day. every branch, every bureau, every division worked together this day just as they work together every day of the year. these are the guardians of your city, the men and women who are always on duty. this is the team that protect your property and you. this is your police department. ♪ >> in 1940 5, 70 years ago, i like forces liberated nazi compensation camps -- allied forces liberated nazi concentration camps. these interviews are part of the oral history collection at the united tates holocaust memorial museum in washington dc.

jerry von halle relates a tale of brief imprisonment, entail a false release when he claims tuberculosis command hiding with his family. this oral history is about 90 minutes. jerry von halle: my name was ger d sigmund von halle. my namei was born on december the second, 1942 in hamburg germany. >> did you have any brothers or sisters? >> i had one brother, and his name was hans juergen. he was one year and nine months

older than i was. >> what was your father's occupation? jerry von halle: he was an architect, specializing in building department stores in hamburg. >> to tell me a little bit about your childhood while you are in hamburg? jerry von halle: it was a very pleasant time. my father was doing rather well as an architect. we lived in an upper middle-class neighborhood in hamburg. we went to public schools there and life was pretty nice. i understand what i was a baby, we are talking about 1923, it was at the end of world war i and the inflation, and

understand from my mother, they bought a bottle of milk for one million marks. i do not remember that. we went to public school. we went to what they called a junior high school. and then hitler, well of course in 1930 and 31931 and 1932, hitler became more popular and things became more difficult for the jews although i'm still a young child and not quite aware of everything going on. in 1933, he came to power as chancellor. and then things changed very dramatically. i still remember being in junior high school as an 11-year-old

and we had to learn how to give the hitler salute. he we were marching around in the gymnasium, giving the hitler salute in the proper fashion. whenever there was a holiday every house had to display a flag, it was either the swastika flag or the german flag. we did not display either one of them, but then we were told that we had to, so my father went out and he bought the german flag black, red, and gold flag. we displayed that on the balcony. my father was very much aware that there was no future for us. so since he had a sister

married to a dutchman in amsterdam, he decided to move to amsterdam -- although we had been thinking in terms of doing to america, but america 1933 was not exactly -- be streets were not lined with gold. i think america did not need a german architect at that particular time, so we moved to amsterdam. amsterdam in those days, was an absolutely delightful place to live. i would say probably one of the most wonderful times of my life i spent in amsterdam as a young man. it was a very quiet, it easy-going lifestyle. the dutch were delightful

people. everything went very slowly. everything was very neat. everything was very clean. and so we went to school, even though when we arrived there the dutch schools were way ahead of the german schools. and so, both my brother and i were put back one class. so, we were put back one grade. holland, as i said, was delightful. uneventful to a degree. and we were not -- of course, the war clouds started gathering in the late 30's but we were

not too much worried about holland becoming involved in the war, because in the last war world war i i holland was neutral. in for whatever reason -- i can give you the reason, but for whatever reason, we felt, the dutch people felt the cause we were neutral in world war i, we probably will remain neutral in world war ii. needless to say, that did not turn out to be true. in may of 1940 the german army moved into holland and the war really was over before it even began because the dutch army had to capitulate within four or

five days. we were no match for the german army that came in with a tremendous amount of air power etc., etc. etc. being a jew, of course, that was a very very unsettling time for us. we did not know what to expect. we saw the german army marching through the streets. we saw, for the first time in my life i would see the green uniforms of the gestapo. i had never seen that before. they marched in the streets. and to be very honest, we were quite frightened by all of this. as it turned out, the first year

of the occupation was completely uneventful. the germans in that first year of occupation behaved almost unbelievably gentlemen like. they didn't bother anybody area there were no real problems. until one day, a group of young jews were arrested in amsterdam. just haphazardly. they were taken off the streets. there was no reason for it. and they were arrested. and then followed about a month or so later there was a -- from

what i was told, i don't know if that was exactly the way it happened -- there was an explosion at a german officer's club. now whether it was an explosion or somebody let the soup boil over or whatever happened, i do not know what happened. at but they decided to arrest 225 young german jews --not dutch jews german jews. and so one night i was coming home. i came home around 4:00. my brother was working, learning the metals trade in my brother came home about, i would say around -- and my brother came home around, i would say around 5:30.

we lived on the ground floor in amsterdam and our bicycles were around front so that people knew we were home, and the doorbell rang. and i never gave it a second thought and they walked to the front door, opened up the door and two men and brown leather coats -- in brown leather coats pushed their way past me, went into the living room, and came out with a list, and they asked me whether anybody by the name of hans jurgen von halle lived here. well my brother was in the back room, and truthfully i did not know what to say. before i could say anything, my brother came out of the back room and wanted to know what was going on and they turn to him

and said, what's your name? and he said, my name is hans jur gen von halle. and then they said, is there a gert karl van holle here? i said no. they said, what's your name? i said sigmund karl van halle. they said it must be the same one. they pushed us out the door, just the way we were. we did not have time to say goodbye to our parents. and we marched from our house to the gestapo headquarters in amsterdam. now when i say they marched us, we were not -- we were not handcuffed. we were just -- my brother and i

were just walking there individually and these two gestapo agents and their leather coats just followed behind about, i don't know, 20 feet behind. and all they did was tell us turn right, turn left, straight ahead and if you had passed us by on the street, you would never have known that these two young boys were under arrest. we arrived at gestapo headquarters, oh, i would say around 5:30, 6:00. and we were one of the last to arrive, and when i saw them practically all of my friends were there. there were 226 young german jews

all lined up in that gestapo headquarters, which was a former school, and we remind up down in the basement -- we were lined up down in the basement and we were shouted out and yelled at, and we had to stand at attention. and we still get attention from 6:00 until about midnight and we were not allowed to talk. we were not to move. we were allowed to go to the bathroom. and around midnight, the commandant of the gestapo headquarters stepped forward and said, is there anybody here who has a serious, and i mean serious, illness to report?

and he explained that anybody who would be fooling him, he explained what the drastic consequences of that would be. my brother was standing next to me, pushed me sort of with his elbow and said, step forward. and i was put back there and i said, what can i talk about? it's so turned out that as a child, i was not one of the strongest kids on the block. i suffered a great deal from bronchitis, which 5 million other people suffer from. and my brother said to me, tell them you have tb. i never had tb in my life, think goodness. -- thank goodness. in a was very, very reluctant to step forward because i was afraid of the consequences.

they told me what the consequences would be if you lied. but he's sort of insisted on it and since he was my older brother by a almost two years, i stepped forward and i -- he took me into a room and he says what's the matter with you? and i said to him, i suffer from tb. and that is all he wanted to know. i had to step back in line. as it turned out, i said to you there were 226 young german jews there and the order was to arrest these jews between the ages of 16 and 21. there was one kid in this group of 226 who happen to be 15, and

in typical german fashion, when the order said 16 to 21, you only take people who are 16 to 21. this kid was 15, and therefore around midnight or thereabouts he was dismissed. the kid happened to be not a friend of mine, but he knew me and he went directly from gestapo headquarters to my parents' home, told my parents what he saw. my parents could only put two and two together and surmise that probably what i did, i told them i suffered from tb. they in turn went to my family physician, a dutchman, a jewish

dutchman, by the name of dr. hertzberg aer. when my parents told him what happened, he wrote out a certificate, which the certificate i gave to a museum which states that i am suffering from tb. now, so we are here now back in the gestapo headquarters in the basement and around midnight or 1:00 in the morning, we were transported from amsterdam to a camp schoorl which was in north

holland. this was a camp surrounded and protected by the gestapo and we stayed there for approximately oh, i would say somewhere in the neighborhood of six to eight weeks. our treatment certainly was not good, but it wasn't brutal to the degree that you know, we learned later happened in concentration camps. we were subjected to all of the harassment and so on but nobody was killed there. one day, i was called into the commandant's office of the camp

and as i went into the office, i snapped at attention in front of his desk, and i looked down on his desk and i saw a letter -- i could see it even though it was upside down, i could see it was a letter from dr. hertzberge r, and the commandant says to me, what's wrong with you? and i said to them, i suffer from tb. and this man seem to be the kind of an individual that suddenly did not want to be in the presence of anybody let a contagious disease, and he said to me, get out of here, and get out of the camp immediately. so, i ran back to my barracks. i said goodbye to my brother

who was with me there, and i was released. that day. and now there were 224 boys left. these 224 boys, that same day were sent from this local concentration camp to probably one of the most infamous concentration camps of all called mel tauzin in austria. i came back from camp. i hitchhiked back. i was very, very busy going

around, seeing all of the parents of my friends who had been there and telling them a everyone was doing well under the circumstances etc., etc. we received a card from my brother from the concentration camp in mauthausen. remember, we are talking about 1941. that was the early part of the war. we received a postcard from him which was a sort of printed postcard. it just said, i, and then he filled in his name born, may 7 1921, and in concentration camp

mauthausen at such and such a date. i am prisoner number so and so and barracks numbers so and so it's that are a -- etc.. that was very unusual to receive a letter like this, but the reason we were saying it was, as i said before, it was still 1921 -- 1941. we also received two letters from him. the letters, i also gave to the holocaust museum. they -- we were not a sentimental family. somehow we were brought up -- i don't know how to put it. we were not brought up sentimentally. when we saw the letter from my

brother, which started off -- he wrote in german, because they had to pass the -- what you call them, these sensor. he wrote in german -- dear, dear parents. now that is not the way my brother would speak. he does not say "dear, dear parents." that was not his language. that was not my language. and then he goes through the letter and in the letter you can see when you read the letter, you can see the absolute desperation these boys were in. we received two letters and that was it. shortly after the last letter

arrived, i got a -- i don't remember, it was a notice from amsterdam that someone in the family had to report to the gestapo headquarters, and my parents wanted to go and they allow them to go when i went there and what happened was they showed us a list of all 224 boys. every one of them had died of "pneumonia." needless to say -- excuse me for one second -- needless to say from what i understand mauthausen was one of the most cruel concentration camps. they didn't have a gas chamber.

they didn't have to have a gas chamber. this was a stone quarry, and from what i understand, these boys were just lined up at the top of the quarry and just pushed down into the quarry which was, whatever it was, 100 feet lower and just pushed to their death. very efficient way of killing people without bullets, without gas, without anything. i came home and this is probably one of the most difficult things for me to tell my parents that their -- let's see, my brother was then 21 or 20. he was 20. that their 20-year-old son, six

foot tall, broad shouldered, never been sick in his life had died of pneumonia. my mother, who was the strong party in the family, stood up very well. my father absolutely disintegrated. he absolutely disintegrated. he could not take it. could not hack it. and my mother really sort of was, as you might say -- [speaks foreign language] that was the first chapter in the story. we then, 1941, we then continued . things after that moved quickly. we were, of course, jews were not allowed to go on the

streetcar. jews were not allowed to have radios. you had to turn it in. jews were not allowed to have silver. you had to turn it in. then came the yellow star. you had to wear the yellow star. i will tell you quite frankly wearing a a low star, even though i was certainly very proud to be a -- wearing a yellow star, even though i was certainly very proud to be a jew , doing out into the street with a star this big with the word jew, or in dutch jood, j-o-o-d printed on it was a very strange feeling. if you have never experienced it, it is like going out on the street today and saying i have -- i am a prisoner, going out in

the street with a prison uniform. it's almost the same comparison. more arrests and more arrests and more arrests, and before you knew it, these friends were taken prisoners in these friends were taken prisoners. in the meantime, in order to be able to escape from deportation i took a job learning the shoemakers trade. that -- you are becoming a shoemaker to the jewish population. and for a limited period of t ime, that exempted you from being deported. so, i became a shoemaker. and realizing, of course, this

was a limited kind of thing. this would not be anything of long-standing. and one day i said to my parents, this can't go on. too many people have been arrested. our turn, if not today, it will be tomorrow, and if not tomorrow it will be next week. we have to get out of here. so, we decided one day -- actually from one day to the next, we decided to leave our house. and i want you to know, we just left the house just the way it was. with the pictures on the walls and the food in the refrigerator and the clothes in the closet and nothing was taken. the only thing we did is we gave the key to our apartment to one of our neighbors who we knew and trusted.

and these were two ladies, which i will come back to later on in my story, and they had a key to the apartment, but we just left. i only attended college for one year, and one of the college professors, and his name was mr. in'thout. that was his name. i called him and let him know what our situation was. without blinking an eye he says come right over. so, we walked out of the apartment and we went to his apartment and it was just a

family of four, a husband and wife, a boy and a girl about my age, and there was no room for three people. it was a three bedroom apartment . one room was occupied by the parents, one room was occupied by the girl and one room was occupied by the boy. and what they did was, they put the boy and the girl together in one room and gave me the third room and their brother-in-law took my parents. now the problem is, now we are no longer officially in residence with a regular home, we no longer have access to rationing cards. rationing cards is the line to food, and these two ladies, who

were living above us, they belonged to the dutch underground. and they supplied us with ration cards. and so, we stayed, my parents at the in-laws and the brother-in-law's house, and i at his house, we stayed for a couple months, until they found a "permanent" residents for us, which was on a farm house -- residence for us, which was on a farm house, maybe a couple hundred people in the whole village. it was a small town. not known for anything except they make church bells. we went to the town, and we went to this farmhouse and it was a

great relief, because in amsterdam we had to stay in one room. in the farmhouse, at night at least, i could go into the garden and solon and walk around in the middle of the night -- in the garden and so on and walk around in the middle of the night. and everything was pretty pleasant there until one day a mr. and mrs. caan arrived also another jewish couple and mr. caan was a very nice gentleman you might call him in the american slang, you might call the milquetoast. very nice, lovely person. his wife was the exact opposite. his wife was a beautiful lady, a tremendous flirt, and before you

turned around, she took up an affair with the farmer. who had a wife, who had children , and i guess the farmer's wife was not happy about this person. and in desperation went to the authorities and told him that there were jews in this house. unbeknownst to us of course. and so, one night, we were sitting at the dinner table which was downstairs, facing the street, and as i am looking out the window, i all of a sudden see a small car, a small german army car pulling up with four

german gestapo agents jumping out of the car and running into the house. as we saw the car arriving everybody went different ways. my father went into the attic. i went -- mrs. caan went out the back door into the woods. mr. caan went into his bedroom. my mother went into our bedroom and hid in a closet. and i went into a toilet, and behind the toilet there was a ledge. i sort of crouched behind the ledge. and before i could even turn around, i can hear the gestapo agent arresting my father

because i could hear him talking to my father. and mr. caan was arrested immediately, and the father -- the farmer was arrested. so what they did, they took all of the suitcases from mr. and mrs. caan, and they put them into our bedroom and our suitcase was in the headroom and they put the suitcases in front of my mother's closet where she was hiding and every closet in the house was opened up except that one closet. why? because they themselves barricaded that one closet, and so that was the reason they didn't get in there.

they left with the prisoners -- my father, mr. caan, and the farmer. and they sealed the room. they sealed the room in which my mother was hiding. they put a wax seal on it, and they said they would be back to death hours later -- two hours later to get the goodies. as soon as they left, i got out of my closet, my little hiding place in the toilet, and i spoke to my mother over the phone, and i will tell you quite frankly in all my life i have never made a more typical decision than i did at that point -- difficult decision that i did that point. my mother came out of the closet and we are now discussing what to do next.

she could not get out of the house because the house was surrounded. if there were 200 people in the village, i think all 200 were standing around the house. there was no way to get her out of the window or anything like that. besides it was up on the second floor. so, the question was really, should you stay in the closet or should you go under the bed. those were the two alternatives in that little room. and i decided based on nothing based on gut feeling, if you want to call it, that i wanted her to go under the bed. so, she went under the bed. i went back into my little hiding place, and sure enough, a couple hours later they came back.

and they opened room and they emptied out every closet -- every suitcase, they took the suitcase, put it on top of the bed. actually only two men came back. originally the room for -- originally there were four. now they only had two. one was standing on one side of the bed, the other was standing on the other side of the bed in the empty the suitcases and i remember like it was yesterday. i had the first electric razor that was ever made. it was one of the first razors ever made by phillips. and all of a sudden i hear my razor going. and these guys had never seen an electric razor. so, that was good for me. out came the razor. then they pulled out a suit and that soup will fit my

brother-in-law, and that is good for my girlfriend. the entire thing was divided up between these two characters. while my mother was hiding. they must've spent a minimum of an hour and a half in that room, dividing up the loot. if you analyze it, if you think about it, here is a woman under the bed. if she had as much as coughed sneezed, or anything. the difference between what we sometimes forget -- the difference between being caught and not being caught is the difference between being alive or dead. that is the difference. in other words, you can always

say, well, i got caught. i stole an apple and a cop caught me and put me in jail for week and i get out again. this was not the case. here, if you get caught, that's the end of your life. it's a death sentence. so, my mother and i might say one other thing. when my father was arrested, you know, he was up in the attic. he came down, and they put him in the bedroom where my mother was in the closet. and they must have left them alone for 30 seconds or so. he took off his ring, his wedding band and threw it into the closet, and that ring i still have to this day. that was his wedding band that he gave to his wife, my mother

and that was the only thing that we saved. so, after they took all of the loot, they could not fit it all into their car. they took what they could sealed the room for the second time, and said they would come back the next morning. so, after they left, here is my mother back in that room sealed , unable to get in. i decided at that point, she had to get out, come hell or high water. she had to get out of that room. she was lucky twice. first in the closet when they did not see her, then under the bed. this woman would not last the third time. around midnight, after all the people around the village had

gone home, i put a ladder up against the house, and i went up on the ladder and she came out of the window and put her feet on my shoulder and we sort of -- whichever way we finally made it downstairs. now where do we go from here? now, the farmer had a very, very tall haystack. one of these huge haystacks with a roof over it. and we decided we are going to go up on that haystack and see where we will go from there. we did not know what we were going to do. so, we climbed up onto the haystack on the latter. which is not too uncomfortable. so, a couple of hours later -- we got word from the underground

that the gestapo had found out there were two more jews left in the house and the gestapo was on their way back to get both their my mother and i. with that message in hand we had to make a decision. where we going from here? here we are in the south of holland. we decided -- i was told also by the underground that the railroad station was surrounded by the gestapo. and so, therefore we could not go there. it was impossible. so, i knew the next railroad station was further sell. and i did not know exactly how

to get there, but i knew what general direction i had to go. so i took my mother by the hand and we walked, i would say we walk somewhere in the neighborhood of five or six hours through the woods. probably more than a. at until we finally reach the next town at the -- probably more than that. until we finally reached the next town and we boarded the train and my mother and i both have the same compartment. we did not sit together, because if one of us got arrested we did not want both of us to be arrested. i sat there with a newspaper in front of me, so my face would not show up. my mother was sitting on the other side of the railroad and we took off and the next railroad stopped at west holland. i looked out the window, ensure enough, there they were waiting for us -- and sure enough, there

they work, waiting for us. we went back to amsterdam. when i got back to amsterdam, i got on the phone and i called my teacher, the only person i knew -- not the only person i knew but the only person i knew who might be able to help us. and the teacher, i called him on the phone and i said, here we are. this is what happened. my father was arrested. my mother and i are here. and again, without thinking for one second, he says, come right over. so, this is 1943. we are walking clear across amsterdam. and we wind up back at mr. mr. in'thout's house.

it is a city apartment. we were there. and we stayed in one room. my mother and i stayed in that room for two and a half years. never left the room. never saw fresh air. and it is a strange feeling. even a prisoner is allowed every day to exercise. we could not exercise. we were in that room. and so here we are. then the following year mrs.

in'thout died. natural causes. which was a difficult time because now there were 100 people coming to the apartment and no one was allowed to know we were in that little apartment. we stayed in that room and somehow they put chairs in front of the door so no one would walk in and see where we were hiding. interviewer: what was it like living in that one room? how did you keep yourself occupied? jerry von halle: very difficult. we did get the underground newspaper, which was called "v olk." we read that. these were very religious people . they were protestant people. and they read a great deal about the new testament and the old

testament and truthfully, i learned a great deal about the new testament and the old testament. i took up sketching. i got some paper and a pencil and i did some sketching and i saved them. it was very, very difficult, and we were always aware, every time the doorbell rang, every time i heard someone coming up the stairs -- not to our apartment but up the stairs, you could hear it. you always worried who is this? who was coming up the stairs? there was a closet, and i decided to cut a hole into the roof of the closet. i cut a hole -- what would you

call this, two feet? it was about two feet. i hot eight -- i cut a hole two square feet into the attic and got a letter uplatter up there, luk 10, there are one in the attic. so, here we were in their attic. at the end of the attic, there was a wall, a brick wall and what i did -- i took a hammer and a screwdriver and slowly i took out brick by brick i brick, i took out a small section of that wall. just a triangle, just big enough , and every time i took out the brick, i would mark the brick with a number. 1, 2 3, 4, 5, etc..

so what happened was, when i took out the brick, you got into the next attic, and there in the next attic, when i was in that attic, i took the brick and put it back, 1, 2, 3, 4 5. so it almost became a solid brick quality in. whenever there is any kind of problem, my mother and i would go up into this 2x2 hole, crawl into that attic, into the annex and put the brakes back in again , etc. etc. what else it we do? i must say, just about every day we practiced. we practiced going up there, making sure we knew how to do it

and how to do with the quickest way. we became expert. i tell you, we were such experts climbing up the ladder, i knew every brick by sight. it was very difficult. very difficult. to an years in one room without leaving that room -- two-and-a-half years and one without leaving that room b review have a tendency -- you could lose your mind. but on top of it, of course, we have all of holland -- now the invasion of holland took place -- the invasion of europe took place in 1944, d-day. that was 1944. and the american forces in the british forces in the canadian forces and so on, the liberated

every part of europe, including berlin. there was one little piece that was not liberated yet. they liberated anheim. you may recall the story of the bridge where the americans lost a tremendous number of people. the whole southern part of holland was already liberated. we were still, up to the last day, we were still under occupation. interviewer: just go back a little bit to the room. how did your mother handle being in that room for two and half years, the pressure in the pain? jerry von halle: well, my mother and i were well matched. we were easy-going people.

you might think living together in one room with -- would present -- and especially between a parent in a child, would present a lot of difficulties. i cannot recall that we had any major difficulties. it was very difficult for her but she was a very understanding individual. she did what she was told to do. she never complained. never, never complained. i have never heard my mother complain. she was a very, very disciplined individual. very disciplined. it's difficult. it's difficult. thank goodness both of us had a strong background and we were disciplined individuals.

and every morning that you wake up, you thanked god you were still alive. interviewer: let me bring you back to the [indiscernible] jerry von halle: the what? interviewer: the funeral story. jerry von halle: when the wife died? interviewer: yes. jerry von halle: well, the wife died of natural causes. and she had, you know, she had to -- the funeral people had to come in and do the casket and the whole thing and take her out and then the family, the family had a large circle of friends and family areas and all of these people would come to pay condolence calls.

and here's this small city apartment of a college professor on a fixed salary with 50 people at one time. and though this is family and these are friends, you cannot afford to tell anybody you were hiding jews, because even though they may not on purpose want to tell anybody else, but before you know it you have a problem. it was very difficult. to make sure nobody would walk into our room there. nobody did. interviewer: how did the food come to you every day? jerry von halle: well, the food was a big, big problem.

the last year of occupation was the worst we had had. the hunger was unbelievable. there is nothing to eat. period. in holland, there was nothing to eat. we ate -- we ate sugar beets after the sugar had been extracted. you would extract the sugar and you are left with pulp, and the pulp you feed to the animals, to the cows, in holland that is. so this was stuff that you give to the cows. we ate this pulp every day. it was cooked on a small, tiny little -- tiny little --

interviewer: hotplate? jerry von halle: it was not a hotplate because there was no electricity. you would put a stick of wood in, but it was a genius kind of thing. it was just a little -- you would put a piece of wood in. there was not much would either in me would just cook this pulp, the sugar beets. it tasted horrible, horrendous. it was the only thing we had. in fact, when the war was finally over, my mother had legs three times the size of her normal legs just from hunger. interviewer: [indiscernible] jerry von halle: yeah. as i mentioned to you, my father was arrested in the summer of

1942 in the farmhouse. and he was arrested, it was in the summer, so he was just wearing his usual summer clothes and he was sent to a concentration camp called hertognbosch. it was a concentration camp in holland. we have letters from him. we have about a half dozen letters. he sent them to these two young ladies and in every letter he asked for clothes.

my father was basically man slightly built etc.. and he stay there through the fall and the last letter we received from him was in november. he still had no clothes. at one point he was so sick, we got a letter from him -- the two ladies -- got a letter from him or someone else wrote in his name. he was too sick to write the letter himself, pleading for some warm clothes. as it turned out, somewhere in the month of december, he, plus

many other people, were lined up -- we found out through the underground later -- were lined up at the railroad track there in herzogenbusch and were stripped of all of their clothes and were put into cattle cars start naked and transported clear -- stark naked and transported clear across germany . where? no one knows. it's obvious to me that he never made it, because you cannot be naked in a cattle car, which is open on all sides in the middle of december and not die especially if you are in weekend condition already. -- in weakened condition

already. my brother, at least i know he died at mauthausen. so, that -- interviewer: ok, i would like to go back to the annex, if i may. jerry von halle: yes. interviewer: do you recall any other stories or events or things that occurred while you're in the annex? jerry von halle: not really. not much happened in the annex. we were there over and over and over again, but it was just the two of us, and we did not sleep in the annex. we only went there when we heard something which we felt was out of the ordinary. footsteps that did not sound like somebody familiar.

we would quickly go into the annex. we did not live there. this was our second hiding place, so to speak. and otherwise we were just in that one room, that one room, which contained -- was one of those beds that you push up -- when you do not sleep on it, you push up against the wall, so we had to do beds there and there was a little desk and two chairs and that was it. that was all there was. interviewer: any chance you could be overheard by other people in the building? jerry: no. because we were, everything was done in a whisper. you never, you stepped lightly.

you did not walk normally. everything was done in a whisper. there was no way that anybody could have heard us. we were fully aware of that. the problem with all of this hiding was you were just hoping that the next day would come. and there is one interesting story. because of the tremendous hunger you know, we talk about hungry people. i hope nobody has to go through a hunger the way we did. hunger is, it is so painful. i would wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. and jump up in bed. why? because i was streaming i saw a

potato. that was something that, that was like a nightmare. i saw a potato and i thought i could eat it. when i woke up, it was not there. just a potato. not a meal, a potato. the hunger was unbelievable. we were -- we had nothing to eat. absolutely nothing to eat. in fact, i remember -- he was on a, he was coming home with one or two potatoes. he found them somewhere on the road. let me tell you, he came home with these two potatoes. you thought he had found two diamonds in the street. they were just two plain potatoes. that whole family, we were all

excited about those two potatoes. it's -- you cannot believe what it means to be real hungry. that's really. we also have -- he had a radio receiver which was completely illegal. and we heard the bbc with earphones. and i heard messages which were -- i remember one message the came out from the bbc to the dutch underground and it said, the green cow jumps over the fence. that was one message. what it meant who it was meant for? i have no idea. the green cow jumps over the

fence. and so, we had in the attic, in our hiding place, we had a map of europe. we had little flags. and since we were able to hear the bbc, we were able to see how the german army first moved east. then finally, think goodness moved back west. and we were still, i was still under occupation when hitler committed suicide. we were still under occupation. interviewer: can you tell me about the events -- of being caught? jerry: this was about four week before the end of the war. and i did not even know it in the beginning, later on i knew it was also a member of the underground. he never told me exactly what he

did. i don't know whether he told his children what he did. i know he did not tell me. and four weeks before the end of the war, he was out on a mission. what mission? i have no idea. and all of a sudden we get word that he was caught doing whatever he was doing and was executed. and that wasf four weeks before the end of the war. and here we are, two children teenagers, the mother had died the year before of natural causes. their father had just been killed. and we had to get out of there in a big, big hurry. did not know where to go. the underground found us another teacher, i man i have never met in my life. so here we are again, the last four weeks we moved from one

place to the next place. and that's when that's when finally liberation came. i might say to you liberation came. we were so -- the feeling that you have, having lived under german occupation. being called names for five years of being you're the lowest animal on this earth. we were liberated not by the american army. we were liberated by the canadian army. attached to the canadian army was a small detachment of the palestinian -- there was a jewish brigade, that is what it

was called. the jewish brigade. well, i will say this to you. during five years of war, i don't think i have ever cried. when my brother died and then my father died. i think i never really shed a tear. but when i saw for the first time after five years of occupation, i saw jewish boys in canadian uniforms with the star of david i absolutely broke down. i absolutely broke down. i cried like a little baby. i could not believe it. i akissed them. i do not know what i did. very, very emotional for me.

basically, you can really say that since anne frank's story is so well-known -- my story -- anne frank and i were both born in germany. we both came to holland in the early 1930's, both went to school in amsterdam. i never met anne frank. we both went into hiding. we both were underground in hiding. just a few blocks of each other. we both whad an annex. we both had everything. anne frank's and my story were very similar. fortunately for me, the end of the story was different. interviewer: could you tell me a little bit about the surroundings of the last hiding place you went to for that four week period before liberation?

how you were transported there? jerry: we walked. there was no transportation. there were no streetcars running anymore. there were no cars running. some people still have bicycles if they still has the tires. wasn't difficulty have bicycles, but the problem was to have tires. and so, we just walked. we walked wherever it was. it was not that far from where we stayed. it was within the maybe 4, 5, 6 blocks. we just walks there and it was agian a -- again a young, this happen to be a young couple. no children. and small apartment. and they, again, they took us in. never met them in my life. had no relationship to them.

marvelous, marvelous people. i might say the dutch people in those years were fabulous. they were really fabulous. yes, there were the dutch like the belgians, like the french like everybody, there was a nazi party. and there were dutch people joining the s.s. and all of that. but in general, the dutch people were very, very helpful, very helpful. i m ight mentioned to you when my brother and i were arrested in 1941 the entire country of holland went on strike. there was no railroad running. there was no streetcar running. there was no factory working. the entire country went on strike under german occupation.

we were under german occupation for a handful of jews. and that really tells the story of what happened. how the dutch people behaved. interviewer: can you tell me -- can you tell me what happened after liberation? jerry: well, after liberation, we, that is a good question. what do you do? where you going? the first place we went back to our former neighbors. two ladies were supplying us with our rationing cards during the war. and they had gone, and they had the key to our apartment. and they taken not quite a bit

aside from the apartment -- bit ooff stuff from the apartment. they had taken out my bicycle. so the most important thing i got when i got to the five years of war, i had a bicycle. and let me tell you, that was valuable. that was like in america you have a car. without a car, how are you going to get around? in holland, i had a bicycle. that allowed me to do what i had to do. we finally got a room. we rented a room from a lady who was widow, and she gave us a room for nickels and dimes. my aunt, my father, i'm sorry my mother had two brothers in

america. who had left germany before the war. one was a doctor, one was a lawyer, and they both married american women. and so, when the war finally was over we wrote to them, and they sent us some dollars so that we could at least by some food and so on. the strange thing happened. we were, as i said, we left germany in 1933. we lived in holland all these years. we never became citizens. not because we did not want to but in holland, you did not it was very, very difficult to become a citizen. it is not like in america, after five years you can become a citizen. so therefore, we were farmers in holland.

after the war the reaction of the dutch people to the germans was unbelievable. the hate that had built up over the years was unbelievable. they wanted to tell them apart whenever they saw german. they really were ready to tear them apart. here we were, after the war my mother and i had just gone through five years of war. the next thing we find out, we rented this little room from this lady. next thing, there is a ring, the doorbell rings. dutch police. arresting my mother and i. why? because we were german, according to the passport or whatever. so, we were arrested. we were taken to a to a school

where they put all these people temporarily. and who are in that school? all germans. and hear my mother and i, we are put together with the same people that had haunted us, killed us. and we were in the same prison with them. thank goodness into not take very long, and we were released because they realize, you know what the situation was. let me tell you, that was -- that was a strange feeling to be in the same prison with the people who murdered your family. highly emotional. interviewer: how did you come

to the united states? jerry: we had actually, we had applied in 1938, we had applied to come to the united states. and all of those papers are also given to the holocaust museum. and if the war had started instead of in may, 1945, in june, 1945 or maybe july, we would have been in the united states before the war. but the war just broke out before we had the chance to get there. so, in 1945, after the war we had to go to the whole procedure again. applying for permission to immigrate to the united states. and we finally, with the help of

my two uncles, with the affidavits and so on, we came to the united states in the late, the last part of 1945. and i guess the rest is history. interviewer: how was it to adjust to life in the united states? how did you feel? jerry: well, uh, the difference in lifestyle, of course, was tremendous from europe to the united states. i happened to love it. i, uh, i had made up my mind,

from the minute i got off -- i came on a troop carrier. i came on a dutch troop carrier a troop carrier that brought dutch merchant marine sailors over here to bring back, since the dutch had lost all their ships to u-boats they purchase new ships in the united states and the sailors brought the ships back to holland and i was on that ship. and as i got off the boat, i came to this country, i think i had $5.00 in my pocket. i had no money. i came here, and my first resident was with the stephen s. weiss refugee center in manhattan on central park west.

rabbi stephen s. weiss had a refugee center where they put the refugees who came from europe. so i stay there for a couple days. and i might just mentioned to you as an interesting story. i get here to this country and i had no money $5.00. but i knew about one thing. when you come to this country, you buy "the new york times." "the new york times has all the ads for jobs. so i remember my very first day i went from central park to 59 th street and central park west and central park south. and there is a kiosk. it is still there today. there is a kiosk selling newspapers. and i bought "the new york times."

and i put the newspaper under my arm and went into central park and i sat down on a bench and i looked at this newspaper. i have never seen anything like this in my life. the newspaper was this thick. in holland, we have a newspaper that is two pages. here tit took me 10 minutes to find out where the personnel ads are. so finally sat down and my english was very poor. then i read the ads, and everything was abbreviated. i cannot read english, never mind abbreviated english. so, i took my newspaper under my arm and i said to myself, i am going to sit at a bench were somebody else is sitting. so i took my newspaper, went to another bench and there was a man sitting in. so i open up the newspaper in turn to him and said, could you tell may what does this mean?

he says, i not speaking was. wait a moment. what is this? i'm in the united states and the man does not speaking was. i thought everybody -- i take my newspaper under my arm again and i go to another bench. sit there. and i open up the newspaper and i turned to this man and said, can you explain to me, what does this mean? he says, i not understand. i said, i cannot believe it. i am in the united states. and they do not speak in question. to make a long story short, i finally got my first job at gimbels. this was just before the, when the christmas season started. and i went to gimbel's employment department and they said, the only said to me, what are you looking for? i said what pays the most?

the most right now is we need some wrappers. i said, whatever you need. i am here. so, they put me to work as a warapper in the toy department. and everything went very fine until one day i dropped a toy and the toy broke. and the manager came over. it was one of these expensive toys. he said, this is the end of you. they transferred me from the toy department to the rug department. they figured the guy cannot do too much harm in the rug department. this huge rugs. i was 130 pounds of those days. so i worked and worked and worked. then i learned my first lesson my first thing in america, i learned what a pink slip was. never knew that. christmas was over in the day

after christmas i had a pink slip in my envelope. so, that was my first job in the united states. but i also, i had made up my mind, as i got off the boat, the one thing i wanted more than anything else, i wanted to become an american. when i say an american, i wanted to be a real american. i did not want an accent. i did not want to sound like a refugee for the rest of my life. and the one ambition i had in life is to speak and talk and act like an american. and you know -- and that is what started my journey in america. i was a -- it was a tough

beginning. my second job was in a dental lab. and i was offered the job. my first job i was making $20.00 a week. and that is how i started. interviewer: what is the benefit of hindsight? -- experiences in the war? how is that impacted your life? jerry: well, i lost, of course i lost five years of education. i lost the most important years of my life. when the war broke in 1940, i

was 18. the war ended in 1945, i was 23. from 18 to 23 i basically did nothing but hide in a room, run away from the germans and my entire education was interrupted. when i came to this country i could not afford to go to school. i had to make a living. i had $5.00. when i walked into gimbel's, i did not take the subway, which was only in the goal. i did not have it. i walked there. whatever i did, i walked because that $5.00 was the only thing i had until i got my first paycheck. it had to last. so my, i had my education was,

you know, in the most important years in anybody's life are really the years when your -- your college years where the average person enjoys an gets what he needs for his future life. i never had that. i basically, i had a high school education. i had one year of college. and that was a technical college because my father wanted me to become an architect like he was and i did not want to become an architect, so we settled on engineering school. i went one year to school. that was it. and never was able to really get back to school. interviewer: did your mother come to the united states with you? jerry: yes. my mother came, my mother

followed me about four months later. this troop carrier that i came unrestricted for men. all -- i came on was strictly for men. all sailors. my mother came in 1946. and she came by airplane, which was fabulous in those days. and she landed here. now, my mother was a trained baby nurse from germany. and obviously, she had not worked in oodles of years because she was raising a family or choose a housewife. when she came here, she went back into nursing and she did private nursing, baby nursing. she worked. she loved it. she loved children.

she worked for the assistant secretary general of the united nations. she brought up the children of senator javits. and situations like that. she had, she, my mother's life was very tough all her life,. in 1933, she was married maybe 12 13 years. from that point on, when she left germany, she was the breadwinner. my father was not allowed. we were allowed to live in holland but he was not allowed to work in holland. so we rented out rooms and my mother, she was, she worked all her life until the end. was a tough life. interviewer: you mentioned before that you came to holland because your father had a sister.

did sh survivee the war? jerry: she did survive the war. her husband died during the war. her daughter died during the war. but she survived. and interesting story. however, she was extremely sick. she was, she had cancer. and she had to go to the hospital back and forth for treatment. but there are no ambulances there are no cars, nothing. but i had a bicycle. so i put her on the back of my basketball -- my bicycle and i drove her back and forth to the hospital on the back of my bicycle. that is where the bicycle came

in. very, very important. and then she died shortly after the war. interviewer: in the years since the end of the war you kept in touch with the children of the man u stayed with her to an half years? -- man you stayed with for two and a half years? jerry: yes. the son dick, he came to visit us in the united states. and i took him around and so on and so on. the daughter married aan at this couple priest or something. -- episcopal priest or something. they had children and so on. very very lovely people, very religious people. very. interviewer: is there anything else you would like to add?

jerry: needless to say, you ask me, you know, needless to say i just hope that what we have experienced, i just hope that 6 million jews did not die in vain. i just hope so. i hope that the world will have learned something from this experience. it's too difficult, it was too difficult a time. too many lives were lost. too many tears were shed. and i just hope that our children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren will live the kind of life that we hope all of us should have.