response to the heroin epidemic. later boyd rutherford will join us to talk about the open yoid task force. be sure to watch c-span's washington journal beginning at 7:00 eastern on friday morning. join the discussion. next on american history tv, historians discuss general sherman's march flew georgia. after that, historian dennis fry talks about the impact of john brown's raid in the 1860 presidential election. a forum on the role of women in the civil war. a panel of civil war historians and authors discuss union general william ta couple is a sherman's 1865 campaign through the carolinas, which followed after his famed march to the sea through georgia the

previous year. they compare sherman's goals. the new york historical society hosted this hour long event. welcome, it's great to be back in the same seats as we always occupy. for those of you who have come to a number of our sessions. we are promised and we are promising each other that we'll do more in the coming seasons. we have a topic today that we think is one of the best that we've come up with, it's a neglected civil war story. because of the focus on

sherman's march through georgia. there's a little less attention on sherman's other march, which followed the march through georgia. take a look at this scowling man in a fantastic coat, as we begin talking about him. i'm going to start with john who as you heard has written two wonderful books about william sherman, and i think we need to know how you can do it in a few minutes his family, his psyche, tell us something about this fellow in the double breasted uniform coat. >> this picture that you see was taken of sherman and he didn't want to have that picture taken 37 he's not a happy camper, this is not the best picture of him. very briefly, sherman has a very

difficult childhood. his father dies when he's nine years old. he lives with a neighbor while his mother is living up the street. because she simply can't afford to take care of all the children. and one thing leads to another. throughout his life, he never quite gets over this reliance that he has to place on thomas ewey, his foster father. he ends up going to west point. he gets too many demare its. the most important thing to remember about sherman before we get into the marches is, he spent most of his precivil war years in the south. and some of his best friends were southerners if you want to understand why destructive war developed. a lot of reasons, obviously, one of the main reasons was sherman did not want to continue the

warfare of annihilation he didn't want to keep killing people, because he would be killing his friends. he comes up with the idea from various sources. comes up with the idea to use destructive war. psychological war. convince southerers who he knows, that they have no chance of winning, by using this destruction. by using the psychology. and that's what he does. there's a lot more to sherman, but i think -- >> that's a good start. i wab the to show another picture. clearly he liked having his picture taken sometime. there's a lot of pictures of william sherman. >> yeah. jim, in 1861, sherman is already a veteran. and yet something happens psychologically. there are headlines that sherman

is quote -- tell us what happened there in your medical assessment. >> sherman was a command. devastating experience for him. he did pretty well, he was put in charge of the union forces in kentucky. he confronted sydney johnston. was building a defensive force. and sherman wasn't ready for that responsibility. and he became very nervous about the confederates he was facing. like mcclellan at that stage of the war, he exaggerated the number of confederates he saw, that he felt that they were going to invade, that he needed a couple hundred thousand troops

to confront them. and he made some rather wild statements about that that were not based on fact. the newspapers started claiming he was insane. the burden of the responsibility caused him to have a nervous breakdown fortunately, general henry halek, who was in command of all of the western union armies at that stage of the war gave sherman another chance to send st. louis to train new troops. sherman went home for a leave of absence for a while. and sherman recovered his stability that fought under grad. that began the partnership between grant and sherman which as many historians have said, the partnership that won the civil war.

>> just to add something, the previous picture. sherman on horseback is a famous one. and that allegedly is the sight of where the jimmy carter library is, as you drive in, there's a circle there. whether it is or not, i've never checked out the story. >> sherman at shiloh, first major battle as grant's lieutenants. tell us about his experience there -- >> this is where i think the relationship between grant and sherman is solidified. what happens as you probably know, the first day the confederates surprised the union troops pushed them back.

at the end of the first day, grant and the union troops are hanging on by their finger nails. and the famous story of sherman going to see grant that night. it's pouring down rain. and he's going to ask grant for the retreat orders. grant is not an impressive looking individual, there was something thatq8[: sherman saw instead of saying what are the retreat plans he says, hellof a day we've had. >> yes, we have had a terrible day, but we'll lick 'em tomorrow. sherman is taken aback. here's a guy that's not going to quit. he's going to keep moving forward. i think you talked about what jim and harold were talking about, the emotional difficulty that sherman had, and i argue

that it's because he was fighting his friends and it bothered him, the point is, when the the two of them got together, this began this friendship. each saw something in the other that was going to let them support each other and allowed grant to allow sherman to do what sherman wanted to do, give very basic orders. >> we're going to jump ahead out of necessity, grant heads east in the spring of 1864 to take kmabd of the entire union army and base himself with the army of the potomac. and sherman is alone and that's the beginning of the atlantic campaign. walk us through the capture of atlanta and the beginning of this storied martha will come after that. >> grant's plan was a coordinated offensive.

principally the army of the potomac in virginia. the army of georgia which was now a combination of the old army of the tennessee, cumberland and ohio. three armies are now combined under sherman and grants orders are to get into the interior of georgia, wreck their war resources and capture atlanta and drive joe johnston, commander of the confederate army of tennessee defending georgia, out of georgia. and so they -- sherman begins that campaign in the second week of may at the same time the armies are fighting in virginia, unlike the campaigns in virginia, which were a series of head on collisions between grant

and lee, sherman engages in a series of flanking moves. usually moving to his right under general james mcpherson, no relationship although i'd like to claim we were related. getting into the confederate rear, forcing them to retreat. this happens over and over again from dalton to rosaka, and from rosaka to cassville and on and on. and at kennesaw mountain sherman does attack and gets a bloody nose. crosses the chattahoochee river and johnston retreats to the defenses of atlanta having not stopped sherman over the course of nearly miles and

jefferson davis gives up on johnston and appoints john bell hood a fighter as commander of the army of tennessee. hood repeatedly attacks sherman, trying to drive him back from atlanta and hood gets a series of bloody noses. finally, sherman undertakes the last of his flanking moments at the end of august cuts the last railroad into atlanta coming in from the south forces hood to evacuate atlanta on september 2nd. and that has a huge political impact in the north, northern people have become wary of the war and the slaughter, especially in virginia, during the summer of 1864, with nothing to show for it. or apparently nothing to show for it. and now comes the message from atlanta, from sherman. atlanta is ours.

and fairly won. people in the north go upset at this news. it's one of the major turning points of the war -- the nina turning point toward union victory is the6f4í fall of atl at the beginning of september 1864, it ensures lincoln's re-election. it ensures the north is going to prosecute this war to ultimate victory. and sherman becomes the leading he hero. >> in terms of politics, we don't have political surveys, but it had been widely assumed lincoln was going down to defeat -- he was desperately thinking what to do at the end of august, demanding to know whether jefferson davis was able

to getting other yat. he was desperate right before atlanta and it clearly turned things around. he won 56% of the vote in a couple months. what does sherman do, john. he has atlanta. fairly taken, and then we begin the famous march east. >> this brings into focus what we were talking about, the relationship between sherman and grant. both grant and lincoln don't think it's a good idea for sherman to take off and march to the sea. and sherman has to convince grant and once grant is convinced, then lincoln is convinced. basically, what sherman is doing, he's cutting off the base of his supplies. he comes to the conclusion that he can't hang on to atlanta.

so he makes atlanta a military post he depopulates it. it was already depopulated a great deal. it was about 20,000 when the war began. by the time he leaves, and by the way, the gone with the wind story is a myth. when sherman leaves atlanta is not leveled to the ground and what is burned has been burned by confederates as they're leaving so the result is, that sherman leaves atlanta behind. cuts off his supply line and marching east. keep in mind one important thing. sherman had a bunch of cattle, a lot of cattle following his army, they had some food. they had their own hamburger stand following behind i guess. they do have that, and each one

of the soldiers is given a food to last several days. now, they still live off the countryside, no question about this. and they destroy a great deal. and again, you don't want to believe all the stories that are out there, because the destruction that was done on the march to the sea was done not only by sherman's army, but also by the confederate army, by joe wheeler and his calvary. remember what beauregard said. he said destroy everything in sherman's path so he will have nothing to live on. in the 1950s, a geographer from the university of georgia did a study of one chunk of the march

to the sea. he took one chunk of it and found out what was standing there when sherman came and what was still standing there in the 1950s. guess what? a lot of houses were still standing there that have been there when sherman came through. he didn't burn everything to the ground. >> john made this argument at the museum of the confederacy. a couple years ago, they have an annual program called man of the year. four or five of us were invited to present. i thought i was going to have a tough time saying lincoln was the man of the year in 1864 because he won re-election. john had the audacity to present sherman with this argument he's created about houses that are standing and this geological record. guess what, john won sherman was

elected man of the year, he got national press. the whole country took notice that this rather tenuous argument had taken hold in the southern imagination. i just had to give him credit for that achievement, dubious achievement. >> along those lines, james resten jr. about 25 years ago did a book called sherman's march in vietnam. he talked to people along the way and he would go into a town. the local guy would tell him, sherman burned everything down. then he would say, but i want to show you some of our antebellum homes. >> that's right. >> how wide. i mean, this is not four people riding a breadth. how wide?

>> 60 mile swath. there were four army core in sherman's army, they each travelled on separate roads, the calvary would weave back and forth, they did cut a wide swath through georgia. >> did they leave. >> they did leave. >> did they cut up railroad lines as this very famous civil war print shows? >> oh, yeah, exactly. >> making sherman's bow ties by melting railroad lines twisting them around trees? >> that's all true. it was one of these great stories, you remember 10, 15 years ago, the mississippi river went down? it was very dry and all. there's a river that goes where sherman also spent some time. at that place in the river where it went down. they found some of sherman's

neckties. they would take the rails, bend them around the tree, sometimes they would bend them to form the letters u.s. to make the point. but jim's point is very well taken. i might add, there have been some recent books written by women historians in which they argue that to really understand the march to the sea, you have to understand it as a gender issue, not a military issue the same way. i'm not quite convinced, but i can see the argument that's being made. certainly sherman didn't see it as a gender issue, he saw it as a military issue to convince the south they have to stop fighting. they can't continue. >> and the psychological toll. >> yes. >> i want to present to the audience one thing we talked about privately before we started, i hadn't realized, i know there are a few physicians

in the audience tonight. and you both said to me that sherman's was the healthiest army in the war. just explain that? >> it's because they never stayed in the same place two nights in a row. they didn't follow their own water supply, they kept on the move in the open air. it was garrison troops in the civil war or winter quarters in the serve el war where you had to high disease mortality. sherman's army was on the move. >> and they ate well? >> they ate well, of course. >> it's a fascinating sidebar. >> let's get him to savannah, we have to make the turn north. he gets to this beautiful city, which he spares. and he writes a wonderful letter

to abraham lincoln. i beg to present to you as a christmas gift, the city of savannah with 150 heavy guns and plenty of ammunition and also 25,000 bails of cotton. this is a fanciful picture by a german artist at the gates of savann savannah. why does he spare the city? >> i think you need to go back to what we were talking about early, shermen has this feel for the southern people, and he's told them, he says, you can see letters and all sorts of other examples of him saying this, as long as you fight -- as long as you keep this war up, i will do what's necessary to win it, to preserve the union. but once you stop fighting, once

you give up then i will become your best friend. and you see that happening, and here in savannah what happens is, the army is on the edge of savannah, hardy has run away, and sherman lets him get away, he doesn't want to continue fighting. as they move into town, who comes in the opposite direction but the mayor of savannah in a buggy with a white flag. i quit. fine, you quit. the soldiers become great gentlemen. they're paying for their food, doing all sorts of other things. sherman brings food from the north on ships to feed people in savannah. you go to savannah today it is a beautiful city and there are a lot of antebellum houses there that were there and stayed after

sherman left. the founder of the girl scouts of america sat on sherman's knee when he visited her mother the wife of a confederate soldier. they put several of their wives in sherman's control or in sherman's protection it tells you, it's much more complicated than we've sometimes been led to believe. >> now we're at 1865? and why -- i mean, who decides what sherman is going to do next and obviously this is our moment when he's going to move forth tell us who ordered it and what the point was. >> in response to sherman giving savannah to lincoln for christmas, lincoln thanks him and says, well, what next? i suppose i'll leave it to you,

and general grant to figure out what to do next. what grant wanted to do was to put sherman's men on ships and bring them up to virginia to help close out lee. sherman objected to that, and gets involved in a long range discussion with grant just as he did before the original march to georgia, saying no, i'll march through the carolinas, come in on lee's rear that way. it takes a lot of ships to move 60,000 men along with 20,000 animals, artillery, supplies, wagons and so on wrapz sherman, they can move themselves if they march across country again, grant says, well, all right, your first march was successful and you're destroying the resources on which the confederacy is waging this war. he turns them loose.

at the beginning of february 1865, sherman moves out from savannah and starts through south carolina if the march through georgia was not as destructive of civilian property, probably in south carolina it was. >> right. >> it measured up to the myth, because not so much sherman personally, but all of his men, his officers, his soldiers, they had it in for south carolina. they regarded south carolina as responsible for beginning this war. they remember a speech by james henry hammonbeck in 1858. a lot of northern soldiers would have called it the mud sill speech. he justified the social order of the south, slavery, it created a

wealthy aristocratic class of the slaves. he taunted the north saying, we have a mud sill of slaves 37 you have a mud sill too. they called themselves free. well, these northern soldiers remembered the fact that south carolinans looked at them as mud sills when they went through south carolina and they did have it in. >> it's interesting too that when sherman was marching through georgia, there were several letters and diary entries of soldiers who reported that georgian women basically said, we don't like what you're doing to us, but give it to south carolina even more. they're responsible for us being in this mess. that fits in to what was said. >> you really are going to focus on gender studies. >> yeah. >> i want to take one moment to

talk about sherman and flynn americans. this is an edwin forbes drawing of stranglers. so i assume that sherman's armies attracted african-americans who were liberated by the army under the terms of the emancipation proclamation. i think we need to talk a little bit about sherman's attitudes about african-americans. >> he was not an abolitionist. he wasn't anywhere close to being an abolitionist. he supported the emancipation proclamation and the lincoln administration's emancipation policy. he was not a proponent of black troops in the army. and he had no black troops in his army in georgia. he had a contingent of black pioneers, as they were called. that meant labor troops.

they played a crucial role, especially in the march through south carolina. >> what happened to these people who attached themselves to the army. >> in the case of georgia, he had thousands of african-american slaves following the army, he tried to discourage that, because they ate up supplies, several thousand of them made it to savannah, a lot of them dropped out several thousand made it to savannah with him. and sherman after consulting with secretary of war stanton, in january 1865, issued a famous order 15, in which he set aside millions of acres of the low country in georgia and south carolina for occupation by freed slaves. with whatever possessory titles until congress can make good that land. congress never did make good

that land. andrew johnson, when he became president returned the land to its owners, that's another story. sherman is not a strong believer in emancipation. it would be fair to call him a racist from our point of view. but he does issue this general order or special order? >> special order. setting aside thousands and thousands of acres for freed slaves. >> later to be taken away from. >> the pioneers, several thousand black laborers did some of the heavy work bridging rivers, cord roying roads, in sherman's march to virginia. they provided logistical support through the carolinas. >> we have -- probably should have put this up on the screen

earlier. >> you see the march from georgia is southeast and sort of winding road up the carolinas, this is helpful. why is the path so -- would you consider that direct in the carolinas? >> well, i think jim already began talking about this, that period of time, sherman wanted to leave beginning of january, a little later to begin the march to the carolinas, it was the wettest spring that area had had, streams were overflowing, marshes were full. these soldiers had to march -- wade through this kind of water, jim mentioned couroroying. it basically is, you knock down a tree, you lay it down on the ground, put another tree next to it, another tree next to,

another log next to it. the problem is, that usually solves the difficulty, but in this case, it was so wet that some of these logs would go down and float up to the surface and the result was that they had to put several layers, this was incredibly difficult. >> this is one tree? >> it's hard to believe this. >> that's how you made a road through the mud. >> that's right. >> we're building the second avenue subway in new york. it's a much slower process. >> imagine you're a horse or a mule. these things don't stay neatly. they shift and they move. horses broke away. >> he's managing. >> joe johnston says he was not in command at this time. he said, this is the greatest

army, sherman has the greatest army since ceasar that they could accomplish what they did, they were making ten miles a day. marching -- you know, doing this cordouroing, and everything else, building bridges, it was a mess. remember, this is winter. it's cold. it does get cold in the south. believe me. the water's cold and they have to do this and the african-american pioneers have to -- it's a terribly difficult thing. that's why sherman says the march through the carolinas is much more significant than the march to the sea. despite the publicity that the first one gets. >> in the march from atlanta to savannah, you're more or less parallel to major rivers which flow southeast. in the march north from savannah

through the carolinas you have to cross one river after another. >> was there ever, as we look at the march toward columbia. why was there -- or was there a discussion about following the rail line to sharls ston which has enormous significance as the place where the american flag was first fired on at sumpter. >> there's an old book done in the 1930s by lidell hart, he talks about that sherman's great contribution to history of warfare and all is his indirect approach. he made the confederates think he was going toward augusta. he was going to recall charleston and then he went up the middle to columbia. >> is it his decision or? >> yes, yes.

>> he has the leeway to not capture, not go after charleston? >> grant gave him complete carte branch. do it the way you want. >> the thing about charleston, once sherman makes it equal distance to charleston, he's cut it off, charleston falls anyway. despite -- the irony is, union troops have been trying to take charleston for -- >> they started in '63. coming through the sea. sherman just supports it from behind. this drives confederates crazy. he's supposed to go, there's a great story about -- we're going to get into in columbia. who burned columbia, all the rest. sherman was accused of burning columbia in the post war years. his response was, no, i didn't, if i had, i would let you know i did it, i would not deny it, i

didn't do it, if you are unhappy with that, i'll be happy to call my soldiers back together and we'll come back and finish the job. >> before we get to columbia jim always manages to bring up general james mcpherson. one of the stops along the way to columbia, mcphersonville. what do we know about that the burning of mcphersonville. >> alet of towns in south carolina got burn ed, barn well well after known as burnwell. >>. >> a lot of south carolina -- i

mean, they did -- >> it was -- here is a sort of romanticized burning of the image of columbia, john gave us an early glimpse of sherman's not assuming responsibility for the destruction. next is a photograph of what parts of columbia looked like after the -- sherman went through. and, of course, they proudly have kept the bullet hot side of the state capitol, the same state capital that flew the confederate flag all those years. >> sherman did blast away at the state capital. >> we were talking about this. if you want to get a good insight into what went on in

columbia, there's a book by a marian b. lucas, i think it's published by the university of south carolina press. >> in any case, this historian, from south carolina, said there were three reasons south carolina was burned, wind, whiskey and cotton. it was both sides had something to do with this. he was leaving. >> it was wade hampton. >> who was that, a wealthy south carolina planner. one of the largest owners in the south. reputed to be -- there were

these cotton bails in the middle of the streets of the middle of the city. and wind came up and started the fire going again. as the soldiers are coming into columbia, somebody has the bright idea that there is whiskey here, and people from charleston have sent to columbia, because it's going to be safe. they are dolling out liquor in these big ladles. you can imagine what is happening there. but anyway, the point that lucas make makes that columbia burned to the ground. >> atlanta was about 30%.

>> it's pretty rough. >> a lot of it was the military aspects. it's not like going with the wind. where -- >> i want to go through some of these slides so we can get sherman out of the carolinas we do have the use of african-american troops in the carolinas, they're there, they're in charleston. they're maybe not sherman's men, but they are symbolically an important part of the union conquest of the carolinas. and, of course, sherman gets to virginia and has this famous meeting with lincoln. my favorite part of the meeting is sherman's trying to find out what lincoln wants done if he's captured. he tells the story of an irish

man who had given up whiskey after years of battling the bug. he asks his friends for lemonade. he said, i'll turn my back, if you add some of whisky unbeknownst to myself, that would be acceptable. had to be unbeknownst to lincoln. >> mathematics is done. lee is surrendered. lincoln is dead, and sherman finally sits at a table with johnston. before our questions begin we have to deal with this surrender. sherman decides to give away a little too much, tell us what happened here at this first meeting.

this is the bennett house? >> yeah, that's exactly it. sherman said, and what he noted about sherman and black troops. once you stop fighting, i will come your best friend. the treaty includes things that are helpful to the south the soldiers are given authority to keep their weapons and take them back to the state arsenals. no mention of slavery. there is a mention that the confederates will be able to keep their property. it fits to what sherman said he's going to do, he doesn't like african-americans he keeps

saying, we'll go back to the good old days before the war started. the good old days before the coming of the warsaw a situation where the south dominated the federal government and slavery was accepted. is sherman giving away the store? i think he is. i think he makes a big mistake here. >> and what's the reaction back in washington? >> he sends the terms of the surrender with johnson back to washington, the cabinet meets with president johnson and they reject the terms grant's in washington, they tell grant to go down and take control of sherman's army many fire sherman, gives johnston the same terms he's given lee.

grant doesn't want to alienate sherman, insult him. he goes down and tells sherman these are unacceptable and give them the same they weres i gave lee sherman meets with johnston again and does that. he sold sherman a bill of goods in that first one. johnson is in no position to refuse these new terms. in the meantime, secretary of war stanton has released to the press about sherman's original terms. that many sherman is giving away

the store, and sherman becomes the subject 6 a great deal of criticism. >> he had seven months of great press. that's pretty amazing. >> if anyone has questions, please come to the microphone. >> when he met stanton on the revier reviewing stand stanton came up to shake hands with sherman and sherman turned away and refused to shake hands with him in a famous incident. >> i think we need to go to some questions. >> my name is joyce hall. my great grandmother, when i was a small child, talked about the

union soldiers coming through canton, north carolina, western north carolina. that's not on your route, do you know anything about that? >> well, i can tell you there's been a wonderful article, and i wish i could think of the person's name, talking about even before the gender issue of the march to the sea. but in which there is a constant refrain in a lot of folklore that has passed from generation to generation. about the fact that it was the women of the south who stood up to sherman and they would -- it would be something like an old girlfriend of his, so he didn't want to do anything. none of that istry, and even the stories of the women standing up

to the soldiers simply didn't happen. north carolina was particularly famous because going through north carolina, the soldiers noticed that the pine trees gave off a lot of resin, so you could light them and you would have these flames chuting up into the skies. they would take their buddies, grab him out of the bed and stick him to one of these trees that caught on fire. there was a lot of foolishness like this going on. >> how wide was the carolina army? >> i don't completely agree with jim at some places it was 60 miles. in other cases when they came together it was this sort of thing.

it wasn't quite as wide because of the weather conditions. >> i want to thank you for making easily understood a very interesting campaign. my question that somebody, one of you referred to as a gender war, somebody i've never heard before. i know you said you didn't agree it was a gender war, those proponents for calling it that, what was their reasoning? >> the historians? >> basically, what they do, they go through diaries left by women. a lot of good confederate diaries and letters, and they extrapolate eenvents that these people talked about, and they argue that actually, sherman's march was a battle not of military nature, but it was a battle against the role of women in society. and he argues that as a result

of sherman's march, the men were looked down on because they couldn't stop this. the women became the heroin's, because they stood up to the soldiers. none of that is particularly -- k34r50e9ly accurate. in some cases it was, most cases it wasn't. >> area for further study. >> when i look back at american history, and i hear about general sherman, grant, robert e. lee, stonewall jackson and going to mcarthur and patton. the generals, american generals are -- have very rich personalities. but when you bring it today, they don't stand out as conspicuously as they did in

history. how do you explain that and how does that affect our military? >> you ought to give that a try, professor. >> tough one. >> i'm not sure i understand the that the generals today don't have the same kind of image and the colorful -- >> yes. >> well, the civil war and world war ii, the generals, the two wars that you mentioned the generals were in, were the two biggest wars that this country ever fought. and so they are going to throw to the surface these dominant personalities, but now with brush fire wars and minor wars and nothing anywhere remotely similar to the scale of the civil war or world war ii, you are not going to have these people being thrown to the surface. >> you had iraq that lasted a long time. you had vietnam. >> but iraq, 5,000 or 6,000

american soldiers died in iraq. 750,000 died in the civil war. 500,000 died in world war ii. that's a huge difference and it's going to create a huge difference in image and in the role that these people played in historical -- in a major historical event. >> let's try to get in one more question. >> question for professor. you mentioned that when sherman proposed to march through the south and leave behind his base of supplies that this got grant and lincoln very nervous. however, isn't it true that when grant executed his vicksburg campaign he was going to cut himself off from his base of supplies when he crossed the river, so why wasn't he more sympathetic to what sherman was trying to do? >> very good question. anybody here? >> yes. you know, that is very accurate

because some historians argue that sherman got his idea for breaking away from his supply base, et cetera, from what grant did in vicksburg, when he crossed the river, et cetera. the difficulty with that interpretation, i think, and i have talked to some people who know a heck of a lot more about the battle of vicksburg than i do, and they argue that actually, grant never cut his supply line and the irony is, it was sherman who kept insisting that he do what had to be done to keep that supply line going. it was a very complicated supply line because it did indeed go across the river and come this way but one of the first things that grant wanted to do and did when he came on to mississippi soil was to make sure that his supply line was indeed there. so grant does, and you can see this in letters where he talks about yeah, i cut myself off

from my supplies, et cetera, but i don't think it's to the great degree that sherman did it in the march to the sea. >> sherman's march from atlanta to savannah was 285 miles. from the mississippi river to jackson is only 40 miles. so it's a huge difference in the logistical situation. >> so i always like to end with a quote from the commander in chief, and so let's conclude with the words of thanks that the president sent to sherman after the surrender of savannah. not quite what next which is a pretty rough thing to say after that kind of triumph but demonstration that he was always willing to share credit for great moments in the war. so this is what lincoln wrote to sherman after getting that extraordinary christmas gift of

savannah. when you are -- when you were about leaving atlanta for the atlantic coast, i was anxious if not fearful, but feeling that you were the better judge and remembering that nothing tricked, nothing gained, i did not interfere. now the undertaking being a success, the honor is all yours. it brings those who sat in darkness to see a great light. magnanimous and evocative. you have helped us see light on a number of programs, especially this campaign. you have enlightened us. it's always wonderful to appear with john and jim and if you keep coming, we will keep coming. thank you. [ applause ] >> harold holtzer, james

macpherson, aren't they amazing? we look forward to having you return again and again. if we could, we could just order chinese food and stay for another session. but we all have to go. they will be here staying for a book signing. you can stay a little while, go to the museum store, chat with them, then go to our cafe for dinner. we look forward to seeing you all again. thank you all so much and thank you three wonderful gentlemen. [ applause ] book tv has 48 hours of non-fiction books and authors every weekend. here are some programs to watch for. this weekend, join us for the 22nd annual virginia festival of the book in charlottesville starting saturday at noon

eastern. programs include author bruce hillman, who discusses his book "the man who stalked einstein." how nazi scientist changed the course of history. then saturday evening at 7:00, patricia bell scott, professor of women's studies at the university of georgia, on the fire brand and the first lady, portrait of a friendship. pauline murray, eleanor roosevelt and the struggle for social justice, exploring the relationship between a civil rights activist, co-founder of the national organization for women and first lady eleanor roosevelt. patricia bell scott speaks with author and historian nell painter at roosevelt house in new york city. sunday at 1:00 p.m. eastern, more from the virginia festival of the book. including kelly carlin, george carlin's daughter who talks about her life growing up with the comedian in "a carlin home companion." sunday night, "after words" with

the author of "break through the making of america's first woman president." sthee looks at the advances women are making in the political arena. she is interviewed by the chair and co-founder of cornell's law school avon center for women and justice. >> for a woman to be at the head of the most powerful country in the world when one of our key allies doesn't allow women to drive and our most significant enemy at this time, isis, is literally executing women and girls simply for being women and girls, i think this sends a powerful message from the bully pulpit about what america stands for. >> go to book tv.org for the complete weekend schedule. i am a history buff. i do enjoy seeing the fabric of our country and how things, just how they work and how they're made. >> i love american history tv. the presidency. american artifacts. they're fantastic shows. >> i had no idea they did

history. that's probably something i would really enjoy. >> and with american history tv, it gives you that perspective. >> i'm a c-span fan. >> on lectures in history, emporia state university professor brian craig miller talks about the experience of confederate veterans during reconstruction. he describes how options for support varied widely between the southern states. he also argues that many southern organizations founded to aid veterans instead put their money toward large monuments and pro-confederate propaganda. his class is about 50 minutes. >> on april the 12th of 1865 was actually the real surrender day of the army, the confederate army itself at. the official documents had been

signed. on that day, the confederate soldiers who were left of the army of northern virginia went on this long process of walking up, turning over their regimental flags, stacking their guns, which you can imagine that gun as part of your own identity, that symbol of who you were as a soldier for the last few years of the war, now being turned over to the victors in the united states army, and then traveling home, going away, going back to where you came from. now, john dooley was one of the soldiers who actually did not surrender. he actually went with the confederate government when jeffers jefferson davis evacuated richmond. but along the way as he escaped into the carolinas he was seeing a lot of signs that the war was coming to its horrific conclusion. he wrote in the gullies and along the fences might be seeing the abandoned muskets of the soldiers, the muzzles were choked with mud and the cat

boxes and cartridges lay in sad confusion along the road side. never had my ooigs witnessed a sight like this for here lie unmistakable evidence of a set determination upon the hundreds to fight no more and a shameless indifference as to whether the world knows it or not. the lecture today is going to examine particularly the transition that confederate veterans are going to go through as they go from soldier back to civilian and we are going to look at a few in particular things. we will look at the hardships they faced in terms of that transition. we will look at the limited assistance they found, particularly as they were dealing with chronic pain and wounds, what sort of help could they get in adjusting to those particular newfound disabilities. and then finally, how they sought to actually remember the war itself. the confederates who turned home -- returned home are dealing with the reality of defeat and it's not an easy reality if you will to come to terms with.