in july 1962 martin luther king jr. was the first african-american to speak at the national press club in washington. recently members of the club located 53-year-old recordings of the speech and organized a panel of civil rights leaders and journalists to discuss its importance. this event includes portions of king's remarks. it's about an hour and a half. >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. welcome to the national press. i'm john hughes. i'm the president of the national press club. i'm also an editor for bloomberg news. we are here for a special event. for the first time in 53 years, we will hear martin luther king,

dr. martin luther king, in his own voice addressing the national press club. we will hear his voice here in the very room where he spoke. dr. king stood approximately right in the middle of that area over there. we will have experts commenting on the significance of his words at the national press club that day. first, i want to introduce some people without whom this event would not be possible. gill klein was the organizer. [ applause ] >> gill is a former national press club president. he's chairman of the club's history and heritage committee, and he's the journalism direct of american university's washington semester program and we thank him for all the work he put into organizing this

program. joe madison is our moderator. joe. [ applause ] >> joe is known as the black eagle. he is heard coast to coast each weekday morning on the urban view channel. talker magazine has named him one of the ten most important radio talk show hosts on nine different occasions. and we so appreciate his work on this program and that he's willing to be our moderator. joe will be introducing our distinguished guests on the panel to my left. however, i want to say a few words about one of them. mr. simione booker is -- yes. [ applause ] >> mr. simione booker sitting to the second of my left is one of

the all-time greats of american journalism. in 1982 he won the national press club's highest honor, the fourth estate award given for career achievement. he was the first african-american to win the award. he was the tenth person to ever win it. mr. booker, it is an extreme privilege to have you here in the club. you are our hero. this club is your house. welcome home. [ applause ] >> i also want to welcome our c-span and sirius xm audiences. you can follow the action on twitter this action. use the hashtag #npclive. dr. king was the first

african-american to ever speak at a national press club luncheon. he did this on july 19th, 1962. the speech came one week after his second arrest in albany, georgia, and he would be arrested a third time in albany at a prayer vigil exactly eight days after he gave this speech. his press club talk came more than a year before dr. king's most famous "i have a dream" speech on the national mall. now here is how the evening will work. first, joe madison will interview mr. booker, who as a club member not only attended the speech in 1962, but he helped organize it as a member of the club's speakers committee.

second, joe will interview by telephone dr. seebee jones. dr. jones helped write the speech. then we will hear four speech excerpts in the order that dr. king said them. we will hear his opening and we will hear his closing and we have two excerpts in the middle of the speech. there will be a panel discussion of these first, middle, and ending sections after each section. one of these middle excerpts is a video clip. everything else is audio, but there is one video clip. this video clip is the only known video clip of this speech to exist. there is no video or film of this event beginning to end that we know of and we've searched far and wide. at the time we were doing these

national press club luncheons in the 60s we only recorded them. we did not film them all as we do today. we're not able to play for you the entirety of the speech and the q&a because that would take too long. i want you to know this video clip, the audio, and the entire speech is on our website at press.org/mlk. you will also see there a printed transcript of this entire event beginning to end including all the questions he was asked that day. that's available on the website free. feel free to access that and learn a lot more about this speech after tonight. after we hear the clips and discuss them, joe will interview journalist bruce johnson and then joe will close the program

promptly at 9:00 p.m. now dr. king's appearance here was one of the most significant things to ever happen at the national press club. and to mark the significance of this event -- and let me tell you it's long past due -- we've made a plaque that we're bringing out for the first time here today. and i said at the beginning of my presidency we were going to do this. we're going to put this plaque outside the doors of the ballroom just to the left. there's a photo of lbj and nixon right now. lbj and nixon are just going to get moved. they're not going to go away, but they are going to get moved because this is a highly prominent spot to have observed that this highly significant event happened and that plaque will be at the national press club, which really is a living museum if you walk around and look at the walls. that plaque will be there as

long as the press club stands. and while i am only president for another week, believe me if i ever come back and do not see that plaque hanging there, there will be non-violent direct action to make sure that plaque is returned. and i don't think anybody is ever going to move it frankly because we're all in awe of what we're all going to hear tonight. i heard some of the excerpts earlier this afternoon and it sent chills down my spine. with no further ado, i want to introduce mr. joe madison. >> thank you. [ applause ] >> for more than half a century, simione booker devoted his career in journalism to race relations, black politics, and watched the civil rights movement evolve from its very beginning. and the stories that he and his

fellow black journalists told and the things they encountered are chronicled in a book that he has written, a biography. in putting this panel together, the first thing we had to do was make sure that all the participants were alive and here with us. and when you consider its been 50-plus years, we wanted to dig deep and far and get people who understood exactly what went on. you know, it's interesting. the national press club, the very first speaker, as you heard, african-american speaker, was martin luther king jr. you begin to wonder why did it take so long to have -- of the first speaker in 1962 you could have had jackie robinson,

thurgood marshall, booker t. washington. then you realized they didn't admit their first woman to the press club until 1971. so we've come a long way. the person who has watched that journey is simione booker. simione booker, ladies and gentlemen, if you don't know, "jet magazine" would not be "jet magazine" without that simione booker piece. [ applause ] >> and so -- and his wife carol is right beside him. let's give her a round of applause for the work that she has done. now, simione, first of all, thanks for being here. let's get to this.

you were on the committee that actually decided to invite dr. martin luther king jr. to be the speaker. to the best of your recollection, what went on in that meeting? what was it like? carol, if you can fill in, because i know you have -- there's an extensive paragraph in his autobiography about that meeting, but what do you remember, simione? >> two hearing aids make this a challenge. >> okay. >> what do you remember about the decision to invite dr. king? do you remember some tension on the speakers committee? he doesn't remember. he did remember when he wrote

this book. >> read that. maybe it might jog his memory there. >> at 97, memory fades with every day a little bit. >> but there's a chapter in that book. >> yes. this is from "shocking accoun " accounts." it was published by university press of mississippi ironically. simione was only the second member of the club -- >> second african-american member. >> second african-american. the first being louis. but louis didn't participate. when simione was sponsored for membership, he was urged to be an active member and he was. he joined the speakers committee, which was one of the most important committees

because it was the committee that chose the speakers for these wonderful news maker luncheons here at the club. so he proposed that dr. king speak. now dr. king had gotten some notoriety, a lot of press, because of the montgomery bus boycott, but he had never been interviewed by the national press. simione thought the time had come. it was a year before the march on washington and the "i have a dream" speech and it was two years dr. king became the youngest recipient of the nobel peace prize. he still had not been named "time magazine's" man of the year either. "jet magazine" had dr. king on

its cover at least twice. if you know the history of "jet magazine," normally it was a young starlet. that was rather unusual for johnson publishing. king had never addressed a large audience of the national press. also at the same time in 1962, maybe even earlier, but in 62 at least the fbi itself will admit that j. edgar hoover had targeted dr. king as a possible pawn of the communist movement in america, as anybody who participated in civil rights at that time was suspect by the fbi as being not only a troublemaker, but possibly a pawn of the communist movement.

so j. edgar hoover used the press, people that he knew, to send out rumors. i think it might have been that more than any racial issue that caused dissension on the committee -- >> to invite king to speak. >> yes. because the chairman resigned in protest. >> the chairman of the -- >> of the speakers dmee. >> of the speakers committee. the speech, as we'll get to later on, is a magnificent speech. you can tell from the questions that followed it that the seed had been planted because there is one question about whether it had been written by stanley

levinson, a new york lawyer, who was considered by the fbi to be communist tainted. >> i know -- maybe i can get closer with this microphone so you can translate. is there anything, simione, that you've heard that you want to add or did carol pretty much get your thoughts there that you put down in the book? >> can you hear, joe? can you hear him? >> yeah. >> yeah. anything you would add to my brilliant summary? remember, we're going home together tonight. >> well, keep talking. [ laughter ] >> you know, joe, sometimes --

>> look. i got that treatment when i first walked into his office many years ago. keep talking. just keep talking. right. >> sometimes it's better if i'm not in the room because then he'll talk. but if i'm here, he'll say you do it. come on, simione. talk a bit. talk a bit. >> about what? >> about dr. king. >> almost forgotten him. >> it's tough after all these years. you don't realize -- people will ask simione when he was on the freedom rides how did he feel in the back of that bus when people were being beaten up. and he'll say, you know, i don't remember. 50 years later, even the most vivid events kind of pall,

especially when there's one event after another. >> if you don't mind, i'll tell you what i want to do and that is to go to another individual who is out in san francisco at stanford university. i've had the pleasure of interviewing him on several occasions. he was dr. martin luther king jr.'s adviser, his lawyer, and by the way his speech writer. it was by chance that we were discussing this program and that i mentioned we would be doing this, carol and simione. he said, joe, i helped write that speech. and that is dr. clarence jones, who is scholar and resident at stanford university at the dr. martin luther king jr. research

institute. dr. jones, can you hear me? >> yes, i can hear. >> if we could give dr. jones a round of we've given somewhat of a background on how this came about so let me ask you, just how important was this speech to -- to dr. king at the time? >> well, we thought it was an important speech. first of all, let me just speak for the record is that the -- the speech was fundamentally his speech, but we had a lot of discussions about it and material he should consider was done by stanley levinson and the fbi was right. the great goal in preparing the text of the speech.

i had a very -- i had a rather cynical attitude toward his planned appearance. >> why was that? >> well, in 1962, we were involved in a campaign to segregate the public facilities and dr. king had been in and out of georgia and someone -- i don't think he said, someone said to me, you know, i don't think there was -- we said negro then, a negro that had spoken at the national press club, and i said, well, i find that hard to believe, but i guess it is, and so i called up louie martin who was on the democratic national committee. >> and would you -- would you

mind telling this audience who lloyd martin was? >> louie martin was at that time the highest ranking black in the democratic party, and so i said -- i said, louie, i said -- i said the kennedy administration got the sounds of the press secretary and the first secretary, why did it take us so long to get martin king? why did it take so long to get a negro at the press club. well, i don't know, you need to ask them. i said i'm asking you. so let me just say, so i had -- we, when i say we, martin luther king jr., dr. king, we were focused on albany, georgia, and we saw the occasion of having an opportunity to speak at the

press club. of him speaking not just about albany, but the broader issue of race in america because yes, he had received prominence from the montgomery busboy and by 1960 he'd been on the cover of "time," a large majority of america, they just knee about the speech of this negro teacher and they didn't know too much about it. they didn't know what we knew, that he was probably as aer aereodiet than most people at the national press club. he had the moniker of being a baptist preacher and clearly, dr. king was brilliant, had a photographic memory and he was a

scholar. now i -- i was critical of the national press club and also critical of dr. king because he didn't seem to respond to what i wanted him to take a much more harsher position. i wanted him to, when he spoke about him being there, i wanted him to actually say it as part of the speech. why is has it taken so long for a negro to speak at the national press club. he said no, that will be off the issue. just remember, now, he was speaking in july 1962. >> right. >> '62. president kennedy is the president of the united states. robert kennedy is the attorney general, okay? and the speak are before me, the woman mentioned -- let me just say for the record from july 13,

1963, july 13, 1963 until december 30th -- december 31, 1967, every single telephone call, without exception, 24/7, every single telephone call that took place between martin luther king jr., clarence jones, stanley levinson, every single one was wiretapped and the conversations transcribed first by handwritten notes and then they were typed and marked top secret. so it's a little bit off topic except your listeners should know that with respect to the federal bureau of investigation and j. edgar hoover, any

opportunity where dr. king would be a celebrated person was the last thing in the world he wanted. he wanted to destroy his credibility, wanted to destroy his reputation and so i don't know -- i've heard secondhand, in fact, i have -- i don't have it before me, but i remember reading in the -- in the transcript of the wiretap files, he was filed before they started tapping our joint file in 1963, hoover had -- anyway, everybody knows it. >> let me ask -- dr. jones -- >> let me just say -- let me ask one final question from me and then if you could expound. we only have a couple of more minutes and that -- >> right. right. >> that's okay. what was dr. king's reaction

after the speech? how did he -- how did he feel the reception snfs did he -- what was his thought after this historic speech? >> i asked him. i said how did -- how were you received? i wasn't there. he said, well, i thought it went over very well, he said. but you know, sometimes people have -- sometimes even some of our friends, you know, sometimes some of our friends they have difficulty when you talk about matters publicly that they are embarrassed to hear, and so from his standpoint he felt that the mere fact that he spoke at the press club, the mere fact that he talked about the issues which

were confronting america as a result of his experience coming from montgomery, and i think he mentioned a couple of times, at least one time i remember in the speech because i wanted him to mention more that he was in albany, georgia, and i wanted him to talk about albany, georgia being like a template, a type of microcosm of what we were trying to do in the south, and in direct answer to your question, he was pleased. i don't think he was -- i don't think he was overwhelmed in any way. i think he was just pleased. his first reaction -- well, you know. they didn't boo me. i got an applause. they didn't boo me, and i said well, let's see what happens in the press and how they'll try to tear you up in the press after.

i don't recall at all -- >> what happened after that? >> yeah. i don't recall him getting any negative press feedback. >> all right. dr. jones, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. i really appreciate the insight. >> not a problem. >> thank you very much. [ applause ] >> so now let's go to the audio clip of -- at least in part of what dr. jones was talking about. >> mr. chairman, distinguished guests, members of the national press club, ladies and gentlemen, i warmly welcome the opportunity to address such a distinguished group of

journalists. as has been said, i almost didn't make it. just last week i was convict in the city court of albany, georgia, for participating in a peaceful march protesting segregated conditions in that community. i decided on the basis of conscience not to pay the fine of $178, but to serve the jail sentence of 45 days. just as i was about to get adjusted to my new home for 45 days, reverend abernathy and i that some unknown donor had paid our fines, and that we had to leave the jail. as the atlanta constitution suggested the other day, we have now reached a new landmark in

race relations. we have witnessed persons being ejected from lunch counters during the sit-ins and thrown into jails during the freedom rides, but for the first time we witnessed persons being kicked out of jail. [ laughter ] >> victor hugo once said that that is nothing more powerful in all the world that an idea whose time has come. anyone sensitive to the present moods in our nation must know that the time for racial justice has come the issue whether segregation and discrimination would be eliminated, but how

they will pass from the american scene? >> let me start with courtland cox who was a mississippi organizer during the civil rights movement and has worked with the federal government on minority business development. he is president of the legacy board, and i am always so intimidated when i get around courtland because he's just a brilliant individual. let me get your initial reaction because i know you prepped for this and you must have had some thoughts in here when you were invited. just your initial reaction about this whole situation and what you just heard, what you heard from dr. jones and also maybe a little history about the relationship of dr. king was

snickered at that time in albany. >> before i begin, i'd like to say that i remember working with -- being in the same place with simeon booker in bimini when adam clayton powell was there, with dick gregory, and it was -- i guess maybe 1966 or 1967, andy he was a person of high regard at that point and was important to telling the story. as we know, jet magazine along with simeon and larry stills were very important in getting the message out. what strikes me about listening to dr. king and listening to attorney general jones is that while america wants to celebrate

how far its come and it should celebrate how far it could come, those of us who are involved in getting america to this point face very difficult circumstances. you can hear from attorney jones' tone about, you know, being wiretapped and being talked about and thought about as a communist, being disregarded. i mean, clearly, king was a brilliant person as we've stated here tonight, but being disregarded as someone who was making a tremendous contribution that what strikes me about king's opening statement is that understanding all the difficulties that we were facing in albany, georgia. of course, albany, georgia they

started the jail, no bail discussion. so people went to jail and we were going to fill the jails and people were beginning to really deal with the direct action that dr. king facing all of that in the south, not only in the south, but j. edgar hoover, the distrust in some respects of the kennedy administration. he came here and made such an opening statement it was able to be affable. it was able to not really give you the sense of frustration that dr. jones talked about, and i think that was king's big contribution to america when america needed to see a face. the question that was always asked, what do you negroes want? that was the question that was always posed and for dr. king to face all that he faced in the

south and come here knowing that he was the first and as you pointed out, thurgood marshall and other people -- >> jesse owens. >> we could name a number. knowing that they not only disregarded him, but a whole group of people and not because they didn't make contributions, but because of the ignorance that people had, for him to come here and to be so gracious and to be so good about his opening was the thing that struck me in terms of the opening statement. another person that came to my mind. >> dr. bunch who had not been invited here. julie richardson and i was told to let you know, cortland to let you know that she was here before you and on time. >> they have a thing going.

>> speaking of a negro first. >> a former staff member with snake in the 1960s and one of the most outstanding docume documentarian and the 14th-hour eyes on the prize that won an academy award in the pbs series. cortland talks about how dr. king in speaking here was gracious, affable. i sort of made a note. the first attempt at humor seemed to fall flat. there were a few jokes there that didn't get any response, and i assume people just didn't get it, and i don't know what they were expecting, but they didn't get it, but let's talk

about albany. what was going on in albany? now, you're older now, more mature, but let's be honest. king also had a major, major confrontation with snake at that time in albany. i read a comment by my great friend, the late, great julian bond who called -- i mean, referred to dr. king as the lord and here he comes. talk about that because king didn't even bring that into the discussion, did he, here in this speech? >> no. and in fact, when they asked him what is there about the conflict, he deliberately said we have no conflict and the fact that we always said. on the ground organizing we didn't have that conflict. on the ground organizing, sclc, the dr. king south leadership

conference. >> the naacp and particularly the youth groups of the naacp and the rural areas where they had cici bryant and the grassroots leadership there was no problem. i think we had a different organizing style. i mean, it was -- dr. king was this incredible intelligence and he was also a charismatic leader and so what we would say is we were doing grassroots leadership from the bottom up. so when i think about albany, i think not only of dr. king and of his spending the time in jail and mama dolly, who nurtured us and protected us with her 12 gauge. >> who is this? >> mama dolly is one of the many women in albany, georgia and terrible terrell that was right next door and all the people on. >> when you listen to bernice johnson reagan who was the founder of sweet honey in the rock and primary at the smithsonian for years, she comes out of that albany p georgia, movement and that youth movement

was the absolute engine that came through in albany, but the thing was we believed in building a leadership locally that would survive even our death so that the main thing was you're not the leaders. you are building leadership from the ground up and we are building leadership among those who normally would not have had a voice. so when i look at, for example, i should say, by the way, unabashed ad for the fact that eyes on the prize all 14 hours, hello? is about to come on sunday on the world channel, sunday just before "downton abbey," sunday at 8:00 p.m. and the first one is at 7:30 with a 30-minute wrap around and i've been working with wgbh and tomorrow i do a webinar with teachers on how to teach eyes on the prize and the democracy that we talk about on eyes on the prize, but it's all 14 hours. a lot of stations don't get it, don't get the word, but starting

in february it will go systemwide on pbs and again, it's all 14 hours. so it's not just emmett till, montgomery, freedom rides and when you get in the second hour you hear dr. king in speeches and there is a fourth hour of the second series where it's all devoted to him and where he's talking against the vietnam war and you see the riverside speech. you see -- as a matter of fact, when he's talking about the fact that it didn't cost the nation one penny to integrate lunch counters, but now what we need is a radical redistribution of economic power. you see where he is now which is incredible, but then you see he's going into chicago in the second series of eyes on the prize. you see it in footage and you see it with the people who are interviewed and you see him trying to take that nonviolent action north to chicago and butt it right up against daly and when you get into racism and the entrenched stuff. >> how did -- and feel free to jump in. how did the media, the press

respond to this? because one of the things that carol mentioned in simeon's book is that dr. king, most people don't realize this, we now have eyes on the prize thanks to you. >> and others. >> and others, but the reality is a lot of young people think it was constant news coverage. the news coverage was constant and that was not the case. franklin wants to jump in and it wasn't constant and lord knows you weren't getting a tremendous amount of news in the southern campaign, but you had the black press. >> really? explain the importance of the black press. >> we had a very divided society at the time and i'm going to talk about the washington, d.c.. >> please. okay. african-americans couldn't eat at any of the restaurants near

here. we couldn't stay at any of the hotels. my mother and father came here in graduate school and my father said there was nowhere he could eat except the supreme court and the methodist building when working at the library of congress. of course, we never stayed in hotels in washington. >> where did you stay? >> we stayed with relatives. whenever we traveled anywhere, you either told the green book where mr. green told you where you could stay, where you could eat in d.c., in the north, in the south in puerto rico, in the bahamas and mexico. >> did dr. king carry a green book? >> everybody had to carry at least a set of contacts or phone numbers when we left here going to north carolina, when i saw the iwo jima bridge as a 4-year-old i knew that meant no more bathrooms, no more

restaurants, no more filling stations until we got to our friend's home in petersburg, and we would take our lunch from here and use the facilities of our friends in petersburg and eat the lunch we took. >> so tie that into the significance of then dr. king being invited in july -- being here invited because then i guess he had to high tail it out of town and stay at whatchamacallit's house. >> 1962 is the same year that the cosmos club rejected paul rowan for membership. >> when i came to washington, d.c., in 1960. "the washington post" had ads both for whites and blacks. the only place we could go, the restaurant we could go, i remember, there were, i think maybe three restaurants that

black people could go. evelyn's, the keys restaurant and billy simpson's. clifton terrace which was right up on 13th and -- it was segregated. black people couldn't move into that. stokely carmichael was one of the first people to move into clifton terrace. you know, this place -- it wasn't only the press club. i mean old roy chock said you couldn't have black bus drivers because they would steal the money. this town, you know, was ruled by the southern -- i think mcmillin and the people from the south, the congress people from the south. >> they were chairs and they ran the political situation. so it wasn't only the press club itself was part of the -- one of the first things i did hear when i came to washington, d.c. is picketed rfk stadium because they had no black people on the

redskins team. so, you know, so i mean, i know washington -- so basically when king came here, what john's talking about is what we all face, whether we lived here or whether we were traveling. >> what simeon did at that point 50-plus years ago -- >> it took a lot of heart -- >> to walk into that committee. >> oh, yeah. in this town, it wasn't just the press club, it was the whole environment, the whole society that was closed to the black community and for simeon to take that stand was a tremendous courage. >> and the professional organizations, the american bar association did not accept blacks. the american medical association did not accept blacks. the american dental association didn't accept blacks and therefore we had a parallel universe of professional organizations for black doctors,

black physicians, black dentists and black attorneys. >> let me do this. we have a video clip you're going to see and then an audio clip that you will hear. so let's -- let's play those, if you don't mind right now, the video and the audio clip. >> we will not obey unjust laws or submit to unjust practices. we will do this peacefully and openly because our aim is to persuade. we are not the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself. we will try to persuade with our words, but if our words fail we will try to persuade with our acts. we will always be willing to

talk and seek that compromise, but we are ready to suffer when necessary and even risk our lives to become witnesses to the truth as we see it. we are involved upon a campaign that involves millions of negroes and the use of the franchise. some of our workers have already suffered violence and arrests for their, fort, but we will continue. we believe that with our intensified actions, a correspondingly expanded federal program of law enforcement is indispensable. >> this is where nonviolence breaks with communism and any end justifies the means, in the real sense, the means represent the ideal in the making and the end in process and so in the

long run destructive means cannot bring about constructive ends because the end is preexistent in the means. nonviolent resistance also provides a creative force through which men can channelize that discontent. it does not require that they abandon that discontent. this discontent is sound and healthy and nonviolent saves it from degenerating into morbid bitterness and hatred. hate is always tragic. it is as injurious to the hater as it is to the hated, and psychiatrists are telling us now that many of the inner conflicts and strange things that happen in the subconscious are rooted in hate. so they're now seeing love perish. this is the beauty of nonviolence that says you can struggle without hating and you can fight war without violence

and it is my great hope that as a negro plunges deeper into the quest for freedom, he will plunge even deeper into the philosophy of nonviolence. as a race we must work passionately and unrelentingly for our first-class citizenship, but we must never use second-class methods to gain it. as i said so often, we must never succumb to the temptation of using violence in our struggle for if this happens unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness and our chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos and nonviolent resistors can summarize their message in the following simple terms, we will take direct action against injustice without waiting for other agencies to act. we will not obey unjust laws or

submit to unjust practices. we will do this peacefully and openly because our aim is to persuade. we have a means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself. we will try to persuade with our words, but if our words fail we will try to persuade with our acts. we will always be willing to talk and seek fair compromise, but we are ready to suffer when necessary, and even risk our lives to become witnesses to the truth as we see it. >> whoa. let me, you know, let me tell you what my -- [ applause ] >> i didn't get a chance to properly introduce him, but i will and that is dr. john w. franklin, director of partnerships and international programs for the national museum of african-american history and

culture. that gorgeous building you see going up over there and of course, his father john hope franklin along with his father they co-edited the book "my life: the autobiography of buck colbert franklin." he also served on the documentary film, a journey towards peace, and i have to tell you, dr. franklin, that's a tough audience he was speaking before. i mean there were so many applause lines that i was -- i'm listening that today, i mean, people would have been on their feet. think of what we just heard from cortland and heard from you and others about what washington s was. the establishment was segregated and he gave that kind of speech. that had to be -- i'm sorry, but

it certainly wasn't his audience. i mean, am i overexaggerating this, dr. franklin? >> not at all, but we grew up being able to function in two societies. >> how does that apply to what we heard? >> because we grew up being able to function in black -- in the black community and he went to boston university. so he can function in white academ. washington's academic community was as segregated as any other at that time. i asked my father, what are the issues when he arrived here in 1947, and he said the big question in the city was would george washington university's auditorium be open and the

answer was, no, it remained a segregated facility. so the universities, the universities that we see now, georgetown, american university, george washington were exclusively white institutions. the university of maryland, college park. my father is the first white professor there in 1964. when we arrived in hyattsville there was a crisis of a black family moving in. the neighborhood demands to meet with the history department as who are these negroes moving in? how long are they coming, where are they staying and how many children do they have? i moved into a hostile maryland. no one spoke to us. i lived in hostile new york, but i had not experienced washington. >> so what's the significance? cortland and judy, what -- what -- what do you think came out of this speech that we're

celebrating here? >> what's amazing to me is that king was 33 years old. >> he was what? >> 33. think of another 33-year-old person who not only faced what judy talked about and what john's talking about, what simeon wrote about, but he and you talk about the hostile environment, he had to craft a message and a strategy and a way of approaching that so that we would move forward as opposed to beginning to move in on each other. i mean, when you think of the brilliance of king at 33 years old, and he had already been on the scene for at least eight years. so my sense is that i think when people think -- when people

understand, think about snick and king and so forth, i was -- in '62 i was 21 years old. you know, there were others, i mean, old people -- we considered people old in snick if they were 28, you know? i'm not going to call tim j jenkins' name, but it does seem to me that what america has to appreciate not only in terms of king, but in terms of that whole generation of people who were generally ranging from 17, 18 years old to, you know, king being at the outer limits of 33 a whole strategy, a story, a rhetoric that was able to move this country from where it had been to where it needed to go. i mean, i think that is something that people need to

really appreciate the genius of that -- that group of people that made the difference in this country. >> i wonder because i would assume at that time that most of the members of the press club were active journalists. i mean, they were columnists. they were journalists and they -- but you know, i just wonder what the impact was after the -- after that speech. >> judy richardson. >> did you mention the negro press? >> yes, and how important it was. they were not in that room. >> they were not in that room. >> when you talk about -- when john talks about the alternate universe. >> yes. >> one of the things that you get amazed about with dr. king and it's what allowed, even though we may have had different organizing styles of snick. snick folks used to go to dr. king's house to have sunday dinner and praythea hall would

go over there and have sunday dinner and you would have folks because there was an interact n interaction. he was so open. it wasn't that he was absolutely brilliant and it wasn't just seeing it on the page, when you hear him speak, when you hear the riverside speech. when you hear a lot of the speeches he's doing around economic equity. i sat in my car here in d.c., the last king holiday at the whole food parking lot, right? i'm sitting there because the pacifica station here, wpfw was playing a speech here done right after the -- after he got the nobel prize. >> yes. >> and he's talking about southeast asia. he gives a 30-minute lecture in the amazing wording and the feeling that he always had. he could story tell that. i mean, i would not move from my car, and it was cold. i would not move from the car because he brought it all home

and the historical grounding that he had was so amazing, but when i mentioned the thing about snick and whatever conflicts there was about organizing, was there not about dr. king, and there might have been concerns about other people in sclc's staff, but not dr. king because he was always so open and he was so brilliant. >> let me just say one more thing. >> yes, cortland? >> i think the question you asked, you know, when i think about it, you know, i think that -- i'm going to give you an answer that may not be the best or most -- but it really didn't make a difference what those journalists -- >> thought in that room? >> no. because you know, going back to this communist discussion, was there -- communism was a whole big thing after the mccarthy era and all of that, people thank

some of the rhetoric today was bad, but you know, when you were down there, the whole thing about being communist and i was down in mississippi and a woman from, you know, a local community came up and said to me, i am really glad that you've come here to help us out. you know, because it didn't make a difference. i mean, snick was never -- it was a big deal with kennedy and this country and -- and -- and so forth, as we are talking about stan levinson and other people, but in snick and the people who were in the local communities and so forth, all of this was foolishness. you know, all this chatter of the class where, you know, about whether this was a communist or whether king was this -- no. they saw the day to day realities, you know, the ability

to eat, feed their families and deal with terror. we want to talk about terror, we faced terror and the ability, one of the other big things that i think for king and other people in the civil rights movement is that they faced terror and they were able to develop strategies that did not paralyze them. they were able to move -- >> they kept moving. let me now go to our next audio clip. as a matter of fact, this -- the last audio clip we'll hear. it's the end of the speech. so this is near the end of this brilliant speech that he gave here at the national press club. listen up. >> we have come to the day when a piece of freedom is not enough for us as human beings nor for

the nation of which we are part. we have been given pieces, but unlike bread, a slice of which does diminish hunger, a piece of liberty no longer suffices. freedom is like life. you cannot be given life in installments. you cannot be given breath, but no body, nor a heart with no blood vessels. freedom is one thing. you have it all or you are not free, and our goal is freedom. i believe we will win it because the goal of the nation is freedom. our destiny is bound up with the destiny of america. we built it for two centuries without wages. we made cotton king. we built our homes and homes for our masters and suffered injustice and humiliation, but out of a bottomless vitality

continued to live and grow and the inexpressible cruelties of slavery could not extinguish our existence, the opposition we now face will surely fail. we feel that we are the conscience of america. we are its troubled soul. we will continue to insist that right be done because both gods will and the heritage of our nation speaks through our echoing demands and we are simply seeking to bring into full realization the american dream, a dream yet unfulfilled and the dream of equality and opportunity, of privilege and property widely distributed and a dream of a man no longer argues that the color of a man's skinned determines the content of their character. the dream of a man where every man would respect the dignity and the worth of human personality. this is a dream and when it is realized the jangling discords

of our nation will be transformed into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood and men everywhere will know that america is truly the land of the free and the home of the brave. [ applause ] >> i'm -- i'm going with our panelist and we're going to close out and bruce johnson has just arrived, but let me do this as i go across this panel. i made a note. i wonder what the journalists at the national press club that july 1962 expected to hear? now remember, they never heard an african-american speak at their luncheon. i doubt if many of them had traveled to montgomery or the south to hear king speak at

the -- dr. franklin, i just wonder, what did they expect to hear, and i -- i don't mean this to be lewd arude, but my god, w talking over their heads? i wonder if they got it. if they really got it. i'm just asking you to kind of reflect as we close out you guys' portion of this panel. >> it's very difficult to imagine what they thought. >> right. >> but they probably didn't expect the cogent vision. they may have expected a preacher. >> yes. >> but not a scholar, you see. and i think that they were probably surprised at the presentation, at the decorum, at his civility because if you r d

readiread isabelle wilkerson and she talks about the meanness, not just of the laws, but of the customs that controlled the lives of black people of any status, she said that it really defies migration theory. she's writing about the black migration. she said because the migration of black people outx9>u of this terror is much more like people fleeing famine and war than migration. it upsets migration theory because what black people were subjected to in the south and we were subjected to equally in the north was mean, and i don't think that america expected to hear about itself, to hear that it was not giving the promise of america to everyone. >> judy richardson, your -- your sense as you heard the

conclusion of that speech? >> i know more about how he and so many others were able to survive that and to really -- to build organizations that helped the community survive. one of the main things about dr. king is that he was so well grounded in his community and himself and so it didn't much matter what the press club thought. i mean, i go back to what cortland said. he knews what the black press was doing and that was an alternate and when we did eyes on a prize it was simeon's photos. we couldn't go to clarion jackson. >> correct me if i'm wrong, the nobel peace prize there wasn't a single major mainstream publication. >> i didn't know that. >> yeah. i think that was the -- it was that alternate universe grounded. >> had it not been for "ebony". >> and "the jet." >> jet was always there.

afro, all right. we'll start calling out names. >> chicago defender. >> carol, do you want to bring any comment and just your thoughts as you were putting together simeon's book and your thoughts on it, quickly. i was very interested in the questions that the club transcribed from the audience and that it -- it reflects everything that's been said. >> in what sense? give us an example. >> they were surprised. they were surprised at what they heard. they were dubious. one questioner said -- this was the questions at the press club has after every speech. they have q and a. >> they pass them up on the little card and one of them was something like this wasn't anything like a speech you gave in albany or something like that. >> right. right. >> and he just very nicely explained, well, when i'm

preaching i preach and this is not that audience. here he was, i'd say, more teaching. more telling people what they needed to know rather than exhorting them to take some kind of action and after this he was on "meet the press," i think five times before he was assassinated. so he had larger audiences than this afterwards and had a chance to go over the same kinds of things with two or three reporters, sometimes simeon asking him the question, lawrence monroe. so this was his introduction to the national press, and it didn't end here. it went on. >> and as i look at simeon, and i -- i want to -- again, i want everybody to understand and cortland made this point, the

courage to be only one of two african-americans in the press club at that time and the courage to go into that speaker's committee and say i want martin luther king to be a luncheon speaker and then think about this, to have then the chairman quit -- quit, give up that chairmanship once the committee decided we were going to do this, it took a great deal of courage on the part of simeon booker who was sitting here, and i think we deserve to -- [ applause ] >> cortland, i'll give you the final thought for this panel. >> i think the reaction was a range. >> arranged? >> a range of reaction. >> oh, a range! >> i think there were a range of

reactions. i think that on one end there were a small group of people who were just hateful on one end. i think the majority of people it was just something else, something else to do and then another -- at the other range, you know, a couple of people like claude from "the new york times" and a couple of others may have gotten it and i know at this time there was a lot of confusion. i know that we would go down there to make a speech and we would talk about not in such eloquent terms as dr. king, and you know, the q and a question comes up, and the first question we get is is it true that you want to marry my daughter? i mean, so you would talk about your freedom and you would talk

about the need to change the relationship that existed in this country between blacks and whites and first question would come up on several occasions about sex, and so my sense is that when you -- when king spoke to this audience, i would say a range of the reactions and probably in the middle, i would say probably 15% on one end was just hateful. maybe another 70% in the middle. it was just something to do, and maybe 15% at the other end got what he was trying to say. >> i'm going to introduce now if we move ahead. he had to anchor the news and those of us here in the washington, d.c., area are

certainly familiar with my good friend, the anchor reporter here in washington, d.c., at wusa 9. ladies and gentlemen, he's won 20 emmys -- 20 including the prestigious ted yates award, which, by the way, is only given with a unanimous vote of the national academy of television art, science and the board of governors, a unanimous vote, and with that let me welcome to our panel to sort of wrap everything up bruce johnson of wusa 9. [ applause ] >> i'm going to tell on us, bruce. bruce emailed me and said, joe -- i'm going to be late. i'm not going to hear most of the panel, but i think you've been in the back and you got a chance to hear it.

how should we approach that and when the two of us start talking on the phone like that, oh, my goodness. so i said, bruce, you know, i kind of want -- bring us up-to-date where are we now? where is the national press club now, but most importantly, where is the national press now and you had -- i mean, it didn't take me, but two or three sentences and then you were rolling. if you don't mind, i want you to tell this audience what you said to me on the phone as to what you, the message you really wanted to get across on this occasion. this occasion when we are finally after 50-some years we're recognizing a speech that for the most part many of us are hearing for the very first time and how fascinating that speech is, and i keep thinking to

myself how does it apply to today and can we apply it to today? >> thanks. >> you're welcome. >> i personally want to thank everybody up here on this panel. i owe every one of you a debt of gratitude. i'm a beneficiary of dr. king in each and every one of you and some of you i know personally and simeon, especially you. i applaud everything that you've done, your courage. you paved the path, you know? i'm standing on your shoulders and the shoulders of a lot of journalists out here. [ applause ] >> one of the things i said to joe is they may not invite me back to speak and it's just my opinion, and other people can disagree. i'm a product of -- of the civil disturbanc disturbances, if you will, of

the '60s, okay? in 1968 i graduated from high school and i spilled out into the streets and national guard went in and we're at the other end. i have to be honest with you i didn't know why i was out there except my friends were there and it was the thing to do. i later found out what was out there. dr. king didn't come to kentucky and louisville that often and he had an incredible impact on my mother who was a domestic, who raised eight kids and because of inspiration like that from dr. king, after raising eight kids she got her undergraduate degree from louisville. that's -- [ applause ] >> that's the cloth that i'm cut from. enough of that, i have serious concerns about where we are today. dr. king knew exactly why he was here addressing the national press club because he came in with an agenda. he didn't need permission. i don't think he so much worried

about what the reporters and the audience were going to say. he knew why he was here. i was asking myself when you posed the question, i really don't care and i'm not sure dr. king probably cared if they heard what he said. how do you not hear such a great orator and 33 years old? i've got a son older than that. i want to know what they felt, and that's my concern. because as i said to joe on the phone, racism from where i sit, isn't the issue that it once was. we have equal protection under the law. companies now know that racist behavior can cost you a lot of money, you can lose a lot of customers. people know that they can lose their jobs and of course, a lot of us now go to social media where a lot of racists and hide and that's another story and we can get to that later, but indifference is a big issue. that's what i see. you know, a lot of my friend,

good friends, white friend, went to the polls and a lot of them voted for barack obama and they thought that was the end. okay. we're done. we're there. i turned around and walters, a political scientist who is no longer with us and he was at howard university and i turned to him in the newsroom and i said ron, help me. what does this mean, the election of barack obama, president. what does it mean for black people? for african-americans and he says to me, stunned me, quote, not much. it will give you something to maybe turn to your son and kids and say see? much like jackie robinson and others and it won't give you much more than that and then you proceeded and he lays it out there and then you lay it out there and you'll figure it out eventually because we didn't have a lot of time. and then you see the president's state of the union address or whatever and he's giving the speech and the guy will whys

out, you lie. what did you feel? i know what i felt. what did my white friends feel? and my point being indifference is still a big problem with my white friends. it's a very big problem with journalists, okay? we -- race still sells, by the way. we run to a race story because it has all the elements. chance of violence, fear, misunderstanding, unpredictable, people will get locked up and it's a great live shot. it's a great chance for the anchor to turn to the reporter and say take care out there and the reporter has to do the stuff. it's great television and we don't, and i think indifference guides us -- we don't go much further than that. we don't look at why people are out there. we don't look at their lives because then that becomes tedious and it takes a lot of time and the masses aren't interested in that and our business like a lot of

businesses have gone through a lot of change. you see where newspapers are disappearing "philadelphia inquirer" today is of losing th. good side of social media is that those not covered by mainstream can now maybe go out and start their own publications but if you're working for the big papers you're avoworried ab your job, paying the mortgage. you may not have time for those stories this need to be told and explored but it doesn't even have to be that complicated. look on sunday television. pick a network. your favorite network. not fox because they're a little different. pick the other ones. the ones you consider, okay, mainstream. i'll tell you what you find. if it's about race, civil rights you can find black people on the panel. if it's about the economy, if it's about international affairs, if it's about politics at the highest level, chances are it's going to be an

all-white panel. chances are it's a predominantly white male panel. okay? they're going to sprinkle in white women. white women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action. that's not slamming anybody. that's a fact. indifference makes that picture so. nobody looks at it and says, hmm, when's wrong with this wick chur? it's not like there aren't qualified african-american journalists or latin american journalists. the same guy who years ago after dr. king and after we took the streets in '68 was made to think diversity. it takes worng to think out of your box. i mean fit's just me and my boys, i'm up here with my alpha kappa si brothers. that's not diversity. that's more of me. you know what i mean? it takes work. we no longer work atdy rersty.

that's my problem. you know? you got to think outside your box. >> so what do we work at? what do you work in the immediate i don't work at? >> guys like me, i mean, we have -- >> not you. >> i was going to say we have a responsibility. >> yeah. >> you know? and you're rewarded for that. people out here, people in d.c. elsewhere, they wae ward me for that. doesn't mean if you're wrong i'm not going to call you out on it. you're going tough or run out of the business. we're supposed to make people uncomfortable and holding them accountable. you still do that. the diversity thing comes from training, turning this thing around. it's what dr. king is talking about. i don't want a piece of bread. you know? you can count. and diversity is good business. i mean, come on. really that difficult? diversity is good business. if i want black people to watch me, hispanics, asian americans,

i put them on tv and then charge you to cover that community because maybe this guy can't. but also, it's no excuse that you can't cover that community. again, we come back to disinterest. i haven't made it a part of my training to know your community or your community. okay? and the worst culprit of all to me is the minority coming into the shop and doesn't want to cover his or her community. but i mentor a lot of young people -- i mentor a lot of young people, you know. had a young hispanic woman who didn't want to cover the hispanic community. she's bilingual. i said, are you kidding me? that's your base. they're looking to you because of you. you know? >> why do you think that exists? why aren't there more simeon bookers? >> takes courage. you have to stand up to the power struggle.

number one, you have to be good. keep in mind, this is a business. you have to convince people. sometimes you do it through your work that a good story is a good story. you know? "60 minutes," think about it. in terms of editing and being slick, there's some of the worst television an number one show because they tell good stories. you learn as you go along. i -- it's big part of my job to teach as i do these stories to teach those that i work with and those that watch, our viewers. here's something you need to know about this person. >> let me bring up another thought and i'm thinking about parallels here. we have the former snic people. you're never former. you're snic until the day you're never here. you'll go to heaven being snic. and i'm thinking now parallel black lives matter. i swear there is a parallel

there. that the black lives matter young people get treated and covered the way that they covered the snic young people. now, am i right or wrong? >> i want to say this about black lives matter. okay? again, getting back to the white people for the most part have no idea that police, police this way in their communities and that way in black communities. "the washington post" done a great job with the data. i mean, more armed white people get shot by police than armed black people. okay? but more unarmed black people get shot by police than white people. why is it most of the fatal shootings are coming at the hands of white male police officers? my point being, and, you know, i'm not trying to engage somebody where their heart and mine and all that is.

training is probably a big part of this. but if you know this kind of stuff, you can train them up front. we know that community policing works. we know that a police department -- just go to west baltimore. we know a police department that isn't from the schools and doesn't live in the community and city and considered an occupied force. zero tolerance to a police department means you got to get the numbers up. get anybody who -- if i chase you and you run, i have cause to arrest you. you know? that's zero tolerance. that happens in some communities. but trust me. a white kid running down wisconsin avenue butt naked is not going to be arrested. he's going to be taken maybe to a mental institution and not arrested. he's not treated same way should that same situation -- black lives matter, they have opened the eyes just like snic and the other groups did. >> you want to say? go ahead. >> i think there's a mind-set of

who people define. we have been in the black community defined one way and the white community it's defined another. given the example that bruce just talked about. but the thing that's going to be critical that's going to really tolerate -- turn things around is this whole drug issue. >> in what way? >> there were 49,000 drug overdoses in the united states last year. number one state is utah. the other vermont. new hampshire. these are in the white communities where opiates. >> but the governor of maine said it's because you black men are coming up to maine and on the way out and impregnated the fair haired -- >> he had to add that. >> i had to bring that up. i mean -- >> i mean, people get introduced to the drugs through opiates.

what we are going to be beginning to see we know most black people in jail today, a lot of them, use of drugs. zero tolerancement all that. now it's happening in the white community. now it's a social problem. it's a problem of health. and i think that at some point what the difference is is who's making the decision, who's making the call and so at this point i think we begin to -- you're going to see another it ration beyond black alive livesr where we come back to the discussion of seeking power to be able to define our lives, to define what the definitions are of good and bad, to define where money is spent in terms of governmental budgets, to begin to define how the police act. because i think at some point we're going to move -- move from

the discussion of just being in protest to being seeking to be in power. and i think that's the next stage. >> i think one of the main things, too, is -- and courtland and i are on the sncc legacy board in a three-year collaboration with duke university. what we did in september is a lot of act vitss from the larger black lives matter wanted to know what did you all do? we don't have the answers but we knew that the communication what do you do about grassroots organizing, deep seeded in the community, not just mobilizing, not just demonstrating and they really wanted to know how do you do that? uma comes in from the trayvon martin group in florida saying i was thinking about how do i start doing something beyond just responding. how do you be proactive and do something beyond demonstrating when the cops kill yet another black person? >> i have one minute. bruce said when's in charge. since we are at the national

press club for this prestigious moment, so my question if you could wrap it up, who's in charge of the news media? because these stories, you know, they -- look. i think ted koppel said it. today the media tends to give people what they want instead of what they need. and that's not good for democracy. who's in charge, bruce? >> well, again -- >> and as quick as you can. >> i don't buy that we tell people what they need first and then give it to them. in other words, you know, we give them back, you know, the answer that they gave us. most people can't tell you, you know, what they want from the media. you judge it by how many people watch. they want to be included. they want it balanced. they want black people covered as part of the mainstream and not just the underclass. those getting, you know -- i say -- there's no simple answer to this.

i mentor, jesse helms, an incredible number of diverse people that when you go out and do that story of the board of education, think in terms of not just people that look like you and think like you and act like you. think in terms of we have the same values. we are also interested in our kids being educated. we have some skills and some knowledge with education, business, when it comes to science, all these. does it have to be a white guy? does it have to be a white scientist? a white mathematician? you have to work at diversity. that's what dr. king was saying. you are changing the mind-set. you are changing a culture here. who's in charge? the indians are charge with all due respect you want to go back to an old expression. you know? we decide. it's a collective thing. you sit around an editorial room but count who's at the table. that's who decides. if there's nobody looking like you at the table, you're not deciding. you're not deciding. the people at the table decide. then a guy like me comes in

afterwards coming in late, that's not going to work. that's not -- you take it apart. okay? a woman will come in and take it apart. that's who decides. people at the table. nobody at corporate telling us. >> okay. with that, can we give this distinguished group of people please a round? outstanding. outstanding. . [ applause ] and i'll end with shameless plug. you will be able to hear this on sirius xm monday morning. we'll have it on our show. we'll play actually play it back twice. it will be all morning long and let me thank all of you and you. thank you for doing this.

and if it does get moved, when you come back and you need help in a non-violent approach, call me. i'll make sure that -- we'll bring a group of people. we'll keep it where it should be prominent. i think dr. king would be proud of these people and proud of all of us and thank you for finding that speech. may it never be lost again. thank you very much. thank all of you. photographs selfies and all that stuff. i'm sorry. state of the union. the president's speech. if you like -- you're watching american history tv all weekend every weekend on c-span3. to join the conversation, like us on facebook at cnn history.

all weekend, american history tv is featuring hartford, connecticut. the birthplace of the boys and girls club of america in 1860. our comcast cable partners worked with the tour staff traveling to hartford to explore the rich history. learn more about hartford all weekend here on american history tv. we're in the main branch of the hartford public library right outside the hartford history center. right now we have in the exhibit up of making freedom the life adventure smith because we're celebrating the 250th anniversary of venture regaining his freedom. and hartford is the place in 1760 where venture smith as a slave was pawned to daniel edwards and learned to read.

on the 250th it seems symbolic to have the exhibit here in hartford, the state capital. what we are looking at here is the cover of this great autobiography written by venture smith in 1798 and this is the family copy from the library at yale university. this is the earliest known african-american literary voice and it's one of the great masterpieces of american literature. venture starts his life in west africa near what is today lake of chad. in a place called oou 5ngara. they were known as herders. his father was the king or chief of the area. it was a fairly wealthy place. they had a lot of gold there. venture was being raised to become the ruler of his people so by age 10 or 11 he had already had extensive education.

and then, a raiding army comes in, captures them and one of the searing moments in venture's life is watching his father be tortured to death to try to find the gold and wealth of his people. they then take venture from his home as i say about 11 and march him thip call over 1,000 miles from the interior of west africa down to the gold coast where he's put into a castle and ultimately rode out. venture was bought by the -- one of the officers, the steward. this gives you a sense of what a human being could be worth. he was bought for 4 gallons of rum and a piece of calico and transformed from being a human being into a commodity to be

bought, sold and traded. this is the great horrors of the atlantic slave trade. this rhode island slave ship leaves and headed back. and it leaves what then the gold coast or ghana today and sails across the atlantic to barbados, the easternmost of the british sugar plantation islands and at that time in 1739 one of the very richest places on the face of the earth. venture fortunately is being raised by robinson mumford to become his steward or manner is vapt so at this point he's already on the ship being given some education. once the ship makes it back to its home port in newport, rhode island, venture, this 11-year-old is put with the

sister of his owner to learn english, to learn how to be a man servant. how to live in the colonial culture and he spends a year or so there and then is taken to fisher's island where he's a slave from about 1740, '41 to the end of 1754. owned by the mumfords. while on fisher's island, venture marries. his wife meg, we know nothing about her except this wonderful phrase. i married her for love. as soon as venture gets married, all of a sudden the quest for freedom really comes alive in him and that's why this whole story of his life is always about freedom. and venture is -- desires to recapture the freedom that he had as a child growing up in

africa. the mumfords then sell venture to thomas stanton on stoinington point on the mainland. this is clearly for the next four years venture's owner that he has the worst time with and gets on the worst. after four years there, the stantons sell him to a local just broker who brings venture here to hartford and instead of selling him, he pawns him for one year. for ten pounds. to a noted attorney and judge in hartford. this is the period and this is daniel edwards. this is the point where venture is obviously exposed to a sophisticated household, to a very educated man who would have taught him to read and who

challenges venture to go home and build a future for his wife and family. so, in 1760, venture gets sold to his last owner. a young merchant, oliver smith, who is from groughton and building a house. he buys venture, this great big strong man to build his house. and his business. and the house that venture helps build and oliver smith moves into in 1761 is still standing in stonington. venture labors day and night to accumulate enough money between 1760 when he comes to stonington and 1765. smith has agreed to sell him, in essence to sell venture to himself for 85 pounds.

as venture said, my freedom is a privilege which nothing else can equal. he's bought his freedom in 1765 and that's why this year we are celebrating the 250th of this great event. we're in the hartford history center now and this is fittingly where we're telling the story of venture's success and building a whole family and a dynasty. this panel talks about real estate which venture starts to accumulate in the spring of 1775. and real estate at the time of the new republic of the revolution was the symbol of freedom. at its peak, venture owns more than 130 acres which is very large farm. he has a dry dock. a shipping works. and he's become this person that

was brought to america as a traded commodity has become a trader in commodities and becomes very wealthy. and then in 1798, near the end of his life, he actually writes this great autobiography which tells us all everything he did, who he was, where he was from. and it's one of the only works that actually talks about a birth in africa, describes it, the middle passage and then slavery and ultimately freedom in new england. across the salmon river in the town of east hadham venture made his last and most important real estate transaction. he bought a family plot in the first congregational church which at that point was one of the elite burial grounds in all of connecticut.

and he had himself and his wife and his son solomon and his granddaughter and two grandchildren are all buried in the family plot. most important, though, is this is venture's tombstone carved and on it he put in simple thing. sacred to the memory of venture smith, an african, the son of a king, he was kidnapped and told as a slave an acquired money to purchase his freedom who died september 19th, 1805, in the 77th year of his age. venture set out to be remembered by writing his autobiography and by the tombstone. and for his family to have a legacy. all of his owners who were

prominent people in the 18th century have been forgotten. venture's narrative today is still in print. >> our city's tour staff recently traveled to hartford, connecticut, to learn about its rich history. learn more about hartford and the other stops on our tour at c-span.org/citiestour. you're watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. fdr and truman white house insider george elsey passed away december 30th at 97. he was widely considered one of the last living links to roosevelt's presidency. in 2009 he sat down for an oral history interview with the then director of the richard nixon presidential library. the interview focused on the knowledge of the waning days of johnson presidency and the nixon

presidential campaign. but he also talked at length at his own white house career. this is a 15-minute portion of his interview. >> but in april of '42 my boss and naval intelligence was transferred to the white house and he took me with him to a place called the map room. the map room was a small room on the ground floor of the white house which had been just a reception room. it had been converted into an intelligence and communications center where fdr and his close associates could at any hour of any day come in and get a complete briefing on the current status of the war because the map room staff received information from the navy and war departments on a 24-hour a day basis. information was constantly flowing in. we also served as the secretariat for all of fdr's communications with churchill, uncle joe stalin of the soviet

union and of china and prominent wartime figures. we are the secretariat. we received the messages, took them to him, made sure that they got answered in due course. kept a record and everything. we were also communicators. whenever roosevelt traveled any distance other than just to hyde park perhaps, one or two of us would be with him to encode and decode the messages that flowed back and forth from washington to him. because all classified communications to him when he was traveling had to go through the map room. so it was a fascinating job. we were never knew from one day to the next whom we were going to meet or what kind of information we were going to be handling. and when i say whom we were going to meet, when churchill came to visit roosevelt in washington as he did several times during the war, churchill who is fascinated by anything relating to military strategy and military situations, used

our map room actually more than fdr himself did and so we got pretty well acquainted with the fellow. when i say acquainted, there's a difference between the reservist and prime minister of great britain. he knew who we were and we could speak freely and frankly to him. answered all of his questions as best we could. it was fascinating. >> despite the remove in time, can you recall an episode or anecdote with winston churchill? can you recall an episode or anecdote with winston churchill? >> i think just about the sharpest memory i have of map room days was in may of 1943. he was back in washington again. to discuss allied strategy with roosevelt and our chiefs of staff. while he was here, a very, very sharp message came to fdr and to

churchi churchill, also, you know, relayed on from london from stalin wanting the know when the allies were going to move on the second front. the stalin was under intense pressure in -- on the eastern front and he needed some action on the west to relieve the tension on the soviet-german front. and he -- now that the war in north africa was pretty well cleaned up, we'd beaten the germans there and were ready to invade -- just invaded sicily and intended the move on to the mainland italy next, this displeased stalin no end. he thought we were frettering away allied forces and strength in side tracks. we ought to be attacking the mainland of europe and nazi germany directly so in effect he was demanding an answer. when are you going to act?

on the western front. well, this was rough. we had not decided. so one late one evening i was on duty alone. i had the night watch that night. there was the front door, the map room door suddenly opened and in came roosevelt, churchill, our chiefs of staff and the british chiefs of staff. all of them had dinner upstairs. a very convivial dinner and they came in and settled down to business. what are we going to say to uncle joe as they commonly referred to josef stalin. they couldn't agree on an answer because at that point britain and the united states had not agreed on what the next steps are going to be. general marshall taking the lead for our side was insistent on the earliest possible attack across the channel to normandy, to some place, normandy itself

had not yet been decided on and the british were adamant. we are not yet ready. we meaning the allies of u.s. and britain. we don't yet have the control of the air. we don't yet have enough landing craft. we're going to be fully occupied in the mediterranean. so here were the two sides, americans pressing for earliest possible attack across the channel and the british holding back wanting further to solidify the situation in the mediterranean. well this went on for a couple of hours very vigorous. churchill speaking a good deal. fdr mostly sitting and listening and somewhat amused at this tangle between the british chiefs of staff and the american chiefs of staff. finally sir john dill the chairman of the british military group reached far pencil and a pad and wrote out a tentative answer to stalin.

he passed it across the table to admiral lee who is chairman of our chiefs of staff and roosevelt's personal chief of staff. he did some editing. read it aloud. all the group, it was an evasive answer. not giving stalin what he wanted the know. it was explaining the difficulties we were facing and planning the next step. a lot of jargon, gobbledy gook that didn't address stalin directly. they couldn't agree on what to tell stalin. leahy gave it to me to smooth up and after they left i typed it up and sent it up by code to the soviet union. so i think my most vivid map room memory is that night of seeing our leaders, military and civilian, tangling and not making any -- not able to make a major decision on what the next steps are going to be. the decision finally was made,

that was may '43. the decision finally made a few months later when they met again in quebec, canada. at that point, the americans succeeded in persuading the british to attack normandy in the spring of 1944 so from august of 1943 until the spring of '44, i was one of the few youngsters who knew when d-day and where it was going to happen. >> there was another secret that you knew about which was -- >> beg your pardon? >> you knew about a secret. the manhattan project. >> i knew very, very little. again, because churchill and roosevelt were arguing by cablegram back and forth. it had been agreed by the scientists involved that this would become a joint project because the british engaged in research earlier than the americans had. but it was also agreed that

significant final work should be in our country for security reasons. after all, britain in 1942 and '43 was still very, very precarious state. and british sent scientists to this country to do work with us and it was agreed to be a completely cooperative joint venture. but as time went on, the americans were beginning to pull back and not sharing everything they knew with their british counterparts. and this infuriated churchill and we began to get a number of very pointed telegrams from churchill to roosevelt which came through us protesting and -- this lack of promised cooperation. so i began to be aware of the manhattan project because of the quarrel of these two men about what degree cooperation there was going to be. >> when you would give roosevelt

a document, did he ever write on it? did you see -- could you tell whether he'd read what you'd handed up to him through leahy? >> usually the messages if they were, say, from churchill or stalin, come back to us for filing in the map room and they're now in the roosevelt library, of course. not always. sometimes he would give an answer to admiral leahy or to his civilian assistant harry hopkins who would sometimes put in their -- put what they thought was fdr's wishes in their words and we were aware. i very rarely saw a longhand note of fdr to one of the messages. occasionally we would have some but not normal. >> tell us about how -- what role you played in changing the presidential seal, please.

>> the presidential flag and the presidential seal. in late 1944, congress passed a law creating the five-star rank for the senior admirals and generals of world war ii and in due course the navy and army came up with designs for flags for the new officers and roosevelt saw them and was not at all happy because admirals with five stars, generals with five stars, my flag only has four stars and that -- his presidential flag would appear to be outranked by military flanks annoyed him to no end. this was the sort of thing to get him very upset. incidentally, very tiny things could get fdr upset, especially in they affected the navy. he did not like many of the names that navy would choose for ships that were under construction.

he insisted on passing personally himself on the name of every new naval vessel to be built in world war ii. a phenomenal waste of time for a commander in chief but fdr had been assistant secretary of the navy in world war i and always referred to my navy. so much so that general marshall one time said, mr. president, sir, the army is also yours. please don't forget that. so the human interest stories came our way all the time. the presidential flag and seal. fdr told his naval aide who was a vice admiral, do something about this. and the aide as military naval people are accustomed to do, passed it on to me, a junior officer to handle. well, i was delighted. this was the sort of challenge i enjoyed. i sought out an expert on flags and heraldry and designs of that

sort and very quickly we came to an agreement. there should be a circle of 48 stars around the presidential code of arms. 48 because alaska and hawaii were not yet states. and the code of arms should be in full color rather than just dark blue as it had been before. so the new -- so, excuse me. i had some sketches made of the new flag design. code of arms in the center in full color. a circle of 48 stars around it. and roosevelt by this time had died. and truman was president. and harry truman and the first few months of -- had much too much to think about to worry about a simple matter of a presidential flag. but by september '45, there was time for him to be given such a chore as this. and he quickly approved design. thought it looked great and so on navy day october 27th, 1945,

when the aircraft carrier was named dedicated in the name of frankly d. roosevelt, the new presidential flag was hoisted and shown to the public for the first time. i've always had a -- some feeling of a little pleasure about this. hundreds of men and women worked in the white house. they come and go and can work there hearts out literally but presidential assistants just don't leave anything behind to show what they did. well, that was one thing, one thing i left behind, survived, because the same flag today exists, changed only by the addition of stars for hawaii and alaska. every time you see the president of the united states on television, you'll see him behind a lectern and there's the seal of the president which i would like to refer to azumi seal showing. >> george, you also changed the

eagles, the way the eagles fis. >> yes, yes. >> tell us why that actually happened. >> my colleague who was expert on heraldry said, you know, there's one thing we've got to change. the presidential flag has been a -- the old one has been a disgrace every since the 1880s when in order, somebody had the idea in order to change the presidential seal from the seal of the united states we should turn the eagle's head to the left on the great seal of the united states it goes to the right. let's make the presidential seal different by turning it to the left. but that was back in the 1880s. at my expert said, you know, that's been a mistake and disgrace ever since because in heraldry when an animal's head is turned to the left, that's illegitimacy or dishonor so we changed the direction on the new presidential seal. but telling the public about

what's correct and incorrect in heraldry wouldn't mean a darn thing so i wrote the white house press release saying that because the war had just ended, president harry truman decided to turn the eagle's head to the right because by facing the right it would be facing the olive branch of peace and turning his head away from the left which was the arrows of war. he wanted the honor the fact that we were now at peace and keeping the peace in the world. that's the story. >> and that was george elsey who passed away december 30th at 97. you can watch his complete oral history interview at c-span.org. each week, american history tv's reel america brings you archival films that help provide context for today's public affairs issues. next, july 5th shlgts