the advising program they have seen application rates about 12% to 15% just in the first couple of years. i went to one of them and i talked to the students there. a number of them will go to junior college. and another from junior college to carolina. i went as a junior college as part of my own background. i had no idea how meaningful that would be. the students had a couple on tape afterwards and said the chancellor at unc went to junior college. so i don't think we can underestimate how few touches can have such an impact. the students come in and get that advising with a young, amazing north carolina graduate. and it just changes the world. then we built another program to work with the junior colleges and carolina in about the last six years started to really can admit students. if they get selected in their first year and they achieve a certain level of success first of all, they graduate from the

two-year school. and the graduation rates are extremely low. they get automatic guarantee to get into unc chapel hill. it has been phenomenal. and if you meet some of those students, you would be blown away. one of them i met grew up in nigeria from a very poor family, war-torn area. saw is a poster of unc and dreamed about being at unc. how she ever made it i can't tell you. went to unc, head of her class in nursing, going to medical school. so we have to keep remembering not all students will do the traditional path. but if we're going to make accessibility, affordability the brand for our nation, we need to do this. we need to start before. we need to give the support they need. we need the advising on the ground. and we need to continue to draw from such a broad range that we don't miss so many students who are out there. if we start doing that and we

have programs that can help universities do this and we have programs that can do it in places where graduation is what they do, i think we have a real chance to change things in the next three to five years. so i look at what's happening in the news right now. and i hope you'll ask me a lot of questions on any of these subjects. how are we going to make the dream of higher education really the dream of this country and reverse the trend that really has been taking over our nation fewer people applying higher sent. i hope in the next decade we really do achieve that. i wouldn't be standing here if i didn't go to college and work as a waitress and pay my way through college. i did it years ago. couldn't be done now. i wanted to make sure all the other people like me and probably like you out there have that chance. and i think we have some good ideas about how to do it.

so thank you for listening. and looking forward to answering questions. [ applause ]. >> thank you, chancellor. we have quite a few questions. i'm glad you're ready for this. the 2015-2016 tuition, i think you mentioned the price is $33,644 for out of state. and $8,562 for in-state. while that's still a good deal the growth and tuition since the early 1980s has increased six times rate of inflation. in-state students it is five times the rate of inflation. what has caused this huge increase? will we ever see the costs slowing down even dropping below it. >> thank you. it's a really great question. well, i mean, i am in a great public university. and i am part of a university

where the state tax payers do really expect the majority of the support to go for in-state students. what we have been doing, and so in times when there was annen trenchment, we didn't choose those. they have been ledge slated for us where to take the increase. that $30,000, as you said, is stillo compared to our peers. right now i think it's hard tore get into unc chapel hill from out of state than any school in america. it is a great place to go. they want to go. so what we have been doing to counter that is using philanthropy and nonstate targeted dollars. they're eligible for the covenant, which i think is great. some of our covenant scholars do come from out of state. it is 50% of our covenant scholar ises are first generation out of state. 60% are students of color. we really do try to use these banner programs to attract them. for me in the future a lot of

our money that is not already targeted will be going to try to keep those levels down. i think many states don't understand truly the benefit of the influx of students from out of state. first of all all the students want to meet people from everywhere. when students move to a place like chapel hill, they want to stay there forever. but they do come. they are important parts of building a state. and i think other institutions handle that differently. that's something we think about a lot. >> a host of students now coming to universities that are undocumented immigrants but spent most of their lives in the country. many cannot afford the pay the high out of state tuition. is there anything the university can do to help the students in this situation. >> you are hitting the really big issues i was saying earlier. i'm wearing the pin from our

latino/latino organization. it is a growing part of the population in north carolina. we are not one of the institutions that forgives for out of state. so we use philanthropy to be able to cover out of state rates. it's huge if they can't get the out of state rate. we have recently had -- our state now makes it possible for all active duty mill personnel to have in-state rates. that is another under served population we want to get actively involved. so we're moving in that direction. there are about 30 states. weren't you saying earlier that might actually do that. i think beyond that what we have to do right now is continue to find resources that can be used in the areas of most critical need. until you can get that -- if you can forgive it at the state level, it would really help in

that area. >> some have argued making college more accessible can be a decrease in academics for the university students. do you agree? >> this one i would have paid for you to ask me. that's such a great one. this is great. i have a figure, we don't show tables and figures here. good thing. academics will never leave the stage. it shows a diagram of all the students who come in on the carolina covenant. it imposes them on the quality of the entire unc entering class. if you were to pull out the covenant and the need-based aid students every single metric valedictorian, gaap, goes down. so i am absolutely -- i don't buy into the argument that it has anything to reducing quality. i do also realize, though, being part of a great institution you do get to draw the students who

have is that capacity. and so part of the issue is what do we do then for the next tier of students who don't have that? how do we get them performing at a level they could? but we are really drawing an incredible population. so their ability to graduate and lead the world in many different ways is is absolutely there. we have to make sure they can graduate. >> a lot of questions in the united states now about testing. how do you monitor the quality of your education? some of the factors you mentioned, problem-solving critical thinking et cetera. how do you monitor that? how do you the grade that in some form? >> i think i have an english professor with me. she might tell you how hard it is to grade a paper and even feel like it is absolutely perfect. university versus many ways of assessing individual performance. we give tests and grade papers and give lots of feedback. what we aren't so good at doing is the emergent hole when you

finish. most schools, and through accrediting, many of us have been leading in this way. there is a lot of effort put through every major to understand that very clear skill sets, critical thinking problem-solving, are increasing. again, i'm most concerned if we move to an educational system that starts looking like mass production, we will lose the critical piece of feedback experimentation, risk taking that are the great thinkers that cannot only create a job but take new jobs. a chapel hill study that i do want to mention in the new york times where they redid all their intro s.t.e.m. courses. we want the population to be able to take science, technology, engineering and math. they did two separate classes.

one where everything was discussion based, hands-on learning. they still had to take the same tests. another more traditional. the gap between low income students in those two ways of teaching completely closed. so there are ways that we can change the way we educate that will have really measurable progress. but that's kind of in the infancy. i'm sure metrics are part of that. but it's not always something easy to measure. >> let's talk politics for a second. higher education seems to be bearing the brunt of fierce political attacks across the country. as we have seen, for example, in wisconsin. as head of a major public university, what message do you want to send to politicians to have greater accountability and faculty who want to keep their tenure and academic freedom? >> this is when i turn to you. you probably have the answers to that question. i think one of the big problems

right now about higher education is we tend to talk about it as a monolithic. i'm talk building carolina. i told you what it was like to begin. to make clear, it's the same as many other institutions. we need to be much more knew answered and understand what community colleges do and look at our historic black colleges and universities. we need to find what the great research universities do. we need to start building in the metrics of success based on what they are their mission and what they're actually doing. i think that's one of the problems. second, everyone is quite willing to do efficiency. it is a big -- it isn't true -- i mean, yes, universities are like herding cats. but they are innovation centers. every single invention that makes your life better has actually come from a university. some beginning of that

innovation. our industry right now in america used to be 70% r&d and industry 30. it has moved to less than 30% in industry and all in university. so to be that innovative you have to be flexible. again, we need to talk about the specifics. it's important to understand that where economies come in, you should allow universities to feed it back in to the innovation. i think there's a lot of misunderstanding there. the biggest misunderstanding is what they bring value. i saw the university of wisconsin did this study. we did one in north carolina. and that's $7 billion, about a $7 return for every dollar. well, it's more than that for every dollar given to us by the state. we just aren't -- i think in part we aren't giving the knew answer. the last thing tenure and academic freedom, i think you would destroy america. if you destroy american universities by eliminating

academic freedom. i think that is at the core. what it is exactly might be misunderstood. it may be abused. it may be things like that. but in general the idea that what people study and the work they do has to be held to a standard that is not bound by the mores of the day is really important. tenure still serves an important purpose. although i understand i don't think tenure means no accountability. that's another mistake. even tenures go through post-tenure review. they have to achieve levels of accountability that are important. i think we need to make those things understood. >> by your answer i'm going to guest that you supported president barack obama back in all of his plans to have government rate government higher institutions. >> yes. >> we'll get through a lot of

these if the answers are like that. speaking of college costs, do you think the trend of colleges including public universities, having nicer and fancier dorms fitness facilities buildings contributes to the problems of the rising college costs? >> it does. it does. you know, people try to figure out what are the main drivers that have increased cost. facilities are part of it. most of america's great universities were built in the '20s and '30s. we have an aging infrastructure. they cost a lot more money now than they used to because we have to comply with all sorts of standards that are very different. to say it's -- it's a tiny fraction of what it really is. there is also a race for better facilities for students, where they live.

and i understand that. i do think though we are part of the times. i used to send my son to a camp that didn't believe in having mosquito netting. i wanted him to be tough. you they aren't coming out of that. that's not what they're looking a lot. he didn't like that either. that was a new hampshire thing. but, you know i do think we are sort of working with the student generation. and i think what's actually more important than fancy facilities is that they feel they are part of a place where the facilities will allow them to be part of the great things that are happening. so, for example, if i'm going to put something in at unc i want to put in maker space. you might say we shouldn't do that. they are just rooms you build into dorms. they might have a 3d planter, new expensive digital equipment. in the basement in a dorm of north carolina last year, a young student in his junior year

had been working with a disadvantaged child in the region who had to have an artificial hand. as he was growing, they couldn't afford the $100,000 to build the hand. for $20 with a 3d printer in the basement of a dorm, he built him an artificial hand. that's what students want. access to stuff that will let them do great things. they want to be fit and feel part of the action. but they are really still looking at things that we want to give them. and that's really where i think we get the best return. >> thank you. now to a little bit more controversial question. recent events, including campus shootings and campus police use of weapons of pepper spray and guns put a spotlight on the powers of the police officers. what do you consider to be the role of campus police and what limit should be place on them with when dealing with students or citizens? should they be allowed to be

armed with live ammunition and should students be allowed to carry guns on campus? >> well, the idea of whether you carry guns in a public institution, i don't get to make that choice. that is a decision by the state legislature. of course we know across the country there are different decisions by different legislativers. a lot of them do want guns to be allowed on campus. usually they have to be locked up. it's rare. i don't see a campus where people walk around with pistols and are doing that. i think every college president and chancellor is deeply worried about that. our campus police, what you saw and what has been in the news, i do not think reflects the majority of campus police. most campus police, and i'm not speaking directly from my police, but i knew every single

one at darting mouth. i met so many of them when we had our recent tragedy and we worked together. most of the campus police officers are campus police officers because they love students. i think there is a huge role for campus police to play as a liaison and safety coordinator on campuses and to interface with their towns. we have to get those partnerships to be very strong. we need to keep them really working. but students often really like their security police if they developed a relationship that is positive and strong. so i think there's a lot of work to be done there. but there are many great examples where they do it. our police just recently voluntarily decided to get cameras together with the local towns in part so they could stay to the students, we want to do this because we will do anything to make you more comfortable. these tragedies are highlighting it. every time something happens we go back and ask ourselves again

i have meetings with the police in all of our towns and the security police on our campus the next day. saying what can we do better? are we prepared for making sure this would never happen? but i think it's a tragedy. i don't think it reflects most security forces on campuses. >> sticking with the controversial for a minute. on the periphery of the campus is the silent sam memorial. in july it was vandalized to say kkk, murderer and black lives matter. as chancellor should the statue remain. if so, should any changes be made to the signage accompanying it? >> well, we've been through a major year our campus was really looking at not just the memorial but also names on buildings, and the issues associated with that. i think this is a very national issue. it isn't just the confederate

flag. i'm very happy to have my friend sam here. we have been thinking about it as an institution. and the aborted of trustees took action. they decided to rename one of the houses that had been named in honor of a person known to have been the leader of the kkk. they changed the name. it is now called carolina hall. at the same time they said we are not going to go down the road of changing every name. our state actually said you can't change memorials unless you get action from the state is. you know, so sometimes you're working in a very changing environment. so i have to adjust and work with whatever is happening around me. but what we really said we were going to do is spend amount of time understanding how to contextualize history. that is a big job. and that is going to require voices from throughout the community to come together to have those conversations what

does it mean to be from the oldest public university in america. people's names are on buildings from a time in the past to a time in the present. how do we honor the past learn from the past and then respect the dialogue that shapes today. so i can't give you the answer. but that is probably one of our top priorities going forward in this year. and i think that that memorial to silent sam is really just one of the pieces i think we're going to end up with much broader conversations that talk about the role of race in the south. i think we're going to be talking about the role of race in america. so these aren't confined to any one campus. these are some of our biggest issues of the day. >> recent revelations at such places as the university of oklahoma have cast a spotlight on the system of fraternities and sororities on campus. do you see it as a help or

hindrance to your efforts to make college more accessible to a more diverse population of students. >> he is going down the list of all the hard issues. you really did mean it. you know there's a great article -- actually the chronicle of higher education and a lot of the journals have been covering a lot of issues surrounding this. chapel hill is is less than 20% fraternities and sororities. so it is not a numerically that large. they are influential. they have a real place there. i think that the scrutiny that has been coming to campus starting with sexual assault but also binge drinking hazing, this is extremely healthy for universities. we need that kind of conversation. i will tell you as someone in higher ed for 30 years and a woman in higher ed. when i started in higher ed

nobody would go talk to anybody except the woman in the biodepartment. students suffering from sexual assault felt very little opportunity to talk. and most of the people driving these issues especially with gender, would have been women. this is really changing. we are seeing a lot more men and women talking about things. so i'm looking at the way the councils are changing our institution. the fraternities were the first to put in a whole program of sexual assault training. i'm not saying it is all perfect. but i am saying we need to continue to turn to the students themselves to involve them in the process. social engineering is a very difficult idea. and if you're going to really change people, you have to work with people. that does still mean you have to have very serious consequences when people are doing the things that we believe they should do. i think that the national

organizations have started to be more active. i think you're starting to see a much bigger movement towards getting people spaces that are not just associated with so errorities and fraternities. that's the big issue on a college campus, is they own houses. and students want to be part of a place that has separate spaces. so to really make this work we have to give alternatives where students can still have spaces so they don't necessarily find their only alternative in a greek system. they can find other things to give them that richness and experience. >> thank you. what would you like to see high schools do differently to improve the college readiness over incoming students? and along that line of questioning north carolina is reviewing its commitment to the common core state standards, most states have adopted them. do you think adopting common core will help the readiness of incoming college students?

>> i feel like i have an answer to the last one. i have not gotten that involved in the common core debate. although we spend a lot of time in education. the big focus for our university and the whole unc system is actually to get more ready teachers to really improve the pipeline of teachers and also improve the success of teachers in the classroom and the retention. and they have recently been really trying to deal with that issue. it's very important. i think we need to teach students in high school how to write and critically think. i think those are skills. i know every one of my generation is going to agree with that one. but it is something that we do see. the online world has done some positive things. some students read more because of the online world. i've never been a purist and said you have to read only one kind of book and write only kind of to be learning those skills. so we have things a lot our fingertips to engage students.

a lot of evidence shows if you can get a student to read anything, you can probably start directing them to read more of what you want. the online world has probably not helped very much in good writing or even critical thinking. people can use the online world to completely ignore critical analysis. in high schools, if given though right amount of help, they could take advantage of the age these students are, their excitement about this online world and use that in new and exciting ways to improve their skills. we need to make sure we schools have class sizes small enough to have engaged learning. there's not anything the same in being in a class of 60 or class of 30 no matter how super human that teacher is. i tend to believe we need to pay our k through 12 teachers more if they're going to be held to a

standard that's absolutely right. why we need to make it a viable career because we want great thinkers bring those 3.2 million students through high school that does prepare them. writing. i'm going to say math, too. that's an important skill. if we let them say i don't like algebra or geometry, we're allowing them to cut themselves off. >> two questions. how have unc's athletic recruccing processes changed and are there other lessons other universities can take from your experience particularly regarding the athletic scenario. >> more than 70 reforms. i think some of those reforms

are cutting edge. reforms not only in the way we monitor classes. the event that happened really that we talk about all the time should have been stopped. there should have been a process in place almost instantly that evaluated that chair every year and could have stopped it. it's the great tragedy to say, my goodness. we could have stopped it. we would stop it now. the better parts of it why we're a much stronger institution coming out of it than we might have been is we've redone our advising. so for example all this that i was telling you about the covenant scholars and that advising program we have a pilot program to share that exact same advising with all of our students including all of our athletic advising. we developed presumption eded programs to make sure they're not being tracked into a few majors. this is not just carolina but

it's really important. it's true for many students. many who work or may have other outside activities. may find themselves with a narrow subset. we're changing all of those sorts of things. these are the types of programs that help us recruit. most athletes that come to carolina are going to be great. they'll be on absolutely outstanding teams but they'll graduate and go on to careers that are not as active playing their sport. it is our job to recruit them to get a chance to play on a great team and go to a great university. it's putting our effort increasesingly on that duality. we of course you can come here and do both and then you have to make it real. >> unc students have put issues of race and diversity high on

their priority list. how do you facilitate the conversation about these tricky topucics as chancellor? >> when we have the death of the three muslim students, it was the most terrible moment you can imagine for anybody to wake up or to hear that that's going on. what i saw then was the beginnings of real opportunity. we saw that in charleston too. the families of the slain students were incredible. they came forward and they too said we want to talk about the love, the hope of these students and how our families produce wonderful children, how they grow and nurture a community. the community almost as a whole turned toward the celebration of life. and it had a big impact on the

way people started talking about these conversations. it doesn't mean people weren't extremely angry. but the anger was not the driver. we immediately put in a program we're calling carolina conversations and invited students to help us do it. it's going to be starting this year. the very first conversation was on race. in setting that up we went around to all the student groups. i invited students from every organization. students from across the political spectrum and every one of them committed to bring people to that meeting. one of the most meaningful conversations that i heard at that was between two young men different races talking and one of the students going, why are we here? we're supposed to talk about race. this is really hard. i'm not sure why i even came. this is so hard. and the other student said you came because this is the first

time and maybe the only time you would have ever talked to someone that looked like me. you don't have to worry about getting everyone in the conversation as much as starting the conversation and bringing students in and building these conversations out with real action items that people can try. the more experimental on these issues, the better. if we think every time we meet we have to change the entire curriculum, we won't make progress. but if we have an incremental idea try it and test it and back it back in place students will come and start believing in that process. i think that carolina conversations is one step, and stay tuned. i'll come back next year and tell you about the rest of them. almost every campus in america is going to be doing something or trying something like that.

i hope they are. >> before i ask the last questions, i have a few announcements. the national press club fights for a free press worldwide. for more information about the club visit www.press.org and to donate to our non-profit journalism institute, visit www.press.org/institute. tomorrow we're hosting the xhantd commandant of the united states coast guard and the john reverend bryant. and on august 18th mitch landrieu will speak from this podium. and registration is open for the beat the deadline 5k. go to press.org for more information. i'd like to present our speaker with the national press club mug which i'm sorry is not in carolina blue. >> thank you.

it's great. it's not duke blue either. >> so for our last question the last question, unc/duke basketball score this season and we're going to hold you to it. >> oh, my gosh. it's going to be a really good game. a high scorer. i'm giving carolina 96, duke 88. >> you heard it here first. thank you, chancellor folt. i'd also like to thank the staff and the broadcast center for organizing today's event. if you'd like are a copy of today's event go to press.org. thank you. we are adsjourned. on the next "washington journal," stephen dinan of the

kw washington times" talks about a recent article on the first six months of the 114th congress which examined congressional gridlock. and then myron ebell and jeremy symons of the environmental defense fund look at the obama administration's clean power plant which calls for a 30% reduction in green house gas emissions from power plants. plus your phone calls and facebook comments and tweets. "washington journal," live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. wednesday the senate banking committee holds a hearing on sanctions relief in the iranian nuclear agreement. we'll hear comments from wendy sherman. see her comments live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3. and after that more about iran with remarks from president obama at american university here in washington. he'll speak about the nuclear

agreement as he continues to argue for congressional and public support on the deal. the president begins live at 11:20 eastern on c-span. c-span radio takes you to the movies. hear four supreme court cases from "woman in gold." >> concerns mr. chief justice. the can of worms argument. we recommend opening the can. and extracting just the one little worm with a pair of tweezers and quickly closing it shut again. >> to "the people versus larry flunt flint." >> if jerry falwell can sue when there has been no libel of speech on the grounds of public speech then think of gary

trudeau and carson on the "tonight show." >> the watergate case from "all the presidents men." >> these two were assigned to it. these two were apointed to the case. >> burglars have their own counsel? >> that's right. >> that's kind of unusual isn't it? >> for burglars it's unusual. >> do you know the name of the counsel? >> and "the loving story" about the case invaldating the laws prohibiting interracial marriage. >> we pinch ourselves and say we're handling a major civil rights case. >> i'm not going to vote. >> that is the right of richard and milton loving to wake up in the morning or go to sleep at night knowing the sheriff will

not be knocking on their door. >> supreme court cases that played a role in popular movies. listen to c-span radio at 90.1 fm in the washington d.c. area, online at c-span.org or download our c-span radio app. next, a discussion on a recent state department report which rates countries across the world on efforts to combat human trafficking. from "washington journal," this is 40 minutes. >> we're back with mark lagon toesident talk about human trafficking worldwide and also in the unitedabout hu states. the state department with their latest report out on it last why week. why diddo they do these reports? what's the intent and hift rye congr here? >> congress decided in 2007,

really interesting time that congress was working more functionally than today when senator sam brownback on the senat right and on the left were working together in a coalition to fight sex trafficking.: it created the state department ent of office that i got to head. >> what's the intent of tracking this? >> really to try and deal with the problem. people's autonomy is completely removed and it's attractive to see that still they want toat slavery problem. >> how big of a problem is it? give our viewers an idea. >> it's a massive problem. let's take not a u.s. source butvative u.n. national labor organization and a conservative estimate. about 21 million people are

forced human labor and trafficking victims. that's about 3 in 1,000 people. three so any o 1,000 people in the world, 3 of them are human trafficking victims. that's a lot. >> where does it happen the ns under most, and what are the conditions under which it happens? >> there are many forms.the it can be sex trafficking of children adults, migrant workers who are construction workers in the gulf.ver cr people who never cross a border antage like many peopled who are the disadvantaged casts in india by the millions or a brick kiln. when i'm asked where is the biggest problem, there are three ways to answer the question. south asia and india. the persian gulf where the mostf, acute problem is and if you are are a a woman or migrant you aren't ccess likely to haveto access to oth justice. east asia. it has both sex trafficking and

labor trafficking in large numbers numbers. >> explain what's going on es there. >> there's controversy. it some of the most controversial grades given in this report are about countries in this region.en deb there's been a debate in the at f congress about the transpacific partnership at freedom hour we're ath human rights organization. we think thepaci transpacific partnership would be a good idea a g but thisoo question of whether some countries like malaysia vietnam, thailand, are they going to be good in the soft pass, and there's a question whether malaysia has been given a light touch in this report.er >> malaysia was upgraded if you will. explain the tier giv process and why malaysia was given an upgrade. >> unique among the human rights reports that they make the stateeloped

b department put out, this one gives grades. it makes ss countries change their laws. it does change their behavior. tier three countries are the lowest. they aren't making any effort at some all. tier two are making some progress but are sliding. tour two countries are making an effort but have a long way to go on and tier one countries meet most of the standards in the u.s. lawst: and u.n. treaties as well. >> so malaysia was upgraded. >> it was in the cellar.y tier three is still very problematic. let's take this from theer words raffic of the state department ffice, officials. the under secretary of state who oversees the trafficking office. very serious foreign policy confe specialist. shhae ind the press conference she had last week on july 27th cited by

in six things she was still disturbed by in malaysia that plemen they haven't implemented changest th to their law, haven't issued regulation, that their law enforcement is weak, their convictions are remarkably low for human traffickers despite and vi the large scale of the problem, de thatta victims are being detained are by the government in malaysia and passports of migrant workersing conf are being confiscated. and they still got an upgrade. >> talk about the map. u.s. trafficking. you said the upgrades and are th downgrades. green and orange countries received an upgrade. and the red yellow countries are ones downgraded. >> the ones that disturb me freedom house is also an organization outside of government that grades countries and looks at this sort of thing.seem

t my former students at georgetown joked i seem to like reports at j that giveum grades to countries. the ones that's jump out to me are the drop in slovenia and europe. let's not leave europe dro out of the picture.ct tha it dropped from the top rating venia to the lowest even though slovenia is a strong cannotountry in terms of press freedoms and civil liberties. northern africa, egypt sub-saharan africa ghana and costa rica dropping in central america. in that whole area of all the violence that has led people to migrate to the united states one of the examples of more solid rule of law has been costa rica but apparently not in human trafficking. >> i would just say there are s --

what i would call four howlers in terms of where it seems the howle state department's trafficking office lost in the bureaucratic battle. we talked about malaysia. saudi arabia has got to be in the gulf one of the worst in theigrant worst ins terms of migrants and peopl women being treated as less than human. uzbekistan uzbekistan. people are mobilized into forced labor in cotton picking. our slavery was cotton.. it's going on in uzbekistan. and the other one perhaps ing politicized is the upgrade of cube. i'd be happy to talk more about that, if you'd like. >> let's get to some calls. jed in san francisco republicans. go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: you all have been . talking about climate change and all kinds of other stuff.

the most pressing question for me is what about the squirrel that died on -- >> we'll go on to art in clearwater kansas. do you have a question about human trafficking? >> caller: i do. i sur we have to as a nation take a lead by example.ur a little concerned about what's going on in our own country in the seattle school district where they are giving iuds to children. i'd like to know how anyone can u can define thatdo as anything other than child sex trafficking. >> i wouldn't agree necessarily with that characterization about the policy in seattle. i need to know more details but i felt very strongly that the unite united states neededd to be an example.e we were doing a good job and continue to do a good job to promote efforts to fight this d problem. not

we shouldn't sweep under the rug what's going on. your caller emphasizes child sex trafficking. there's a substantial problem of child sex trafficking. those kids who are runaways and cking. throwaways from broken families n are in danger within the first dan 96 hoursge of being recruited into sex trafficking. gone and when we tell other countries that they need to help their ild victims and survivors and reempower them, need to remember that in the united states we in the often treat a child in ld b prostitution as someone who should be arrested and jailed. under the law and under international norms, that's a uch. human trafficking victim.ne we need to treat them as such. >> how do you define sex r trafficking and -- >> good question. >> labor trafficking. >> labor trafficking is pretty here a straight forward. if there are conditions of rosion

coercion forced fraud. and that person is a human an trafficking victim.ant they may even be a migrant who crosses borders undocumented. didn't have the intent if they were recruited or ey wou involved in fraudld or subject to force, then they'd be a human trafficking victim. >> the one thing everybody accepts anywhere is that someone who is a minor in prostitution, whether theyno crossed a border or not does not have informed consent. they are a sex trafficking victim. what's interesting is that as have we've movefod toward focusing more on labor trafficking being the it has bigger problem, it's become he politically less attractive to look at the adults. >> people's heart strings are tugged by children. everyone accepts a kid in prostitution you don't need to trings

get a into the details whether there was volition. some people feel the early human trafficking movement and my bush predecessor in the bush -- administration, john miller were singularly focused on sex n sex trafficking. i think it's very important we look at both problems.i and that was my small contribution in two years to what t look at both problems.end of j let's hear what the secretary had to say at the end of july when this report came out. >> we want to provide evidence nc ande an facts that's will help people who are already striving to achieve reforms to alleviate orms t suffering and to hold people de a accountable. we want to provide a strong incentive for governments at every level to do all that they can to prosecute trafficking and to shield at-risk populations. tha in conveying these messages, letwe ameri me acknowledge that even here inmprove the united states, we americans

need to listen and improve. like every nation we have a responsibility to do better. a better job of protecting thosee pass who live within their own borders.st: whose passports are taken away gu from them. >> what did you make of the secretary a comments? >> it reflects the traditional on t americanhe focus on prosecution man tr the law. even the u.n. treaty formed in 2000 emphasized prosecution. it's important for us to worry t about the victims. and not just finding them, which is hard and getting them shelter but how they might reclaim their lives and dignity.gnity. think about how they could d to h becomeel employed. he properly talks about the problem at home. t i think it's really important e fact for the use to tell the facts about what's going on here in

the united states and even though the report gives the united states the highest un possible grade, tier one countries are by no means perfect and especially since they tend to be rich, they have . means for addressing the problem. >> it provides tools to prevent trafficking and authorize the establishment of federal agencies to assist in the accordination of's he anti-trafficking efforts.a. let's hear from aaron next republican. hi aaron. >> caller: hello. how are you doing, ma'am? >> doing well. >> caller: i'm the supreme courtoma heal is talking about some stuff with microsoft and with oklahoma health care. there's a lot displayed on re the -- >> i'm not sure where you're this going with this but we're talking about human trafficking

ca worldwide in this country. good morning to you.viduals your question or comment. >> caller: yes, there's some individuals rescued from situations -- it is just so many steps to f the getting anfa individual to be cognizant of the fact they have rights. and how do you -- rescues how do this -- the great thing is how do you get them out?ow where how many steps are involved? is that your organization? i think you know where i'm goingrks with that. >> freedom house works on human nd the rights w broadly around the world. i previously headed one of the u.s. projects.e who those steps of re-empowering someone who is a survivor of human trafficking are many in number.empo it's hardwe to find human n traf

trafficking fivictims. they are told by their labor trafficker that if you go forward you'll be treated like an illegal immigrant or that you are at fault. you got yourself into t is prostitution. and all too often that is actually true that they'll be blamed. then even once you found them they tend to get housing but they sometimes don't get the full medical care they need.e basi theyca don't get follow care but they get the trauma. the best way someone can job re-claim their dignity is to have a job. if you don't give them the opportunity to get are a job or get training, they slide back into the old life or never really prospir.ims of >> are they h deported? >> one of the really good elements of the trafficking is the we have a humanitarian visa. you fin

if you find someone who is a human trafficking victim and youeir determine it wasn't their fault they came to the united states im undocumented, that they were a human trafficking victim subject to force, fraud, coercion, violence, they can be given a visa and stay hireere. and one of the reasons is to allow them to testify against the bad guy which is doubly for t justice. putting the bad guy away and ho also them getting access to justice themselves.foreve >> and allowed to stay forever resou and arerc there really -- >> j they stay for a while. a job? and one of the reforms that is necessary to deepen is the ability of feempeople to become come citizens after a natural clock starting on their ability to become so. >> calowell is next in virginia. i republican. >> caller: hathanks for taking my as broug call. att i have a friend who has brought

all of this to my attention in the last six or seven months. there's a lot of it going on in virginia which i was er: completely -- did not know. how do you discern. i'm in fredericksbrg. are there things look that happening in fredericksburg? >> theery are. i live in northern virginia. nearb there's a problem. i -- my church has a partnershipth a l with a local secular anti-human trafficking organization. there were sex trafficking in victims in my own town of arlington, virginia found in a bust in a hotel.there there are gangs connected to central america and transnational crime that pursued this. >> in virginia? >> in virginia.and in northern virginia. throughout virginia there are

cases of sex trafficking. even peoplere recruited out of their high school.lor and sometimes people of color and minorities. sometimes even not. li and then it's more prevalent other in places like florida or apple pickers in washington e pick state. but therewa some are migrant work workers for whom the conditions are sohuma severe that it's actually w human trafficking. >> what's going on in a state like virginia that there's this rade h sex trafficking trade happening? >> so the dirty little secret is an that men who buy women and girls for sex create the problem.ion i know that there's a distinction between prostitution at the adult level. and the most coercive forms of fficki humanng trafficking or child prostitution.t frankl but frankly it's not cool and

it's not okay that males buy females for sex because that market creates a magnet for the traffickers and we need to deal with that demand. we've learned from sting operations and subtle and in fact the existence of a larger sex market slides the male buyers down to wanting to buy he har children. it's notgoes only sort of the kos, hardened sickos the pedophile, the people pulled into that by the existence of this rampant market. >> john independent. >> caller: hi. yeah, i'm just calling to say that we're pretty hypocritical as a country on this issue. i mean i don't know much about t some it, about what's happening. some of them are winding up here

on visas that certain wealthy people will say and powerful people and they can pull these strings with the immigration system and they can get the women from thailand or whatever le, yo over here and places like vermont. after a while you can figure outsomebo what's reallydy going on.akeawa somebody boughtys them basically. >> one is the united states to not be hipypocriteical needs to look at what's going on inside its own borders. secondly, i think it's very important to pdistinctionguish undocumented workers from human

traffickers. it's important to realize there's a category of fact, undocumented workers who are in fact, human trafficking victims. dis we need to distinguish between ll the two and not sweep them all under the category of illegal aliens. your caller alludes to people h who are rich and privileged and can afford to bring people here. sometimes people haitians or people from some african cultures are so used to having the domestic servants who cannot leave the home and they can subject to violence and coercion that they bring the problem here to the united states in some cases. and the last thing which is truly revolting, and i tried to work on it are diplomats to use d diplomatic immunity to shield their mistreatment of domestic perso servants. there are many diplomats who .

have been taking a person from a third country and abusing them. >> there are gangs or groups bri thatng exploit the visa system and use it for bringing large amounts or more than one person are, over toan this country? a >> there are.roblem there are two different criminal problems that are related but not the same. human smuggling the actual moving of them across borders and human trafficking which is the coercion and violation of lem. the human rights problem. the language isn't very helpful. and in spanish, the -- it's trafico and trata. it's very ambiguous. of th it's helpful to think of this as modern slaverey. there are gangs that move people across borders. when those people don't know th that theyey are breaking the law d

per or theyso may be aware they are moving as an undocumented person but subject of coercion then they become a human trafficking victim. >> what role has the internet et placed in human trafficking, specifically the dark net and how do you counter that. >> in the sex trafficking area the internet has become the plats platsform early in the effort on after the traffic victims protection act was enacted in 2000. aex focus on sex trafficking that krd on the street or in brothetl brothels. the t platform for selling people hat th is on the internet. it's harder to track down. but the good news is the internet canning used as a method for helping people.eople there are apps and places that people can contact. it's not only that a hot line is a place you can call or e-mail but there are means for using

the internet or texting. >> mike, independence. >> hi. thank you c-span and mr. lagon for coming on. my question deals with the fact that when we say sex trafficking we include as you mentioned earlier sex workers as well as those folks who have been is t trafficked both willingly and nflate unwillingly. and is there a problem when we conflate those two? many sex workers get into the sex field because they lack in ab resources. they are veryy. poor. abject poverty. and my question is when we put those two things together, are ould we taking resources that should be diverted to the sex trafficking part of it? and putting it to the sex

workers who, although they do need help are not as acute as the sex traffic child or sex est: traffic individual.a grea >> this is a great question. and i just -- i haven't quite figured out the clear line e bad between the good selling of a fe female and bad selling of a female for sex. it includes force fraud and coerci coercion foron it to be sex trafficking. let's think about the analogy to labor trafficking. if there weren't a demand for bu very cheap labor and very cheap . products, then there wouldn't be forced labor or the worst forms of child labor.t many of the people who get into use that are wooed into it recruited into that because of poverty andd girls desperation. is it a meaningful choice for women and girls who are pulled into the sex trade and end up

being coerced? sex trafficking? i will put my reputation on the line. in fact the existence of the sex trade in which the guys who buy sex are whether they are in cam cambodia or in the united statesrom typically not punished for it. the u that's part of the problem.oblem. >> how hard is it to prosecute sex traffickers labor traffickers? >> it's hard to prosecute the traf traffickers in largefi part because we have tended around the world to rely on the testimony of a traumatized victim. a victim who is scared of the mes trafficker. sometimes have a stockholm syndrome luke their pimp their daddy has been cultivating their relationship. they don't want to turn on them. a victim-centered approach requires thinking of ways to getthroug evidence like the financial transactions of the buyer or other witnesses so you don't

rely on this traumatized person ho whost should be our first goal to onversat help. >> does this conversation help is? the spotlight put on this? the report by the state department? snen cnn is doing documentaries.i was a >> since i was a bit player as a staffer, we've moved a long way.hen peop i kind of shake my head when people talk about awareness.awar we'reen getting there on awareness. we need the action and ave enforcement. there are all these people where they have laws on the books to fight human trafficking but they aren't being implemented.gether >> cnn put this together on their website. seven ways to spot someone as being trafficked. do you recommend people alertingrport the authorities, seeing something that's happening in very the airports? >> it's very easy to jump to

conclusions that something that's not human trafficking is human trafficking. but we need to look for it. there's a campaign that the u.s. department of homeland security has been running.ggests the blue campaign that suggests that the human trafficking victim may beding blending into the background. when you go into an ethnic restaurant and see people working in the back and you ping realize they may be sleeping there, they may be a human trafficking victim. it's worth doing your best. c polaris project runs a center. they've had a record of saving people. people themss have called or d a po people who have spotted a potntial victim have called and have been able to mobilize law st: enforcement in less than an hour to get to a victim.er: maria in new jersey, independent, you're next. >> caller: good morning.

i would like your guest to comment on something that i readming that with the minors that are coming recently over three-quarters of them are male over the age of 12. and if they state they were three helped to get into the country by a coyote, they are called victims of human trafficking and they are not asked about any iminal criminal record they r might have had or gang affiliation. a lot of times if they aren't adjudicateded, they are disperse dispersed across the country maybe to join other drug gangs. what is your thought about n strengthening our border and cracking down on just accepting guest: people's word on it without investigation? >> thank you for a good to d question. there's some important things to draw from that. one, there are male human trafficking victims and male we kids. we tend tof gi think of girls. there are some. we should be careful that we tify p have a system in which we can

identify people who really are human trafficking victims. but lamar smith the republican congressman, has -- was in the n original legislation skeptical. he worried that people would get the humanitarian visa as a humanundocu trafficking victim, gaming the system when they were re near undocumented workers. we've never come near the ceiling he insisted being put in the original legislation in ing terms of human trafficking at victims. there gaming of the system. there isn't evidence there. freedom hour, we're concerned about lack of rule of louaw around the world. the problem is central america having enormous violence and corruption and that leading to people not only looking for economic opportunity in the a. united states but fleeing the violence. we need to deal with the root problem. >> freedom house what is your central goal?

>> they are about to celebrate their 75th anniversary. it was formed in 1941 to get an an rig isolationist publicht focused on the nat zee threat and prepare people to get into world war ii. formed seven weeks before pearl harbor. it has put out its own reports giving grades to cannotountries on freedom political, civil liberties press freedoms. the bulk of what we do is i working s programatically around or the world to assist civil society organizations punish ss pushing who a their governments to reform or deal with auto krats who are squeezing their voice.e on t >>he silvia, a republican you're on the air.wonder >> caller:in hello, yes. i was wondering -- can you hear me? n >> yes, we can. >> caller: i was wondering whether the nsa under the patriot act was able to help

you? >> i don't think the nsa observation can help. for freedom house not on the human trafficking issue, i n remain concerned our counterterrorism policy has become an excuse for the winnowing of civil liberties. that's another example where thean united states nids to be an exemplar in order to promote human rights around the world. they should worry about who holds the data. >> can a violation of your civil rights be a human right abuse? >> oh, yeah, absolutely. absol it's a basic view of freedom house that civil liberties not only exist here and around the world and if they are breached that's a human rights abuse. when i started freedom house in january, what portrait or picture to put up at the entrance to my office. we're focused on human rights around the world but we have a

photograph of martin luther king and john lewis as civil rights leaders convening a meetding in freedom house's headquarters. i put that up to remind us of moveme the long road from slavery to the civil rights movement to today human rights as we work internationally. >> killeen, tex aindependent, : good morning. >> caller: good morning. i wanted to ask your guest what his organization's stance is on legalizing prostitution.al prost it's never going to be eradicated. it's the oldest profession in fessio the world. so that's it can be regulated ulated and there can be some rights dustry given to the sex industry workers. >> we don't have an but i institutional perspective, but i've been long on the record since i game ambassador for

human trafficking in may of 2007 that i am not for the legalization of prostitution. but let me be very clear. i'm in favor of a system that they used in the nordic states where you don't punish the person who is in the sex regul industry. that's wrong. you should punishar the trafficker or a regular pimp, but you need who a to punish the people who are buying the sex. if you do not hold to account the source of the demand you'll never deal with the problem. i don't think you should punish the women and girls in the sex industry and sometimes the males in the sex industry, but i think -- i'm not personally in favor of legalizing prostitution. >> a lot of questions about the sex trafficking part.let' let's talk about the labor. the human trafficking there. how big of an issue is this?

how hard is that to prosecute?y diff >> it's very difficult to ou loo prosecute. if you look at the number of prosec prosecutions around the world, there are many more prosecutions in the sex trafficking area. people are littlepolitically motivated. they haven't devoted the resources to it. devot it has been harder for american law enforcement to get their ir arms around those prosecutions they've begin to make progress. one of the contributions during the time i was human trafficking ambassador was beginning to track the prosecutions and convictions for sex trafficking versus labor trafficking around the world. it is striking that in the world. entire time since we started introducing that -- those more statistics in 2008, there's never been more than 20% of the prosecutions for human r area trafficking being in the labor area around the world. there are many more victims of human trafficking for labor than

for sex around the world.fact f here's a basic fact for your viewers to take away. both sex trafficking and labor . trafficking are very important. there are many more labor trafficking vmgs ingking victims. es perhaps three-quarters of the victims around the world are actually labor trafficking victims. but more money is made on the sex backs of those who are in the if t sex trafficking industry. if this is about changing the b yairb ratiyoo of profits to risk of being punished, you have to look at that. if you look at cambodia or thailand you see both problems.ex more labor trafficking and more money made for sex trafficking. >> clearwater, florida, audrey a republican. clear good morning.audr welcome to the conversation. >> caller: good morning.one nu i was given this telephone number because i could tell you

have i am against voting for jeb come bush. i'm aioti republican. i come from a very patriotic background, and i would not choose to vote for jeb bush because he has decided to not pend m onlyan get his education but to spend many of his business years in -- living in mexico and in caracas, venezuela. >> what does that have to do with human trafficking? >> caller: i. was not calling about that. and >> then i'm going to move on. i'm talking with mark lagon. an expert on this who served as ambassador from 2007 to 2009 at the state department. we'll move on to james in chattanooga, tennessee. >> caller: hi how are you. >> good morning. >> caller: well i think it's important to have jobs ready for people when they do turn up.gram

we have good programs at chattanooga state where people can learn about technical skills and get a certificate and get on the roadca towards getting a career after they're found.gest but i think the biggest questionhis i would have for the gentleman is, isn't this trafficking related to the actual drug -- know, the t drug pushing? you know that goes everywhere.guest: the drugs are being sold everywhere? >> it's a good question. different forms of transnational transnational -- areat commingled.als loo what happens is the ha international criminals look for which thing is easier to do and do has higher profit and is less looikly to be caught. we've seen evidence documented that there's been a shift from

solely focusing on drug u.s trafficking. there's another dimension worth thinking about including here in in the united states. the degree to which drugs are involved in keeping kids and women docile and they actually sort of self-medicate because of the trauma of the violence and 15 customers a day. >> mark lagon, appreciate your time this morning. go to freedomhouse.org for more information. >> thanks for having me on. on the next "washington journal," stephen dinan of the kw washington times" talks about a recent article on the 114th congress that examined congressional gridlock. and then myron ebell and jeremy symons look at the obama administration's clean power

plant which calls for a 30% reduction in greenhouse emissions. plus your facebook comments and tweets live on c-span. and now back to "washington journal" for a look at president obama's announcement of new rules that would limit power plant carbon emissions. this is 40 minutes.autz, >> joining us is jason plautz lk abo with nationalut journey to talk ation. about president obama's new climate change regulation. what did the president announce on monday? >> yesterday he announced -- plants finalized the first carbon pollution standards for power plants. the total 8 standards will cut 870 million tons of carbon pollution by 2013. that's ath 32% cut compared to

2005 levels.going it's set up to transform the power sector. it's going to encourage more enti renewables, discouraging some coal and really just changing the energy mix entirely. >> what does it mean for states?y can >> each state gets their individual goal. they canan p do that by producing more renewables putting in energy efficiency standards. there are a whole suite of doing options available. each state will have to at al determine the best path for them. >> which states are looking at doing more and which are saying we're not going to do that at all. >> we've seen a lot of states saw we're not going to do xas anything at all. oklahoma indiana and texas have said they'll not comply or t considering not complying. we saw mitch mcconnell encouraging governors not to

comply with the plan.ther s it'sta not legally sound. he'd like them to opt out. you have other states who are farther along. meeting these goals.ional states in the northeast who are part of the regional gas initiative are pretty well equipped to comply. >> what's been the reaction from lawmakers in washington as well as those that are running in 2016? >> it's about what you'd expect to see. democrats who are very supportive of this plan want to see it go forward and then republicans on the other side who don't want to see this go elect forward. they seeri this as overreach. it's going to raise electricity produces. mcmcconnell has urged covers not to comply. he and john boehner were talking about plans to stop the plan. whether that's through spending bills. the congressional review act.nviron

and the senate environment and dnesda public works committeey is going to mark up a bill that would allow states to opt out. >> we'll look at what the sterda majority leader had to say the yesterday on the senate floor. >> projected to cost literally billions. they threaten to ship good middle class jobs overseas and in rel make it harder to maintain reliable sources of energy to ills f meet demand. they'll likely result in higher g elec energy bills fortr those who can least afford them. raising electricity rates by double digits for people that i represent. all of this, mr. president, and for what? for what?t not only will these massive regulations fail to meaningfully affect the global climate but h they could end up harming the environment boo outy outsourcing

energy production. they may also be illegal. that's why i wrote the governors suggesting they take a ting t responsible wait and see he approach andessa allow the courts to weigh in before subjecting their citizens to such unnecessary pain. >> when will the president's rules go into effect? >> states will have to start complying in 2022, which is a two-year delay. in they have to start submitting of 20 their plans in fall of 2016 but they can get a two-year so co extension. >> 2022, whoever is the next president. can they with the stroke of a has a pen gelat rid of this? >> certainly the next president has a large role to play in as said umplementing and seeing that this rule moves forward. hillary clinton has said she'll she woul uphold the plans.

in the first piece of her energy agenda she'd like to increase lley h the roleav of renewables. side, and mart on o'malley also said he'd keep it in place. i don't think we've seen any hould republican candidate say anything nice about this rule. should a republican take the white house we can see them simply not implement the rule. and we can expect to see this move through the court system. should a court say this rule has to be rewritten it's up to that administration to rewrite it thent of way they see fit.sociat >> hal quinn writing the opposing view in "usa today" s saying this epa plan offers all pain no gain. states face tougher targets for burden replacing affordable energy with more costly energy. it will lead to less reliable ustrie

electric sgrid.: how is industry -- how are the different industries responding? >> as you said the national natio mining association not pleased with thus. yesterday they asked the epa to put a stay on the rule.r of that was day one. we've seen fossil fuel groups, coal groups actualities in joint lawsuits to try to stop the rule before it was in final state. that court case had laurence tribe petitioning on behalf of the industry. industry groups are not surprisingly going to try to stop this rule. they see this as reducing the use of fossil rule going forward. >> and the view of the "usa today" editorial board. obama's power plant plan helps protect the planet. if the plan survives legal and political salt a big if carbon that if dioxide will be 32% lower in l be 32% 2030 than in 2005. will all this solve the climate

change problem? power plants are the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions. the akadministration's plan would take care of about one-thurd or about one-ninth of domestic emissions. >> we've already seen the president take a number of stepswas fuel on climate change. one of the largest and overlooked steps was fuel economy standards for light dutyfforts t cars and heavy duty trucks. also a number of efforts to promote clean energy energy efficiency. the president set an overall goal of reducing emissions by 2025. that was part of the agreement ho with china. get t it's been a very large and vast agenda. >> riley is up first. georgetown, texas. you are on the air. what are your thoughts on the president's epa rule.

>> caller: the ignorance of the democratic and also shown by th's reporter here on carbon dioxide. the statement shows it all in that carbon pollution would o reduce as attached. now, every person breathes out more concentrated cot out. that's how we live. it's about life on earth, and c 02 is the emission transfer of life giving carbon to the plants, we eat the plants, and we live.for so that's life on earth. in for someone to come along and dictate, which obama has done,

that c02 is a pollutant and takes action, long before the talk of al gore, no problem, now there's action to double cost offees. electricity, to increase 's transportation, to affect people's standard of living. >> let's take the point. is the what's the impact of this on consumers potentially? >> we could see energy bills go up. the ouldepa said overall this will it reduce energy bills in the long term by bringing on -- states can bring on more energy nsumers. efficiency, using less energy, in that that will help consumers. >> the white house's website, save the average american family nearly $85 a year on energy homes bills in 2030. save enough energy to power 30 million homes in 2030 and save t di consumers $155 billion from 2020 to 2030. do people disagree, what do they

say? >> of course they are. they say it raises rates and in the short term as these changes happen, it's hard to know what will happen. it's not like consumers' bills ho drop or rise tomorrow based on the standard. >> the president, though yesterday at the white house in the afternoon warned against ' inaction on this issue. here's what he had to say. >> most of the issues that i issues deal with, and i deal with some tough issues that cross my desk, with by definition, i don't deal with issues if they are easy to solve because somebody else already solved them. some of them are grim. are fru some of them are heart breaking. some of them are hard.l with a some of them are frustrating. most of the time, the issues we deal with are ones that are of plu temporarily boung d and can anticipate things getting better if we just plug away at it.

even incrementally. this is one of those rare issues, because of its magnitude, because of its scope that if we don't get it right we may not be able to reverse and we may not be able to adapt clim sufficiently. there is suchoh ast thing as being too late when it comes to white climate change. >> president obama at the white house yesterday making an ll of announcement about this epa rule. that's the discussion with all of you this morning. we go to eric next in maryland an independent.taking good morning m eric. >> caller: yes, good morning. thank you for taking my call. i believe that the intention of the president is good it's a very, very nice intention, but it's note realistic either. it's completely unrealistic

because the problem with carbon emission and all this pollution is that pollution does not have any bother. you cannot enforce pollution here in america when you have china, india, and when you have the developing other countries who are getting in there right amer now, so what if we are complying here in america and china is notrable compliant, not only we have an advantage in term of production but life is miserable for us alread and now the electricity going up because even already the bills we have now are too high, so a justs imagine now going green as the president is saying so l unless they have everybody on big po the table, and when i say everybody, i sayag all the big nations, sitting down, and everybody agree to cutting effectively, because there's one

thing to pledge and another to implement it. i don't think it's a good idea.at point thank you very much.om a >> all right, eric.e whit >> that's a great point and h something heard from a number of critics. the white house has tried tnao make efforts. they reached a deal with china in november last month reached another deal on renewable energy with brazil and we'll see the in par u.s. really tryis to take a leadership role as the united nations meets in paris in december to try to strike a deal. this plan alone and u.s. action alone will not solve climate change. the u.s. is trying to show by taking these big steps other countries can follow along and everybody can work together. host: and these steps, how big are they compared to other countries? guest: it's hard to say. we haven't seen

i think the u.s. has said that what they are doing is larger. we obviously, saw china take significant steps reaching a deal in november as well. >> all right. dan in california, a republican, mckinleyville? >> caller: yes, it is. thank you, c-span, you do great service. you know, i'm 67 years old. i remember back in the 1960s when i was attending college and a stanford wrote a book called "the population bomb" all the range in the scientific and academic communities at the time and in his book and lek chufr tures, he warned of the catastrophic consequences in store for we humans by no later than the turn of the century if we did not take immediate steps to check our population growth. he predicted such dire

consequences as massfamines, severe energy shortages lower standards of living. turn of the century came and gone, and none of these disasters happened. as a matter of fact, energy production never higher than today, and standards of living have never been higher than today, particularly in the world's most populated countries, china and india, and so the academic and scientific communities have now moved on to a new cause which is climate change. even though our climates -- our planet climate history is repeated ice aged followed by periods of global warming what do these people think caused the glaciers to melt after the iej age? too many fires? the combustion engine was not invented yet. >> we got the point.

there is this body of people in this country and others that do not believe what the scientists are saying that do not believe that there is climate change or global warming, whatever. >> certainly. we saw the president go rather aggressively against them yesterday. we heard he said that this is the last chance we have to take action. you know the overwhelming majority of scientists agree climate change is happening. we are already seeing its effects. we have 14 of the 15 hottest years on records. we're in the last 15 years so, you know in setting the standards, they are trying to solve the problem that scientists say is in front of us. >> what influence do you think that the pope will have when he makes the visit in september, likely to be brought up when he talks before both chambers of congress and meets with the president? >> absolutely. the pope who is cyclical on

climate change we have already seen traeemendous impact on that, brought up a number of times, and, yes, it is certainly something that he's going to bring up in prompt of both chambers, could make leaders uncomfortable, john boehner who is a catholic does not agree with the position. we've seen a number of prominent catholic republicans saying it's not an issue for the pope to take on but it's certainly something to be brought up before congress and definitely at the white house. >> and jodi on twitter says this is the first generation to know enough to know climate change is reality. the next generation must be the ones to address it. looking at twitter. look at what some of the lawmakers and others have been saying about the debate. speaker of the house tweeting it's an expensive arrogant insult to americans who struggle to make ends meet, and you have the u.s. chamber saying the epa is stretching its authority beyond recognition, and also steve danes, republican, saying

the obama administration's war on american energy is a war on american families and a war on american jobs, and also senator maria cantwell from washington state, the clean power plan puts us on an unrealistic pathway to reduce more. she's a democrat. and democrat from massachusetts, clean power plant will grow the economy, protect public health from dangerous carbon pollution and act on climate, he says. senator patrick leahy serves as a judiciary committee member, 14 of the 15 of the hottest years, thank you to the president for common sense action on climate change. the ad min straiter tweeted this out to midler. thank you for the support, you are the queen air beneath my wings. most exciting thing to happen in years, president obama's unveil

unveiled tougher climate plan with his legacy in mind. reaction on twipttter for you. back to the calls. hi anthony. >> caller: hi, thank you for the call. >> you bet. >> i have to preface my call. i'm working on my ph.d. mechanical engineering, and what's lacking in the past where nuclear power is concerned. of all the clean energy we have out there, it's the most reliable and high energy density fuel. what part does the president see the nuclear energy plan within the economy? thank you. >> as i said, every state has its own pathway to meet its goals. the nuclear industry was not pleased with how it was treated under the rule, saying they were not doing enough for plants under construction and rules would discourage future

production. they have now plans that are under construction counts towards the final goal, not the initial target. industry says that will help encourage more states to put plans under construction. >> dan, republican hi there. >> caller: hi, there. i have a comment and question. my comment is i believe we should go after the countries that are the biggest violators to start with. more government control in the united states is something we don't need. my question is for jason. do you think that nuclear power plants is the way to go, but the amount of waste generated from the nuclear power plants, where are we going to store this stuff? since it's so radio active for so many years, the build up of it and possibility of a serious accident in a nuclear power plant one of these days could just wipe out where people live. i mean, what's the bigger

problem? i think they're overlooking that. what do you think we should do? >> that's, obviously, a may squlor concern with nuclear power, and that's why we've seen it be such a controversial issue, the waste issue, the safety issue. it's all something that the industry and government has to contend with. >> what does this mean for sources of energy that are dominating current streams as the wall street journal from yesterday. these are the sources of u.s. electricity and generation electricity generation and millions of megawatts per hours. look at where the power was coming back, coming from in 2005, it's changed in 2015, most notably, natural gas making up a larger portion than it did in 2005. coal is still on top, but natural gas splits where we got -- splitting it with coal compared to 2005. >> right. that's, obviously, the biggest change in the energy sector since 2005.

the shale boom really brought natural gas into the mix. that was a concern for some people in the initial proposal. they said this is going to bring too much natural gas online burns cleaner than coal but not as clean as wind, soylar, and others. the epa says that natural gas, rather than a rise by 2030 under the rule it's expected to remain more or less dplat compared to a business as usual scenario scenario. >> how is that? what are they doing to ensure that -- because coal under this scenario is relied on less and natural gas does not take over. >> they put more in place to encourage wind and solar. that's going to take up a larger share. there's a new incentive program for states that bring wind and sewolar online before the rules take place in 2022. they can get pollution credits that can then be used as part of a trading mechanism to encourage

states. >> will we see a cap and trade program, and how will that work? will it just be within a state or something to cross state lines? >> that's a great question. the rule does encourage cap and trade, and actually, in trusting line, says a carbon fee or tax could be used. we don't know exactly what that's going to look like. there is as i said the regional greenhouse gas initiative in the northeast set up a cap and trade program. other states considered this as an option. i think as they start to write their implementation plans we'll see how it takes effect, whether it's simple states banding together, states set up a mechanism where utilityies and power generators trade credits. it remains to be seen how that's going to come online. >> our guest this morning with the national journal energy and

environment correspondent talking about what the president had to say yesterday on the new epa rule getting your questions and comments, chris in raleigh, north carolina, a democrat you're next. >> caller: yeah. they were talking about -- a republican caller talked about government control and we don't need it, but the problem is that we don't have a democracy anymore, but an ag gar ki and the people who have their hands on the energy production, they don't want to see change. we have unbelievable potential to solar, and this thing's a concluded fact. we don't have -- the government is supposed to be the people so little people don't have a voice, and it's obvious to everybody that this exists, drowned out, and republicans are basically an insane party that do not want to believe the facts. it's -- my -- it's going to take

miami and the east coast to go underwater until these people wake up. you know, it's just -- incredulous this has gone on for so long that the people are worried about jobs and we could just ship jobs to infrastructure installing solar panels. the potential is unbelievable for this. it would change the whole economy, but they don't want the economy to change. the koch brothers, done with citizens united ruling, and until that's reversed, money out of politics, we do not have a democracy, and the people's will can't be done. >> chris, talk about the players in the debate. who is on the side of opposing? what groups? what the president wants to do? who is in support of him? >> well, i think we are largely seeing the fossil fuel industry against him and congressional republicans as well as 14 states coming together to sue the epa over the rules. that was against the proposed

rules. it was rejected by the courts because the rule had not been beenizedbeen finalized. on the other side, there's governors, congressional democrats coming out in support. it'll be interesting to see how it plays out on capitol hill. the house already passed a bill that would allow states to opt out. the senate has not been able to move on that and they are going to see democrats really stand together, try to recruit moderates from the other side to protect the rules. >> will environmental groups put pressure on these moderate democrats, independents, and possibly republicans up in 2016? >> oh, certainly, there's a lot of pressure on them. i wrote this morning somebody like kelly ayott in the senate has expressed concerns about climate change in the past. we're going to see environmental groups likely put pressure on her up for re-election in 2016. they want to see her not just talk about climate change, but vote to protect these rules. >> willis, texas rob,

independent caller good morning. >> caller: hello thank you. actually, a lot of carbon dioxide is produced to make solar panels because to purr my the silicon, 900 degrees f. they actually have a very high carbon foot print, and that needs to be told honestly with the megabucks behind them, so don't call them low carbon. the aluminum frames need a lot of electricity to make them so don't say that they are low carbon either. electricity was produced by anything other than some hydro or whatever. also, turning 40% of the corn into food when, like 28 million people a year are malnutritioned is a major factor in their deaths from world health

organizations numbers. my big complaint but i might callously say methane is emitted from decomposing bodies, but what's an acceptable body count? >> leave it there and talk about solar panels the point about them emitting carbon emissions, there is you know some impact on the environment by alternative energy. >> i'm not an expert on manufacturing of solar panels. the point comes in power generation where opposed to burning coal or natural gas, the solar panels are not emitting anything. >> right. moving on to eric in deer park, new york. democrat. >> caller: yes. it should be required viewing for the movie called "cool it," a documentary by a danish professor, environmentalist, who believes in climate change.

he has all the solutions, and none of it is presented here. if everyone was required viewing, we'd have solutions. the movie came out in 2010. watch it. take notes. present it to everyone to the congress, president, and whether you believe in climate change or not, it's cost benefit analysis solutions and what the president proposes does not work according to the movie. >> phil, florida, a republican, hi phil. >> caller: hey, how are you doing? thank you for the forum. >> good morning. >> caller: first thing, i want to talk about the irony of why iran called a done deal by senator john kerry, can have nuclear cape ability saying it's for energy when they live in a

desert desert. they have abundant sun for solar. they have wind. they could have windmills, but they want nuclear. talk about that irony and i want to say that i think that this whole thing about saying that, well, what is the rest of the world going to think with the done deal, and we kaemtdcan't walk away now. well we need a better deal. i think the rest of the world thinks that too. thank you. >> jason? >> >>. >> it's up to each country. he was talking about the nuclear deal with iran. it's up to the country. we're going to see as we have seen, the u.s. try to use bilateral talks or international talks to put pressure on other countries. we saw this with india president obama was over there trying to encourage them to get more solar.

in the lead up talks in paris, prauchlmentes it legacy issue for him. he has to put pressure on other countries to reach a conclusion in paris. >> what's the epa in this administration done other than what we saw yesterday. what other facts did the administration take up until now to shape the president's climate change agenda? >> absolutely. well, they took a number of steps. as i mentioned there were fuel economy standards that were going to double the fuel economy. they've taken action on heavy trucks as well. we saw them there's a number of steps, and solar wind, and really trying to change the energy mix so that it emits less

pollution. >> and ed in danville, virginia independent, you're next. go ahead. >> caller: i want to remind this person year, mr. jason, about climate change was here before this. in the 60s, global warming then an ice age. there's a little thing on the internet, temperature sensors noaa, go and look at the temperature sensors they use to measure temperature to see if the climate's changing, and they were next to heat sources smokestacks, airport runways, and these sensors were supposed to be out in plane view not to be influenced by surrounding conditions, and one last thing, if climate change is a big deal please explain to me why obama dplies dplie flies all over the country and world in the dirtiest aircraft there is putting out all this

pollution, but he doesn't care about that but only us little people having to do without. >> okay, ed in danville, virginia. what does it mean for someone's pocketbook? i mean, do we know yet on a monthly basis? you know, when people look at the utility bill are they going to see a big difference? >> well, we don't know. as we said it's going to take a long time for it to play out, and states look at it in different ways. we see based on the energy mix in the state, your utility bill might be different based on energy use. your utility bill is different. varies consumer to consumer, but as you said earlier, the white house has said this will save consumers on their industry bills in the long term. >> way cross, georgia, louis republican. >> caller: yes, ma'am i think that electrical grids are very

insufficient, and they have to be defined areas how we use electricity. first of all we lose half our energy through transmission. it's very inefficient. we're also susceptible to weather events and cyber security. we need to be looking at alternative other forms like pine tree resin to manufacture steam. it's flammable. planting long leaf pine trees, and you get two components with that. you get c02, sequesteration from the tree. you also get pine cones. you can manipulate to grow cones by attacking it. >> okay. all right. let's take the point about the electric grid.

>> there's a number of steps. both the house and energy and commerce committee and natural resources committee have each moved what they call comprehensive energy bills that would look at grid reliability. we also saw in the rule the epa set up what they call a safety valve where, if there is some reliability concern, there are allowances in there that will just give it a little more flexibility. dave said they do not anticipate needing to use that, but, again, it is there just in case. >> legislation likely to move on this and get a vote in the house and senate? >> on the comprehensive bills? >> about the electric grids specifically. >> it's been a priority. we saw the energy natural resource committee in the senate pass their bill to bipartisan bill, so that move the out of committee and the chairman would

like to bring it to the floor. in the house, it's just out of subcommittee. people want to see the bill go further, worked on over the recess recess, back in the fall, and then, who knows. >> what about yesterday in the epa? >> we'll see on a number of different fronts fronts. states will sit down, talk amongst themselves and each other about what they do. how did they comply with the plan? what's the best some of the states will opt out. we'll see them look at what options are available for them. the epa said that if a state optings out, they have a federal plan to implement on that state as well as federal plans that state can use and move through

the courts. there was a lawsuit against the proposed rule. i don't think it's long before there's several lawsuits before the rule. >> all right. go to nationaljournal.com, energy and environment kor responsibility for them. thank you for the time this morning. >> thank you. on the next "washington journal," steven dinan of the "washington times" talks about a recent article on the first six months of the 114th congress examing a congressional gridlock and myron ebell and jermy symons looks at the clean power plan calling for 30% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from power plants, and your phone calls, comments and tweets. live at 7:00 a.m. eastern tonon c-span.

>> hear testimony from under secretary of state wendy sherman, the lead negotiator for the u.s. see comments live at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span 3, and after that, more about iran with replarks from palm and american university in washington speaking about the nuclear agreement as he continues to argue for congressional and public support on the deal. the president begins live at 11:00 eastern on c-span. we'll feature programming weeknights on c-span2 beginning at 8:00 eastern, and at the end of the summer, two booktv special programs, september 5th live from the nation's capital for the book festival followed by our in-depth program at the

american enterprise institute. booktv on c-span2. television for serious readers. now testimony from health and human services secretary on her department's policy priorities. she spoke last week in front of the house education and work force committee for a little more than two hours. >> good morning, secretary. >> good morning. >> thank you for joining us to review the policies before us. as is often the case when a cabinet secretary appears before the committee. we have a lot of ground to cover in a short period of time. that is especially true for a department as big, powerful, and costly as the department of health and human services. at the end of the current fiscal

year, hhs is expected to spend nearly $1 trillion administering numerous programming affecting americans like child care health care and early childhood development. in a time where families are squeezed by a week economy, there's a responsibility to make sure we operate efficiently and effectively. it is the responsibility we take seriously which is why this hearing is important and why we intend to raise a number of key issues. for example, learning about the changes to the child care and development block program. last year, the committee championed reforms to the program to strengthen health and safety protections, help the parents, and improve quality of care. this helped countless moms and dads provide for the families, and hope the department is on track to implement changes quickly in line with congressional intent. another vital program for many low income families is head start. earlier this year, the committee outlined a number of key

principles were strengthening the program like reducing regulatory burdens and promoting local innovation and discussion with parents. there was feedback to turn it into a legislative proposal. it was in the midst of the effort to reform the law that the department decided to launch a regulatory restructuring to the program. some of the department's proposed changes help i'll prove the program, but the sheer cost and scope raises concerns and led to some uncertainty among providers who serve the vulnerable children. strengthening the laws is a better approach than those of a regulatory fiat and urge the administration to join us in the effort. these two areas alone fill up our time this morning and have not mentioned services provided under the well form reform act, and as you expect on the minds of most members are the challenges the countries continues to face because of the president's health care law. fames, workers, employers learn

more and more about the harmful consequences of the law. for example, nations have access to fewer doctors, controlled cost estimated that insurance plans on the health care exchanges have 34% fewer providers than nonexchange plans including 32% primary care doctors and 42% fewer oncologist oncologists and plagued by abuse. a nonpartisan accountability office used fake identities to enroll 12 individuals in the subsidized coverage on health care exchange. this month, jao announced 11 of the 12 fake individuals are enrolled and receiving taxpayer subsidies, and more than 7 million individuals paid a penalty for not purchasing government approved health insurance, 25 % more than the administration expected under the worst case scenario. according to the associated press, 4.7 million individuals notifyied their plans were