b but i really -- you know, i've been 19 years in the congress, 19 years on the military committee, number two for the democrats on the military committee now. 17 of those 19 years. being on the subcommittee that does nuclear warfare, etcetera, doing special forces. i was the chair woman for special forces, subcommittee, etcetera. and i know your expertise is not in the military. i really want to get to the area where i do believe i have extreme expertise in and i want to elicit from you some information that we can use. >> sure. >> so i won't argue with you about what's going on with the military. i definitely have a different vice president. but i want to talk to you about the funding that the federal government and the system in

which we try to butress what our local law enforcement are doing. i mentioned in my opening statements that i'm very concerned when i see however it is we're packaging from the federal government into our local law enforcement the funds and the fact that they're significantly decreasing over time and more importantly the lack of predictability as to what those funds will flow, the lack of funds. can you talk about having overseen this city and in particular during the times of preparedness for your first responders what that does to you and what you would see as more useful from a budding perspective from the federal government? >> well, when i was the mayor, i

supported the crime bill. and the crime bill was a great bargain between conservatives and liberals. and it included social programs that a lot of conservatives disagreed with and it included the death penalty and funding, tremendous funding for local police that some liberals disagreed with and somehow under president clinton's leadership he put together a group, bipartisan group of mayors that included me and ed rendell, the democratic mayor of philadelphia, the republican mayor of los angeles and the democratic mayor of st. paul and from that, we received money for me to hire considerably more policemen.

dealing with september 11, it helped us certainly in the massive reduction in crime which by the time i left was 65% reduction in homicide. but on september 11, it left us with a large enough police department, although we did need help from our cities that we were able to handle it and deal with it. but he ever year, the funding was in doubt. we tried to management our way through it. i think we did. but you're absolutely correct, the funding should be -- we should know what it is. we should be able to plan on it for a five or teb-year period.

terrorism strategy, as the chairman said, this is a long war. this requires ten years of planning, 20 years of planning and, therefore, whatever funding congress is going to provide and the federal government should be consistent and as a mayor, which i no longer am, but if i was or even as a police commissioner or fire commissioner or head of emergency services, you should have a sense of what the funding is going to be four and five years from now. the mayor of new york city is required to produce a budget for four years, which i think is very, very smart. i thought it was one of the great things that came out of the fiscal crisis of new york city. it removes a lot of one shots and tricks because i was to show if i reduce now or increase now, what's going to happen for years

from now? and we can't factor the federal government in. and i'll make one final pra parochial point on behind of my city. my city contributes considerably more to the federal government than the federal government contributes to the city. we are a donor city and a donor state, meaning we give you much more money in tax revenues than we get back in benefit. and i'm including all the benefits from medicare, medicaid and the poor. and senator moynihan used to publish that report every year and he and i would hold a press conference to show that new york city was being short changed by $7 billion or $8 billion, the state by about $12 billion. so we don't come here as supplicants. we come here as contributors. we're giving you more money than you give back, so at least give

it back to us in a consistent way. >> mr. mayor, thank you for than. i happen to represent orange county, council, and we're also a toner county. believe me. >> i know you are. maybe by even more because you've become larger and my numbers are like 13, 14 years old. >> so i understand and my people understand in particular the fact that we are community givers in a sense because we do pay more in taxes than we've ever receive back in that area. let me indulge, if you will, just one more question, mr. chairman. this question is about after the boston marathon bombings, the harvard kennedy school released a plan action support writ identified the need for improved guidance regarding the role of political leaders and emergency managers during disaster response and how those entities ought to coordinate. so going back, again, to your

mayorship -- and i know -- the reason i ask you, not because i don't think you're doing important things today, but that was a very specific time where you had, you know, the largest ever known disaster on our homelands. but i know since then, you've been working with mayores and other cities so ensure that they are ready and that things are going well in case there should has been to be a path that we don't stop in the planning stages. so my question to you is, can you describe your role in the incident command structure when you were here in new york, especially on that 9/11 day, and what advice you would give other mayors and to us with respect to emergency managers and first responders during a disaster of that type. what lesson can we bring away from that, given your experience? >> well, first of all, new york

city is very fortunately in that it really isn't a city, it's a confederation of counties. we're five counties until the state of new york. in most cases, for example, in mistake, or in los angeles, the city is an entity within a much larger county. or let's take boston. so when i had a deal with september 11, or the 30 or 40 or crises i had to deal with of a lesser scale, but since we have so many crises, our police, our firefighters, our emergency people are used to crisis. we have one entity. in boston, the report that you're dealing with is having to

coordinate seven, eight, nine, ten, 12, 15 different police departments, as many different fire departments, some of whom are volunteer fire departments. maybe an emergency services unit, maybe not. so the job of coordination is much harder outside new york because of the -- because new york is so big and because it is one entity. that doesn't mean we didn't have tremendous problems. of coordination. but you can imagine that you must ply those problems by ten or 20 when it's seven or eight or nine different police departments that have to work together. governor pataki and i made a decision shortly after the attack. it was, i would say, 40 minutes. i was trapped in a building for

20 minutes. when i got out, i called the governor and the governor and i decided to put our governments together. and we set up a headquarters first at the police academy and then on the peer because the police academy turned out to be too small. and we made all our decisions together. i would have a staff meeting every morning, he was, as governor. we had our staff meeting together. and we did that for 2 and a half months and we did that because we realized that, first of all, a lot of bickering goes on between staffs that do not go on between principal. second, there's a tremendous amount of bureaucracy in getting anything done. so if i had my commissioner and he had his commissioner and they were having a fight, we could resolve it right there and get et done and move it forward. so my recommendation is you've

got to do exercises. i am a big believer in relentless preparation. we had had numerous exercises in new york. at one point, we did an exercise with the federal government pretending that there was a saran gas attack right here at the world trade center. we brought in all the federal and local people to see if they could work together and we found out we knew very little about saran gas and anthrax and then we learned a lot about it. we did a mock plane crash on the border of new york city and nassau county. to see how they would work together and to make sure they knew thou work together if in case there was a plane crash at

kennedy airport which borders right on the jennings of nassau county. we did tabletop exercises like a possible saran gas attack at a knicks game, how would you evacuate? so one of the things, among many, that i urge and probably the most important is a tremendous amount of preparation. go through the incident before it happens so that whit happens you're not going through it for the first time. and that is how i distinguish, let's say, the response to september 11. where the city, the state and the federal government, which included fema, by the way, by that afternoon. we're sitting at the samt taim table and then the mistakes that were made in katrina where the governor stayed in the capital and the mayor stayed in the city

and fema stayed, well, somewhere. >> and the sheriff stayed on the bridge, as a result. >> yes. >> thank you very much, mayor. i'm really blessed to represent an area where we have xhushl assistance. so my city oefs police and emergency -- >> but they have to work at that. >> and then under our sheriff we fall under the l.a. sheriff if it should be larger. and i think one of the things we could do effectively is maybe look at funding more of these exercises because people really need to go through them. >> i know in boston it helped out tremendously. the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. king. >> thank you, mr. chairman. rudy, it's great you have to here today. i want to thank the port authority police for the great job that they do and acknowledge my friend and neighbor, john ryan, who is the chief of the department. good to see you, john. i'd like to comment on a few things that have been said.

as far as the homeland security funding, we could always use more and there were some rough years. in the last several years, it has stabilized and i comment secretary johnson for taking a number of those cities off the list because the money should be to those cities that are startinged. so this is a democratic secretary, i want to thank you for making the tough decisions and marrowing it down to the cities that do need the money. and i have to say new york's funding over the last three years has been consistent. when president obama came in, he did try to cut and security the cities program but we worked with him and that has been stabilized. i would say while there's always problems and we could always use more funding, the fact is over the last several years, new york has, i think, been treated fairley. i do think the department of homeland security has done a much better job on that. as far as the issue of the nypd, no one has done a better job to stop terrorism in this country. i know the "new york times" is

quoted as saying the nypd spies, i would rely on the "new york times" absolutely nothing and what they quote spying, i quote good police surveillance. and you don't have to believe me, but john brennen, when he was president obama's security adviser, he said the nypd is the model for the entire country as far as combatting islamic terrorism. and if we're talking about profiling, whatever you want to term it, ethnic sensitivities, rudy, you're italian american. i'm irish american. i can tell when you tell fbi was going after the westies, they hit every irish bar on the west side of manhattan. that's where they were. no one was going to harlem. that was in the irish neighborhoods. these are deadly enemies we face. the fact is, under mayor bloomberg, 16 plots against new

york city in 12 years were stopped. and what happens over the fourth of july with bill bratton did as far as stopping the threats against new york, the arrests were made here in new york were just -- again, if they had not been made, sweld va whole different client today. we came close to being attacked over the fourth of july by isis. rudy, you and i went to many funerals after 9/11, too many. and we saw all of the cops killed, the firefighters were killed, port authority cops were killed. but people are still dying. cops and firefighters are still dying as a result of the illnesses that they incurred. i think the fire department alone lost like 111 firefighters have died since 9/11 from 9/11 related health illnesses. so i would ask you, again, as a former mayor who did a

phenomenal job, on september 11th and those weeks afterwards where you basically held the entire country together, the important, if you can speak of extending, the fundinging will end next year and there are thousands and thousands of people from all over the country, fire fight erts, cops who came to volunteer and 429 congressional districts have people. the importance of that being extended and the suffering those people are going through. >> first of all, it's critical importance. it's a matter of duty that we owe to these people. i can tell you as the mayor at the time and going through the trauma and shock of september 11th, to have people come here from all over the country to help us was enormously important for two reasons. first of all, even though new york city has the largest police department, the largest fire department, the largest

emergency services components, significant presence of sdi and everything else, this attack was beyond our capacity. when i talked to governor pataki on the phone shortly after getting out of the building i was trapped in, the governor thought i had died. and i said thank god, we thought you were lost. and he said, mayor, i know you don't like this, but i've prepositioned the national guard and i've put them on randall's island. now, why he said that was i always resisted the national guard in new york city for any kind of civil dis-teschance. because, number one, i was quite confident my police department could handle it and number two, i don't like putting it national guard in a law enforcement situation because there are

differences that they're not trained for and i don't want to see them getting in trouble doing something that a cop would know you can't do. when he said that, i had a totally different reaction, though. i said thank you for getting the national guard and if you can get ten more of them, i need them. september 11 was way beyond new york city. so i needed all the help that i could get. mayor daily from chicago sent my police officers and firefighters. governor brush from florida sent me state police officers. i got help from maryland, i got help from indiana, i got help from every part of the country. and, number one, we needed the help. and number two, we needed the emotional support. even more than the help. we needed the feeling that we weren't alone, that we were being supported by the rest of

the country. think of it as the loss of a loved one. your first feeling is that you're all alone. and then you have a wake or a gathering and people come and hug you and squeeze you and now you realize you're not alone in your trauma. well, the presence of all those people that came here was enormously important. many of them sacrificed their health to do that. i knew from the moment that that started this would be an enormously sdrus operation and was very worried that people would die almost saw a firefighter have his head decapitated by a crane that swung around and he was tackled by another firefighter who saved his life. so these people -- look, these illnesses we don't understand. the simple fact is this never happened to us before, so at the

time that it was happening, and to this day, we're doing the best we can to try to figure out what the damage is, physical and psychological. and i happen people that were suffering from ptsd as a result of september 11. it's horrible to see, but they are. and that is not going to stop tomorrow. that's going to go on next year and the year after and the year after. so i think this should be continued. if we really mean that we're not going to forget. >> thank you, rudy. thank you for your service. >> the chair recognizes mr. jackson wade. >> chairman, thank you very much and let me thank both you and ranking member thompson for your leadership. and i think it should be noted here in new york that this is one of the most bipartisan

committees in the united states congress. i'm grateful for it because i certainly -- well, not you, but as a member of congress, i fought to come to this sacred place as soon as i could. and in actuality, i managed to arrive and there was still the recovery process going on and became one of the early members of the homeland security committee and ultimately the department was created. we thaurpg for your service and we thank those i had my office just print out for me the names of firefighters, police officers, fire marshal and the chaplain you mentioned just to reinforce for america that these souls gave their life for this nation. as i walked into this place, i could not help but read -- no day shall erase you from the

member of time. i think as members of congress, this is something that maybe we should carry for all of our weighty decision that's we'll be making and i know you know that we will be discussing a very important agreement come this week. i will not choose to discuss iran and the nuclear agreement, but what i will say to the american people and those who are listening, this will be a vigorous debate with members of congress seriously considering the security of this nation. some of us will vote yes because we have deliberated and believe it is the right decision. but what i want to give you comfort is that it will be a vigorous and thoughtful discussion working on behalf of the american people as you have done. so i would to proceed to talk about the people whose lives were lost and whose memories will never be erased and to joined with me colleague and let me, of course, acknowledge

congressman king and kathleen rice and john catco, new yorkers who have been outstanding on this committee and i thank them for their service and others who have gone on. but let me, again, agree with congressman kidnapping. i have a champion of the reauthorize of this las vegas dealing with those who are impacted. so i want to be redundant and ask the question is it not imperative that we as quickly as possible reauthorization the james surdoga legislation primarily because of what you said but is the insurgently there? because as i understand it, there are individuals whose sicknesses are being discovered wsh the length of sicknesses, people who are losing their lives. is it imperative that we move quickly on there? >> the simple answer is yes and i underline that. it's important that you do move on it and i also would like to

acknowledge congresswoman from our previous encounters in the past that i know bipartisan nature of this committee, how it has always worked to do the very best that it could to try to improve homeland security. and i must tell you, just as someone who works in the field of security, i greatly appreciate what you do on both sides of the aisle. and try very, very hard to reconcile differences because you realize, as we did immediately after september 11, that in protecting ourselves against terrorism, we're not democrats and republicans, we're americans. >> i have another sort of directive question if i could. we've heard different perspectives on the funding, but i want to ask the question, the value of consistent funding for police departments, first responders having a ability to plan.

and you noted that you have a now-year budget here and, therefore, you would be willing to do that. as i do that, i can't leave out my city of houston. everyone has mentioned their area and i want to bring greetings from the former mayor of the city of houston, mayor brown, who was a commissioner here in new york that many of you know and served very ably. and to know that houston is one of the cities rumors on that day primarily because of the energy resources that were there. but the consistency of fund, you who how important is that? >> it's very important. like in business, most people in business will tell you what we need to know is what we're going to get or not again and then we can make plans. and since the budget in new york city is an enormously complex process, it's now a $78 billion budget, almost double the sooiz it was when i was mayor, consistency is enormously

important. in other words, knowing what you can count on so then you can go figure out how to make up the difference somewhere else. >> one last quick question, mr. chairman, if i could. it i'd like xlit into the record, i'm going to combine a question to the mayor. hr-2795, mr. mayor, it's a bill that i've introduced called the friends act which is to assess the impact on first responders of the concerns regarding their families. when they are being called off. and they spend long days and hours away, the responsibility of the homeland security department to look into the resources for the families of first sponsors while they're engaged in fighting the war on terror, tint, the impact of the wore on terror. i'd like to split this into the record. >> without objection, soared odd. >> and mr. mayor, let me then follow up my question on that. as i said, this bill deals with the idea of not leaving these

first responders burdened with what is happening to my family, that we should have some sort of response planned for families left behind and so i'm going to ask you, while that's a valuable thinking we should engage in. but as i started out, i indicated that this place, this lallowed ground was very moving to me while i walked in. i wanted to take a moment to honor the victims on this ground and those in shanksville, pennsylvania, and many of us were there and saw as the plane came down on the pentagon. it's a very real vision in our minds, in our psyche and to acknowledge those military personnel, as well, who went forward into battle after this time. as i note this particular hearing title, it does sort of throw us into the arms of fear

somewhat and i want to end on celebrating the bravery and the sacrifice of those who lost their lives. and i would like to -- because you have said that at any moment we're summited to the possibility of a terrorist attack anywhere in the united states where the bad guys think they can make a statement to the world about our did the democracy and our peace. so i'd like you first to comment on the value of trying to think about the families of first sponsors and, second, i'd like to you thai about what i think you're proud of is that new york city is a hallmark of resiliency and how it rebuilt itself from devastation and in that, how we should be -- i guess i'm wrapping three questions, how we should be concerned about home grown timp with the attitude that we stigmatize, no raes, no group, but we are conscious about that potential. so the friends act, which is about the families, the

resiliency, and then home grown terrorism. >> well, the friends act makes a great deal of sense, congresswoman. the reality is that the families suffering sometimes more than the responders. i've found not just on september 11, but with the loss of almost 50 firefighters and police officers before september 11 that the men and women who are engaged in the activity have the adrenaline and the sort of satisfaction of doing what it is they believe they can do best. it's the families that are left behind to suffer and i come from a family with four uncles who were police officers and one who was a firefighter and he had been seriously injured twice. and i know how devastating that was on my family.

and when when you get a big incident like this, this is something where there should be support for the families. i am very glad you mentioned the world resiliency because i am enormously proud of the following fact. there are twice as many people that live in this area of new york today. and before september 11. we weren't sure anybody was going to return here. the people who lived here had to be moved out, the businesses had to be moved out. thank goodness the two companies, merrill lynch and american express, who made clear immediately they would return, other companies i would have to spend enormous amounts of time

on the telephone and in person begging them, pleading with them to come back. this went on for some time. and i don't think we ever thought we would be able to get it back, even to where it was. but to demonstrate the resiliency of new yorkers and americans, there are twice as many people living here today than before september 11. they fully recognize that this is a target. but they also realize that you have to have life go on and you can't let these terrorists terrorize us. >> absolutely. >> a defense to terrorism is resiliency. and it's a more subtle defense but a very, very important one.

this is a very swb very vital community. has little leagues, it has soccer leagues. this has become a community. 20 years ago, this was purely, as you know, office. this was wall street. and wall street moved to midtown, really. and this has become a mixed business, residential community, it's one of the most vital and unfortunately it's starting to get too darn expensive for a lot of people. but that's what happens. the second thing is, thank you for mentioning the bravery of the firefighters and police officers. the september 11 commission, when they concluded with their recommendations and conclusions, made some very helpful observations, some auditory, some critical, all very helpful. but one of the things they pointed out was that the new

york city fire department saved 98% of the people they were capable of saving. and i would like this committee to know that the first estimate that i was given of the number of losses was 12,000. it was the first number. by the end of that day when i was asked the question how many casualties do you think you had? the number that i had from all of our sources was 6,000. and that's why i said i didn't mention a number and i said it's just too much for us to bear to talk about that right now. it turned out to be less than 3,000. that's a terrible number, and it's the worst domestic attack on our history. but the reason it wasn't 12,000 or 6,000 is because the firefighters and the police officers stood their ground.

even when they were given an evacuation order, an evacuation order to a new york city firefighter means -- or a police officer, i leave when all the civilians are gone. which means they were the last ones to leave, which is why so many of them died. but i can't tell you how many people come up to me, including outside the united states, whop in this building that day and thanked me. you know what they say to me? thank you for your firefighters because if they hadn't remained calm, we could have lost more people in the evacuation than we lost in the attack. now, i'm not sure that's true, but they believe that. but we know of many evacuations that are chaotic and that lead to death during the evacuation. this was not a kchaotic evacuation. this was an orderly, very well handled evacuation. and it only was that because

these men and women gave up their lives. and that is soushs of, i think, tremendous strength for merps. imagine if the headline the next day, in addition to the fact that this was the worst attack in our history was it also was characterized by firefighters and police officers who ran away. can you imagine how that would have affected the morale of the united states and how different was it that the headline the next day was about a terrible attack but also stories of incredible bravery on the part of the fire department, the port authority, the police department, and also single individuals like from morgan stanley and others who played the same role. >> thank you very much. we are not allowing terrorists to terrorize us. >> that's absolutely right. >> i yield back. >> thank the gentlelady.

we have eight members left for questions. we have a second panel. i'm going to have to strictly enforce the five-minute rule. with that, i recognize miss miller. >> thank you. i appreciate you enforcing the five-minute rule. mr. mayor, and i say that with the highest degree of respect because sitting here today, in this place, in this sacred place and having the opportunity, it was my first time to be here last night and joe gave us a tour of this facility and every american, thinking about where they were on that day, when we think about one of the things i think about then is that you, not being just the mayor of new york city, you were america's mayor at that time. you became america's mayor. .and the entire world looked to

you for your news conference soes we can figure out what's happening. here is rudy to tell us what's going on. we were listening to you all the time. so being here today in this place and listening to you and your thoughts and remembrances are certainly a bit overwhelming, certainly emotional. but i think i'm going to go right to picking up a little bit about what you just talked about about the 9/11 committee and some of the relgs they made. one of the things that as you said, it didn't start on 9/11, but i think many people realize we are facing a different enemy than our country has ever faced before. and the battlefield has changed. weir it's an asymmetrical battlefield. who responds? not the military in many cases. it is the first responders that were responding all over the country.

whether it just happened in chattanooga, various things that have happened here. but one of the key recommendations, i think, that came out of the 9/11 commission was they said there were so many of the different agencies that were stove piping their ability to communicate to one another. really, the inability to communicate and i think certainly i've heard you speak om occasions about some of the handicaps that you had here and the inability to communicate properly with one another and the 9/11 commission said we need to go from the need to know to the need to share. the need to share information from all various agencies and yet we still learn some of the lessons. you mentioned about the boston marathon bombings there where, really -- and we had a hearing on this, he's got 12,000, 13,000 agencies across the country. there's 35 police officers here in new york city alone. one thing about the street, street talks. street talks.

and the ability to have law enforcement gather the information, share the information, and from our best intelligence in our country, to make sure it gets down to the boots on the ground and having interoperability, etcetera. so i guess i would just like to have you expand on how important it is to have the ability, the ability to communicate the most simple thing in human behavior of communication and how important it is and for the federal government's role in making sure that we get the resources out into the first responders that people can talk to one another about what's coming, what's happening, god forbid when there is some other attempt to stack or what have you. >> i'll be very brief. because i think commissioner bratton can give you more details on this because both here and in los angeles he was in the forefront of developing criteria that you've used to try to identify terrorists.

it's all well and good to have that criteria or precursors of terrorism and the new york city police department utilizes it, but i'm not sure that's being done all over the country. and it needs to be done. as we've now found out, although new york is a big target and the main target, i think we're now turning into a situation where there are many targets. and with these lone wolves, i think we're going to see smaller towns and more isolated places attack. in a way, that produces its own fear like you're not safe anywhere. therefore, i think this committee could play a useful role in helping the department of homeland security and i think one of its main missions is to make sure that every police department, every fire department, every emergency services department in the united states has at least a

basic ability to deal with spotting terrorists, identifying terrorists, and then how to react if it happens. and i very much appreciate your description of them as cockroaches because that's a great example of the difference. these people are emerging from the ground and it's the police officers that patrol the streets that have the most knowledge of the ground. and sometimes it's the police officers who can interpret the intelligence better. there was one incident during september 11 when it took me four hours to get the information from the federal government that i needed for my police commissioner and police department to interpret. and i wanted the word. they had increased the threat on new york. but they wouldn't give us the words that we used. and i finally was able to

impress on -- oh, i won't say who in washington. i think i said something like i might cancel the world series. because i wanted the word. why did i want the word? i wanted the words because if i could share that with my police department, the words which may mean nothing to an analyst in washington might give a hint to my police officers that it's a bridge, a tunnel, a building that's going to be hit. because they may understand something in the language because they know the city. the analysts in washington doesn't know the city. but our accounts on the street nor the city. and one of the excuses i was given was we don't share information like this with local

law enforcement because local law enforcement leaks. to which -- even though it was shortly after september 11, i just laughed and said you're talking to somebody who was a federal prosecutor for 17 years and don't tell me the fbi doesn't leak. ha. so my department doesn't leak any more than the fbi. and we're not going to leak this information because we know how critical it is. and we don't have time to worry about leaks because if you give it to me now, it can be actionable information. otherwise, i'm going to read about it four days later in the in, times, anyway, so you might as well give it to me. and your committee can perform a very useful function in breaking down that barrier. the protection against these cockroaches are our local police. but they need to get information

in order to know what to look for, not just give information. they need to get information. and these joint terrorism task forces are quite an effective way to do that. and i would really consider expanding. >> thank you, mr. mayor. thank you, mr. chairman. >> in the world series you went for, and the president, perfect strike, as i recall, right? >> as chaled by derek jeter. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you for holding this hearing in these solemn grounds. i think as we go back to washington, it's important to go back there and with the perspective of knowing that what happened here was such a tragedy and that we owe it to our country to honor those who lost

their lives. and thank you for your compelling testimony, mayor, and thank you for reminding us how this area has flourished since 9/11. on 9/11, i was under a court order to take a deposition in new york city about a week later. and you can't live too much further away from new york city than i do because i'm in brownville, texas. and opposing council and i had to make a decision because there weren't too many flights going out. so we decided to drive. and it took us three days and i remember when i got here, it wasn't the new york city that i was used to. i remember how quiet it was. i was the dust. i remember just how gray it was. and then several years later, i stayed at the very hotel across the street that we stayed in last night. and i remember thinking to

myself, i'll never stay here again because by that time, the jackhammers had come back and they were starting to rebuild. and last year at the invitation of congressman crowley, my friend from queens, i had the pleasure of touring the new freedom tower. i was on the 64th floor and the port authority gave us a tour. and i remember being on that top floor and thinking to myself, what a great tribute it was to the people of the city to be rebuilding and, of course, here we are today. but at the end of the day, the most important thing about this hearing is that we, the american people, the people of new york, great deal of gratitude for rebuilding is for honoring the people that died here that day,

i'm going to limit my questions. i've got a few questions and i'm going to limit it to this. that is we talked about the diversity of the threat that we faced today. because it's not just in new york. it's all over this country. and i'm curious about what your assessment is. we know how prepared the city of new york through local, state and federal cooperation is to deal and prevent these threats. 16 in the last several years. what is your assessment of how other places around the country are prepared to prevent those threats? >> first of all, may i say that september 11 brought us together much closer than a country has ever been for about two or three months, no democrats, no republicans, no liberals, no conservatives, just americans working together. but i can tell you in new york,

opposing counsel would never be able to drive in the same car to brownsville, texas, without beating the heck out of each other. >> well, we did drive separately. >> oh, okay. now i got it. lawyers aren't affected by any of this. but may i just interrupt for one second to suggest to you that one of the funding things you should consider is funding this as a national museum. there's a bill pending to do that. and this should be a national museum. because it affected the whole nation. and i would just like you to know how important i believe that -- how important i believe that is. that this be funded as a national museum. >> we'll take that back to our committees of interest.

>> i'm sorry. the rest of the question? >> yeah. i was curious what your assessment is of how other communities -- >> oh, yes. it's very mixed. to be honest. in my ability to get around and talk to the police and -- and i travel a great deal, some communities are -- some cities and counties are tremendously well prepared. and some are not well prepared. and i've always thought that the mission of the department of homeland security is to get every place in america ready and to sort of set a standard that every community should reach. i mean, everyone should understand anthrax and saran gas

and biochemical or biological agents and how to detect them. and that's a function that the department of homeland security should monitor the present head of the department of homeland security was one of my assistant u.s. attorneys. and i have great respect for him and i think he's doing a very good job of trying to do that. and any assistance you can give him in that regard i think would be enormously important. i think we have to think of the fact that although new york is a major target as is d.c. or los angeles or these new terrorists, let's call them that, might be thinking, let's attack them in places of less resistance. let's look at -- >> like chattanooga. >> like chattanooga. >> and, therefore, what that means is a tremendous burden on the secretary of homeland

security and homeland security department to get a lot of departments that wouldn't necessarily face a lot of emergencies. up to speed. and i think your encouragement and sensible funding of that, working with j. johnson, could be a very important thing because it's something he understands and it's something he's trying to do. >> thank you. >> mr. catko is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mayor, on 9/11, i remember standing in the u.s. attorney's office in syracuse where i was an organized crime prosecutor and watching the events unfold. and it left an indelible impression on me. but also left an impression on me was your leadership that day and your leadership in the days and months thereafter. i think you had a profoundly positive effect on our country and i thank you for that. >> since that time, you gained

more experience and more knowledge on the whole terrorist threat globally and with respect to the united states. and as i see it, the threat matrix has changed. back in 9/11, people came in this country to attack us. and now we have the phenomenon with isis where people within this country of ours, american citizens, are being implored to take up arms against the country, go blow up something, go shoot something. it's a very different threat matrix now and i very much like to have your impression on what you think is the best way to attack it. you kind of touched on it with respect to the violent extremism and how it's branching out to different areas, not necessarily centered. >> one city right nor on or new york city, for example. the biggest thing that i'm concerned about now is how do you counter that violent extremism to communities?

one of the things i think we need to focus on is in those communities nationwide, we see people who might become radicalized, what do you do? how do you go about fighting it? how do you go about interceding before somebody who is dripping in the wrong direction does something terrible? and i'd like to hear your input on that. >> well, first of all, the idea that there would be lone wolf attacks or attacks that were self-generated, two, three people who were native of the question doing this in a way, our government starting about a year ago was acting as if this was a big surprise. bin laden wrote about this in 1997. and some of his surrogates

encouraged this in 1998 and '89. gosh, it happened in london in 2005. those were home grown terrorists. i don't know why we're so far behind all the time. >> again, we're not heating the warnings. >> yeah. i was -- i was one block away from the first bomb that went off in the liverpool station with exactly the same police officer who was with me and got me out of the building i was trapped in. which is a heck of a coincidence and it stopped getting me invited anywhere for about five years. but if i recall correctly, at all four of those bombers were citizens of the uk and two of them were born there. so, i don't know, i think we would have started then saying to ourselves, this is a threat.

well, okay, finally in the last year, we recognized it. and it does require a different law enforcement strategy and it requires a different military strategy. it requires, as i said, the use of the police in a much more energetic way and a much more informed way as our eyes and ears. it also requires something that is controversial, but it's true. it requires understanding there's an organizing principal. these are not singular acts of crime, like, you know, the shooting that took place in brooklyn the other night at west indian parade or a shooting that might take place in chicago or a shooting that might take place here or there or whatever. there's an organizing principal, much like the mafia was an

organizing principal. a mafia murder in new york was different than a murder in new york. the mafia murder in new york had an organizing principal behind it and these attacks have an organizing principal behind it. it's called their interpretation of how mohammed taught jihad, which slault islamic scholars could have great debate. foreign interpretation of jihad is to remove or subjugate the infinel. this comes out of islamic literature. many reformed muslims acce s re, but some muslims accept it. so there's an organizing principal here. if we act in a state of denial out of political correctness, that this is the organizing principal, then we're going to

miss a lot of these situations. because that helps to give us some of the criteria that we're looking for. i had some people think, you know, should be ignored. so the reality is we need to train our police, we need to realize that the organizing principal here is jihad and their interpretation of it. that means that's -- that means we look in the places where that is going to be taught and exploited. social media. unfortunately, mosques. certain groups that are more extremist than others. and that we somehow say the words islamic extremist terrorists and not be condemned as bigots for saying it.

congressman king made a reference to the mafia. when i indicted the first grooum group of mafia members in new york and referred to them as the mafia, i had a demonstration in front of my office. but the italian civil rights league. the italian american civil rights league was founded by a man named joe columbo, who was the head of the columbo crime feel. and i also found out something i didn't know. in the justice department manual, it was improper to refer to a group as the mafia. i could have been penalized. and you know they love to penalize in the justice system. >> oh, yes. i was there for 20 years. i understand that. >> i had actually violated a rule of the justice department in using the word "mafia." and i said, well, punish me because there is a mafia and it has a -- it has an organizing

principal. you know what that principal is? being italian. that's the principal. when there were a bunch of car thefts in southern brooklyn, i didn't go look for asians or hispanics or blacks, i went and looked for italian kids. they were doing all the car thefts. that was profiling. but if i hadn't profiled, i wouldn't have caught them. there are two kinds of profiling. profiling based on hard facts that lead you to the criminal or criminal group or criminal interz here at jihad, or profiling just for the purpose of harming some particular group that is doing nothing wrong. so i think we have to define this word carefully and i think

that political correctness has cost us lives. i do not think the attack at ft. hood would have occurred if we had not been applying political correctness and i think those brave people would be alive tod today. i think they died because of political correctness because no one was paying attention to what was being written by the captain in which he was predicted and promoted. even though his colleagues were saying that he had been a very extreme, erratic and a big ex opponent of jihad. i think he was not penalized and promoted because the people in the military were afraid that they would be akooud cuesed of picking on people of a certain group. >> thank you, mr. mayor.

>> miss rice is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. mayor, given your service as mayor to this great city of ours and your professional work since that time, how prepared do you think new york and this country are to handle a large scale cyber attack? that's probably one of the more inevitable attacks that we have to look at, in your opinion. >> not as well prepared as we are for the more traditional attacks. new york city is -- and, again, commissioner bratton i would defer to and he can explain it. but from a long timing a, new york city has constantly increased under different commissioners its response to terrorism. the new york city police department is doing a lot of work as is the fbi in cyber security.

but as a nation, we are way behind in cyber security. ware behind. because it can't be solved by the government alone. american business ves to spend a lot more money protecting themselves than they do the -- if you're the ceo of a large company, that's publicly traded, your expenditures for cyber security come out of your profit and loss. it means a million dollars, $10 million, $100 million and you show less profit in that quarter. and there's no counterveiling benefit that you get for it. it isn't like hiring 50 people and they're productive and you can put something on the other side of the column. american businesses, number one,

have not spent enough time or money on developing cyber security. and number two, the methods and techniques that we use in many cases are contradictory. not everyone works with each other. people don't want to share intellectual property. there are many problems in the area that you are talking about. that have not received the same attention that the other things we talked about earlier, the physical securities and that could be an area where this committee could play a big role in encouraging not only our government as we saw the vulnerability of the internal revenue service. my goodness, that's frightening. that's actually frightening that someone can come in and get documents from the internal

revenue service. so i would say that's an area maybe where this committee should put some great emphasis. one of the big mistakes we make, i think, is we prepare for the next attack as if it's going to be the same as the last attack. and what they're trying to do is trying to figure out some kind of new attack. and i think we've been forewarned about cyber security. i'm very glad you brought it up and i think it's something that should be gave a great deal more attention by both the government and the private sector. >> thank you, mr. mayor. >> mr. herd is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member for holding this and mr. mayor. thanks forebeing here today and your leadership during a difficult time. i'd like to thank the city of new york for hosting us. i'm from texas and texans and new yorkers have a lot in common. we're proud of our heritage. we have a bunch of great

accents. we're not afraid to fight for our country. this is the second time i've tried to be here. the first time i tried to come to this great facility, there were so many people here, it was hard to get into. so that warms my heart to know that there are many folks that are not going to forget what happened on those days of september 11th. this is special to me because i spent nine years with undercover options in the cia. mr. mayor, you talked about yemen. the day i left san antonio, texas, to start training in the cia was the day of the cole explosion. we did not take seriously what our enemies were saying then. you alluded to that in your opening remarks. we weren't taking seriously what was being stayed in the late '80s, either. it's usually and i'm nervous that we're not taking serious loy or serious fluff some of the concerns we have from all over

the world regarding our current issues. i've chased al qaeda all over the world. isis's ability to leverage social media is shocking. but one of the things that we have to do is we have to stop it their -- where they live. since you've been out of elected office, you've been a leader in emergency preparedness, in public safety, leadership during crisis. you've been described as turning an ungovernable city into one of the worldwide examples of good governance and an effective management. and you have done deals all over the world. so i'm going to refer to you as a dealermaker. and i have two questions, one on isis, one on iran. what else should we be doing in these places like syria, in some of these cities to help them

stop this skurge in their tracks? number two, people arrived on both sides of the deal and i'm having a difficult time figuring out how the united states benefites from this iranian deal and i love your insights on that. >> on the second, i would refer you to donald trump. he would probably give a much more interesting answer that would give you much more coverage for this committee. on the second question, i think we were completely outnegotiated. if you just go back and look at what the premise of this negotiation was supposed to be, we lost on all those points. this all began, you know, ten years ago with u.n. resolutions that iran would be nonnuclear.

that it wouldn't have any nuclear power. for the reason that i stated, you would have to be an idiot to think they need nuclear facilities in a country that's oil rich and natural gas rich. they don't need the peaceful use of nuclear power. so the premise of the original resolutions was a nonnuclear iran. we gave that away with the preliminary agreement when we began the negotiation with how nuclear should iran be? so what do we get back from that? the release of prisoners? an iran that is going to give up being devoted to the destruction of israel? an iran that is going to give up being devoted to the death of

americans? an iran that's going to stop funding hezbollah, hamas, and about 12 other groups that don't have names yet? we didn't get anything back from that. then, we were going to have ronald reagan trust but verify. well, we're just trusting. we're not verifying. first of all, we're confining it to the iaea. the iaea was fooled twice by iran before. in 2003, in 2005. the fordaul facility, actually, three discoveries that the iaea missed. i'm sorry, i wouldn't trust them. i'm a baseball fan.

three strikes and you're out. trust but verify to ronald reagan meant we verify. we, the united states, we go in and we make sure that they're not hiding nuclear material like they did before. did anybody took the time to read rouhani's memoir, the reformed prime minister of iran, he bragged in his memoir that he fooled us twice before. he brags about it. it is astounding to me that we are trusting him. and then we're giving them 24 da da days, which by the way as a lawyer having read the agreement, i could probably

extend it to six months because you can appeal. and it's not us that raises the objection. it's the iaea who got fooled twice before, actually three times before. i'm trying to figure out what we're getting out of this. we're getting out of this the promise that they're not going to be nuclear for ten or 15 years. if you believe that, there is a bridge right near here i'm willing to sell you. so as a dealmaker, teaching deal making 101, i would give us an f. but that's no different than our reset of our relationship with russia when we gave up the nuclear defense of the czech republic and poland.

and what did we get in return for it? how about nothing. i would not sell my house for nothing. i would get something in return. maybe if we had stuck to the nuclear defense of the czech republic and poland, crimea may never have happened. so i see a one-sided deal, completely in favor of iran. and i see, worse than that, an iranian empire developing. >> thank you. >> with iraq and syria and yemen. >> thank you. >> mr. reclose is recognized. >> thank you, chairman mccall for holding this hearing at this hallowed ground where nearly 14 years ago to the day americans looked into the face of evil

something that took thousands of innocent lives in the mocht cowardly act of terrorism the world has ever known, the evil of radical islamic extremism changed the world that day, it changed the lives of everyone here in this room. for me personally, it compelled me to become a federal prosecutor and later a u.s. attorney. for that reason, i know all too well what the radical islamic terrorists became today. they will not stop, they will not relent, they will not give up in their quest to destroy the american way of life. we're here today in recognition of the fact that we must remain ever vigilant of the threat of rad can extremism and those that seek to cause us harm. but here in this place, it will serve as a somber reminder of the lives lost and just how fragile our freedoms are.

so, too, must this place always be a reminder of the heroic efforts of so many of our police, our fire departments, rescue personnel and volunteer citizens who stood up in a historic time of need for this nation. and i include you in that group, mayor giuliani. your leadership and the aftermath of 9/11 was something that not just the city, but the entire country needed to rebuild and to persevere. it's been said and written by many that we all became new yorkers at that time. and in that respect, you became the mayor to all of us. and i know i join everyone here and everyone around the country that we would forever be grateful for your leadership. i came prepared today as the chairman of this committee's subcommittee on cyber security to ask you your opinions on

that. you've given your comments and answered most of the important questions that i came here to ask. so out of respect for the second panel and respect for your time, i'll just say thank you and yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you very much, mr. radcliff. and let me just say two things very, very briefly. first of all, thank you very much for the compliments about leadership. but i would point out that i rested on the shoulders of giants. that whatever credit i get for leadership, there were hundreds and hundreds of people that were equally as heroic and more so than i was. and it was from them that i derived my ability to move forward and do whatever i could do. so the credit doesn't belong to me. it belonged to all of them. and thank you for your interest in cyber security because i do

believe that as congresswoman rice pointed out, this is the great threat that we face in the future and it's the one that we're not paying as much attention to as we should. >> mr. donovan. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. mayor, when you're the most junior member of a committee, by the time the questioning gets to you, you ask the witness what their favorite pizzeria is, and i already know yours. you were not only america's mayor, you are not only the mayor of new york city, you were my mayor. of all the people on this panel, i was a resident of new york city during your -- and i very much appreciate what you've done for this city, what you continue to do. since that time, you have traveled throughout the country for the last 14 years. and i remember calling a friend of mine from a different part of our country after the tragedy that happened right here and

told them, wasn't it an amazing feeling to see all these cars with american flags flying on them, how people have come together? and he said to me, what flag? there weren't flags flying from the cars where he lived. and some people at that time, although we talked about the heroics of people from other cities coming to help us, a lot of people looked at this as an attack on new york and not an attack on america. and this coming friday, you and i will be going to many, many events in our certify to continue our pledge that we will never forget. i'm wondering through your travels throughout the country, have people forgotten? >> yes. some people have forgotten. and it is in the nature of just the human being that as you move further and further away from an

event, like the death of a loved one, you don't forget, but the impact of it is not as -- isn't as great. and, of course, the closer you are to an event, like whether you're a new yorker or you had friends in new york or -- so i think it is the job of this committee to remind people of that. and i want to conclude by commending this committee from the day of inception to today. mr. king, mr. mccall, all the democratic members, think you've been one of the most effective committees in congress in the things that you've done. i think you've been one of the most effective being able to forge bipartisan solutions where you could. and i ask you, in closing, to please consider once again the legislation to make this a

national memorial. because this will serve to remind all americans when we forget. because i think that, unfortunately, this is going to be a war we are going to be in for a long time. so we have to keep reminding americans of what's happening because it's so subtle and it's sometimes hard for them to see. those of you have been in it in some pass and you know it. so if it does happen again, it doesn't happen because we weren't paying attention. >> mr. clauson is recognized. >> got time for one more? >> of course. >> first, i want to thank you for your service and for your

bravery. now, according to my economic understanding, the u.s. economy is about 16 trillion, maybe a little more. we're over 20% of the global gdp. we are the engine of everyone else's economic growth. i think you would agree. $50 billion of trade deficit, roughly, every single month. i think that if china or the european community, just as two examples, had to choose between doing business with iran and selling product at walmart or target, what do you think they would decide? when i hear that this was a bipolar decision between this deal and war, i wonder what happened to our economy. that it is the growth engine for the whole world. and then, mr. mayor, i'd take it

another step and say, we have a financial system. you may know better than me. how many billions of dollars in a arbitrage and hedges take place every day across the continent and the way the foreign corrupt practices law works, if somebody does something wrong and they put their money into our financial system, they get nabbed correct, right? >> correct. >> and, yep, to my knowledge, we have t in the iranian deal we have not used this awesome power of being the center of the global financial system in the leverage for the deal. ich astoui am astounded that we never making a deal based on verification without using the global economic leverage that seems to obvious. i must be missing something here. .i'm not trying to run anybody down in particular. but i think that the this idea

that the sanctions would fall apart is only because we don't want to use our financial system or our global economic power. am i missing something here or would you agree with this different take on the iranian outcome? >> i have not just grave reservations about the agreement. the agreement is, to me, frightening. because we get so little in return, if anything, and we are creating an empire. we are making available to a country that is set on the destruction of our greatest ally, a country that is dedicated to killing americans and continues to say that as they negotiate with us. we are making billions of dollars available to them. everyone on this panel and

everyone of any political party would agree that iran is the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world. why in god's name would you give them billions of dollars? what does it mean to be a state sponsor of terrorism? it means you take money and you give it to terrorists. its means you take weapons and you give it to terrorists. it means if you are a nuclear power, you take nuclear capacity and give it to terrorists. one of the main reasons that these resolutions began was not just the fear that iran would attack israel where missileith . it was the fear that if iran had nuclear capacity, it would hand it off to the terrorists that it is presently sponsoring. and we could va dirty bomb in

new york or in chicago or in london or in paris. somehow, we have forgotten that. iran should have no nuclear capacity. they cannot be trusted with nuclear capacity. could we have used our economic support to stop it? absolutely. absolutely. and finally, when you say the only alternative is war, you make it clear that you will not go to war. which maybe would have been the greatest leverage of all if the military option had not only been kept on the table, but maybe the military option were something that they were afraid of. to win a negotiation, you need leverage. we gave away our leverage when we backed off that red line 12

times. because the ayatollah took the measure of his opponent and he took the measure of his opponent as i don't have to worry about a military response. >> let me close by saying there were many heros that day, that fateful, tragic day and you, sir, were the leader. you are america's mirror and on behalf of a grateful nation, i just want to personally say on behalf of the committee, thank you so much for your service. >> and thank you very much for coming here and reminding everyone of what happened and for your continuing work for the security of our country, which i think is just about the best in the united states congress. thank you. >> thank you. >> in the interest of time,

we'll move to the second panel. >> let me quickly introduce the

next panel. first, we have commissioner william bratton, currently serving as the 42nd commission they are of the city of new york. he previously served as commissioner of the boston police department and the los angeles police department. next, we have commissioner daniel nigro joining the new york city fire department in 1969. he's held every uniform rank within the department during his 32nd year career including chief of the department following the attacks of september 11th. next, we have mr. ielpi who serves as the president of the september 11th families association in great neck, new york, and he became a volunteer fireman in 1963 and rose to the position of chief of the department on september the 11th he helped organize operations at ground zero until midnight and

return to the site daily to assist in the rescue of the operations. he continues his work for nine months to ensure all who were lost or return home including his own son, jonathan, who was in the squad 288. finally, we have mr. gregory thomas served as national organization of law enforcement executives, serves as the senior executive for law enforcement association and the office of the king's county district attorney to the new york city police department. the chair now recognizes commissioner bratton. >> good morning. i am the police commissioner for the decide of new york. on behalf of mayor de blasio, i welcome you to new york city and to this 9/11 memorial and museum. locates of these hearings could

not be more appropriate. this site was hallowed by the lives we lost in the attack. wa been dedicated as a memorial and museum to promise in an event event from happening here or anywhere else in this great city. as you know, three days, we will see the 14th anniversary of the september 11th attacks. in those 14 years, the new york city police department has changed dramatically. its traditional realm of municipal policing and eventual crime disorder and public approval was expanded to include keeping the city and its people safe from terrorism. this morning, i'll provide a brief overview of the current terrorism threat and describe some of the nypd's counterterrorism measures that are constantly evolving and expanding. and provided more extensive written testimony to the committee, as well.

in many respects, we currently face a greater likelihood of attack than we have seen in years. new york city, with regard to the current terrorism threat environment, we now face multiple hazards. lone wolfs, as my deputy commissioner of intelligence says, al qaeda, particularly al qaeda in the arabian peninsula or aqap which operates primarily out of yemen, it remains a distinct threat. they are believed to be the primary driver of the attack in paris on ""charlie hebdo." isil, isis, and ebb establishing a pseudo state between iraq and syria, isil lass fundamentally destabilized the middle east and other parts of the world. the important words there are

direct impact and, yet. isil has been far more successful than al qaeda in driving indirect impactses. i is i l has shunned al qaeda's model which focuses on secretly recruiting and training small cells for the next attack. instead, we have embraced a lone wolf model in the name of the so-called islamic state. isil proms that those who carry out this carnage will be publicly revered on global social media. it will be remembered as heroic fighters who wavent an essential part of a struggle. this is a particular appeal to those who fall in the margins of society. those were appealing at most other things in life. isil ask focused on attacks that are low tech, low cost and high impact. killing with a gun or a car was simply made i.d. to something

even those who feel most of things unfortunately can do. most americans don't know that the law enforcement and counterterrorism intelligence communities have been remarkably busy recently. several men were arrested in new york, new jersey and boston for taking part. and plots being pushed over social media platforms. these recent plots, most uncovered by the fbi, nypd, joint terrorism task force after a failed attack in garland, texas, plots that involve building pressure cooker barns and the days leading up to new york's fourth of july fireworks celebration. this wave of arrests comes after the jttf arrested two new york city women in april, women who were in the process of research explosive compounds to construct an ied. among the targets they discussed for their barn plot was a police funeral for officers killed in the line of duty. i'm proud to say i was able to meet and tharng the new york

city police detective who spent more than a year on this case and was a linchpin in that investigation. none of these plots, had these gone forward, would have had the scope of the attacks that happened here. in that respect, they do not have the depth of those we face from al qaeda even at its strongest. but while the threat from terrorist groups is not as deep has grown to be mild wide, indeed, worldwide. after the worst terrorism attack in in, new york history, new york city proved its resilience. but any terrorist attack in this city, regardless of scale, would have a profouns effect. here, across the country and throughout the world. that is why, even with the significant funding for the department of homeland security and its appropriators in congress the nypd continues to invest our own resources in this fight. and in the "charlie hebdo" attacks in paris, we saw coldly executed by weapons and munit n

munitions. the nypd team flew to paris and was quickly briefed on all the lessons learned there. hostage negotiators went to sydney, australia. when isil-driven attacks occur in the about a do museum, they were assigned to interpol travel to tunisia.