captioning performed by vitac i just felt that we had other things to do that could help build our sport as well and there was some concern that if i brought it to mr. blazer's attention, that i may feel some level of discomfort in a different way. >> and did you see other peers experience discomfort in other ways who maybe tried to confront mr. blazer? >> that would be hard to

categorize it that way. if and when we reached out to talk to other national associations, other federations, once again, we were one of 41 and one of 35 voting members and there really weren't anybody else -- there wasn't anybody else that had the same -- maybe the same feeling that i did on a personal level or that we did as an organize. so we operated as best we could within the framework. once again, we're in concacaf by virtue of being a member of fifa and we felt we had to find a way to participate, work our way through and fortunate enough by a close vote, 18-17, mr. gillatty was elected in april of '13 and we think that was a step

in the right direction, a step towards reform and that is the model that we felt was in the best interest of moving our sport forward in a very difficult and tricky environment sometimes. >> i have one final question and then i'll wrap up here. back on women's soccer here on a happier note, the most watched soccer match in u.s. history, as many television viewers as game seven of the 2014 world series. i was looking at the financial numbers here with the united states soccer federation and just looking at the investments in the men's national team, and the women's national team -- i have two sons and two daughters so you see where i'm heading with this. the spending on the men's facial

team was up 50%, fiscal '14 over '13 yet the spending for women's soccer went down, i think 13% of fiscal '13 versus '14. just in broad strokes, any reason why the men's soccer is up 50% and the women's down 13%. >> let me first say that thank you for your comments about our women's national team. we're quite proud of our track record with women's soccer. we are recognized as a world leader and i give you a few small facts. u.s. soccer's writing campaign is the reason that women's soccer was admitted into the olympics in 1996 and continues to this day. we are the top paid team in the world by far on the women's side. in 2003 when we hosted the women's world cup, the winnings -- there were no winnings for any team, first, second, third, fourth and the winnings this time was $2 million. we continued to push fifa in the right direction. related to your direct question

if that was 2014, i don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but it could be, and i'll be more than happy to follow up and provide in writing, it could be because of the 2014 men's world cup is a peak year and would create more activity so i don't know -- >> it is what i was sensing looking at, but it might be worth a follow up of investments because i hope we continue to invest in women's soccer as you already have. but the men's program is growing significantly and the women's is coming down and we are so proud of the what the women did and want to continue to invest. >> and as a father of three daughters we are quite proud of soccer. with two failed professional women's leagues three years ago we took it upon ourselves as a federation and we run the women's league. rather than fund 25-30 women and cut the team down to 23, we're providing a first division women's soccer league for 180

women's professional soccer players in this country and we think with the success that we had in canada ten days ago that we'll have additional ownership and investment as well. >> mr. flynn, we're about out of time. thank you for that reply. senator klobuchar. >> thank you. i wanted to follow up on some of senator danes questions and we're proud of the u.s. women's team. and are you aware that we're putting together a resolution from the senate asking for equal compensation between men and women in fifa and the soccer? >> i am not aware of that. >> well be ready for it. >> okay. >> and i just think given the u.s.'s emerging role in fifa and given what we've seen in the last few years with the corruption, i just think that while i appreciate that you say changes are being made.

i don't think enough changes are being made. and i have some additional dollars from what senator daynes was talking about. the u.s. women's team for the victory was compensated $2 million, is that right? >> that is correct. >> and the men -- the german team in 2014 was compensated $35 million. is that right? >> i think it was $32 million. >> $32 million, okay. so it is $2 million versus $32 million and the losing team in 2014 which was the u.s. men got $8 million. >> i believe it was $9 million. >> $9 million. so we have a situation where the losing team actually got more than four times the amount of money as the winning women's team. >> correct. let me point out, the winnings just as a point of reference, i think or background, the winnings payments go to the federations, so the payment to

our players are guided and governed by separate collective bargaining agreements between the men and women. that is a point as a matter of background that is important. >> but just to go back to this. they say women's sports don't get as much attention but we have a situation here where the -- there is record attendance and tv ratings, fox broke tv records in the u.s., making the world cup final the most watched soccer telecast ever in the u.s., male or female. and yet you have this disparity of $32 million versus $2 million and i just -- my argument would be that certainly the u.s. should take a lead in pushing from our quality here. in tennis they have equality. wimbledon last year decided to have equality in prizes and wimbledon is old school and soccer is supposed to be

noveau nd upscale and yet you have a disparity that i think is outrageous. >> we do agree. and we'll continue to push for greater payments for women's side in the future. >> i appreciate. can you say why it was played on artificial turf when the men's was played on grass. >> yes. in order for canada to receive the bid, senator, they went through a bid process. canada was the only nation that submitted a bid to host. as part of the bid, from our point of view, unfortunately, it was the bid included playing on artificial surfaces. it is not something that we liked. we appealed to fifa and the canadian soccer association to no avail. when our players came to us and wanted to participate in some legal activity, we fully supported that.

and at the end of the day, we posed the question to our women's team, if this is what we are faced with, do we want to move forward and play, or do we not want to play and the women unanimously decided it is not perfect, we don't like what they felt and we agreed was a lack of respect, but we were moving forward and in many respects i think everybody would say we're pretty happy we moved forward under not the best of circumstances but coming away with our third world cup, it was worth the investment. >> and the salary range, i'll end with that, the salary range of women and men. men, the minimum salary is $50,000 is that true? >> 50,000 for? >> for a male player in our collective bargaining agreement. >> and women 6,000 to $30,000. >> i'm not sure what the

reference is for that. >> this is professional soccer. >> yeah, i can't speak to major league soccer, if that is what the reference point is. it is guided and governed by a collective bargaining agreement. the women's national team players, that play in our league, is well above $6,000. and to play -- to play for their country as well as their clubs is well above $6,000. i would be more than happy to follow up and give you more details -- >> just going back to just the corruption and everything that has happened and my colleagues have done a good job and i'm sure there is more mr. jennings would like to talk about going there you through that as a former prosecutor i find it abhorrent and i'm glad the cases are being pursued and in general, and the reason i bring up the women's issue is the u.s. has had a shorter history on the international soccer stage but has significant pull

internationally, particularly with major corporate sponsorships of u.s. companies. and so what i'm advocating here is using that pull for not just reforms, so that in transparency in the international governance structure so we don't see this corruption and it gets taken care of and so that women can be treated as fair as men. if they can do it at wimbledon, they can do it in soccer. >> nampg you, senator. can i make one point? we are the strongest advocate for women's soccer in the world. and just as a point. there were 24 teams in this world's cup in 2011 there were 16. we were strong advocates to expand. on the men's side, there is 32 teams that compete. so there is a greater number of games and a bit of a commercial impact but we continue to push fifa and concacaf to expand the

opportunities for women and as a father with three daughters it is the top of mind every single day. >> you can imagine how the women feel when we hear that our women players that everyone was watching and so proud of got less than a fourth of what the losing team did last year for the men. it is just not right. >> i will -- it has been in the public a bit. but the women for playing in the world cup and competing this year will receive over $300,000. just as a point of reference. but i would be more than happy to give you additional information. >> i appreciate it. thank you. thank you to all of you and senator layhe is leading the resolution so thank you. >> senator klobuchar, thank you. let me ask mr. hershman, you heard the testimony of mr. flynn who indicated that, as i would summarize his testimony, he's involved in the domestic side of

the issues that were involved the u.s. soccer federation. and i think his testimony would be -- would reflect that he and his colleagues, no one reported to him any concerns or knowledge of any corruption, bribery, racketeering. i couldn't -- i think his testimony would suggest that he had no -- unaware of the activity that led to the indictments. that suggests to me that -- and i don't know what mr. flynn does, but he's the ceo. but what needs to change structurally that this behavior would be known by the u.s. soccer federation. what is missing? >> thank you, mr. chairman, for that question. i think you have to understand the nature of the beast. fifa is like no other organization that i've had an

opportunity to consult with on issues related to governance and compliance. i want to correct a statement that mr. bery said earlier. fifa is not an international organization. it is not an ngo. it is not a corporation. it doesn't follow any guidelines or standards. what exemplifies fifa is a small clique of very powerful individuals whose self-dealing was kept very secret, at the top level of the organization. it's no surprise to me that an individual federation like the u.s. soccer federation didn't know, didn't understand what was going on. this organization, as pointed out by the justice department, has systematic corruption. and for years now, for over ten years, in the midst of many scandals and even going back before ten years when mr.

jennings was aggressively reporting on lack of transparency and accountability, the organization answered to one man and one man alone and that man controlled this organization with an iron fist and an iron grip. and that was the president of the organization, seth blatter. when he wanted someone to know something, he would let them know. otherwise, they would be in the dark. and it is discouraging to me that president blatter sits in that same seat today. let there be no mistake, he has not resigned. he has said he will step aside when a new election is called. well he's said twice in the past, in recent history, that he would not run for office again and changed his mind. i'm very concerned that he'll do the same thing again. that six months from now he will

say the reform initiative is now complete, i've succeeded, and the federations from africa, the federations from asia, want me to continue so i've decided to stay as president. that would be the worst thing that could happen for fifa. >> therefore, mr. hershman, in your opinion, your testimony is that the best thing that could happen to clean up fifa is for the departure of mr. blatter? >> not only mr. blatter. there are dinosaurs in the executive committee that don't believe in reform. let me say this. we're going to see next week at the executive committee meeting fifa executive committee adopt new reforms. reforms that we recommended years ago to be adopted and that were put aside. it is not what is on paper. it is not going to be the compliance program. it is not going to be the change

in governance structure, it is the culture of the organization that has to change. and you can't have a change in culture unless you have people within leadership that believe in ethics and values. >> let me ask you this then, what is the motivation for that change to occur? what needs to happen through the u.s. soccer federation, others around the globe, today what we're doing here, have any consequence on these issues because what i assume, that the opponent to change is financial. there is apparently significant amounts of money that surround fifa and those involved in this -- what you describe culture. so how is it -- what steps need to be taken to overcome that culture today, tomorrow and into the future? >> we need to be -- build a coalition. number one, the sponsors have

got to take -- and not only the sponsors, but the media outlets that bid on media rights. they have got to take a stand. when an individual athlete, be it tiger woods or ray rice, does something wrong, the first thing that happens is the sponsor walks away from that relationship. fifa has been the subject of scandal after scandal, after scandal and no sponsors have taken the lead in withdrawing support for fifa based on the scandals. so the sponsorships -- the sponsors and the media outlets have got to stand up and say if you don't reform, if you don't do the right thing, we're going to walk away. the federations like the u.s. soccer federation have got to come together. those with similar cultures, similar beliefs in transparency and accountability and i believe that is the belief of the u.s. soccer federation, have got to come together from the bottom up and force change at the top.

and finally governments -- many governments provide subsistence to sports federation, not necessarily in the united states, but overseas they spend millions of dollars in taxes' money supporting the domestic and international sports organizations and they have got to intervene and let them know that the time is right for change. even here in the united states, while we don't spend taxpayer money on supporting our domestic sports organizations, the nfl, we provide them with tax exempt status. i'm sorry, with exception from anti-trust laws, which is worth a great deal of money to them. and so governments have already got to influence sports organizations to undertake transparent and accountable governance. >> let me ask you, mr. jennings, do you -- what needs to transpire?

hershman. what needs to transpire today and tomorrow that would give you hope that the corruption that you have described would be resolved internally and within fifa and perhaps you're answer based upon your testimony is fifa has no future, it has to be replaced? is that different than what mr. hershman is saying? >> very mildly from michael. yeah, fifa has got to be dissolved. they don't want reform. and we use words like reform. and they think -- it is fine if you went on for years, mr. gotti went on for years as his family got picked off but the operation went on. and i have to come back to concacaf, they're going to have a reform meeting. they've had one. that's the third one, i think.

i think when mr. blazer and mr. warner were out, thank goodness, they had reforms. they had reform meetings. they pledged transparency and brought in two men, jeffrey webb from cayman and mr. sands from traffic, from the corrupt sports marketing company and a few years later the fbi are going can you step this way please, sir. so now they're doing it again. and who is this? horace borel, the man who put his girlfriend in to vote at the fifa congress in 1998. and i've got the document if you want to see it. they are so corrupt. but the usf -- the united states federation has been cowardly, a kid from st. kitts had the guts to stand up and say jack warner is stealing tens of millions of fifa development money that should be developing the sport in the caribbean. he had the guts to say it. warner and blazer put their poison upon him. he just survived. but he had the courage to do it.

where was america? >> let me ask, mr. flynn, in your testimony, i just made notes so this won't be identical to what you said, but your testimony was that you could encounter potential political impact yet you indicated you opposed that the u.s. soccer federation opposed mr. blatter. >> i'm sorry, i didn't hear. >> you indicated that you opposed and voted for someone other than mr. blatter to chair. >> be the president. correct. >> and your testimony had something along these lines and that could have caused potential political impact and our chances to host the world cup. that suggests to me that there is an awareness that the decision about where a world cup soccer match is going to be played is -- that you would

admit -- is not necessarily based upon the merits. if you are worried about a vote for the chairman of fifa having a consequence on site selection, that suggests to me that you are aware that something is not above the board or am i -- am i overstating that? >> sorry. i think it reflects a management style. and that is what i was trying to impart. mr. blatter wields -- as others have said, a lot of influence in the organization. and in taking our position to not only vote openly and nominate prince ali and work hard for his election, we know that may come with some difficulties down the road in terms of seeking support for hosting the 2026 world cup as part of mr. blatter's management style. >> thank you. senator blumenthal. >> thanks, mr. chairman.

mr. jennings, would you agree, based on your experience, that american corporate sponsors like nike, mcdonald's, visa and coca-cola have been, in some sense, enablers? >> inadequate. they have had terrible attacks of blindness, haven't they, when the rest of the world has been categorizing and listing corruption at fifa and concacaf and documented. the sponsors said we only support the world cup and not fifa. isn't that tough and brave of them. >> maybe i should amend my question to say they certainly would be enablers now if they continue to be sponsors without

insisting on reforms, would you agree. >> i think they should withdraw unless the money. the money that blatter likes so much should be withheld until something radical happens to clean up the sport in interest of the grassroots. >> and, in fact, there is precedent, for example, in the way that nike dealt with tiger woods, following some of the revelations and public disclosure. >> that is a very limited case which got huge publicity because it dealt with a private life of a celebrity. it gets a lot of tabloid coverage. >> but whether it is private life and morality or in this instance, public corruption, it should be addressed. >> oh, yes. and they have the capacity. they have the wealth. they have the brains and experience in the head offices from beaverton to atlanta and to chicago and they haven't done anything and they should be

trying to justify -- they should be apologizing. because mr. flynn has talked a lot about the organization of american football. not particularly relevant to soccer or the issues at hand about corruption of fifa. but nevertheless, the mums and dads -- my granddaughter plays football in the park in seattle. you know the sort of people i'm talking about. the families, the lower level. not just the stars of your male and female teams. they have been betrayed by an organization that suns itself in the glamour of the brilliant women and brilliant men without doing it so say we're america. >> mr. bery, would you agree that american corporate sponsors have turned a blind eye to the alleged human rights abuses and potential deaths of migrant workers involved in human trafficking and the world cup

host nations? should they have done something? >> you just said it i can't cap that. of course the answer is yes. >> mr. bery? >> there's a startling lack of attention to the exploitation in qatar today. thousands upon thousands of foreign migrant workers in qatar are forced into a terrible, terrible system that can lead up to forced labor in some cases and it's time for the contractors, sponsors and the businesses involved as well as the host government qatar itself to start taking action and doing something about this labor rights crisis. >> and they can have an impact, can't they? simply by virtue of their power of the purse and dollars and investment. >> the sponsors of the world cup

can play a serious and constructive role in averting the labor rights crisis that's happening and the labor exploitation that's plaguing the construction for the world cup in 2022. >> mr. hershman, do you agree? >> i do agree. look, these sponsors spend tens of millions of dollars to protect their brands. they adopt governance programs and compliance standards best recognized globally. what does it say about them when they're willing to partner with organizations that have the record that fifa has? >> mr. flynn, do you agree with the views stated here? >> we're happy to have the sponsors weigh in on this issue. as a point worth making from the u.s. soccer perspective when these things come to light we

spent a lot of time with our sponsors explaining the difference between u.s. soccer and concacaf and fifa and they welcomed that opportunity of discussion with us and we're happy if they weigh in on these items and issues. >> in your view, mr. jennings, is fifa salvagable? >> no. not at all. the corruption is so deeply embedded that if you cut the head off of the snake the rest will still be wiggling about. america has to with its moral values join with other countries with similar moral values and say you stay there, we're out of here. we're not going to be contaminated by sitting at your meetings with with a bunch of organized crime experts. that's what fifa is and it was very good to see your fbi, your department of justice has assessed them like that. i'm very glad they came aboard. you don't go to john gotti and

say there's too much heroin on the streets could you cut back on it a bit? thank you, a couple of keys come off the street. well that's all right. that's not how you dealt with the mafia in boston. you went after them. >> is fifa salvageable? >> i would address that by looking at the recent reforms. they have been sweeping. i think they're real. i would like to give it hope that that footprint could be used. i'm not an organizational expert but that's one option and i can tell you the weekend of the women's world cup final there were two other confederations from around the world that were represented in vancouver that were very well aware of the sweeping reforms. we're pleased. and hopefully that footprint is at least one step in the

interim -- excuse me, in the short-term to reform fifa. >> but apart from what concacaf has done, have you seen a tangible, meaningful effort at reform in fifa? and doesn't that have to happen for it to be salvageable? >> i've seen attempts and they have come you short and we continue as one of 209 nations to build coalitions and work with like minded nations, and given our structure that's a good model to move forward. we will be doing so with the candidates all running for the presidency moving forward as well.

that will be an interesting opportunity to see what candidates will bring forward. >> will u.s. soccer withdraw from the structure that supports fifa if it fails to take meaningful reforms? >> as i said, before i think we have two choices to participate or opt-out. the opt-out is a very difficult and severe -- has severe ramifications to our model for the sport. so i would like to think that we can push for reform given the new platform and level of intensity not only from the u.s. senate but from other parts of the world that feel now is the time to make the many changes that need to be made in terms of reform for fifa. >> well as a fan as well as a public official, as a parent,

let just suggest that sometimes inaction and silence signals complicity and there's a point where u.s. soccer is complicit in the ongoing lack of reform or action, you may have no direct control over it, but i respectfully suggest that may be something you want to consider more seriously. let me ask whether you will commit to u.s. soccer conducting an independent inquiry as happened in the wake of the salt lake city scandal? >> senator, we will cooperate with any inquiry that's brought to our attention. >> again, i'm suggesting that you take action. that u.s. soccer take action to conduct the inquiry. you certainly have the resources. and, again, i respectfully suggest you have the responsibility. >> i think one of 209, whether

we initiated that, i think it would be safe to say we're going to need the assistance and help of other like-minded nations, so we're committed to certainly have those dialogues and those discussions. >> are you committed to seek such an inquiry? >> we're committed to work with other national associations to reform fifa. >> my time has expired. i have additional questions but i have to go vote. we're sort of staggering our terms here. if my chairman -- if my chairman will take over and ask sufficient questions i'll see you again. thank you. >> thank you very much for your patience. there's some other members to join us. this may turn out to be our last round. there's another committee

hearing in this room later this afternoon. let me go back to an issue that i mentioned in my opening statement and explored a moment ago with mr. bery because i don't want this issue of loss of life to get lost in the conversation about governance. i think they are related. so i'm not trying to prioritize one over another but i want to make certain that as a result of this hearing there's an awareness by americans, by the world about what you discovered in your investigation in the activities leading up to the games of the future. let me ask you, mr. bery, again, if you want to describe in more detail the findings of what's transpiring there and what your request would be for us to make certain that these practices come to a conclusion. what role can we play as the united states?

>> thank you chairman. amnesty international's report promising little delivering less is the report that goes into the massive problem of labor exploitation in qatar. the problem as we've heard starts with laws that prevent migrant workers from leaving their employers, leaving the country when they are put in situations that rise to even the risk of starvation. but it goes beyond that. as you've alluded to, chairman within qatar today there are serious health risks and lack of accountability and due diligence when it comes to the sites where workers, foreign migrant workers are doing the hard work. and putting in the sweat of all the construction the hundreds of billions of dollars of construction going on in qatar today. there have been numerous reports about deaths, the governments of india and nepal have reported that in 2014 over 400 of their nationals in qatar have died in

a whole host of ways and for a whole host of reasons. what is highly problematic is that the government of qatar has not put in the effort to do a serious investigation as to how foreign migrant workers are dying in qatar and why. this lack of investigative interest reveals potentially a lack of interest in finding reasons as well as the next steps to they earn money and send money back home to communities in poorer parts of the world where they do not have the employment opportunities that they need. >> let me ask mr. jennings an additional question. you're our witness from outside the united states.

what influence do you think that america has in regard to reforming fifa? >> i rather say change, but otherwise agreed. i suddenly learned today that america is terribly unimportant little country that's terrified of countries not agreeing with it. when the united states olympic committee realized it had a massive moral problem with the crooks at the international olympic committee, they didn't go and ask anybody else. you don't have to go and ask the rest of the world is it all right if we have an inquiry in america. please. i find this very disparaging about this view of america as being gutless because that's what success suggested. get on and do it. don't ask permission of some other countries. it's your country and you have screwed up fifa. i hear talk about reforms.

i don't believe it from conacaf. the same bunch of crooks who have been there for 20 years, you know -- but you can do it. it's not that you got nuclear weapons that matters. you got the sponsors, the media, the power of this huge country. western europe will be straight with you. can we join as well. they just need some leadership and they are not getting it. >> mr. jennings, you must think there's sufficient value in this hearing that's taking place right now here that you came from britain to the united states to testify. what do you hope comes from this hearing today? what can you expect, what would your desires be that we accomplish? >> as we said earlier and mr. blumenthal was mentioning the independent inquiry similar to the united states olympic committee is the first essential because then you look in the mirror with u.s. soccer and you

see where you dramatically went wrong. that inquiry can go back into how you were deaf and blind and dumb. how you walked away from problems with fifa. america doing that would have other countries saying we can do this as well. i do hope you set up independent, not with the permission of others but your own commission of inquiry. i think that's the first thing. the second thing this farce going on, blatter going to set a date possibly for a congress. i would tell you from my own inquiry there's no congress facilities booked for the rest of the year by fifa in zurich. he'll stay there and wait for us to get tired and go away. it worked for him in the past. only the fbi can sort him out. but you can walk away or you're cowards and weak and don't have perspective on the rest of the world. i don't think that's true of america generally.

>> mr. hershman, you were -- let me look and see the right words -- member of fifa's governance committee. what didn't occur. appears to me there was an effort at changing previously. you were involved in that effort to make a change but it didn't happen is that an accurate analysis and why not? >> well, it is an accurate analysis. look, we came in as a group of independent compliance experts, and sports experts to look at the internal checks and balances of fifa, to look at their compliance and governance procedures. we did so. we made a number of recommendations. many of which, by the way, were adopted by fifa. for example, establishing a new ethics committee. with two co-chairs independent outsiders. one to do investigations and

adjudicatory chamber of ethics committee. we established an independent chair of the audit committee of fifa. frankly, when it came to recommendations that i consider to be no brainers, because they are common standards around the world, including term limits for executive committee members and the president, including transparency of compensation, to this day no one knows what the president of fifa is paid, nor what the members of the executive committee are paid. when it came to having them create an independent outside oversight body to ensure that governance and compliance programs that we recommended were being implemented they turn that down as well. so a number of key recommendations that might have made a difference were turned down. having said that i want to emphasize that i don't believe

even if they had adopted the recommendations without a change in leadership, without a change in culture, we would have seen much difference. >> thank you. mr. flynn, the u.s. soccer federation particularly according to mr. jennings has a greater role to play. i want to make certain you have a chance to tell us anything you would like for us to know in a sense to set the record straight if there's something you feel needs to be said, and also to ask you the question, is there something that you would ask from us as we try to ally in the efforts for change, reform, improvements. >> one thing i would like to crystallize, u.s. soccer would support an inquiry as a national association and have the authority to do so under the current governance. as it relates to your question what the u.s. senate could possibly do?

we welcome any opportunity for the u.s. senate to weigh in with your counterparts in qatar or russia whoever it might be for any particular issue. we would welcome that and be ready to work with you on that as well. >> do you know if there's any ongoing conversations between u.s. government officials and other countries associated with fifa and these allegations and criminal indictments related to corruption at fifa? do you know whether our government is associating with other countries trying to facilitate change? >> senator, i am unaware of any activity. >> okay. excuse me just one moment. i'm going to recess the hearing for just a moment. mr. blumenthal is on his way back from a vote. i'm going to go cast my vote. we'll have a brief subject to

the call of the chair recess which may be of value to those of you who have been sitting there for a bit. so the subcommittee is recessed until the call of the chair. [ recess ] >> chair calls the meeting back to order. that was a very quick recess. >> this will be a brief, brief few questions. mr. flynn, would you commit to establish a better system of accountability within u.s. soccer through some kind of internal inspector general, a watchdog protection system -- >> we -- i'm sorry.

we actually through our outside counsel have hired someone to look how we govern ourselves and that process has been started and supported by our board. >> when will that process be completed? >> it's just started so i think it would be a better approach for us to get back to you with the time frames once we have a chance to discuss in more detail. >> mr. hershman, you testified sports are undermined by a lack of accountability and i agree. would you say that that kind of voluntary system is sufficient to bring some higher degree of integrity to a corrupt system or at least u.s. soccer has been involved in a corrupt system, or should sport entities be in some

way overseeing or scrutinized or regulated by a public authority? >> i don't want to see government take away total autonomy from sports organizations. i don't think that would be the right way to go. but i do think if voluntary standards and principles are not adopted and enacted, then government should set up some sort of regulatory protocol to ensure that sports organizations are keeping best practices and standards. there's a tremendous threat to sports worldwide. it hasn't completely hit the shores of our country yet. illegal gaming in sports totals about $500 billion a year. let me repeat that. $500 billion a year is bet on sports illegally.

that has led to an increase in match fixing, which has become endemic in europe, in africa, in asia, in latin america. while we haven't experienced it here, it's rearing its ugly head. six weeks ago a gambler from detroit was sentenced to six years in prison for paying college basketball players to fix matches. and so what i'm hoping this committee will do and what our government will do is get ahead of the curve to begin to see that certain standards are put in place voluntarily or otherwise in order to bring a bit -- well hopefully to bring some of the well-known purity back to sports. >> mr. hershman, you said that members of fifa's executive committee should disclose their salary, i believe?

>> that's correct. >> mr. gilotti is on fifa's executive committee. mr. flynn, do you agree he should disclose his earnings? >> i believe that we have pushed for change on that and i believe that u.s. soccer and we would support that, yes. >> actually, if i might interrupt, senator. mr. gilotti, before he was appointed to the executive committee, he served with me on the independent governance committee, and he voted in favor of our recommendation for compensation transparency. >> can we expect that will happen then, mr. flynn? >> we'll do everything we can within our power of the united states soccer federation. ultimately i believe that's going to be a fifa executive committee vote. >> when will fifa make that decision? >> i don't know the answer to that.

be more than happy to follow up and get you that. >> i would appreciate it. mr. bery, can you tell the committee what more you think can you tell the committee what more you think fifa can do very specifically and directly to stop human rights abuses including human trafficking of child labor, horrific working conditions, illegal holding of passports in effect involuntary confinement of workers of those involved in construction in host facilities, in hotels? the breadth of these violations has been somewhat inadvertently lost in these proceedings which have focused more on the

corruption. the overt criminal corruption and yet, these human rights abuses are real and unspeakable. >> yeah, you're absolutely right, senator. the bottom line is that there are two big pieces of the puzzle that fifa can help solve when it comes to addressing the major problems of labor exploitation today and potentially in future countries that will be future host countries for the fifa world cup. the first piece of the puzzle is the question of what the evaluation process is during the bidding process to be a potential host of the world cup? now, fifa has said for the 2026 world cup it will include human rights requirements in the bidding process. any such initiative must result in fifa having due diligence

systems in place so that fifa can become aware of human rights abuses. that's the first piece the evaluating of bidding to be a host country. any such evaluation in qatar would have revealed serious problems when it came to labor relations and as we spoke about earlier the risk of injury and death to some foreign migrant workers in the country. the second piece of the puzzle though for fifa is what happens when it raises an issue verbally or via text to the host government, in this case qatar the government of qatar then says, okay, we'll do x, y, z and then as amnesty international said, they fail to address the issue. there's a real question for fifa as to what happens now. the clock is ticking and it's not enough to wait five years from now to have serious reforms when its comes to labor rights

in qatar. every day that goes by is another day that hundreds of millions of dollars of infrastructure for the 2022 world cup are built and completed. and it's another day in which a foreign migrant worker is subject to -- potentially subject to forced labor. potentially puts their life at risk in a very unsafe construction facility. potentially comes home to a filthy set of housing accommodations or not getting paid and their family is at risk for getting evicted from the home. what is fifa going to do when qatar has taken claims to address the problem and the worst human rights abuses not enough has been done. >> i want to add one last -- or two last questions, an issue

being raised by my colleague, senator klobuchar. i was established and troubled to learn that men's teams that exited in the very first round of competition of the world cup were paid $8 million. i'm sorry, 400% greater than what the women world champions were awarded. mr. flynn, what can be done and what are you planning to do to address this pay disparity? >> thank you. we are a strong advocate for the women's game. during the championship weekend i met with the soccer association, my counterpart who was the operating officer for the world cup. we addressed several things. one of them being compensation. what i would call the team environment, the types of hotels, numbers of teams at

hotels. all of those kind of things should be included in the after action report. we will continue then with our fifa executive committee member to push for continued development on the women's side. and continued -- and one of the items would be increasing compensation for those competing and participating teams in the world cup and in other competitions potentially as well. >> thank you. i will have more questions for you on this issue. i will submit them in writing. i think your testimony -- all of your testimony has been very helpful and informative. in my view, this hearing is really only a beginning of an inquiry that congress has a responsibility to conduct. and that inquiry is only one step in a larger, very intensive

and critical scrutiny that has to be given to the responsibility of the united states sports organizations. we have spent a good deal of time over the last 24 or 48 hours talking amongst ourselves about issues of national security and the agreement that has been reached by the administration to stop nuclear proliferation, most specifically with iran. the power of the united states consists not only of its military force but its moral example. its exceptionalism to rise from its values and its ethics. and the fans here and around the world deserve better from these these -- from the sports organizations that have responsibility to oversee and organize the game of soccer. corruption is not a game.

it is deadly serious. it is criminal and it betrays the trust of fans u.s. soccer as i said earlier, had a responsibility to know or should have known and the fans can judge which is worse. i want to thank you again for being here today and i hope that you will continue to cooperate with our inquiry. thank you. >> mr. blumenthal, thank you very much. this is our last round of hearings and then i'll bring this to a conclusion. i may have suggested to you you may have needed a recess. so we'll give you one. we'll adjourn. let me first say before i do that, thank you all for your testimony. this is in my view something that is a very important issue. a very serious matter. mr. flynn, i particularly thank you for your testimony. and i want you and our audience our witnesses, those who are

paying attention to this hearing that we want the best for u.s. soccer. i think the point i would make is we can't tolerate the status quo and that there are serious consequences from that status quo. they're real and in some instances life threatening or perhaps life taking, and we don't want another decision to be made for the next site for the world cup that is subject to the allegations or the reality that corruption continues to occur. so from senator an individual senator i just offer to you mr. flynn, the opportunity to work in any way we can assist you as you make the effort to make sure the status quo is not continued. i thank you very much for being here as i would say to all of the witnesses here. thank you for the serious nature in which we treated this topic. with that let me say a few it

is cant words -- significant for the record. this hearing will remain open for two weeks and you're asked to submit any questions in writing. we would ask that you submit written responses to the committee just as soon as possible. with that, i will conclude this hearing. and again, thank the witnesses. this hearing is now adjourned.

here on c-span3 we are live on capitol hill for a hearing on the federal air marshal program. the director of the air marshal service and the president of the pilot's union will testify before the house homeland subcommittee on transportation security. the federal class action lawsuit by former air marshals alleges the transportation security administration has been closing field offices with a high percentage of older air marshal marshals. and it claims that the tsa wants to get rid of the older air marshals and they want to hire two air marshals. the house is in session, they're dealing with a big that -- with a bill that deals with the drought in california. the senate, a series of votes

coming up at 10:45 eastern as they work on a rewrite of the no child left behind law. and also, joe biden working to lobby lawmakers on the just agreed to iranian nuclear deal. we are hearing hearings may come next week on capitol hill. looks like it will be a few minutes until the hearing gets underway. we'll bring you some of the briefing yesterday on the new horizons, the pluto mission. this briefing is from yesterday. >> good afternoon. welcome to the johns hopkins applied physics laboratory in maryland. i'm duane brown from the office of communications. to set the stage for today's press conference please welcome to the podium the associate administrator, directorate from

with washington, d.c., dr. john grunsfeld. >> welcome everyone. it's a full auditorium here at the johns hopkins university applied physics lab. i was worried no one would show up. actually, i wasn't worried at all. anyone get any sleep last night? affirmations of a good night's sleep. i'm not going to ask the team because i know they were probably pretty excited about this morning's data pass as was i. i would like to take you on a short tour to frame the discussion and i'm not going to say a whole lot. the first image i want to bring up was taken two hours ago. i hope you recognize that object. and i think you know where we're going. mercury.

from the messenger mission venus. from magellan. if anybody doesn't recognize the next planet i'd like you to leave the auditorium. the security will escort you to area 51. the red planet mars. i had to get a hubble image in there somewhere. i realize i missed cerise. and jupiter with some of the moons in shadow. from the galileo spacecraft cassini at saturn. what a wonderful mission. this is -- someone made a wisecrack but i put it in sideways. neptune and for a grand finale,

i turn it over to alan stern the principle investigator of the pluto new horizons investigation. [ applause ] >> well, before we turn it over to alan, i have a few words to say. yesterday, america's space craft took another historic leap for human kind. today, the new horizons team is bringing what was previously a blurred point of light into focus. we'll have presentations from our panel. we'll open it up for questions with media here. on social media, and we'll go to the phone lines. a -- you can join the

conversation on social media, twitter, facebook, at #pluto fly by. if you have questions, send those in #ask nasa. of course the images and and information you will hear today will be online at nasa.gov/new horizons. alan stern needs -- >> the subcommittee is examining the federal air marshal service and the readiness to meet the evolving threat. i want to welcome mr. allison at the outside. i want to welcome you. the subcommittee is meeting today to examine the federal air

marshal service and the readiness to meet the evolving threat. before we begin, i want to express my support for mr. effinger. i had to sit down with him and i hope he can bring leadership to nsa in order to bring them into the more and effective chapter. i believe his experience in the united states coast guard will be a valuable experience in the tsa and i look forward to working with him. >> this subcommittee has aggressively examined several issues related to the policies, operations, and procedures in order to ensure that that they're keeping the traveling public safe. today we will examine the last line of defense.

that is the federal air marshal service. the federal air marshal service was significantly expanded in the wake of the terror attacks of september 11 2001. the outcome of 9/11 could have been very different if we had federal air marshals on those planes and we have to keep in mind that the threat to aviation has evolved dramatically over the last 14 years. we need to make sure that we're not protecting ourselves against yesterday's threat and ignoring the threats of tomorrow. for example, the threat of an ied or an improvised explosive device is very real. is the air marshal capable of prevents one from being detonated or should we allocate the hundreds of millions of dollars every year towards better intelligence efforts or

toward other soft targets like unsecured areas at the airports? today's meeting is to discuss whether they're securing the nation's aviation system from a terrorist attack. it is not clear to me whether the service and the strategy for resource allocation have kept pace with the new threats and that's why i look forward to hearing from mr. allison today. i remain concerned that abuse has served to hit the come me tense in the air marshals. today we plan to examine several key areas of this program to determine its effectiveness. and if there's anything that congress can do to test the safety and security of the traveling public. we all share the same goal and as such it's our duty to

constantly examine what we are doing and be more tolerance driven. at today's hearing we are honored to to have mr. rod allison to discuss what tools are necessary to improve efficiency and security and on the second panel captain tom canoll to discuss the deck program and the coordinator neigh with the federal air marshal service. i look forward to having a meaningful dialogue as we work together to counter threats in the aviation sector. i recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, ms. rice for an opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for convening this hearing. i understand that this is actually the first time since

2012 that a panel in this committee has discussed the federation aviation marshal service. it is important that we do so and i want to thank the witnesses for their participation today. prior to september 11th, the federal air marshal service had 33 full-time sky marshals and the 9/11 attacks made it clear that we needed to counter it. and it was rapid i will expanded through the aviation transportation security act of 2002. 600 marshals were trained and activated within a month and thousands more in the months that followed. the federal air marshal service as well as flight deck officers is a last line of defense. we know that the threats against our country particularly against the aviation sector are constantly evolving an they have only increased in the years

since 9/11. we must ensure we're maintaining the strength we need to keep the passengers safe. that's why we're here today. there are a number of issues of concern with the current state of the federal air marshal service. first and foremost, the twindzling ranks of the service. there's not been a new service class in four years. when you couple this with high attrition and poor retention rates it is clear that the organization is shrinking dramatically and raises serious questions about workforce morale. so is the workforce is dwindling, so is the number of field houses. currently there are 22 and two more are scheduled to close in 2016 which will bring us down to 20 field offices within the next year. i understand they're determined by the risk analyses and there are fluctuations in which areas are commercial aviation hubs but

we need to be certain that this doesn't compromise safety and they're being transitioned over to other openings as quickly as bob. i'm eager to hear from mr. allison about the details and what is in place to help with the transition and what outreach developments are taking place. i look forward to hearing from captain canoll about other security on the plane. the selfless pilots are subject to intense training and prepare themselves for dangerous threats on aircrafts. i'm eager to learn more about the training they receive and how the rebelment is evolving to the current security threats. thank you for your leadership and for convening this hearing. i look forward to the productive dialogue with our colleagues. i yield back the rest of my

time. >> okay. opening statements may be submitted for the record. we are pleased to have a distinguished witness with us before the topic. the entire written statement will appear in the record. the first is roderick rod allison who began serving as the assistant administrator of the federal air marshal office. i would like to note that i met with mr. allison yesterday in advance of his testimony here today. and if he displays the same kind of candid demeanor yesterday i think we'll have a very productive hearing.

i look forward to hearing from you sir. i now recognize you for five minutes. >> thank you members of the subcommittee. i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to testify about the federal air marshal service or phams. it's to detect, deter or defeat any threat against our systems. we deploy federal air marshals throughout the world. 365 days a year, utilizing a complex set of operations. fams are law enforcement officials who are prepared for the challenges associated with a difficult working environment. favms operate at 35,000 feet and they have no backup to call upon. the fams is unique in its ability to remain flexible and to rapidly deploy hundreds of law enforcement offices in response to specific evolving threats within the transportation domain around the world. in consultation with the department of homeland security fams completed an updated concept of operations.

while the focus remains on the highest risk flights adversary -- on any u.s. carrier flight. a risk by flight methodology is under development which will include mission planning based upon passenger travel patterns. assess passenger risk, and consideration for air part locations with known vulnerabilities. in addition to deploying fams on board aircraft, fams alsos a seems intermodal response or viper teams at a lot of teams in all modes of transportation. the teams can be made up of several different components of tsa each working with federal state and law enforcement officers to ensure the safety and security of our

transportation systems. i is made up of dead -- it is made up of dedicated officials. since becoming fams director in june of 2014 i have implemented several workforce engagement initiatives to enhance communications and to promote the highest level of professionalism in the workforce. my deputy director and i have conducted nearly 50 office visits in town hall sessions across the country. i have personally visited each site and meet with personnel at all levels to communicate expectations, address concerns and answer questions. i recently launched a director's award which honors one nonsupervisor employee at each office who serves as a a role

model to their colleagues. i have also initiated a thank you campaign where hundreds have received letters for their noteworthy accomplishments. additionally, fams continues to provide our workforce with the resources and support they need to carry out the mission. as part of the effort, fams has mandatory physicals and psychological assistant programs available to the workforce and their families. and they're available any time, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. fams recognizes the value of the programs for the workforce and as they're demanding both physically and mentally we will make them available to our personnel. fanns completed a staffing and field office assessment review in order to manage effectiveness and to ensure fams are located

in offices that are positioned in a risk based manner to color the flights. and six field offices have closed or will be closing in the next year, and personnel were reassigned to the most critical offices where service -- which service the highest risk flights. the federal marshal service is a strong place and our workforce is prevented to disrupting criminal and terrorist acts on board the aircraft and in the transportation domain. i appreciate this committee's partnership and your support for our critical mission. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. i look forward to answering your questions. >> that's pretty remarkable. i don't think anybody spoken with two seconds of the five-minute limit. that's pretty good.

if that's part of your organizational skills i'm impressed, sir. we appreciate you being here. i recognize myself for five minutes to ask questions. with the reinforced doors on the planes and we have pilots that are armed and passenger information collected via the secure flight, is the need for the federal air marshal service the same or is it declining? >> well, mr. chairman i would tell you if i didn't believe in this mission i wouldn't be in this job. all the things you cited are improvement things that would have happened over the years and as we like to say, you know, no one element -- or no one layer stands on its own. so we need to have federal air marshals on the flights and the partnership with the programs and we need to work on the

improvements on the hard cockpit doors. and the secondary barriers. so those things will be on going. and as we get to a place where we're satisfied that those things are in place, that officially mitigate the threats that we see, we'll start looking elsewhere we can be effective and where we can add value and make a difference. >> what additional changes do you think the air marshal service could put in place? >> i mentioned in the opening statement we are looking at a model of a risk by flight. so with that, i -- maybe it sounds pretentious but i'd like to think we're really good at that. we'll examine are the flights flying over the critical

infrastructure, in addition to using the passenger information from and we are moving to the model where we can utilize the information available to make better judgments of how we assign our personnel. >> is there any new initiatives that you're planning for the opportunity fiscal year? for the upcoming fiscal year? >> with respect to operations? >> yes. >> we recently amended the concept of operations that was started by the former director, but i was able to get that over the goal line. but in that construct, what we did was we really took a look at how we were deploying our federal air marshals. since the advent of 9/11, a number of things we were required to do. for instance, mandatory flight levels, looking at long haul flights and looking at the particular areas of the country and giving them certain priority

levels. we have actually readjusted that and i think it's going to make us more productive, more unpredictable and we'll be able to, you know, be seen and have air marshals on flights where we wouldn't have coverage. i'd be happy to share that with you during your conversation. >> i appreciate that. you mentioned i think they call it a secondary door and that's something that some groups have been interested in with respect to additional airline safety. so when a pilot is coming out of the cockpit for that temporary moment when the door is open to have sort of barrier there. i know now in flights they have a cart turned sideways and the flight attendant is standing behind the cart. so someone isn't able to get up to the cockpit door right away. is that something that should be

considered or necessary based on your knowledge and experience? >> i think it's absolutely necessary to take a look at and see if it works. if it's effective. and if it's something that's going to, you know, result in less resources and more protection and security for the flight crews. as you stated, the flight crew does bring out the cart and block the entrance for the pilot to use the facilities. so we are working and have been for a number of years with boeing, the faa. i was just informed yesterday that there are some foreign partners that have an interest in looking at this as well. so that work will continue. >> you know, one other thing we touched on yesterday there's been a concern within the industry about the federal air marshal service booking flights close to the time that the plane is set to take off within the

24 hours in particular. if first class is full, they get bumped out of first class, they can't tell why and that leads to consternation and difficult explaining to trying to attempt to do with a passenger who paid for a first class ticket and no longer able to sit in first class. have you looked into this issue since we spoke? >> i did look into the issue of deadheading. i'll get to that in a second. but specifically to your question mr. chairman, you know, these young women and women who fly these flights, they're having to submit their schedules and availabilities six -- 60 days in advance. two months in advance is when we start the scheduling process. as i related to you yesterday, sir, i know more than anybody that what we do is necessary. it's important. but at the same time it does impact the industry to some degree.

over the course -- i think it was 2014, june 14 and 15 the amount of economic impact to air marshals was 0.11 in the entire industry. as you can sense, we are sensitive to that. and we make all attempts to minimize the disruption to their business. >> okay. i guess going to reach out to the airlines and make sure you're on the same page to that. the bottom line is we want to make sure that the disruption to passenger traffic is as minimal as possible and allows you to fulfill your duties going forward. i guess planning is the best we can do. >> absolutely.

i'll make sure -- >> appreciate that. the chair recognizes the ranking member of the subcommittee, ms. rice, for any questions she may have. >> thank you. if you were given a wish list of improvements that you can make to your agency, what would they be? >> the first thing i would put on that wish list is the ability to hire. you know as i go through across the country and talk too fellow air marshals the number one question is what is the future of the organization? not being able to hire has a detrimental feel to the workforce. if i was able to hire i'd open up and allow employees to move to places where they would want to go conceivably. the workforce is getting older. a lot of people that we hired in the beginning of 9/11 as i told

the chairman yesterday, they'll be walking out the door in 2021. i asked for the chair for his support to get to that where do we want to be in five years? so that is the number one issue that i would put on my wish list and in big, bold letters. i think the other thing that the men and women of the federal air marshal would say is this is a tough tough job. all of us have flown and we have crossed time zones. we know how tough that is. these men and women do this job and they're exceptional men and women. i can't tell you how proud i am of the work they do. it's tough to recognize them for that. i think over the years, the constant reporting of the misconduct which is a very small percentage of our workforce and i would submit to you every organization has misconduct. i'm not condoning it because i'm zero tolerance when its comes to that. everybody has an internal

affairs division and they're all busy, but the challenge of leadership is to make sure that our people know what the standards and expectations are and what they'll be held to. that starts with me on down throughout the organization. so to your point, the second, you know, highlighted bullet would be a little be a little bit more support and recognition for the tough job they do. >> two other questions. you started a thank you campaign to help improve morale. can you explain what that is? >> sure. when you think of the challenge of security work, any security profession, you do your job. nothing happens. and, you know, it's tough to recognize people for that sort of activity. so what we really did was take a hard look at what our people are doing and we get reports every

day of federal air marshals that are providing medical assistance to people on the flight in distress, whether it's oxygen ivs or putting on the devices, stopping at roadside -- traffic accidents on the way to the airport, or from the airport. assisting police in arrests from the airport. so there are a whole lot of activities that have a direct effect on the core of the mission. so what my staff does as the reports come in, they comb the reports and we -- it's very simple. we write a thank you letter. we understand that you were involved in this activity yesterday. thank you. i think so far i kind of lost count since maybe -- maybe 600 over the year. 200 something this year alone. so we think it a low cost way for showing appreciation on our

employees -- >> i couldn't agree more. how do you make the edetermination edetermination -- to the determination what offices will close? how do you come to conclusion of closing this office? >> i believe two years ago if not three the former director embarked upon a study where they looked at the flights that were in those offices that were identified for closure. i think it's important to note that the airline industry has undergone major consolidations over the years. and, you know, in one particular area,pittsburgh, cleveland, cincinnati, several pulled out of the airports so that had a lot to do with are these resources here, would they be better utilized to putting them to the larger offices that we have? there were ten that people were

allowed to go. that was the metric used to determine quality of flights to be very can did. that's a reason. >> thank you for your service and for the service of all of your employees and i yield back my time. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you ms. rice. i want to echo ms. rice's sentiments about thanking you and the employees for the great job you did. i was speaking to ms. rice before the meeting began and we're willing to come out to provide you support and help boost the morale. >> i appreciate that. i think that would be most appreciated and i think you'd enjoy it. >> good. now the chairman will recognize the members of the committee for which questions they'll ask the witness. in accordance with the committee's rules and practices i'll recognize you by seniority and those coming in will be

recognized in the order in which they receive. the chair recognizes mr. carter. >> thank you for being here. i have a couple of questions. i'm just inquiring i'm not confrontational, i don't want you to be defensive. but first of all, thank you for what you do and thank all your members and your staff for what they do. this important, we understand that and we appreciate it. but it's my understanding that many countries assess a fee or a tax if you will on airlines whenever we have a passenger from the u.s. landing in their country. is that true? now, you have to understand i have not traveled much. in fact i said before this committee that i have only been to two countries in my life and that's one more than i wanted to go to. so i'm asking you s that true? >> mr. congressman, i'm not ai were of that. >> well, the way i understand it, what i understand is that

the airlines have to absorb this fee because the federal air marshals don't compensate for it. it's my understanding that the airlines are having to absorb this fee and that's just something i need to understand, need to inquire about. >> i'll provide you a follow-up on that. >> thank you. i want to follow up on a line of questions that i believe the chairman of the subcommittee, mr. katko, had addressed earlier. that's about air marshals flying first class. it's my understanding and i heard some horror stories to be quite honest with you. i heard a story that's been communicated to us where there were like six air marshals flying first class and another group on a competing airline -- the flight got cancelled, they came over and they wanted first class seats also and then the whole first class cabin was taken up by air marshals.

that doesn't seem right. can you provide to us how often they're flying first class. i flew first class one time, that was not by choice, that was the only seat to do. i was with my family, and they started to fight about who was going to go to first class and i decided it was going to be me. how do they get to five first class? >> i can't ark in the meeting about our seating. but i will assure you as i stated before our impact upon the aviation industry we view it as a partnership. you know, as a matt over practice, those things are managed to a very high degree. so i look forward to having a private conversation with you in a closed setting and i will give

you the full plethora of information to where we sit and why we sit there. >> i certainly respect that. i understand there are situations that you would. but it seems to me like you wouldn't need the first whole first class cabin. >> i would agree with you. >> i expect you would. i can understand if it's sensitive or not, but especially in light of the fact that we made so much progress on the doors -- the cabin doors now to where they're secure that the -- that the real target is going to be around the wings and the fuel tanks and that's where we ought to have the marshals am i correct in that? >> well, sir, when you get to the notion of -- as you're referring the revolveing threat of the ieds every day in tsa we

start with intelligence briefings. i don't have to tell you, gentlemen, the threat to this country has never been higher. it's debatable i would agree with you has it evolved or have our adversaries chosen additional methods to cause us harm? doesn't mean that the old ones went away and we can ignore them. we're not sitting around and waiting for the last threat. but we're looking for the new threat. we have our eye on that and we're looking at ieds on aircraft, potential to do so. i will tell you, christmas day 2009, i was at home preparing dinner with my mother and i got the call this guy who tried to light his underwear on fire. we weren't on that flight but we were on the one just before that. if there's an incident on the aircraft i'm confidence our --

confident our folks are going to respond. i guess to your point is, wherever that incident is we're going to respond to it. >> okay. well, you see where i'm going with this and just i mean i'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but please let's make sure we're taking care of this. again, thank you for your work and what you do. >> you're welcome. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. carter. the chair now recognizes mr. walker from north carolina for questioning for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. allison, thank you for being with us here today. it's a privilege to put a face with a title there. my question is as a matter of policy, the federal air marshals fly out of an aircraft approximate to their home and are there instances where they need to fly out of an assignment begins? can you give me a back drop about how that's laid out? >> sure, i have not heard that.

we are activity looking through the industry engagement office to sort of get some more information. as a matter of policy that is not something we do. as long as i'm director that's not something we'll do. >> but you -- are looking into that as far as the reports we hear? >> yes, sir. so i want you to understand, i have been pretty busy over the last year. but my strategy going forward is to really start looking out and having some more conversations with the airline industry. airline ceos, you know, some of the law enforcement association groups and things like that. so more discussion, but i'm going to look into that and make sure if it's happening it needs to be reported. it's a misuse of position. >> it is a misuse of position. a lot of us come from different

backgrounds, ministry, law, business. and a general manager doesn't necessarily know how to do every specific position underneath the scope of the country. but as an overseer his job is to sort of pay attention to what the details are. sometimes i wonder are you so busy with the day to day that you get caught up in the different things that are going on or are you overwhelmed with specific tasks you should be -- >> i can assure you i am not overwhelmed because i have a great staff. if i need to immerse myself in the day to day business every day i have the wrong staff. i have the right staff and i am not immersed in the day to day business, to the degree that i'm blind to things that i need to be focused on. to talk to the managers about what's going on and using the employee advisory groups and listening to, you know, people

outside the organization it gives you that perspective. >> i appreciate the confidence that you talk about this. i know we can't talk about in the open hearing, but as far as the open flights i want to catch up with you. what sort of physical evaluations are conducted the federal air marshal suitability? you feel good about that? you talked about burnout, stress, and stretching the budgets. do you feel like the guys are in a good position to be doing the job? >> that's a constant monitor, where you shoot for perfection. you aim for perfection. knowing you'll never get there. so we do have a mandatory physical for -- myself included. for all the credentialed personnel. once a year you get a physical and there's psychological screening. you have to answer a series of questions about you have experienced or maybe not experienced.

physical fitness. you know, we have a pretty good physical fitness program. you know, it's not mandatory. it's mandatory to participate. but, you know, we can't remove people from federal service because they can't do 20 push-ups that's what i'm getting at. we provide a number of exercises and alternative exercises for people to participate in. but to the root of your question, are we watching our personnel, do we give them avenues for assistance and absolutely. absolutely. >> yeah. that 20 push-up rule in congress we might be thinned out ourselves. i'm married to a trauma nurse practitioner. flies in the drama helicopter but if on the way home there was an accident she'd be the first one jumping out of the car. for those flying off duty is

there a protocol to react if there was something -- can you tell me about that? i know once they fly to a certain place, like other pilots, maybe their hours have expired. can you talk about what the protocol is if they're off duty and a situation arises? >> sure. i can assure you that anything that our personnel sees in their presence they're going to react. that's quite a bit. that was the impetus behind the thank you letters. >> thank you. my time is expired. i yield back to the chairman. >> thank you. mr. payne is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. timing is everything. good morning. let's see. so mr. allison could you detail for us the thoughts on the

future of the federal air marshal service? >> how do i see the future of the federal air marshal service? >> yes. >> what i see, mr. congressman, is a viable counterterrorism force that supports the counterterrorism efforts of this government. we may be smaller and leaner, and you know, our budget dollars are tight and we have to do our part. but i will assure you that the threats that we face now unfortunately they may be with us for a little bit. you know we're constantly looking for ways to make sure that, you know, we're adding that value that i was talking about. assessing the threats, watching the intelligence. you know making sure that we are operating in line with the u.s. government counterterrorism efforts. you know, led by the fbi. looking at the secure flight data as we had talked about earlier. and making sure that we are well

positioned within the aviation industry to thwart any threats. it was mentioned about the office closures. where we are now, we are situationed -- situated with 80% of the traveling public is where we are aligned as we speak today. that's a pretty powerful sort of statement. >> okay. and, you know, when the committee last held a hearing on fams and the 112th congress examined allegations of cronyism among other issues in the workforce, you know, detail for us the state of the workforce today. what the practices were -- what practices were put in place to address these concerns and also, what is the attrition and re retention rate of the officers?

>> the attrition rate is at 6%. it was 5 at the end of last year, but it's 6% right now. to your point about the i.g. report, i testified at that hearing. i was deputy director back then. the -- it's important to note that it was allegations of discrimination and retaliation which they found none. but they did highlight that there was a rift between the workforce and the leadership. a lot of that came from how we were stood up. the workforce was hired and then the leadership was brought in. i will tell you today as we sit here, 92% of the leadership is from within the rank and file of the organization. the ranking member talked about pre-9/11. i was at fam in 1998 i went through the same training that the men and women went through.

i left and came back but that was in large part due to the issue between the workforce and the leadership so what do we do about it? clearly there was a need to enhance the communication within the organization. provide more transparency, more opportunities with respect to ground based assignments. more transparency and objectiveness to the promotion process. so there were a number of workforce initiatives put in place right after that. and since my return, you know, i have sort of upped the ante, so to speak on some of the communication efforts and making sure i'm more visible to the workforce. i was sharing with the chairman that i'm out muns a month and i'll -- once a month and i'll continue to do that. >> so you're saying that the allegations of discrimination an what have you were unfounded? >> well, the i.g. said they had

no evidence of widespread discrimination. but they did highlight the perception of that was sort of prevalent. >> okay. let's see. you know i only have 25 seconds left so in the interest of time i'll stay within the rules and yield back. >> thank you, mr. payne. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. ratliff. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate you convening this subcommittee hearing so we can to do the work we have been focused on here in terms of making our airports and airlines safer. and director allison, i thank you for being here today. one of the roles that we have here obviously is to make sure that our airlines and airports are as safe as possible and as -- at a cost of nearly $800 million a year to sustain

the federal air marshal service we obviously need to look closely at its viability, its effectiveness. so i appreciate you being here to answer some questions. as you know we have had some gaps and issues with respect to airport and airline security here at this subcommittee. we have convened hearings. we had former acting tsa administrator here melvin caraway talking about the improper screening of employees at airports. back in june we had the inspector general here talking about the fact that tsa failed to identify 73 airline employees that had links to terrorism. so we all know that we have had some issues. with tsa security that we need to address. so i want to focus on your agency efforts here or the air marshal service issues. so one of the things that happened back in april was there

were reports that an on-duty air marshal left a loaded pistol a bathroom at newark liberty international airport. i want to ask you about thats in department in particular. can you give us background about your investigation into that particulars in department? >> sure. whenever there is an allegation of misconduct that allegation is referred to the office of inspection and they do the investigation and the former add men administrator set up an office and that incident was investigated and referred to the office of special responsibility and i think there is discipline pending. >> it begs the question, and that one became publicized because of how the pistol was

recovered, but to the extent of the question are there other things that have occurred and has it been a particular problem for you? >> you have mistakes and you have misconduct. you have as you stated, breaches of protocol so the number happens, and people that engage in this activity they don't confess or wear t-shirts, you have to find them. what we do is imtpau size the rules. you don't get, you know an infinite number of bites at the

apple, right? this young man, unfortunately, made a mistake and it's probably going to cost him. >> director, i am by way of background a former terrorism prosecutor myself, so i certainly understand the threat that that herb poses to our country, generally and specifically to air safety, and obviously i believe in the core mission, but i would like to understand if it's possible for you to talk about when we look at the cost of maintaining the service, can you give us any idea how many onboard threats have been minimized by the federal air marshal service? >> sure. so mr. congressman, let me answer your question this way. in the aftermath of 9/11, when

those buildings were smoldering in d.c., the pentagon the world trade center we were removing the wreckage from pennsylvania and burying 3,000 of our country men, we were asked to stand at the air marshal service to make sure that never would happen again and it hasn't, and i would like to take credit but i kpt because it goes to the apparatus this country put in place. we are part of the apparatus, and together as a country we have thwarted a lot of terrorists attacks and some we were involved in and many we weren't. it's known all over the world we have federal air marshals on the aircrafts, and i can't point to a fact mr. congressman but i can assure you that that's something everybody knows about and in some small way that is

probably why we have not had something in the country since then. i know that was not your direct question, but that's my thought. >> sure, again thanks for the work you do. my time expired and i yield back. >> thank you, and a question from the chair and then we will take a brief recess and go to the second panel. you mentioned something with mrs. rice. there has been a hiring freeze at the federal air marshal service? >> yes sir. we have not hired -- our last class was in 2011. we ramped up to the tune of 400 or 500 air marshals but that was the last class we had. >> there has been a block increase but overall you have not been hiring in the last few years? >> no, sir. >> you have an $800 million

budget? >> yes, sir. if you are not having any additional hiring since then and the budgets remain relatively static? what are you doing with the money, because i know you are losing marshals and everything else, so what is happening with the additional money? >> there are no additional funds because the budget is planned in accordance with attrition. >> so do you have sufficient funding moving forward to have another class or do you think another class is required and needs additional funding or what? >> for this year obviously the process is still going on from what the initial reports that i have seen, probably not this year, and we are going to make another run for next year. we will submit here through the department to the congress a comprehensive report on what i believe -- what we believe as a

department decide what the number should be. that's coming up soon. >> two questions and then i will be done. the first one -- just one question moving forward. there has been some discussion in law enforcement circles that if other law enforcement personnel are on the flights whether it's necessary to have a federal air marshal on those flights? are you familiar with that question and how do you think it would work? >> when we stood up the organization and we took a hard look at that. it really relies on us getting that data and the travel data and being able to plan towards it. we do our scheduling to minimize the disruptions of the airlines and we start 60 days in advance, so there are a lot of times when our flights, we have other law enforcement who are traveling and they made reservations days

before, so we don't have the ability to plan around that. on a strategic level we did look at that on places where we see a large number of law enforcement officers in travelers and we reduced our numbers there. it's challenging. >> last question, i promise. what percentage of the overall employees did the air marshal service are marshals in the air as opposeded to administrative personnel on the ground? >> i don't have a percentage for you and i will get you one. they are flying federal marshals or direct support, and they do the training. when you go back to the operation center they have federal marshals there and federal marshals that work on

the joint assistance and the mission support staff, we're very lean in that respect. >> if you can get us those percentages, that would be great. i want to thank the witness for his testimony. he was very helpful and thank the members for questions as well, and we have a second panel coming up. we will ask you to respond to these in writing if you would. and the hearing record will be open for an additional 10 days and without objection this sub committee stands adjourned for a very brief recess.