if you could again -- and i know you already said it, but in your past obviously you did perform abortions and then at some point in your life you decided not to do that anymore. couldcould you share again what it was the made that change for you? >> it was a loss of my own adopted daughter. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> you indicated, would you want to share some of the stories of other women?

there is actually to victims. there is also the woman who has been a victim often times in a planned parenthood facility, but could you share in the brief time i have left anything you would like to say that the other women? >> i have heard a lot today about safe abortions. >> we are not having safe abortion in this country. they are not able to have there own children because of it. why are we talking about why

this is not safe. these are the stories to tell it, and it would be more if women were not too ashamed to ashamed and afraid to come out ofand talk about this and sometimes it does not happen for years. their women they will be up to talk about it for tenten and 20 years command i heard multiple stories, hundreds of how they have been maimed and wounded in every way. i cannot -- it was hard for me to even bond with my own child that i adopted because of this procedure. i am just begging for you people to protect women. this is notthis is not a good choice for women. protect us. do the right thing. instead of looking at pocket books i would like to ask the committee how many people are receiving

donations which saddens my heart. would you choose that are protecting women? >> thank you very much. i yield back my time. >> the children from tennessee is recognized for five minutes. >> when mr. franks made a comment about a bill on the floor three or four weeks ago, on that same day there was another bill to fund planned parenthood. and no one on this side voted for them. he is right, and they did not come to the subcommittee and they did not get to the full committee for markup or for hearing because regular order did not apply because the pope was going to be here, andhere, and we wanted to put the focus on this

issue because it was politics. if there is a bill, this is show business hearing. it went straight to the floor, no amendments allowed. just like benghazi was politics, had accomplices purpose of hurting the woman >> with the gentleman yield? >> no, i won't. he admitted but they were doing. this is the same deal. there is not any evidence that there has been any law violated and yet we have a special committee. you admitted that your video had nothing to do with planned parenthood.

>> it was not shot on planned parenthood. >> he did not to eight years. >> medical ethics lost there medical license? the know of anyone who lost a medical license? no? >> no. >> and the you? >> i do not. >> medical ethics, case closed. second question.

>> and i am sorry for your problems of history. your 1st abortion was a planned parenthood. where was your your 2nd? >> in the goldmans clinic. >> in your 3rd? >> i believe it was at am a goldman. >> they do the same types of procedures there. >> this hearing is about planned parenthood. you now have a not-for-profit. what is the name? >> cornerstone for life. >> do you draw a salary? >> i geti get a stipend. >> and that is? >> a thousand dollars a month. >> and you are considered a christian speaker. >> usually i do not get paid

the fact is, this hearing is just like benghazi, the select committee on planned parenthood made his politics. the whole idea that this is about planned parenthood is wrong and doctor levantine it has admitted there is no evidence of any medical, ethical impropriety, only a title it has been put up your. one 3rd of her history is planned parenthood it is unfortunate that this is how we're spending our time. perform by planned parenthood and happy medicaid reimburses them.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. >> please be careful using this. we didn't get into the practices, the fetal body tissue issues. we were very narrowly focused on the finances. the.we were making is that planned parenthood had revenue of 127 million more. we started to look at a

nonprofit organization is what people are making and how they were spending that money. theythey were spending money and giving it to political organizations, have a lot of shared services. i think that is a legitimate question as we look at the finances of organization that is structured as a nonprofit organization. i was asked a direct question about the finances. thatthat is the way i took the question given the direction and drive of the hearing. did we find any wrongdoing? the answer was no. in one moment it is inappropriate to suggest that i have come to some grand conclusion that every part of the operation. we did subpoena the video. we have some of those videos in a safe. we have jointly worked with the democrats on that.

we had a court ruling earlier this week to get the rest of those videos. there was a temporary restraining order in california that would not release his videos. the judge recently ruled in our favor in the videos are being sent to congress. i will work with elijah cummings and figure out the best course home what to do. but just caution to members that it is a bit of a stretch to say that i have done some conclusive investigation. did i look at the finances, yes. it is a legitimate question to all of us. why do we send money to an organization were revenue exceeds expenses?

that does not sound like an organization that needs to be supplemented by taxpayer dollars. >> yield for a question. >> i just want to ask whether or not you have any evidence in that planned parenthood has broken the law? >> the video that has been out there, the rumors 11 swirling with the testimony causes a lot of people to legitimately ask and dive into whether or not what they're doing is illegal. it is a legitimate question from an objective.of view, and so ii think they will continue to be investigations. i voted in favor which does have to go further and dive deeper into those issues, but i don't think that the final chapter has been written all this criticism.

that is so false. the 1st not-for-profit organization was the nfl. i called out the nfl. they restructured and for the 1st time they are now no longer a not-for-profit organization.a not-for-profit organization. in a very bipartisan way with elijah cummings and the democrats we worked on that issue and made a major transformation, major change and looking at another not-for-profit organization and is taking hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money, legitimate decision in the context of an 18 plus trillion dollar debt which is a discussion we had, proud of it. with that, i yield back.

>> the chair thanks the gentleman. >> would you mind me having a look. >> while she is coming down to do that let me ask doctor levantine question. is there any circumstance under which you agree that a woman should have a right to have an abortion to abort a fetus that was eroding from incest or rape? >> if i were a congressman. >> you support a law that would ban. >> not been come allow. >> you believe that a woman should have a right to choose.

>> all the same morally have a great problem with that. politically i would vote for such a law. >> heartbeat at 21 days. it's never okay to have an abortion. we have 57 million missing people. >> you went to work at planned parenthood terminating pregnancies. >> i started as a clinic assistant. >> you are a woman who was fired by planned parenthood.

>> you love planned parenthood. >> do you believe that they should be defunded? >> indeed i do. brought with fraud. >> thank you. >> you have a lawsuit pending. >> a whistleblower case. if you when you make a lot of money. >> we never really talked about that. >> you will make a lot of money if you went can't take it from me. >> i don't need a lamborghini. i don't know what i would do with that. >> money does not matter.

>> right. time the truth is what matters. >> okay. well, as far as you know planned parenthood does not make political contributions, does it? >> i have no idea what contributions it makes? >> or if they do. they don't, do they? >> i am not familiar with the entire corporate structure. >> doctor, are you aware of the stories of the many women whose lives have literally been saved by planned parenthood? >> in what way? >> that is a my question. are you aware of that being the case? >> are attached to the question without knowing in what context you are asking it. >> how about you?

>> i would ask the same question. >> ii do you don't want to answer the question. well, you have not heard about the story of tiffany who was so broke she cannot afford a regular dr. visit the plan parenthood was her only option than that of routine pap smear that planned parenthood diagnosed her with cervical cancer. the early discovery of which saved her life. have familiar? >> i would ask how much money they ask after the dinner pap smear. >> am sure it was the -- levy payable. >> it could not be more than the value of her life. >> if she would have gone to a federally qualified health center. >> maybe she could not have gotten conversation.

>> in my town is four blocks. >> there are other people at different circumstances. shouldn't you be concerned about them? >> are 20 free clinics for everyone planned parenthood. theythey are everywhere. >> and the purpose of this hearing was to shut down planned parenthood because of abortion. >> the time of the gentleman has expired. the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. gomer, for five minutes. would you yield back to me briefly? >> yes. >> i just want to stay for the record regarding the., in the state of georgia there are for planned parenthood locations, most or all of which provide abortion services. therethere are 274 other healthcare alternatives that provide women services that do not provide abortion. in terms of convenience of location, they would be a

good argument that there is much more convenience to get to healthcare facilities, public health care facilities that do not include abortion services. >> thank you. i think there was some effort to cast doubt on your capabilities that it has been working for planned parenthood since you were not an attorney. i doi do not know how many attorneys we have running planned parenthood facilities, but i hope that there are not many. >> there is typically one per affiliate. >> really? one lawyer for planned parenthood affiliate? >> they do lobbying and run the pack the political action committee. >> they have a pack? and how many mammograms to those do? >> they do not do mammograms

>> if we cut federal funding for planned parenthood across the country how many women would be denied mammograms? >> zero. >> but if we cut funding they're would be lawyers the do lobbying and some people that get political donations money and financing. >> my friend indicated it was a myth that it would provide services and yet when we here the actual facts it turns out while, if

we provided the money directly to healthcare facilities that do nothing but help women with the full range of services for women, including mammograms and things that planned parenthood never does, it sounds like that women would have even better services, more services even though a lot of parts were break for the lawyers that would not be able to get the federal funding and be able to lobby and donate to our democratic friends. i was so pleased with the comment from my friend from genesee the benghazi was politics. that is exactly what we have been trying to get to. it was politics. you had people meeting here in america in washington

while people were dying, while time was was gathering david evans anglin dority and going to the rooftop to man guns to try to protect the people in those facilities. yes, benghazi was about politics. and ii would love to know what the president was doing that night. if i have people that worked for me i cannot go to bed. it apparently there was plenty of rest before he went to the fundraiser in las vegas the next day. yes, my colleague is right. it was about politics, and politics command we need to get to the bottom of why those people were killed while no one in washington that knew what was going on lifted a finger he is on a

gurney, and they are beating his leg blown off against the side of the little plane someone in washington those that are doing nothing. you bet it was politics. we need to say yes. that was politics, and we need to find out why it was so political set of coming together as americans in protecting those people. my time is expired. >> the chair recognizes gentleman from florida for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it is remarkable to me that

the two most important issues to the majority of our collided and one hearing now one of four committees investigating planned parenthood. what are we investigating? no one said this, but we need to be clear about it. the goal of the majority is to return to a nation where rove the way it is not the law of the land and women do not enjoy the constitutional right at the supreme court make clear they have to make decisions about there own body. now, i don't know why we are here. we arethey are not here to talk about the fruitless investigations undertaken by six different states that have failed to find any legal wrongdoing, not here to discuss the merits of fetal tissue donation given that the knew -- new england

journal of medicine growth in every person in this country have benefited command we are not here to discuss a federal court order issued this week mandating the center for medical progress turnover more of its misleading and fraudulent documentation. the only purpose is to smear a healthcare provider that enjoys aa higher approval rating among the american people than i would guess any member in this body enjoys. as this committee contemplates medical ethics of women's reproductive freedoms i asked this question, the medical ethics of not holding any hearings on aa gun violence epidemic the claims the lives of 30,000 americans every year for the medical ethics of not holding a hearing on the 12,000 homicides and accidental gun deaths and 18,010 deaths by suicide,

and the medical ethics of states trying to bend pediatricians from discussing basic gun safety measures with parents? this house judiciary committee has held zero hearings. nor has this committee held hearings on the deadly mass shootings have inflicted so much grief and committee. not after santa barbara, and there have been none scheduled after roseburg. not after any of the mass shootings that have occurred. october is domestic violence awareness month. more than 1600 women were murdered my men. while this committee continues its redundant attacks over women's health command ignores the reality that every day american women are murdered future domestic gun violence. it is congress works to ensure that women face even more humiliating obstacles

violent offenders are still able to skirt background checks and get guns to commit horrific crimes. the american people already frustrated. even the most basic action. this committee have there jurisdiction, this one, judiciary committee. there is a bipartisan public safety and second amendment protection act introduced by congressman thompson and king them close gun sale loopholes with comprehensive background checks for all purposes. the tracethe trace act that empowers law enforcement to stop the flow of guns to streets. congresswoman maloney's maloney's legislation to lift the ban on federal research on gun violence, my own legislation , the safe and

responsible transfer act. not one of those bills, not want has been the subject of a hearing from this committee, not even a hearing with the majority can bring in witnesses to tell us why bipartisan supported and is somehow to extreme. that has not been a single hearing on any commonsense improvements to gun laws. the american people are frustrated with congress. the time for silence on this issue is over. at the beginning of the hearing today one of my colleagues talked about the self-imposed blindness, self-imposed blindness. that is a self-imposed blindness that congress has to gun violence. the humanity of the victims he hopes becomesbecome so glaring that it moves an entire generation of the

american people. i can only hope that the humanity of the victims of the thousands the tens of thousands of lives lost my move this congress to finally take action. i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. chair recognizes the gentleman from idaho. i would like to say that there are right now on the books hundreds of federal gun control laws and regulations and yet in the last six years the enforcement, the prosecutions for violations of all those laws are down by 30 percent. it seems to me that an administration led by an individual who calls for more laws every time we have one of the strategies ought to go look in the mayor and determine what is appropriate. >> will the gentleman yield.

>> i will not. it is a problem that can be addressed with the laws that exist now.

members of congress are on a week long break. members are in their home districts or traveling. during the week, both the house and senate will hold occasional pro-forma sessions. in the senate monday, october 19th work resumes in the house tuesday, october 20th. you can watch the senate live on c-span2 and the house on c-span.

on the next "washington journal," viveca novak on the money spent on capitol hill by gun control advocates and gun rights groups. margo thorning of the american counsel for capitol formation and tyson slom discuss the house vote to end the ban on crude oil exports. and reporter ron kesler discusses allegations that the secret service retaliated against congressman jason chaffetz by leaking a confidential personnel files. "washington journal" live with your phone calls 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. on saturday, live coverage of the 20th anniversary of the million man march. taking place on the national mall. the theme is justice or else. lewis farahkan is scheduled and the president of the naacp brooks and al sharpton are also

expected to speak. you can watch live starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. and i think every first lady should do something in this position to help the things she cares about. i just think that everything in the white house should be the best, the entertainment that's given here. the art of children is the same the world over. and so, of course, is our fe feeling for children. i think it is good in a world where there's quite enough to divide people that we should cherish a language and an emotion that unite us all. >> jacklyn kennedy's 1,000 days as first lady were defined in images as political spouse, young mother, fashion icon and advocate for the arts. as television came of age ultimately the tragic images of president kennedy's assassination and funeral that cemented her in the public mind. this sunday night at 8:00 p.m.

eastern on c-span's original series "first ladies: inflounce and image" examining the public and private lives of the women that filled the position of first lady from martha washington to michelle obama. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span3. next, fbi director james comey, homeland security secretary jeh johnson and national counter terrorism center director james rasmussen testify about national security. this is about two hours.

good morning. this hearing will come to order. i want to first of all welcome our distinguished panel here, our witnesses. thank you for your time, thank you for your thoughtful testimony. thank you for your service to this nation. when i took over chairmanship of this committee, was it about ten months ago, first thing i did is i reached out to senator carper, another person of real integrity, and i suggested we do something maybe a little unusual for a senate committee. we develop admission statement. that's my business and manufacturing background and so we came up with one that's pretty simple. it's simply to enhance the

economic and national security of america. i think that accomplished two things. first of all, it starts our relationship as a ranking member and chairman and as committee on an area of agreement. it also directed the activity of our committee so the other thing we did is we established -- we have two committees in one. homeland security and then government affairs but on the homeland security side and that's what this hearing is all about, we established some basic priorities. and not in any particular order, we established five. border security. cyber security. protecting our critical infrastructure including the electrical grid. doing whatever we can to counter violent extremisextremists, isl terrorists who, director, in your testimony you say is growing and then our fifth priority for the secretary and including you gentlemen, as well. committing this committee to

help you achieve your goal, your mission of keeping this nation safe. so again, i want the thank you for your service. it's exactly what this committee's trying to do. your testimony which i have reviewed, basically follows right down what our list of priorities are. these threats that we face in the nation are real. they're not diminishing, not receding. they're actually growing. and so i know you are -- again, three men of integrity. that take your duties and responsibilities very seriously. so again, i thank you for that. i'm certainly locking forward to your testimony. i want to thank the senator that is are here. i'm looking for a very informative hearing w. that i'll turn it over to senator carp. >> thanks much, mr. chairman. i want to start off by just calling an audible here. i was thinking coming down, secretary jackson, on the train, in the last couple of weeks we have been visited by pope francis up and down the east coast. all over the place.

millions of people involved. folks with him. we have been visited by the president of china, president xi. big entourage. up in new york city, united nations, leaders of maybe over 70 countries visited our country, new york city. the u.n. the thing to me that's remarkable about all this and i think you are going to touch on this in your testimony, but want to just add a word, as well. you know, when the secret service screws up and they have we call them on it. and when people make mistakes, there needs to be accountable. you believe in that and we do, as well. and the pope's visit, visit of president xi, visit of all those 70 national leaders who came to our country for it to come off without a hitch, without a hitch is just amazing. it's just amazing. and it gives me some encouragement that folks of the secret service, mostly whom hard

working want to do the right thing and every day and better days lie ahead. they didn't do that by themselves. entities this dhs, state and local law enforcements and as we say in the navy, somebody does a job well, bravo zulu. bravo zulu. since 9/11, the most i guess acute terrorist threats came from osama bin laden. today bin laden's dead. al qaeda is largely dismantled. fortunately, fortunately isis and al qaeda affiliates in yemen and syria filled the void. the taxes they use against us and others have changed. isis in particular has perfected as we know using social media to spread propaganda and recruit members to the ranks. we can no longer rely on military force. we must identify the root causes of why westerners join the ranks

of isis and tailor tackics and that's no easy task. we will have to improve our ability to counter violent extreme i. i commend the secretary for establishing a new office at the department focused on countering violent extremism. moreover, if we are to be truly successful, among other things remind the world of the principles and value that is our country stands for. we have a long history of granting refuge to the war weary. we have a moral obligation by taking a reasonable amount of syrian refugee. matthew 25, when i was hungry, did you feed me? i was thirsty did you get me a drink? did you visit me? when i was a stranger in your land, did you take me in? there's a moral imperative and not blind to this really awful

situation that's faced by all these millions of syrian refugees but also to realize that there's a smart way for us to play a role. we are doing a huge role financially. leader among the nations of the world providing aid to -- emergency aid to the folks displaced a tlen's a tension here between how do we be consistent with matthew 25 the least of these and a way to protect us from extremists to infill yate our country. the other thing is cyber security. came from a meeting of the bunch of folks at the capitol and we took a little bit of time and i said every one of you take 15 seconds and tell whaus you think should be a priority between now and say christmas. and they had basically two answers. one was don't let the government shut down. come up with a reasonable budget. that meets the nation's needs in a sustainable way. the other thing is cyber security, cyber security. we have the opportunity. we'll working here under the leadership of our chair, lot of

folks on the committee to do just that. to make it possible, last congress for dhs to have the tools they need to do a better job. you are doing a better job. we applaud you for that and focus on information sharing, doing it in a smart way that incentivized folks to share their information with the federal government and the federal government send realtime. comes through the dhs portal realtime. you share it with everybody else so there's no loss of time. so those are the kind of things to take einstein, build on it and put it on steroids and i think you're doing a lot of good things in your department, mr. secretary, to help build on those tools. last thing i want to say is this. two weeks ago maybe senator johnson and i were invited you with tom ridge, former governor, with whom i served as governor, invited us to pennsylvania. it was a day i will never forget

and i just want to thank you again for that. it reminds us again of what can happen, when bad people want bad things to happen in your country. we have to be on guard, ever vigilant and reminds me of the strength and the courage of the 40 people on that plane who refused to go down without a fight. refused to go down without a fight and i'll always remember them, be grateful to them and for you for reminding us on that special day of service and the values of this country are truly about. thank you. >> thank you, senator carper. i would also like to thank secretary johnson for inviting us. the moment that stuck out in my mind. you gave a great speech, everybody did. was when they're describing what those passengers did. the almost the final act is something quintessentially american. they took a vote. so that i would recommend anybody who hasn't gone to shanksville, most people probably haven't.

go there. there's a powerful panel there where we have phones where you can listen to three amazing voice mail messages from the people on that plane concerned far more about their loved ones they're leaving behind than themselves. something quintessential american. with that, it is the tradition of this committee to swear witnesses in so if you all rise and raise your right hand. do you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? thank you. our first witness is secretary jeh johnson, secretary johnson, fourth secretary of department of homeland security. prior the leading the dhs, secretary johnson served as general counsel for the department of defense, general counsel of the department of air force and assistant u.s. attorney for the district of new

york. senat jake jo secretary johnson. >> thank you. as you mentioned, we attended a sobering ceremony in shanksville, pennsylvania. today, 14 years after 9/11, it is still a dangerous world. the events of 9/11 were the most prominent and devastating example of terrorist attacks by those who are recruited, trained and directed overseas and exported to our homeland. the 9/11 hijackers were acting on the orders from al qaeda's external operations chief ka lead shaikh mohammed who was in turn carrying out the direction of osama bin laden. like wise, the attempted shoe bomber and underwear bomber in 2009, the attempted times square car bombing in may 2010 and the attempted package bomb plot in october 2010 were all efforts to export terrorism to the united

states. and they all appeared to have been direct bid a terrorist organization jefr seas. the response to these types of a attacks and attempts attacks was and is to take the fight directly to the terrorist organizations at locations overseas but today the global terrorist threat is now more decentralized, more complex and in many respects harder to detect. the new reality involves the potential for smaller scale attacks by those who are either home grown or home based not exported and who are inspired by but not necessarily directed by a terrorist organization. today, it is no longer necessary for terrorist organizations to personally recruit, train and direct operatives overseas and in secret and export them to the u.s. to commit a terrorist attack. today, with new and skilled use of the internet, terrorist organizations may publicly

recruit and inspire individuals to conduct attacks within their own homelands. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula no longer hides the fact that it builds bombs. it publicizes its instruction manual in its magazine and publicly urges people to use it. today, we're also concerned about foreign terrorist fighter who is are answering public calls to leave their home countries in europe and elsewhere to travel to iraq and syria and take up the extremist fight there. many of these individuals will seek to return to their home countries with the same extremist motive. the recent wave of terrorist attacks and attempted attacks here and in europe w reflect this new reality. the boston marathon bombing in april 2013, the attack on the war memorial and the parliament building in ottawa in october 2014, the attack on the charity hebdo headquarters in paris in january 2015, the attempted attack in garland city, texas,

in may 2015 and the attack that killed five u.s. service members in chattanooga, tennessee, july 2015, what does this recent wave of attacks and attempted attack vs in common? they're all conducted by home dproun or home based actors and they all appear to be inspired and not directed by al qaeda or isil. we're concerned about domestic terrorism in the form of a lone wolf which can include various aspects of domestic terrorism such as right-wing extremism, as well. we devote substantial efforts to the study and understanding of these threats and will continue to further our understanding of the underpinnings of terrorist threats of all forms. what we're doing about it i hope to discuss in further detail during the q and a. it's set forth in my prepared remarks and i will not elaborate that here. what i will conclude by saying is basically two points.

one, i applaud both the house and the senate for the good work that has been done on cyber security legislation. i applaud the fact that it's been bipartisan. as senator carper noted, i believe that there is an urgent need for help from this congress in the area of cyber security. the need for cyber security legislation has in my judgment been aptly demonstrated just over the last 12 months with some of the things we have seen so i hope that the house and senate can come together, pass legislation, go to conference and have that legislation become law. the last thing i'll say is that homeland security is part of national security. it is the front line of national security. our job is much more difficult to protect the american people if congress does not repeal sequestration. we simply cannot deliver for the american people all of the

homeland security that they need and want if we have to work with a sequestered budget. so i urge congress in as strong of terms as i can to consider repealing sequestration. thank you. >> thank you, secretary johnson. i will say i continue to press leadership to bring cyber security on the floor of the senate. i think we have that commitment. i think you will see that hopefully within the next couple of weeks and success of that will largely depend on us all working together as we have in the past. it is amazing what you can accomplish if you concentrate on what you agree on, the things that join us. cyber security is a thing we agree on. i'm hopeful of it with your help and with senator carper's and everybody on this committee. our next witness is director james comey, director comey is director of the federal but owe of investigation, also served as the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, deputy attorney general for the department of justice and general counsel for

organizations in the private sector. director comb my? >> thank you. thank you for the this opportunity to appear before the committee. especially with my two friends and colleagues here with whom we do so much work to try to protect the american people. i'm grateful for their partnership. i don't -- i won't repeat the written statement for the record and i think jeh captured well the challenge we face. his description of a new reality is dead on and i simply want to amplify it because it bares stressing. a lot of us are still thinking about the terrorism threat through the air pa ra dime of what i call your parent's al qaeda and i think it's very important the american people understand how things have changed and i just want to spend a brief moment on that. isil has broken the core al qaeda pair dime using social media to broadcast a twin pronged call to thousands and thousands of followers around the world, including many, many feem in the united states.

they send two messages. first, come to the caliphate and participate in the final battle between good and evil on god's side. and find meaning in your life. second, if you can't travel, kill where you are. kill anyone. but especially if you kill people in military uniform or law enforcement uniform and video it, that would be best of all. a message in an entirely new way because it buzzes in the pockets of troubled souls unmoored people all over this country all day long. twitter's worth a lot of money because it's a great way to sell shoes or books or movies and crowd source terrorism. and so isil started investing in this in the middle of 2014 and earlier this year we saw the payoff on an investment in hundreds of investigations in all 50 states of people who are on some path between consuming this poison and responding to it by either traveling to so-called caliphate or killing where they are. and so the challenge we face,

the folks at this table, is finding those needles in a nationwide haystack and assessing where are they on that spectrum of consuming and octobering on poison and disrupting them before they act? it is harder still. not just a nationwide haystack looking for needles but what isil's been doing over the last year is finding a live one, someone who might be willing to kill where they are, they move them off of twitter where we can see the communications lawfully and move them to an end to end mobile messaging app that's encrypted and the needle disappears on us once it's most dangerous and with a court order, the way we collect the content of communications in the united states, we get a court order, we cannot see when's being said between the recruiter and someone who would kill where they are. this is a big problem, an illustration of the problem of going dark. it illustrates to people the conflict that we're experiencing

in this country of two values we all hold dear. safety and security on the internet. all right? i can assure you secretary jo johnson and i are big fans of encryption. it protects what matters to us most. but the other value is public safe safety. we must protect the people of the united states and find the needles and stop them before they kill. we must find child predators, kidnappers, drug dealers. those values we hold dear are crashing into each other. i don't know what the answer is. but as i keep telling folks, the fbi is not an alien force on folks from mars. we belong to the american people. our tools are only those tools the american people give us through you. and i think my job is to tell folks when one of the tools you're counting on us to use to protect you is not working so much anymore, we have to talk about that. and so, there's been a lot of conversation, very productive, the administration has decided not to seek a legislative remedy

now. but that it makes sense to continue the conversations that we're having that are very productive because here's the thing. people in industry are good folks. they share those same values. and they're working with us to figure out how could we solve this problem and talking to industry, we're talking to state and local law enforcement, we are talking to foreign partners because everybody who cares about these two values has to be involved this conversation. there's no clear answer. an important start is to remove the venom and understand we share values, we care about protecting people. we care about safety and security on the internet. how do we maximize both values? it is a really hard thing but i think america does hard, especially when it implicates our most fundamental values. i thank the members of the committee on this issue and the partners at the table and we'll continue the conversation with the american people. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, director. next witness is director nicolas rasmussen, director rasmussen is director of the national counter terrorism center nctc.

director rasmussen previously served as the deputy director of nctc and various functions on the national security counsel staff and key positions within the department of staff. director rasmussen? >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, senator carper. like secretary johnson and director comb my, i welcome the opportunity today to have a good, thoughtful conversation with the committee. before the threat picture in greater detail i want to stress how well and closely aligned we at nctc are at dhs and fbi. we see the threat environment the same way. we share information. we collaborate with a very intense way for analysis to support the operations. i'll start with the good news. from an analytic perspective, the chances of a spectacular large-scale attack here in the homeland by an overseas terrorist group along the lines of what they described is reduced over the last several years and achieved that outcome through aggressive ct action in south asia and other places

around the world. but also, through the creation of a robust homeland security and counter terrorism infrastructure here in the homeland that we have developed as a community over the last decade. and while we can look with some degree of satisfaction at the work done to reduce that threat of a large-scale mass-casualty attack, there's still quite a lot to be concerned about secretary and director mentioned and that landscape is some ways more challenging than ever. it's also clear that the terrorist operating paradigm shifted and trying to disrupt threats to the homeland. today there are many threats of many places and a disparate set of individuals than any time previously. let me spell out what i mean by that and highlight ear why is of focus and concern. i'll start with isil. the islamic state in iraq and the la vant. isil has overtaken al qaeda as the leader of the extremist

movement an enthe group views itself as being in conflict with the west and that conflict is being played out not just in syria and iraq now, but also, a number of locations around the world where isil declared itself to have established a province offal jeer that, libya, yemen, saudi arabia, afghanistan, nigeria, the caucus region and even potentially in southeast asia, as well. indonesia and perhaps the philippines and that aggressive growth and expansionist agenda has implications for the homeland threat picture and there are three especially concerning features of isil as a terrorist group that make me reach this conclusion. isil's extensive access to extensive resources and that can be measured in terms of manpower, material and money. the second concerning feature of isil is territory control in large portions of iraq and syria and some of the province areas i mentioned a few minutes ago and

a large pool of individuals of western countries, both those who have traveled to iraq and syria an enthose in the home countries and when we look as intelligence professionals for indicators of external operations capability in isil that could threaten the homeland, these are the key features to expect to see and that's of concern. and in his published testimony, secretary johnson alluded to how we're coming to view the threat of isil and the homeland piece of that threat. we are seeing that threat as having isil involved in some ways along a spectrum of activity. at one end of that spectrum we see isolated ridges as director comb my mentioned that draw inspiration of isil's prolific, spectacular use of snocial medi. and the other end of the spectrum, individuals may receive direct guidance and direction of isil me believes and those of leaders in the direction.

this spectrum is very, very, very difficult for us to penetrate and understand because of the collection difficulties that director comb my pointed to a minuting a. more often than not, we see individuals inside the homeland operating between the two ends of that spectrum for a fluid picture that makes it even more challenging for us to get inside of. beyond our intensive focus on isil and the threat to the homeland, though, you would certainly expect that we're continuing to devote attention to al qaeda, its affiliates and nodes around the world. and despite the unrelenting media attention on isil in current days in no respect in no respect at all to downgrade the level of effort and attention on the al qaeda set of threats we face as a nation and asked often to identify number one terrorism concern is, i most often decline to answer because i wouldn't want to suggest that our focus on isil comes at the expense of efforts on al qaeda and other terrorist organizations. specifically, with al qaeda, watching closely for signs of

attack capability is restored ahead of the drawdown in afghanistan and while the core leaders certainly degraded we continue to track and investigate any indications that core al qaeda engaged in plotting activity aimed at the homeland. we know that remains an ambition and intent and we stay on it constantly. in both the statements for the record, both highlighted al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and for good reason. the threat is at the top of the list of priorities given the group's unrelenting focus of u.s. interests and potentially the homeland and potentially the aviation sector. our work in this area made all the more complicated by the difficult situation in yemen at this time. beyond 'em yoshihiko noda we are also watching al qaeda affiliate networks in syria. our efforts to disrupt al qaeda plotting emanating from syria successful in the last several months and some of the most important figures of concern taken off the map and clearly more to be done in this regard

and meantime we are looking very, very closely for any signs of intelligence to give us a hint as to what they're planning. the third and final area of priority focuses the use of opportunity-driven attacks by home grown extremists referred to as hves. in 2009, on average, les than two or three of these incidents a year. by last year the number rose to a dozen and to date this year that number doubled and we are not through the year yet. while it is difficult to put numbers on the precise population of home grown violent extremists here in the united states, there's no doubt it's increased in size over 18 months and you could say that isil has injected new life in the population. isil knows it can have an impact adds the director said motivating people in the locations to act in support of isil carrying out individual attacks even on a modest scale. so as i conclude, i would just like to say that we stress again we continue to work to detect,

defeat and disrupt the full spectrum with isil and just as ardently on the focus on al qaeda and all of its affiliates. i'll stop there, mr. chairman. >> thank you, director rasmussen. obviously, the purpose of this hearing is to highlight these threats, so that as a public we face this new reality. as director and secretary both mentioned. obviously, want to be very concerned about anything classified. but it is extremely important -- secretary johnson, your testimony said, let me repeat, but today the global terrorist threat is decentralized, more complex and harder to detect. director rasmussen, your testimony, the actors around the globe is broader, wider and deeper than any time at 9/11. director comb my, we had a

hearing exploring and highlighting the problem of -- and the sophistication with which isil is utilizing social media. in that hearing we had testimony that said there were at the time somewhere between 46,000 and 96,000 overt isis support accounts. i know twitter is taking some of them down but they just, you know, basically pop up with another name, another handle. you talked about social media, those individuals following isis there and then being moved to encrypted accounts. can you give us some sense of the numbers of people you're concerned about that have been engaged in social media and i do want to talk about your inability to track but how much information do we have in terms of number of people inspired through the social media, the open media where we can track and into encrypted accounts? >> probably the best number to

give in an open setting is dozens. yeah. >> okay. i would also -- as long as i'm talking to you, and i know secretary johnson is also gone into the communities to try to engage the communities. and i know -- this is i don't think classified. i remember hearing in a briefing that the members of the communities themselves think that we have a complete handle on this. that we know who among their midst might be being inspired by isis and completely false. correct? i mean, is that -- would you agree that that's sort of an assessment? >> i do. first of all, i agree with you. i think jeh is a leader on this, getting out there and talking to the good folks. don't want their sons and daughters either going to the caliphate which is a nightmare and dying there or killing people and surrendering their life to a long prison sentence here. the answer is it's a huge

challenge. good people do what good people do is that's write an innocent narrative over troubling facts and say i must be misunderstanding or having a bad day and must not have heard him right and trying to get folks to when the hair stands up, just tell us. all right? tell any police officer, any deputy sheriff. we'll check it out in secret so no one gets smeared and if it's nothing, it's nothing. if it's something you may have saved the life of your child and other people. that's an enormous challenge for us. >> there's a "the new york times" article that described a fbi informant, operative, working really having multiple -- i mean, i think hundreds of conversations with the terrorists from garland, texas, and the fbi spent quite a few -- i think hundreds of thousands of dollars for that fbi operative. talk to me about the effectiveness of that. i'm just putting myself in the position of a parent whose son,

you know, maybe a 20-year-old kid, is being engaged with -- by the fbi, talked about different, you know, the caliphate and all that type of thing and then, all of a sudden, the fbi swoops in and says, did you ever talk about traveling over to syria and the person is brought up on charges, convicted. i think that's a serious concern about is that the best way to engage a community? and have -- based on that, have we rethought that at all? >> we haven't rethought -- we all agree i think that it's important that we try to understand where our folks from this consuming to acting make an assessment and then take it very seriously, especially if they're moving to acts of violent. knowing that we have to do that work, i hope should motivate the good parents of the united states. no one wants their children to go die in the nightmare of the so-called caliphate or be locked

up because they violated the anti-terrorism laws of the united states and so it's just another reason why good parents need to talk to us. need to know what their kids are doing. one of the challenges we all face at parents, i have five children. there's a sense that you want to know where your child's going physically, all right, you want to know if your kid's hajjing out at the mall and don't have a sense of where they are in line which is the entire world and so what we say to people, when you see thing that is are traveling, help us engage and keep kids from getting to a place where they have to be locked up. we have done a lot of work, the three organizations of this table, to try to build environments to intervene early when a parent tells us about a kid, get them the help they need. substance abuse, counseling, religious guidance so they don't have to be somebody we have to lock up. that's an ongoing conversation with the families of the united states. we're making progress. but it's something we have to continue to push on. >> secretary johnson, you have

been a real leader and engaging the communities and i applaud you for that. again, i'm a little concerned about numbers but i'll say i'm surprised if it is only a couple dozen people been inspired in social media and moved to encryption accounts. talk to me about your engagement with the communities but also about your assessment of that number. >> well, first of all, by its the -- by the nature of the existing threat we face, we are concerned about a lot of people who self radicalize essentially by reading things on social media, without necessarily direct communications between somebody in the homeland and somebody overseas. and what we know suggests that before somebody in that situation turns to an act of violence, they're very, very few people in a position to know about it. the parents perhaps. a brother or spouse, somebody

that is living in the immediate home with that person. and so, by the nature of the problem, we don't often have advance opportunity to intradikt, to arrest, to prosecute which is why i think the engagements are so important, to build bridges, lower barriers of suspicion and encourage people in communities. this is your homeland, too. help us help you with public safety. and so, we've been out there doing this. i think we have seen a lot of good reaction. some criticism to our efforts which i think means we know our efforts are having an affect. but just heightened awareness and asking people for their help is fundamental given the nature of the current threat we have. >> just real quick with that, director rasmussen. director comey talked about the balance, the very delicate balance between civil liberties and security and that's where we're always concerned about that. you talked about spectrum.

where are we today in that spectrum in that full trum point of civil liberties and security and why where do we really need to be? >> boy, that's a -- an incredibly complex question and i'm not sure there's a particular point that you are -- that's a resting point on that spectr spectrum. as direct or the comey suggested, we know we are facing significant new challenges in the way we have traditionally collected intelligence to get at our terrorist adversaries. simply put, the kinds of insight we used to come v into the more complex al qaeda linked plotting is not available to us right now. and so, naturally, in that environment, we're going to exhaust every opportunity we can -- every avenue we can think of for new collection opportunities. those will have to be balanced against all of the factors you describe, mr. chairman, and that's an ongoing process and

why i don't think we're at a steady equilibrium along a spectrum. this is as the director said a subject of an ongoing conversation with the private sector and the parts of industry that hold critical nodes of communication and, unfortunately, many of these terrorist actors are exercising their craft on these platforms. i think the good news is that we have opened a conversation. there is a lot of ground to be covered in that conversation without the federal government dictating solutions or as the director said choosing a legislative framework at this point but we are at the front end of this conversation and it has to play out over the period ahead. >> i recognize it's complex. i didn't expect a -- you know, a definitive answer and it's exactly, you know, your answer's exactly right. this is a conversation. this is a discussion we must have. had to be an honest conversation and we have to be looking at the

new reality, the threats we are facing. not on the run. they're growing and we need to be concerned about this and we got to be discussing this and very serious and honest fashion. senator carper? >> let me preface my questions by again just emphasizing how much we appreciate your commitment to our country, commitment to defending us and the hard work you and your team, the teams you lead are doing. on our behalf. i like to talk to my colleagues and talk about what's the secret to long marriage between two people and best answer i ever heard communicate and compromise. i would add a third "c" is collaborate and when i look at the three of us i see communicate, compromise, collaborate embodied. thank you. set a good example for us. our chairman and i and others on the committee like to focus not just addressing symptoms of problems. we are good at that as a nation. we don't look at the underlying or root cause. the senator johnson are doing to lead -- i think senator highcamp

and a couple house colleagues go down with us and go to honduras, maybe guatemala and get a better handle on why tens of thousands of people risk life and limb to get through mexico to get to the border to face an uncertain future. we spend a trillion dollars in the last decade or so trying to stop people from getting in. they're compelling people to come. i'm a big root cause guy. and the cyber attacks directed at our country in recent years, one is chinese and the state -- and they know what's going on. pretending they haven't. but they know full well that their entities within the country trying to steal our seed core to get economic short cuts to prosperity at our excuse and we just pretty much underwrite the cost for them. i want to commend secretary johnson and everybody involved, the president and others involved in convincing the chinese that there's time to

change their ways to mend their ways and i'm not sure what the prosfepects but the agreement that's struck is a very, very encouraging sign. i didn't think we would be able to get that. i applaud there. 's a mechanism going forward i think involves you and the attorney general to build on what's been agreed to to make sure that it's not just to say this and do something else but make sure they do what they're xhilted to do. would you talk a minute about that, please? >> yes. when the chinese were here both for the president's visit and about two weeks before we had very frank conversations about cyber security, about cyber norms that we believe nations should embrace. and there's a lot of good things on paper. the question now becomes whether the chinese will do what they

agreed to do on paper. and so, the way forward will be putting them to the task of having ministerial level conversations with us on a regular basis. we hope to have one before the end of this year. and we're now arranging dates to do that. so time will tell about whether or not the chinese will live up to what they agreed to do. i'm pleased with what is on the paper but actions will speak louder than words in this context. >> all right. thank you. i alluded earlier to pope's message, pope francis's message to us a week or two ago and the focus on the golden rule and matthew 25, the least of these and one of the provisions talks about where were you when i was a stranger in your land? did you welcome me in? and we have i think a moral obligation to do that where we can and look out for those in terrible situations.

we have this need to make sure that as those 10,000 syrian refugees come to our country that they're not embedded by a number of folks of isis and wish us harm and would like to talk about what we can do, will do, to the extent you can in a public forum to make sure the threats are anticipated and appropriately addressed and for a number of you. director comey, secretary johnson, nick. >> well, just to highlight one thing in particular, given the nature of the -- how the terrorist threat has evolved, i think it is incumbent upon us at the federal level to share as much intelligence as we can with state and local law enforcement. i think jim's people do an excellent job at the federal level of detecting, investigateling and intradikting terrorist threats almost on a weekly if not daily basis and

i've been constantly impressed with how their methods have evolved to match the threat. but things like the garland city texas attempted attack highlight it's also critical that we get information out to state and local law enforcement, as well. so that they're aware of what we're seeing. >> mr. comey? >> with respect to the potential of syrian asigh lees coming to the united states -- >> there's a real tension here. we're trying to do the right thing and same time trying to do the other right thing. >> yeah. it is something that we have learned how to do better, screening people. the experience we have we didn't do it as well as we should have in the mid-2000 with iraqi refugees and more effective as a law enforcement intelligence

national security community at screening folks. that said, there is no such thing as a no-risk enterprise and there are things, there are deficits that we face. i'm not comfortable talking about them in an open session. i don't know what the bad guys -- >> i understand. >> that's how i sum it up. >> all right. >> senator if i could. >> please. >> with regard to syrian refugees in particular, i agree totally with what jim said. we should do the right thing by accepting more but we have got to be careful in doing it. we have improved the process for vetting from a security standpoint the refugees who are admitted in this country and i'm committed to making sure that we maintain that process. >> good. thanks. director comey, you mentioned encryption, back door ways to make sure we protect against terrible crimes and criminals and mentioned a conversation under way. can you tell us a little bit more about this? i think it's real important and i'm sure you do, too. >> we have increasingly

productive, frankly, conversations with industry because i think in part the isil threat focused everybody's minds and understood we are not just making this up. there is a conflict between values we care about safety and security and public safety. and so, industry is not a monolith. there's lot of different vftss and products being ro vided and there are all people that care about the safety of america and also care about privacy, civil liberties and so we're talking to each other about how we could accommodate both values? how could we get in position to abide by a court order. where could we get to you to comply with the court order. that's with the companies and important conversations with our allies around the world who care both about the same values. right? the rule of law and care about safety. public safety. so we're having good conversations with a lot of european allies. how could we together come up with a frame work to make sense,

embrace the rule of law and maximize both values and then last group with state and local law enforcement. this is actually a problem that affects state and local law enforcement. most of you will. because child abuse cases, domestic violence cases, car crash cases, all of the thing that is cops and sheriffs and d.a.s have to work are affected by the encryption option of sophisticated people to a default and so cops and sheriffs trying to figure out where a child went increasingly encountering devices they can't open in w a search warrant and this affects every community in the united states. no simple answer. but it is -- that's what i meant when i said the conversations are ongoing and gotten healthier. people stripped out the venom. not questioning as much as they used to the motives and care about the same stuff. >> yeah. i'll close with this quick note if i can. we're always asking what can we do to help?

this is an important issue and if there's things to be doing on the legislative side, please let us know. >> thank you, senator carper. on the syrian refugees we let in the company, if we set as a number one criteria, family members, dna testing, that would be helpful. plus syrian american families financially responsible and i think it's setting criteria for prioritization of who we let in and helpful. senator tester? >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you all for your sobering testimony. i'm going to start with you, director comey, and the ranking member touched on it about folks being on twitter and then they go dark. and you talked about technology and legality. and you talked about working with the private sector when you responded to the ranking member. the question i have is, do you have adequate resources? this can go across the board, by the way. of these

guys technology wise? >> the answer depend os on a number of things. climbing out of the hole left by the first sequestration. and i don't know if this summer is normal. but we were following dozens of people all over the united states 24/7 and that is only easy on tv. so we had to surge sources from the criminal cases to cover this so folks didn't kill people and woe disrupted a lot of those people. our great colleagues in the military have had success at this. i don't know if what wll