review and our role in the world is concerned, it's the fact that i believe deeply in what i say and that i am myself. and i'm going to continue to play that role. if people looking at me say that's a new nixon, then all that i can say is, well, maybe you didn't know the old nixon. ♪ for he's a jolly good fellow which nobody can deny ♪ >> let's hear some cheers for mr. nixon. book tv has 48 hours of non-fiction books and authors every weekend. and here are some programs to watch for. on saturday at 7:15 eastern, george washington university professor kathryn ross discusses her book, lessons in sensorship, which examines free speech issues for college students. and then at 10:00, former civil rights commission chair, mare francis barry examines illegal voting practices in the united states in her book. she's interviewed by spencer

overton, president of the joint center for political and economic studies. >> the donor class through people who are in office and who are running for office are those same people over and over very often, in the state legislatures and the local things and the families and so on, they are the ones who are corrupt. >> right. >> and they're the ones who are corrupting democracy. and the other people are not getting the benefits of it because they're not acting collectively to counteract it and haven't found a way to counteract it, in all of these years. >> on sunday, in depth, live with guest steve forbes, author and publisher of forbes magazine. he'll join us to talk about his life and his latest book, "reviving america," in which he argues for repealing the nation's health care law. other recent tilthsss include money, freedom manifesto, how capitalism will save us and

power, ambition and glory. then join book tv as we take a tour of the shakespeare library in washington, d.c. go to book tv.org for the complete weekend schedule. next, archival coverage of presidential races, including the 1960 democratic primary debate in west virginia, the 1980 texas republican primary debate, the 1984 democratic candidates debate, and a promotional film which aired in new hampshire by the richard nixon campaign. each week until the 2016 election, road to the white house rewind brings you archival coverage of presidential races. next from the 1960 campaign, a west virginia, democratic primary debate between senators john f. kennedy of massachusetts and hubert humphrey of

minnesota. this was only the second televised presidential primary debate in history. it took place at the wchs tv studios in charleston. five weeks before the primary polls showed senator kennedy trailing by 20 points. with west virginia voters expressing concerns about his roman catholic religion. but senator kennedy was able to make the race about religious tolerance and the separation of church and state and he won with 60% of the votes on his way to securing the nomination. he went on to defeat vice president richard nixon in the general election. our coverage of this hour-long debate is courtesy of the john f. kennedy presidential library and museum and west virginia state archives. >> the following political debate between senator john f. kennedy and senator hubert h. humphrey is being presented by wchs tv, the charleston, gazette is participating stations as a

public service. now here's the moderator for the debate, bill ames. >> good evening, west virginia primary election campaign has already been characterized by the unique and the unusual, and that is followed in spectacular and unusual fashion tonight with a face-to-face debate between senator hubert h. humphrey of minnesota, and senator john f. kennedy of massachusetts. for weeks the attention of the nation has been focused on the voters of west virginia and on the efforts of these two men to enlist their support in the presidential balloting next tuesday. in that voting, only registered democrats can cast their ballots for these presidential candidates and the outcome of the voting is not binding on the democratic delegates to the july convention in los angeles. still, it is generally agreed that the results of next week's election in west virginia will be important to the presidential ambitions of the winner and of

the loser. with a desire to crystallize the voters, the issues in the west virginia presidential race, the charleston gazette, wchs tv, and participating stations in and out of the state have brought senators humphrey and kennedy together for this encounter. formal debate will begin the program. a question and answer program will follow the debate. the questions which will be asked, have been sent into the gazette by its readers. the questions will be put to the senators by the two men either side of me. gentlemen, in the debate, you will each have an opportunity for an opening five-minute statement. then you will have five minutes for rebuttal. in the toss of a coin before broadcast time tonight, you won senator kennedy, and then chose

to go second in debate. the order to be followed is the opening, senator humphrey, then an opening by senator kennedy. rebuttal by senator humphrey, and rebuttal by senator kennedy. now the sound of this buzzer will indicate that your time is at an end. and i ask your cooperation in observing the limitations placed upon you. and so senator humphrey, may we begin with your opening five-minute statement. >> thank you, mr. ames and fellow americans. every political campaign should make a truly constructive contribution to american democracy. we should learn and become informed. and i have learned that here in west virginia, that you want a government which never rests in this all-important and vital effort to build a secure and an enduring peace. i have learned that you want a government that cares and acts for the people and understands the needs of the people. and you want a government that

isn't blinded by budget-balancing slogans, but rather is deeply dedicated to a balanced nation in which the pockets of depression and unemployment and poverty are erased. other problems of this wonderful and beautiful virginia are much the same of those of other states and indeed of the world itself. and mind you, these problems are growing and spreading like a cancer, throughout our very land. there's one thing to me that's crystal clear. america needs a democratic victory. and i pledge my whole-hearted and active support to any forward-looking democrat who may win the nomination, and i mean that to my friend john kennedy as well. richard nixon must not be the next president of the united states. we've had too many years of care-taking government that ignores problems and avoids opportunities. too many years of shameful neglect of america's needs at

home and waste and loss of america's prestige abroad. we've been the victim of a no-go, go-slow, not now veto administration. popularity has been substituted for leadership, and mediocrity for principle. slogans offered in place of programs and public relations instead of genuine public service. america, yes, west virginia, deserves a much better deal. now we have one basic problem. a conservative, republican government in washington that is content with standing still in a changing america, and a very rapidly changing world. and talk. talk has been substituted for deeds. little or nothing has been done about distressed industries such as coal, or depressed areas or the problems of technological unemployment and automation, or indeed little or nothing about

the growing demand of education, or the care of or elderly. the republican administration has put on the brakes on the american economy when we should be moving ahead with giant strides. it has complained about growing surpluses of food and fiber, while in many parts of america, yes, in west virginia, children suffer from inadequate diets. shouts inflation as it adds to the cost of living by hiking up interest rates and tightening up the credit. and we pay a terrible price for this indifference. now, these problems in west virginia and the other states of our union, are in fact not the worst that america faces. time has caught up with america. for the past seven years, the soviet union has been eating up the lead that america inherited indeed from past administrations and it's going to be a pitiful

inheritance that our next president will receive from this administration when he sits across the table from the soviet dictator. the next ten years may well decide whether the united states is to be a first-class power, or become a second-class nation. more than a year ago, i sat across the table from mr. kus chof for better than eight hours. i saw him as he is, tough and able, a communist, a bol cheffic, determined to sur pras the united states and he's determined that communism will rule the world and i'm determined that it will not. the next president must arouse this nation to heroic deeds. [ inaudible ] -- of diplomacy, the united nations. he must develop a force for peace, using our food and fiber surplus to feed the hungry, or medical know-how to heal the

sick. the west virginia primary is more than a popularity contest. there are differences between the candidates. but the basic difference has been very accurately assessed by the journalist of temperament and attitude and approach. how you should vote i think depends on your sober assessment of the need of west virginia. that is why with things as they are, you will vote for mr. nixon if you think that only a little change or no change is needed. if you believe that a vigorous, hard-hitting action is required, you know my record, and i hope you'll find me your man. thank you. >> and now senator kennedy, it's your turn for five minutes of an opening statement. >> ladies and gentlemen, i run for the presidency after 18 years in the service of the united states, four years in the navy and 14 years in the

congress. because i believe the presidency is the key office. it is the center of action. and because i believe strongly in my country, and in its destiny. and because i believe the power and influence of the next president and his vitality and force are going to be a great factor in meeting the responsibilities that we're going to face. so i run for the presidency. and because the presidency is the people's office, as no other office is, it is my judgment that any candidate for the presidency should be willing to submit their name, their fortunes, their record and their views to people and primaries all over the united states. west virginia has such a primary. and that is the reason that i am here. i did not have to come. i came of my own free will. there are no delegates involved. a setback here, a defeat, would be a major one, but nevertheless, i came, and i must

say, i am extremely glad i came. i think this is the best experience and the best education that an american political leader can have. whether he serves in the presidency or serves in the senate. many of you who may be watching television in other parts of the country have been seeing a good deal of west virginia through your tv. and i wonder whether you realize what a varied state it is and how unusual is its past and how bright its promise. if there is one quality which this state can be proud of, it is the quality of courage. more men from west virginia lost their lives in the korean war than from any state in the union of its size. more west virginians served in world war ii than for any state of its size. i was in hinton this morning, the home of the navigator who flew with my brother before he was killed. this is a state which has sent men to die in every section of

the world and also here in the state of west virginia, you have to have courage to work in the basic industry of the state, coal mining. eight west virginians die in the coal mines every month. these people are tough and hard. they've lived in the mountains, they're probably more descendants of american soldiers than in any state in the country. george washington said, let me plant a banner in those mountains and i will set men free. this is a state that deserves an opportunity. it deserves recognition from our federal government. last night i was in mcdowell county, that county produces more coal than any county in the world. there are more people on relief in that county than in any county in the country. why should there be 250,000 people living on a subsistence and below subsistence distribution from the federal government who only want to work. 100,000 able-bodied men who want

a job and can't find it, who have spent their lives in the coal mines, who have spent their lives underground, working in 35 or 40 inches, and who want to get a job again, who want to work. that is the problem of west virginia. this state can really do a good deal. i don't think i've seen a more vigorous industrial complex than i've seen along the ohio valley and the cannola river ohr bette farms. the people need a chance and i think this election is as important to west virginia as any state in the country. and i hope the people of this country regard carefully what's happened here, because the problem that west virginia is facing is the problem that all america is going to face. that is the problem of what happens to man when machines take their place? we produce more coal than we did 20 years ago in west virginia, but there are thousands of men who mined in 1940, who can't find a job.

what is happening in the coal industry in the last ten years in west virginia is going to spread all over the country. when a machine takes the job of ten men, where do those ten men go? what happens to their families? they live on unemployment compensation, and that runs out. they live on a subsistence diet distributed by the federal government which is beyond the living standard for any american. and then they wait for a chance and a job. i must say, i'm delighted i came here to west virginia. i think everyone who seeks the office of the presidency should be willing to come. the lesson is hard, but it's important for all americans. >> thank you very much, senator kennedy. you have been shy ten seconds of your five minutes. we move on now to the rebuttal portion of the formal debate. senator humphrey, in accordance with the order established by the flipping of the coin, it is

your turn now to rebut. you will have five minutes for this as well. you may begin, sir. >> thank you, mr. ames. it would be, of course, very undesirable and foolish to attempt to rebut a fine and splendid statement as to the wonderful assets and the great qualities of the state of west virginia and its people, a state that has this marvelous history of freedom and its great contribution to our american system. but i do think there are points that well ought to be emphasized, once having made generalized statements. while it is true that automation and technological improvements have taken jobs, it is equally true that a government that is worthy of the respect of the american people will move into action with private industry and with the local communities to find new jobs, to retrain workers, to provide for new industries, and to diversify the

economy. it is equally true that a government has a responsibility, not the total responsibility, but a responsibility to the total economy of the nation. and when you break that down, you make it into the respective jurisdictions such as our states. now, west virginia's problems, as i indicated in my opening statement, are characteristic of this country. in fact, i might say that i wish that the television camera that has become so much a part of the american scene, would not only focus upon certain areas of west virginia, where there is unemployment and distress, but that it would find its way into parts of new york city and philadelphia and baltimore and boston and yes, minneapolis, and chicago. to look into those slums where people live in metropolitan areas in conditions that are incredible. and yet we have a government that says we have prosperity.

i must say without arguing with my associate from massachusetts, that we have been taught in recent days by our current government, not to care. and i consider this to be immoral. it is absolutely necessary for us to care for one another. the strength of the american economy is best judged by the weakness of any section, or any person, or any part. and wherever there is an area of unemployment or distress or suffering, wherever there's a slum, wherever there are conditions that degrade human kind, it weakens america. and it surely weakens our moral posture in the world. and it takes a terrible toll in terms of the economics of our country. you see, i was trying to emphasize in my opening statement that america needs to be strong. we're facing the toughest competition of our lives. tougher than anyone ever dreamed, and the soviet union and mr. kruch ef is the

gentleman to surpass us. he's competing with us militarily, in economics, education, science, technology, and culture. we have to be prepared to meet that competition and to surpass it. to expand the areas of freedom. now, you can't do that if you ignore problems at home. for example, if we're going to have a foreign policy which is willing to loan economic assistance to every nation in the world under the international development loan fund, which i have supported, it seems to me, we must have a domestic possible which will make possible loans to local communities, to local industries, to americans, for the improvement of economic conditions in our own country. in other words, our ability to maintain our strength abroad will be dependent in a small part upon our capacity to have full production and employment at home with social justice. now, i have some programs that i've mentioned.

i don't think that generalities are accurate or adequate. i think i know what it means to be poor, to be without a job. i've learned something about that in the depression of south dakota. i've seen it in the iron mines of minnesota. i didn't have to go to the coal mines of west virginia for first-hand knowledge. i've seen it. i've tasted it. i don't like it. and therefore, i propose that we have area redevelopment, that we find new uses for coal, and find now outlets for this great source of power that we build generating plants at the mouth of the mine, for example, that we distribute electricity throughout this whole eastern seaboard, which is a great power center of america, the great industrial center, that we develop the great recreational facilities of west virginia, that we make it the people's playground, that we give our young people a chance to work in the forest, out in the public lands and the parks, in a youth conservation program that we spend time and money upon

conversation. all of this is an asset, all of this is an investment in the future. those are my views for the future of this state. >> and now senator kennedy, it is your turn to rebut the statements made by senator humphrey. our thanks to you, senator hemp humphrey. senator kennedy, your time begins right now. >> during my speech, i think that considering the problems of west virginia, i think the people of west virginia are concerned about what can be done, and i think the people of the united states are concerned. this is a problem which goes beyond west virginia. in massachusetts, we lost our textile industry. it was an extremely difficult time. pennsylvania, southern illinois, kentucky, parts of indiana, parts of ohio, have all been hard hit by technological change. the question is, what should we do about it? what should we do about west virginia? i said that there were 250,000

people getting surplus food from the government. i received a letter the other day, april 23rd, from a.f. johnson, west virginia. here's what he gets every month from the government. i'm a man with tb and i get surplus food. i have seven children. this is what i received. five bags of flour, four cans of eggs, three five-pound bags of meal, eight pounds of shortening, four pounds of rice, which we can't use if we don't get it clean, and four powdered milk. we do not get any butter, cheese, or beans. i would challenge anybody on the surplus food situation on what we get, what we don't get. these are the powdered eggs. for a family of four, you get three of these per month. there's 250,000 people in west virginia getting this kind of assistance every month.

it's an inadequate diet. there are a good many children who get their own good meals at school and they bring some of it home to share with their brothers and sisters. it's a national problem, not just a problem for west virginia. it needs the devoted effort of the president, the administration, and the congress. there are some things we ought to do immediately. first place, we ought to send a better diet to these who are dependent upon the government. this is not a satisfactory diet for americans. we should certainly have decent food. we send many of them overseas, we should send them here. secondly, we should add to the unemployment compensation benefit. after 24 weeks, a man goes out, waits for relief, waits for surplus food. give him the 39 weeks that the administration has recommended, make it a part of federal minimum standards. thirdly, i think we ought to do as senator humphrey said, pass the area redevelopment bill, which makes it possible for

small businesses to come in, which makes it possible for communities to clean the water, to attract industry, to retrain workers. all these things can be done if the force of the federal government is put behind them. then i think we can do a good deal more about west virginia and other states, in sending defense contracts to them. do you know that west virginia which had the most serious unemployment in the united states last year, was the lowest in the number of defense contracts it received? west virginia received $20 million in defense contracts from the pentagon, which is spending over $40 billion. my own state of massachusetts received 1 billion 400 million. virginia which borders next to you, received 1 billion, 28 million. i think that the defense department should set aside of every contract a percentage which would go into those areas where there was a high level of unemployment. then i think we ought to begin

to consider longlong-range reco. i think the federal government must recognize that as machines come in and men are thrown out of work, it presents a problem not just to the community. but also to the country. i think every industry in the united states in the next ten years, there should be counsel between labor and management with government representatives so that as machinery comes in, which throws people out of work, we can find new jobs, new training. if the machines come in, in a way that will help people, rather than just provide unemployment. this is the lesson of west virginia, this is why virginia should be a matter of grave concern to us all. because what has happened to these people can happen in every state of the country. west virginia needs help and i think it ought to be on the desk of the next president of the

united states. >> thank you, senator kennedy. well, gentlemen, we have concluded the formal section of the program, the formal debate with opening statements and rebuttals. and we've come to the portion which will be devoted to questions and answers. i'll remind you again that the questions have all been sent to the charleston gazette by its readers and they're been screened by the editorial board of the gazette to avoid repetition and to make a representative selection of the hundreds that were received. the ground rules for answering questions are as follows. the questions will be asked of you alternately and you have two minutes in which to give your answer. at the end of the two minutes, the buzzer with which you've now become familiar, will sound, as it has before, and you will stop. and i must ask your cooperation in observing that. the candidate to whom the question was not directed, some

have been directed to you both, but the candidate to whom the question is not directed, will have the option to comment if he so desires. and the time limit on comment will also be two minutes. we have the first question to take from ned chilton. >> the first question is addressed to both of you gentlemen, and i'll ask mr. humphreys first. should red china be permitted to join the united nations, from charles w. simpson of syracuse, new york. mr. simpson, and mr. chilton, i would not, as a delegate to the united nations representing this country, nor would i, if responsible for the nation's foreign policy, recommend that at least at this time, the admission of red china to the united nations. she has demonstrated the kind of arrogance and impetulence which i believe is anything but worthy of the respect of the consideration of our country, and i further add that the

charter of the united nations requires that the nations that are members thereof should be peace-loving nations. now i know there are some members of the u.n. that surely don't qualify too well for that particular description, but i would add they came in at the time of the united nations inception. and now we have an opportunity to weigh the admission of new members very carefully. now i qualify my statement by saying that you don't take a position in terms of the indefinite future, you take it in terms of the present circumstances. >> thank you, senator humphrey. senator kennedy, this question was directed to both. >> yes, i would agree with senator humphrey. unless they demonstrated a change in their foreign policy. we've seen a belligerent illustration of their policy with india in the past year. unless they demonstrate that they desire to work out the

problems facing them, including disarmament, i would not recognize them. but if they indicated they would, i would begin negotiations to see if it's possible to establish relations. after all, we desire peace and harmony. they were one-quarter of the world. but i do think they have to meet certain standards before recognition should be coming. >> thank you, sir. >> the next question comes to us from dale schuss ler. it's addressed to you, senator kennedy. charlotte cabot asked, in your opinion, are the soviets acting in good faith when they press the case for disarmament? >> not for disarmament. when they say they want complete disarmament, that's impossible, unless they would be willing to agree to the kind of inspection they have disagreed to. in particular, i don't thing they have shown good faith, because they failed to agree to

the efforts we made to the disarmament outer space. which would be possible. as no country dominates outer space. i'm hopeful we could reach agreement on nuclear testing. i think this is an area where it may be too our mutual advantage to agree to the cessation of tests. to agree to a realistic and workable inspection system. if that should be, then i'm hopeful we can proceed on that basis. but i don't think they're working in good faith. >> senator humphrey? >> i would agree there's considerable evidence of what one would call good faith. but i have hopes about the summit conference. particularly if the first summit conference is limited to the phase of disarmament discussion. now at that conference, i think the most that we could expect is to be able to lay down, or get

an agreement upon the ground rules for the present disarmament conference that's under way in geneva. if we could get the ground rules clearly understood, in other words, what they were to do in the conference, that would be a forward step, particularly if there was a firm agreement. secondly, there's one basic problem in the field of the nuclear test suspension with adequate inspection and control.