to encryption since it was brought up. i have had more district attorneys come to me about the encryption issue than i have the individuals at this table. the district attorneys have come to me because they are beginning to get to a situation where they can't prosecute cases. this is town by town, city by city, county by county and state by state. and it ranges from new york to a rural town of 2,000 in north carolina. it's something we need to take seriously. one of the responsibilities of this committee is to make sure those of you at the table and those that complete the compliment of our intelligence community have the tools through how we authorize that you need. the traditional tools i see no

different than i look at encryption and say we need to provide a tool for you to have the access to that information when the courts give you permission to do it. i could care less how that's accomplished. it is, i think, the priority and i think i can speak for the vice chairman it is the priority of both of us that this be voluntary. but if, in fact, it's not something we can achieve the balance on voluntarily, then i feel like it's the committee's responsibility to pursue it in any fashion we can. i intend personally -- i won't commit the committee to do it, to pursue that. because i think it is invaluable in the future. i fear that this is not the toughest decision we're going to make based upon what -- how technology might impact the world we're in. the american people expect us

director comey, this year to exceed 72 individuals that you incarcerate before they commit a a lone wolf event. you're on track to probably do that based upon the beginning of this year and based upon intent. i'm not sure that we can turn around and say we only got 11 of them because we couldn't see inside the communications of the other 60 some and, america, you're just -- you're out of luck. you won't stand for it. i won't stand for it. the american people won't stand for it. so i hope we're working with the administration and hopefully we can all work towards the same end goal. i want to take another too unt to thank each of you and more importantly the folks that work for you and the american people. at any given point in time everybody at the table's workforce has been challenged to

work 24/7, to address events that happened over the worst times, i might say, over the holidays. as we went through christmas, i can't imagine what the bureau was going through. admiral rogers, john, what the cia was going through trying to track down the number of threat streams that was out there and culminates with director clapper. i don't think anybody had a real comfortable holiday season this year. but the fact is we got through it without an event and i don't think many of us would have bet that would be the outcome but we did. now we're focused on tomorrow, not yesterday. my hope is that we will continue to do and to do it successfully and with that i will tell you how much we look forward to seeing all of you again on thursday and this hearing is adjourned.

supreme court justice antonin scalia is lying in repose today at the court's grand chamber. he died last weekend at the age of 79. the public is allowed into the viewing and c-span has live coverage throughout the day today until 9:00 p.m. eastern. justice scalia's funeral is tomorrow and c-span will have live coverage of the funeral mass at the catholic basilica in washington, d.c. vice president bide season a dig that tears attending. see live coverage saturday morning at 11:00 eastern. tonight, here on c-span3, showing american history tv and prime time. it's the american historical association annual conference with panels on the history of the death penalty, the 1916 election and the history of terrorism. that's tonight here on c-span3 at 8:00 eastern. every weekend on american

history tv on c-span3, feature programs that tell the american story. some of the highlights for this weekend include, saturday afternoon at 2:00 eastern, president wilson nominated boston lawyer brandeis the u.s. supreme court, the first jewish justice on the highest court. in commemoration of the anniversary of his nomination, brandeis university in massachusetts hosted a panel including supreme court justice route bader ginsburg to discuss his contributions to american democracy. then at 6:55, professors freeman who studies early american politics and bellow specializing in the 20th century discuss the evolution of political parties and partisanship from the founding era to present day. sunday morning at 10:00 on road to the white house rewind, from the 2000 campaign, a south carolina republican primary debate with texas governor george w. bush, arizona senator

john mccain and alan keys. cnn hosted the event in columbia and larry king moderated. governor bush won in south carolina and he went on to secure the republican nomination. and at 6:00, american artifacts looks at selections of objects left at the vietnam memorial wall including letters, graphs, art work and metals, about 400,000 items at national park museum resource center in maryland. for the complete weekend schedule, go to cspan.org. this weekend, booktv has 48 hours of non fiction books and authors on c-span2. here's programs to watch for. saturday night at 8:00er and, jewel i don't know -- julian boar jer talks about the search for war criminals. in his book "the butcher's

trail." on sunday night at 9:00 on after words, cory booker discusses his book "united." senator booker recounts the people and personal experiences that have shaped his political thinking. he is interviewed by robert george. >> my personal experience growing up with an african-american family, attending black church and living in an all-white town, i'd been crisscrossing lines a lot. working in inner cities. going to stamford yale. it showed me as i crossed the lines how united we as a country are. watch all weekend, every weekend on c-span2. television for serious readers. now the president of the migration policy institute discusses what europe must do to cope with the migration crisis including tightening

mediterranean borders and coordinating refugee movement between european countries. this portion is about 50 minutes. >> okay. good morning. and welcome to this very timely event that we have entitled europe's migration crisis, a status report and way forward. my name is doris miser, senior fellow here in washington, d.c. i direct our u.s. program work and so i'm particularly interested in hearing my colleague this morning because he is just back from having spent six months in europe and we have not even had a chance to debrief internally so this is

fresh from the presses in terms of an extraordinary experience on an extraordinary topic of interest not only, of course, to us but of everybody in the world. i want to note that -- of course, welcome the people that are here in the audience but we're all live streaming and we have c-span this morning and so we want to be sure to welcome those audiences and hope that they can participate by twitter questions when we get to the q & a period. in order to do that, the twitter is at migration policy. so let me now introduce dimitri a little more fully. you know dimitri as the co-founder as the migration policy institute. as our president for many years.

now president emeritus and currently of migration policy institute europe. he has as i said spent the last six months in europe around the issues of this extraordinary migration crisis that is unfo unfolding in that part of the world. he has spent a lot of time in the public yue but much more during this period talking with leaders throughout the european union and among the various individual country that is are so involved in this issue. he's been meeting with officials in the european commission, in the european parliament, in the european council. he's travelled to a number of the key capitals, particularly germany, sweden and austria at the epicenter of these issues and just come from two and a half days of meeting of the

transatlantic council on migration which is an initiative of the migration policy institute. they're meeting a few weeks ago in germany collected in one place senior officials as well as experts, ministers and others on these issues, again, to talk about what he'll tell us today. what's the status of things and what is the way forward. so all of this, of course, is informed by a career of scholarship and deep experience in migration issues around the world. and with that, i'm sure we're all interestsed as am i. on what's taking place in this extraordinary time. dimitri? >> thank you very much, doris. it's good to be back.

it's nice to see familiar faces. even if i don't know everyone's name. at least i know so many of you. after months of being the american with the greek name. on the other side of the pond. or, even worse ways of describing what it is that i am. i think that in my far too many decades, doris does not allow me to say how many decades of looking at this issue and having started as a europeanist, my dissertation was on these issues in europe. at that time, europe was six countries. may give you a sense of when we are talking about. but i came back from being in residence at mpi europe which i

founded in 2011. my colleagues were great hosts, great intelligents, great people to have arguments with, just like my colleagues are here in washington which is refreshing. i am very mindful of the fact primarily because doris and michelle and others have told me again and again in the last 12 hours or 24 hours, i got to be cursed and i got to be short so i will try to speak for about 30 minutes because the value of this kinds of events is in the conversation that follows, in your questions. i cannot imagine what it is that's on your mind and i'm not going to try to but i do want to know what questions you have and maybe i'll be able to provide at least my take on the answers. i will start with a few observations. i'll be very quick and

elliptical here about in a sense europe, in particular the european institutions. by that i mean, the three institutions. there are many more but the three main institutions that exist in brussels. of course, the european commission being the one that most of us know about. and hear from. et cetera. we do know that there's a european parliament and can be a conversation as to what does the parliament do. that would be a conversation for a different meeting. and, of course, something that we -- on this side of the atlantic all too often are not quite perfectly clear about, which is, the european council. it happens to have the unfortunate name of the word council. some people confuse it with the council of europe. the european council is essentially the gathering place of all of the heads of state of

the european union. and sometimes guests. they are the ultimate decision maker although if the president of the european commission were sitting in the audience he may have slightly different take as to who the ultimate decisionmaker is. then, i will talk a little bit about some facts because there are some things that i find even in europe the way that we talk about these things, we sort of don't pay athengs to these facts. we tend to think that, you know, the crisis is a european crisis. i will explain what part of the crisis european crisis and what part of the crisis is not a european crisis and it is rather a crisis for a few, very few, member states and why. and then i -- i'm going to have -- we're going to put up there or you have already on

your table a map because a map of that part of europe -- ignore the western western part, gives you a big sense as to why, you know, certain countries are clearly on the pathway of all of this developments. and some other ones sort of sit back and observe and they feel perfectly free to throw stones or, you know, participate when they feel like it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. and then, i'm going to give a very quickly five ways that we might start regaining control over this particular crisis because my sense is and my sense now is in minority position. used to be in the majority position. i thought that this was a real crisis for europe. and now most of the europeans and the officials in europe are

far to the right of me. they're saying it's a real existential crisis so all of a sudden i find myself in a position where i'm no longer the darkest person in the room rather that i'm a lightest person in the room. that doesn't happen to me very often i think. so let me say a few things about bru brussels. in so many ways brussels was not created to deal with geopolitical crises. it has a weak foreign policy apparatus. it does not have a defense policy. it does have the tools of stage craft to address crisis of this type. it is intended to be a place in which states collaborating with each other under the' jis of the commission and mostly of the council try to get together in

order to deal with the other kinds of day-to-day crisis and build more and more muscle as it were, more and more responsibility. i call it more europe. many people call it that. and that's a conversation that we can all have again at another time. brussels tends to be slow in anything that deals with difficult issues. it was intended to be slow. it's sort of like the u.s. senate was intended to be sort of the body that will put the brakes on all of this other people in the house of representatives. they act in haste. its tools are long-term ones. developing legislation, passing laws, in other words, takes a listening time. you need to do all of your preparatory work and then pass it. you have to negotiate with far too many others. et cetera, et cetera. it only knows how to act bureaucratically. it's not the political body. it has to be the heads of state.

and there are far too many people who mistrust the commission, et cetera, et cetera. some of these things are earned and some other ones are unfair. so, you know, this is always necessary for us to be keeping an eye on those things because if we're -- if you're being too critical, i suspect that we're probably wrong. if we're being too soft or equally wrong, so we have to sort of create a path that allows us to do things in a way that makes sense. and this is in a sense the glass is half empty kind of approach to brussels. can't do the kinds of things that it needs to do in the crisis that unfolds and changes and, you know, sort of becomes

something else, you know, in a month's time. if you look at the day da that over the last six or seven months where people came from, how they entered europe, what the composition of the flows are, et cetera, et cetera, you see every month or two things are changing and rather dramatical dramatically. in other words, you know, doris knows all about this in trying to deal with the u.s./mexico border. if she would do a fairly good job in one part unless you're mindful of the entire 2,000 miles, then people are going to move somewhere else. and this is what we saw last year. the first half of the year and the previous year was all about the central immediate trainian people trying to make it into italy. one single data around the middle of the last year, the numbers coming through italy or to italy from north africa were roughly the same as the people, the numbers of people who had come through the greek islands.

by the end of the year, the people who had been registered, in other words, as we all know the figures are not always the figures, the people who have been have been registered coming through the aegean in the high 800,000. you might as well put an unknown number on top of that while the numbers at the end of the year that had come through italy more about 150,000. okay? and the flows, who was included in that also changed dramatically. so you have to sort of be on top of it and at the same time keep perspective. not an easy thing, i know that we all understand this. and to be fair to once more to the commission, the commissioners are dedicated europeans. the commission for the first time ever i've been working with the commission now this place has been working with commission for about 15 years.

very closely. since 2002, in fact. as well as member states. and it is remarkable to me after 14 years we have been saying you have to think and act as a whole of government. in this regard. you think and act horizontally. you know? you have to have commissioners. if you can't engage the trade commissioner to do some thing tons crisis to allow certain products by refugees and the local communities around the refugees from lebanon, jordan, turkey, then you are not really helping the cause. and now i understand very clearly from commissioners and all that that they're thinking horizontally. six or seven or eight or 12 years must be engaged in this. humanitarian, development, migration portfolio, trade and all that. actually work together. which is a remarkable development as it were. you know?

don't waste the crisis or however the people talk about this. and, of course, the council is this group that meets. last year it met dozen and a half times on an emergency summit. think about it. you know? you take three days out of the schedule of people, heads of states and their entire entourage and key ministers who have a day job to do. multiply it by whatever the number of summits and realize there's 30, 40, 50 days they didn't do what they were supposed to do back home. in fact, tomorrow will be the first summit of the year thursday and friday in brussels to deal presumably with things that deal with, you know, this -- the exemptions that the brits want from certain requirements of the union but i

suspect that right up there with this brexit as they call it are going to be the issues we're discussing today because those issues are the most critical issues that face europe today. so, let's talk a little bit about the member states because this is indeed about the member states. european institutions can only do so far, so much. and they can only make progress if there's agreement among the vast majority of member states. and the last thing that we have in europe at this time for the last six months and probably for the next several months is agreement. what we have in europe is complete splintering of opinions or positions amongst four, five, six groupings of states and i will go through those states.

we have the map. very good. and the aid in that regard for both you and me although i don't have a copy of the map in front of me is going to be just a geography. what you see up there. so, let's see what it is that we can see up there. most of the people last year particularly in the second half of the year came through turkey. it doesn't mean that they came from turkey. they came through turkey because that was the easiest, cheapest and safest route to actually make it to europe. and this is, you know, indisputable. if you would simply look at the map over there. and if you, again, look at how, you know, that map over there, how people would walk, hardly anybody walks. if you are to greece and you go to pireas or the island but

where you see the mass of boats, that's the harbor for athens. this massive tourist boats that can take 2,000, 3,000 people, they open their belly as it were and there is this sort of mass of humanity that spills out. and that mass of humanity sort of separates into two groups. i've sat there and observed it. one of them that tends to be the smaller group are the relatively speaking well heeled syrians and iraqis. they come with suitcases, et cetera, et cetera. they leave the port from the side. you follow them and you see 100 buses, quality buses. we are talking about, you know, the kinds of things that are, you know, state of the art buses. they go. they put their suitcases in the belly of the buses. they get on and those buses take them directly to the north of

greece. you know? or to basically go over to the federal public -- the former yugoslav. i have to watch it here. former jug laf republic of macedonia. so, the rest rush to take the train to athens. they're going to be in athens or a day or two or three. no one wants to stay in greece. i mean, the biggest problem that europe has is that they do not want to acknowledge the fact that it is the migrants who are not only writing the script of what is going on but also making all these decisions about who goes where, when, how. this is not about the state. or anybody else. has control of this. so these folks take a day or two or three before they get to the border.

they get to the border by assisted or not assisted. by assisted i mean the above ground kind of smuggling that takes place in both turkey and then throughout much of europe. in other words, people simply take advantage of the opportunity so if you're going to go and take a public bus, may cost you let's say 30 euro or for 100 euro you can get much faster to the other end. nobody wants to be registered in greece because if you get registered in greece possibly other things might actually kick in. such as something called the dublin regulation which would allow countries further up in europe to send people back to greece. by right. so, they basically get to macedonia and then if you follow, you know, the route macedonia through serbia to hungary who was the best way to get there.

it's direct. you have, you know, extreme ability to facilitate the movement of people. everybody wants to facilitate their movement because they want to sort of move out, to turnstile sort of understanding of how you deal with these flows until, of course, hungary decides to close everything. and then, again, you see the logic of why people moved to the west. in order to go and less direct route, to crotia, slovenia, austria, essentially all of them wanting to get to what are the century's or this decade's new promised lands. and there are two of them. germany and sweden. we can discuss, you know, in the q & a why germany and why sweden

but in reality this is where most people want to go. sweden opened its doors. gave permanent residence to people coming from syria and, you know, certain other nationalities. within three months. which, of course, acted and this is highly disputed in political circles in europe and it is part of this ugly argument involving several european member states, ugly argument against each other because the ones that have opened their doors say, no, no, no, we are just acting in a humanitarian way and meeting the obligations and others say because you are doing this more and more people are coming so that becomes, you know, a big argument, has become a big argument in europe. and this kind of thing has created sort of a classic beggar thy neighbor situation where you

just basically try to stick the next guy with a problem. you know? it's not your problem. it's their problem. and you can do this in a number of ways. sometimes by closing borders or you divert the flow. closing borders in a big space over there. doesn't mean that much. unless you think that people who have used up an enormous amount of physical capital, money, who have taken chances to go through from lebanon or jordan to turkey all the way to the aegean. 300 or 400 of them died last year just going through the aegean. you think they're going to be intimidated to walk or take buses or taxis. another 100 kilometers to the left or the right. this is silly stuff. they will do exactly what they want to do. by that time, they're almost there. and the almost there means they're going to get there and

they're going to be determined to get there and they actually do. so what are the -- i have a typology here of about five or six different groupings of states. the ground zero in all of this are three states. greece, because the vast, vast majority of people are coming to and through greece. germany and sweden for the reasons that i mentioned. i know that you all realize that chancellor merkel made this magnificent gesture back in september of last year, basically said, i am going to ignore the dublin regulation. i'm not sending anybody anywhere. we are going to welcome the real refugees. now, she was referring to syrians and to syrians who are real refugees. but all of those things, you

know, by the time social media gets hold of these things, you know, those fine details sort of disappear. to give you an example, in the million-plus people who came to germany last year, 150,000 of them are afghans. you know, it does take a listening time to make it from afghanistan or pakistan or, you know, bangladesh to make it all the way into germany. so, then the next grouping of states are the people who say, no. you know? the four countries, poland, czech republic, slovakia and hungary. they're the black sheep in all of this. they're basically have found a million different ways of saying, no. we won't take them. we're not responsible for the crisis. the crisis is germany's problem.

nobody really wants the time here. we're not prepared for them and after all aren't they muslims? and deexcite the fact that some of them voted for some sort of a european union relocation scheme that was forced down their throat back in september or october of last year, the fact is that they now basically say, we are reneging and waiting to be sued by the commission but before the commission sues them they're suing the commission and you have essentially, you know, all of those examples of complete disarray. and then you have the front line states and you can look at them and see them over there. croatia, austria and hungary. hungary belongs in two groups and these are the place that is are responsible for defending or managing or whatever it is

europe's second level borders. the first border is italy and greece. but in order to get to those borders, people go through the western balkans that are not member states of the european union. so, that's the second line of defense. and these countries are basically realizing that they are holding some cards and those cards are that you are going to take these people in. okay? if you don't take them, we'll stop them at the border. because we're not going to get stuck. of course, numbers multiply so fact that if you have a closure for two or three weeks, you can clothe and eventual ll lly take of and eventually do something with 30,000, 40,000, 50,000. it's not small numbers. it's not a sirny of small

numbers. it is the tyranny of the very large numbers. and then, of course, you have the good citizens, the nordics and finland in that. these are places that actually act out their humanitarian instincts as it were and follow the rules. now, you know, there is an ugly climate now in finland. i'll get to it in a second. these are wealthy countries. they're generous but in an uneven way. in other words, yes, you all know that denmark is not, you know, cooperating with the rest. in terms of trying to take, you know, their share. but once you are in denmark, you really highly protected. you have access to the best welfare system money can buy. the rest of them, they really

believe in this stuff. you talk to the swedes, whether it's an average swedish person or a swedish official, and they say, yeah. that's how we're built. we have developed a reputation. we expect ourselves to behave in a certain way. the nornorwegians, very rich. not a member of the european union but they follow in all aspects of the rules of the european union. again, gold-plated kinds of opportunities for people who do make it there on refugees and, you know, other kinds of status. but all of these countries and i know that we all like to pick on the finns or the -- some other places over there but the fact remain that is all of these places have reached their political limit. and in the last month, month and a half, you see everybody stepping back from what it is that they had been doing for so

long. starting with the swedes. it was remarkable. colleague an i were with, you know, senior people of that basically the conversation was all about what they were going to do at the end of that week. and it was really as revolutionary as anything. and the responses, the tightening takes place along two or three ways. the first one is try to stop some of the people from getting there. the second one is reduce their benefits. particularly cash benefits. the third one is sort of slow walk family reunification and the fourth one is normal permanent status for even refugees. you give them temporary status. and emphasizing, punk waiting the point that you are going to actually expect these people, some of these people to go back if and when circumstances change.

and then you have a group of the mostly unaffected states so far. the two states again looking at the map that have remained completely quiet but if you look at the map, these are big states. bull gur yeah and romania. there are disadvantages. people say and here i haven't traveled to bulgaria so i'm not going to say that i know it and i don't -- haven't talked to senior officials there but the bul garyian guards, they use draconian moth odds but the next state is romania and they're not mentions of the shengen system and another border that you have to cross after you make it into either of those two states so, so far they're quiet. they're not, you know, they don't have skin in the game as

it were but who knows? you know? the european union's trying to harder mass don't why's borders and god only knows what may happen. so, and you have some other ones like france and the western states basically sitting back. nobody wants to go there. everybody wants to go to the places that have gold-plated protections and benefits. and finally, you have all of these poor western albania -- western balkan countries. and they know that they are next if macedonia hardens its border, there's a tiny border if you see up there with greece so if you start making it harder there, people go either left or right. if you they go left, all of these other west balkan states get implicated.

if they go right, it's bulgaria. so we're, you know, there's probably sitting thinking, am i next? and when will it happen? how will i deal with that? so, now that i've said far too many things about what's going on, let me again elliptically say five things we have to do and these are all difficult things. in themselves, each one of them is an extremely difficult thing to do. and we also have to deal something else that makes each one of them more difficult, which is we have to do them, we have to have an integrated response. if the only thing you do is try to block people from getting to greece, what the only thing you do is you basically create a holding pen, a warehouse of millions of people in turkey. and in lebanon and in jordan.

if you only going to protect macedon macedonia, okay, then people are going to spill over all around macedonia. if you don't doing in about syria, i'm already giving away, you know, what needs to be done about syria, syria will keep producing more and more people. bringing into question how many millions more will turkey be willing to take? so you have to do it all together. it doesn't mean that you have to have a coordinated approach, that you have to move 10%, you know, in each one of them in order to make progress but you need to invest heavily in all of these responses. there are five of them. i'm starting with the one that's most contentious because that's how i'm built. i could tell you, you know, the number four which is all about a

massive humanitarian resettlement but that's easy. so let's put the hard stuff on the table first. europe had better restore its mediterranean borders. if it doesn't, there's absolutely no future on this particular issue. that has to be a complete priority and that is a collective responsibility. in europe, there are far too many games being played, even for an old guy like me who has seen games over decades. we need to stop playing games and start really acting like adults. it is a collective responsibility. if these are european borders, and since greece doesn't have enough money to pay its whatever it is, its retiretirees, okay,

expenses associated with border control et cetera, et cetera, have to come out of european budgets. now, you want me to really make it more controversial? where will the money come from? the finance minister and probably the second most powerful person in europe after frau merkel has flown, you know, one of the trial balloons for a gasoline tax which is a fascinating idea. one penny per liter, four liters iffer a quart, four quarts in liter. can actually come up with an awful lot of money. nobody wants to really, you know -- it was a trial balloon that was -- that became a lead balloon but money will have to come from somewhere else. when's the biggest budget item in europe? agricultural subsidies. 40% of the budget.

the entire budget. so, on the one hand you have french farmer that is get the lion's share of all of this blockade in paris for months. on the other hand, you have a refugee crisis that affects the eastern part of europe. so, money will have to be found. you know, different accounts will have to be raided. or, more money will have to be produced indirectly. what are the three things you need to do with regard to restoring the mediterranean borders? you need to fully vet claims as far away from european borders as possible. that means turkey. that means jordan. that means lebanon. adjudicate them, vet them there. and then, the logical question because we're all smart enough here is, okay, suppose somebody

is vetted and a real refugee, a bona fide refugee, what do you do with them? you have to send them somewhere and takes you back to square one. what if all of these groupings of states in european europe don't want to take any one of them? we'll get back to it in a second. the second one is, because resettlement for those people is an absolutely essential part of this. next one is something else that i'm tired, frankly, of having european senior, senior european people telling me and this will appeal to you because we're in washington, how difficult it is to remove people. think of what has happened in the last month or so, is it, with removing mothers and their children, you know, and the firestorm that this has created. well, this isn't necessarily about, you know, mothers and their children over there. but it is removal.

it costs money. it's too long. it takes too long. and very few people actually ever get removed from europe. the numbers lie. because you'll find numbers of about almost 40% of immigrants, economic migrants as they call them. most of the removals happen by spain through bilateral agreements that spain has, not europe, spain has with a whole bunch of countries around it. so europe will have to do the hard things. i mean, it's now beyond time of thinking that we can just get away with the easy things. we're now, now is time to do the hard things. and the second and this is equally difficult and controversial, we have to stop conditions from deteriorating in syria. and here i can hear the

pandemonium. sometimes, you know, involving some of my colleagues, too. here we need to step back and develop a little bit of perspective. perspective is extremely important because when people hear that we have to do something about syria, they say, yeah. you know, the russians are bombing everyone. you know, assad seems to be stronger day by day and who wants to cooperate with, whom? you have saudi arabia. you have turkey. you have iran. you have u.s. et cetera, et cetera. is that possible? my answer is, it's possible. it's not going to happen tomorrow. it will have to be coordinated. it has to be much closer in terms of cooperation to -- i'm not walking about war but i want to give you an example to the first gulf war where everybody paid the dearly in different ways. you know, cash, materiel, people. in other words, a global effort

that will basically focus on syria. and they're going to be again, you know, all these trial balloons by the defense secretary. we all know the reticence of our president on this our president on this issue. all of those things of course are multiplied in europe because you have 28 heads of state talking about it. you have some countries that are very much like us, the french. more like aggressive, et cetera, et cetera. some other one hot don't want to do much of anything. but the fact remains, again, in times of extreme crisis, countries get to have -- realize that they have to do things they don't want to do. and blaming brussels, brussels has no armies. it has no money. it has no foreign policy to speak of. it has no defense policy. so brussels won't do it. it has to be a coalition of eu member states that will do that. and are we possibly getting into a war, meaning europe, with

presumably united states, a possible war with russia? probably not. but a proxy war, we already are in a proxy war. so russia may have to, in a sense, be satisfied by the fact that now is part of the middle east, something they had lost until recently. turkey has to really curb the ambitions, some of the ambitions, mr. erdogan has. particularly the ugly ambitions. iran, yeah, it's very vested on the assad regime. but the fact remains that iran will have to also become a citizen of the world, as it were. there are new openings there. it may take awhile. now what about saudi arabia? is saudi arabia willing to actually go to war with iran? we know that they sent airplanes or they're about to send

airplanes to turkey. and there is talk about saudis actually committing troops in all of this. so all of those things will have to sort of come together. we'll have to be extra patient during t. during a crisis patience sort of goes out the window. we'll have to constantly step back every couple of weeks, see where we are, then invest some more energy into those kinds of things. the third and i think the major actor in all of this is turkey. everything hinges on turkey. turkey holds the key to all of this. and here we have to understand what the incentives are. far too many europeans think that because they put visa liberalization on the table and the resumption of negotiations about accession to the european

union at some time in the future, incidentally no one has promised turkey membership. they have only promised the resumption of negotiations toward accession. because there is still a great deal of opposition to turkey becoming a member of the eu. the french, you know, big, strong, you know, influential people in germany, austria, et cetera, et cetera. so this is going to be very difficult. but it is again one of those things that we'll have to really work on. and we have to figure out, what are the rest of the ambitions that mr. erdogan has? those two things, you know. there was a delicious exchange of purchase like thloined, as i ba

verbatim, notes between erdogan and the head of the european council and the european commission and lots of foreign ministers, et cetera, et cetera, in which erdogan said, 3 billion euro? let me laugh, take your money. there's a lesson for those of you, and i know that many at the table who have negotiated -- knowing not only the weaknesses but the aspirations and ambitions of your counterpart is a big advantage. so if these are important but not important enough for turkey to really play ball, maybe we should think harder about what is it that they want. and what i think turkey wants is to be indeed, the person, the country, that has played traditionally for a thousand years, if not more, maybe i misspoke already, the meeting point between east and west, between africa and europe.

and if we can play on that kind of ambition, then perhaps we can make some progress. so the 3 billion euro is a down payment. people think that's a lot of money. i think it's a laughable amount. moreover, mrs. merkel only a week or so ago said that -- she didn't use the word down payment but she said, this is just a first trench of money. the things turkey will have to do will cost an enormous amount of money. and whatever it is we do for turkey we will have to do for lebanon, for jordan. so three things that turkey and lebanon and jordan have to do. allow people who are already there to resume their lives. because they've just been warehoused there. there are over 400,000 children that are not yet in education. many of them have been there two, three, four years.

a complete lost generation. we have to offer training to people. and we have to offer work authorization to people. now people will say legitimately, i said, you will say, excuse me. why are we going to do this for these refugees? they're poor turks. so you're going to have to do this for not just the refugees, but also the local politicians. populations. you're going to have to invest in the least popular or least-developed parts of turkey in which these people find themselves. and that becomes an absolute requirement. the final thing turkey can do it can do tomorrow but it has to be persuaded to do that. smugglers. again, there have been far too many articles that have been written about smart smuggling,

far too many people in europe think that these are the bad guys rather than a market reaction to what really is going on on the ground. smugglers operate above ground. the only way that they can actually move 1 million people from wherever it is all the way to the aegean, you can only do it above ground. well, if you do it above ground, you also have the opportunity -- turkey, a strong state, has the opportunity to really make it very difficult for them. again, they will need to be persuaded. they will have to deal with local officials who make an awful lot of money, you know, and pay off the system that makes smuggling always possible. and you're going to have to do really hard things in terms of legislation, you know, operations, and all that. but that's the easy part, as it were. and then smart people like you will say, won't then smugglers go underground?

yes, they're going to go underground. every weekend on american history tv on c-span3 feature programs that tell the american story. some of the highlights for this weekend include saturday afternoon at 2:00 eastern. president woodrow wilson nominated boston lawyer louis brandeis to the u.s. supreme court. he became the first jewish justice to sit on the nation's highest court. in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of his nomination brandeis university in massachusetts hosted a panel including supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg to discuss his contributions to american democracy. at 6:55, professors joann freeman, who studies early american politics, and brian ballo, who special onniizes in 20th century. sunday morning at 10:00 on "road to the white house rewind" from the 2000 campaign, a south carolina republican primary debate featuring texas governor george w. bush, arizona senator

john mccain, and alan keys. cnn hosted the event in columbia and larry king moderated. governor bush won in south carolina, halting senator mccain's momentum, and he went on to secure the republican nomination. and at 6:00, "american artifacts" looks at selections of objects left at the vietnam memorial wall, including letters, photographs, artwork and medals. the collection includes about 400,000 items all stored at the national parks service museum resource center in maryland. for the complete american history tv weekend schedule go to cspan.org. i am trying still to decide which candidate to support. i'm trying to decide between the governors who have executive experience or some of the other candidates like mark cruz and

marco rubio. >> the most important issue to me is national service. there are over 5 million young americans that are ready to step forward and serve their country for a year with programs like americorps, peace corps, youth field. this year marks the 130th annual meeting of the american historical association. american history tv was in atlanta for their conference. up next, a panel of historians explore the history of the death penalty in america. specifically the 1976 greggv. georgia u.s. supreme court case that affirmed the constitutionality of capital punishment. this program is about two hours. >> welcome, everyone, to today's roundtable discussion on gregg versus georgia at 40. before we begin i'd like to ask