. a very important factor. i agree with you. but back to your original question of what has changed, at

that time we had i think 8,000 tests done. now we've got 50,000 tests done. we've seen some patterns start to emerge in some of the testing and the data that we've accumulated. that's what's led us -- and all of the other testing and analysis that's been done by outside experts. we've hired experts, i think you've seen the fronhoffer report -- >> yes, i was the person who quoted that. moving on. the issue of ruptures was first known by takata in 2004. the first six deaths, i believe, occurred approximately in 2009. so this has been an ongoing problem of great significance. in the last six months, how much have you been fined? i believe it is $14,000 a day. how much in total have you been fined, mr. kennedy? >> i think dr. rosekind answered that. i think it was -- >> i'm asking for your answer, mr. kennedy. >> i believe it was total is up

to $1.2 million. >> and have you paid that? >> to my knowledge, no. >> and why is that? >> that's part of the discussion and negotiation with nhtsa. they have agreed to suspend it as part of the consent order, but they have reserved the right to incur further penalties as they see fit. >> now, based upon your testimony to the chairman and to the ranking member, is it possible that replacement airbags will continue to have ammonium nitrate in them? >> yes, sir, they will. some of them will. >> and you are confident that they will be safe for some period of time or an extended period of time? >> we feel that they are safe and that's why, again, as part of the consent order, we are

continuing to test outside of the scope of the recalls and we are continuing to test to make sure that the remedy parts are safe. >> should those who are having an airbag replaced ask whether or not their new airbag will contain ammonium nitrate and perhaps ask for a different replacement airbag? >> i'm not really sure how to answer that, sir. >> and are there new automobiles fresh off the assembly line that contain ammonium nitrate airbags? >> yes, there are. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> mr. bozella, you indicate that the rate of compliance with recalls drops dramatically. did i hear you right that it's 15% for older vehicles?

and could you explain exactly the years involved where it would be as low as 15%? >> yeah. i don't know that i mentioned exactly the numbers -- >> perhaps you didn't. >> but you're exactly right, congressman. the trend is that further out into the ownership of a vehicle, the recall completion rate is lower. if the question is, why is that, second and third owners, these vehicles are often owned by second and third owners. they're difficult to find. so the manufacturers are doing everything they can right now working very hard to increase those completion rates. >> thousand. thank you. in conclusion because my time has expired i'm concerned about those who have vehicles that very purchased not new. this would be people who might not be aware necessarily as someone who purchased a new automobile. we want to protect all the american people. this is a great concern and i want to work with you and others and the committee to make sure

that all americans are protected. thank you, chairman. ms. clarke for your questions. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i thank our panelists. the day before this subcommittee's hearing in december, takata sent a letter to nhtsa in which the company rejected a national recall. part of the stated reason for rejecting the national recall was takata's contention that it was not required by law to make a good faith determination of whether its product contained a safety related defect or to conduct a recall because takata is not a manufacturer of motor vehicles or of replacement equipment. mr. kennedy, this question was asked of your colleague in december. but i want to hear from you now. do you agree with that statement made by your company in december? >> it sounds like a lot of legal talk to me. i'm certainly not a lawyer.

>> it's not legal. it's very simple. it says here that it is your contention that you are not required by law to make a good faith determination of whether a product has contained a safety related defect or to conduct a recall because takata is not a manufacturer of motor vehicles or of replacement equipment. >> i really don't know the answer to that. i would have to do a little bit of research and get back to you on that. >> all right. very well. by entering into the consent order with nhtsa, it is my understanding that takata has submitted to nhtsa's jurisdiction. is that correct? >> i believe that would probably be the proper term. >> that's correct? >> we've come to an agreement with nhtsa. >> so that's correct? >> yes. >> very well. do you now agree that takata is subject to the jurisdiction of nhtsa at least as to the laws and regulations related to safety related defects?

>> again, it's an area -- you're asking me a law question that i'm not really properly qualified to answer. i could certainly look into it and get back with you. i mean, but certainly we recognize nhtsa authority, if that's really the question that you're asking. and we've worked very hard with nhtsa, especially over the past three or four months, to come to the agreement on the consent agreement, the preservation order, the dirs -- >> let me ask you this. do you now agree that takata's required to decide in good faith whether your products contain a safety related defect? >> well, we did -- we clearly did say in the dirs that a defect may arise in some of the subject parts. so i guess the answer to that question would be yes. >> mr. kennedy, is takata paying for all of the replacement airbags? >> i'm not sure what you mean by -- are we -- we're selling them. >> well, there are airbags that now need to be replaced. >> correct. >> right?

are you paying for them? >> we are working with each one of our automaker customers to discuss financial responsibility and we're -- >> what does that mean? >> that means that we're having discussions with each one of the automakers. >> so you're not paying for them. >> i wouldn't say that we're paying 100% for everything with every automaker. >> so you're negotiating what you will pay and what you want won't? >> which is a normal course of business on -- >> i'm just asking. >> yes. it is a normal course of business in the automotive industry. >> a "new york times" article from may 20th stated takata said automakers shared the blame for this massive recall because, testing spes fe cases by the auto manufacturers failed to reveal -- report. >> is that correct? >> we believe that is correct.

>> can you explain that statement a little bit more? >> yeah. what it means is whenever a supplier provides a product to an automaker, there's a specification that you're required to meet. there's a certain set of tests that you have to run, a certain quantity of tests that you have to run. and we do that. and as a general rule, we do that with every new product. we review it with the oem and they sign off on it and say, yes, we accept this, or no, we don't. these products went through that process. what the report was trying to say is that the specifications that were out there at the time don't -- did not capture the issues that we're seeing in the field today. >> you're saying the manufacturers failed to uncover the fault so -- >> what we're saying is the specifications that we tested to and provided parts to did not encompass the scope of this problem. >> and so they -- you're saying that they failed to uncover these faults. >> i'm not maybe not going to quibble about the wording but that's exactly -- that's what --

>> so you're not taking any responsibility -- >> no, ma'am, that is not what i said at all. >> okay. >> that is not what i said at all. >> okay. so you're saying they share the blame because they should have uncovered the fault during this testing of specifications. >> what i'm saying is that in the automotive industry, products are developed to meet specifications. typically if you meet the specification you have provided a part that is acceptable. >> i thank you, mr. kennedy. >> you're welcome. >> yield back, mr. chairman. >> gentle lady mr. bainwol was trying to provide and answer for you, as well. with unanimous consent, he be allowed to answer. >> i appreciate that, mr. chairman. i say that not has a lawyer or an engineer or someone who neglect it's these contracts, but the specs that are let out when a contract like this is negotiated relate to performance specifications and do not relate to the fundamental notion that the product should be safe.

you know this is about the form of the deployment and items like that in terms of which cars it is going to be appropriately fitted for. but there is an understanding that the supplier will provide a product that complies with fmbss. and part of that is making sure that the controlled explosion is a controlled explosion. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> gentle lady yields back. chair thanks the jept l lady. chair thanks mr. bainwol. mr. guthrie, recognized for five minutes for questions. >> thank you very much. mr. kennedy, i guess i'll direct this at you, as well. if you really don't know the root cause, and you really don't know if the product that failed was manufactured to specification or the tests might have met specification, i mean was it manufactured to specification and it failed anyway so therefore the specification that came from

nhtsa -- if you don't know the root cause you don't really know the answer to that. do you? >> that's part of the difficulty that we have with this issue. you've heard mr. kelly talk about it. you heard dr. rosekind talk about it. it is a very multi-faceted, very complex issue as to what's going on. and there are different types of inflators. you heard i think dr. rosekind say ten different inflator types involved in this. one of them and the parts that we've gotten back in the past few months we have seen what looks like a manufacturing defect that we think allowed moisture into the inflator. that's on one of those. the other ones we haven't been able to make that determination. so we have expended a lot of effort with a lot of experts to try to get to that. but, unfortunately, we have not yet got to a definitive root cause across everyone of these inflators. >> that leads -- you know understand i'm not an automotive -- my background is

not automotive industry. you get the product specifications, the blueprint and you meet to that and you ship to that. if they fail within the specification then that's an engineering issue. if you didn't manufacture it to the specification, that's your issue. >> correct. >> seems like you don't know exactly where that is. following on what my friend from tennessee, miss blackburn was talking about, how do you know if the replacement parts or they bring in the recall are not going to fail? i mean, when's the assurety of that? i think mr. lance tried to get to that, as well. >> that's a very good question. many of the replacement parts we're using are different designs now. everything on the driver's side will be a completely different design. as i said, about 50% of what we ship last month were with our competitors' inflators that do not use ammonium nitrate and have not demonstrated issues in the field to my knowledge. that will go up to 70% here in the next months or so. so we are looking to change to

different inflator designs or alternate designs for the replacement parts as quickly as we can. >> you're already sending replacement parts now. right? >> we are sending and we have been sending replacement parts. >> if you're going to bring in a car for a recall to replace, how do you know those aren't going to be -- >> that's the reason the consent order is written the way it is in order to require that we continue to test the remedy parts and we continue to test outside of the scope of the recalls in order to make that judgment. >> but you tested before you shipped the first product. >> we did. we did. yes. >> and they passed the test? >> yes. there could be a manufacturing defect that you did that made them fail. so we don't know. until you know the recalls, you don't know that these replacement parts -- >> we have confidence in the ones we're making. the process has changed a bit over the years. a lot of them were using alternate designs that never really experienced issues to our knowledge. but there is a percentage of them and that's exactly why the consent order is written the way

that it is and why we are continuing to do the testing and analysis that we're doing. >> okay. i think you said earlier you're shipping i think i wrote down about 700,000 replacement kits? >> we shipped 740,000 in may. >> up to 1 million -- i guess you ship daily. >> multiple times, every day. and we get multiple trucks back every day with parts back from the field. >> how are you prioritizing who gets those? is it regional? your prioritizing. >> up to this point, we have been able to keep up with demand for replacement parts. there are a couple of part numbers that are on back order right now. we expect to that have back order completed in the next two weeks. obviously it is going to expand with this expansion when the letters start going out to the consumers. but that's why we're adding additional capacity both internally. we've got seven new inflator lines coming in over the next 6 to 12 months. we've got additional inflator lines going in at our competitors. we have additional kit lines

going in in our manufacturing facilities so we're continuing the ramp up. >> you also have to maintain current production at the same time. >> we also have to maintain current production. that's a very good point. >> i have a question with the -- would you all talk about the replacement part if it's in your -- if you'd like to comment on the replacement kit process that's going on. anything you guys would like to comment or? is it within your purview? >> thank you, congressman. we will be looking at the replacement parts and efficacy of the replacement parts as part of our investigation. >> i'd simply note that the complexity of this one is enormous. it is not just the 30 million, 34 million units in the u.s. there are global issues, as well. and so, production, allocation, prioritization are all hugely significant issues. that's why we think in this instance nhtsa was appropriate to assert its coordination

capacity and there's no other way to solve this in a fashion that guarantees fairness and guarantees as expeditious a response as possible. so that's why we've done that. >> i would just add, congressman, that the manufacturers are doing what they need to do to take care of their customers knowing what they know now. >> thanks a lot. i appreciate it. i've worked in manufacturing. we didn't have any what we would call inverted diamond or safety issues on our product but trying to find the root cause and when you can recreate the problem is when you know the found the root cause. we're all anxious to get to that point. so thank you for being -- >> and that's been one of the most difficult parts of this whole thing. as i said, any one failure is unacceptable to us, but in the analysis the failure rate is so low, it's hard to -- as you said turn it on and turn it off. then we just want to turn it off. >> looking forward to getting to the bottom of it.

thank you, i yield back. i'm out of time. >> chair recognizes gentleman from new jersey five minutes for your questions, please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. we've been hearing conflicting reports on whether -- this is for mr. kennedy. we've been hearing conflicting reports on whether the replacement parts are different than the defective inflators. some news reports have talked about a change in the chemical composition and shape of the propel lant used in the inflaters. at the december hearing, mr. shimsu of takata talked about improvements in the manufacturing process in recreant years but said the inflaters were the same so i wanted to understand this issue a little better, mr. kennedy. is there any difference between the original and replacement inflaters? >> it depends on each one of the different inflaters you are talking about. about 50% of what we're sent is

outside inflaters and different than the origin flaters. on the driver's side, we'll be using alternate takata designs or alternate outside for everything. and the driver's side is the one that had the most issues and the most severe issues. on the passenger's sides, right now, there are a percentage of those that are outside inflaters. but there is still a percentage that are of the same design inflater that was in the original -- in the original modules but manufactured at a later time. >> all right. in takata's defect information to nhtsa regarding inflaters, they note that, and i quote, continues to produce a small number of tsti four inflaters for use as remedy parts. takata tends to cease production including use as remedy parts.

so again, when does takata intend to stop producing the inflaters? >> we have a couple of carmakers with some older vehicles that have not qualified a new inflater yet. we are working and they've been working very hard to do that with us. and with our competitors. and what the plan is in that dir is i think they call it phase four, the phase four would be to go out and get all of the remedy parts that we supplied that were of that design. the psdi 4. >> but then when that happens, then they stop producing these psdi 4 inflaters what will takata use to replace the old ones? >> it depends on the vehicle and manufacturer. some are competitors. we're buying from trw and we have a later generation takata

inflater called psdix with desiccant in it that's proven to be very robust and some of them will be using psdix. >> are we to assume the reason takata's stopping its production of the inflaters is because they're unsafe? >> the back wing propellant geometry was one of the factors that was called out in some of the testing in the analysis that we have done in some of our outside experts have done as a factor, so, in order to just eliminate that factor completely, we said we would quit making that. we don't make it for production any longer. it was only for replacement part. >> but you suspect there could be a problem? >> correct. >> now, you say you're going to replace the inflaters in four stages. you mentioned i guess that the four stage will include subject inflaters previously installed as remedy parts. right? >> yes, sir. >> will the people that have the

original psdi4 inflaters replaced with the new inflater, say for example in december 2014, will they have to have them replaced again? >> anyone that had an inflater replaced with a psdi 4 inflater would have to have that replaced again. yes, that's correct. >> so, i imagine that someone who's had their inflater replaced as part of this recall may not realize they have to have it replaced again, so how do you plan to communicate that to the consumer? >> that's another great question and that's another part of the consent order and agreement we have with nhtsa. we are going to work with nhtsa and the automakers to do a proactive safety campaign. we have been working with a professional media firm that has done these things in the past. we know that honda last year had initiated a kind of a media campaign where on your cell phone, you called up google,

there would be a banner at the bottom that said check your air bag. we've talked to honda. we know what worked, what didn't work, so we have 60 days from the consent order signing on may 19th to come back with this plan to nhtsa and work with the oems in order to help increase that visibility and get that message out to people whose cars need to come back in. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> you're welcome. >> chair recognizes gentleman from houston five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman and welcome to our witnesses. my first questions are for you, mr. kennedy. one theme has come through loud and clear at this hearing from all of y'all is the lack of we still don't know about the root cause of these defects. we have ties to humidity, heat, desiccants, bat kings all sorts of things but no root cause. and that bothers me.

the plane i flew in the united states was a p3 orion. the modified version of l 10 elektra. that plane had a bad defect. that meant the wings fell off the plane. that was a root cause of two crashes. that's hard to find because those planes were torn up when they hit the ground. they didn't know what happened, but yet, we found out what happened, found the root cause, and those planes have been flying for 60 years in our navy. so, i've heard you say you know that there's heat, humidity, desiccants. propellants. you have mentioned a tie with -- you have some propellants out there without desiccants. correct? >> correct. >> how many? >> i would have to check and get back with you but it's a significant number. >> houston texas, we are 95, 95% humidity and 95 degree, so we're ground zero for these problems. how about there? do i need to tell my people back home, guys, they're all here, 100,000 car, 50,000 cars?

any idea? >> no i do not know the number sir. >> what's the problem with finding these cars and replacing desiccant in and replacing wit a desiccant? if that's the factor, take that out of the equation. put that in there right now. >> that's exactly what we're doing with every one of those inflaters. that's what the first dir is. >> so, by the end of this year, there will be no bags out there without some sort of the propellant. is that right? >> no, no, that's not what i'm saying, sir. >> oh, that's the problem. you said that's one of the problems. i think it is safe to me. if the propellant having a problem with the heat, how about putting the december kapt with the propellants. maybe find the root cause. >> alternate inflater. that's the plan with the ones that have shown to be issues in the field.

the later inflaters that we're replacing those with will have desiccant or they'll be from one of our competitors. >> my question here from the gentlemen with the manufacturers. there will be a big cost for those recalls. who's going to pay for that? takata, the manufacturers, the dealers? who's going to pay for all this recall? mr. bainwol, any idea, sir? >> consumers do not pay. that's the critical point. my hunch is there may be some debate about who bears the cost. i think our perspective on where that should come from is pretty clear. >> mr. bozella? >> i would agree with mr. bainwol. consumer will not pay. we need to take care of the customer. manufacturers need to take care of the customer working at the dealer, suppliers and the with the regulator to do so. >> how about the -- about the cost, for example, my truck has a small recall notice.

i've got that taken care of when i replaced the oil. out there to have five minutes and an hour, how this is hurting their business? any reply of how this is hurting their business? spent more time on recalls than selling cars and fixing cars that have to be maintained? >> the dealers come out whole. they're reimbursed for the recall and it's oftentimes governed by state franchise rules, but they're made whole. >> one final question for you, mr. bainwol. remember the first panel i talked about last victim of these air bags. carlos from spring, texas. as you know, he bought a used car, 2002 accord, and the defect came out, recall notice came out in 2011. he got in a crash this year. never knew his car was defective. how can you guys help make sure we track those cars from recall to actual owner because he had no chance to have the recall. he had no idea his car was defective. >> it's an important point and

it's one we're very sensitive to. the fundamental notion with safety is that it's a shared responsibility. we have a piece of it the consumers have a piece of it and the dealers and certainly the states. so we've got to do a better job of tracing the ownership so that we can communicate and that's one of the reasons we've gone through this exercise as i mentioned in my opening statementing to conduct research to figure out what makes people go in and get the job done. we've got to find a way to turn that trigger so they go in and get the work done. >> it's a great question and i would add to that, that's as i mentioned in my testimony, we ought to consider looking at the point at which an owner registers or re-registers his or her car as a point for further notification in the case of the incident you mentioned. had that approach or procedure been in place, that owner may have been notified at the point of registering that used car that there was an open recall. we think that merits some --

it's worthy of merit. >> i yield back. >> thank the gentleman. chair recognizes gentleman from florida, mr. billrakis, five minutes. >> thank you. i appreciate it so very much and thank the panel for their testimony. mr. kennedy, can you verify that some cars that were previously called and supposedly fix will have to be recalled again for a second replacement? >> yes, sir. >> yes. do you have any initial numbers on how many consumers are affected? if not, when will you know and how will the consumers be notified? >> you mean consumers that would had to bring their cars in twice? >> correct. >> i don't have that information yet, sir. as i think dr. rosekind said, a lot of oems, automakers are still getting the quantities, so after that -- >> how do you plan to notify the consumers? >> we're still working on that plan.

as part of the consent order, we were given 60 days to develop this plan and we certainly want to do it in conjunction with the automakers. we don't want to do something that's going to be at odds with the automakers. so we have as i mentioned a media firm that's familiar with these types of activities. we have some ideas on paper we're working and we will certainly be reviewing those with nhtsa and having nhtsa's involvement as well as the automakers. >> why weren't these issues dealt with the first time they were recalled? in other words, no excuse. it's inexcusable as far as i'm concerned. but give me an answer. why aren't these issues dealt with the first time? >> it's a fair question and it's a difficult question. i think you've heard from a lot of different people today. it's an extremely complex issue. there are -- when we first started seeing some issues back in 2005, we did national recalls on a large number of parts and we thought we had identified root causes. we thought we had gotten everything from the field. we thought we were doing all the

right things, and then we started doing these sporadic issues in the field. and that's what led to the action that started last year. so, it's been very elusive to us and it's been very, very difficult to get a consistent pattern that would tell us exactly what the root cause is. >> mr. kennedy, i have a couple more questions. how can you possibly ensure consumers, my constituents, the second replacement will be effective and a third will not be necessary? >> well, on -- >> can you assure my con sit wepts that that not be the case? >> on most to have the replacement parts, they're going to be later designs or from our competitors when we're putting those in. there are still a few. that's why as part of the consent order, we are still testing the remedy parts to make sure that those are going to be sufficient for the life of the vehicle. and why we are continuing to

test outside of the ranges of the recalls that were in the dirs that were announced a couple of weeks ago, so we're trying to cover that. i can't tell you right now that everything is done, but we are continuing. we've anticipated that problem and we have an agreement with nhtsa that allows us to continue to look at that and if actions are required, we will take actions. >> since the first air bag inflater ruptured in 2004, it is true that takata tested roughly 128 airbags from 2004 and 2000. is that correct? 2004 to 2008. is that correct? >> i'm not familiar with that number, sir. i can double check. >> please get back to me on that. >> yes, i will. >> do you believe enough was done to investigate this issue and bring awareness to consumers on the potential risk and threat of defective airbags? >> on the original ones? >> yes.

on the original ones. >> we were able to identify what we thought and what our automaker customer rs thought was a solid root cause. we had manufacturing data. we had test data. we were able to recreate the problem. but clearly there was something else going on that -- >> could more have been done? >> you could probably always say more could be done, but what we did, we thought and the root cause was to sufficient to get to root cause and to take action and that's what we did. >> mr. bainwol one last question, mr. chairman. have any companies suggested removing ammonium nightrate from the inflaters? >> that's an answer i don't have the answer to. i will find out and report back. >> please get back to us. thank you very much. i yield back. >> chair thanks the gentlemen. chair recognizes gentleman from

oklahoma, mr. mullen five minutes for you questions, please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. kennedy, you have -- i have actually sat here and enjoyed watching you. you're very skillful on the way you approach the answers. i could probably take a lesson or two from that. but at the same time, we just don't seem to be getting the answers. you can tell the frustration that this panel is getting. we've got a young lady sitting over your shoulder bearing the scars of a mistake that was made and we're still not getting the answers. i mean, i'm a business owner. i understand when we fail, when we make a mistake. but now what? what the solution was is we did a recall and we replaced them with other things that were still faulty. there's no excuse for that. zero. maybe this panel is just looking to hear you say we screwed up.

but i know that's cause legal issues for y'all, but a screw-up is a screw-up. taking blame is just that. hey, we messed up. we heard this while ago. who's going to be responsible for this? i don't know. what do you mean? who made the product? whose product was it? whose name was on it? that's who should pay for it. i just wonder. i'm sitting here thinking, well, okay, maybe that's why we haven't been moving very fast because you haven't took ownership of it. at the same time, we got no telling how many vehicles are out there, more young ladies or young men are going to bear the scars again? or worse than that, someone's going to not be able to finish out their life? what is that worth to you?

how do you put a dollar amount on that? what if that was your daughter? i've got three at home. i can tell you what it's worth. do you have a daughter? >> i have a daughter and a son. >> and a son. wouldn't you be pretty passionate about it? >> absolutely. >> wouldn't you want to owner to be owning up to it saying we're going to do whatever it takes, we'll take responsible for it? >> and we believe -- >> but you know, sir, you're still making what we believe, 2004, we're 2015. how long have you been making airbags? >> since i believe 1987. >> how many more studies do you need to have? >> as i've said and i think i'm not trying to be evasive, you heard it from other people that have been involved in this. they're very smart people, too. >> evasive. >> a very multifaceted issue. that we have not --

>> multifaceted. that is a great term to use. we use political terms here all the time. we know how to talk a little bit around circles. we're looking for ownership. i understand it's complex. the products you make is very complex. i've been hit in the face with a few of them. >> me, too. >> yeah. fortunately, i survived. i understand the issue about from impact to stopping you, the safety behind it. it's going to be complex. but a problem's a problem. it's not that complex. you do what it takes. you know, you have to figure out, okay, what's a life worth, put a dollar amount on it. i don't know how you can. >> i don't know how you can either, sir, and we certainly do not. >> instead, you said that the complexity of it, we don't really know the make-up of it, but our competitors are finding out a product to replace. your competitors?

you guys, it sounds like to me you're willing to do anything but take ownership. your competitors? i can't imagine saying my competitor is going to fix my problem. >> we were doing that in order to get parts in the field faster. some of our competitors have products. >> you've known about it since 2004. >> not to the level we have here, sir. 2004 -- >> 2004, you identified there's a problem. you said you could recreate the problem. you knew there was a problem. >> and we thought we had a root cause at that time, too. >> did you replace them? >> yes. >> how did you track them down? >> pardon me? >> how did you track them down? >> we worked with the automakers who were involved. >> but we still haven't got people notified. >> and that is a problem. that is a huge problem. >> i sell cattle. and if a cow i sell ends up in california and somehow, ends up

with mad cow disease, it's not born with a birth certificate or a serial number or a bar code. but yet, we're able to track it all the way back to my farm. we can't do that with an airbag? >> well we can tell you exactly what airbag we sent, the oems, automakers can tell you what vehicle it's in. the issue for the most part has been getting that recall -- >> no, it's the cost. i believe we already found the root of the cause. it's the cost. >> no, sir, i disagree. >> if we wanted to find a problem, you cannot convince me we couldn't find a solution. except we haven't even agreed on the panel that's in front of me who's going to pay pay for it. i think that's the root of the cause. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois. mr. kinzinger for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and for the four of you, thank you for being here anne thanks for being willing to talk with us

about these very important issues. you know, december hearing, i asked our panel which included bmw, toyota and honda, if they agreed that sharing part numbers and other identifiable information with the automotive recycling industry would help increase safety. they agreed and expressed support for the efforts to improve methods to identify parts and share part numbers with recyclers. earlier this year in february, transportation secretary fox stated that he also supported auto manufacturers providing part numbers to recyclers and furthermore, manufacturers should provide this information in an easy to use format. the key here is this approach would not require the creation of new government program or bureaucracy, but it's something that the industry should tackle on it own. to mr. bozella and mr. bainwol. it appears that we have a unique instance where regulators and industry seem to agree on approach to address a problem in large part because everyone understands that sharing this information will improve safety. but my question is this. if you know the answer, when and

how do your members plan on making this information available to recyclers and are you aware of any discussions in the industry to help share this information to improve safety? mr. bozella yeah, if you can go first. >> i don't know the answer to your question. i'll certainly go back to our members that were on the panel and get back to you. >> okay. mr. bainwol? [ inaudible ] okay. so, if you guys could because i understand you may be unaware of the issue, if you could maybe get that information and follow up with my office that would be helpful as we continue to explore this issue going forward. i'll ask you this. what can your organizations do to kind of help facilitate this and make something like this happen? >> we'll have a conversation within our association, and we'll be able to get back to you after that point. >> okay. great. >> so, i simply note that this question of resolving and getting expeditious recalls done

is an important priority for everybody and we do view this as i said, shared responsibility, and we're willing to work with anybody to make sure we can get this job done as quickly as humanly possible. >> great. mr. chairman, that's all the questions i have. if you'd like my time, i can yield it to you or yield back. >> we'll accept you yielding back. >> i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman. the gentleman yields back. chair recognizes miss clarke. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'd like to request unanimous consent to submit a written statement of the american car rental association and the consumers for auto reliability and safety into the record. >> without objection. so ordered. >> thank you, sir. >> i'll recognize myself just for one follow-up. i dwelled a lot on the ammonium nitrate as a propellant and this question really is for anyone. my prior life, i was a physician, i did work some in emergency rooms and i remember

air bag deployments with sodium azide. and i remember burns and eye injuries, forearm burns, knee burns when the bag went off. but i also recall there were environmental concerns and mr. kinzinger brought up about salvage yards and there was concern about the sodium azide getting into the environment. are there other propellants that are being worked on? is there like a purely a gas propellant, carbon dioxide or nitrogen, something that wouldn't have the characteristics, the explosive characteristics of ammonium nitrate or the toxic characteristics of sodium azide? >> yes, sir. there are a wide variety of inflaters out there. some we call them cold gas inflaters. they're just a cylinders filled with gas under high pressure and you have a small igniter that hits the little burst disc and the gas comes out. there are some we call hybrids that have gas and then a little

bit of propellant that heats it up. it's usually not ammonium nitrate in most of them. then there are alternate solid fuels out there. mostly guanidine nitrate is what the industry uses and what we are transitioning to. we can provide all kinds of different information if you'd like to take a look. some are better than others. >> what's the barrier for getting something that is less explosive than ammonium nitrate and less toxic than nitrate azide. >> it really goes back to some is of the trade offs i was talking about earlier. size, weight, performance. cost. some of those gas inflaters are bigger, so it's harder to get them in a steering wheel for instance. there are those kind of trade-offs. we can provide any information you're interested in seeing. >> i would appreciate you making that available to is subcommittee. i think that would be helpful to us. >> thank you, mr. burgess. >> seeing there are no further

members, i want to thank our witnesses for their participation in today's hearing. it has been a long one. members have ten business days to submit additional questions. i ask witnesses to submit their response in ten business days upon receipt of those questions and without objection subcommittee's adjourned.

unemployment numbers for the month of may were released earlier today. with the jobless rate rising to 5.5%, up from 5.4% in april. 280,000 jobs were added with average hourly rates of up 2.3% from a year ago. house speaker john boehner released a statement on today's numbers saying in part it's always good news that more americans have found work, but with weak economic growth and too many still looking for steady jobs and better pay we can do better. in about 45 minutes, a defense department breering on the military air campaign by the u.s. and coalition nations to combat the terrorist group isis in iraq and syria. the pentagon recently confirmed that the 10-month-old bombing campaign killed an estimated 10,000 isis terrorists in over 4,000 air strikes. see that briefing live at 11:30 a.m. eastern on c-span2.

this sunday, on c-span's road to the white house a conversation with former virginia senator and likely democratic presidential candidate jim webb. he discusses growing up in a military family. and his service as a marine in vietnam. american foreign policy, politics, congress and why he wants to be president. >> this country needs leadership. i think if you look anywhere in the country and ask people what they believe is missing up here at the federal level, it's leadership that they can trust. people who have the experience that they can show that they have a record. who can work across the aisle. and get things done. and i've had a -- it's sort of a blessing in my professional life in that i've been able to spend about half of my time in public service and then half of my time doing other things, working for myself basically as a sole proprietor. and i just believe very strongly that we need to create a new

environment in washington where we have leaders who can talk across the aisle and actually solve our problems. >> jim webb this sunday at 6:35 p.m. eastern on road to the white house 2016 on c-span. finally somebody said if there's any difference in the medicines, he said, considerable. they're both good. but they're different. he said, that one is made from the bark off the tree that we pick from the top down. and that little pop is made from the bark that we take from the root up. and the only difference that i have found between the democratic leadership and the republican leadership was that one of them was skinning from the ankle up and the other from the ear down when i got to congress.

>> one of the great pop lists and that clip is a perfect example of appealing to the masses with a good yarn. but ultimately, i think like a lot of characters, he became in love with his own power and consumed by that. >> huey long, for instance was a maverick. he gave as much grief to his own party leadership as the opposition party. the senate has always needed some mavericks because they're the yeast. they keep this institution sort of bubbling but if they were all mavericks nothing would get done. we were fortunate to some degree they're in a distinct minority in the institution. >> senate historian don richie and ray smock on the history of the house and senate, its leaders, characters and scandals sunday night 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q & a.

next the u.s. commission on civil rights holds a discussion on access to higher education for minority students. this panel focused on measuring the effectiveness of high school to college programs and the importance of breaking down minority groups into subgroups. this is an hour and a half. >> it's now 9:00. are you there? we'll get started. calling this briefing back into order. this is day two of the civil rights commission briefing on the effect of college access persistence and completion rate tons socio economic moinlt of minorities. i'm marty castro chair of the u.s. commission of civil rights. today is may 29th. we call this briefing to order at 9:00 a.m. eastern time. present with me today in the headquarters of the civil rights commission is vice chair patricia timmons-goodson, and

commissioners, heirot, achtenberg kir sa gnaw and that narasaki narasaki. yesterday's panel which we held for a bulk of the day talking about these issues of per persistence and completion and the impact it may have on minorities' mobile. today's session is 17 distinctive speakers, all of whom provide us with an array of view points on the topics. we have four panels today. the first panel is federal government officials discussing per innocent programs. panel two will consist of the university system heads. we're going to share their experience and perspectives and the last two panels give us viewpoints of various scholars. before we proceed with the housekeeping of how we're going to run the panels and in due time and to the speakers we want to give our commissioner roberta achtenberg an

opportunity to share a few words. it was her concept paper and efforts that resulted in yesterday and today's briefing. so commissioner achtenberg. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate the courtesy. the premise of today's exploration and yesterday's, as well, is as follows. access to and attainment of the back law ret degree is the key to upward social mobility and economic mobility in today's national economy. attainment has significant measurable lifelong benefits for workers, for their families their communities, the national economy, and our international competitiveness. it is a social, political and economic good. and yet, there are racial disparities, gaps in enrollment,

gaps in persistence gaps in attainment of the back law ret degree on the basis of race that need to be examined and are being examined by this commission. there are various federal funding streams that are provided to post-secondary institutions for the benefit of the education of low income people and particular racial minorities. and yet, sometimes the operation of those programs end up having a different affect than perhaps was intended. in particular many of the campus-based aid programs at least seem to contribute to the racial disparities that they were designed to address

positively and end up addressing them at least in some negative ways or at least the evidence appears to be the case and that's part of what we are exploring as the united states civil rights commission. on the other hand, there are many successful programs that federal dollars also support that help address the gaps in achievement, including such programs as gear up and trio and other campus specific programs which chancellors and presidents will be testifying to the efficacy of. perhaps additional investment in those programs might be an important way to address some of the racial disparity that isies that

are obvious by virtue of examining the statistics. as a nation, we are underperforming in terms of achieving the back lorette degreebaccalaureate degree for the jobs currently available, that will be available for the workforce in the next ten years and in the ten years after that. so we're underperforming in the aggregate right now, and we're underperforming with regard to particular demographic groups, including certain racial minorities. it is possible, at least it's my contention that it might be possible through the redeployment of federal investment. even utilizing the resources currently deployed, let alone seeking the deployment of additional resources. but even if we were not to do that, but to encourage the

congress to consider redeploying existing resources, and deploying them more strategically for the benefit of low-income students in particular, and the racial groups that are lagging behind it could indeed be the case that we could begin to address the persistent racial gaps. i believe that could be possible. and it will be the job of the commission to determine whether or not those theorys hold water. this is a pressing issue of our time, and i am delighted that my colleagues on this commission have seem fit to allow the commission to address this important issue. so i thank you for the courtesy, mr. chairman. >> thank you. i also want to thank the commission staff for putting together the briefing today and

yesterday. it's not often we've we have a two-day briefing. and as i mentioned yesterday in preparing for the hearing in the course of today's testimony, what we're doing here really hits close to home for a lot of us on this panel and many of those who testified yesterday in terms of many of us being first generation college students. many of us being the first in the family to graduate from high school, such as myself. i'm the product of head start. i'm the product of affirmative action and higher education. these are not just constitutional theory or political hay for me. these are the programs that resulted in me sitting here as the first latino chairman as on the commission of civil rights. there are many points in my educational trajectory as in the trajectory of the students that have been highlighted by the testimony that i could have fallen between the cracks or been pushed between the cracks. despite that i was a honor role

student in the high school my high school guidance counselor who was not a person of color encouraged me not to apply to college, that i shouldn't go. that i should go work in the steel mills where the folks worked. and i insisted ongoing to college. she didn't help me fill out the applications. i did( m it myself. my parents didn't know what fafsa was or any of that but through leaps and faiths we managed to get here. i wonder how many of my fellow high school students listened to that counselor. i've shared the stories with others here in washington and elsewhere, groups of large latino community members and that's a common experience for many of us. and it's shared by other communities of color. the same thing happened to him

in his high school experience. these impact the future of individuals and communities in the country. so we thank you for being here and for all the efforts putting in on this issue. our panelists today as the panelists yesterday will each have seven minutes to present to us based on prior written submissions, and there's a system of warning lights here. just like a traffic light. yellow, that means getting ready to stop. you'll have two minutes when you see that. and red, of course, stop. we will then as commissioners ask you questions. there will be a chance to elaborate on things you were in mid sentence on. but we really want as much information as possible. we want to let folks know the record of this briefing will be open for the next 30 days. so any of you as panelists and anyone watching today or

listening has the tount to present your own comments so we can review those and take those into account as we prepare our report to the president and congress. so you can submit those to us here at the u.s. commission on civil rights by either mailing them to the commission office of federal civil rights evaluation 1331 pennsylvania avenue. that's 1331 pennsylvania avenue northwest suite 1150 washington 20425 or via e-mail at public comments@usccr.com. with that out of the way, i would like to introduce and then swear our panelists in. so the first panelist is professor suarez. the second panelist is dr. peggy carr from the u.s. department of education. the third panelist is james t. minor with the department of u.s. education. will you raise your right hand

and ask you swear or affirm the information you're about to provide is true and accurate to the best of your belief. is that correct? great, thank you. professor flores, please proceed. >> thank you, commissioners for the opportunity to speak on the civil rights of college access and completion for underrepresented minority students in the united states. i will draw in evidence based examples from the most rigorous studies on these topics over the last two decades, including work my colleagues and i have conducted in texas where we utilized national as well as kindergarten through 20 student level administrative data base. that's k through 20. strong data is critical to civil rights as well as the solutions we construct to improve educational equity in the u.s. for students. i argue college completion is a function of more than the secondary experience. and other factors such as financial aid opportunity and academic preparation also play a role in predicting the odds of college success. in our work we find nearly 61%

of the racial gap in college completion can be explained by pre-college characteristics. that's before a student enters college. comp rise another 35% of the gap in racial college cleegs is explained by post secondary characteristics. every stage of schooling that does not give all students an equal opportunity to prepare for college has civil rights implications. therefore, being given equal opportunity to prepare for and succeed in post secondary study is the education civil rights battle of our time. moreover, as stated by the commissioner, the consequences of not being appropriately prepared to succeed in college are costly. not only to individuals deprived of the opportunity. but to local and state economies and ultimately the nation. i'm going to focus on five key areas related to college education. and they include demographic changes in our school, continued segregation levels, academic preparation, and the factors

that predict the college completion gap and end with a role, with discussion on the role of data and understanding where the the odds of college completion are most challenged. it's not on, actually. the majority of all u.s. births and the majority of k-12 public school students are now non-white. the cost of failing to prepare this population to earn a post secondary recredential has become a matter of state and economic welfare. five states have majority-minority populations. and at least four states have majority-minority populations among children under the age of five. latinos are now the the largest

minority group in the nation's two and four-year colleges. let me be clear on what this trend does and does not represent. demographic growth means there's more latino students not that we have been more successful in enrolling the eligible latinos. the real question is whether programs and policies have been more effective or if demographic growth is masking the underpompbs of our nation's schools. our work in texas finds latino high school graduates are more likely to enter the workforce than they are to begin at a community college. this is regardless of academic preparation. next point poverty remains a character particular as associated with race among students at four-year colleges. in our analyses we find 48% of hispanic students and 31% are economically disadvantaged compared to 5% of white students at four-year institutions.

racial segregation has harmful effects on outcomes. racial segregation in elementary schools is a key factor in the achievement gap as measured by differences in test scores. ou research further suggestions negative effects on college completion itself. students have different rates of participation in high school college preparation college courses by race and ethnic background, associated with the odds of college completion. let me be clear here. academic preparation remains the most important factor if predicting the odds of college access as well as college completion. however, students of all racial groups do not receive the same preparation, particularly in math, the gateway course, or trig trigonometry. that race is 70% for white students. 61% for hispanic