>> good afternoon. you are watching american history tv. you are looking at the andersonville prison. we take you live now to the andersonville national historic site and cemetery in andersonville, georgia for the next three hours, taking your phone calls and the commemorative funeral for the soldiers who died here. joining us from the andersonville national cemetery, adjacent to the cemetery location is the chief of the historical site and will be with us for the next hour to talk about the history of andersonville and why does consider the most notorious site

of the civil war. we are joining our phone line so you can join the conversation. if you want to join the -748-8900.on, 202 you can also post questions and .omments on our facebook page mr. leonard, thank you for joining us this afternoon. mr. leonard: it is my pleasure to be here. let's start with where is andersonville? it is important to start with this idea that military prisoners and prisoners of war are often left out of the mainstream telling of the

war. quite friendly, there are no winners in the story. this is not a battlefield. it is something entirely different. it is a valor and honor. those concepts take a different form here. and many respects, in a standard guess, they are prisoners of war, and then you move right back to the battles. often, and addressing the story, there is an and knowledge of that, and then no detail, and you move on. andersonville has a name brand recognition. the public often doesn't know any of the details beyond the name and that something unusual took place there. host: let's start with the basics. when was it built? what was its purpose? mr. leonard: in the fall of 1863 as the exchange system of the

previous two years falls apart, due to the presence of black soldiers in the field, and the question over how to treat like soldiers -- black soldiers. with afederacy is faced problem. there holding the mostly in the richmond area. thousands, 10,000 prisoners in richmond -- it has a drag effect on the community. resources are going in to maintain the prisoners. if you are in the confederate army, or the government, you are looking at those resources, they should go to the army to fight the war. if you are civilian, you are thinking, my family is hungry, why am i having trouble getting food? and then, prisoners in richmond -- richmond is one of the primary targets of the war, there is a lot of fighting having unionity --

soldiers in richmond makes that target even more attractive. the solution was to move the prisoners away. that63, there is this idea southwest georgia is a very safe, insulated place, very far from the fighting. it is serviced by the railroad system of the south, and it is an agricultural breadbasket, food should be readily available. officers come here and find a site. some of the concepts that we consider -- this idea of not in my back yard. they specify an area that is essentially 100 miles north and south. you will notice, the president did not -- prison did not end up

near a commr big communities. want the prison close to them. there are 20 people living at the andersonville station train stop. . those people do not have political power. there are willing landowners who are absolutely ready -- two of them make the deal. on paper, they are supposed to receive a rent of about $50 per year from the confederate government for leasing their property to build this massive facility. 1600 acresioned as a square design for a capacity of 6000-8000 prisoners, essentially those being held in

richmond. the intention is to move them from richmond here. construction begins in early 1864, and by the end of february, prisoners are en route and arriving here. the prison comes into being. 6000-10,000 prisoners was the original intent, how many ended up there? mr. leonard: at its height, the one time capacity in august 1864, there are over 32,000 u.s. thisers being held inside present. by that time, the original stockade had a 10 acre expansion . that is both in the month of june and open on july 1. host: also, could you follow up, if you have that many people in such a confined space, what is living like their?

give us a sense of the conditions and what ends up happening with the prisoners there. mr. leonard: this is the forest a part of south georgia -- of southpart georgia. the original 1600 stockade was built of posts that were square and fit tightly together. the first prisoners that arrive described as a place where their construction debris is clearly everywhere. it is a very disturbed place. there is no shelter. prisoners improvise shelter out of the degree that is present -- debris that is present. were gathering details are allowed out daily. when you're gathering that

would, you are looking for two purposes. obviously, all this fire wood for cooking, but larger pieces debris and castoffs of is shelter making material. don't forget, if you're watching a home and want to contribute to the conversation, again, now is the time to do so. if you want to call, 202 -748-8900 for those of you on in the eastern and central time zones. if you want to tweet at us, you can do so. you can also post on our facebook page. mr. leonard, let's pretend i am a prisoner coming to the prison, what is my day like? in the 14 months of

the present operation, the answer to a question changes to radically. for those initial prisoners who arrived in late february 1864, it seems strange when you know what comes later. they see andersonville as an improvement. it is better than other prisons. it is an improvement. the weather in south georgia seems nicer. they have a change of venue. they are kind of excited about the opportunity. , everyoners arrive prisoner that arrives here and leaves here does so on the train . the train is integral to the story. when you are offloaded at the train station, the train itself, the train tracks, and the train station are almost half a mile to the west of the main prison compound.

prisoners referred to it as . hundred paces to hell outside of the gates, closer to the main compound, you are intoed out, assigned detachments and squads. part ofl is a critical the daily experience of the prison. roll call is how the confederate command determines how many prisoners they have, and what their disposition is. they are counting the number of prisoners in the hospital, in the stockades. they're making daily lists of the number of prisoners that arrive, the transfer out, and that die. they separate that out from the number of people who die in the hospital and die in the prison itself.

host: as far as the way people, give us a sense of health conditions -- where their clean facilities? give us a sense of what living was like in that front. mr. leonard: one way to start with that is the hospital. a 14 months, there's always hospital. it is in three different locations, and there is a fourth adjunct to that. just for prisoners, there is a separate hospital facility close to the train tracks. that was a compound with two frame stone structures. where the hospital starts is inside the hospital itself -- the prison itself. that, by may, the confederate command has realized is not a good idea, it is not working very well. the hospital

downstream of the prison to the southeast. their perception is living next to the stream will be a healthier space. it is important to note that the stream that they move it next to is the stream that flows through the prison compound itself. , the, as originally built enters the middle and west side of the compound, flows through the wall, and the creek is the single most important feature of the present.

it is the plumbing. the prisoners will collect clean drinking water in the middle section of the prison, perhaps bathe and clean themselves in the creek. the creek is channeled into a .tructure that is a toilet the intention of all of this is the flow of the creek will flush the toilet. the success of that is designed on an understanding in the 1860's of germs and bacteria, which is to say, no understanding of that at all. but they don't know is they have created the perfect breeding ground for dysentery. host: we can engage in this later, only because we have calls lined up for you. let's start with paul and tennessee. you are on with eric leonard, go ahead. caller: my question is why does

andersonville have such a bad reputation with another that had a rate.ow survival andersonville did such a batter reputation.ad mr. leonard: andersonville is the deadliest place on american soil. here and 14s die months. that is a dental they cannot be compared to any other place. the percentages have been used to create a sense of false equivalency. parish in onend

is aa -- there complex reason of why that occurs. in one single month, 3000 people died at andersonville. the scale was stunning. survivors spend the rest of their lives trying to come to them to what happens to and their friends. families struggle with what was it for. while 13,000 men die here, nearly 13,000 live. that is the bigger number. the survivors of this experience come to an end. they struggle with what does it .ean

there is not this sense of valor . in fact, prisoners of war, until the late 20th century were considered to be cowards and failures as soldiers. guilt, isst survivors something that union soldiers struggle with. connieur next caller, from north carolina. caller: mr. leonard, i have a question. i recently watched the ken burns documentary on the civil war. they stated in the document that the superintendent of the warden of andersonville was convicted of war crimes and hanged. i would like to know what his name was. can you verify that for me, please? that is absolutely

true. urtz.is captain henry wo he serves -- the command structure of the prison is in byy respects dysfunctional design. it makes no sense. there is a kernel that commands the entire military complex there. this is a really big plays with, at times, thousands of confederate soldiers either by you have a or colonel in charge of that. under him, you have a serious of .epartments there is a chief surgeon who oversees the hospital operation. captain you have a

whose job is to oversee the operations of the prison. second to that, the guard forces are georgia reserves, a form of militia. these are not combat ready troops. these are teenagers, old men with little training. when they are assigned, the .aptain has authority over them when he is off duty, the authority falls to the commanders. z is often absolutely frustrated. he complains constantly. his hands are tied. he is dependent on the quartermaster for supplies, the commissary for food. the roll call that they do every roll call,hey call

the commissary officer has to provide food into the prison. food was delivered every day. henry wurtz is still on blownn as the prison is to the wind. the kernel gives the last command of the complex. he fled to florida the week before. on may 2,o his arrest 1865. heat is transferred to washington, d.c. after his arrest and the transport, his escort, at one point in chattanooga, turned him over to the guard house, the federal guardhouse in chattanooga. that was a mistake. when the captain, who is

escorting him, comes back, he has been recognized by the men who were once in his care. during his transport to washington, d.c., the end of shaving the beard off of his face so he is less recognizable. 30,000 men live through this, and they recognize him immediately. toy are the ones, and try figure out who to blame, there is a larger command structure, but prisoners do not see that. z every day.nry wurt they tell stories about the dutch captain, one of his many nicknames. he is tried in a military tribunal in washington, d.c. from august 1865 to the end of october. november 10, death 1865. he is often described as the only confederate soldier to be put to death or tried for war

crimes. that is not true. he is absolutely, positively the most famous. by the time of his institution, he is the third confederate captain to be tried and executed for war crimes in 1855. host: mr. leonard, we are asking people to give comments and questions on facebook as well. writes and on facebook saying there was a movie called andersonville and asked if it was an accurate perch rail -- portrayal. mr. leonard: there are sort of two films. miniseries about the present. it focuses on prison life and dramatizes a fairly early infamous moment in the prison operation. iding,mp ra prosecution, and later execution

of a group of prisoners known as the "raiders." separately, there was a stage play turned into a film, calledg william shatner the "andersonville trial." the play and then the film about the trial are inspired and drawn out of the trial transcript that by the u.s.d government in 1869. the tnt miniseries was a three-hour miniseries that explored the prisoner experienced by drilling down to in 14 months of the drill down to something that is over and done in one month of the prison's history. it is a very dramatic story. the story of the raiders ultimately has a very nice, neat dramatic arc.

beginning, a middle, their capture, and finally their execution. the confederate army come all thatay from richmond, ok'd . it has a nice beginning, middle, and end, but the truth is the true prisoner experienced, no one wants to watch it. you are dirty, hungry, you have to go to the bathroom -- there is a lot of sitting around and waiting on a fate that is very uncertain. the tnt film, the background detail is stunning. when i watch that, that is what into. into -- i key it is a very accurate for tail. portrayal.

host: our guest is entered eric leonard. you can call and enough questions. the numbers will be on the screen. lee in winchester, virginia, thank you for holding on. .aller: thank you mr. leonard i had a great great uncle who was brought to andersonville. i'm wondering, it's an open part, i believe. the dates and times you are able to go to andersonville, and, are you able to get records and copies of your ancestors and and the being there burial sites? as a u.s. national park site, andersonville is open to the public daily. it is closed only three days a year -- thanksgiving, christmas day, and new year's day. the grounds are open in a clock to 5:00. the museum hours are from 9:00

.o 4:30 daily inside the national prisoner of war museum, the part maintains a database -- park maintains a database of people buried in the national cemetery, including the andersonville dead. there is a listing of the andersonville prisoners, the debt and the survivors. there also partial listings of prisoners of war. we do not have original records here. the original records are at the national archives. the most important historic document for documenting union theirers of war is th service record. again, the national archives has that. some of the records are becoming accessed and easier to than going to the national archives.

, especially the survivors, but the dead, the record was done well after the war. it is a memorandum. it identifies the captured day of the individual, often the circumstances of the capture. lists the various places where they were held prisoner. with most prisoners held andersonville, this is one of at least three, sometimes as many as six, prison facilities that they are held at in the space of one year. it is the biggest and most famous, for a lot of reasons, but it is not the only one. those national archive records .re the first source during a visit, you can use the database to look of a person. often, we do have copies of the service record or other items.

this was an enlisted prison. what is extraordinary about these prisoners, they're not famous people. are the workingmen of the u.s. army, the marine corps, the navy . their privates, corporals, sergeants. what is extraordinary about them is how ordinary their lives are after this thing that the experience. host: from california, this is david. go ahead. caller: good morning. i was told that there was a medical doctor who would examine the prisoners before they were admitted to the cap, and it's -- , andted to the camp supposedly he was a freemason. if there were any masons, and they made a note to him, he would extract them. as that possible story --

possible story? changenard: the surgeons over time. however, it is clearly documented -- this actually makes the story better -- georgia officers who are freemasons, they recognized the ,ing and the sign, these men who under normal circumstances, their job does not bring them to the stockade, they walk in with care packages and names. there is a masons large improvised in the stockade, against the south wall of the prison. ' diary accounts -- prisoners notice this, and after the war, they want to be a mason. that fraternity is one of a very

small number of routes in which mercy is being allowed in the prison. thank you for bringing that up. host: that was david and california. mr. leonard, as far as safety within the prison walls, how did that work as far as having so may people combined in one space? mr. leonard: there is little to no internal policing. they the cards do is sa man the gates. that in their relationship to the creek. one of it is north of it, one of it is south of it. there are 52 towers around the stockade wall. what the guards do is keep you in. and so, internal policing is left to the prisoners. and if that sounds like a recipe for trouble, it is. constanting is almost

part of the prisoner experience, where early in the prison's operation, raters or rating is a raiders -- raiding or is a verb before camp robbing. thea prisoner, the more -- more friends or have, the closer your stay together, the more no one is going to steal your stuff and you are going to survive if somebody else is walking -- watching your back. host: let's go to charles and virginia. go ahead. caller: yes, i have a question about andersonville. prior to andersonville existing, the north and the south had prisoner exchange agreements. the north had unlimited

supply and the north had more troops, and the south had a limited supply of future troops. and what -- it was a war maneuver strategy brought to lincoln by his generals. the south doesn't have the troops to replenish these. andersonville wouldn't have existed, neither would have chicago, or others, if not for lincoln's war strategy. it is not lincoln's war strategy. the system ties into the evolving nature of the war. following the emancipation ,roclamation, the united states the union army start enlisting african-american men not simply by the thousands, but by the tens of thousands. and this creates a question. it is a cultural change. how do you treat these men? and in the spring of 1860 -- around the same time of 1863, the army, the lincoln

administration are struggling with the changing nature of war and they bring in a legal scholar by the name of francis to develop, for the first time, a written law or code of war. they are taking evolving military tradition from 200 years in europe and in the united states, the revolutionary war, and a are codifying it. and to be code is critically important and often overlooked in american history and in world history. copieseva convention entire sections of the code. so the code survives in spirit today and these humanitarian protections for noncombatants, prisoners of war. buried within the code is a very bold statement that in a sense is the first equal rights policy of the united states government.

soldiers, regardless of their color, are to be treated equally. and it was a line in the sand. provocative and, boy, it did. they all react -- adept reactionary policies to this. be treateds are to as slaves and repatriated to slavery. white officers of black regiments are to be put to the for inciting insurrection. -- put to death for inciting insurrection. for months, that policy is just talk. following the, you know, in charleston, following the assault that is featured in the film "glory," 35 men of the 54th massachusetts are captured. there are not killed, they are captured. and what to do with them is the

tipping point. the governor of the state of south carolina wants to try them for war crimes and put them to death. the confederate army is desperate to that that not happen. the confederate government is desperate that that not happen. they became not to do that, so these 35 men and up in the charleston city jail, which still -- 35 men end up in the charleston city jail, which still exists today. throughout 1864, as the prison crisis -- the prisoner crisis gets worse and worse, at every time these two sides negotiate, the united states representatives are very clear, all you have to do is treat them equally. that is it. and the exchanges die on that one issue alone. until really be very end of the

war. host: mr. leonard, how was segregation treated there in andersonville jackson -- andersonville? mr leonard: at the battle one comes intoe the -- being, the regiments fight a rearguard action that is instrumental in allowing the union troops -- the bulk of the union troops -- to retreat from the field. approximately 50 prisoners are taken. they're not initially brought to andersonville. they are moved there at some point in the spring. there cap separately. they live within the stockade as a group. later on, they have a major , his them, a white officer

rank is disrespected by the confederacy and he is thrown in and enlisted in prison because he is an officer of black soldiers. that major is denied medical care. camps with the black soldiers. [indiscernible]- -- appointment at the prison, black soldiers are used as a slave labor. every morning, they lineup and they count out and then they walk out. think about this for a minute. if you are a white soldier from prison is like, an amphitheater. everybody can see that happening. those black soldiers are being treated different venue. you are stuck in here. what you want is not to be stuck

in here. and they walk out. now, they are being put to hard labor. around the prison compound and they are subject to punishments straight out of the plantation. if they refuse to work, if they give lip, they are beaten, they are ripped. -- whipped. and they are whipped in front of the other black soldiers. an extension of that is if you are a white soldier observing the prison operation, what you know of slavery before you came to the south to fight the war is what you read in novels. ,s a prisoner in andersonville if you attempt to escape, they hunt you down with dogs. that is straight out of the novel. and a number of prisoners come to realize, wait, we are -- we

are not slaves, but we are being treated like slaves. so you build in empathy with their -- there. the black soldiers are being used as slaves throughout the operation. york, thankrom new you for waiting, go ahead. caller: there were reports of many, several soldiers, testifying on his behalf that he did everything in his power to sustain them. and they were not allowed to testify during his trial. there were other soldiers who were never in andersonville that were allowed to testify against him. lesley gordon may speak to this later today. the sergeant of the 16th connecticut infantry, his entire regiment is held here. when he is released in exchanged -- and exchange -- in exchange

from south carolina, he starts -- he turns his journal, has diarrhea, into a book. it is published in march of 1865 before -- while he is still working here all the prison is a functional place. because of that book, he is called the testify. kellogg testifies as both the prosecution and the defense. both sides speak to this one individual soldier and say, we trust everything he says. he is very blunt about this guy being -- [indiscernible] he has a very specific story about henry werth's -- henry werth. story almost humorous where he asks permission to use his pocket knife to big up a root for extra food. permission, but before he is done, he is told to leave. when he approaches the prison's

gates, he realizes he has left his pocket and i behind. he goes to the first officer he sees and says, excuse me, i need to get my pocket knife. he walks him back, they find the knife, and t, you know, returns him to the prison. just imagine that image. a prisoner walking back to the south gate entrance with henry werth on horseback. everybody notices this. the place kind of stops for a moment. rth in the moment, captain we cracks a joke. he says, they think you are up to something. -- when weimony , 150 about the trial witnesses testified.

bluntest ofthe them, the most accusatory of them, tend to be the 50 or so confederate officers, confederate guides, confederate officials, and confederate civilians. there are the ones that speak very plainly to break down within the chains of command and assign responsibility. host: here is evan from indian wells, california. caller: [indiscernible] host: evan, go ahead. caller: [indiscernible] onto ok, let's move joanna. michigan. caller: hi. i have a question. i'm going to tell you my story. i had a great great uncle who served in the union. and he was under george custer.

captive inwas taken 1864. he went to richmond, and then he was transferred down to andersonville. and he was down there from july until november, when he was paroled, pardoned, up to maryland because of his dysentery and malnutrition, where he died. and that is where he is laid to rest. interesting.s i did get my uncles civil war records -- uncle's civil war records, and they are phenomenal. they are very detailed, they are excellent. but my question is, while my uncle was down at andersonville, during that summer, some of the union soldiers were stealing from each other -- food, what not, just survival type things -- and a book i have on andersonville lists my uncle as being a judge during the trial

of these soldiers. and i was wondering if there could possibly be any sketches or photographs available of any of those kind of trial incidences with the union soldiers. mr leonard: within andersonville , there is really the only one trial. it takes place at the last days of june 1864. and so there aren't any drawings of that. certainly, especially in the later prisoner memoirs published by the 1870's, 1880's, and 1890's, they talk about the raiders in great detail. whether our drawings of is the execution -- what to there are drawings of -- what there are drawings of is the execution of the raiders. the execution of a small number

of prisoners by other prisoners, that is a big deal. 23,000 people watched that. and -- and they draw it. there are drawings of the gallo structure -- gallows themselves. there are drawings of that particular moment. host: stone mountain, georgia, jane is up next. caller: earlier this year, i went to andersonville with my boy scout troops, and i want to hear about the buddy system they had between the prisoners and the guards. buriedo the raiders were separate from all the other graves. could you tell me about that? mr leonard: absolutely. policylly, according to and regulation within the prison, prison trade is -- guards trading with prisoners is

prohibited, which means it happens all the time. there is a pretty slick black market. especially early on in the spring and summer as prisoners are leading -- leaving the cabin prisoners doing work outside the main stockade, they will often interact with civilians, women coming to sell vegetables. we have descriptions of sweet potato pies being sold. if you are a prisoner coming from the battlefield that spring or early summer, you may have greenbacks, u.s. currency, union currency. that is an illegal object in the confederacy. which means, of course, there is an amazing black market. one of the ways that is kept into is the confederacy manages a settlor store within the prison -- settlers store within the prison. and be operator is a georgia militia officer.

and he is bringing in goods and selling. one of the photographs of the prison shows this lean to structure. and that is the tipping point that the street off of the northgate -- it's original name was north street. it becomes known as market street because in addition to the store, you have this -- you are creatingners their own stores. they are trading real estate within the prison. trade, you a skilled are doing that. one of the prisoners who does testify for the defense claims that it is possible to get a -- [indiscernible] there are prisoners making food and producing food. there is a free market economy, and it is a reminder that we perceive andersonville as a hopeless place. these men have ingenuity, they

have drive, they are attempting to make a life out of their circumstances. ,n regards to the raiders though six men, in late june when the arrival game is created to put an end to the camp robbing, the regulators are, quite frankly, a vigilante gang. and they go to the prison command and say you have a problem, we will help you fix it if you let us identify them. they say that is a raiders, that is a raider. those trials, prisoner trials dismiss most of them. about 70 or so. and they are made to run a gauntlet back into the prison. and they are severely beaten. we know that one of the prisoners through the gauntlet died because of the injuries sustained. that leaves six.

and -- the so-called ringleaders -- one of these -- one of the soldiers has been a prisoner at andersonville for two weeks. my provocative thought is, he is not a ringleader of anything. he made a powerful enemy. those men, after their executions, because of the dishonor of the act, stealing from other prisoners, beating other prisoners, they are executed for that. sense,e, in a dishonorably discharged and executed. who is doing the burying at andersonville? prison labor. those six men are buried in dishonor. black soldiers dying at andersonville are not buried separately. they are buried in the trenches along with everyone else. and that is a measure of the prison labor.

a black soldier who died is a soldier. they lost theers, right to be buried with their fellows. and they remained today segregated graves away from the other graves. they are separate in their dishonor. host: you're talking about prison life, mr. leonard. in our world, the word "deadline" means one thing. why was it famous? mr leonard: the deadline doesn't originate in andersonville. it is, however, an invention of the civil war military prison. prisons, north and south, have deadlines. and those deadlines take various forms. , it is a simple fence. places, over the creek, sometimes the deadline is not obvious. sometimes prisoners deal the forrds in -- you know --

firewood or shelter building. and the rule is, of course, if you cross the deadline, guards can shoot you. and yet the photographs taken in august of 1864 illustrate the prison at its height. clearly shows shelters tied to the deadline. so andersonville is also a place of great contradiction. in some of the northern prisons, it is a ditch or a line of posts where at night they put candle lanterns on. a line that if you cross you are going to get shot at is the sort of thing which soon -- shouldn't have any ambiguity. host: the next call is mike from california. you are on with our guest, eric leonard. caller: yes, thank you for the programming. i have kind of a twofold question. firstly, i want to know what happened to the actual prison site when the war ended?

the physical structure. was it just left or was it torn down and the fields farmed? wasalso, i know that there a photographer, i think his name might've been -- [indiscernible] -- and i wondered if there were any pictures of the prison after the war ended? i wondered if there was any magazine articles or book that describes that? mr leonard: the ghost and chattels of andersonville is a , a valuable book because it is not a narrative history, it explores various components and there is a chapter in that book that focuses on our traditional pronunciation. he is a georgian photographer. those photographs aren't after the prison. there are smack dab in the middle. read about august 16, 1864.

-- read about august 16, 1860 -- right about august 16, 1864. the week before, there had been a terrible flood through the middle of the prison that had breached the wall through the creek. and that -- that is not shown in the photographs. the photographs very carefully show how tightly packed prisoners are. you can clearly see the flow of the creek through most of the prison, and you can see where there is essentially a brand-new reconstructed structure for the toilet. so the humbling thing in those photographs is this man sitting at the sink, at the toilet. they were captured for posterity , doing something that none of us want to be forgot doing. so that is part of that. in terms of what happens to the

prison after, it is left in place. there is an army guard here very, very quickly. and there is an army quartermaster expectation that arrives here in -- in late july and stays for about three weeks into mid-august. that quartermaster expedition is commanded by captain james moore, who by this time has already established 2 battlefield national cemeteries in virginia. and their focus is not the prison site. they are tourists at the prison site, but the army guards that accompany them on protecting all the property. that expedition that establishes the cemetery, they take the original boards that just bore a number and replace them with wooden headboards with a number, name, regiment, and date of death. and accompanying that expedition very famously is clara barton.

she uses her considerable political power, her association, her leadership with the missing soldiers office, to invite herself on captain moore's expedition. one of the dramas is those two leaders, clara barton and captain moore, are at loggerheads the entire time. the -- they are fighting over who is going to get credit for the work at andersonville. them and,peaks to quite frankly, not flattering ways. the army does the work of using the captured record, the death records they have with them. famous, the most prisoner, he served as a clerk in the prison hospital and he was one of half dozen boys who are keeping the death register, other records of the hospital

complex. he is famous, and rightly so, for one of the bravest acts of conscience in the entire civil war. in mid-august 1864, when 100 men are dying a day, he thinks to himself, if my government knew, they would stop this. and he commits an act of bravery. he makes the choice when the chief surgeon is not present to start copying the entire death register. his fellow paroled clerks, they see what he is doing, they know what he is doing, they don't tell. a couple of them copy the idea. the difference is someone like hyde copies the dead from just his home state. atwater was thinking of that posterity. he was thinking about the thousands of families across the country who might never know. and he -- he -- oh, go ahead. host: we are just minutes away

from a special semi there at andersonville. just take one more call. this is linda from jeffersonville, indiana. if you could go ahead with your question or comment. caller: i have three relatives that died in andersonville, and when my husband and i went there to visit, i found out that the section where my relatives were buried, the men were buried standing up. and that was because a lot of them had died at the same time. and so they just buried them altogether, but they buried them standing up. i was wondering if that was true because so many men died at the same time, was there a battle or an illness that swept through the prison? thank you. mr leonard: the -- from the records that describe -- that provide us the insight into how the burying was done, that his

prisoners telling us, they are not varying them standing up. they are burying them shoulder to shoulder lying down. they are digging a trench about three or four feet deep. at times, they are putting a board underneath and a board above the bodies. maybe as many as the first 50 to 100 burials are actually in caskets. it is after that they realize they don't have time. so the boards provided little bit of protection to the body, prevention of essentially the graves settling or collapsing. and each body is numbered. they put the headboard with a number on it. august is the deadliest month. the death rate is highly variable until august. august is a perfect storm because of the heavy fighting in two places, around richmond and then as chairman is edging ever

, the prisonlanta population is booming, the lack of an exchange or other facilities is studying to create anderious challenge, the -- it is in that moment that when a thousand people are dying a day, you're focusing on identifying their bodies. it is during that moment they stop putting those boards down because they don't -- to cut the boards, to protect the bodies, requires men that they need to keep digging trenches to keep up with the demand of the task. host: mr. leonard, i think we will have to leave it there. thank you so much for your participation in educating us about the events at andersonville. we have been joined by mr. leonard telling about it. thank you for being part of our coverage today. mr leonard: oh, it is my honor

really. we are glad to have you all here. and the service that is about to happen is going to be really special. host: and we are going to take it to that service later on in the program. we will talk with professor lesley gordon about other events could but for now, we go to special ceremony services at the prison site. >> [indistinct chatter] >> [indistinct chatter]