us on facebook at c-span history. next, dana shoaf talks about the history of the bayonet and its practicality during the civil war. he also discusses the difference in opinion between civil war officers and enlisted men on how a bayonet should be used in battle. his talk is about one hour 10 minutes. i am the editor in chief of civil war, and i would like to welcome everyone to our civil war symposium. on behalf of all my colleagues, welcome. you are surrounded by civil war history. we welcome you to spotsylvania county, what is literally the

bloodiest ground in america. hopefully we will have the opportunity to commemorate and recognized some of this stories. -- i am proud to be presenting for you a fabulous lineup of speakers over the next day and a half. an excellent tour on sunday morning, and to consider what a sunday and how that is our legacy. kicking things off for our program is our keynote speaker, dana shoaf. he comes to us from "civil war times" magazine. for generations of people that magazine has served as the single most influential and accessible point in the civil war history. there for 16

years. he has been editor for seven. he has also left some commentary copies for us upstairs. when i asked him about coming down here to speak as part of our symposium, i told him the team and i said what is something that is interesting to you these days? what gives you the chance to explore? as a magazine editor heat oversees the stories of so many other people that perhaps he had not had the time to explore the stories that he himself was interested in. and so tonight he brings us a story that is near and dear to him as he continues these explorations. a cultural and military history of the band that. is my and gentlemen, it distinct pleasure to introduce a man who has been very good to me in my career and to my colleagues, dana shoaf. >> [applause]

wow. i just made it here. late,sually habitually but today i was really proud of myself because i wanted to leave at 3:00. i figured i would be her by 5:30. i was pulling out of the parking lot at 3:00. very proud of myself. and then i hit route 17 at the geico, and it took me nearly an hour to hit 95. i was watching my gps take a long -- take a long --tick along, and then this thing pops up. rob has checked in. well maybe il, could call him. do you need help finding the place? i said no. i'm on my way. i'm running a bit behind. thankfully i did make it here. chris mentioned the magazine

very kindly. before i get to that, i should say for part of the time i was stuck behind a white ford pickup, not unlike my own, with a very large confederate battle flag. it had a huge bloodhound as well in the back of the truck. the driver is looking at this and it's like well, i guess if i have to relate to a civil war conference -- first of all, there is no doubt where that guy stands on the issues. >> [laughter] dana: and secondly there is some meeting here that i have not parsed yet. i would like to point out that emanuel gaffey contributed to .hat article chris roberts our conversation a

little differently. do you want to come and ?peak and i think this is a fabulous organization because it is giving people a chance to get started, to get themselves published on a blog. it is giving new voices a place to express themselves. i think that is really important. new historians coming up and new material being explored. i suggested a couple talks i had not already done, he said i don't know. said maybe i could talk about been that's because i have a couple of ideas. like a rookie i went into it with ideas that did not flash out. ahead and i put this talk together.

i want to start out with this oedipal image of federal theirrs, all with this -- bayonets, probably staring into the camera. i thought we would want to move ahead to the next slide, it might help to give a very general history of the bayonet. the first man at come into bayonets come into existence in the 16 60's in england. of course before that firearms became available to military forces, lances and hikes were standard weapons. after firearms are available to troops there with the idea that they want to build convert them to pikes or lances if necessary. the first band that's were simply meant to be plugged into the barrel of the weapon, and of course there is an obvious disadvantage there, to give you cannot discharge piece.

i have a friend that collects these. they are very rare, as you can imagine. the workmanship is incredible. they were used as shows of force. he has one that is engaged -- engraved with king james the 's coat-- king james ii of arms. by 1687 the french have socket bayonet. by 1703 it is standard in all major european militaries. simple, buts fairly very ingenious. socketonet is simply a that goes over the muzzle and lugs in place on a log --

so that you can still load and discharge the weapon. frederick the great was a particular fan of the ban at -- bayonets and is quoted as saying, fire as little as possible in battle and charged with the bayonet whenever possible. they are heavily used, they are considered a primary weapon on the battlefield in part because of the unreliability of firearms. i just want to bring it up to the civil war at this point. socket the model, 1855, bayonet. this is your standard civil war bayonet. it really did not change much since the 18th century. there has been the addition of a reinforcing ring at the -- is my pointer working? it was. erratic.

ringan see the reinforcing , and then there is a swivel, a locking ring that actually turns to hold it in place. they have not changed a lot. the blade is about 18 inches long. it is a 21 inch overall weapon. when it is on the end of the musket it is pretty fearsome looking. the other type of bayonet the use he used somewhat is the sword and that -- sort of bayonet.- sword it was designed to take the place of a small sword, which is another 18th-century holdover, the replacement of a particularly long and heavy uncomfortable bayonet. it also goes over the muzzle. muscle flies through that and there is a locking mechanism underneath the barrel.

that is sort of the breed evolution of the bayonet. to revolutionary war in 1775 70 -- 1783, it is a primary weapon. it is a weapon of great concern for the american side as they are not adequately trained to use them. battles were called off in the revolutionary war because of rain by the american forces because of the lack of faith in the bayonets. the philadelphia campaign, the battle of the clouds it was 1777, on september 16, right before the big battle of brandywine. lieutenant sean of the -- wrote, our army was formed, but rain coming on very fast, general washington filed off very quickly in order to avoid an action where the

enemy with the use of their bayonets would give them to great superiority. you can see it is such a primary weapon that washington is afraid to engage the british using only that tool. that one of the greatest disasters of the campaign for the americans one is-- one of the disasters -- the battle of pay only -- payroll he not far from philadelphia. british nighttime attack. you can see they were camped in brush huts along the tree line. withritish attacked .ayonets only a british officer who will later behavior in 17 81st iron, and also complicity in the treason of editing arnold, recalled --

benedict arnold, recalled we rushed along the line putting to the bayonets. overtaking the main heard of fugitives, staff great numbers. muskets,aded their killed 200, and 100 were wounded by the bayonets. if you know anything about military history, you usually have more wounded than killed, but in this case the numbers are reversed. the british are having a little fest.fast -- you can see some british light infantry engage in that in the foreground, nicely silhouetted by the fire. a couple years later, july 16, 1779, wayne had a measure of

revenge at the battle of stony point, north of new york city. he attacked a british garrison .ith unloaded muskets as well one of his subordinates work, , thehole business -- wrote whole business was done with six bayonets. overtookilled when he that garrison. weapononets is a primary on the north american continent. moving forward a number of decades to the mexican war, 1846 to 1848, the bayonet is still a primary decisive weapon. at the battle of palo alto thisal zachary taylor -- is a depiction of that -- taylor wrote, by order was to make free

, as far asbayonets the enemy would permit. 1847,battle on august 28, a united states engineer who will later be killed in action in the civil war during the battle of chantilly wrote, the enemy was carried at the point of the gannett -- of the bayonet. winfield scott was the overall commander of that time. his -- he served the army from 1808 until 1861. we often look at him of it comically, because at this point he is overweight and aged, but he still comes up with a plan to choke off the blockade of the

southern port. he still had a good mind but he is sort of pushed aside because of his age. he wrote a manual. he was the author of military tactics. that remains the standard of for the-- of arms united states military up until 1855. , the weapons that of the united states army were using primarily consisted of muskets. i know this is familiar to many of you but we will go over it again. what you see depicted there is a 69 caliber musket ball that would be use in a 75 caliber weapon. they made the round ball a lot smaller than the muzzle because rapidlywder jumps quite

wedded it is discharged. is smaller than the barrel it allows for rapid loading, but it is not very accurate. when it discharges the muscle -- when it discharges the ball can actually bounce around the muzzle. they are to 80 yards not bad. i do not want to claim any military service. i have done infantry with both of these types of firearms, and i think within 60 yards these are a little more accurate in a sense of knocking someone down and they have been given credit for. are not worried exactly where the ball hits and you just want to knock someone down, you can do it. so scott's manual is based on the troops using a bullet, like so, and an ignition system known , whichflint lock

actually use a piece of stone to discharge the weapon. the first thing a soldier would do would be empty some black powder in this part of the lock, called the pan. is pulled-- the cock back, it is actually called the camera at the time. it is shot over the pan. when the trigger is pulled, the hammer comes forward, strikes comesmmer -- the cock forward, strikes the hammer. there are a lot of things that can go wrong with the initiative -- ignition system. the pan is susceptible to dampness. you are exposing your priming powder to the outside elements. powder burns quite easily. it can pluck up that little hole and run through the barrel. the flint can get warm down --

worn down. all of those have happened to me as i have never had my life depended -- dependent on it. at some point the thing misfires. forward we have some really important technological advances after the mexican war, one of the most widely talked about is a new bullet. 1849 there is a conical ball with a hollow base. how did this revolutionize warfare? this bullet is also smaller than the poor -- bore in which it is inserted, he has made a pair -- a bullet you can use with rifling. when you fire the weapon it gives it a spin or a twist and

increases its accuracy. the reason they could not use them to- they did issue some selectmen, but they could not issue them to a widespread body of troops -- they could not be loaded fast enough because those round bullets had to be packed so tightly that it took a long time to load them, it took a lot of effort and skill. this bullet changes that. the base is hollow so when the gun is fired the gases of the brink of power expand -- the gases of the gunpowder expand the base and give it a much greater accuracy. , commonly used in the civil war, have sites -- sights of up to 1000 yards. that is theoretically. person -- what we are most familiar with is a tweaking of

this bullet. it was adopted by the united states army in 1835. you have probably seen in 1855 model bayonet. we have a new bullet. there are a lot of changes happening in this technology. the other change, and the one thing that i am really intent on researching, is a new ignition system. tabink that the percussion is extremely overlooked when we talk about the changes that occur on civil war battlefields and lead to a lot of bloodshed. people always refer to rifling nid the many ball -- many --mi ball as the reason casualties are so high. engagement,ook at it is pretty easy to determine

that most of the killing is done within 60 to 80 euros. that is inaccurate accurate, decent enough range. sure.m not i have to say, no one has really jumped on that bandwagon yet. i will probably talk about it until someone else does and then i will be at her. bitter.l be better -- this is the change that really changes things on the battlefield. let mecussion's tab -- catch up on my notes. we first started seeing them around 1814. some patents are applied for in england in the 18 20's. no one persony credited with inventing them

because several people are experiment in with them. but basically the percussion cap flintlocks rid of the and cleans it up. what you have is this top hat that is impregnated with a dab whichminate of mercury, is an explosive compound. when you strike it it pops, or sparks. the soldier would load the musket, pulled the bear -- holding him -- pull the hammer back, pull the trigger, and the cap is pops. the barrelrops into and discharges the firearm. percussion tabs were around during the mexican war. retarded their development. he did not care for them. he thought they were wasteful. in his mind a flint can be used for a number of shots, where

,hey can -- a percussion cap one shot and you are done. he was hesitant to introduce this new technology because he thought it was wasteful and soldiers would run out of it. -- as the war preceded proceeded and soldiers use them with great success, more and more of them were issued and you begin to see this change. one of the things that is really important about this weapon is that it is really relatively waterproof, unlike the flintlock which cannot discharge during rainy or damp days. it is resilience. i have maybe had one misfire twice out of all the rounds that i have fired. these changes require new

manuals. william hardy, who lived from 1815 to 1873 and served the united state army from 1838 to 1861 when he left to join the confederate army, wrote a manual in 1855. he is the author of "rifle and light infantry tactics," published in 1835. began, theyil war essentially had this gentleman, manualasey, copy is .lmost word for word one of the big changes between these manuals is a command called fire by file.

this is basically a file is a front ranks of man -- rank man and a rear rank man. this is a copy of a plate taken from a reproduction of the manual. regiment. infantry each one of these rectangles represent a company, but imagine -- when a command to fire is given, the front and rear command on the right bring up their weapons and discharge. then subsequently every man to the left buyers so it is bank -- bang bang bang down the line. scott's manual is very stylized. the men on the right margin of five paces, discharge, marched back, reenter the line,

about-face, and then the men to their left to that. casey time of party and y and casey, the men on the right discharge and lookthe men on the left out the corner of their eye, and when they see that that gun is emptied, they fire. systematic.t be it should be bang and then pop pop pop. is toason they do it that ise enemy -- no, not the purpose of it. the purpose of it is to stagger the unloaded weapons in your company so that you always have somebody pulling the trigger. the timeime -- by

these guys discharge their weapons, the men on the right have theoretically reloaded. there is always someone pulling the trigger. this command is given frequently. you read it all the time in the official records. lieutenant of the wisconsin iron brigade of gettysburg, they attacked the unfinished railroad cuts on july 1. he wrote in his official report, when my line had reached a fence about 40 rods from the enemy, i fire by a higher -- file. there is always somebody shooting at the enemy. means that that is going to impact the use of the bayonet, because bad at charges -- bayonet charges in

previous wars, a lot of the command was given to fire by volley. volley, bang. i know they staggered it by rank, but that gives microseconds for an enemy to close. airhe civil war, that dead really does not exist. there is always somebody pulling a trigger. it has nothing to do with the minie or the many ball -- ball and everything to do in an -- with an increased confidence in the ignition system. they know their guns are going to go off. i have got to get down to the national archives. related to thes testing of the pressure cap. it would be interesting to see, i just really think that is

the primary reason. percussion caps, many balls -- mini balls, rifling. it affects how people view the bayonet. i found an interesting account. this is a really cool illustration. this is one of the blueprints of the 1855 rifle made at harpers ferry with a short bayonet attached. i thought it was interesting. the journal of the society of art is an english revocation, and there was an article in the may 17, 1861 edition written by john macgregor, london, scottish, rifle volunteers. the title of the article is

about instruction in rifle shootings. enfieldt out to the rifle manufacturer. they were used in great quantity during the civil war. they went out to the manufacturer and they were testing them. that whenconcluded soldiers are caused to fire with their bayonets, they are at a disadvantage. seldom fixesan who his ban is to shoot accurately without one, it seems quite clear that the position drill ought not to be conducted with the fixed bayonet. i found a very interesting. they band that had been such a primary weapon on the battlefield, and then right as the civil war is beginning easy skepticism begin, at least in europe, about the feasibility of it and is it really worthwhile. pond, thede of the

civil war soldiers are still issued and instructed in the use of the bayonets. mostly through mcclung -- mcclellan. of course charge mcclellan will go on to fame, or infamy, during the civil war. but in 1852 he was a captain and engineer when he published mcclellan's band at drill -- bayonet drill, which is really a word for word translation of a french manual written by a sensing -- master fencing -- fencing master. this is a description of one of the movements described, a very stylized fencing drill. in 1852 mcclellan is writing, the bayonet is more formidable than either the lance or the saber. there is annues --

instance on record of a french soldier who defended himself with his bayonet against the simultaneous attack of 11 russian soldiers, eight of whom he killed. to soldiersattle defended themselves and their bayonets against 25 spanish cavalry, and after having inflicted several severe wounds, rejoined their regiments without a scratch. who knows if that is true or possible. ande was actually the first second battle that took place in 1812. he is looking back at some of these napoleonic battles, which -- he is going fairly far back even for the time. he is writing this in 1850 and going back to the beginning of the 19th century to find these examples of the use of a bayonet . the soldiers themselves -- when

the bayonet drill actually came to be applied, we have a marvelous quote, july 10, 1861. he wrote we have been drilling a little on ban met -- bayonet exercises. our captain knew no more about the drill than the man in the mood. you kind of pick up on this dissing of the bayonet. interesting, partially because these are volunteer troops and they are not being trained very well, it you do not see them recognizing that it is a very important weapon. in new york soldier wrote about the bayonet drill. we look like a line of beings made up of a frog, a crane, a crab, and a grasshopper, all of ,hem rapidly jumping, jerking

every which way and all gone mad. this guy was obviously a natural. very vivid description of these guys trying to use this stylized rail and not being very successful. and irs like mcclellan -- could present many examples of this. when you look at officers at the division level and higher, you see there is still a high regard for the bayonet during the civil war. wasgentleman on the left commander of the army in the .ississippi muchote it is expected effective work will be done with the bayonet. wasgentleman next to him not a west point graduate, but also gained very high rank and became chief of staff to the

army of the potomac. his soldiers, your ammunition is never expended while you have it you are bayonets. socket. to the and the next gentleman there, who also wrote the chief of staff, was a division commander at fredericksburg, and he wrote, the only mode of attacking successfully was with the bayonet. the gentleman on the far right is general richard taylor, the confederate commander. report, orders were given to rely on the bayonet. so we see officers of a certain rank are still calling for the use of the bayonet and believe it is decisive in battle.

obviously there are some times when bayonets do matter during the civil war. this is a picture of humphreys division going in at fredericksburg, and he did in fact order essentially a bayonet charge. humphreys division was the last attack on mary tietz, it is interesting to me -- mary's heights. my great grandfather and my great uncle were part of tyler's brigade, and my great uncle was mortally wounded and hauled off shutter used as a stretcher. he died two days later. humphreys attack came as close to the wall as any of the northern attacks. i don't say that just out of pride in my relatives. it is fairly well documented. he told his men not to stop and fire but to rush for the wall. they did not make it. they had been at all their

weapons and he was advocating them in his official report. but they did not get a chance use them. they never made it to the wall. we have all heard about , whoerlain or his major ordered the command charge bayonets. not far from here on this ,attlefield of spotsylvania there was reportedly tremendous band at fighting -- bayonet fighting. there is an example at kennesaw mountain where they engage with a bayonet. but it is not the primary weapon that it was in previous wars. if we shift to look at how the rank and file used in at -- bayonets, take a look at the army of tennessee. gains most ofrver

his same because he is tagging along with the army at gettysburg. this is a picture of him as he was dressed during his time in the united states. unlike the movie "gettysburg," regimentalwear his uniform. he went in civilian clothes. thetarted his visit with army in tennessee around the time of the campaign, and he was shocked to see about half the army of tennessee did not have bayonets. asked around-- he and was told a lot of the guys got rhythm. they threw them away and by mid-war the weapon is so highly disregarded that a lot of the guys have just gotten rid of them.

a lot of commanders are ordering but one wrote,, i intended to have tried the virtue of the bayonet. i regret very much to say that the regiment failed to come forward. so he orders the bayonet charge. his men won't engage. -- he fights at brandy station, the big cavalry battle, and wrote that he delivered a saber stroke so beautiful it nearly cleaned the head of the union shall -- soldier. , these accounts of current after are

every engagement, but as far as my experience goes bayonet fights rarely, if ever occur and exist only in the imagination. he actually went across the battlefield looking for bayonets . he could not find any. that the common soldier of the rank and file like to do is post of bayonets because it makes them appear very warlike. when i was putting this together i realized -- i am sure there are others, but i cannot think of anybody who actually bayonets anyone else. brownell is the 11th member who rushed to washington to protect the city. in 1861 he accompanies his his colonel to-

alexandria. roof and itto the is a huge flag to take a wild to cut down. they are coming down the steps and they have this thing in both arms. he is holding it when james jackson, the proprietor of the hotel discharges his shotgun and kills him immediately. rifle,l pulled out his shoots jackson, and then runs him through with his bayonet. brownell became a northern war hero. he actually gets the medal of honor for this in 1877. he has got not one but two bayonets. one in the scabbard and one

mounted on his rifle. obviously showing off the weapon that he used to dispatch jackson. he is standing on the side that was torn down. symbolically here is a bayonet that made a difference, because many northerners heard this story. i have a series of soldiers posing with their bayonets. they are using them like daggers here, looking very warlike and , but they certainly give the impression that they are going to go out and stab someone. here we have the united states colored troops, you just see scads of these guys when they go in the studio. the bayonet goes on. it really makes them feel military. with anotherdier saber van at.

you can get a close up view. if you could go back, i had him as a joke labeled hipster. >> [laughter] dana: some people told me they didn't like it. what happened was i was working on this and my photo editor said, he looks like a hipster. i thought well, you know, hipsters look like him. i thought i would make sure everyone is awake after the cocktails. and then we have john lee, another nice shot. he has his huge side nice as well. bayonets also figure in horse play, it is very on photograph for we have an enlisted man miming that he is banned having his commanding -- bayonets and

his commanding officer. really if you read into this a little bit, it is now like a plaything. it has been disregarded so much of a weapon. they are playing around with it. , 1862 he says we had a long and that -- bayonets and skirmish drill and we were called out for brigade drill. the second platoon came near running the first platoon through. at a coming in double-click. the first platoon had their gun stacked. , supposing they would throw up their guns. bayonet charge

on the other half of his company. that they did not stop and instead they made for them on a dead run. i ordered halt and they stopped not more than two feet from their breasts. one man got it through his coat sleeve. of as awhat i think disregarding of the power of the bayonet. really what it evolved into during the civil war is a multi tool that is used for also the purposes except what it's intended purpose is. , entrenching.ch in the foreground you see a gentleman using his band at -- his ans to lose it -- his ans -- earth. to loosen the

we have two great accounts, both written in 1887. the first is a recollection of soldier life written by john billings. he served in the 10th massachusetts. by charlesstrated reed who won the medal of honor for bravery at gettysburg. this is one of the sketches, as he put it, the government provided candlesticks. it were a steel -- they were steel and very durable. stickney point in the ground and the candlesticks are ready for service. was thenet shank candlestick of the rank and file. this formerly feared weapon is now a candleholder.

book is not as well-known. tone a little different in , it is written in a fictional first-person manner and follows si klegg through the military. and he claims that he had never been able to reach, with his bayonet, the body of anyone of his misguided citizens but he had stabbed a great many pigs and shapes. in fact he found it most useful and could not have gotten on without it. he often came into cap with fresh bacon impaled on it. he also writes to his mother that his bayonet had been covered in southern lead --

blood and he had stabbed a paid -- pig. throughit impaled there, here it is being used as a candlestick for a card game. this soldier is using the socket as a coffee grinder. the he is running down at hapless pig, and here he is with his bacon getting back to camp. gory function. many have been found excavated or even surviving that were bent and used as body hooks on battlefields to drag the dead. we will go to the next slide, andcan see confederate dead these unfortunate fellows, some of them have their legs bound

together. that could then be grabbed with the body hook and pulled along the bayonet is used in that manner as well. fascinating that the weapons used -- that the weapon's use is debated among scholars as well. 1982 they released a book called "attack and died there and die."tack reallys -- they deconstruct and look at tactics. there is a passage in which they discuss the bayonet. medical directories for the army

from a.otomac that include the wilderness, attacksania, petersburg , created 50,000 casualties. were bayonetose wounds. 0.01% casualties. a very infinitesimal amount. some could have been bayoneted and died, but they say it was such a small amount that it proves it was useless during the civil war. gentlemand english released a book, "battle tactics of the civil war."

this is an illustrated abridgment i picked up many years ago that basically distills this discussion of tactics into a pretty cool book with illustrations. he uses the same statistics, but but he says it to argue that the bayonet was not effective based on casualties is missing the point. he says it was a psychological weapon and by putting it on the end of a musket the soldier felt stronger and it gave encouraged to charge across the deadly ground. many times, just as the army of said,see and -- tennessee the opposing live will break and run before you get close. however, they are not the classic and that charges of the charges of the pre-civil war era. photo was taken on may 23,

1865. this is a brigade. differentke out the regiments if you look closely. german forces marched the next day, may 24, but i like this quote. he said the glittering muskets looked like a solid mass of steel, moving with the regularity of a pendulum. that ifet a sense applied properly the bayonet could be an intimidating weapon. it certainly help soldiers helped-- it certainly soldiers appear warlike. the battlefield is really too deadly to use the bayonet. this was sort of my first step in putting mitel into all this, but if you take something -- and often we neglect material

culture when we study the civil war. if you take something as seemingly mundane as the bayonet and look into it, you can find how soldiers viewed that and learn more about tactics and the process of the battlefield. one last slide here. the united states army still issues bandits. this is the m9 bayonet. it is a multi-tool. it is pretty ingenious because there is a whole in the blade and you can use the case as a wire cutter. i am sure some of you may have used it. i love the fact that they now have a danger, don't cut yourself, on the bayonet. >> [laughter] would think that is self-evident. so that is generally my talk

bayonetsil war and the . i thank you, and i am ready to take any of your questions. so people who didn't understand the ban that, they were missing the point. >> [laughter] are there any question start a -- are there any questions? used -- whenis that is used when it come out of the bodies, or would it stay. musketsme of the early had flaring muscles -- muzzles. when they see it in there, the

friction is pretty secure. but i would imagine that that would also be a problem. again, they did not stick around very long. i think they were pretty limited. some of those really early ,rills using the plug bayonets they are very slow moving. there is a point where you hold the bayonet over your head for you apply it. you are showing the enemy, i am going to stab you with this thing. but yes, the socket bayonet was much superior. >> other questions? any comment on the construction of the bayonet? it was not always around. dana: it was a trapezoid.

it looked essentially like a triangle. one of the developments between the 18th century in the 19th century, they are minor, but the shank gets shorter and figure for strength and they increase the length of the blood groups -- blood grooves which are inset, rounded so that they will basically slide in and out more efficiently. if they were flat there is more tendency for friction to hold them in place in the body. that is one of the biggest changes. wide,o from fat, very they get narrower. >> other questions? a question about the magazine. person who a

basically spends his day looking at civil war stories, tell me a little bit about that. what is it like to be a person who is spending his career telling civil war stories? dana: it is very interesting. i don't read civil war stuff anymore. that is one thing that has happened. iread so much at work -- still love going out on the battlefield, i still get great enjoyment out of that. but i got the first issue when i was a kid, january, 1972. my parents got me in for my birthday that year. i did not go to college with a great plan. >> [laughter] dana: that is one of the reasons i like grant so much. he goes to college because he likes to travel. i kind of identified with that. i sort of stumbled through

undergraduate. i like history. then i got my act together and got a masters degree. i started a phd and did not finish that. my wife and i moved out east. i got a freelance job with time life through living history because i knew the recently deceased editor and he helped me get this job as a freelancer. somehow i ended up the editor of "civil war times." it is fascinating to see the changes that have taken place since i have been on the masthead. one of the things is, there are more and more women writing. if you look at the table of agoents even eight years you don't see any women on the table of contents. -- of course i am drawing a blank. there was just a book on

sherman's march. a lot of women are writing and i think that is great. that is a big change that i see. i will tell you something. seen even before this black issue came along -- this flag issue came along, and uptick in really angry letters. i have been accused of being politically correct, which to me is a meaningless term. i have been accused of being a southern sympathizer, so i guess i am getting it from both sides. maybe i am cutting it down the middle and doing something right. it seems to me that with the , the civil warl kind of became more contentious. it was more that is. .- it was more in the news

some of the changes we are experiencing in our culture brought out a lot of anger. i don't put that in the letters but it is pretty interesting to be able to do that. for methe great things has been to get to meet people like you and john coming here in the foreground and just how many people are out there working in really diverse facets of the civil war? even though this is well plowed ground, we have been reading about the civil war and writing about it more and it. i feel amazed at how much fresh material is still coming in. people are still churning out there and finding really great stuff.

>> how do you see the interest amount young -- among young people in history of the civil war? >> it's interesting. i for some reason no a lot of 20-year-olds and early 30-year-olds that are really into the civil war. know -- maybe it's just me, but i don't know as many 40-year-olds that are into it. i don't know if it took a skip or something but this is not scientific. i could be totally wrong. i can name 30 or 40 people, men and women in that 20 to 30-year-old age group that are

really into the civil war. they experiencing it through print journalism? not so much unfortunately. frankly, magazines are challenged by the internet and other mediums through which they can get their civil war fix. i don't see the interest going away. there are a lot of young people i do see interested in one place. >> do you see a particular interest in military versus social versus economic? inking of,le i'm there are a lot of women involved. i will tell you what -- just , using reenactors because a lot of these younger people are into reenacting and living history. they are more social history

oriented than i was when i began reenacting. the battles and s.e generals and campaign they do a lot of military stuff, but they do a lot of military stuff as well. he knows some of these same folks -- do you think i'm -- am i making any sense here? >> i think we are ok. we regularly have young kids coming into the park who know more than their parents know about the civil war and recently, and the last year, i had a kid from australia who was 11 and he dragged his mom across america and got on a plane and

spent four months in america to see all of the civil war battlefields. so the interest is not just in this country. always ranged from young people to elderly people, to everyone in between. dana: there is civil war living history being done in places like germany. it's interesting to see the people who are into it. >> [inaudible] dana: thank you for saving me from trying to sound intellectual and foolish. trying to say something about the different perhaps point their views, i want to hear more about that.

if they bringknow a different point of view. a lot of people i know are civiliand into the aspect of the civil war. we have a lot of women on that facebook page and i will put up a post of a cannon and the women are commenting with it. leslie gordon wrote a book on the 16th connecticut which got devastated at the battle of antietam and how they dealt with this horrible incident and how they crafted their military experience so they were not looked at as cowards. aboutnelson has written ruins and destruction in the south, so it's not like every woman historian is writing about the home front. think is really

cool. to be honest with you, and this is being filmed, so who knows, something might come back and want me but i think male historians are being given a run for their money. maybe it is a mistake and i shouldn't even be looking at them as female historians, just viewing them as historians, but gender,e going to use there are a lot of people doing research coming up with pretty interesting concepts and really digging into the sources and seem really passionate about it. if there's anything i want to leave people with, it's don't let controversies like this battle flag controversy dismay you about your passion for the civil war. it is unfortunate that we have these controversies, but some of

the people don't really care about the civil war controversy, but i know a lot of people that do care about it. friends mentioned in , he hadcle, lars ancestors who started a confederate army and he said i can't help feel some sense of american pride. i can understand the battle flag is offensive. i said don't lose your passion for history of the time or your interest in it. we will all get through this and it will work out. don't turn your back on this time that you're so interested in and care about so much. that is my overarching philosophical comment to send you off into the night or at least go get a beer because i am

parched. [applause] >> you are watching american history tv -- 48 hours of programming on american history every weekend on c-span3. follow us on twitter at c-span history for history on our schedule of upcoming programs and to keep up with the latest history news. >> he was a knotty -- he was a nazi, he was a concentration camp commandant and he was responsible for the murder of thousands of jews. >> tonight, jennifer tiga on her life altering discovery that her grandfather was the nazi concentration camp commandant known as the butcher of class l -- of placau.

>> he was a tremendously cool person.- cruel he had two dogs and he trained them to tear humans apart. i think this sums it up really good. pleasure he felt when he killed people. when youomething that are normal, if you don't have this aspect in your personality, it's very difficult to grasp. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's "q&a." next, deborah henson, a virginia commonwealth art history professor, talks about images of george washington in the capitol rotunda. and explains how they convey a sense of national unity, power and historical memory. the u.s. capital historical

society hosted this 50 minute program. debra: as the restoration of the dome of the u.s. capital advances towards its projected completion date, the temporary alterations to its iconic appearance provoked reflection on the varied meaning within the realms of american political, cultural, and aesthetic discourse, past and present. despite the current political discord, a structure that has long visualized aspiration, whether in a civic or religious context, conveys a sense of national unity and shared historic memory. these ideas are reiterated