>> you are watching american history tv. 48 hours of rogue rimming on american history every weekend on he spent three. @cspanhs on twitter, for information on its schedule and to keep up with more history news. coming up next on american history tv, johnson county community college professor tai edwards talks about the history of the native american osage tribe. she explains why the tribe was moved from their ancestral lands in modern-day misery and why the move was detrimental to their health and prosperity. we interviewed professor edwards at the annual conference in portland, oregon in october. this is about 20 minutes. edwards, can you tell us about the osage tribe? : they had lived for a long

time in what is now present day missouri. they had built structures of earth. was believed they lived there at one point, and by the time the europeans arrived, they were living in present-day missouri, and they were farmers, the women, as is traditional for a lot of natives. they lived on waterways where they could plants along the waters where they do not have to so they would form there. they had lived in western missouri, and when the french

colonizers came, the osage really wanted to develop on tax the french because they had access to goods. the way native groups had power over one another relative to their rivals him even before europeans showed up on the was having at a soup valuable trade goods. mined turquoise, and they would trade turquoise we would argue internationally. another group or huge farmers, some people would travel all the withrom mexico to trade people like the osage who were farmers who produced farm goods. so when the french showed up, the osage a very comfortable with trading with so-called outsiders, and when the french show up, they have very valuable goods. they have metal goods that are very valuable. they have weapons that can allow you to gain advantage over others. scrapesre a woman who

for a living, it is highly valuable to use a metal scraper than a bone scraper. the osage were able to monopolize and trade with other groups further away from french communities. they had contact with the french for trade. for the french, getting hides in particular is leather that they can train back to french and europe, which is highly valuable for them as well. so the osage will become famous in missouri as imperial native groups, so osage empire, as mans call it, was the large population dominated the trade of that region, both in terms of european trade and in terms of other european groups.

so they have a large population, a lot of power, they were commercial hunters, and they wielded power in that region in much the way others were doing in the northern plains at the same time, the comanches are doing in the southwest and it to texas at the same time, so they were one of these our full, native groups even over europeans. >> how did you first get interested in osage? tai: i live in kansas, i have from kansas, i teach at a kansas institution of your when the osage were removed from missouri, they were moved to a reservation on canvas. is stretch from oklahoma to nebraska. of things in kansas named for the osage and other groups moved there, those individuals that had close geographic proximity and heritage in that space, which then makes you wonder what is their history, and when you start to study conversation or the impact of french and other

european groups coming to north america, it is sort of logical to think about the natives that have had or currently still live in your local region. >> it sounds like they had a very friendly relationship with the french. why were they removed, and who removed them? tai: some french people might dispute that characterization. the osage were good at wielding violent power if necessary, so many of their native rivals that not have a lot of nice things to say about the osage in the 1700's because a valid they monopolized trade. -- they felt like they monopolized trait. if you wanted french products on you had to go through the osage. try to go traders to other trading groups, that the osage had a problem with. they viewed that as a sort of disrespect. i guess it would depend on what you mean by positive relationships and whose impression it is. what changes for the osage

fundamentally in terms of colonization is when the united states because of power broker in the region. in 1803, that is the year of the louisiana purchase. the french had at least officially been out of the region since 1763. the spanish technically had control of that region for a long period, and as the french struggle to control the osage, the spanish never had a chance. they were much weaker in north america, so the spanis osage coe to wield their power. the osage are then in a different context a sort of international relations because jefferson and other federal officials intended to use the louisiana purchase to take easter native people -- i mean east of the mississippi river -- and move them west of the mississippi river to open land for euro-american settlement spirit in order to a college that, the natives who currently lived needed to be welcoming, and the osage location in

missouri made them sort of a natural place where they were sort of moved to her and that is why lewis and clark, for example, on a trip across america, they are directed to suspend powerful groups like the osage back to washington, d.c. jefferson. whenever people are sent back to washington, d.c., they have military bases and other actions that kind of intimidating them. this is the power of the united states, this is the population of the united states, this is our military might and our military weapons, and should you resist, you can expect to see these individuals in a more hostile context. so the osage in that experience were well aware that the united states was a powerful entity. of course, the ozone is like to trade with outsiders. sorts of now are the good spirits of the united states move into missouri, the osage had pretty positive trade relationship with them in order to get access to the goods that

they had long controlled. the problem is, the united a task a different -- states ahhaa different interests. they were encouraged or forced to move from their homeland. what that does to the osage is they now have competition. they have natives competing with them for access to game, access to trade goods, competing over the access to well-watered farmland. natives start moving into euro-americansee start moving into missouri. missouri gained statehood in 1821. the settlement quickly stretching into land that the osage are using, and that makes it harder for them to survive and be dominant in the way they long had been in that region. a littlen you talk bit more about that imperial status? what does that mean exactly? tai: this is of some scholarly

debate because when we talk about empires or imperialism, our natural bodies the european method and eventually the american method, which is exploitive, acquiring because you deserve them and the people who have been do not. i think with natives, this is the argument that has been made with scholars with the comanche and other groups, is they were able to expand their power base in many ways on military might. they use that to create in some cases commercial empires where they control the movement of goods, which the osage certainly do. a also trade in livestock and other things that the french and other consumers want, and they are able to have that dominance. there are some historians who, for good reason, do not use the word "empire" when discussing osage and other groups. ," because theynt see them as having power but not these colonial ideologies that

justify expansion long-term that you see with other european powers and eventually the united states. so there is some debate. some people call these imperial groups, and how they are carried out differently by different ethnic people. susan: so the u.s. government forces the removal. what is the impact, and what is the new environment? you talked a little bit about it, but can you tell us more about where they settled? tai: while the osage are living in western missouri, and some of the osage choose to move into more southern areas, modern-day arkansas and oklahoma, when the united states moved natives into missouri and eventually into some areas, the purpose is colonization. deprivinges of

resources of those who are not using them to maximum capacity. that is justification for removal. by the 1820's, the osage have faced unprecedented rivalry for access to natural resources in missouri. others.ives, from so the 1820's, they do not have had.ower anymore like they in order to not be obliterated which with americans, again, their leaders had traveled to washington to see what the u.s. army can do, the united states is building force in missouri and arkansas, too, which shows mounting power in the region. choose sovereignty over -- ownwn hearts versus lives versus removal, which is arguably not a choice. there are more southern

locations. trouble for the osage is that they had been farmers for centuries, and the land they are moved onto, although we might think that missouri and kansas are not that physically far apart -- how different can it be? for them, it was significantly different. for them to find the locations they wanted to make the villages in the kansas reservations, there is so little tillable land from their perspective. the problem with that five years is in frequent access to trade, food provision is undermined, not to mention all this conflict and competition you had faced in missouri before you left had been jeopardizing food and other things, so you see that the osage are sort of an an unprecedentedl y weakened state. they are suffering from malnutrition, from losing their homeland and their dominant during they are being moved to a

place of a find it much more difficult to survive in their lifestyle, which is that women farm in manhunt. in kansas, you see the osage struggling with survival. the kansas reservation where there moved has more than there used to and missouri, which means you may have one year that has a terrible flood that washes away your cross, or one year that you have terrible drought and you cannot harvest. it is really volatile weather. they have other things that devastated agriculture. that is obviously a food source you are losing and have to rely more and more on hunting. , by the time we get to the 1850's, they are suffering from euro-american encroachment. congress at language to legislation that basically says we are going to remove all the natives west of missouri and

iowa, and settlers in other places who wants land interpret that as oh, well, the natives have not yet been removed, but they will be removed, so if i want land in places like southern kansas, i had better get there now. thatsage struggle with severely. so one of the things we talk about with the osage is they had never really struggled with epidemic disease. even in their history with the french and their longtime trade and eventual intermarriage with the french, as soon as the european social, we have this idea that there are deadly diseases to the natives. we know now that that is not the case. in order for people to be weekend and devastated by that can hit them and success in, they have to be in some ways prior to

that. and for the osage, french colonization did not weaken them. it actually powered them. in the 1820's come encroachment by americans would least of the removal to kansas, you see them for the first time struggling with epidemic disease because they were struggling with knowledge for us in at that point -- struggling with malnutrition at that point, land loss, and frequent food supplies hereby the 1850's, they are having problem with euro-american encroachment again. the settlers literally living in an osage person's home while that person is on the hunt. they come back and they're like oh, so you live here now. osage women also built their homes of what rings -- wood pl anks. kansas is not known for its trees. if you are a settler, you want to build your house out of the amazing wood planks. osage are hunting and

away. the 1850's is the deadliest decade for the o's a spirit struggling with drought, and settlersg with it encroaching on their land. susan: how large was the osage tribe before hand? are you seeing now the population dwindle? tai: yes. before removal and missouri, they were highly populous. we're talking maybe 10,000 or more people in their misery and later some southern locations where they were living. nativeommon for most groups, removal for any native groups is typically deadly. businesses up access to food and is spiritually demoralizing. people, they live in

a certain place not just for environmental and productive farming reasons but also for spiritual reasons. that is a spiritual place, that they have a responsibility to. so leaving that place means they can no longer fill those responsibility spirit the osage, like many native groups, believe there are retributions for not withholding the responsibilities. so that had a sort of spiritual aspect to it as well as a traditional medicinal or health aspect. so just in the first year of removal and kansas, one in four osage people is believed to have possibly doctored like i said, the 1850's is the deadliest decade. by 1860, we have about 3500 osage. that is creating what a lot of people call genocidal population

laws. susan: were they able to recover, and if so, how? tai: there are a lot of remedies natives can use to fight disease. we talked about how farming is difficult. so they are going to hunt more and hopefully trade those goods. mobility as it takes you away from infected areas, so one of the diseases that the osage struggle with is colorado. colorado -- cholera. and if youbrought, want to get away from it, you have to physically get away from thes state that it is in. mobility get you away from the people and the disease. mobility also gets you access to replace food. can mobility also get you away from missionaries or government agencies who want you to change your culture or abandon your religion.

mobility is one thing they did. they also use different forms of economic diversification. they opened up trade with other native groups as a way to facilitate their survival, but eventually, they were moved to oklahoma even after the time and kansas. -- in kansas. leaders demanded that the federal government give them the proceeds from land sales, the kansas reservation sales, which were held in trust by the federal government for the osage, but they were not being distribute it to set osage leaders. the leaders demanded payment, which will finally put an end to starvation. susan: is there still an osage reservation in oklahoma? tai: many of the oklahoma reservations do not operate in our stereotype of ways. they have mineral rights to their old osage reservations, but it is not the typical reservation in the sense that they control all of the land.

but there are 18,000 registered members of the osage nation today, see you can certainly argue that ther population growth has exceeded even the colonial period. susan: where do you plan to take this research next? do you plan to publish it? ai: i just published discussion on this exact topic, what i am looking at on a broader scale is gender and the experience in the colonial period. if you want to bounce back from disease, you population growth, and population growth comes in the form of children. stress, malnutrition, all of those things impact facilities. if women have control over their sexuality, they have control over reproduction. but in osage culture, women typically have three or four children in her lifetime, and part of the reason is that they would nurse their children for two years to three years, and

during a period, osage women did not have sexual intercourse during what is that wasn't ensure that their children were phased out -- what this did was ensure that their children were phased out. their population is growing at about half the rate of americans at the time. control of population is good. but when you have malnutrition, you need a healthy diet and body fat to get pregnant, to maintain pregnancy and lactate. this will make it difficult for women to help the population rebound in years were all those things are undermined. there are many examples of osage population growth after disease outbreak. the problem is pregnant women, nursing women, and children are some of the most vulnerable to malnutrition and disease. often, the bedrock of your population growth are the people whose lives are most endangered

by epidemic and thus more lives are lost possibly. >> are you hoping to publish on that? >> i am talking with a publisher now. we can talk more about how gender impacts colonization even more than disease. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> you are watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on cspan3. to join the conversation, like us on facebook. week, "america artifacts" take you to museums and historic places. next, we visit colonial williamsburg in virginia that employs a variety of trades people. we talk with ken