you're watching american history tv on c-span 3 tv. 150 years ago this past thursday, confederate general lee surrendered his army to

general grant, effectively ening the civil war. we'll be live this afternoon for the next three hours as the commemoration continues today with reenactments of the gun stackings that took place on this day in 1865, when more than 22,000 general lee's infantry troops turned over their weapons and battle flags. also, later in our program, you'll hear remarks from historian david bliegt who talks about the legacy of appomattox here at the park. bru, first, we joined by the two men who played a starring role in thursday's ceremony, the surrender ceremony that you just saw here.

>> we want to invite you to be part of the conversation. glld what were you thinking as general lee rode away? >> sadness. i felt for the confederate soldier. i knew they were suffering with the surrender after they had fought so hard for four long years. i felt the most climatic, the silence, no guns, no shouts, no battle songs. the silence was a sound that we had not heard for four years.

and it occurred to me. >> general, you watched that sight on thursday, you came to pause for a moment. >> i was concerned for my boys. we were putting the battle on from undernooet the bridle. what was going on in my mind, foremost, was how i was going to tell my soldiers that they were surrendered. and to actually say the words. and to let those who sacrificed everything for four years from petersburg. >> american history tv viewers from the next 25 minutes talking to grant played by curt fields.

general roberts in and out of character. and we invite you to do the same first. we have calls, gentle men. let's go to donald. i believe you're on the air. >> general lee, the days before the surrender on april 9th, i read in your memoirs that you had a severe head injury. >> i did. >> the moment you received the news, you became instantly well? >> the minute it disappeared, i suspect it was because of the great relief. from the vote i had just been given from general lee, it was the first time he was going to surrender. and i knew the end was near.

the relief was tremendous. and this was going to get to general lee to stop the killing. >> what was the decision-making, general lee, for calling for a meeting with general grant? >> i sent general gordon forward to the west to see if we had a clear road or to see if we could break through. and general gordon and general longstreet and myself decided we're going to give it one more time and see if there's any way out. when general gordon sent me the message back that he had fought the soldiers to a frazzle and the way was blocked by infantry, then i knew right then that was time to meet general grant. >> i think we have donald still on the line from jacksonville. are you there? >> caller: i'm still here. >> go ahead. >> caller: can you hear me? >> we can. go ahead. we're fine, thank you.

>> caller: what i am trying to find out is, after all these years the confederacy is still flying the flag around the country, which is disrespectful to blacks and people that are fought and died to represent the union. why is the confederate flag still -- and it's very offensive. if a sticker was flying in somebody's yard, you know what's going to happen so today, we're talking about 2015 and i got a couple of granddaughters come in this world. i don't want the confederate flag flying around. it's offensive and i think something should be done. can you comment on that. >> appreciate it, donald. gentlemen, any thoughts on the flag? >> i have no comment on that. >> i have no comment on that either. >> part of the ceremony here was a furling of the confederate

banners and flags. >> correct. those flags represented my army, my soldiers, and it represented their sacrifice. what i should point out is the flags were treated with reverence by the army of the potomac and general grant. that's good enough for me. >> next call from alabama. we go to travis. >> travis in florence, alabama, hello. florence, alabama, are you there? >> caller: yes, i'm here. can you hear me? >> yes, we can. go ahead with your comment. >> caller: i'm travis bails from florence, alabama. i had several relatives in the army in northern virginia. and my question is, had lee been able to link up with johnson in north carolina, could the war have been turned in the south's favor? >> no. >> why not? >> the south was fought out. the men had done more longer with less than any army in

history but they were fought out. they were worn out. had general lee been able to escape my forces, he couldn't have lasted any longer than days. his men were starved, out of ammunition, barefoot, many of them. they were defeated in everything except spirit. but had general lee been able to break loose from my forces, it would not have prolonged the war and certainly would not have changed the outcome of the war. >> general lee. >> i had a duty to try. i had a duty to my government and my men. but, in retrospect, general grant is absolutely right. by the time i would reach general johnson, there's no telling how many men i would have left. i was losing men every mile because they were exhausted and they were starving. they just, they couldn't go any further.

if i had managed to escape general grant here, i'm convinced he would have caught up with me before i made it into the valley. >> how many days in advance did you begin to devise the terms of surrender? >> at our last meeting on the river queen with president lincoln, general sherman, admiral david dickson porter and myself, we asked the president in talking, we said, it's almost over. what then? and then president lincoln said, let them up easy. so that was my plan. president lincoln also indicated to me, you get them to stop fighting and lay down the arms and leave the politics to me, general. so i began thinking about what i would write in the surrender terms, and i wrote the most verbally economic document that i could write.

because i did not want to put a jot or tittle in that document about which anyone could debate, argue or harangue. i kept it simple. if you'll read it, it's strictly military. there is no politic in it. >> this was a bit of a reun ron for the two of you. what was your impressions general lee of seeing general grant for the first time. you both fought in the mexican war. >> may i address that first, general? >> go right ahead, sir. >> i was nervous. i had met general lee in the mexican war, but even then he was the great captain lee with a long shadow. i was a second lieutenant not long out of the academy. general lee was quite the distinguished man. he was born to be the warrior that he obviously is. >> thank you. >> when i met him in the parlor of the mclean house, i was

disheveled, muddy as you find me now, and general lee was resplen dit in a uniform that had never been worn before with a jewelled presentation sword. i was nervous. in fact, in chatting with him, trying to break the tension, general lee finally had to cough and say, general, we must be about the business that we are here to attend to. >> yes. >> general? >> that was quite true. i had been trying to recollect what i had looked like from the mexican war. i do have a very good memory. i remember the incident of meeting him but it was briefly and i could not recall a single feature. >> i was clean-shaven at that time. i had not grown a beard. >> more importantly, when he arrived, i was relieved that he was there and i was not concerned with his appearance. i was concerned with mine because, at that time, i did not know what the terms would be. there was a possibility that i

would be his prisoner. i'm a gentleman and you make your best appearance. also, our wagons had been burnt. and the uniform that i wore, as new as it was and fine as it was, was the last uniform i had. >> we're joined by thomas jessee and curt fields here at appomattox. on the 150 anniversary of the surrender of the arm of northern virginia. we're taking your calls here on american history tv. joe in new york, you're on the air. >> caller: yes, i have a question for general grant. at the surrender ceremony in the mclean house on april 9th, general lee appeared in an immaculate uniform as he appears to be wearing right now, because he thought he would become general grant's prisoner. i would like to ask general lee

did he ever consider he might be arrested and charged with the crime of treason? thank you very much. >> that did come up after the war, and i communicated with general grant pointing out that i had a parole. i made sure i had one. i had gone home and i did not raise arms. politically, there was a call to have me arrested and tried for treason. i wanted to settle the matter and i communicated with general grant and the matter died. >> were you concerned at all that you, in terms of the settlement, hadn't had a chance to speak to confederate president jefferson davis? >> i had communicated with him. i don't know if he received any of any communications. you can understand that general grant after me, the lines of communication were bad. president davis had gone on ahead by rail. i didn't really know where he was located.

i sent him the messages letting him know the situation. and then i felt i did what i -- i had a duty to my soldiers. and once that happened, it was my decision. >> let's go back to our callers. jay is in miami, florida. welcome. >> caller: hello. yes. i'm calling from miami. >> yes, jay. >> caller: my question dealt with the topic that general lee just talked about, which was surrendering before president jefferson, jefferson davis did so. some people said perhaps he should have waited for his commander in chief to surrender, that perhaps he took that step earlier than he should have. i know that his men were suffering greatly. however, looking back on it now, is he still convinced that it

was the right decision? >> yes, absolutely. it was the right decision. i was a commander of the army and i was also commander in chief. and there was no way to communicate with general davis. i made the decision and it was the right decision. >> general grant, you made the decision to allow your rations, the union rations, to be distributed to union troops but your own troops were fairly starved from the chase as well. >> they were hungry because we had been on the run for several days in pursuit of the army of northern virginia. actually i gave general lee the provisions that i had kept him from getting. >> it was my rations. >> it was his rations that i gave him. >> it was magnanimous of you to do so. >> i thought it was at the time. we also gave him some of our rations. his men were starving. mine were hungry, but we had been in a head long rush to get to this place.

and, for the first time in the war, i saw a phenomenon that there were no stragglers in my army. every man -- we all knew that the end was near and every man was pushing to be at the front. no one wanted to be at the rear. >> a question for you from facebook. john landford wants to know what happened to the weapons, to the firearms that were turned in by southern soldiers on this date as a matter of fact, april 12, 1865. >> they were destroyed. they were destroyed. >> and you also allowed the general's officers to keep their side arms. why was that? >> the important issue in that question is not what i said but what i didn't say, because what has been lost over time, what has slid off the pages of the history books into the binding, is that i've already spoken to making the document as economically verbal as possible. i had let the officers keep

their sidearms and their horses. but the reason i did that is not because -- as i was criticized, i was letting a bunch of rebs loose with weapons. i knew they were men of honor and would stand by their pledge. what the significance of that is, is by letting them keep their sidearms, i also let them keep their swords. so not a confederate officer had to surrender his sword to the victor. i eliminated insult to injury. they were able to keep their swords. so they were able to take them home and hang them over the mantle. >> it is live american history t here with general ulysses s. grant and general robert e. lee taking your calls and comments for the next 10 minutes or so. mountain and pacific, 202-748-8901.

i'm going to ask you to step outer of character for a moment. curt fields, tell us your background and how you came to play general grant on this day. >> i'm a retired career educator. i hold a ph.d. in education from michigan state university. i was a principal for 25 years, taught for 8 years, been a memphis police officer, professional drummer, was a hostage negotiator for the memphis police department. i like to refer to it as a defunct professor. i'm an adjunct professor at the university of memphis in bell haven university in the memphis campus. i teach sociology. >> and thomas jessee? >> i'm an electrician, superintendent for an electrical contractor in tampa, florida. i live in lakeland florida. and i've been a reenactor since i've been 18 years.

not a living historian, a reenactor. >> what's the difference there. we hear that term used by different people. what's the difference? >> as a reenactor, you're showing a battle. you're showing an event, reenacting the event. that's a reenactor. a living historian is presenting as a person and they're telling that person -- they're being that person. like thursday, if you believed i was robert e. lee and you believed he was general grant, we did living history exactly like it's supposed to be done. the reenactors are the gentlemen over here having to surrender their weapons. they're not particular people. they're recreating an event. they're re-creating it. that's the difference. as far as the details behind the scenes, there's not a lot of difference. >> we allow people to part the curtains of history and look down that long corridor of time and see things as they really

were. >> did either of you ever expect to be here? >> never. >> no. if you had told me this two years ago, i wouldn't have believed it. >> i think say is on the line, miami, jay, you still there? jay from miami, florida. go ahead. i think -- just a reminder, jay and other callers, make sure you listen your television and listen over the phone so you can get the answer. you still there? [ inaudible ] >> we'll get back to his call in a moment. let me ask you, in the days after appomattox, general lee, what did you do? >> i was here at my headquarters. at first i had decided i would follow my troops out to surrender their weapons. i would be with them. general gordon and general longstreet convinced me that would not be a wise move. they said they would take care of it. i stayed here at my headquarters at my tent until the last

surrender, the last day. i was taking care of correspondence, making sure the men did get rations, finding paroles. i was waiting on colonel marshall to finish writing general order number nine. >> he was your aide? >> he was a general and he was the one who usually wrote my orders. so colonel marshal from baltimore wrote general order number nine. if. >> general grant, how quickly g did you notify washington of the surrender and how long were you on the battlefield or in appomattox rather after the -- >> i took care after the surrender, and general lee left me a myriad of minutia with all of the details i had to handle. it was some time late that day that one of my staff reminded me, perhaps you should telegraph secretary of war stanton. and i said yes, indeed. and i telegraphed them.

the next morning, on april 10th, i wanted to speak with general lee again, and i rode my horse out to meet him. he did not know i was coming. when he saw me, he got quickly mounted and rode out to meet, me and we had about a 30-minute conversation. and in that conversation i asked him to order all confederate armies to lay their weapons down. and he demurred and said i real hi cannot do that without speaking to the president. he did not know, nor did i, that that at the moment we were speaking president davis was fleeing to georgia. i told him there's not a southerner under arms who will not obey your order. and he said -- and what i disagreed with him, i respect him for it -- he said this is a political matter that i cannot deal with. i can only deal with my army to surrender. >> let's get one more call from illinois. this is mike in metropolitan, illinois.

mike, go ahead. >> caller: yes, this is mike in metropolis, illinois. what kind of documents, were there any particular documents or records that were the most helpful to you in preparing what obviously you have an almost comprehensive knowledge of general grant. were there any particular documents that were especially helpful? >> no, there weren't. i had been giving the document quite a bit of thought. that's a good question. it gets to the root of the matter. i did not have any templates or pattern to follow. i had to write my own terms. president lincoln did not dictate to me what he wanted me to say. so it was up to me. i refer you to the surrender document, or the terms that i wrote for general lee. and it's simple, it is straightforward. and as i said early, i didn't want a period in that document

that you could argue about. # >> before we went on the air you and i talked a little bit about traveler, the horse portraying traveler. he has an interesting background. >> he's in liberty, oklahoma. he's owned by copper top farms. it's a farm for therapy animals, wounded veterans, elderly people and children. traveler is a therapy horse and they found that wounded veterans in particular bond with horses. there's something about the horse and the man that bond a lot. besides looking exactly like traveler -- and the horse's names a zeus -- when they told me that i want sure i wanted to get on him. but he's a great horse and he helped injured people, which i think is fantastic. yesterday and the day before we were up at the mclean house, i was mounted on zeus, traveler,

and he stood there for three hours without moving while people took photographs. he's a remarkable animal. >> looks like we're going to have a couple more callers. you both are wilting in the sun a bit. let's go to david who is in pittsburgh. good afternoon. hello, pittsburgh. are you there? we well wait to get the caller on the line. back into character here for a minute. there were many surrenders to come. what sort of role -- several, anyway, what sort of role did general grant have no those surrenders? >> i went back to washington city after the surrender are here to stop all of the military contracts that were costing the government millions of dollars per day. i'm an old quarter master,

4th infantry regiment, and i knew what it was costing. general sherman took the surrender of general joseph eggleston johnson in north carolina and gave him essentially the same terms that i had given general lee. unfortunately, by that time president lincoln had been assassinated, radical republicans had taken control of the congress, and they castigated general sherman greatly for two generous terms. >> even though they were the same terms? >> essentially the same. they wanted to court-martial him, some of the senators. and i was dispatched to north carolina in a special train. i never got off the train because i did not want anyone to know i was there because i felt it would cast aspersions on general sherman. i had sherman come to me. i told him, this is not going to work. you're going to have to write another surrender, a stiffer one. and he didn't like that, be that's sherman.

he went back and offered general johnson another surrender document that he had no choice but to accept. >> general lee, now that your role was over with the army of northern virginia, how much did you stay in touch -- how much did you know of the subsequent surrenders in north carolina, in texas? >> not very much. i was trying to follow the information, but basically i was in seclusion in richmond with my family. so what information i did receive was various letters or people came to pay respects and they would tell me what was happening. you have to understand, in virginia, particularly the lines of communication were destroyed. so information about general johnson was slow in reaching me. and by the time it got to me, general grant had already taken care of that. and i didn't -- i was not even aware of that. >> step out of character for a second. thomas, kurt, as we look back 150 years,

what's the lesson today for people here at appomattox? what's the lesson to be learned from 150 years ago? general? >> i think the lesson that we should take away from this is that no matter what the issue or the topic, cooler heads must ultimately prevail. we must find compromise, we must resolve issues, as difficult as it may be. cooler heads were allowed to prevail and plunged us into a war that really didn't have to happen. >> would you agree with general grant? >> i would agree with him on that. i would also like them to take away from this place the sacrifice on both armies. >> indeed. >> for four years and what it took to come here. but, in particular, how general grant handled the surrender and how much that made a difference in the healing of the country. >> let's get another call.

we have jane in albertson, new york. jane, are you there? >> caller: yes, i am. hi. i wanted to extend my gratitude to these gentlemen portraying lee and grant. i think it's just an awesome portrayal and they're performing a great service to our nation. i think they are -- it's just an awesome portrayal and they are performing a great service to that's a wonderful service, and they are doing an awesome job. thank you, gentlemen, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> how far in advance did you know you'd be here for these events on the 150th? >> i knew three years ago coming up here with the group, lincoln's generals, i was portraying grant, and my first trip up here three years ago, the park service indicated to me they wanted me to be the grant

for the 150th. >> i positively knew i would be here last august. i had a pretty good idea i'd be here last i'm, when i came up to meet everyone, plus the park service meet me. what would you say, i had a year to prepare? >> about. >> if you'd ask me a year and a half ago if i'd be here, i would never imagine such an honor. >> it's -- this is sort of a highlight for events beyond this. what do you have on tap? what do you have on tap? >> i will probably do reenacting still. >> yes. >> do living history where i can, and i've been requested at various places as i know general grant has to talk about the war, to present myself as lee, and that's what i plan on doing. >> i plan on continuing to portray general grant, because i have no political ambitions at this time. ultimately, actually, very soon,

i'll portray general grant -- president grant as well as general grant. >> what sort of events will those be like? >> living history events like this, reenactments, a lot of educational, professional leadership organizations, such as that, people want to know how grant did what he did, how president grant did what he did. best-seller as he died, after his presidency. >> yes. i never read them, i finished them and died three days later. i understand they are good. >> general lee, did you write your own stuff? >> i did not write memoirs. i asked various officers for paperwork, but i understand i only live five years after the war. >> let's see if we have one more caller on the air. on american history tv. is somebody there? go ahead. hello, go ahead, you're on the air, go ahead. >> caller: yes.

i would like to know is, i read that for you, general lee, that you took it very, very bad when you lost the war. how did you cope, and what did you do after the war? what did you do to, like, cope from the loss of the war? >> the first thing i did was get with my family in richmond and took some time of seclusion with the family. we left richmond to a friend's farm, which was further away from a lot of people, the press of people who wanted to come to the house and pay their respects to me. and i basically put my hands in the arms of god and said, show me what to do next. >> general grant, you were in washington. >> i was in washington, and in

august of 1866, i was appointed general, they created the rank general of the army, and i got my fourth star, i was the fourth general of the army, and i was general in chief until the republican party approached me after andrew johnson's term was nearing an end and requested i run. i did not want to run, but i felt that the party that elected president lincoln had come to me and asked me, and i should answer the call, so i ran for the presidency. >> general grant portrayed by curt fields, general robert e. lee portrayed by thomas jesse. thank you for joining us and being with the viewers as well. >> thank you. >> thursday, on c-span 3, programs about world war ii, 8:00 p.m., tom brokaw on the war's impact on america and the world. at 9:10 p.m., the world war ii victory in europe 70th

anniversary ceremony. 10:25, victory in europe 70th anniversary flyover. later, 11:15, the victory over japan 70th anniversary ceremony. world war ii, american history tv. 8:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span3. >> all this week on c-span2, q and a interviews. thursday, andrew ferguson talks about 2016 presidential contenders, president obama, cost overruns of the planned eisenhower memorial and a growing number of journalists and pundits in washington, d.c. 7:00 p.m. eastern, thursday, c-span2. this holiday weekend, american history tv on c-span3 has three

days of featured programming beginning friday, 6:30 eastern, to mark 125th anniversary of the birth of president dwight david eisenhower, his granddaughters, susan, ann, mary eisenhower gather for a rare family discussion at gettysburg college to talk about his military and political career, as well as legacy, relevance for 21st century americans. then on saturday afternoon at 1:00, 60 years ago, rosa parks defied a city ordinance for blacks to leave their seats on a city but to make room for white passengers. her stand helped instigate the bus boycott. we'll see what role lawyers played in the protest and civil rights movement as we heard from fred gray and demonstrators. then, at 6:00, civil war author and historian, william davis on the little known aspects of the lives and leadership of union

general grant and confederal general robert e. lee. at 4:00, 1965 progress report on nasa's projects including the manned space program and fly-by of mars. and rick burns on how the public learns about history through film and television. american history tv. all weekend, and on holidays, too, only on c-span3. >> american history tv was live in september from the camp sumpter civil war military prison in andersonville, georgia for a ceremony commemorating union p.o.w.s who died there. next, program from there, including viewer calls with our guest, the chief of interpretation, and leslie gordon, university of akron history professor, this program is about three hours.