[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] next, historian ira berlin discusses his book. struggle for slave freedom was a long and difficult process and undoing slavery requires persistence, tenacity and violence. berlin also argues the as led byion process wesle african-americans. the national archives host this hour-long event. >> ira berlin is no stranger to the national archives. his association with us extends many years. , the project he directed at the time published its first "freedom: a history of

emancipation." it documents the end of slavery, family ties and private victories and challenges facing the newly freed. the new york times review of his , edwardook baptist declared that ira berlin ranks as one of the greatest historians of slavery in the united states. when people argue about what the past means, they are usually debating about the present and it would be hard to think of a period in american history more relevant to the present then reconstruction era. the arguments about whether reconstruction worked, what to do today to ship tomorrow --

shape tomorrow. ira berlin has written extensively on american history atlantic world in the 18th and 19th century. please welcome ira berlin. [applause] professor berlin: thank you so much for that very, very generous introduction. said, archivist to whenever i come back to the national archives, i feel like i'm coming home. the first volume of the project came out in 1982, but we had been working at the archives since 1975.

, we hadbeen working been given the privilege of the -- back in the stacks. i still recall come as we were of thehrough the records war department and the records c, somet 30 different record groups in all, somebody would be giving a great hoop and holler and we would all and have at person public reading of the document, usually by a letter by a former black who was

what the waractly meant, what emancipation meant, what family meant, what the -- anestablished church extraordinary experience. we had to actually leave and write the books, which of course is another experience of a different kind. in many ways, a more challenging experience. the archives will always be home. it is good to be back, good to see you all here as well. i've been asked today to talk , which beganbook

ata series of lectures harvard. and to write a series of , shrink the bookk the book down or the lectures down because it is very difficult for people to sit more than half an hour. i hope that is not true. [laughter] then, of berlin: course, they said we want a book. shrunk down, i had to pump it up. this book has gone through a theer of edification's, but argument is still pretty much the same and i would like to talk a little bit about that.

as we all know, history is not always about the past. thes incidentally about past, but it is arguments that andave about the past because its arguments we have about the past, ultimately, it is about us. the long emancipation grows out of one of those arguments that we've had an especially i've had about the question of who freed the slaves and what were the causes of slavery's demise, how it happened and why. ins is a long argument american history. it dates back to the civil war itself.

it is an argument that is never settled. we don't pretend to be able to settle it. a small book, but hopefully we make a dent into where we are. for myself, the argument was reinvigorated by recent events. spielberg'ss steven "lincoln," which saw emancipation turn on the passage of the 13th amendment which in turn turned on a single vote in congress which in turn lincoln, by hook or by crook, passed.rmined to get

it was a mistake to pick on steven spielberg. millions ofs viewers, the acting was superb, daniel day-lewis and others. ybe was a mistake. i was aroused again by another with the title "who abolished slavery." a book not much bigger than mine , which has within it an argument which again, start me stirred me up.

it's organized around an essay .y a portuguese scholar but really was put together by two better-known historians of slavery, seymour drescher and peter amer. the essay with commentary by all kinds of wonderful historians from whom amountarned enormous's -- an enormous amount. who for the most part agreed the essay and i was deeply disturbed by the whole thing. was that slaves

would not be considered the founders of their own freedom. indeed, they had no concept of a world free of slavery. rather, their understanding of freedom was generally narrow and personal. and when they generally had a improving their daily lives and regaining latter. they chose the off,r food, more time whatever the occasion was. when we have evidence of slaves , he arguesir freedom former slaves became slaveholders themselves.

them being thene abolitionists. he speaks of the one successful slavery on the island of saint domingue as an event which frightened those people who might have been in favor of emancipation and delayed the arrival of freedom. of abolition,es the destruction of slavery, could not be found in the slave quarters of the new world, but rather in the drawing rooms of on botholitionists

sides of the atlantic. one can see there is an element of truth in this. people, whenmany the bigth a choice of gaining ofreedom and some improvement in their daily bet andk the sure be perhaps we can see this in many forms. of slavery, a world

selected slavery -- perhaps this is true of free people of color, but their cases more complicated. the world they wanted to create was a world free of slavery. when they had the chance, when gue,island of san domin that's precisely what they did. it's hard to imagine the haitian revolution we could consider a proslavery event. all of this got me to thinking about emancipation. as i thought about the emancipation, i thought it probably was best not to think of emancipation as an occasion. but emancipation was a process.

a process which began in the united states after the american thelution and went through 13th amendment in 1865. almost a century. if we can understand emancipation that way, we understand something as a process which begins after the revolution and continues through to finallylum years the civil war and finally the emancipation proclamation and finally the 13th and finally the 13th a moment. -- amendment. , freedolution, of course slaves to join the armies of

both belligerence and to gain their freedom that way. war escaped in the fog of as tramping armies open the possibility of new kinds of changes. revolution, of the the notion that all men are created equal, of course, had a working onfect slavery, eroding it in areas where slavery was weak. and finally, we see emancipation of all, first in new england and then to states in the south. this was a next-door nearly slow extraordinarily

slow process. in new york, for example, emancipation began -- discussions of emancipation began after the depth of the volution in the new york legislature. it took finally until the turn for the newcentury york legislature to pass an emancipation. on july 4, the day of freedom, of course, if you are an american, at least, a white american. in july 4, the new york legislature declares that slaves will be freed. except, of course, they are not.

after july 4 will gain their freedom. before will remain as they were. drags oute how this emancipation. 4, 1799, slaves born after that day are free, but not really free immediately. age,when they come of generously defined as age 27 for women and 29 for men. , we can see,tion will again delay emancipation well into the 19th century. meanwhile, slaveholders control

the ports, control other levers of power. , we wille runs away add that to their return. child --e has a faster faster child, we will add that , if a slave is caught jaywalking or any imaginable fine, all of that meant that emancipation is delayed well into the 19th century. finally, in 1817, the new york legislature is tired of this business and declares the formal end to slavery in 1827. 1775 and ended in

1827. other states are delaying emancipation until well further into the 19th century. there are still slaves in pennsylvania and new jersey and connecticut. into the 1840's, indeed in new jersey into the 1850's. is put onss, slavery its road to extinction in the north. lean off thes throttle of emancipation, black people do not, they continue to press for emancipation.

the third decade of the 19th century, their demand for immediate emancipation begins to take a formal form. see denmark, they see rebellion in charleston. walker ofg by david his famous appeal to the colored people of the world. theof which is demanding end of slavery. pamphlet gets widely distributed through various clandestine means. , it is a powerful

force. his denunciation of black life as generally disorganized and kept in a ,iserable condition, as he says calling for institutions that will unite people that his has wide distribution. it frightens slave holders and scares a few white northerners as well. walker dies. 1830, assoon after in nearest we can tell from tuberculosis, but

his ideas are picked up by , most notably by william lloyd garrison. of immediate emancipation uncompensated to ofveholders becomes the call the abolitionist movement. i do not have to rehearse the history of the abolitionist movement here, i suspect. many people know it. i will be happy to talk more about it. emancipation, i asked the question, if we think of emancipation as a near 100 year process between the revolution and the passage of , how shouldndment

we understand it? what is the glue which holds that long emancipation together. emancipation, i argued there are four things which hold it together. is first and most important the fact that black people are always in the lead. thisare always taking and pressing it forward , unlike white abolitionists they are not willing to compromise on the question of emancipation, not willing to compromise on gradual

emancipation. they are not willing to compromise on questions of colonization. all the various compromises which are built into the long history of opposition to slavery , black people as slaves and free people generally will not have any part. they are always in the lead, always unwilling to compromise, and that is true from those first emancipation's in the north right through the civil war and the debates over emancipation. the second thing, which is true about this long emancipation, right through the entire process of the struggle against slavery is that once the question of

emancipation is raised, the question of what will be the status of those former slaves is also raised. in other words, if black people are no longer going to be slaves , what exactly will their status be? that raises all matters of citizenship, speaks to all matters of questions of race, speaks to all matters of questions of relationships between whites and blacks, between men and women. it puts on the table a whole variety of questions which are inescapable once the matter of emancipation gets on the table. that, this isto

not simply a question. question, a necessary and inescapable question. third, from the perspective of , the really can be only one answer to that question. if we go back to the declaration of independence and the very signature of american nationality, all men are created equal. this is a really uncompromising thing. it is very, very hard to compromise. black people free and slave will not compromise on that. they want. this in ship -- they want full citizenship and equality. in the debate over what should ,e the status of former slaves

the emancipation comes up again and again as the natural and thisstandard upon which new freedom will rest. the fourth thing which is true throughout history is that the process of emancipation, right , even inbeginning those formative stages where it is coming out of the courts through a kind of judicial or coming out of the legislatures or coming out of individual masses who free their slaves, right through the end of emancipation, the process of emancipation is always extraordinarily violent.

is of the striking things how violent this process of emancipation is. it begins almost with the beginning of free slaves with enormous amounts of kidnapping, taking blacks out of the states where they were getting their freedom and removing them to states where they will be enslaved. sometimes it is a physical of people ignoring the differences between slave and free. $10 if you will run down to my boat in the

harbor and i left something on the desk and if you pick that up come and of course, when the black person gets down there, he is moved or she is moved to a slave state and then they are on their way further south. , it is amazingly the number of schemes by which black are enslaved. commonthe more is taking pregnant women and moving them to a slave so when they have their child, that child will be in

slavery. sometimes returning this woman back to the free state or sometimes just continuing the the and again, we see kidnapping being a way of countering the gradual emancipation that is enacted in the years that are slavery. the movement of this kind of violent movement we see, all kinds of other forms that it get, when we begin to we begin to get a movement of free state, we

see the violent take up. in the 1830's to counter the underground railroad. placey that this takes his and some ways unbelievable. 1842, a whole family of maria kin, takes them to texas. some of these people are free and some of these people are indentured servants. they are taken from central illinois and brought into texas.

peoplee of these free thes to rows the -- rouse white population of a neighboring county. crenshaw and his gang to justice. husband andaria's her brother decide to take hands. into their own to a nearcrenshaw pulp very crenshaw's mel burns down.- mill burns that seems, in fact, to cancel the goodwill that the adams family has within the community.

apparently, they have gone too far in seeking justice themselves. the jury refuses to convict john crenshaw. instead, charles and his brother, nelson, are brought to eventuallyhey are sent to prison. there are limits in which black people can respond to this violence. the level of violence grows continually. if we want to think again of this long emancipation as a period between the revolution and the emancipation, we can understand in many ways the civil war as an extension of

that. it is a process in which black able take the lead -- black people take the lead. lincoln and his advisers and generals at the beginning of the war insist this is a war for union and a white man's war. we know that black people insist the opposite. they are willing to put their life on the line, offering their army at to the union the local level. privates andn other low ranking soldiers. their willingness to clean camp and cook food and give them on how they could best find the enemy and best

fight the enemy. eventually, what they do begins to worm its way up the union chain of command. soldiersrly when union see the very slaves they are forced to return to the confederacy since this will be a war for union and i were not fought by white people. against them on the other side of the line by asian 62. -- 1862. there are thousands of slaves working for the union army. of course, the emancipation proclamation allows slaves and free blacks, allows black men, i should say, to become part of

that army with the recruitment ct.he 54th and 55th increasingly, in short, black people are driving this process. people, black men who joined the union army come to believe that their families should be free. for soon, everybody in the black community is related to each other and eventually, congress ratifies that idea by declaring the immediate families of black people will be free. the emancipation proclamation, the 13th amendment obviates all of that.

, that is theoint truth about what emancipation will be. it is always led by lack people is simply confirmed by the events of the civil war. that oncelly true black people begin to get freed, the debate over what their heatedwill be becomes and direct with the appointment friedmans bureau and the other pre-freeman bureau agencies. debate will turn upon, of course, the question of what the promise of american freedom is end of the emancipation proclamation. iscourse, this debate

finally decided by the civil war amendment. emancipation should be considered as one piece, should be considered as a process, not as an event. always haveill these same characteristics. .hat is generally the argument i will be pleased to take some questions from the audience. [applause] there. i understand you have to go over to one of the microphones. i see this gentleman already has. we are in good shape.

>> a fascinating presentation. process,t things as a you could say looking back, a great long -- a great wrong occurred. in a karmic sense, there is a debt that hasn't yet been paid. i don't know how that debt would be repaid. it seems like a great wrong was done and something needs to be done to compensate for the wrong. if you look at things as a process. it is complete, but maybe it is not complete. >> the question of what is complete and what would settle the great debt? that civil war leads us. we continue to debate. we continue to debate that. we continue to debate whether, in fact, the debt was paid, or emancipation pays off the debt.

if it doesn't pay off the debt, what would pay off the debt? are aons of reparations question which is alive in american society and almost impossible to eliminate. it continues to come up. that question, of course, begs the question of what exactly 300d be reparations for years of unrequited labor? in the secondd address. could you put a dollar figure on it? ittever figure you put on would probably be unacceptable. on the other hand, would be

welcomed. this ind go on with many ways. certainly, emancipation leads a great shadow -- leaves a great shadow over american life. a shadow over how we address this debt. we struggle over that. >> this echoes the previous speaker. inspiring your education. this was great. i'm not an expert. from prince george's county. the university loves you. those who knows humanities

history. certainly, number two. iwould like to know, first, can't remember -- what kind of role or background but say the humanities, play, take music, gospel. art. all of those kinds of things with african-american culture. why didn't that -- or should it have played a bigger part in getting those people like the walt whitman's to influence the abolitionists? if you get what i mean? >> i think i do. i have been at maryland longer than dirt. a long time.

passed the agece when my students were born. i am afraid i'm coming up on the age that their parents were born. whether to hope that i can do that or pass their grandparents. it is difficult. it is difficult. not as difficult as the question that you addressed. that is one of the things that we know about slavery is that slavery was an institution which rested upon violence. slavery brutalized people. a traumatized people. it dismembered people. it killed millions of people. slavery was a death machine. we can't write about slavery

without talking about the violence which is inherent in the institution of slavery. , at the sameime time that it does slavery is an intrusion of death, slavery is an institution of life. that is, black people created families, they created religions. they created all manners of institutions. they selected leaders, those leaders spoke of philosophies. and so on. slavery created music. it created cuisine. a created dance. they created language. it created all kinds of things which become part of slaves gift . slaves inheritance to american life.

songs.l sing those we are touched by those songs. we speak that language, we eat that food. even sometimes not knowing that this is food that is created in the slave kitchen and served to the master. the questionshape of the long emancipation? i think it shaped it enormously. it demonstrated the humanity of the slave. the unquenchable, indestructible slave that the became obvious when northerners, and indeed, some white ,outherners met face to face

thought about exactly who the people they were dealing with. i do think that the slaves cultural contribution to american life which echoes down to the present day, during the movement against slavery, had an important effect. stoking that movement. i appreciate that. really quick, frederick douglass influenced lincoln as much as anybody else. lived,oln would have would we have compacted? douglass, without question, we can call a founding father of that second republic. that republic which is a new birth of freedom. he met and talked with lincoln on four or five occasions. douglass lived, of course, and spoke about that. lincoln did not.

we don't know exactly what their relationship is. clearly, lincoln thought very highly of douglas. he valued his opinion. it is one of those questions we don't know as much about as we would like to. i think the answer is probably yes. >> thank you for an enlightening lecture. i have a question. i hope it is not irrelevant. i have a question about the revolutionary war. actually, two questions, one about the revolutionary war, the other about civil war. i wanted to know, was there any compensation given to the

soldiers that fought for the american revolution? enslaved blacks who fought and where they granted freedom in the same way that lord dunmore had granted freedom to enslaved blacks who fought for the british? more fought for the british. i wonder, what kind of compensation? i don't imagine the people would theirhought knowing families would still be enslaved. i always had this feeling where they were granted their freedom and perhaps -- can you address that? the second question i have is about the oil leak -- the loyal league. i want another medical will and abolition in the civil war. >> i am not sure who you are referring to. north carolina?

>> i think the loyal league, number of abolitionists, some of them based in d.c.. frederick douglass was a part of it. it is something harry jones talks about. they talk about it at the african-american civil war museum. it might have been a secret society. they were doing a lot of things. >> i'm afraid the secret society loses me. let me answer your first question. i think two things. if you thought in the national -- if you fought and the national army in washington, you would be free. you would gain a pension. we know that black people, right from the records in the national archives, if we can identify people fighting in the national pensioney did collect a

on the same basis that white soldiers did. not a great deal of money for either white or black. it was worth something. aged, that little bit of money was probably quite important. the people who fought in the revolution were raised not by the continental congress, but by the state. different states behaved in different ways. even some states behaved in different ways within that state. statesly, northern respected the deal that they made. people would gain their freedom.

>> what about their families? >> not so. not so much. they would gain their freedom, not so much their families. whatever compensation they would at, both in pay and in pension or some kind of bonus, they would get, as well. south, south carolina, georgia, they would have nothing to do with the question of recruiting blacks. virginia, north carolina, did, for theaware most part. they did the right thing. they freed those people. who were sent as substitutes for their masters. people whothose

in whatever the maryland or virginia line. that freedom was respected. i am afraid, sometimes it was not. in those metal states, you have to go case-by-case. thank you very much. berlin, i was wondering if you have studied emancipation and other slave holding countries or societies and if you could, give us some contrast with the emancipation process in the u.s.. >> slavery is an institution that goes all over the atlantic world. of course, it appears in other

societies as well as serfdom and so on. each of these societies has their day of jubilee. -- endtish and slavery slavery in 1832. 1833, they establish a system of for aured servitude period. that breaks down very quickly. towel.tish throw in the slavery in end of the various caribbean islands and other places which slavery exists. french have a totally different case. duringolutionary french

the revolution, after issuing the declaration of the rights of , at first, grudgingly, but slavery, napoleon comes in. .e re-imposes slavery slavery is ended by the slaves themselves. the rest of the french empire, not until the 1840's. here, we have a very different kind of emancipation. each of these different emancipation's takes a slightly different form. our first rulet

applies in all of these societies. all of these societies, the most determined foes of slavery are the slaves themselves. they are the strongest and allies are free blacks. they continue to press for a emancipation, demand emancipation. the immediate and the uncompensated. if we look at the atlantic world, we see a panache of different emancipation's. historians of slavery, being who they are, are not only interested in the slave trade as orwhether it goes to rio

bridgetown or charleston, they were also ended -- interested in the end of slavery. you can find numerous books on the various emancipation's. >> thank you, dr. berlin, for your presentation. you answer part of my question. thesecond part is during patient revolution, what do you think was the psychic among the slaveholders and the psychic among the slaves in reference to that revolution? what impact did that revolution have on the slaveholders in the united states and the slaves? >> everybody in the world knows about what happened on the

island of san domain. the bottom rail was placed on top. the slaves defeated them. the slaves are created not only emancipation, but they ripped the white out of the french flag. the way you become a citizen of haiti is your of african descent. eventually, these people created a separate black republic. everywhere. inescapable news. it is a singular event in history. everybody knows about it. if you are living in charleston, some guy who was a tailor but who was once a great planter on

domain on thesan island of espanola. in see what could happen that other world. you could imagine what could happen. if you couldn't imagine, the imagination of many other people that with to add to the stories of enormous violence . there was a notice violence, but the violence was ratcheted and it ratcheted up for popular white consumption to give an example of what would happen if such were to happen, such were to happen here of raping children bayoneted. all of the rest. as for how it affected the slaves, exactly the same way.

that reallyhings striking, as the civil war begins and as union soldiers a strikingve south, number. you can say a lot, but a --iking number of children this message of what freedom deificationnd the .s just one example that understanding. this is not something we will the about in a way that masses could hear, we know that once this happens, and they were

successful, and if they were successful, maybe we could be successful, the civil war begins and now is our chance. all of that begins to play out. thank you all. [applause] [indiscernible] >> interested in american history tv?