working with cable affiliates across the country. war panel of civil historians and authors discussed tecumseh sherman's 1865 campaign through the carolinas, which followed after his march to the sea the previous year. the new york historical society posted this hour-long event. [applause] harold: good evening, and welcome. great to be back in the same seat we always occupied. for those of you who have come to a number of our sessions with john and jim, another one of our deep dives into the civil war. promised, and promising

each other, that we will do more. in the coming season and we have that, we think, is one of the best we have come up with. it is a neglected civil war story because of the neglected march on georgia. there is little bit less attention on his other march, which followed that march. man a look at this scowling in that fantastic coke, as we begin talking about him. john.am going to talk to who, as you heard, has written two wonderful books about william sherman. , i i think we need to know don't know how you can do in a few minutes, we need to know who this guy was? his family, psyche. tell us something about this fellow in the double-breasted uniform.

john: this picture that you see was taken of sherman. he did not want to have it taken. he is not a happy camper. this is not the best picture of him. but it's very briefly, sherman has a very difficult childhood. his father dies and he is nine years all. he goes to live with a neighbor, while his mother is living just up the street because she simply cannot afford to take care of all the children. and one thing leads to another, and he cannot get over this reliance on the has to place on his foster father. he ends up going to west point. he does not particularly care for very he does for the welcome of the get some demerits. most important thing, i think, to remember about sherman before we get into the marches is he spent most of his pre-

civil war years in the south. some of his best friends were southerners. so if you want to understand why destructive war developed -- a lot of reasons, obviously -- but one of the main reasons was that sherman did not want to continue the warfare of annihilation. he did not want to keep killing people because he would be killing his friends. and so he comes up with the idea, from various sources, comes up with the idea to use destructive war -- psychological war. convince southerners that he knows, that they have no chance of winning by using this destruction, using this psychology. and that is what he does. there is a lot more to sherman. but that is a good start. harold: i want to show another picture. certainly, he liked having his picture taken some time.

jim, in 1861, sherman is already a veteran. and yet, something happens psychologically. and there are rumors, headlines, that sherman is "insane." which is not a great thing for a commanding general to be burdened with. [laughter] tell us what happened there, in your medical position. ames: he was the commander in the first battle of bull run, a devastating one for him. he did pretty well, and was put in charge of the union forces in kentucky. confronted, where he albert sidney johnston. was building up a confederate defensive force. and sherman was not ready for that responsibility. and he became very nervous about

the confederacy he was facing. at that stage of the war, he exaggerated the number of confederates. he felt that they were going to invade, that he needed a couple of hundred thousand of troops. to confront them. he made some rather wild statements about that there were not based on fact. in the newspapers started claiming he was insane. of the burden responsibility actually caused him to have a nervous breakdown. was removed from theand, but commander of the western union armies at that time, he gave sherman another chance. he sent him to st. louis to train new troops. to take the pressure off of him, after sherman went home for a leave of absence for a wild grid and sherman recovered. became stability

commander of the division that fought under grant at shiloh. and that the grant a partnership under grant and sherman, that many historians have said was the partnership that won the civil war. john: that previous picture of sherman on horseback with a very isous one, that allegedly the site of where president jimmy carter's library is. when you drive in. james: i have heard that. john: i have not checked it out, but it is a good story. harold: let us go to shiloh -- back to shiloh. battle, tell us a bit about his experience there, rather than grant. good i think jim made a point. this relationship between grant and sherman is really solidified here.

what happened, as you probably know, the first day, the confederates surprised the union troops. that means they surprised grant , sherman, others. they pushed them back. that ended the first day. and the union troops and grant are hanging on by their fingernails. and the famous story of sherman going to see grant that night, it is pouring down rain something fierce. forhe is going to ask grant more troops. as he walks up, he notices something. and grant is not an impressive-looking individual. but there was something that sherman saw. what aread of saying, the plans, he said a hell of a day we have had, grant. and grant grumbles back, yes, we have had a terrible day. but we will let them tomorrow -- lick them tomorrow.

here is a guy who will not quit. he will keep moving forward. thisnk, we talked about emotional difficulty that sherman had, and i argue that it is because he was fighting his friends and it bothered him. but the point is, when the two of them got together at shiloh, this began this friendship. he saw something in the other that was going to let them support each other. and it allowed grant to allow sherman to do what sherman wanted to do -- give a basic order. harold: and we're going to jump ahead, out of necessity. of 1864,d the spring he committed the entire union army. he was with the army of the potomac. and sherman is alone.

and that is the beginning of the atlanta campaign. jim, walk us through the beginning of this storied march that will come after that. plan was at's coordinated defense by several armies, principally the army of the potomac by general meade. and the army of georgia, which oldnow a combination of the army of the tennessee and the army of the cumberland and the army of the ohio. three armies are now combined under sherman, and grant's orders to sherman are to get into the interior of georgia, wreck their resources, capture atlanta, and provide joe the army commander of defending georgia. thato, sherman begins

campaign in the second week of may of 1864 -- the same time the armies are fighting in virginia. and unlike the campaign in virginia, which were a series of head-on collisions between grant and lee in the wilderness at sherman engages in a series of flanking moves. usually, moving to his right, under general james mcpherson. no relationship. [applause] though i would like to claim a relationship. getting them to retreat, this happens over and over again. cashville, to and on and on. and at kennesaw mountain, sherman does attack and engages in another flanking movement,

this time to the left. he crosses the chattahoochee river. sherman,g not stop over the course of 100 miles of these flanking maneuvers, jefferson davis gives up on johnston. and removes him from command. he appoints a commander under lee, at the commander of tennessee, and goohood repeatedly attacked. hood gets a series of even bloodier noses at msr mountain. and finally, sherman undertakes the last of his flanking movements at the end of august, beginning of september. and that cuts the last railroad into atlanta, coming from the south. forces hood to evacuate atlanta on september 2. impact, is a huge local the north, the northern people

have become weary of the war, of the slaughter. virginia, during the summer of 1864, with nothing to show for. apparently, nothing to show for it. and now comes the message from sherman in atlanta, atlanta is ours. it was barely won. atple in the north go wild this news. it turns morale around. and i have argued, and i think people would agree, that it is one of the major turning points of the war. the final turning point toward the union victory, is the fall of atlanta in the beginning of september 1864. it reassures lincolns reelection. and it assures that the north will open the victory. and sherman becomes the leading hero in the north. harold: in terms of politics, we do not have political surveys

from the mid-19th century, but it had been widely assumed that lincoln was going down in defeat. he was desperately thinking of what to do at the end of august, even thinking of demanding to know whether jefferson davis was ready to negotiate, writing a letter to that effect. right desperate th before atlanta. clearly, it turned things around because he won 56% of the vote in a couple of months. what does sherman do, john, he has atlanta. and then we begin the famous march east. john: this kind of brings into focus what we were talking about -- the relationship between sherman and grant. because both grant and lincoln do not think it is a good idea for sherman to take off and march to the sea. and sherman has to convince grant isd want once

convinced, lincoln is convinced. sherman is cutting off the base of his supply. he comes to the conclusion that he cannot hang on to atlanta, so he makes atlanta a military post. though it was, fair to say it was greatly depopulated already -- there were maybe a couple of thousand by the time he comes in. by the time he leaves, and by the way, the gone with the wind is rory is a myth. but when sherman leaves, atlanta is not leveled to the ground. what is burned is burned by confederates, as they are leaving. and so, the result is that sherman leaves atlanta behind. cuts off his supply line and marches east. keep in mind one important thing that historians do not often

talk about, is that sherman had a bunch of cattle -- a lot of cattle that following his army. so they had some food so to speak on their own hamburger stand following behind. i guess. but they do have them. and each one of the soldiers is to last several days. a still live off the countryside. no question about this. and they destroy a great deal. but again, you do not want to believe all of the stories that are out there. because the destruction that was done on the march to the sea was done not only by sherman's army but by the confederate army, by joe wheeler and his calvary. and remember what beauregard said. beauregard, as only beauregard could do, sent out this pronouncement saying destroying everything in sherman's path, so

he will have nothing to live on. and just to mention, a lot of other things we can talk about, but in the 1950's, the geographer from the university of georgia did a study of one chunk of the march to the sea. he went back, did not have enough time to do the whole thing, but took one chunk and look at property records, and he found out that what was standing there when sherman came. and what was still standing in the 1950's. and guess what? a lot of houses were still standing for that have been there when sherman came through. so we did not burn everything to the ground. jim,d: before i turned to john make this argument that the museum of the confederacy that a couple of years ago, they have an annual program called man of the year. like time magazine. and four or five of us were invited to present. i thought i would have a tough time trying to say that lincoln was the man of the year in 1864

because he won reelection. john had the audacity to present sherman with this argument that he has created, about houses that are standing. geological record. john one., sherman was elected man of the year because the whole country took notice that this rather tenuous argument -- [laughter] it had taken hold in this southern imagination. i just have to give him credit, dubious though it is. john: james reston junior about 25 years ago did a book about sherman's march in vietnam. he followed the route of the march. and he would talk about going into town, and the local guides would tell him how sherman burned everything down. and then he would say, but i want to show you some of our antebellum homes. [applause]

[laughter] but he obviously took livestock. mean, this is not four people riding abreast. john: 60 miles. they each traveled on separate roads. and the calvary would weave back and forth under johnson kilpatrick. so they did cut a wide swath through georgia. harold: did they cut up railroad lines? at this very famous civil war print shows. melting the railroad lines, twisting them around trees. that is all true? john: that is true. in fact when there is a great story. 10-15 years ago, the mississippi river went down.

it was very dry and all. and there is a river that goes through jackson, mississippi. where sherman also spent some time. at that place, the river went down, guess what they found? they found some of sherman's neckties. they would take them up, bend them around the trees. and they would sometime bend u-s. to form the letters i might just add, too, there have been recent books written by women historians. towhich they argue that really understand the march to the sea, you have to understand it as a gender issue. not a military issue. i am not quite convinced, but i can see the argument that is being made. sherman did not see this as a gender issue. he saw it as a military issue,

that they have to stop fighting. that they cannot continue. harold: and the psychological toll. present to theto audience one thing we talked about privately before we started. realized, there are a few physicians in the audience tonight. and you both said to me that sherman's was the healthiest army in the war. just explain that. john: it was because he never stayed in the same place two nights in a row. they follow their own water supply. they were kept on the move, in the open air. it was garrison troops, or winter quarters in the civil war, where you had the high disease mortality. because of the sanitation conditions, and the water supply. but sherman's army was on the move. and they ate well. of course.

harold: so let us get into savannah. because we have to make the turn north. he gets to this beautiful, beautiful city. which he spares, right? and he writes a wonderful letter to abraham lincoln. "i give to you the city of savannah, with 150 guns and heavy ammunition, also about 25,000 bales of cotton." and this is a fanciful picture, at the gates of savannah. why does he spared the city? james: i think you need to go back to what we were talking about earlier, where sherman has this feel for the southern people. he he has told them, and says in a few letters and all

sorts of other examples of him saying this, as long as you fight them as long as you keep this war up, i will do what is necessary to win it -- to preserve the union. you stop fighting, once you give up, then i will become your best friend. and you see that happening. and here in savanna, what basically happens is the army is edge. german lesson getaway. he does not want to continue fighting. who comes moving in the opposite direction? but the mayor of savannah. with a buddy and a white flag. and he is saying, ok, i quit. so sherman says, fine. you can quit. so the soldiers become great gentlemaan. they're paying for their food, all sorts of other things.

from therings food north on ships to feed the people in savanna. if you go to savanna, it is a beautiful city. antebellums a lot of houses that were there after he came and left. and by the way, the founder of the girl scouts of america was a little girl at that time, and she sat on sherman's knee when he visited her mother, who was the wife of a confederate soldier. putthe confederate officer several of their wives in in his's control, protection. so it tells you that it is much more complicated then we have sometimes been led to believe. harold: so now we are at 1865. i mean, who decides what sherman is going to do next, jim? obviously, this is the moment when he is going to move north. .ell us who orders it

far as christmas, lincoln thanks him. and he says, what next? but i suppose i believe it to you and general grant to figure out what to do next. but what grant wanted to do was put sherman's men on ships and bring them up to virginia. lead.p close the , andan objected to that gets involved in a long-range discussion, just as he had done before the original march to georgia, saying no, i will march north to the carolinas and come in on lee's rear that way. they were both logistical strategically, and they faced a lot of ships to move 60,000 men. along with 20,000 animals, artillery supplies, wagons, and so on. where as they can move themselves, if they mark across the country.

says, your first march was successful. you are destroying the resources on which the confederacy is waging this war. so we turned them loose. februaryeginning of 1865, sherman moves off from savanna. and starts through south carolina. as they marched through georgia, it was not as destructive of civilian property as the myth has taken it, probably in south carolina, it was. it measured up to the myth. it was not so much sherman personally, but all of his officers, soldiers, they had it in for south carolina. regarded south carolina as responsible for beginning this war. they remembered a speech by south carolina senator james henry hammond back in 1858, which is often called the king

cotton speech. a lot of northern soldiers saw it differently, because hammond justify the social order of the south -- slavery that because they created a wealthy, aristocratic class based on the mud of the slaves. he taunted the north, saying we too.a mudshell, well, these northern soldiers remembered the fact that south carolinians looked down on them when they went to south carolina. and they did have it in. john: when sherman was marching through georgia, there were several letters and diary entries of soldiers who reported that georgia, particularly georgia women, basically said, we do not like what you are doing to us. to south carolina

even more. [laughter] they are responsible for this mess. harold: you really are going to focus on gender studies. moment tojust take a talk about sherman and african-americans. bes.n ford' sherman's army attracted african-americans who were liberated by the army, in terms of the emancipation proclamation. but i think we need to talk little bit about shermans attitude about african-americans. cornyn sherman was not an abolitionist, nowhere close to being an abolitionist. the lo . he supported the lincoln administration policy, but he was not a proponent of black troops in the union army. and he had no black troops in

his army in georgia. he did have a contingent of black pioneers, as they were called. pioneered in that context meant labor troops. so they played a crucial role, especially in the march through south carolina. harold: what happens to these people? john: in the case of georgia, he had thousands and thousands of african-american slaves following the army. he tried to discourage that because they ate up the supplies. thousand of them made it all the way -- and a lot of them dropped out -- but several thousand of them actually did make it to savanna, georgia with him. and sherman, after consulting, in january 1865, he issued a famous general order -- number 15 -- in which he set aside millions of acres of the low

country in georgia and south carolina for occupation by freed slaves. possessory titles they have, until congress to make good on that land. well, congress never did make good on that land. and when johnson became president, he returned that to the owners. that is another story. but sherman, who is not a strong believer in emancipation, i guess it would be fair to call him a racist. from our point of view. this generalssue order, or special order, number 15. aside millions of acres, later to be taken away from them. severalpioneers, thousand black laborers, did some of the heavy work in andging rivers, roads

sherman's march to georgia. they provided essential logistical support for not so much georgia, but for the carolinas. harold: john, we probably should put this on the screen earlier, but you see the march from georgia is from the southeast. up the the winding road carolinas. this is helpful. would you consider that direct in the carolinas? i think jimlek: already started talking about this. in that time, sherman wanted to leave in the beginning of january or later to begin the march to the carolinas. it was the wettest spring that area had ever had. springs were overflowing and marshes were full. soldiersan

had to wade through this water. jim mentioned corduroy. that is not something we think about. it is you knock down a tree, lay it down, put it another tree next to it, another, another log next to it. the problem is that usually solves the difficulty, but in this case it was so wet that some of the logs would float to the surface. to the surface. the result was that they had to put several layers. this is one tree. prof. mcpherson: that is why they made a road through the mud. prof. marszalek: imagine you are a horse or a meal. -- way -- or a mule.

they shift and they move. courses and mules broke legs. he is moving. --s is why joe johnson says he was not in command but he heard about this -- he said this is the greatest army. sherman has the greatest army since caesar. day.were making 10 miles a marching, doing this corduroing , building bridges, it was a mess. this is winter. cold. it gets cold in the south, believe me. these guys are waiting up to their middle. the water is cold, they have to do this, the african-american pioneers -- it is a terribly difficult thing. that is why sherman says the march through the carolinas is more significant than the march

to the sea despite the publicity the first one had. prof. mcpherson: in the march from atlanta to savannah, you are more or less parallel to major rivers, which flows southeast. in the march north from savannah to the carolinas, especially south carolina, you have to cross one river after another. when you look at the march toward columbia, we all know because of current events, why was there or was there a discussion about following the rail line to charleston, which has such an enormous symbolic significance as the police with the american flag was first fired upon at fort sumter? prof. marszalek: there's an old book in the 1930's by the .ritish historian lundell heart he talks about the sherman contribution to the history of

warfare. it is his indirect approach. he made the confederates think that he was going toward augusta . he was going toward charleston, then went up the middle to columbia. dir. holzer: was it his decision? prof. marszalek: yes. and he has the leeway. prof. mcpherson: granta gave him complete -- grant gave him complete control. do whatever you want. makesmarszalek: sherman it equidistant to charleston. he cuts it off and houston falls anyway. troops have that been trying to take charleston for how long? prof. mcpherson: they started in 63. prof. marszalek: coming to the sea, sherman supports it from behind. he is supposed to go. there is a great story that we won't get into, burning columbia

and all. was accused of burning columbia in the postwar years. his response was "no i didn't, because if i had i would let you know i did it. i would not deny it. .ut, i didn't do it if you're unhappy with that, we will get my soldiers together and come back and finish the job." jim always manages to bring up general mcpherson. i found a wonderful image of one of the stops along the way on the columbia -- mcphersonville. what do we know about mcphersonville? mcphersonville? prof. mcpherson: a lot of towns in south carolina were burned. my favorite was not well.rsonville, but barn

burnwell.ver after as -- they south carolina did not take any chances. dir. holzer: here is a romanticized image of the burning of columbia. john gave us an early glimpse of not assuming responsibility for the destruction. this is a romanticized print. next is a photograph of what parts of columbia looked like after sherman went through. they probably have kept the side of the state capital, the same state capital that flew the flag. prof. mcpherson: with stars next

to the holes. ofrman through a couple shots into the city, no question. we were talking, there is a well-known book if you want to get a good insight and the what went on in columbia. there is a book by marian lucas. was published by university south carolina press. prof. mcpherson: they reprinted it. it was originally published by texas. prof. marszalek: this historian, who is from south carolina, said there were three reasons why columbia was burned. cotton.iskey, and it was both sides. prof. mcpherson: not because they wanted it, but because it was tinder. prof. marszalek: they were going to burn all of the cotton. prof. mcpherson: actually, wade hampton. prof. marszalek: not hearty,

wade hampton, exactly. prof. mcpherson: wade hampton was one of the wealthiest south carolina planters in the south, and reputed to be the richest man in the south. prof. marszalek: lee sent him down from virginia to try to help. thee were cotton bales in middle of the city. the wind came up and started the fire going again. in the meantime, as the soldiers , the union soldiers, are coming into columbia, someone has the bright idea that there is whiskey here, all kinds of hard liquor that people from charleston and other places have sent to columbia so it would be safe. they are literally doling out ladles.n these big you can imagine what is happening there. the point lucas makes is that

there are a lot of reasons why columbia burned to the ground. either way, it did not burn to the ground. 30% was burned. same with atlanta, about 30%. militaryit was the aspects. still, 30%. it is not like gone with the wind. dir. holzer: i want to go through some of these slides so we can get trim and out of the carolinas and into virginia, then do an assessment. we have the use of african troops in the carolinas. they are in charleston. they might not be sherman's men but they are a symbolic part of the union conquest of carolina. sherman gets to virginia and has the famous meeting with lincoln. my favorite part of the meeting

is sherman trying to figure out the lincoln once done with confederate president jefferson davis is captured. lincoln tells his story of an irishman who had given up whiskey after a long year of battling drinking. he asked his friends for .liminate -- for lemonade he said i will turn my back, and if you add whiskey on the notes to myself, that would be acceptable. sherman got it. he can escape, but it had to be unbeknownst to lincoln. done.pomattox is lee has surrendered. lincoln is dead. table. finally sits at a before the questions began, we

have to deal with this extraordinary surrender. johnston decides to give away the store. sherman decides to give away too much. tell us what happened at this meeting. this is the bennett house? you have to go: back to the beginning. sherman said, and jim noticed his attitude toward black troops. sherman said that when you quit fighting, i will become your best friend. the so-called sherman-johnston treaty includes things that are very helpful to the south. for example, the soldiers are given authority to keep their weapons and take them back to the state arsenal. remember how the civil war began? number -- no mention of slavery.

that thea mention confederates will be able to keep their property. what does that mean? it fits with what sherman has always said he would do. sherman does not like african-americans. wekeeps saying over and over will go back to the good old days before the war started. i would like to point out to sherman, if he was around, the good old days before the coming where war saw a situation the south dominated the federal government and slavery was accepted. away then giving store? i think he is. he makes a big mistake. dir. holzer: what is the reaction in washington? prof. mcpherson: when he sends the term of the surrender agreement with johnston back to washington, the cabinet meets with president johnson and they reject the term.

is in washington. they tell grant to go down and take over control of sherman's army. to fire sherman. gives johnston the same terms he gave lee at appomattox. grant does not want to alienate sherman. he does not want to ruin him. he goes down and quietly tells sherman that it is unacceptable and gives him the same terms that i gave lee at appomattox. sherman meets with johnston again and does this. johnston actually sold sherman a bill of goods in the first one. prof. marszalek: he wept when he heard the news about lincoln. johnson was in: no condition to refuse the new terms. they include the surrender terms

10 days after the original. the secretary of four, stanton, released to the press information about sherman's original terms. putting a spin on them that sherman is giving away the store. subject of aes the great deal of criticism. he goes from hero to bum. dir. holzer: he had seven months of great press. which is pretty amazing. any questions please come to the microphones and we will recognize you. prof. mcpherson: sherman never forgive secretary of war stanton for what he regarded as shoddy treatment. stand on theing victorious march of the armies to washington -- dir. holzer: which is here, the grand review. prof. mcpherson: stanton went up

to shake hands with sherman and he refused. dir. holzer: we need to go to questions. great-grandmother, when i was a very small child, talked about the union soldiers coming through canton, north carolina -- western north carolina. that is not on your route. you know anything about that? there has been: a wonderful article, and i wish i could think of the person's name in a folklore magazine, talking about even before the gender of the march to the state, in which there is a constant refrain and a lot of folklore that is passed from generation to generation about the fact that it was the women of the self whose -- of the south who stood up to

.herman maybe was an old girlfriend, or a masonic area -- none of that is true. even the stories about the women standing up to the soldiers simply did not happen. you are right, north carolina was particularly famous, and going through north carolina the soldiers noticed the pine trees gave off a lot of resin so you them.like them -- light you had flames shooting up to the sky. they would do dumb things like taking one of their buddies out of the bed where they were sleeping and stick him to one of the trees that were caught on fire. there was a lot of foolishness going on. dir. holzer: how wide was the carolina army? 60-miles wide like georgia?

prof. marszalek: i was going to make the point, i don't agree with jim. in some places it was 60-miles, but in other places when they came together -- it was this sort of thing. it was not as wide because of the weather conditions in the carolinas. >> i want to congratulate all the review for making rather easily understood the interesting campaign. --uestion, can one of you one of you stated it was a gender war. something i've never heard before and it piqued my interest . i know you said you did not agree with the gender war, but those proponents that are is the it that, what reasoning? the reasoning for saying it was a gender war? prof. marszalek: the historians. they go through diaries left by women. confederate diaries left by women and letters.

they talk about events. they argue that actually sherman's march was a battle not of military nature, but a battle against the role of women in society. ofy argue that as a result sherman's march the men were looked down on because they cannot stop this. the women became the heroine's because they stood up to the soldiers. none of that is completely accurate. in some cases there was, and in some places there wasn't. dir. holzer: yes, sir. on americanok back history and i hear about general sherman, grant, robert e lee, stonewall jackson, going to macarthur and patton -- the generals, areican

a very rich personality. it today, they don't stand out as conspicuously as they did in history. how do you explain that? how does that affect our military? dir. holzer: do any give that a try, professor? prof. mcpherson: i'm not sure i understand the question. are you saying that generals today do not have the same kind of image and colorful -- >> yes. prof. mcpherson: in the civil war and world war ii the generals of the 2 wars that you mentioned were the two biggest wars this country ever fought. they are going to float to the surface, the dominant personalities. now, with brushfire wars, minor remotelyhing anywhere

similar to the scale of the civil war or world were to come you're not going to have these people being thrown to the surface. iraq and vietnam. iraq, 5000 orn: 6000 american soldiers died? 750,000 died in the civil war. huge difference. it will create a huge difference in image. the role that these people play in a major historical event. dir. holzer: let's try to get in one more question. mentioned when sherman proposed to march through the south and leave behind supplies that this got grant and lincoln very nervous. is it true that when grand

executed his vicksburg campaign he was going to cut himself off from his base of supplies when he crossed the river. why wasn't he more sympathetic to what sherman was trying to do? dir. holzer: good question. prof. marszalek: that is very accurate. thathistorians argue sherman got his idea for breaking away from his supply did inom what grant vicksburg when he crossed the river. the difficulty with that interpretation, i think, and i've talked to people that know more about the battle of vicksburg than i do, and they argue that actually grant never cut his supply line. the irony is it was sherman who kept insisting that he do it had to be done to keep the supply line going. it was a very complicated supply

line. it did go across the river. one of the first things grant wanted to do and did when he came onto mississippi soil was to make sure his supply line was there. see thiss, and you can in letters were he talks about i cut myself off from my supplies, etc. -- but, i don't think to a great degree that sherman did in the march to the sea. prof. mcpherson: sherman's march from atlanta to savannah was 285 miles from the mississippi river to jackson is only 40 miles. it is a huge difference in a logistical situation. dir. holzer: i always like to end with a quote from the commander-in-chief. let's conclude with the words of thanks that the president sent to sherman after the surrender of savannah. not quite what next, which is a

rough thing to say in that kind of triumph. a demonstration that he was always willing to share credit for great moments in the war. this is what lincoln wrote to sherman after getting that extraordinary christmas gift of savannah. were about leaving atlanta for the atlantic coast, i was anxious if not fearful, but feeling you were the better judge, and remembering that nothing tricked nothing gained, i did not need to fear. now, the undertaking being a success, the honor is all yours. it brings those who sat in darkness to see a great light. magnanimous and evocative. au helped us see light on number of programs, especially this campaign. you have enlightened us. if you keep coming, we will keep coming. thank you.

[applause] >> harold holzer, john marszalek , james mcpherson -- aren't these three amazing? [applause] so, we look forward to having you return again and again. if we could, we would just order chinese food and stay for another session. for a booke staying signing. you can stay for a while, go to the museum, chat with them, and go to our cafe for dinner. we look forward to seeing you again. thank you all so much, and thank you to these three wonderful gentleman. [applause] the 1966 vietnam

hearings this month on american history tv. weekend onch each saturday nights at 10 :00 p.m. eastern and sundays at 4:00 p.m. eastern. american history tv on c-span3. it is often argued our current political parties are the most divisive in history. professors joanne freeman and brian balogh disagree. of the next on american history tv, they discuss the evolution of political parties and .artisanship this was hosted by the national history center. >> in a few weeks the united will readators through the entire text of george washington's farewell address. it is tr