was produced under the supervision and control of cbs news. the firsts after full-scale engagement between u.s. troops and the people's army of vietnam, the vietnam archive at texas tech university interviewed veterans from the battle of ia drang valley. these battles the north vietnamese forces began engaging in guerrilla warfare. the americans, outnumbered by the army, prevailed, but at a heavy cost. inxt, an interview with capta l" freeman, a helicopter who flew his unarmed helicopter into landing zone x-ray to deliver ammunition,

supplies, and to rescue wounded soldiers. commemorating the anniversary of the battle of ia drang valley. major freeman, think you for joining us. i want to ask you about those days. could you tell me about your training for those types of missions? you had to throw some things out the door and improvise. tell me what you bought into the battle. major freeman: experience. i did not have the privilege of training for the assault. by commander did. --my commander did. they trained for two years.

this was a brand-new concept of warfare as far as the army was concerned. i was already an experienced power prior to coming to that organization. for a year in tactical mapping. ford been in south america four years doing the same basic job. host: and you had experience in korea? yes, and i felt the sting of battle when i was very young. host: did being on the ground in , seeing battle in that sense, help you in those days in november, supporting? major freeman: absolutely. i understood war better than when i first encountered it. host: tell me about bruce

crandall. how was he is commander? was afreeman: he tremendous leader, to the point of being a little dangerous. we were coming back in one evening from an operation. we had been inserting troops. we were empty. we renew this one village. we normally receive fire from that village. sayide in on the radio and pilots, take over the flight, follow me freeman. we peeled out from the organization and flew around a village. we landed. i asked why we did that. he was my friend and also my

commander. , atas trying to draw fire which time we could've called in gunships to take care of the problem. i said we could've found other ways to draw fire than that. anway, that is example. host: he was a good leader. how about communication? you'll have to talk to each other when you are flying. major freeman: we work together really well. we were in panama together. he was in costa rica, and i was in nicaragua. we went to advanced engineering schools together. i watched his kids grow up. both of our families grew up together. he is an outstanding individual.

major freeman: with a juno than about--what did you know then about colonel marshall? know freeman: i didn't much. most of the time, we were almost assigned to him as each units, depending on numbers, was assigned to a battalion. i got to know him really well. i am an honorary member of the first in the seventh. calledhe battle, he bruce and i in and made us honorary members. i have a medal. my number is 11. bruce's was 10.

host: what was he like on the field? major freeman: he was firm and believed in training above everything else. when you have that, it makes for a better battle. your soldiers are very disciplined. i compared it to what iran into to what i ran into in korea. i had some soldiers who were not trained. it was an entirely different with aon, to be trained and skilled organization versus one that wasn't. what were your preparations? what were you all expecting? major freeman: i don't think we

expected what we got. suspected there's enemy activity in the area. that suspected activity turned out to be three regiments. they met us. was fired for the first five times we went in. on the fifth one, they arrived. they announced their arrival and really worked us over. host: told me about the first time you'd got fire. major freeman: you almost get complacency. you are doing this for four like, i guess are they went home. suddenly, the open up. --they open up. you begin to reassess your position.

helicopters could not make it back to the pickup some. it was a fierce battle instantly. it was like turning a switch on. host: what was coming at you? major freeman: ak-47's. some machine gun fire. ak-47's. they travel light. occasionally, you would enter an area with light machine guns. you would also run into 51 caliber machine guns. , in the ia drang valley. one knocked a hole in the main rotor blade you could put your fist through.

i expected the fall any minute.- - to fall any minute. let me ask you about operating in that environment. instantaneously very dangerous. yourself, howfor do you continue to fly? you are under orders. you want to support people on the ground. what are you feeling when you are coming in to x-ray and you are really getting into it? major freeman: training. the only difference between a training mission and a combat mission is bullets. always have the mindset that it's more honorable to let the enemy kill you than to kill yourself.

if you get carried away with fear and anxiety of what's happening, you can hurt somebody, including those around you. you make mistakes. stick to your lesson plan. fly the ship at all costs. to the last second. continue to handle your equipment as it is needed to to make a successful approach. that can be pretty tough. terrain and tall trees everywhere. was just a little shorter than a football field. ,ery tight and confining because you have to have some skill, a lot of skill to get in and out of there successfully without damaging the aircraft.

host: was fear a part of your day? major freeman: absolutely. again, youled fear, go back to i cannot change things. i did not expect to survive. and had been in tremendous battles before. who am i to say on the chosen one and will be spared? --i am the chosen one and will be spared? you need skill and need luck. , andlike "texas hold 'em" both of those are involved. they play an equal part, possibly. skill is a must if you will successfully perform the duties

assigned to you and do it safely. to splattera shame a load of troops all over the hill if the mission was to get them into battle. at least let them get in there and let the enemy take care of the problem. host: when did you realize you would probably not survive this? when did you have this realization that i am not going to survive this? i am not the chosen one. did you have that thought? major freeman: i walked down the peer in mobile, alabama. i'd been to war before. i explained to my wife, there is a good chance i won't return. take care of the kids. don't expect any miracles. my oldest brother was with me. he said it must be exciting knowing you're going off to war.

i said yes, i am about to be in in my pants. .e meant well i've never smoked marijuana. get inwant ta high, a 100-ship formation of helicopters. host: tell me about what bruce did. major freeman: it was a normal, supposedly, operation. we prepped the area with artillery. we arrived 30 seconds after the last--hit the-- host: more you down to the earth at that point? major freeman: yes. this was the first landing in that area.

we did this and came charging and. -- charging in. we were surprised no one was firing back at us. so moore and dyland were in the first chopper? major freeman: yes. and a not sure if the names of a lot of them, but there were a number of them, all uniformed. before that, it was guys in pajamas. pc." called them "o they were rice farmers during the day and pc at night. they would go harass americans. host: it gets hot.

you all were beginning to you stillr were landing? major freeman: after the fifth landing, we all left backed the pickup point. morgan andolonel said no more helicopters need to come to the landing zone. i'm a little smarter. i know he had to have ammunition. basic load was 100 rounds per person. it doesn't take long to unload with m-16's. so i knew it wasn't going to work. somebody has to go get people that will survive. without ammunition, the enemy would have killed every member of the organization once they ran out of ammunition.

so we looked our wounds and decided which helicopters could fly and which couldn't. we rearranged the assignment. this will work, this won't. be assigned to the helicopters. -- we assigned the helicopters. after 45 minutes, and the time is kind of blurry, we got a call. need one volunteer to come into landing zone next ray and haul out and bring-- water andbring ammunition." we were talking young, 20-year-old officers. of thed just come out

fierce fight. not a soul moved a muscle. i don't blame any of them. i said, i've got it. i started walking toward my helicopter. it was already loaded. as i crawled in and hit the starter, frank marino, angel kuba, they all started crawling into my helicopter. copilot, who shared my cockpit with me. i said to get out of the helicopter. he said, no, we are crew, we are going with you. i said frank, this will be the longest day of your life. i said it may be the last day of your life. he said i know that. i asked if he was still going.

he said yes sir. 14.5 hours after that, i set it down. camedid this, bruce running out and said i'm going too. i asked what happens to the company when you get zapped? so we joined up in formation, and my last flight was at 10:30 at night. me tell you about the flashlight. his instructor for two years. tests my jobs, one of my was to bury a six cell the ground and turn it on and put it near the side of the runway on a training and turn the light

on and take the helicopter to 1000 feet above terrain and give it to the student and shut the engine down. his job was to do a 360 degree turn. when he stopped, i wanted to see the light shining between his feet. if you didn't do it, you got a pink slip. prepared.ou are --were prepared. major freeman: i was prepared. i wanted to be in total charge of that equipment. talk--ike it almost could make it almost talk. i told bruce i was the greatest helicopter pilot. and he was second. [laughter] major freeman: it was insurance. if you know your machine and had

operated and anything that and anythinge it that comes between, you can identify how to prevent catastrophic failure. off, when you took back how many guys did you have to support? major freeman: it was a 13 minute flight, each direction. hours. 14.5 they put a number of about 30 of actuated. --evacuated. i was in that hospitality room. 20 guys walked up and said without you, i would have died in x-ray. host: so you wait for them to do

their work in the back, unloading, and you go. you are holding in the cockpit. major freeman: never got out. i stood on the skid and took a leak. you never know. come loose a to little later. sometimes, they should the tail rotoroff-- shoot the tail off. lines, a fuel system that would only go down to a third of a tank that would seal itself. if you're in a helicopter, nothing but fumes of jet fuel

hit you in the face. until a matter of seconds we hit the big ball of fire and it was over with. why it doesn't blowup, i don't know. it's spewing fuel. we are running the engine at 900 centigrade. out, canyou are going you describe the evolution of that day after you and bruce decided to continue to go back? what happened? major freeman: give me that again. host: as you go through the bruce make thend decision to go back flying, what happened on the ground? what happened is that day went on and into the night? major freeman: at night was the biggest fireworks you've ever laid eyes on.

we would ask to lay down protective fire when we come in on the shore. would start shooting at the enemy to keep their heads down. we would be offloading injured soldiers. basically.ur, i can't even recall 15 hours, other than the fact that a couple of times, the c rations, and taking a leak from the skid, because we could not waste any time. they needed every round of ammunition and every band-aid and first aid kit we could muster and all the water we can haul. those troops needed it bad. we wasted no time shoveling in and out. host: what do you remember about moore?lonel

major freeman: i monitored all communications. we may not tell other pilots that. it gets cluttered if you have too many people chatting. don'tk fuel and said talk. we don't describe everything, because it is better. colonel moore would tell us if the lz was hot or warm and advise us. he would tell us to move to the west side a little bit, because we have a push to the easter whatever. east or he was air traffic control, so to speak.

he says, i can survive until daylight. i wanted to get out and go kiss him. i didn't. landed.back in and at daylight, crack of day, we started all over again. we flew all day that day and the following day. 3 days. host: the movie portrays bruce vomiting. he is accosted by another gentleman. did that happen? major freeman: yes. that was the medevac who refused to go in. in defense of those pilots, i know some good ones. it was not their policy, but headquarters policy.

outfit. to be in that i thought why are you here if you cannot land? that doesn't make any sense. i can't blame the individual. bruce was going to go over shooting, and i took the gun away from bruce. i explained that we don't shoot our own. i was passed, too. it blew over, and nothing came of it. hot. was and i can understand. sometimes, you cannot change things. you change things if you can. host: november 15. this is onee said of the worst days he had ever expressed in combat.

tremendous--ck was dawb attacj wa major freeman: everywhere you looked, people were killing each other. tracers, you could walk on them. it was a strange, here he eerie feeling. they did not keep their heads up too long. they knew that helicopters were lifelines.

we always took some rounds. an eerie feeling. host: tell me about sleep deprivation and how you work through the stress? major freeman: i was not exhausted. my mind wasn't working well. i couldn't remember what i finished. i laid down in and immediately, drifting.a la land, i was there 10 minutes or less. than it was daylight, got to go. i felt a little better, but not a lot. combat is a strange animal. it is a strange thing that does different things to different people. it treats people different.

not all are the same. again, i called on my experience from korea. i accepted that this was probably the end. i got through to a little better beeni would have if i'd out there the first time. like?so what did it look can you describe it? major freeman: airplanes came from all sides. a jet would come by, and the areawould scoot across the into someplace else. the jet is not a close air support machine. agrees. it is too fast to support ground troops.

screamed through their. -- there. the bongo skipping, you can see it, skip down the bushes-*-- see goes skipping, you can bushes.ping down the there were formations of aircraft circling, waiting their turn. i don't know who put the napalm out, but i know who all the kids were. i knew jimmy. he was of japanese descent. he died the next morning.

,he called me just a while ago his mother. scene almost like a movie , with the amount of aviation that was trying to get in there were a lot of dead, and a lot of damage to the enemy. a --rd: what about drupal joe galloway? major freeman: i didn't have much until it was over with. we used to drink beer together. i have known him many years. i got to know him really well. he's a straight arrow and a very bright man, very clever and very intelligent. good person. good human being. after the battle, you

tent.ou were in the what do you remember about the troopers and him on the 16th when they came out? you listed them out? major freeman: absolutely. and extracted them, which we did a lot of times. there was a different look about the young gis in their eyes. jordan, the big square jaws. i think he's a good actor. he doesn't show very much emotion. certainly not among his troops. eyes ande is steely squared away when it comes to that, because he doesn't want to lead any of this in motion shed

into his troops. i believe i may be right on that. but joe was a happy-go-lucky guy, as a general rule, and still is. the night at the phoenix when we had our medal of honor society meeting, enemy seven of us showed up -- 77 of us show up. a metalnted joe with and he got up and made his speech. he said, by the way -- the army gave him a bronze star. he says by the way, should have gone another metal for writing around with freeman oliver vietnam. -- all over vietnam. richard: tell me about the movie. how has that changed things for you? you are a prominent part of it. bruce is really the focus. major freeman: bruce was more of an aviation advisor.

they wind him to come down to, anythingen't lost georgia except for blood, sweat, and tears. i decided bruce could handle it and i did not need to go. i thought it was very well done. i enjoyed it. it is about 85% accurate in my book. i think most people that i talked to would give it at least 80 or 85% accuracy. they sent me a copy of the script, and ask for comments. the big comment i had was, get rid of some of the profanity. in my case, i had two young granddaughters and they probably heard it before, but i did not want them to come out of the movie like that. i don't think they paid any attention to me, because you probably saw the movie and noticed. it was a waste of effort when i made my comments. i thought that they did pick

pretty good job of making it. i did not approve of some of the things, but most of it was accurate. richard: what about the ending when bruce kamen, the greg kinnear character, on the third morning of the 16th? major freeman: he and i am the gunships. not true. first place, you cannot use a gunship when you have your own troops on the ground. the only time we could fire our machine guns, is on the side of the helicopters. with the initial trip in, for the first trip, we could hose everything down, hoping we would get in a straggler. other than that, you can't come in there. you have to have open area to hose them down with, otherwise your own troops would get it. it looked good in the movie, but it didn't happen. and we did not stack bodies up,

we did not touch them. you could walk on them, because they were stiff. with bodies but we did not stack on them. we did not urinate on murdered troops either. they did not come in with all the women reporters. just joe. richard: it's the 40th anniversary reunion. what has it been like for you? major freeman: i have raised it through my mind a few times and replayed it. reruns. movie, ien't seen the don't think since the premier. the -- caught a little bit on tv. think it was excellent that they did that, and i think it showed that we had a good side. i think it at least helped the

troops because the troops took it insurance. our tube did not smoke marijuana. we were in a barbed wire men,glement with 23,000 and you did not get out of there except for the helicopters. we could not go to town, there was no village, the village was 10 miles away but there was nothing there. i'm not saying people didn't do this inside on where whatever, wein saigon or wherever, but had good troops and they were good american soldiers, and they were vicious fighting men, and i had met her than very much. but i think they took a bum rap. i hope this helped show the public a little bit that we has some tremendous young men on our side. 100 years from now, someone is going to be wise in this and listening. what do you want to tell them about the men, and by yourself?

-- about yourself? major freeman: i would hope that somebody finds a solution, other than war. but i don't believe they will. i want to tell you a quick story about my grandson, he's my fishing buddy. he's now a schoolteacher. he went to college on a scholarship and played baseball and all that, but he teaches. when he was about nine years old, we were going up the river fishing. out of the blue sky he said, grandpa, do they fight wars on weekends? i said yes. we drove on around some more curves. he said grandpa, do they fight on holidays? i said yes. minutes he says, grandpa, do they fire wars at night? i says yes. he did not say anything for quite some time.

then he turned and looked me in the eye and said, grandpa, why do they fight wars? he knew just enough about war, that he knew i had been there, but nothing else. my military life, i tried to keep it away for my children. it was just a job. i wish i would have known what to say to him, but i have stumbled through something. different -- difference of opinion, believes that two different governments, they don't agree. but that doesn't make it right, does it? major freeman, we are about out of time. i want to thank you for participating in this. it is our honor. major freeman: and i hope i didn't bore you. richard: [laughter] not at all serve. you are watching american history tv, 48 hours of

programming on american history every weekend on c-span3. c-span us on twitter @ history for information, and to keep up with the latest history news. c-span presents, "landmark cases," the book. a guide to the landmark cases erie's, which explores 12 decisionsupreme court like marbury the medicine, korematsu versus united, eight brown versus the board of education, miranda versus arizona and row versus wade. highlights and impact of each case, written by court case tony morrow and published by c-span in cooperation with cq press. it is available for $8.95 plus shipping. get your copy today at c-span.org/landmark cases.

>> in her book "a settler's , year: pioneer life through the seasons", kathleen ernst uses photographs from the old wisconsin history museum to show what 19th-century life was like. next, she describes a year in the life of immigrants to rural wisconsin. kathleen: thank you. i am delighted and honored to be here at the national archives. things all for coming and a special thanks to doug swanson and his colleagues here for making this program possible. as doug mentioned, my first nonfiction book was set in maryland where i grew up and i was too afraid to cry. i was looking for the stories of the civilians during the antietam campaign and the whole war, and out of the first time i was able to make use of the study collections here at the national archives, as i looked